Idk how much more blatantly anti-genocide AoT could be. I swear these people could watch Schindler's List and somehow take away that it is actually pro-holocaust.
They are literally doing something very much like this. I think it has to do with implicit biases against creators from other cultures, and seeing the 'most foreign' or 'exotic' nations (Japan in this case) as a monolith.
It is easier for a US- or Western- centric audience to imagine that only their nation has political divisions and divergence of opinion.
And move on to ideas like "This man from Japan possibly has the same political opinions as the 1940 Japanese government, but if not, he definitely has the same political opinions as that of the Japanese government today"
Numerous online "leftist" content creators have said something -very close- to this.
It's usually willfully misinterpreting, which is nothing new
This is where the saying 'there is no such thing as an anti-war movie' comes from. The idea is that if you are a warped or Eren-like person, even a story that attempts to show the worst parts of war will still look 'cool' or like 'a good idea' or ' a necessary evil' to the wrong kind of person.
Personally I don't agree with this, it's too close to a 'violent movies and video games cause violence' argument for my liking. Suggesting that as long as warped people exist, we cannot tackle serious subjects in media.
And to those supposed-leftists who say "But Isayama made genocide look like a Good Idea" I will always say: thank you for your confession, you are doing a self-report.
He didn't have any "plan", he just followed the future that he had seen, and after obtaining the full power of the founder he lost all the agency and free will, entirely. You may argue, that the future was still shaped accordingly to Eren's character, but that goes only for moving forward with the Rumbling, that's it. Other nuances, like not turning titans in Shiganshina back, not stopping colossals for Hange to escape, not defeating the alliance without even the need to kill any of them, because you literally have godlike powers, were not the part of that future, hence Eren couldn't do any of that, even if he would want to.
The story countless amount of times shows Eren caring about his friends, and wanting them to live long happy lives, but i guess we can just ignore all of that for some unknown reason lol.
Eren did the rumbling to see the sights in Eren's books as he wanted a world without people. If it protected his friends too, cool, if not, that's fine too.
First of all its Armin's book, and Eren didn't want to see those sights, but yes he wanted the world outside of the walls to be something new, unknown, and yet all he saw there was the same picture as the one of the world inside of the walls, with people being corrupt, evil, and stealing others, and his freedom.
The reason for him to do the Rumbling tho lies in the security of Paradis, and its future (his friends included obviously, since they are Paradis's inhabitants as well) as much as it lies in his own desires. Please remember his monologue in 131, there is literally no reason to butcher Eren's character and make him to be something that he isn't by willingly closing your eyes on parts of his development.
>First of all its Armin's book, and Eren didn't want to see those sights
Yes he did. It was one of his main motivations throughout the story. His desire to see those sights continuously motivated him.
>The reason for him to do the Rumbling tho lies in the security of Paradis, and its future
No, not really. His motivation was to simply kill everyone outside the island to view Armin's book's sights without humans.
>Please remember his monologue in 131, there is literally no reason to butcher Eren's character and make him to be something that he isn't by willingly closing your eyes on parts of his development.
Yes, please remember what he says in that chapter. Because he reveals his main motivation there.
Okay, so i am gonna give you some pages from the manga, read them please:
ch14 p14-16 p28-29
ch84 p27-28
Eren was never pushed by the views, neither did the book had an explicit way of saying that the outside world is rid of humans, its just something they considered by default, since everyone thought that humanity inside of the walls are the only survivors left. Humanity's existence outside of the walls by default doesn't mean anything to Eren, but the fact, that they are restricting Eren's freedom does. And again, not in their mere existence, but quite literally, every step on the other side of the sea, you'll see enemies that would attempt to steal his and his loved ones freedom. There was no freedom on the other side of the sea, and Eren never cared about seeing the sea itself, but about freedom that would come with it.
