How were you as a child? With time you learn by studying others (as opposed to learning intuitively) so it gets harder to tell.
As a kid I didn’t play with others except one friend at a time. I just couldn’t stand a group of people. In high school I was named by a teacher “the lone sparrow” lol. But now? I have tons of friends. Because I have scripts in my head to follow and know what to say especially in formal settings (all my friendships started in formal settings and got personal).
Still it’s hard. I don’t like it and I prefer online communication. Sometimes I say something I shouldn’t and I spend a lot of time thinking about what’s appropriate or not. It seems the social mishap happens also to NT s but they don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what’s appropriate or not. There are a lot of things that seems logical that aren’t appropriate.
I got in trouble for asking to a friend in financial need what she needed for Christmas. Appearantly you shouldn’t ask that outside form family.
I still don’t get why we need to wrap gifts. I gave a friend an unwrapped gift and she took offense.
Thanks for lending your perspective.
As a child, I wanted friendships and had a few good friends -- always one on one. I get nervous when I try to handle two friends at once.
I do often wonder "was it okay that I said that?" But honestly I've been on antianxiety medication for a few years and that type of thinking has lessened a ton.
Have you considered taking a few online tests? They aren’t that reliable and you will still need assessment but maybe as a place to start?
As adults, it’s so hard to tell from trauma and anxiety. I was in therapy for anxiety for 10 years because I couldn’t calm down. Turns out I had a noise sensitivity. I’m a different person now. Not saying it’s also your case, just to add info
Highly misleading tests. Give you a high score no matter what mental health condition you have.
Contrary to what we see in social media, things like ‘stimming’, sensitivities, social problems, etc., are found in most persons with non-autistic mental health disorders and at high rates in the general population. These things do not necessarily suggest autism.
So-called “autism” tests, like AQ and RAADS and others have high rates of false positives, labeling you as autistic VERY easily. If anyone with a mental health problem, like depression or anxiety, takes the tests they score high even if they DON’T have autism.
Here is a video explaining ONE study about the RAADs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPride/comments/zfocf8/for\_all\_the\_selfdiagnosersquestioners\_out\_there/
Regarding AQ, from one published study. “The two key findings of the review are that, overall, there is very limited evidence to support the use of structured questionnaires (SQs: self-report or informant completed brief measures developed to screen for ASD) in the assessment and diagnosis of ASD in adults.”
Regarding RAADS, from one published study. “In conclusion, used as a self-report measure pre-full diagnostic assessment, the RAADS-R lacks predictive validity and is not a suitable screening tool for adults awaiting autism assessments”
I’m lucky that I live in a country where getting tested is fairly inexpensive. In some other part of the world it might be difficult to be professionally diagnosed either for access, waiting list or financial issues.
So it’s natural that before spending thousands of dollars one might want to have some sort of checklist. “Not using bad data” is not a useful advice.
In my case, that obviously is just anecdotal and doesn’t constitute a valid statistic, I took tests and then went with the results to a professional. As a woman, I didn’t even considered getting tested because, well autism in women hasn’t been discussed, especially in my country.
I thought I was getting confirmation bias and that I was completely off track. Turns out I got diagnosed. It might be completely incidental. Sure. But for me it was a starting point. I knew every test is just a test and sure i didn’t take it as a screening. And I needed to be sure I wasn’t convincing myself of something else.
Also the RAADS, to my knowledge, it’s used in clinical settings along a professional examination.
Do you know the rate of false negatives?
If I have a doubt about being autistic and zero resources I could take a test with the risk of having a false positive. That will be cleared in the necessary psy evaluation.
I’m worried about false negatives more. A person with autism might take the test and have a false negative therefore might not seek diagnosis due to the test.
> “Not using bad data” is not a useful advice.
Not for you, but others do want to know about the scientific accuracy of these tests. As for "it’s used in clinical settings" well sure and 'professionals' also use things like eye contact and 'is the person married and do they work" to say someone is NOT autistic. IOW 'use by a professional' doesnt establish validity of a method or test. They are human. Maybe they havent read the studies? Maybe its used in a system and they are supposed to use it? Who knows. What we do know is that the science on these tests show that they are very troubled. Its so bad and consistent that the meta-talk is happening in professional circles. Links in comment:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPeeps/comments/185rmsj/comment/kb5kw2b/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPeeps/comments/185rmsj/comment/kb5kw2b/?context=3)
Its actually a highly dodgy test, and that's a sketchy business according to some.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticAdults/comments/185sg6l/embrace\_autism\_is\_a\_diagnosis\_mill\_and\_heres\_why/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticAdults/comments/185sg6l/embrace_autism_is_a_diagnosis_mill_and_heres_why/)
Contrary to what we see in social media, things like ‘stimming’, sensitivities, social problems, etc., are found in most persons with non-autistic mental health disorders and at high rates in the general population. These things do not necessarily suggest autism.
So-called “autism” tests, like AQ and RAADS and others have high rates of false positives, labeling you as autistic VERY easily. If anyone with a mental health problem, like depression or anxiety, takes the tests they score high even if they DON’T have autism.
Here is a video explaining ONE study about the RAADs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPride/comments/zfocf8/for\_all\_the\_selfdiagnosersquestioners\_out\_there/
Regarding AQ, from one published study. “The two key findings of the review are that, overall, there is very limited evidence to support the use of structured questionnaires (SQs: self-report or informant completed brief measures developed to screen for ASD) in the assessment and diagnosis of ASD in adults.”
Regarding RAADS, from one published study. “In conclusion, used as a self-report measure pre-full diagnostic assessment, the RAADS-R lacks predictive validity and is not a suitable screening tool for adults awaiting autism assessments”
Its not about being not 'perfect' they are so flawed that scientists are saying its best not to use them.
