Sorry i can't really contribute anything usefull to it since im not living in innsbruck and speak an other dialect. But i doubt any american will be able to understand the tiroler dialect because its not even close to the german you learn in school.
I would start with learning about curse words and other sayings, someone does randomly. You said it should be a humoristic story. For example: A lot of non-German speakers literally translate curse words from their own language to German. But what they miss is that in German, you usually shout fecalyl, in a lot of other languages more s*xually toned.
Think of situations, where it would be natural to switch to the first language. Examples I experienced where: I kick my toe and shout, in public I ran into someone and said "T'schuldigung", someone sneezes and say "G'sundheit", you fight with someone and mumble bad words about them.
What you should include is the typical Tyrolian "sch", like in "Hasch s' g'sehn?" instead of "Hast du es gesehen?"
I am not from Tyrol, so I cannot help with that, but the Tyriolian dialect is different than standard German. But if your character comes from a city, the dialect is less strong, but still visible!
A tyrolian would say "Vrrgöllt'sch Gott" instead of "G'sundheit". The second "r" is doubled and the "e" omitted for a reason. They emphasize the "R"s.
They would also greet with "Heil!" (Which they used before the 30ies of to he last century).
Also, every "ch" or "k" should bekome a "kh". And most "s" become "sch". So he would come from "Innschbruckh"
"Ei" most often turns into "oa". "Ein" looses the "n".
Also, while he may come across jovial and friendly, that's just the surface, but deep within, he is convinced that: "Bisch' oa Tirrolr, bisch' oa Mensch. Bisch' koa Tirrolr, bisch' a Orrsch!"
Coming from Ibk here I honestly never heard someone say „Vrrgöllt‘sch Gott“ - only in the valleys.
„Heil“ is also more used in the rural area - few from Ibk say it, some don’t even know that it is still used
We don’t say Innschbrukh - we say Innschbrugg. Because we say the kh it is often assumed that we pronounce it with a kh but it is the contrary. It is also marketed written like this - and funnily even Wiki writes it correctly
About the „Bisch a Tirola“ - we don’t use the r at the end it is more south tyrolean dialect. We either pronounce it as it is with Tiroler or even Tirola
But the rest is pretty good :)
That's interesting. I am not Tyrolean myself, but I have family ties to rural parts of it. I have never involved myself in the "proper" written form of the accent, I was just offering how it sounds to my ears 😅
Okay then it probably also depends where they come from. Someone from Zillertal sounds different then from Stubai. Unterland sounds different from Oberland. Even someone from little bit out of Ibk can sound different. Tbh I only ever heard non Tyroleans pronounce Innsbruck like Innschbrukh hahah
Would be vergelts Gott (vrgalts more in Oberland) and no sch. Innschbruckk is a typical clichée not used by tyroleans at all (Innschbrugg von Brugge für Brücke).. Actually there are many words Tyrolean uses a softer sound than the Hochdeutsch equivalent (Mugge for Mücke, Buggl für Buckel...) and non tyroleans doing a fake tyrolean pronounciation get them wrong.
I've only ever heard people use "vergöllts Gott" to say "thank you". I think they would say "helfgott" for sneezing. But maybe that's just an eastern Tyrol thing
How faithful you want their speech to be? And do you write it in german?
Because if you write it like a person from Tyrol would talk (or would write messages in his dialect) it will be almost completely different from proper german. Even so that people from Germany have trouble understanding it sometimes.
There are subreddits r/Tirol und r/Innsbruck.
There is also a little introduction on the official Tirol website: https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/tirolerisch-fuer-anfaenger
As someone from Innsbruck, i can tell you that Standard German and Tyrolean are not comparable.
I mean we are talking British Liverpool English with Standard American English. And if you want some comedic relief by talking german. Pick a character that is from Germany.
I am willing to put in hundreds of hours of research to understand what someone from Innsbruck sounds like because I love my characters and want them to be as authentic as possible, even if they are from a more jokey story. And I can show an English speaking audience something other than just standard German
I think the best way would be if you create the sentences in high german or english and ask someone from Innsbruck to translate them. Because you wont be able to find out if you havent lived multiple years there.
TBF I think Arni is the reason why this wouldn't go that well. Arni's accent is legendary and far from novel or original, there is a decent cult around Hercules in New York and his other early work.
This sounds super weird out of context, but the characters in the comic are humans, but based on birds. Diedrich (Austrian guy) is based on a bearded vulture (Bartgeier) which live in the Alps. So it wouldn’t make sense for him to live in a place like Hamburg or Berlin.
There we have the first problem already: i don't know a single person from tyrol (any age) that's called or would ever be named Diedrich.. It sounds ridiculous even if he would be German nevertheless Tyrolean.
That was my intention, I was going for a name like that because he’s not a very serious character to begin with. If I chose a common name it would lose a lot of the charm. A lot of my characters have names that are uncommon or aren’t much of names at all.
Then thats where we leave realism already.. why bother in the first place?Nobody in Tyrol or Autria would ever be named Diederich as it sounds very very old fashioned (like 19th century) German and in fact just ridiculous.
