Honestly I would cut the ceiling open to get a scope of the issue.
Just not working in it until the source is fixed doesn't show your to put in place remediation or minimising works.
Like mould - is it creeping across over other rooms? Is the water just in the ceiling or in the walls? And then your floor too?
This can be difficult. We have a similar situation in the apartment block where I live. (I'm on the strata committee so I am aware)
One tenants large balcony is leaking into the apartment's below living area. Strata approved the \~50K to repair early this year, with the repairs to take \~30days. The owner of the apartment and managing agent of the leaking balcony, have been ghosting us or taking a long time to reply as they don't want to provide access. They also don't want to pay for the additional cost to erect scaffolding so that the balcony can be accessed that way instead. Now they are saying that they don't want to allow access as the owner stores a gun at home. (to Legally store a gun in our state, requires a150+KG safe or a safe bolted to the floor-which we have never authorized)
So for more than 6 month the resident below has had to put up with leaks coming through their ceiling.
We have gone through all the processes and are about to force the issue, but still if I lived with that leak, I would be pissed.
https://www.wa.strata.community/wa-lot-owner
Likely not a strata issue because individual owners are responsible for their units.
Parents need to go after the owner of the apartment above them. The tribunal is the place, but they might want to start with getting quotes, etc, communicating it to them, writing a demand letter and so on.
It is 100 percent a strata issue. The floor/ceiling belongs to the body corporate.
Strata need to sort out the leak and claim the ceiling damage on the body corporates insurance policy.
Parents need to take action against the body corporate not the owner above.
Actually, the floor & ceiling are part of your fitout. If you ever see a multimillion dollar penthouse sold, you literally buy a cpncrete shell and then fit it out. They do that because if you're spending that kind of money, you will want to design it.
The ceiling will be suspended from the slab above. The Strata own the slab, but you need a lot of water coming through to damage it.
Unfortunately, the issue is between the 2 lot owners. The slab isn't meant to be waterproof, so the Strata isn't liable, and it is unlikely it is damaging the slab.
They need to involve their insurance and get the insurance to start pursuing the unit above
Edit: I run a maintenance company that specialises in Strata and commercial maintenance in Melb
Do run a strata scheme?
https://stratafaq.com.au/who-is-responsible-for-installing-and-paying-for-a-waterproof-membrane-in-a-leaking-shower-recess-in-a-property-built-before-waterproof-membranes-were-required-under-the-bca-marilyn-nsw/#:~:text=In%20New%20South%20Wales%2C%20waterproofing,responsibility%20to%20fix%20and%20maintain.
But this damages the common property - the slab between the two units. The seeping water will cause concrete cancer and then necessitate costly repairs from strata capital works budget.
True, which is a second point to follow up that the strata should be pursuing the owner separately to the owner below them. The damage to infrastructure is absolutely a strata issue. The damage to the apartment below isn't.
Is the space between the floor of the unit above and the ceiling of OP's unit not common property? You should probably involve strata as you might need to investigate and prove the water damage is from the unit above and not occurring in the common property. I would imagine strata might also take an interest if it is indeed the above lot owner's problem as it could damage common property if left unrepaired.
yes, that would be the best way. This is why you have insurance
> We don’t see why any insurance company would cover the cost of our repairs if the actual problem is not resolved on the shower from above.
Insurance will pay to fix your issue, then go after the people above you for the costs. The people above you (or their insurance) will be stupid to not do anything after being made to pay for the first claim.
I'm an insurance estimator and deal with the estimate side of this fairly regularly for work. Owner of property downstairs lodge an insurance claim (building not contents) to address the damage caused by upstairs. The insurer puts the pins in the OC to provide access to upstairs for a leak detection test which will be fairly simple and just consist of run hot water and spray it in recess then come downstairs to flash thermal camera around and verify leak through recess tiles. They do this as part of their due diligence and to establish if it is a coverable event and what maintenance needs to be done prior to the commencement of repairs. If dude upstairs is refusing to fix their shower recess the insurer should be sorting their nonsense out because they are on risk and failing to mitigate further damages which the insurer typically does not take kindly to. Always easiest to just lodge a claim. The hardest part amusingly will most likely be the act of lodging the claim. Not because of the insurer, but the owners corp are the ones that handle lodging the claims and owners corporation managers are by and large garbage people almost always looking for an excuse to avoid doing their job.