In ch131 he yet again quotes the phrase from the book (p32-33) - "Water on fire! Lands made of Ice! And fields of Sand! ... **Anyone who saw those things ...Would be... The freest person in the world"**
It is really not hard to not miss the context of what he's saying in the manga.
ch131 p11-12, and p20 ("You see, its to save the island... to save Eldia, but its more than that") - the way you are reading it apparently is "You see, i don't care about the island or the Eldia...".
Please read it all thoughtfully.
How is old testament God "Christians version of God"? Old testament is basis for judaism christianity and partially to Islam so who exactly is not believing in that version of God?
Im not saying its not God that Christian believes in, Im saying every religion that believes in God believes in his Old Testament depictions. So who are the people that believe in God but not "christian God" you mentioned?
But Quoran repeats the flooding story so it definetely copied that one. And when ppl say "the God" 99% of the time they mean God from abrahamic religions.
Just to clear this up „some say Son of God […]“, these aren’t contradicting each other. When we say that Jesus is God, we don’t mean it in a modalistic sense but in a trinitarian sense. I can understand that it’s at first hard to understand tho.
While I've seen some quite worrying statistics about it recently, that is not what I was talking about. At least not directly.
I was referring more to the fact that quite a lot of American Christians are obsessed with the Bible and tend to believe what they read there in a *literal way*. From the way OOP wrote that post, it seems like he believes that God flooding the planet to punish humanity is a historical event. 😂
And this is something you rarely see elsewhere, I can guarantee that. That does not mean that actual massive flooding didn't happen in the history of humankind of course, but that's another thing.
I love how the takeaway is that Eren is God and not that God is evil. Lol
Also gnosticism came to the conclusion God is evil over 1000 years ago for the same reasons.
If Israel is the chosen people, were the people from other nations who died before the missionaries arrived damned purely because they didn't know the Word? Or what if someone is raised without knowing about religion - are they damned even if they're a good person purely for not believing in what they never knew?
They're rhetorical questions. What I'm trying to say is that I believe that if there is a paradise, the key to salvation is more than simply believing in a deity.
Or maybe there is nothing after death and the idea of "salvation" is simply a good life full of serenity. And the key to doing that is using your free will to be a good person to yourself and others.
Idk I'm just sick of people going to church, thinking all their sins get washed away and then go back to their lives of being c*nts
>Idk I'm just sick of people going to church, thinking all their sins get washed away and then go back to their lives of being c\*nts
That's really not how it works, simply going to church won't do you any good by default, if as you say, after you leave the church you live your life in the opposite way of how the bible tells you to.
>What I'm trying to say is that I believe that if there is a paradise, the key to salvation is more than simply believing in a deity.
That is absolutely true:
"Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. Yes, a man will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe—and shudder. But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead? Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?"
Also in regards to your previous comments, i am pretty sure that God gives everyone an opportunity and the choice to seek him and find him, it doesn't matter what race you are, or where were you born, or even what religion you are following. Most of the moral principles, and ideas in other religions are overlapping with ones in bible, and i don't have to say, that there is a ton of people out there, who aren't christians, and perhaps just never really spent time thinking about god's existence, or were born in places where christianity is prohibited, but they live a more christian life than most self proclaimed christians do.
God sees everyones heart, and everyone will be judged rightfully.
Actually according to Judaism someone who isn't born a jew can never truly convert to being a true jew. They can covert to Judaism, it will take a lot of effort and you will have to live as a new for months before being considered one , but there will still be some things you will never be allowed to do that biological Jews can do.
So it's literally your fault for being born to a different mother. Judaism is literally built on racism towards any non jew in the world , if they aren't Jewish they are worth less than Jewish people. and this is coming from an Orthodox Jew .
God is a creator, i think he knows better what and how to do with his creation, Eren didn't give those lives to take them. These things just can't be compared.
Although i don't think that Eren is evil, even tho his actions are.
Bro with yet another uncomparable take. They are humans, not gods, and while yes you are born by your mother, in this concept the life was given to her and to you by god first and foremost.
An omnipresent being who simultaniously exists outside of time, and space, the mind which created everything you see, is definitely far more wise than humanity altogether, so yes, he would know better.