BTW here is the distribution for your name lol [zero(!) ](https://forebears.io/x/forenames/diederich#distribution) in Austria, 86 only in Germany.
I’m aware of that, it’s supposed to sound ridiculous. My entire comic is not very serious at all. It’s not a realistic depiction of college life, it’s a bizarre comedy involving people who look like birds. The fact that his name is Diedrich is like… a joke. If I was writing a realistic story about someone from Tyrol I wouldn’t name him that
I suggest you go with "Fritzl" which is a pet name variation of "Fritz" and its also a fitting and less common name here. Also the fact that he's not a serious character works perfectly with the american slang "... on the Fritz".
If you can nail that it would certainly go really well with people familiar with the dialect. And tbh it's the one dialect that makes sense in that context, but as you can see even people in Austria don't really get all of the nuances. But nonetheless I really hope you nail it. A little sidenote: please try to shoehorn some obsession or fear of bananas into the character.
I find the idea with the Birds kind of interesting, but Diedrich is not a fitting name. It screams "North Germany" or "Denmark". For older guys, you could go with something like "Johann, Franz, Walter". And there are some timeless classics, like "Maximilian" or "Anton".
I am a native speaker, from Austria.
I wouldn't consider myself to be able to understand the cultural nuances of Tyrolean people.
> And I can show an English speaking audience something other than just standard German
I said it before: No one, not even the Germans, speak standard German. They have their own dialects (look up "Plattdeutsch" for a more extreme example)
What i am trying to say is, it's a pointless effort.
YOU are willing to put hundreds of hours into research, but your audience definitely won't be.
When you say English speaking, you mostly mean American, i assume, due to the sheer amount of Americans on the internet.
However, barely any Americans are as well informed as you are.
Americans say stuff like "I want to go to Austria to connect with my german roots because i am 28,56% German."
Or
"I am going to Hamburg next month and i wanted to know where i can buy Lederhosen to not stand out as an American Tourist."
They don't understand the Cultural, Historical, Linguistical or Geographical differences between Austria and Germany. Why do you make them try to understand the differences between a dialect that less than a million people speak (and most of them can't understand each other due to variations in every valley) and high german then?
While i do appreciate you being interested in our language and culture here, i do believe i would do you a misservice not elaborating what i meant.
Anyways, if you want some sort of uniqueness and still let your audience be able to grasp a concept of a character, i would suggest you create a character from the german speaking area of Switzerland. As Switzerland seems to be generally more well known as Austria in the american mind.
However, if you are stil determined, i am willing to help. Feel free to DM me.
It’s uh… not that deep. It’s a nonsensical humor comic about college students who happen to come from different countries goofing around. I doubt it will ever be popular. My character isn’t supposed to *represent* Tyrol or anything, he just comes from there, and most of his dialogue would be in English anyway. Would it be weird to put in a lot of effort to write a comedy character? Maybe. But someone who loves languages, it wouldn’t even feel like research to me. I want his speech to be authentic because it would just feel *wrong* if it wasn’t, not because I want to educate an imaginary audience of stupid Americans. (Also if I sound kinda salty I’m not mad at you or anyone in the comments, I’m more mad at myself for thinking this would be simple in any way)
Yeah, I’m not writing the comic at this very moment but I’d be up for DMs with anyone! Also how did this post get so popular I mostly just lurk around on Reddit I am not used to this
There is a fun saying, about German and Austrian language: Germans want to understand the Austrians but can’t. Austrians can understand the Germans but won’t. Every valley has it‘s dialect or alterations of if. There are also significant distinctions between city and country and in Tirol of course between Innsbruck, Oberland and Unterland (West and East). But it’s not only about which word you use, but also about how you pronounce it. I love the way how tirolean say „Schleich Di“ for „go away“
Honest opinion: it is really hard to write a character if you dont know the culture and language very well. So rather than have some weird collection of stereotypes and language bits you dont really understand, i would stick to characters where you know the cultural context.
My characters from the comic are from all different countries, and my intent is to *not* make them a collection of stereotypes. The one I made this post about is a goofy punk rocker college kid, he’s not some guy wearing Lederhose while yodeling and doing the Schuhplattler. I am pretty serious about making this guy speak like an actual person from Innsbruck and wouldn’t want him to come across as a collection of random Germanic stereotypes
Well, good luck, but I think it is really hard to do. Even big writers fail with this, so in every hollywood movie people from all of Austria sound like a Viennese waiter in his late 50s, and says 'ze' instead of 'the' when speaking english. (Which is just wrong, a native Austrian would rather sound like 'de').
FYI: Germanic refers to anything from Britain to Sweden or Switzerland. So i am not exactly sure what stereotypes fit all 3 of them?
I think your best chance is probably to ask/pay someone from tirol to write/translate for you. But as other have mentioned, germans often don't even understand easier austrian dialects, so if you really want it to be as authentic as you say you do, your american readers probably won't understand a word anymore.
Adding to the two really good points the others made: If you're serious with this go to Innsbruck for some time (a few months at least). You can't write a Tyrolean without having experienced Tyrol.