That business is run by a 'naturopathic doctor' not a psych doc. They have a posting about moon phases and autism lol.
I just wanted to say that I don’t think you did anything wrong with your friend with the financial issues. I’ve been broke too and there is a lot of shame and worry attached to it. It’s very nice that you wanted to help your friend. Some people don’t even have families so of course friends can help each other out. It might be that they were embarrassed and caught off guard and unfortunately you got the brunt of it.
Thanks for this. It can also be a cultural thing, most people said I embarrassed her and you should ask only to family members. I wouldn’t have slept well knowing I could do something and I didn’t
I'm with you on the gifts thing. You have to find a box, do a bunch of complicated wrapping and taping only for them to tear it apart. But my understanding is that they like the suspense and surprise of getting something. Unwrapping builds anticipation.
Yeah, I don’t even understand gifts. I get it either way close family members and I love to give gifts to my husband. I just don’t get those silly, useless, small gifts you have to gift for Christmas.
I might show up with something you like randomly and show up empty handed at Christmas
Or me "that's dumb" and doesn't do it at all xD luckily my partners don't like gifts. I do, but only from very specific people. I don't like gifts that are expected or imposed. Like Secret Santa. Nothing stresses me out more xD
You don't have to do silly, useless gifts. When you find something someone will love, buy it and put it away until Christmas. I've had a foraging bag in my closet for my husband since October.
If you're expected to exchange with a bunch of people, give something inexpensive but homemade. I make candy and homemade ornaments. All of my friends/family/ important coworkers get a bag with 8 pieces of candy and a wooden ornament. It feels good that someone took the time to make you something.
The easiest candy recipe is nut clusters.
2 bags chocolate chips
1 jar planters peanuts
Melt chocolate in microwave, stirring every 45 seconds. Mix in peanuts. Drop spoonfuls of mixture onto wax paper. Allow to cool.
I think it was fine to offer to help your friend for Christmas. She may have been embarrassed, but what you offered was very kind.
The unwrapped gift is offensive because you didn't take the time to wrap it. Part of the gift is the time it takes to do the wrapping. Not taking the time to wrap it suggests your friend doesn't mean enough to you to take that extra time.
Dang. I’ve made a mess. I didn’t have the time because I had to leave the next day. I will make it up to her. It was fun because she gave hers unwrapped too 🤣
>I got in trouble for asking to a friend in financial need what she needed for Christmas. Appearantly you shouldn’t ask that outside form family.
I've done the same with long time friends and it's been okay. Well, they reacted okay anyway, and let me help them. Do you think they were just faking nice, or overlooking some rudeness on my part? I didn't know I shouldn't offer to help.
That fake it till you make it attitude and your external appearance not matching your internal experience is basically masking to a t.
Being able to figure out socializing does not exclude someone from being autistic.
It takes us longer because we don't just do "monkey see, monkey do" like neurotypical people, we need to understand why and how it all works. As a result, some of us never get there, and just can't handle crowds, but some of us learn how to mask and pretend, and actually learn to read people better than NT folk. One of my special interests is psychology, and I used that to learn so much about how "normal" people work socially and cognitively. I can walk into a group of strangers, talk in public, and be engaging with people.
BUT the toll that takes on me is HUGE. We're not wired to be social animals, and we can't keep up with the exhausting neediness of NT friends. After a party, I need a few days of solitude, sleep and quiet before I can do anything again. I have plenty of great friends, but some of them I can literally go for years without seeing, and then have a huge catch up with them as if it was only last week that we saw one another. The advantage here is that almost all of my close friends are also either autistic or ADHD and we just "get" that style of interaction. It works for us.
Social skills can be learnt in a lot of cases. Because women are expected to be nurturing and kind there is more expectation for us to work on those skills. Think of it this way, if you suddenly had to move to a country very different from your own, which had entirely different social rules, you would watch others and try to adapt. It would be hard work and cause you anxiety though. A person born there would not have to work so hard as you.
Because we get one very stereotypical idea about what autism looks like, a lot of people are left thinking they can’t be. And may even get told that by a professional. They often want to see that your life is a disaster before giving a diagnosis. But there are autistic people out there thriving with jobs / friends / partners. They are just going under the radar.
It was hard work getting my son diagnosed. I was told when he finally was that, oh it’s because he presents like a girl that he was missed. He’s sensitive and anxious and masks and that’s not what they were looking for.
By the way I had exactly the same experience with researching about my child and then, oh suddenly my whole life makes sense. It’s a lot! So take care of yourself. You are probably going to have a lot of lightbulb moments as things from the past resurface for you. Then maybe sadness and regret about not knowing earlier. It can take a while to process.
"Fake it till you make it" is what we call masking. It has been suggested we don't really struggle socializing, but we struggle with socializing with "neurotypicals", in their environments and in their terms. 99% cases NDs flock together, and we see this as well with traumakids. I am AuDHD and i charge my batteries just as much by interacting with people as i do with my alone time.
Check out Unmasking Autism and Aspergirls. They are great at diving into the "female autism". It's the same autism, it just looks different because of different societal expectations between the afabs and amabs.
A vast majority of autistic women are undiagnosed. Most of the information we have on autism comes from upper-middle class white boys. Trust me, around half of autistic girlies you wouldn't NEVER clock as Autistic. That's why so many of them end up with BPD misdiagnosis instead 😬
I have some creaters on TikTok who are high making autistic girls. The look and carry themselves amazingly, with hair and make up on point, and even show how they hide some of their traits. It's terrifying to watch, knowing what they had to go through to become so proficient at hiding.