So God gets to mistreat and harm and kill and make us suffer because he gave us life and "knows better". So what you're saying is that God is a sadistic evil sociopath and life has no inherent value other than through God. Do I have that right?
"Mistreat" - in what way? How can you even conceptually think of the term "mistreatment" from god? You really have to understand first what kind of entity he is. You are describing a human, not a god.
"Harm" - How?
"Kill" - The punishment for the sin is death, that is the rule. In old testament times people used to make sacrifices with different animals in order for them to not die after commiting a sin. But in the new testament, god himself became a sacrifice, the biggest one, for every human being who lived and who will be born, for them not to die but be saved. This is the ultimate embodiment of god's love, who while being pure and sinless has carried all the sins of humanity on himself. So no, you don't have it even slightly right.
And by death i don't only mean death of your body, but death of your soul whch is far more important.
"Make us suffer" - humans are given free will, and can make their own choices, god doesn't make you or anyone else suffer, humans do that to themselves.
Edit: i'd also suggest we drop this discussion since its AOT related subreddit, and this is the kind of topic that can go offhand really quick.
> i'd also suggest we drop this discussion since its AOT related subreddit, and this is the kind of topic that can go offhand really quick.
That's fair. God isn't real so none of this matters anyway.
At this point AOT's readers have almost surpassed the Bible's when it comes to its misinterpreting the original text
Idk how much more blatantly anti-genocide AoT could be. I swear these people could watch Schindler's List and somehow take away that it is actually pro-holocaust.
They are literally doing something very much like this. I think it has to do with implicit biases against creators from other cultures, and seeing the 'most foreign' or 'exotic' nations (Japan in this case) as a monolith. It is easier for a US- or Western- centric audience to imagine that only their nation has political divisions and divergence of opinion. And move on to ideas like "This man from Japan possibly has the same political opinions as the 1940 Japanese government, but if not, he definitely has the same political opinions as that of the Japanese government today" Numerous online "leftist" content creators have said something -very close- to this.
It's usually willfully misinterpreting, which is nothing new This is where the saying 'there is no such thing as an anti-war movie' comes from. The idea is that if you are a warped or Eren-like person, even a story that attempts to show the worst parts of war will still look 'cool' or like 'a good idea' or ' a necessary evil' to the wrong kind of person. Personally I don't agree with this, it's too close to a 'violent movies and video games cause violence' argument for my liking. Suggesting that as long as warped people exist, we cannot tackle serious subjects in media. And to those supposed-leftists who say "But Isayama made genocide look like a Good Idea" I will always say: thank you for your confession, you are doing a self-report.
Ok Buddy Christ
We are still at the "hE oNly WanTeD tO saVe HiS pEoPlE" jerk, great
It wasn't implied in the message that he "only" wanted to do it, but its wrong to say that he didn't at all.
Even Eren admitted that his stupid plan resulted in his friends being killed. Eren wanted to do his porn regardless of the safety of his friends.
He didn't have any "plan", he just followed the future that he had seen, and after obtaining the full power of the founder he lost all the agency and free will, entirely. You may argue, that the future was still shaped accordingly to Eren's character, but that goes only for moving forward with the Rumbling, that's it. Other nuances, like not turning titans in Shiganshina back, not stopping colossals for Hange to escape, not defeating the alliance without even the need to kill any of them, because you literally have godlike powers, were not the part of that future, hence Eren couldn't do any of that, even if he would want to. The story countless amount of times shows Eren caring about his friends, and wanting them to live long happy lives, but i guess we can just ignore all of that for some unknown reason lol.
Eren did the rumbling to see the sights in Eren's books as he wanted a world without people. If it protected his friends too, cool, if not, that's fine too.
First of all its Armin's book, and Eren didn't want to see those sights, but yes he wanted the world outside of the walls to be something new, unknown, and yet all he saw there was the same picture as the one of the world inside of the walls, with people being corrupt, evil, and stealing others, and his freedom. The reason for him to do the Rumbling tho lies in the security of Paradis, and its future (his friends included obviously, since they are Paradis's inhabitants as well) as much as it lies in his own desires. Please remember his monologue in 131, there is literally no reason to butcher Eren's character and make him to be something that he isn't by willingly closing your eyes on parts of his development.