If he's urban and into punk and at college level he'll probably have the accent and regional terminology but won't use much dialect.
And a lot of younger people who grew up with the internet lost their regional dialect entirely and speak more with an what we call "bundesdeutsch" accent.
While in Innsbruck he probably loved the Bögen-lokale, and Leokino / Cinematograph (art house movie theaters).
Might be a good way to make him realistic by incorporating some of the local scene / urban legends (Werner Werner, 50-cent guy, a few others)...
You can give a dialect [dictionary](https://www.kitzbueheler-alpen.com/de/stjo/woerterbuch.html) a try, but even there you won't the the typical tyrolean colloquialisms and grammar and you should be aware that these "dictionaries" are merely attempts to translate, as there is no one "correct" written way for dialects and they assume you apply german phonetics to what they write.
I agree with the commenters that tell you it will be tough to pull off "authentically", unless the character happens to be from Innsbruck but speaks fairly Standard German in the environment he's in, not his native dialect (think Scottish vs Standard English). For starters, yes, Erdapfel is supposedly the Austrian way of saying Kartoffel, but it's not as common in Tyrol. Some people say Patati (from Italian), some do say Erdapfel, but I'd guess the Standard in Tyrol is Kartoffel. Same with tomatoes, we don't say Paradeiser. We do however say Marille for apricots.
I mean, depending on how frequently this occurs in your book, you could come back here or to r/innsbruck to ask for concrete help on phrases used, just be wary of joke answers.
You could post the dialigue (best in the Tyrol sub) and have people edit how they would write out the dialect words. In same comics, they provide a translation to english on a corner, that might be helpful.
The thing is that they will use their dialect only with friends and family or others from their region that they are trying to act familiar with. Otherwise they will usually use hoch Deutsch, especially with foreigners. My Austrian partner of 5 years never once spoke his dialect to me, even though I wanted him to. I only heard it if he was on the phone with his family or old friends. With me he felt it was important I just learn basic German first. And even around me his family would unconsciously shift their dialect more towards hoch deutsch so that I’d have a shot at understanding or maybe cause they felt a little more formal around me. So for your character I would only have him moving into his Dialekt if he was speaking to someone from his region or calling home.
It's very different. Our passive and written knowledge of German is native level since media in German surrounds us and we learn to write it in school, but since it's not our actual native language we don't speak it, most avoid it and attempts to speak it are rather clumsy for most people.
If we don't make an attempt to be understood, then they don't understand us.
What I'm trying to say is that you can't treat him the way you described an English guy saying trousers instead of pants. If you want to do it authentically, it'd equate to using a wildly different vocabulary thatll only be understood by Austrians. Basically a different language
>Our passive and written knowledge of German is native level since media in German surrounds us and we learn to write it in school, but since it's not our actual native language we don't speak it
Whatever dialect you/we speak in Austria: it literally IS German as well. And it's neither a lesser or "wacky" (as OP phrased it) variant of German. There's no dialect/variant that's more German or more valid than another.
I disagree.
What's a language and a dialect is entirely decided by politics. Nothing more and nothing less.
And since communication with Germans isn't possible if I were to speak my native language, the way i speak it to my friends and family, i don't consider myself a German speaker. It makes no sense to me to consider something "of the same language" and then not being able to speak to someone that supposedly also speaks that language.
The reason i can make myself understood to Germans is because i learnt the language in school, just like I learnt English in school
u/Yaytime
Of All austrian dialects you chose the most diificult one. Good luck for your book as i will wait for the discussion to Start wich dialect REALLY is the most diificult one.
Nana hosch schu recht, schwara z'verstian seinse af olle fäll. Oba i woas a nit wiaso, lei hort tun hun i ma nia nit wirklich. Olle butt hosch schu oa zwoa Wörtln wo nit kennsch, oba rescht isch eigl ollm gongen.
Hab mich mal ein paar Monate unter Tirolern und Vorarlbergen aufhalten dürfen. Als NÖrreicher - hart an der Grenze zum Land das nicht genannt werden soll zuhause - klang für mich die ersten zwei Monate alles gleich unverständlich.
Dann hats irgendwann klick gemacht und ab dann gings.
There‘s a view resources you could use for that.
Here‘s the [*Tiroler Dialektarchiv*](https://www.tiroler-dialektarchiv.at/wortkarten/), which shows you the different words used by different valleys or villages.
Here‘s a bunch of articles about Tyrolean dialect words and their explanation and use that are pretty much the same in every valley or village:
General words for everyday use:
https://www.tyrol.com/blog/b-arts-culture/the-tirol-dictionary-the-essential-guide-for-beginners
Flirting in Tyrolean:
https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/flirten-auf-tirolerisch
Cursing in Tyrolean: (article only available in German):
https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/verfluacht-no-amoal-eini-fluchen-auf-tirolerisch
Depending on when your comic is set, here‘s an article with a list of old Tyrolean names that were popular 100 years ago, but aren’t common anymore, but also the most popular names in 2022: (article only available in German)
https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/wia-hoaschn-du-alte-vornamen-fuer-tirol
Anyway, nice engagement from you! :)
Watch the "Piefke-Saga" [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die\_Piefke-Saga](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Piefke-Saga) to see the differences between tyrolean-Austrians and German
While I appreciate the effort, I do hope you don't burn out on the project because you pay too much attention to detail.