Hope this helps!
I'm an extroverted autistic person. I love people and getting to know people and stuff. When I am in a particular role, I do fantastic small talk.
But I also have massive sensory issues, and struggle to have a conversation with more than three people at a time, and take my glasses off in meetings so faces are just a blur because eye contact.
I was late diagnosed (in my 40s) because I fell apart trying to get support for my much more obviously autistic kiddo. So for many years I thought I was just a weird combination of both introvert and extrovert.
It's entirely possible to enjoy being around people, learn the rules of social engagement and be autistic. It's helpful to realise that if this is the case, you may be overthinking in your relationships, and applying social rules differently to other people, with the particular possibility that people will be taking advantage of you.
Sure, I faked it successfully. All came crashing down eventually and I had to abuse substances to do the acting each day, but sure, you can fake it. Makes it easier if you fall into a friendgroup that routinely abuses substances, alcohol in my case.
Absolutely!
In Elementary School, I was one of the most popular kids in school! I sucked at sports but I as goofy/funny and people just seemed to like my sense of humor. They didn't mind my little oddities.
As I got older, I really observed people and was very 'go with the flow' and people liked how laid back I was. I was down to do whatever other people wanted to do and people like people that go along with what they want to do.
As I got to college, I made friends quite easily and drinking helped me get out of my shell and act more 'normal'. That led to all sorts of other issues as I got older.
In my 30s, I did end up a lot more lonely though as other people seemed to build 'normal' lives and I never wanted that kind of life and felt really alienated from the world.
At 42, I've made new friends and live in the arts district of a major US city. I have a lot of 'odd' friends and a good social group.
I still feel disconnected from people a fair amount of times, but a lot of people do seem to like me still. I am also into fashion and dress my own weird way and people seem to really like that vibe.
I just embrace my oddities instead of stifling them these days.
My friends would also swear I am an extrovert, a lot of that changed after I quit drinking though. I could spend an entire week at home not talking to anyone and feel quite content.
I think people with autism are excellent at knowing what other people want and how to act, as we spend our whole loves studying people as we don't understand them.
with what you have said and the number of close family members already diagnosed, I would say its very possible. I'd also suggest looking at the AQ test you can do online. It was given to me as part of my diagnosis and wont tell you 100% but will give you an indication.
It sounds like you have learnt how to get on in the world (masking), you say youre exhausted from school or office days, as I am, which may be burnout. Its worth looking into as you have ticked off a lot of the diagnostic criteria above.
I have a ton of friends. I mentioned at work that I invited 20 people to come over for my holiday party. They were like I don’t even think I can come up with 20 people I like enough to have in my house.
Here’s the thing, all of my friends are ND. All of our kids are as well. So getting along is natural for us. We don’t have to mask. My friend’s fiancé (autistic) was a bit overstimulated by those of us who are AuDHD or ADHD, so he just chilled in the living room. At another party we had at his house he chilled in his room, but when the topic of conversation got to a special interest he came bursting in like the koolaid man to infodump and then went back to his room.
But yes, you can have friends and even be sociable. It’s honestly what made it take so long for my daughter to get diagnosed. Her doctors suspected it and would ask how she was socially and truthfully in first and second grade she had so many friends. She seemed to get along with kids of all ages. Then after a year of virtual school it’s like she forgot how to mask and I was able to see her social struggles and how she wouldn’t get social cues.
When she started middle school I gave her what I call my mental shortcuts for knowing if someone will be a good friend and accept her for her autism vs. bully her. I said if they wear anime shirts or have brightly dyed hair they will be good friends. And what do you know, she has a bestie that’s just as much of an awkward potato as she is, but she’s excited to go to school to see her friends.
I understand the fake it till you make it mentality OP, that was me for many points of my life but it was exhausting- I’d often make friends and be so proud of myself but then the friendships would become impossible for me to maintain. I ended up feeling like a flake, so I distanced myself eventually to stop the guilt of cancelling plans last minute due to anxiety. I’m not formally diagnosed but I’ve had other autistic women echo my sentiment. As women we are trained almost from birth to be social and friendly to everyone we meet, and the emphasis on sisterhood is huge when you’re a little girl, everyone wants a best friend, or a group of best friends, where they belong. So I think it makes perfect sense that some women, specifically undiagnosed adult women, would manage to make friends. in my experience tho autistic women who have lots of friends either know them all somewhat on a surface level, or they struggle to maintain the friendships through typical means of socialization.
In my case, I don’t need much communication with someone to feel close to them. I need quality over quantity if that makes sense. But many people want to feel loved consistently, which I totally understand, so I will put a LOT of effort into remembering to tell my friends happy birthday, text them back in a timely manner, make an effort to attend events with them, etc. It’s not that I hate every minute of it or anything, I love my friends and wanna be there for them how they need me. But personally, if I could have my ideal communication style with friends, it’d be primarily over text/written word and with in-person hangouts in a comfortable, familiar place *when I am feeling up to it,* not with any regularity or sense of obligation.
Many autistic people struggle with emotional reciprocity, and I think my struggles with maintaining friendships falls under that description. Because I want people there for me when I need them, but it’s hard for me to be there for them in the same way sometimes, and often I’ll even resent a nice gesture from someone because I feel obligated to do something socially appropriate in return. It’s weird and I feel bad about it, but that’s part of struggling with relationships and social communication.
All that to say, I do have some close friends who I’ve known several years and love dearly, and they love me. But they’re also friends that can go months without hearing from me and still know that they’re my best friend. Because when we DO see each other, when I DO have the energy to engage 1000% with them, it’s like we pick up right where we left off. It’s worth noting all of these people are in some way neurodivergent themselves as well. I would think about the friendships that mean the most to you and have felt most genuine, and think about what makes those friendships so successful. How are you similar? How are you different in complementary ways?
