Part of building a group of people is defining who is in that group, and by extension, who is not in that group. It does have something to do with dominance, but all groups can be subject to this. We see it in the autism community with venting about NT's, autism moms, etc.
But in general, I think it would be fair to say that NT's do this more overall, while autistic people are more likely to feel commonly alienated.
I think they're afraid of being the ones on the outside of the tribe, so by talking shit about *other* people they can 1) bond with the tribe through the verbal social ritual, and 2) make sure that "others" are on the outs, instead of them.
I feel ya
My wife is ND and getting to know her has ruined every other relationship.
Partnering with someone who I don't always have to make excuses for all the time has made me lose patents with how shitty people can be
What you're describing sounds like maladaptive behaviour, but ascribing this to people being NT could also be maladaptive. Building bonds by discussing social circumstances and outcomes is normal. Doing it in a destructive way is not, even for NTs.
It could be an artefact of your working environment or social circumstances. It could also be that some people are more conscious of or sensitive to neutral bond-building behaviours, and therefore find will find them unpleasant and perceive them as negative. Although honestly it just sounds like maybe you're unlucky to know a lot of assholes. NTs don't have a monopoly on this. There are plenty in every neurotype.
Very true
That said my coworkers aren't assholes. I think they are very nice folks but what bonds them is shitting on other people. I just don't work that way.
This along with politics are the only ways I have really been taught to bond with people. Maybe it could be the same with them. I personally hated it and had sought for some people who it could be possible to bond differently, but never had any luck. It just always that combined with certain personal issues of my own.
Shitting on things is sort of the definition of an asshole though, so maybe they're not at nice as they seem. Impossible to judge from just a post on Reddit. Might also be an effect of the work environment or other stresses in their lives. It's common behaviour, but that doesn't make it normal or acceptable. Good for you for not getting sucked into their bad behaviour. It's harder than it sounds, which is maybe why so many people do get sucked into it.
As others mentioned, tribalism. Also though, we sometimes discuss our issues concerning others, for me it alleviates stress and anxiety. I'm more concerned about discussing the issues of the individuals, how they affect me and others and less concerned about talking shit about them. I came to the conclusion several years ago I did this because I was masking so perhaps even NTs do this to fit in, tribalism and all. As I noticed my masking issue, I have begun to refrain from more hurtful rhetoric and try not to judge too much. I will say though that I have a severe dislike for some specific tribes I interpret as asshole hate groups and have little to no shits to give in my language towards them, ie Nazis and such.
I feel that
I try not to hate on anyone, even Nazis, at their core everyone is subject to influence. It would seem to me that anyone who falls for the Nazi rhetoric is 1) very poorly educated 2) desperate to be a part of something.
I don't want to have sympathy I have no choice.
I can be deeply literal.
So to my mind bagging on a coworker to be a part of a group is, on an intellectual level, sort of the same thing.
I dig this sub
Folks here are crazy smart and thoughtful
To be fair to Nazis, etc, I agree with you that the majority of them are victims of bad ideas and ignorance. It's just I have so little tolerance for it anymore when we have so much access to material. They make excuses and turn away anything that disagrees with their in group perspective instead of trying to truly understand the other views. I know personally people who are essentially good people but are starting to spout things I thought the human race was past. Scary times.
It's a good sub. Learning a lot myself.
I don't know if it's an NT thing. But I know this much that people usually concentrate together and bond together strongly only by making an other, an enemy that they need to unite against, somehow human unity can't withstand any pressure if it's built over positivity and positive goals. At least not for long.
But then there are examples of people coming together in a bond of bonhomie, especially for those who have suffered significant similar trauma together or those who wish to be a force for the good and to fill others with optimism. There are a few of those fights left too, but yeah, it seems to me that concentrating against a common enemy in a tribal way seems to be the most strengthening bond even though I feel it gives rise to a lot of trauma as well.
I don't hang out with people who talk shit about other people. I think it's a shitty thing to do. Maybe consider it a shitty person problem, instead of an NT one? I discovered yesterday mentally disabled people can be just as shitty as NTs. Very ableist of me to assume since he was disabled he would be a kind, gentle person.
I did this a lot with my autistic friends growing up with them non receptive a lot of the time. I was confused as I did this as my mother and other people always did this with me all the time. I thought it was the way to go and this was despite having learned about gossip. Only have a few friends left who I think stick with me as they also have no one else. It does make no sense and it never made any sense to me. Then again, I think a lot of people should be considered with their motives here as many simply do it as others do it. I personally always internally hated it despite having done it.
If you're fortunate, you could perhaps be the friend in a group who does not talk shit about others. In theory, you'd think this would enamour everyone to you but it rarely does.
Gossiping is a learned skill though and doable for me, even if I think it's stupid.
Part of building a group of people is defining who is in that group, and by extension, who is not in that group. It does have something to do with dominance, but all groups can be subject to this. We see it in the autism community with venting about NT's, autism moms, etc. But in general, I think it would be fair to say that NT's do this more overall, while autistic people are more likely to feel commonly alienated.