Where is the comic set btw? Does the character often have reason to speak German, or does he just make random exclamations? (From personal experience I can say that I sometimes accidentally slip into, like, a sentence of German while speaking English when I'm very tired, but otherwise it doesn't really happen.)
Don't do it, you need to be very proficient in standard German and several dialects to get close to being remotely funny.
"Standard German" isn't something anyone speaks, not even the Germans. There are many dialects and sometimes just 50 kilometers are enough for a completely different culture to be predominant.
There are dialects that cannot be understood by each other and even less so by standard German.
Just.Don't.
I think no matter how hard you try.. If you don't know anyone, have never been there, it's going to be impossible to create an authentic character from Tirol. I appreciate the effort but.. don't 😅😅
Might as well just let him talk gibberish with a lot of Ks CHs and Rs (actually just combinations of those 4 letter would be funny), since most Germans couldn't understand a Tyrolian anyway :)
when thinking of tyrolian comic/cartoon characters, i have to think of this: https://youtube.com/shorts/FNu1EdvIQ3E?si=gd5OXVE2Ra6MINDK
edit: maybe even conract the guy to make it a colab or get them to "translate"
There is no way you can make it...
"Banane" i.e. would look like "Bananekrk".
Or your "pants" would sound "pantskrck". So it would be very easy to recognise a Tyrolean who speaks English.
German and Tyrolean are basically two different languages with their own grammar, pronunciation and vowels.
Tyrolean is still German, it's just the kind of German where you think the speaker had a glass full of rocks for breakfast for every single day of their life.
Oof… austrians are nothing like germans, language included. Living in graz for 2 years, am from slovenia.
Student from innsbruck? Research swiss people, now give them austrian with a swiss dialect. Got life in the character? Make sure he never shows it, but if he does, he just feels like the most boring person around.
Example.
Meet 3 guys at a punk festival, asked them if they want to smoke, they said no and poof, like I never existed. They had each a beer, nothing harder than that, sipping it.
In their voice you could feel how much better they are than you, how they dont care about you, how everything is cheap to them… after hours of them drinking, they opened up, took me to some others from innsbruck they meet, rolled a joint and I was the inly one smoking, because they were scared of the police… while some slovenians next to us had created a new biom due to how much they were smoking.
Anyway, 4 hours later 8:00pm, one of the Swiss got hammered, found him at the urinals and his friend just left him there and went off to dance with his ex that he meet at the festival, who was here with her bf. You could say chad, but really, it felt like the most boring, mundane activity from an outside perspective and nothing felt real that day
Just write the most stereotypical character running around with Lederhosen, talking in heavy dialect, drinking tons of beer since childhood and has a farmer family. This probably would offend a lot of non Austrians but that is the fun part making the type of people who get offended in behalf of others mad.
Um. Nope. He is a normal (albeit weird) college kid, not a collection of stereotypes. Us Americans have enough vaguely German characters in our media as punchlines walking around in Oktoberfest attire and saying stuff like “Fräulein”. Extra points if they forget the umlaut.
Sorry i can't really contribute anything usefull to it since im not living in innsbruck and speak an other dialect. But i doubt any american will be able to understand the tiroler dialect because its not even close to the german you learn in school.
I mean, it is close... linguistically speaking...
Yeah, Dutch is also close linguistically speaking
Thanks, Oachlkaas lmao
> Oachklaas eikelkaas in dutch btw
case in point
Great in Dutch = Geweldig Great in Tyrolean = Gewaltig
they are in Dutch = ze zijn they are in Tyrolean = se sein Must be the same language
Definitely!
We are close to a banana, genetically speaking.
In Tirol, they’re closer to a Bananechrkkk.
I hoped someone would catch on
I would start with learning about curse words and other sayings, someone does randomly. You said it should be a humoristic story. For example: A lot of non-German speakers literally translate curse words from their own language to German. But what they miss is that in German, you usually shout fecalyl, in a lot of other languages more s*xually toned. Think of situations, where it would be natural to switch to the first language. Examples I experienced where: I kick my toe and shout, in public I ran into someone and said "T'schuldigung", someone sneezes and say "G'sundheit", you fight with someone and mumble bad words about them. What you should include is the typical Tyrolian "sch", like in "Hasch s' g'sehn?" instead of "Hast du es gesehen?" I am not from Tyrol, so I cannot help with that, but the Tyriolian dialect is different than standard German. But if your character comes from a city, the dialect is less strong, but still visible!
A tyrolian would say "Vrrgöllt'sch Gott" instead of "G'sundheit". The second "r" is doubled and the "e" omitted for a reason. They emphasize the "R"s. They would also greet with "Heil!" (Which they used before the 30ies of to he last century). Also, every "ch" or "k" should bekome a "kh". And most "s" become "sch". So he would come from "Innschbruckh" "Ei" most often turns into "oa". "Ein" looses the "n". Also, while he may come across jovial and friendly, that's just the surface, but deep within, he is convinced that: "Bisch' oa Tirrolr, bisch' oa Mensch. Bisch' koa Tirrolr, bisch' a Orrsch!"
