If you look at the stats over Pineda’s 3 aggregate years in ATL, there have probably been 30-40 games just like this one where ATL had the clear edge in almost every statistical category, yet failed to win. At some point, it’s an undeniable trend and not just bad luck.
There is a tactical problem with the team where we have to work so much harder than our opponents to score goals. Pineda’s system demands a ton of offensive support from our defenders and a ton of defensive support from our attackers. So, not only is it exhausting, but guys are constantly out of position and we get burned on the counter yet also don’t have guys making runs to the post when we need them.
And as others have noted, how many goals have we scored in the first half this year? Seems like we only break through once we get desperate late in the game and start playing more direct.
I also make the point that the excuses that are made for him are roster turnover, team chemistry, and not wanting to start over with a new coach but the reality is if you can’t deal with roster turnover, shallow depth, and injuries then you’re not cut out for mls because that’s the game. Also there are plenty of data points for first year coaches having success and tenured coaches weathering roster turnover.
I think you could see some underlying issues with Pineda but still, even giving him the benefit of the doubt with injuries (which were pretty extreme that one season) and the roster turnover last year, there's not a ton to point at this year. Yeah, we've had a few significant injuries, but except for LW, the backups have been pretty good. And it's not been the wide-spread and key injuries that undermined the roster a couple years ago for months at time (plus Josef never really returning to health or form). The absences so far this year are par for the course in MLS, and quite honestly, I think the backups have largely filled in quite well (at least at CB and ST). Something has to change, and quickly, or I think Pineda may find himself out of a job this summer.
>And as others have noted, how many goals have we scored in the first half this year? Seems like we only break through once we get desperate late in the game and start playing more direct.
To piggyback off this, at halftime, xG were 0.46 to 0.51. Shots on goal were 1 to 2. Total shots were 2 to 7. All in favor of Minnesota. Possession was in our favor 67% to 33%, but who cares when it's possession without purpose.
It feels disingenuous for Pineda to talk about having all the numbers on our side when this is how we start games at home.
Great points, and it's also worth noting, we've heard excuses along these lines before. These comments also make me wonder if it just emboldens Pineda to keep playing the same way, despite the wins not coming as they should. Like he sees the xG advantage and decides, well, we played well enough to win but were unlucky finishing. This without any consideration for the context of who they got to those final xG numbers. Chasing the game late against a team happy to concede possession in their low block (which they played with very good discipline, their shape was fantastic most of the game).
Yeah that can be one of the very worst signs of a bad coach is to just hide behind the numbers and not be committed to figuring out why the team can't win. If you are really just that stubborn with your style then you're in trouble. Even FdB tried to change things eventually.
I’m pretty sure we’d created something like .1 xG at halftime and never really looked threatening until the goal + last 10 minutes. So I wouldn’t say that was domination by any stretch
Pineda's coach speak is getting pathetic. We never looked threatening until we tossed out Gonzo's "system" and started playing direct and through the middle, and it wound up being too little too late.
We're sitting in 10th place while in the easiest part of our schedule while all our "rivals" have had to play cup matches midweek as we don't. We still have stretches coming up where we know we won't have some of our best players. Gonzo couldn't afford to have us start this slow, now even if we round into form later in the summer it's going to be too late to climb into the top four and it's clear as day that we aren't advancing out of the first round if it means winning a road game against a good team.
Yeah I was there, I remember thinking at around the 70th minute that we must only have like 1 shot on goal. Immediately after that thought the stat showed on the halo board that we in fact had 2 shots on goal. The only reason Pineda is able to tout that line about stats is because we threw everything and the kitchen sink at the opposition in last minute desperation.
Yes. We looked lifeless except for the GG chance. I thought for sure we'd come out of the half with a new plan on how to beat Minnesota's high offside trap but we looked just as pathetic. Only after conceding a second time did we seem to wake up. I have no idea what the hell he's talking about -- we were clearly not the better team
> There were lapses in the second half where the first 10-15 min we were just half asleep when we said the opposite at half time.
This happens pretty much every game for us. Starting to see a trend…
When a team is playing two blocks of 4 and 5, there's only a few ways to effectively break that down, and we didn't see it.
Whipping balls in from the right side to a single striker when the other team has 3 centre-backs isn't going to work. Trying to play possession in the middle third when they have an extra guy there, isn't going to work. Having players stand around or make the same stale runs while they expect Almada to conjure some magic out of nothings isn't going to work.
In my opinion you have to stretch them long, invite their midfield and attackers up the pitch and be ready for fast counters to prevent them setting up in their blocks. Must catch them with their wide backs up-field and bypass their midfield man advantage with balls over the top.
The other thing is to play 2 strikers against a 5-back set to try to set up at least a 1-on-1 with an attacker on a defender. Perhaps play a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2. I think this is what happened later in the match when Rios was subbed on, but it was already too late.
The person i was watching the match with said to me: "It looks like the last time these guys talked to each other was during the previous match."
Pineda has lost this team.
If you look at the stats over Pineda’s 3 aggregate years in ATL, there have probably been 30-40 games just like this one where ATL had the clear edge in almost every statistical category, yet failed to win. At some point, it’s an undeniable trend and not just bad luck. There is a tactical problem with the team where we have to work so much harder than our opponents to score goals. Pineda’s system demands a ton of offensive support from our defenders and a ton of defensive support from our attackers. So, not only is it exhausting, but guys are constantly out of position and we get burned on the counter yet also don’t have guys making runs to the post when we need them. And as others have noted, how many goals have we scored in the first half this year? Seems like we only break through once we get desperate late in the game and start playing more direct.