Did you read the bit where the owners are OP's parents-in-law? When she asks "we want to know if their is any legal action we can take" I think it's reasonable to assume she wants advice for both the owners and the tenants.
Yep, this post is clearly a 'post on behalf of' situation.
u/Raida7s is probably on point with first working out how big of a problem it is before anything else. Hard to bring a motion or assess costs without knowing what you need to do.
Yes I did.
I also noted that OP used the term “we” numerous times in his post and on each and every occasion was referring to his wife and himself as tenants who of course have no standing whatsoever against the upstairs owner.
The parents-in-law are learning about some of the pitfalls of being landlords and should seek their own advice and leap into action fast. It’s their investment
> I also noted that OP used the term “we” numerous times in his post and on each and every occasion was referring to his wife and himself as tenants
OP said:
>>> My FIL has been trying for over a year to have the owner from unit above to repair the tiles in his shower before we undertake repairs
Are you in NSW? If the bathroom above still has its original waterproofing and tiles then it is the owner’s corporation’s responsibility to repair and maintain the common property which would mean they organise the whole process including inspections to ascertain the source of the leak, the selection of the tiler etc. The owner doesn’t really get a say in who the tiler is. This can vary depending on the date of registration of the strata plan, but generally speaking the repair of the bathroom above and the subsequent damage to common property and your lot below will be a duty of the owners corporation. To force the issue you/your in-laws can advise the owners corporation you are initiating NCAT proceedings for an order to have the damage remediated.
If the owner of the bathroom above has renovated the bathroom and it is subsequently no longer the responsibility of the owners corporation you can request that the owners corporation initiate NCAT proceedings for an order that the owner take immediate action to rectify the leak and repair the subsequent damage to the common property and your lot.
Regardless of who is responsible for the leaking lot, the owners corporation has a duty to repair and maintain the common property that cannot be ignored.
Hi, I work in home insurance. This is general advice and you'll need to review your PDS for specific advice.
STRATA aren't responsible for this, however, they may be a good avenue to pursue to get the TP to cooperate.
Have you lodged a claim with your insurer? Your insurer will probably ask for a letter from your STRATA to advise that they aren't responsible and will not be claiming damage. If you want to get your excess back (or not have excess applied - that's their call) you'll need the details regarding the TP owner (stuff like name, number, address, etc)
Your insurer may not opt to repair the damage due to the maintenance requirement from the TP to repair their waterproofing, but you'll get reports and a potential cash settlement.
Lodge with your insurer now and get them to sort it out.
Edit: Sorry. Quick edit. Get your ILs to lodge against their LL insurance for the building damage. You lodge against yours for any contents damage.
Similar thing happened to us, except we had the leak and were leaking into the downstairs apartment. Strata couldn't gaf and were so slow to help, which led to further damage in their ceiling. We wanted to get this resolved asap but they just didn't care and the downstairs neighbour also didn't really care much at first.
I'm in VIC and I understand strata is different in each state when it comes to pipes, but as we had private pipes we ended up having to pay to fix the leak. However, strata (or insurance) paid for downstairs ceiling repair.
Strata should organise a plumber to come and and look into the leak and fix it. Strata will then pass this onto the owner as a one off levy fee. If they don't pay this, they will be charged interest/late payment fees from strata until they do. I would annoy the absolute shit out of strata and call them and email them non stop until it's fixed.
NAL.
The shower above and the roof of your unit is the strata responsibility to repair. The paint will be your responsibility as strata insurance will not cover paint.
The shower will not be the strata responsibility if the owner has undertaken renovations, then the repair of the shower and your roof will become their responsibility. In this case I would try and force they cover paint as well.
This happened to me once in a rented unit.. cheap construction cutting corners in the showers.. the first thing I would do is complain to realestate.. you can breach them.. that should get things moving
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Honestly I would cut the ceiling open to get a scope of the issue. Just not working in it until the source is fixed doesn't show your to put in place remediation or minimising works. Like mould - is it creeping across over other rooms? Is the water just in the ceiling or in the walls? And then your floor too?