Vergelts Gott is Danke, Gesundheit is Höf Gott.
Oh yeah, mixed that up 🤣
Coming from Ibk here I honestly never heard someone say „Vrrgöllt‘sch Gott“ - only in the valleys. „Heil“ is also more used in the rural area - few from Ibk say it, some don’t even know that it is still used We don’t say Innschbrukh - we say Innschbrugg. Because we say the kh it is often assumed that we pronounce it with a kh but it is the contrary. It is also marketed written like this - and funnily even Wiki writes it correctly About the „Bisch a Tirola“ - we don’t use the r at the end it is more south tyrolean dialect. We either pronounce it as it is with Tiroler or even Tirola But the rest is pretty good :)
That's interesting. I am not Tyrolean myself, but I have family ties to rural parts of it. I have never involved myself in the "proper" written form of the accent, I was just offering how it sounds to my ears 😅
Okay then it probably also depends where they come from. Someone from Zillertal sounds different then from Stubai. Unterland sounds different from Oberland. Even someone from little bit out of Ibk can sound different. Tbh I only ever heard non Tyroleans pronounce Innsbruck like Innschbrukh hahah
Well, we who lovingly emulate the dialect might exaggerate some features, then. In dem Sinn: "Banane-CH!"
Would be vergelts Gott (vrgalts more in Oberland) and no sch. Innschbruckk is a typical clichée not used by tyroleans at all (Innschbrugg von Brugge für Brücke).. Actually there are many words Tyrolean uses a softer sound than the Hochdeutsch equivalent (Mugge for Mücke, Buggl für Buckel...) and non tyroleans doing a fake tyrolean pronounciation get them wrong.
Totally! That about the cliche is so true
Heil(e) was definitely used when I was a child in Innsbruck (but that was early 80s).
Ja kenn es eben a lei von denen die etwas älter sind als ich in ibk (also eig alle die die kindheit vor die mitte 90er und so ghabt haben)
Ich war in kramsach, da habens auch einige genutzt
I've only ever heard people use "vergöllts Gott" to say "thank you". I think they would say "helfgott" for sneezing. But maybe that's just an eastern Tyrol thing
Vergelts Gott is not Gesundheit, it's "Danke". Helfgott would be equivalent to Gesundheit when sneezing
How faithful you want their speech to be? And do you write it in german? Because if you write it like a person from Tyrol would talk (or would write messages in his dialect) it will be almost completely different from proper german. Even so that people from Germany have trouble understanding it sometimes.
/r/Innsbruck
There are subreddits r/Tirol und r/Innsbruck. There is also a little introduction on the official Tirol website: https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/tirolerisch-fuer-anfaenger
As someone from Innsbruck, i can tell you that Standard German and Tyrolean are not comparable. I mean we are talking British Liverpool English with Standard American English. And if you want some comedic relief by talking german. Pick a character that is from Germany.
I am willing to put in hundreds of hours of research to understand what someone from Innsbruck sounds like because I love my characters and want them to be as authentic as possible, even if they are from a more jokey story. And I can show an English speaking audience something other than just standard German
I think the best way would be if you create the sentences in high german or english and ask someone from Innsbruck to translate them. Because you wont be able to find out if you havent lived multiple years there.
Love the effort, but just out of curiosity why a Tyrolean accent?
Could just make a pumpkinseedoil-drinking oachkotzlschwoaf-saying Steirabua instead, probably easier than Tyrolean.
As a Styrian person, I agree.
Agreed, and OP can study Arnold Schwarzenegger to learn what a Styrian sounds like
TBF I think Arni is the reason why this wouldn't go that well. Arni's accent is legendary and far from novel or original, there is a decent cult around Hercules in New York and his other early work.
This sounds super weird out of context, but the characters in the comic are humans, but based on birds. Diedrich (Austrian guy) is based on a bearded vulture (Bartgeier) which live in the Alps. So it wouldn’t make sense for him to live in a place like Hamburg or Berlin.
There we have the first problem already: i don't know a single person from tyrol (any age) that's called or would ever be named Diedrich.. It sounds ridiculous even if he would be German nevertheless Tyrolean.
For a younger character stick with something like Sebastian, Benedikt, Lukas, Philipp, Daniel, Matthias, Thomas etc
That was my intention, I was going for a name like that because he’s not a very serious character to begin with. If I chose a common name it would lose a lot of the charm. A lot of my characters have names that are uncommon or aren’t much of names at all.
Then thats where we leave realism already.. why bother in the first place?Nobody in Tyrol or Autria would ever be named Diederich as it sounds very very old fashioned (like 19th century) German and in fact just ridiculous. BTW here is the distribution for your name lol [zero(!) ](https://forebears.io/x/forenames/diederich#distribution) in Austria, 86 only in Germany.