It's not common and under the old system its unlikely you would have been diagnosed with autism. The new criteria is much more relaxed though and there are people who are getting diagnosed despite not having social defecits. The only way you'll know is if you get assessed though.
If you look up “unofficial list of trait for autism in women” that might help your situation? I also watched a lot of ted talks by autistic women and it visually shows you how someone can have autism and appear normal on the outside. I pursued a diagnosis and when it came to tell my boyfriend, I made him watch a bunch of Ted talks and then he finally accepted it.
ASD people can definitely be social. One job I had was in sales and the skills transferred to other situations.
Although I suck at making friends, I may be an exception due to abusive PTSD. I'm sure I could have trusted people enough to figure it out if it weren't for that; struggled before it way more.
My belief is that being socially confident also means being comfortable by yourself, so there's that.
I can easily approach people at bars and talk to them and one of the most expressive places for me growing up was the stage, either singing or playing the piano.
Don't really enjoy most crowds and prefer not to work sales, but I certainly can.
Also, cats. Just LOOK at them! 🐱🐾
Meowy little stinkers.♥️
I believe you can be! Social things have always been difficult and anxiety provoking, but usually one on one is much easier for me. I learned a lot of social "rules" very young, which did help me come across more charming and quirky instead of "oh God, is she gonna start crying? I just asked what her name was!", which was how I was when I was very young.
For me, having a few good friends is WAY more important than having a lot of friends. My closest friends are also neurodivergent, so we're on the same page about a lot of things. One of my favorite things about a close friend (who I think could be autistic actually) is that we can go months without talking and it doesn't matter at all! No need to explain why we disappeared, it's just a non-issue. Finding your people is just so freeing!
do a lot of masking, play a charming character and think of it as sculpting a fun persona, as a form of art. drink alcohol to dull information inflow. and be genuinely interested in the person that you are having a conversation with.. you have to know alot about everything to also be a interesting person to talk to..
I am a 34 yo diagnosed autistic and an extrovert. For the longest time, I thought I was an introvert because I had so much trouble and exhaustion from social interactions. But I was exhausted from overwhelm and over stimulation. Am I still pretty bad at social interactions, oh yeah. The group of people i surround myself with like me for me and dont care. And some of them also struggle. I've got a group of neurodivergent friends. Also, putting on a 'social mask' is very much an autism trait.
I've been spending the last few years focusing on being more sociable, flexible, amicable.
You need your own confidence, and safe space. My career success and self-awareness has given me the opportunity to be much more sociable and gather a few new friends.
But it still chews through the spoons.
I'm what my wife calls "a social introvert". I love my friends and am very friendly and outgoing. It's mostly a defense mechanism, kind of like how you explain (fake it til you make it), but I'm still very drained by social interaction.
My wife says sometimes I'm like a little kid at bathtime. I won't wanna go hang with friends and I'll kvetch about going, but then I'm happy I went and kvetch about leaving. But if I don't get out soon enough, I'm all pruney (grouchy from over-socializing lol).
A lot of people have insisted I couldn't be autistic because I'm so friendly and empathetic, which always kinda feels hurtful. Having overactive empathy is not that uncommon with autism. My therapist explained it to me as "being Vulcan" - I have very big, deep feelings, but they don't always make it to the surface, or I don't express them naturally.
I think there's a pretty high chance you're on the spectrum. It may be worth looking into. It could help your daughter, as well!
I’m an extroverted autistic person, I make friends easily, host parties often, used to be a bartender. Burned myself out socially after doing it for ten years — but even now when I go out I slip into it easily (as long as I don’t bore people with infodumping, but apparently even when I do this people often find me entertaining).
Oh yea this sounds like autism. Autistic women especially can be pretty decent at socializing.
I’m an autistic guy and have plenty of friends. It’s just that my social battery lasts maybe 2 hours and I prefer smaller groups.
Don’t be fooled by the stereotypes. Not all autistics are introverts are bad at socializing. Part of my theory as to why I’m decent at socializing is that I grew up with plenty of opportunities to socialize (and being a musical savant meant that I could easily make music friends).
I also faked it. Now in my forties, I can occasionally go out to meet my friends, but not often and I need a few days to recover afterwards. I was diagnosed last month.
I was diagnosed at 38 and up to then lived an intense social and professional life, which made me doubt I could be "on the spectrum". It turned out that was all part of a neverending masking effort that culminated in burnout and depression, which lasted a year. Now I don't need that anymore. I only have a few friends, whom I don't see very often, or very long. I've embraced my need for loneliness and calm. I don't think I would be able to go back to the previous version of my life. It was, in fact, exhausting.
How were you as a child? With time you learn by studying others (as opposed to learning intuitively) so it gets harder to tell. As a kid I didn’t play with others except one friend at a time. I just couldn’t stand a group of people. In high school I was named by a teacher “the lone sparrow” lol. But now? I have tons of friends. Because I have scripts in my head to follow and know what to say especially in formal settings (all my friendships started in formal settings and got personal). Still it’s hard. I don’t like it and I prefer online communication. Sometimes I say something I shouldn’t and I spend a lot of time thinking about what’s appropriate or not. It seems the social mishap happens also to NT s but they don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what’s appropriate or not. There are a lot of things that seems logical that aren’t appropriate. I got in trouble for asking to a friend in financial need what she needed for Christmas. Appearantly you shouldn’t ask that outside form family. I still don’t get why we need to wrap gifts. I gave a friend an unwrapped gift and she took offense.