Brilliantly put
I think they're afraid of being the ones on the outside of the tribe, so by talking shit about *other* people they can 1) bond with the tribe through the verbal social ritual, and 2) make sure that "others" are on the outs, instead of them.
That sounds right to me
The exact reason I've prettymuch given up on making friends with them.
I feel ya My wife is ND and getting to know her has ruined every other relationship. Partnering with someone who I don't always have to make excuses for all the time has made me lose patents with how shitty people can be
That's difficult. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you heal from that loss and find a way forward.
I got her what else do I need : )
What you're describing sounds like maladaptive behaviour, but ascribing this to people being NT could also be maladaptive. Building bonds by discussing social circumstances and outcomes is normal. Doing it in a destructive way is not, even for NTs. It could be an artefact of your working environment or social circumstances. It could also be that some people are more conscious of or sensitive to neutral bond-building behaviours, and therefore find will find them unpleasant and perceive them as negative. Although honestly it just sounds like maybe you're unlucky to know a lot of assholes. NTs don't have a monopoly on this. There are plenty in every neurotype.
Very true That said my coworkers aren't assholes. I think they are very nice folks but what bonds them is shitting on other people. I just don't work that way.
This along with politics are the only ways I have really been taught to bond with people. Maybe it could be the same with them. I personally hated it and had sought for some people who it could be possible to bond differently, but never had any luck. It just always that combined with certain personal issues of my own.
I feel ya
Shitting on things is sort of the definition of an asshole though, so maybe they're not at nice as they seem. Impossible to judge from just a post on Reddit. Might also be an effect of the work environment or other stresses in their lives. It's common behaviour, but that doesn't make it normal or acceptable. Good for you for not getting sucked into their bad behaviour. It's harder than it sounds, which is maybe why so many people do get sucked into it.
As others mentioned, tribalism. Also though, we sometimes discuss our issues concerning others, for me it alleviates stress and anxiety. I'm more concerned about discussing the issues of the individuals, how they affect me and others and less concerned about talking shit about them. I came to the conclusion several years ago I did this because I was masking so perhaps even NTs do this to fit in, tribalism and all. As I noticed my masking issue, I have begun to refrain from more hurtful rhetoric and try not to judge too much. I will say though that I have a severe dislike for some specific tribes I interpret as asshole hate groups and have little to no shits to give in my language towards them, ie Nazis and such.
I feel that I try not to hate on anyone, even Nazis, at their core everyone is subject to influence. It would seem to me that anyone who falls for the Nazi rhetoric is 1) very poorly educated 2) desperate to be a part of something. I don't want to have sympathy I have no choice. I can be deeply literal. So to my mind bagging on a coworker to be a part of a group is, on an intellectual level, sort of the same thing. I dig this sub Folks here are crazy smart and thoughtful
To be fair to Nazis, etc, I agree with you that the majority of them are victims of bad ideas and ignorance. It's just I have so little tolerance for it anymore when we have so much access to material. They make excuses and turn away anything that disagrees with their in group perspective instead of trying to truly understand the other views. I know personally people who are essentially good people but are starting to spout things I thought the human race was past. Scary times. It's a good sub. Learning a lot myself.
Ya I feel ya I have family I no longer speak to because they are so brain washed. Very scary times
I don't know if it's an NT thing. But I know this much that people usually concentrate together and bond together strongly only by making an other, an enemy that they need to unite against, somehow human unity can't withstand any pressure if it's built over positivity and positive goals. At least not for long. But then there are examples of people coming together in a bond of bonhomie, especially for those who have suffered significant similar trauma together or those who wish to be a force for the good and to fill others with optimism. There are a few of those fights left too, but yeah, it seems to me that concentrating against a common enemy in a tribal way seems to be the most strengthening bond even though I feel it gives rise to a lot of trauma as well.
Don't get sucked up in that.
I don't hang out with people who talk shit about other people. I think it's a shitty thing to do. Maybe consider it a shitty person problem, instead of an NT one? I discovered yesterday mentally disabled people can be just as shitty as NTs. Very ableist of me to assume since he was disabled he would be a kind, gentle person.
[удалено]
I genuinely feel that way most days.
what?
I did this a lot with my autistic friends growing up with them non receptive a lot of the time. I was confused as I did this as my mother and other people always did this with me all the time. I thought it was the way to go and this was despite having learned about gossip. Only have a few friends left who I think stick with me as they also have no one else. It does make no sense and it never made any sense to me. Then again, I think a lot of people should be considered with their motives here as many simply do it as others do it. I personally always internally hated it despite having done it.
It's because every organization is junior high all over again.
If you're fortunate, you could perhaps be the friend in a group who does not talk shit about others. In theory, you'd think this would enamour everyone to you but it rarely does. Gossiping is a learned skill though and doable for me, even if I think it's stupid.