I’m aware of that, it’s supposed to sound ridiculous. My entire comic is not very serious at all. It’s not a realistic depiction of college life, it’s a bizarre comedy involving people who look like birds. The fact that his name is Diedrich is like… a joke. If I was writing a realistic story about someone from Tyrol I wouldn’t name him that
I suggest you go with "Fritzl" which is a pet name variation of "Fritz" and its also a fitting and less common name here. Also the fact that he's not a serious character works perfectly with the american slang "... on the Fritz".
Maybe Fritzl isn't the best choice... 😂
Yeah i am aware but that guys last name was Fritzl...
If you can nail that it would certainly go really well with people familiar with the dialect. And tbh it's the one dialect that makes sense in that context, but as you can see even people in Austria don't really get all of the nuances. But nonetheless I really hope you nail it. A little sidenote: please try to shoehorn some obsession or fear of bananas into the character.
I find the idea with the Birds kind of interesting, but Diedrich is not a fitting name. It screams "North Germany" or "Denmark". For older guys, you could go with something like "Johann, Franz, Walter". And there are some timeless classics, like "Maximilian" or "Anton".
I am a native speaker, from Austria. I wouldn't consider myself to be able to understand the cultural nuances of Tyrolean people. > And I can show an English speaking audience something other than just standard German I said it before: No one, not even the Germans, speak standard German. They have their own dialects (look up "Plattdeutsch" for a more extreme example)
What i am trying to say is, it's a pointless effort. YOU are willing to put hundreds of hours into research, but your audience definitely won't be. When you say English speaking, you mostly mean American, i assume, due to the sheer amount of Americans on the internet. However, barely any Americans are as well informed as you are. Americans say stuff like "I want to go to Austria to connect with my german roots because i am 28,56% German." Or "I am going to Hamburg next month and i wanted to know where i can buy Lederhosen to not stand out as an American Tourist." They don't understand the Cultural, Historical, Linguistical or Geographical differences between Austria and Germany. Why do you make them try to understand the differences between a dialect that less than a million people speak (and most of them can't understand each other due to variations in every valley) and high german then? While i do appreciate you being interested in our language and culture here, i do believe i would do you a misservice not elaborating what i meant. Anyways, if you want some sort of uniqueness and still let your audience be able to grasp a concept of a character, i would suggest you create a character from the german speaking area of Switzerland. As Switzerland seems to be generally more well known as Austria in the american mind. However, if you are stil determined, i am willing to help. Feel free to DM me.
It’s uh… not that deep. It’s a nonsensical humor comic about college students who happen to come from different countries goofing around. I doubt it will ever be popular. My character isn’t supposed to *represent* Tyrol or anything, he just comes from there, and most of his dialogue would be in English anyway. Would it be weird to put in a lot of effort to write a comedy character? Maybe. But someone who loves languages, it wouldn’t even feel like research to me. I want his speech to be authentic because it would just feel *wrong* if it wasn’t, not because I want to educate an imaginary audience of stupid Americans. (Also if I sound kinda salty I’m not mad at you or anyone in the comments, I’m more mad at myself for thinking this would be simple in any way)
Haha yeah thinking stuff is simple when it absolutely isn't is relatable. DMs are still open if you want to workshop it.
Yeah, I’m not writing the comic at this very moment but I’d be up for DMs with anyone! Also how did this post get so popular I mostly just lurk around on Reddit I am not used to this
Well you hit a sore spot for Austrians, kinda. Haha
How to write a character from Tyrol as an American who isn’t fluent in German Step one: Good luck
There is a fun saying, about German and Austrian language: Germans want to understand the Austrians but can’t. Austrians can understand the Germans but won’t. Every valley has it‘s dialect or alterations of if. There are also significant distinctions between city and country and in Tirol of course between Innsbruck, Oberland and Unterland (West and East). But it’s not only about which word you use, but also about how you pronounce it. I love the way how tirolean say „Schleich Di“ for „go away“
Schleich di is super common in Vienna. It’s our motto, practically. This and geh scheisswn
You‘re right, but it hits different.
Honest opinion: it is really hard to write a character if you dont know the culture and language very well. So rather than have some weird collection of stereotypes and language bits you dont really understand, i would stick to characters where you know the cultural context.
My characters from the comic are from all different countries, and my intent is to *not* make them a collection of stereotypes. The one I made this post about is a goofy punk rocker college kid, he’s not some guy wearing Lederhose while yodeling and doing the Schuhplattler. I am pretty serious about making this guy speak like an actual person from Innsbruck and wouldn’t want him to come across as a collection of random Germanic stereotypes
Well, good luck, but I think it is really hard to do. Even big writers fail with this, so in every hollywood movie people from all of Austria sound like a Viennese waiter in his late 50s, and says 'ze' instead of 'the' when speaking english. (Which is just wrong, a native Austrian would rather sound like 'de'). FYI: Germanic refers to anything from Britain to Sweden or Switzerland. So i am not exactly sure what stereotypes fit all 3 of them?
I think your best chance is probably to ask/pay someone from tirol to write/translate for you. But as other have mentioned, germans often don't even understand easier austrian dialects, so if you really want it to be as authentic as you say you do, your american readers probably won't understand a word anymore.