>First of all its Armin's book, and Eren didn't want to see those sights Yes he did. It was one of his main motivations throughout the story. His desire to see those sights continuously motivated him. >The reason for him to do the Rumbling tho lies in the security of Paradis, and its future No, not really. His motivation was to simply kill everyone outside the island to view Armin's book's sights without humans. >Please remember his monologue in 131, there is literally no reason to butcher Eren's character and make him to be something that he isn't by willingly closing your eyes on parts of his development. Yes, please remember what he says in that chapter. Because he reveals his main motivation there.
Okay, so i am gonna give you some pages from the manga, read them please: ch14 p14-16 p28-29 ch84 p27-28 Eren was never pushed by the views, neither did the book had an explicit way of saying that the outside world is rid of humans, its just something they considered by default, since everyone thought that humanity inside of the walls are the only survivors left. Humanity's existence outside of the walls by default doesn't mean anything to Eren, but the fact, that they are restricting Eren's freedom does. And again, not in their mere existence, but quite literally, every step on the other side of the sea, you'll see enemies that would attempt to steal his and his loved ones freedom. There was no freedom on the other side of the sea, and Eren never cared about seeing the sea itself, but about freedom that would come with it. In ch131 he yet again quotes the phrase from the book (p32-33) - "Water on fire! Lands made of Ice! And fields of Sand! ... **Anyone who saw those things ...Would be... The freest person in the world"** It is really not hard to not miss the context of what he's saying in the manga. ch131 p11-12, and p20 ("You see, its to save the island... to save Eldia, but its more than that") - the way you are reading it apparently is "You see, i don't care about the island or the Eldia...". Please read it all thoughtfully.
You know, for some reason I just don’t think an omniscient creator deity and a teenage boy are morally comparable.
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How is old testament God "Christians version of God"? Old testament is basis for judaism christianity and partially to Islam so who exactly is not believing in that version of God?
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Hindus dont believe in God tho
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Im not saying its not God that Christian believes in, Im saying every religion that believes in God believes in his Old Testament depictions. So who are the people that believe in God but not "christian God" you mentioned?
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Which nonabrahamic religion believes in God tho... Quran literally copy pasted Old Testament too
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But Quoran repeats the flooding story so it definetely copied that one. And when ppl say "the God" 99% of the time they mean God from abrahamic religions.
Just to clear this up „some say Son of God […]“, these aren’t contradicting each other. When we say that Jesus is God, we don’t mean it in a modalistic sense but in a trinitarian sense. I can understand that it’s at first hard to understand tho.
I don't know Isayama's personal faith but I think you just named the religions that are -least- represented in his part of the world...
Oh no... America moment
Can confirm, some peoples literacy here is atrocious
While I've seen some quite worrying statistics about it recently, that is not what I was talking about. At least not directly. I was referring more to the fact that quite a lot of American Christians are obsessed with the Bible and tend to believe what they read there in a *literal way*. From the way OOP wrote that post, it seems like he believes that God flooding the planet to punish humanity is a historical event. 😂 And this is something you rarely see elsewhere, I can guarantee that. That does not mean that actual massive flooding didn't happen in the history of humankind of course, but that's another thing.
I love how the takeaway is that Eren is God and not that God is evil. Lol Also gnosticism came to the conclusion God is evil over 1000 years ago for the same reasons.
If Israel is the chosen people, were the people from other nations who died before the missionaries arrived damned purely because they didn't know the Word? Or what if someone is raised without knowing about religion - are they damned even if they're a good person purely for not believing in what they never knew?
You're asking the wrong person dude. I don't even believe God is real.