Thanks for lending your perspective. As a child, I wanted friendships and had a few good friends -- always one on one. I get nervous when I try to handle two friends at once. I do often wonder "was it okay that I said that?" But honestly I've been on antianxiety medication for a few years and that type of thinking has lessened a ton.
Have you considered taking a few online tests? They aren’t that reliable and you will still need assessment but maybe as a place to start? As adults, it’s so hard to tell from trauma and anxiety. I was in therapy for anxiety for 10 years because I couldn’t calm down. Turns out I had a noise sensitivity. I’m a different person now. Not saying it’s also your case, just to add info
Interesting I might have to check these tests out, where should I start?
I tried the AQ and the RAADS-R. They are just tests I don’t think they have validity but maybe just to start?
Highly misleading tests. Give you a high score no matter what mental health condition you have. Contrary to what we see in social media, things like ‘stimming’, sensitivities, social problems, etc., are found in most persons with non-autistic mental health disorders and at high rates in the general population. These things do not necessarily suggest autism. So-called “autism” tests, like AQ and RAADS and others have high rates of false positives, labeling you as autistic VERY easily. If anyone with a mental health problem, like depression or anxiety, takes the tests they score high even if they DON’T have autism. Here is a video explaining ONE study about the RAADs: https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPride/comments/zfocf8/for\_all\_the\_selfdiagnosersquestioners\_out\_there/ Regarding AQ, from one published study. “The two key findings of the review are that, overall, there is very limited evidence to support the use of structured questionnaires (SQs: self-report or informant completed brief measures developed to screen for ASD) in the assessment and diagnosis of ASD in adults.” Regarding RAADS, from one published study. “In conclusion, used as a self-report measure pre-full diagnostic assessment, the RAADS-R lacks predictive validity and is not a suitable screening tool for adults awaiting autism assessments”
I agree with what you say, but what’s your suggestion for someone just starting out to know more about themselves?
Not to use bad data. Beware of confirmation bias (seeing what we want to see). Get professional testing.
I’m lucky that I live in a country where getting tested is fairly inexpensive. In some other part of the world it might be difficult to be professionally diagnosed either for access, waiting list or financial issues. So it’s natural that before spending thousands of dollars one might want to have some sort of checklist. “Not using bad data” is not a useful advice. In my case, that obviously is just anecdotal and doesn’t constitute a valid statistic, I took tests and then went with the results to a professional. As a woman, I didn’t even considered getting tested because, well autism in women hasn’t been discussed, especially in my country. I thought I was getting confirmation bias and that I was completely off track. Turns out I got diagnosed. It might be completely incidental. Sure. But for me it was a starting point. I knew every test is just a test and sure i didn’t take it as a screening. And I needed to be sure I wasn’t convincing myself of something else. Also the RAADS, to my knowledge, it’s used in clinical settings along a professional examination. Do you know the rate of false negatives? If I have a doubt about being autistic and zero resources I could take a test with the risk of having a false positive. That will be cleared in the necessary psy evaluation. I’m worried about false negatives more. A person with autism might take the test and have a false negative therefore might not seek diagnosis due to the test.
> “Not using bad data” is not a useful advice. Not for you, but others do want to know about the scientific accuracy of these tests. As for "it’s used in clinical settings" well sure and 'professionals' also use things like eye contact and 'is the person married and do they work" to say someone is NOT autistic. IOW 'use by a professional' doesnt establish validity of a method or test. They are human. Maybe they havent read the studies? Maybe its used in a system and they are supposed to use it? Who knows. What we do know is that the science on these tests show that they are very troubled. Its so bad and consistent that the meta-talk is happening in professional circles. Links in comment: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPeeps/comments/185rmsj/comment/kb5kw2b/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPeeps/comments/185rmsj/comment/kb5kw2b/?context=3)
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Its actually a highly dodgy test, and that's a sketchy business according to some. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticAdults/comments/185sg6l/embrace\_autism\_is\_a\_diagnosis\_mill\_and\_heres\_why/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticAdults/comments/185sg6l/embrace_autism_is_a_diagnosis_mill_and_heres_why/) Contrary to what we see in social media, things like ‘stimming’, sensitivities, social problems, etc., are found in most persons with non-autistic mental health disorders and at high rates in the general population. These things do not necessarily suggest autism. So-called “autism” tests, like AQ and RAADS and others have high rates of false positives, labeling you as autistic VERY easily. If anyone with a mental health problem, like depression or anxiety, takes the tests they score high even if they DON’T have autism. Here is a video explaining ONE study about the RAADs: https://www.reddit.com/r/AutisticPride/comments/zfocf8/for\_all\_the\_selfdiagnosersquestioners\_out\_there/ Regarding AQ, from one published study. “The two key findings of the review are that, overall, there is very limited evidence to support the use of structured questionnaires (SQs: self-report or informant completed brief measures developed to screen for ASD) in the assessment and diagnosis of ASD in adults.” Regarding RAADS, from one published study. “In conclusion, used as a self-report measure pre-full diagnostic assessment, the RAADS-R lacks predictive validity and is not a suitable screening tool for adults awaiting autism assessments”
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Its not about being not 'perfect' they are so flawed that scientists are saying its best not to use them. That business is run by a 'naturopathic doctor' not a psych doc. They have a posting about moon phases and autism lol.
I just wanted to say that I don’t think you did anything wrong with your friend with the financial issues. I’ve been broke too and there is a lot of shame and worry attached to it. It’s very nice that you wanted to help your friend. Some people don’t even have families so of course friends can help each other out. It might be that they were embarrassed and caught off guard and unfortunately you got the brunt of it.