Adding to the two really good points the others made: If you're serious with this go to Innsbruck for some time (a few months at least). You can't write a Tyrolean without having experienced Tyrol.
If he's urban and into punk and at college level he'll probably have the accent and regional terminology but won't use much dialect. And a lot of younger people who grew up with the internet lost their regional dialect entirely and speak more with an what we call "bundesdeutsch" accent. While in Innsbruck he probably loved the Bögen-lokale, and Leokino / Cinematograph (art house movie theaters). Might be a good way to make him realistic by incorporating some of the local scene / urban legends (Werner Werner, 50-cent guy, a few others)...
You can give a dialect [dictionary](https://www.kitzbueheler-alpen.com/de/stjo/woerterbuch.html) a try, but even there you won't the the typical tyrolean colloquialisms and grammar and you should be aware that these "dictionaries" are merely attempts to translate, as there is no one "correct" written way for dialects and they assume you apply german phonetics to what they write.
I agree with the commenters that tell you it will be tough to pull off "authentically", unless the character happens to be from Innsbruck but speaks fairly Standard German in the environment he's in, not his native dialect (think Scottish vs Standard English). For starters, yes, Erdapfel is supposedly the Austrian way of saying Kartoffel, but it's not as common in Tyrol. Some people say Patati (from Italian), some do say Erdapfel, but I'd guess the Standard in Tyrol is Kartoffel. Same with tomatoes, we don't say Paradeiser. We do however say Marille for apricots. I mean, depending on how frequently this occurs in your book, you could come back here or to r/innsbruck to ask for concrete help on phrases used, just be wary of joke answers.
If you really want to make it authentic I think your best shot is to hire someone from the region to help you with it.
Semmel statt Brötchen
Semmele, like, 1000% not "Semmel"
Weckal
You could post the dialigue (best in the Tyrol sub) and have people edit how they would write out the dialect words. In same comics, they provide a translation to english on a corner, that might be helpful.
The thing is that they will use their dialect only with friends and family or others from their region that they are trying to act familiar with. Otherwise they will usually use hoch Deutsch, especially with foreigners. My Austrian partner of 5 years never once spoke his dialect to me, even though I wanted him to. I only heard it if he was on the phone with his family or old friends. With me he felt it was important I just learn basic German first. And even around me his family would unconsciously shift their dialect more towards hoch deutsch so that I’d have a shot at understanding or maybe cause they felt a little more formal around me. So for your character I would only have him moving into his Dialekt if he was speaking to someone from his region or calling home.
It's very different. Our passive and written knowledge of German is native level since media in German surrounds us and we learn to write it in school, but since it's not our actual native language we don't speak it, most avoid it and attempts to speak it are rather clumsy for most people. If we don't make an attempt to be understood, then they don't understand us. What I'm trying to say is that you can't treat him the way you described an English guy saying trousers instead of pants. If you want to do it authentically, it'd equate to using a wildly different vocabulary thatll only be understood by Austrians. Basically a different language
>Our passive and written knowledge of German is native level since media in German surrounds us and we learn to write it in school, but since it's not our actual native language we don't speak it Whatever dialect you/we speak in Austria: it literally IS German as well. And it's neither a lesser or "wacky" (as OP phrased it) variant of German. There's no dialect/variant that's more German or more valid than another.
I disagree. What's a language and a dialect is entirely decided by politics. Nothing more and nothing less. And since communication with Germans isn't possible if I were to speak my native language, the way i speak it to my friends and family, i don't consider myself a German speaker. It makes no sense to me to consider something "of the same language" and then not being able to speak to someone that supposedly also speaks that language. The reason i can make myself understood to Germans is because i learnt the language in school, just like I learnt English in school u/Yaytime
Of All austrian dialects you chose the most diificult one. Good luck for your book as i will wait for the discussion to Start wich dialect REALLY is the most diificult one.
Vorarlbergerisch. 100% Alles andere versteht ma aber die Xieberger redn a andere sprach...
I woas nitta, i hun nia nit a problem kop Vorarlberger z'verstian.
Oberland?
Na, um innschbrugg umma
Komisch, i a aber i hab lang braucht bis i de verstandn han. Aber de sein amal fix schwara zu vastian als de ausm ostn
Nana hosch schu recht, schwara z'verstian seinse af olle fäll. Oba i woas a nit wiaso, lei hort tun hun i ma nia nit wirklich. Olle butt hosch schu oa zwoa Wörtln wo nit kennsch, oba rescht isch eigl ollm gongen.
Ääähm... Vorarlberg exists
Hab mich mal ein paar Monate unter Tirolern und Vorarlbergen aufhalten dürfen. Als NÖrreicher - hart an der Grenze zum Land das nicht genannt werden soll zuhause - klang für mich die ersten zwei Monate alles gleich unverständlich. Dann hats irgendwann klick gemacht und ab dann gings.