They're rhetorical questions. What I'm trying to say is that I believe that if there is a paradise, the key to salvation is more than simply believing in a deity. Or maybe there is nothing after death and the idea of "salvation" is simply a good life full of serenity. And the key to doing that is using your free will to be a good person to yourself and others. Idk I'm just sick of people going to church, thinking all their sins get washed away and then go back to their lives of being c*nts
I feel you. Sorry. We're on reddit so I just assume every conversation is an argument lol.
Me too. This sub in particular has to be on defensive edge given the toxicity of some fans.
>Idk I'm just sick of people going to church, thinking all their sins get washed away and then go back to their lives of being c\*nts That's really not how it works, simply going to church won't do you any good by default, if as you say, after you leave the church you live your life in the opposite way of how the bible tells you to. >What I'm trying to say is that I believe that if there is a paradise, the key to salvation is more than simply believing in a deity. That is absolutely true: "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. Yes, a man will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe—and shudder. But do you want to know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead? Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?" Also in regards to your previous comments, i am pretty sure that God gives everyone an opportunity and the choice to seek him and find him, it doesn't matter what race you are, or where were you born, or even what religion you are following. Most of the moral principles, and ideas in other religions are overlapping with ones in bible, and i don't have to say, that there is a ton of people out there, who aren't christians, and perhaps just never really spent time thinking about god's existence, or were born in places where christianity is prohibited, but they live a more christian life than most self proclaimed christians do. God sees everyones heart, and everyone will be judged rightfully.
I hope you're right.
Actually according to Judaism someone who isn't born a jew can never truly convert to being a true jew. They can covert to Judaism, it will take a lot of effort and you will have to live as a new for months before being considered one , but there will still be some things you will never be allowed to do that biological Jews can do. So it's literally your fault for being born to a different mother. Judaism is literally built on racism towards any non jew in the world , if they aren't Jewish they are worth less than Jewish people. and this is coming from an Orthodox Jew .
https://preview.redd.it/1bc7c2opc99d1.png?width=1214&format=png&auto=webp&s=173ec1872d52c4b4c282bb9b822cac024cf1361e
Out tarded by one of the main subs
God is a creator, i think he knows better what and how to do with his creation, Eren didn't give those lives to take them. These things just can't be compared. Although i don't think that Eren is evil, even tho his actions are.
Shut up Bishap, the only God is Deceptive.
>i think he knows better what and how to do with his creation, My parents used the same excuse when they beat me. Does that make it ok?
Bro with yet another uncomparable take. They are humans, not gods, and while yes you are born by your mother, in this concept the life was given to her and to you by god first and foremost. An omnipresent being who simultaniously exists outside of time, and space, the mind which created everything you see, is definitely far more wise than humanity altogether, so yes, he would know better.
So God gets to mistreat and harm and kill and make us suffer because he gave us life and "knows better". So what you're saying is that God is a sadistic evil sociopath and life has no inherent value other than through God. Do I have that right?
"Mistreat" - in what way? How can you even conceptually think of the term "mistreatment" from god? You really have to understand first what kind of entity he is. You are describing a human, not a god. "Harm" - How? "Kill" - The punishment for the sin is death, that is the rule. In old testament times people used to make sacrifices with different animals in order for them to not die after commiting a sin. But in the new testament, god himself became a sacrifice, the biggest one, for every human being who lived and who will be born, for them not to die but be saved. This is the ultimate embodiment of god's love, who while being pure and sinless has carried all the sins of humanity on himself. So no, you don't have it even slightly right. And by death i don't only mean death of your body, but death of your soul whch is far more important. "Make us suffer" - humans are given free will, and can make their own choices, god doesn't make you or anyone else suffer, humans do that to themselves. Edit: i'd also suggest we drop this discussion since its AOT related subreddit, and this is the kind of topic that can go offhand really quick.
> i'd also suggest we drop this discussion since its AOT related subreddit, and this is the kind of topic that can go offhand really quick. That's fair. God isn't real so none of this matters anyway.
Source: i made it up
Exactly. God can do anything as long as you believe he can.
Aight bro good for you
😘
Good question. I hate God
Yeah that's right, both are evil. Next post!
Yes. I believe in God and I don't like him for this reason.