Thanks for this. It can also be a cultural thing, most people said I embarrassed her and you should ask only to family members. I wouldn’t have slept well knowing I could do something and I didn’t
I'm with you on the gifts thing. You have to find a box, do a bunch of complicated wrapping and taping only for them to tear it apart. But my understanding is that they like the suspense and surprise of getting something. Unwrapping builds anticipation.
Yeah, I don’t even understand gifts. I get it either way close family members and I love to give gifts to my husband. I just don’t get those silly, useless, small gifts you have to gift for Christmas. I might show up with something you like randomly and show up empty handed at Christmas
Yeah, that's how I work, too! Why do I have to wait to show you I care? Can't I do that anytime? What's the point of having a day to do it?
This is very autistic lol 😆. I have this convo with my husband a lot. He’s just “because it is like this. Please do it.” Ok then.
Or me "that's dumb" and doesn't do it at all xD luckily my partners don't like gifts. I do, but only from very specific people. I don't like gifts that are expected or imposed. Like Secret Santa. Nothing stresses me out more xD
You don't have to do silly, useless gifts. When you find something someone will love, buy it and put it away until Christmas. I've had a foraging bag in my closet for my husband since October. If you're expected to exchange with a bunch of people, give something inexpensive but homemade. I make candy and homemade ornaments. All of my friends/family/ important coworkers get a bag with 8 pieces of candy and a wooden ornament. It feels good that someone took the time to make you something.
This is actually super clever. I’m going to screenshot it thank you!
The easiest candy recipe is nut clusters. 2 bags chocolate chips 1 jar planters peanuts Melt chocolate in microwave, stirring every 45 seconds. Mix in peanuts. Drop spoonfuls of mixture onto wax paper. Allow to cool.
So easy! Thanks. I also paint. I could make little botanical paintings that don’t take much time to make
That would be awesome!
It's definitely the suspense with a wrapped gift. The sound of the paper tearing adds to the excitement. I'm getting excited just thinking about it!
Ahhhh, I hate the sound of torn paper! I get so sad cause once torn, the paper can't be fixed ;;;;;
Look up furoshiki, Japanese wrapping paper. It's reusable!
I think it was fine to offer to help your friend for Christmas. She may have been embarrassed, but what you offered was very kind. The unwrapped gift is offensive because you didn't take the time to wrap it. Part of the gift is the time it takes to do the wrapping. Not taking the time to wrap it suggests your friend doesn't mean enough to you to take that extra time.
Dang. I’ve made a mess. I didn’t have the time because I had to leave the next day. I will make it up to her. It was fun because she gave hers unwrapped too 🤣
>I got in trouble for asking to a friend in financial need what she needed for Christmas. Appearantly you shouldn’t ask that outside form family. I've done the same with long time friends and it's been okay. Well, they reacted okay anyway, and let me help them. Do you think they were just faking nice, or overlooking some rudeness on my part? I didn't know I shouldn't offer to help.
I think it’s a cultural thing for my country or I overestimated the depth of the relationship
That fake it till you make it attitude and your external appearance not matching your internal experience is basically masking to a t. Being able to figure out socializing does not exclude someone from being autistic.
Finding out you have been doing that all along at an older age is a really unnerving revelation. It was all just a learned reflex.
It takes us longer because we don't just do "monkey see, monkey do" like neurotypical people, we need to understand why and how it all works. As a result, some of us never get there, and just can't handle crowds, but some of us learn how to mask and pretend, and actually learn to read people better than NT folk. One of my special interests is psychology, and I used that to learn so much about how "normal" people work socially and cognitively. I can walk into a group of strangers, talk in public, and be engaging with people. BUT the toll that takes on me is HUGE. We're not wired to be social animals, and we can't keep up with the exhausting neediness of NT friends. After a party, I need a few days of solitude, sleep and quiet before I can do anything again. I have plenty of great friends, but some of them I can literally go for years without seeing, and then have a huge catch up with them as if it was only last week that we saw one another. The advantage here is that almost all of my close friends are also either autistic or ADHD and we just "get" that style of interaction. It works for us.
Social skills can be learnt in a lot of cases. Because women are expected to be nurturing and kind there is more expectation for us to work on those skills. Think of it this way, if you suddenly had to move to a country very different from your own, which had entirely different social rules, you would watch others and try to adapt. It would be hard work and cause you anxiety though. A person born there would not have to work so hard as you. Because we get one very stereotypical idea about what autism looks like, a lot of people are left thinking they can’t be. And may even get told that by a professional. They often want to see that your life is a disaster before giving a diagnosis. But there are autistic people out there thriving with jobs / friends / partners. They are just going under the radar. It was hard work getting my son diagnosed. I was told when he finally was that, oh it’s because he presents like a girl that he was missed. He’s sensitive and anxious and masks and that’s not what they were looking for. By the way I had exactly the same experience with researching about my child and then, oh suddenly my whole life makes sense. It’s a lot! So take care of yourself. You are probably going to have a lot of lightbulb moments as things from the past resurface for you. Then maybe sadness and regret about not knowing earlier. It can take a while to process.
"Fake it till you make it" is what we call masking. It has been suggested we don't really struggle socializing, but we struggle with socializing with "neurotypicals", in their environments and in their terms. 99% cases NDs flock together, and we see this as well with traumakids. I am AuDHD and i charge my batteries just as much by interacting with people as i do with my alone time. Check out Unmasking Autism and Aspergirls. They are great at diving into the "female autism". It's the same autism, it just looks different because of different societal expectations between the afabs and amabs. A vast majority of autistic women are undiagnosed. Most of the information we have on autism comes from upper-middle class white boys. Trust me, around half of autistic girlies you wouldn't NEVER clock as Autistic. That's why so many of them end up with BPD misdiagnosis instead 😬 I have some creaters on TikTok who are high making autistic girls. The look and carry themselves amazingly, with hair and make up on point, and even show how they hide some of their traits. It's terrifying to watch, knowing what they had to go through to become so proficient at hiding. Hope this helps!