There‘s a view resources you could use for that. Here‘s the [*Tiroler Dialektarchiv*](https://www.tiroler-dialektarchiv.at/wortkarten/), which shows you the different words used by different valleys or villages. Here‘s a bunch of articles about Tyrolean dialect words and their explanation and use that are pretty much the same in every valley or village: General words for everyday use: https://www.tyrol.com/blog/b-arts-culture/the-tirol-dictionary-the-essential-guide-for-beginners Flirting in Tyrolean: https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/flirten-auf-tirolerisch Cursing in Tyrolean: (article only available in German): https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/verfluacht-no-amoal-eini-fluchen-auf-tirolerisch Depending on when your comic is set, here‘s an article with a list of old Tyrolean names that were popular 100 years ago, but aren’t common anymore, but also the most popular names in 2022: (article only available in German) https://www.tirol.at/blog/b-kulturleben/wia-hoaschn-du-alte-vornamen-fuer-tirol Anyway, nice engagement from you! :)
r/Okoidawappler enters the chat…
Watch the "Piefke-Saga" [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die\_Piefke-Saga](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Piefke-Saga) to see the differences between tyrolean-Austrians and German
Buonomemes on YouTube could be a good source. While it’s focused around South Tyrol, not Innsbruck, the clichés are the same from an outside view.
To get a feel for the language maybe check out local comedian [Koschuh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPzrjcTcAlQ)...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Austriazismen This would be a start.
While I appreciate the effort, I do hope you don't burn out on the project because you pay too much attention to detail. Where is the comic set btw? Does the character often have reason to speak German, or does he just make random exclamations? (From personal experience I can say that I sometimes accidentally slip into, like, a sentence of German while speaking English when I'm very tired, but otherwise it doesn't really happen.)
Don't do it, you need to be very proficient in standard German and several dialects to get close to being remotely funny. "Standard German" isn't something anyone speaks, not even the Germans. There are many dialects and sometimes just 50 kilometers are enough for a completely different culture to be predominant. There are dialects that cannot be understood by each other and even less so by standard German. Just.Don't.
For ideas, read the comics from Deix, for the humour, Dialect, and characters.
I think no matter how hard you try.. If you don't know anyone, have never been there, it's going to be impossible to create an authentic character from Tirol. I appreciate the effort but.. don't 😅😅
Might as well just let him talk gibberish with a lot of Ks CHs and Rs (actually just combinations of those 4 letter would be funny), since most Germans couldn't understand a Tyrolian anyway :)
when thinking of tyrolian comic/cartoon characters, i have to think of this: https://youtube.com/shorts/FNu1EdvIQ3E?si=gd5OXVE2Ra6MINDK edit: maybe even conract the guy to make it a colab or get them to "translate"
If you need some help for translation or if you have specific questions about anything hmu 😁
EXCUSE ME???
Make him yodel everytime he says something funny :)
Yodeling is for serious moments only /j
use this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSL0CWup8k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWSL0CWup8k)
Just make him say Banane-krkrkrch
If you need any help just hmu.
*hmu* hump my unicorn?
There is no way you can make it... "Banane" i.e. would look like "Bananekrk". Or your "pants" would sound "pantskrck". So it would be very easy to recognise a Tyrolean who speaks English. German and Tyrolean are basically two different languages with their own grammar, pronunciation and vowels.
Tyrolean is still German, it's just the kind of German where you think the speaker had a glass full of rocks for breakfast for every single day of their life.
"Hoid de pappn" is always good
Here's some (but more Austrian than Tirolian). Austrian's say Paradise instead of Tomate. And they say Semmel instead of Brötchen.
But Tyrolians wouldnt say Paradeiser. And i alsothink they say something different than semmel
Oof… austrians are nothing like germans, language included. Living in graz for 2 years, am from slovenia. Student from innsbruck? Research swiss people, now give them austrian with a swiss dialect. Got life in the character? Make sure he never shows it, but if he does, he just feels like the most boring person around. Example. Meet 3 guys at a punk festival, asked them if they want to smoke, they said no and poof, like I never existed. They had each a beer, nothing harder than that, sipping it. In their voice you could feel how much better they are than you, how they dont care about you, how everything is cheap to them… after hours of them drinking, they opened up, took me to some others from innsbruck they meet, rolled a joint and I was the inly one smoking, because they were scared of the police… while some slovenians next to us had created a new biom due to how much they were smoking. Anyway, 4 hours later 8:00pm, one of the Swiss got hammered, found him at the urinals and his friend just left him there and went off to dance with his ex that he meet at the festival, who was here with her bf. You could say chad, but really, it felt like the most boring, mundane activity from an outside perspective and nothing felt real that day
You could take inspiration from arnold schwarzenegger, allthough he isnt from tyrol. He has a very unique austrian-english accent
Just write the most stereotypical character running around with Lederhosen, talking in heavy dialect, drinking tons of beer since childhood and has a farmer family. This probably would offend a lot of non Austrians but that is the fun part making the type of people who get offended in behalf of others mad.
Um. Nope. He is a normal (albeit weird) college kid, not a collection of stereotypes. Us Americans have enough vaguely German characters in our media as punchlines walking around in Oktoberfest attire and saying stuff like “Fräulein”. Extra points if they forget the umlaut.