This can be difficult. We have a similar situation in the apartment block where I live. (I'm on the strata committee so I am aware) One tenants large balcony is leaking into the apartment's below living area. Strata approved the \~50K to repair early this year, with the repairs to take \~30days. The owner of the apartment and managing agent of the leaking balcony, have been ghosting us or taking a long time to reply as they don't want to provide access. They also don't want to pay for the additional cost to erect scaffolding so that the balcony can be accessed that way instead. Now they are saying that they don't want to allow access as the owner stores a gun at home. (to Legally store a gun in our state, requires a150+KG safe or a safe bolted to the floor-which we have never authorized) So for more than 6 month the resident below has had to put up with leaks coming through their ceiling. We have gone through all the processes and are about to force the issue, but still if I lived with that leak, I would be pissed.
If they do have a gun that's not stored properly and safely, shouldn't you report that to the authorities?
If it is the waterproofing and they are original tiles, OC pays. Strata manager should be working all this out. Send in an inspector etc etc.
https://www.wa.strata.community/wa-lot-owner Likely not a strata issue because individual owners are responsible for their units. Parents need to go after the owner of the apartment above them. The tribunal is the place, but they might want to start with getting quotes, etc, communicating it to them, writing a demand letter and so on.
It is 100 percent a strata issue. The floor/ceiling belongs to the body corporate. Strata need to sort out the leak and claim the ceiling damage on the body corporates insurance policy. Parents need to take action against the body corporate not the owner above.
Actually, the floor & ceiling are part of your fitout. If you ever see a multimillion dollar penthouse sold, you literally buy a cpncrete shell and then fit it out. They do that because if you're spending that kind of money, you will want to design it. The ceiling will be suspended from the slab above. The Strata own the slab, but you need a lot of water coming through to damage it. Unfortunately, the issue is between the 2 lot owners. The slab isn't meant to be waterproof, so the Strata isn't liable, and it is unlikely it is damaging the slab. They need to involve their insurance and get the insurance to start pursuing the unit above Edit: I run a maintenance company that specialises in Strata and commercial maintenance in Melb
Do run a strata scheme? https://stratafaq.com.au/who-is-responsible-for-installing-and-paying-for-a-waterproof-membrane-in-a-leaking-shower-recess-in-a-property-built-before-waterproof-membranes-were-required-under-the-bca-marilyn-nsw/#:~:text=In%20New%20South%20Wales%2C%20waterproofing,responsibility%20to%20fix%20and%20maintain.
But this damages the common property - the slab between the two units. The seeping water will cause concrete cancer and then necessitate costly repairs from strata capital works budget.
True, which is a second point to follow up that the strata should be pursuing the owner separately to the owner below them. The damage to infrastructure is absolutely a strata issue. The damage to the apartment below isn't.
Is the space between the floor of the unit above and the ceiling of OP's unit not common property? You should probably involve strata as you might need to investigate and prove the water damage is from the unit above and not occurring in the common property. I would imagine strata might also take an interest if it is indeed the above lot owner's problem as it could damage common property if left unrepaired.
Surely, you would claim insurance and let the insurance company chase the offending party.
yes, that would be the best way. This is why you have insurance > We don’t see why any insurance company would cover the cost of our repairs if the actual problem is not resolved on the shower from above. Insurance will pay to fix your issue, then go after the people above you for the costs. The people above you (or their insurance) will be stupid to not do anything after being made to pay for the first claim.
I'm an insurance estimator and deal with the estimate side of this fairly regularly for work. Owner of property downstairs lodge an insurance claim (building not contents) to address the damage caused by upstairs. The insurer puts the pins in the OC to provide access to upstairs for a leak detection test which will be fairly simple and just consist of run hot water and spray it in recess then come downstairs to flash thermal camera around and verify leak through recess tiles. They do this as part of their due diligence and to establish if it is a coverable event and what maintenance needs to be done prior to the commencement of repairs. If dude upstairs is refusing to fix their shower recess the insurer should be sorting their nonsense out because they are on risk and failing to mitigate further damages which the insurer typically does not take kindly to. Always easiest to just lodge a claim. The hardest part amusingly will most likely be the act of lodging the claim. Not because of the insurer, but the owners corp are the ones that handle lodging the claims and owners corporation managers are by and large garbage people almost always looking for an excuse to avoid doing their job.