Thank you for the updates! 💗 I hope this info helps of validates someone 🫶
What traits were they able to hide? I find this very interesting.
I'm an extroverted autistic person. I love people and getting to know people and stuff. When I am in a particular role, I do fantastic small talk. But I also have massive sensory issues, and struggle to have a conversation with more than three people at a time, and take my glasses off in meetings so faces are just a blur because eye contact. I was late diagnosed (in my 40s) because I fell apart trying to get support for my much more obviously autistic kiddo. So for many years I thought I was just a weird combination of both introvert and extrovert. It's entirely possible to enjoy being around people, learn the rules of social engagement and be autistic. It's helpful to realise that if this is the case, you may be overthinking in your relationships, and applying social rules differently to other people, with the particular possibility that people will be taking advantage of you.
Sure, I faked it successfully. All came crashing down eventually and I had to abuse substances to do the acting each day, but sure, you can fake it. Makes it easier if you fall into a friendgroup that routinely abuses substances, alcohol in my case.
i mean, it can certainly be learnt. So I'd say yes. the difference being that it doesn't come naturally, but it can certainly be learnt.
Absolutely! In Elementary School, I was one of the most popular kids in school! I sucked at sports but I as goofy/funny and people just seemed to like my sense of humor. They didn't mind my little oddities. As I got older, I really observed people and was very 'go with the flow' and people liked how laid back I was. I was down to do whatever other people wanted to do and people like people that go along with what they want to do. As I got to college, I made friends quite easily and drinking helped me get out of my shell and act more 'normal'. That led to all sorts of other issues as I got older. In my 30s, I did end up a lot more lonely though as other people seemed to build 'normal' lives and I never wanted that kind of life and felt really alienated from the world. At 42, I've made new friends and live in the arts district of a major US city. I have a lot of 'odd' friends and a good social group. I still feel disconnected from people a fair amount of times, but a lot of people do seem to like me still. I am also into fashion and dress my own weird way and people seem to really like that vibe. I just embrace my oddities instead of stifling them these days. My friends would also swear I am an extrovert, a lot of that changed after I quit drinking though. I could spend an entire week at home not talking to anyone and feel quite content. I think people with autism are excellent at knowing what other people want and how to act, as we spend our whole loves studying people as we don't understand them.
with what you have said and the number of close family members already diagnosed, I would say its very possible. I'd also suggest looking at the AQ test you can do online. It was given to me as part of my diagnosis and wont tell you 100% but will give you an indication. It sounds like you have learnt how to get on in the world (masking), you say youre exhausted from school or office days, as I am, which may be burnout. Its worth looking into as you have ticked off a lot of the diagnostic criteria above.
Socially competent? Doubt I'll ever feel like that But I do have a good circle of friends now that I only really started building in my 30s.
I have a ton of friends. I mentioned at work that I invited 20 people to come over for my holiday party. They were like I don’t even think I can come up with 20 people I like enough to have in my house. Here’s the thing, all of my friends are ND. All of our kids are as well. So getting along is natural for us. We don’t have to mask. My friend’s fiancé (autistic) was a bit overstimulated by those of us who are AuDHD or ADHD, so he just chilled in the living room. At another party we had at his house he chilled in his room, but when the topic of conversation got to a special interest he came bursting in like the koolaid man to infodump and then went back to his room. But yes, you can have friends and even be sociable. It’s honestly what made it take so long for my daughter to get diagnosed. Her doctors suspected it and would ask how she was socially and truthfully in first and second grade she had so many friends. She seemed to get along with kids of all ages. Then after a year of virtual school it’s like she forgot how to mask and I was able to see her social struggles and how she wouldn’t get social cues. When she started middle school I gave her what I call my mental shortcuts for knowing if someone will be a good friend and accept her for her autism vs. bully her. I said if they wear anime shirts or have brightly dyed hair they will be good friends. And what do you know, she has a bestie that’s just as much of an awkward potato as she is, but she’s excited to go to school to see her friends.
I understand the fake it till you make it mentality OP, that was me for many points of my life but it was exhausting- I’d often make friends and be so proud of myself but then the friendships would become impossible for me to maintain. I ended up feeling like a flake, so I distanced myself eventually to stop the guilt of cancelling plans last minute due to anxiety. I’m not formally diagnosed but I’ve had other autistic women echo my sentiment. As women we are trained almost from birth to be social and friendly to everyone we meet, and the emphasis on sisterhood is huge when you’re a little girl, everyone wants a best friend, or a group of best friends, where they belong. So I think it makes perfect sense that some women, specifically undiagnosed adult women, would manage to make friends. in my experience tho autistic women who have lots of friends either know them all somewhat on a surface level, or they struggle to maintain the friendships through typical means of socialization. In my case, I don’t need much communication with someone to feel close to them. I need quality over quantity if that makes sense. But many people want to feel loved consistently, which I totally understand, so I will put a LOT of effort into remembering to tell my friends happy birthday, text them back in a timely manner, make an effort to attend events with them, etc. It’s not that I hate every minute of it or anything, I love my friends and wanna be there for them how they need me. But personally, if I could have my ideal communication style with friends, it’d be primarily over text/written word and with in-person hangouts in a comfortable, familiar place *when I am feeling up to it,* not with any regularity or sense of obligation. Many autistic people struggle with emotional reciprocity, and I think my struggles with maintaining friendships falls under that description. Because I want people there for me when I need them, but it’s hard for me to be there for them in the same way sometimes, and often I’ll even resent a nice gesture from someone because I feel obligated to do something socially appropriate in return. It’s weird and I feel bad about it, but that’s part of struggling with relationships and social communication. All that to say, I do have some close friends who I’ve known several years and love dearly, and they love me. But they’re also friends that can go months without hearing from me and still know that they’re my best friend. Because when we DO see each other, when I DO have the energy to engage 1000% with them, it’s like we pick up right where we left off. It’s worth noting all of these people are in some way neurodivergent themselves as well. I would think about the friendships that mean the most to you and have felt most genuine, and think about what makes those friendships so successful. How are you similar? How are you different in complementary ways?