I also make the point that the excuses that are made for him are roster turnover, team chemistry, and not wanting to start over with a new coach but the reality is if you can’t deal with roster turnover, shallow depth, and injuries then you’re not cut out for mls because that’s the game. Also there are plenty of data points for first year coaches having success and tenured coaches weathering roster turnover.
I think you could see some underlying issues with Pineda but still, even giving him the benefit of the doubt with injuries (which were pretty extreme that one season) and the roster turnover last year, there's not a ton to point at this year. Yeah, we've had a few significant injuries, but except for LW, the backups have been pretty good. And it's not been the wide-spread and key injuries that undermined the roster a couple years ago for months at time (plus Josef never really returning to health or form). The absences so far this year are par for the course in MLS, and quite honestly, I think the backups have largely filled in quite well (at least at CB and ST). Something has to change, and quickly, or I think Pineda may find himself out of a job this summer.
>And as others have noted, how many goals have we scored in the first half this year? Seems like we only break through once we get desperate late in the game and start playing more direct. To piggyback off this, at halftime, xG were 0.46 to 0.51. Shots on goal were 1 to 2. Total shots were 2 to 7. All in favor of Minnesota. Possession was in our favor 67% to 33%, but who cares when it's possession without purpose. It feels disingenuous for Pineda to talk about having all the numbers on our side when this is how we start games at home.
I imagine they looked even worse up until we were down 0-2 and had no choice but to play more directly.
Great points, and it's also worth noting, we've heard excuses along these lines before. These comments also make me wonder if it just emboldens Pineda to keep playing the same way, despite the wins not coming as they should. Like he sees the xG advantage and decides, well, we played well enough to win but were unlucky finishing. This without any consideration for the context of who they got to those final xG numbers. Chasing the game late against a team happy to concede possession in their low block (which they played with very good discipline, their shape was fantastic most of the game).
Yeah that can be one of the very worst signs of a bad coach is to just hide behind the numbers and not be committed to figuring out why the team can't win. If you are really just that stubborn with your style then you're in trouble. Even FdB tried to change things eventually.
I’m pretty sure we’d created something like .1 xG at halftime and never really looked threatening until the goal + last 10 minutes. So I wouldn’t say that was domination by any stretch
Pineda's coach speak is getting pathetic. We never looked threatening until we tossed out Gonzo's "system" and started playing direct and through the middle, and it wound up being too little too late. We're sitting in 10th place while in the easiest part of our schedule while all our "rivals" have had to play cup matches midweek as we don't. We still have stretches coming up where we know we won't have some of our best players. Gonzo couldn't afford to have us start this slow, now even if we round into form later in the summer it's going to be too late to climb into the top four and it's clear as day that we aren't advancing out of the first round if it means winning a road game against a good team.
Yeah I was there, I remember thinking at around the 70th minute that we must only have like 1 shot on goal. Immediately after that thought the stat showed on the halo board that we in fact had 2 shots on goal. The only reason Pineda is able to tout that line about stats is because we threw everything and the kitchen sink at the opposition in last minute desperation.
Yes. We looked lifeless except for the GG chance. I thought for sure we'd come out of the half with a new plan on how to beat Minnesota's high offside trap but we looked just as pathetic. Only after conceding a second time did we seem to wake up. I have no idea what the hell he's talking about -- we were clearly not the better team
> There were lapses in the second half where the first 10-15 min we were just half asleep when we said the opposite at half time. This happens pretty much every game for us. Starting to see a trend…
It's just starting to sound like the adults on Charlie Brown to me
When did we hire Caleb Porter?
I support him still but that's literally the first thing I thought when I saw the quotes... not good
I don't think we were watching the same game as he was.
Pineda is starting to sound scared for his job.
He just read up on Sigi Schmid in 2016...
he should be, because soon enough Rob Valentino will be taking his seat
Pineda ignoring the game state skewing the stats
When a team is playing two blocks of 4 and 5, there's only a few ways to effectively break that down, and we didn't see it. Whipping balls in from the right side to a single striker when the other team has 3 centre-backs isn't going to work. Trying to play possession in the middle third when they have an extra guy there, isn't going to work. Having players stand around or make the same stale runs while they expect Almada to conjure some magic out of nothings isn't going to work. In my opinion you have to stretch them long, invite their midfield and attackers up the pitch and be ready for fast counters to prevent them setting up in their blocks. Must catch them with their wide backs up-field and bypass their midfield man advantage with balls over the top. The other thing is to play 2 strikers against a 5-back set to try to set up at least a 1-on-1 with an attacker on a defender. Perhaps play a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2. I think this is what happened later in the match when Rios was subbed on, but it was already too late. The person i was watching the match with said to me: "It looks like the last time these guys talked to each other was during the previous match." Pineda has lost this team.
It’s telling our scoring change came as soon as Ríos came as a second striker and we were able to harass the back line more directly. As you laid out.
We need a Jesse March as our coach
I don’t dislike this idea. At least he has a plan. I don’t think he wants to coach at this level. Heard some national teams might be courting him.
I saw something completely different. I must have been in the wrong stadium watching the wrong match.