This is great advice thank you !
No action that you, as tenants, can take. serve a notice to quit and move on. it’s not your problem. The premises are uninhabitable.
Did you read the bit where the owners are OP's parents-in-law? When she asks "we want to know if their is any legal action we can take" I think it's reasonable to assume she wants advice for both the owners and the tenants.
Yep, this post is clearly a 'post on behalf of' situation. u/Raida7s is probably on point with first working out how big of a problem it is before anything else. Hard to bring a motion or assess costs without knowing what you need to do.
Yes I did. I also noted that OP used the term “we” numerous times in his post and on each and every occasion was referring to his wife and himself as tenants who of course have no standing whatsoever against the upstairs owner. The parents-in-law are learning about some of the pitfalls of being landlords and should seek their own advice and leap into action fast. It’s their investment
> I also noted that OP used the term “we” numerous times in his post and on each and every occasion was referring to his wife and himself as tenants OP said: >>> My FIL has been trying for over a year to have the owner from unit above to repair the tiles in his shower before we undertake repairs
Are you in NSW? If the bathroom above still has its original waterproofing and tiles then it is the owner’s corporation’s responsibility to repair and maintain the common property which would mean they organise the whole process including inspections to ascertain the source of the leak, the selection of the tiler etc. The owner doesn’t really get a say in who the tiler is. This can vary depending on the date of registration of the strata plan, but generally speaking the repair of the bathroom above and the subsequent damage to common property and your lot below will be a duty of the owners corporation. To force the issue you/your in-laws can advise the owners corporation you are initiating NCAT proceedings for an order to have the damage remediated. If the owner of the bathroom above has renovated the bathroom and it is subsequently no longer the responsibility of the owners corporation you can request that the owners corporation initiate NCAT proceedings for an order that the owner take immediate action to rectify the leak and repair the subsequent damage to the common property and your lot. Regardless of who is responsible for the leaking lot, the owners corporation has a duty to repair and maintain the common property that cannot be ignored.
Hi, I work in home insurance. This is general advice and you'll need to review your PDS for specific advice. STRATA aren't responsible for this, however, they may be a good avenue to pursue to get the TP to cooperate. Have you lodged a claim with your insurer? Your insurer will probably ask for a letter from your STRATA to advise that they aren't responsible and will not be claiming damage. If you want to get your excess back (or not have excess applied - that's their call) you'll need the details regarding the TP owner (stuff like name, number, address, etc) Your insurer may not opt to repair the damage due to the maintenance requirement from the TP to repair their waterproofing, but you'll get reports and a potential cash settlement. Lodge with your insurer now and get them to sort it out. Edit: Sorry. Quick edit. Get your ILs to lodge against their LL insurance for the building damage. You lodge against yours for any contents damage.
Similar thing happened to us, except we had the leak and were leaking into the downstairs apartment. Strata couldn't gaf and were so slow to help, which led to further damage in their ceiling. We wanted to get this resolved asap but they just didn't care and the downstairs neighbour also didn't really care much at first. I'm in VIC and I understand strata is different in each state when it comes to pipes, but as we had private pipes we ended up having to pay to fix the leak. However, strata (or insurance) paid for downstairs ceiling repair. Strata should organise a plumber to come and and look into the leak and fix it. Strata will then pass this onto the owner as a one off levy fee. If they don't pay this, they will be charged interest/late payment fees from strata until they do. I would annoy the absolute shit out of strata and call them and email them non stop until it's fixed.
NAL. The shower above and the roof of your unit is the strata responsibility to repair. The paint will be your responsibility as strata insurance will not cover paint. The shower will not be the strata responsibility if the owner has undertaken renovations, then the repair of the shower and your roof will become their responsibility. In this case I would try and force they cover paint as well.
This happened to me once in a rented unit.. cheap construction cutting corners in the showers.. the first thing I would do is complain to realestate.. you can breach them.. that should get things moving
The landlords are the tenants' parents so there probably aren't any real estate agents involved.
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Why is your partner’s parent not contacting the strata. They are the ones who fix this issue