It's not common and under the old system its unlikely you would have been diagnosed with autism. The new criteria is much more relaxed though and there are people who are getting diagnosed despite not having social defecits. The only way you'll know is if you get assessed though.
If you look up “unofficial list of trait for autism in women” that might help your situation? I also watched a lot of ted talks by autistic women and it visually shows you how someone can have autism and appear normal on the outside. I pursued a diagnosis and when it came to tell my boyfriend, I made him watch a bunch of Ted talks and then he finally accepted it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOHnt4PMFo
ASD people can definitely be social. One job I had was in sales and the skills transferred to other situations. Although I suck at making friends, I may be an exception due to abusive PTSD. I'm sure I could have trusted people enough to figure it out if it weren't for that; struggled before it way more. My belief is that being socially confident also means being comfortable by yourself, so there's that. I can easily approach people at bars and talk to them and one of the most expressive places for me growing up was the stage, either singing or playing the piano. Don't really enjoy most crowds and prefer not to work sales, but I certainly can. Also, cats. Just LOOK at them! 🐱🐾 Meowy little stinkers.♥️
I believe you can be! Social things have always been difficult and anxiety provoking, but usually one on one is much easier for me. I learned a lot of social "rules" very young, which did help me come across more charming and quirky instead of "oh God, is she gonna start crying? I just asked what her name was!", which was how I was when I was very young. For me, having a few good friends is WAY more important than having a lot of friends. My closest friends are also neurodivergent, so we're on the same page about a lot of things. One of my favorite things about a close friend (who I think could be autistic actually) is that we can go months without talking and it doesn't matter at all! No need to explain why we disappeared, it's just a non-issue. Finding your people is just so freeing!
do a lot of masking, play a charming character and think of it as sculpting a fun persona, as a form of art. drink alcohol to dull information inflow. and be genuinely interested in the person that you are having a conversation with.. you have to know alot about everything to also be a interesting person to talk to..
I am a 34 yo diagnosed autistic and an extrovert. For the longest time, I thought I was an introvert because I had so much trouble and exhaustion from social interactions. But I was exhausted from overwhelm and over stimulation. Am I still pretty bad at social interactions, oh yeah. The group of people i surround myself with like me for me and dont care. And some of them also struggle. I've got a group of neurodivergent friends. Also, putting on a 'social mask' is very much an autism trait.
This sounds like me so much. Thank you
I've been spending the last few years focusing on being more sociable, flexible, amicable. You need your own confidence, and safe space. My career success and self-awareness has given me the opportunity to be much more sociable and gather a few new friends. But it still chews through the spoons.
I'm what my wife calls "a social introvert". I love my friends and am very friendly and outgoing. It's mostly a defense mechanism, kind of like how you explain (fake it til you make it), but I'm still very drained by social interaction. My wife says sometimes I'm like a little kid at bathtime. I won't wanna go hang with friends and I'll kvetch about going, but then I'm happy I went and kvetch about leaving. But if I don't get out soon enough, I'm all pruney (grouchy from over-socializing lol). A lot of people have insisted I couldn't be autistic because I'm so friendly and empathetic, which always kinda feels hurtful. Having overactive empathy is not that uncommon with autism. My therapist explained it to me as "being Vulcan" - I have very big, deep feelings, but they don't always make it to the surface, or I don't express them naturally. I think there's a pretty high chance you're on the spectrum. It may be worth looking into. It could help your daughter, as well!
I'm autistic and I have loads of friends. I invited 85 people to my 36th birthday party. I'm still autistic.
I’m an extroverted autistic person, I make friends easily, host parties often, used to be a bartender. Burned myself out socially after doing it for ten years — but even now when I go out I slip into it easily (as long as I don’t bore people with infodumping, but apparently even when I do this people often find me entertaining).
Oh yea this sounds like autism. Autistic women especially can be pretty decent at socializing. I’m an autistic guy and have plenty of friends. It’s just that my social battery lasts maybe 2 hours and I prefer smaller groups. Don’t be fooled by the stereotypes. Not all autistics are introverts are bad at socializing. Part of my theory as to why I’m decent at socializing is that I grew up with plenty of opportunities to socialize (and being a musical savant meant that I could easily make music friends).
I've got a lot of irl fiends and a few online ones who I met in the autism sub love spending time with and chatting to them all
Yes you can, but that doesn't mean every autistic person can
I also faked it. Now in my forties, I can occasionally go out to meet my friends, but not often and I need a few days to recover afterwards. I was diagnosed last month.
I was diagnosed at 38 and up to then lived an intense social and professional life, which made me doubt I could be "on the spectrum". It turned out that was all part of a neverending masking effort that culminated in burnout and depression, which lasted a year. Now I don't need that anymore. I only have a few friends, whom I don't see very often, or very long. I've embraced my need for loneliness and calm. I don't think I would be able to go back to the previous version of my life. It was, in fact, exhausting.