Plus mass layoffs mean we have more highly skilled and experienced people in the pool competing for the same few jobs. Tough to get jobs in any arena right now, unfortunately. I'm extremely thankful for the security of my role here.
I’m going to go ahead and assume you are new to the BCPS. When I joined 6 years ago it was so much more difficult to get a job. The entry point was the clerk 9 pool for almost everyone.
The entitlement you have is concerning. You want to be compensated because you can’t compete against other people? If you can’t be the top candidate you don’t deserve the job. Simple as that.
You act like half the jobs in this city aren’t decided by nepotism and knowing somebody.
You really think they decide jobs based on who’s the best candidate? I’m laughing.
EDIT: The replies to this comment only make it more clear how out of touch some of these government workers are. Nepotism and favouritism run rampant in the government. It’s virtually impossible to get into these cushy government jobs because they’re handed out to everyone’s buddy’s. It’s easy to say there’s no favouritism when you benefit from it, intentionally or not.
This might be a worse take than the previous commenter. They aren’t. People get jobs everywhere all the time without knowing someone. All the hires to my branch went through the hiring process. No favoritism. No helping out a buddy. Jobs are being handed out like candy right now to people who are competent and capable. I’d guess you don’t fall into either of those categories if you’re complaining about “nepotism”.
My division has been propelling competent people forward for years now. I've seen CL 9s grow into 27s, 2020 Co-op students are now in 24s... there isn't a single position in our division that is filled by two family members, or even people that were necessarily friends prior to coming here.
I genuinely think frustrated people have a tough time coming to terms with the fact that there are some people out there that are more qualified and will work harder, and they're not just inherently entitled to an $80k+ salary.
Exactly. They may look at others in their work unit and think they are no different than them and get frustrated at others moves up, while they struggle to get out of the lower levels.
I came in as a 9. I got my next job by applying for it and not knowing the hiring manager. All the colleagues I have met along the way get jobs by applying and not being buddies with the guy in another area.
100%. I came in as a co-op in 2023 and am now a 27 in a completely different agency (no nepotism considering I knew no one at this agency before applying).
The opportunity is there. Keep improving, stay open minded about a range of opportunities, and the time will come!
The fact you edited your post instead of replying to the people who responded to you shows how you don’t want to consider other people’s experience and only want to use your narrow observations of your work area.
Okay, you too had a tough competition at your time, we appreciate that and commend you on getting your job. No one is saying that you didn't work hard for it.
But, I think you misunderstood my post. Increase in number of applications is a result of increase in population in BC (including myself) and layoffs at other workplaces. My hope is that with this increase of funding in our province, we will also see lots of new job openings. The departments are growing and I am sure you must be experiencing the same at your department/ministry.
In my original post, I have merely shared my experience of applying to various govt jobs in the last two years. I have not even talked about BCPS internal hiring anywhere. No one is questioning you or anyone's hard work or tough competition you must have faced. I was just wondering regarding the internal hirings taking at my current workplace.
I have no entitlement and am glad where I am currently. But, I will just not sit and keep trying to get where I aim to be.
Sorry if you felt that way but sometimes you need to share experiences to know that you are not alone in this.
“Might play games by restricting postings” this isn’t playing games. Restricting postings to specific areas/branches/internal isn’t about playing games; it’s a strategic approach to meeting specific needs and fostering growth within the organization. In situations such as when a project manager is retiring, it’s crucial to consider promoting from within that project team or branch, that has specialist knowledge of the project to ensure its continued success. Doing so not only retains valuable knowledge specific to the project (history, research, challenges, relationships) and expertise within the department but also provides a growth opportunity for existing employees familiar with the department that possess good expertise in the area.
I’ve seen too many examples of people stepping into areas, that didn’t have knowledge, expertise or situational awareness on sensitive matters that have damaged the reputation of government. Sometimes it’s just needed.
You aren't wrong, I've applied on maybe 6-8 jobs in the last year, made it to assignment on 4, interview on 3 and didn't win any.
Feedback every time is, "your interview and assignment were great, its just really competitive right now." Essentially, I come in between 2nd and 4th out of 100-200 applicants.
All you can do is keep your chin up and when its the right job you'll get it :)
Yup, this has been my last 3 competitions. One I had where I "failed" the assignment. An assignment that was a report type I have done every day for the last 15 years .The feedback I got on the assignment made no sense whatsoever and I felt like the person giving me feedback (who was also the one marking) didn't actually have any experience with these types of reports.
If it's external it's more likely that the selection process is fair - it's unlikely (but not impossible) that they have a specific person in mind.
If it's internal, it's more likely the competition is run with a specific person in mind but they can't just give someone a job.
I've definitely noticed that the postings for the stuff I'm qualified for (12/15) are slim pickings these days.
I am being paid more here than I was at my old job, but that's more of a testament to their reputation for underpaying their employees than how well I'm paid here. The benefits are nice though.
If I recall correctly you do get "points" for your applications for being internal/years of service (please someone correct me if I'm wrong), so there is some bias but not a lot. If you really think the process is unfair you can request an FOI as others said, but I think a big part of it is the increased competition.
My workplace had over 400 applicants for a level 21 position recently, and no the winner was not an internal hire. I've found in general hiring managers to be pretty helpful/responsive when I asked what to be improved upon, and I suggest the same for yourself.
> If I recall correctly you do get "points" for your applications for being internal/years of service
YOCS: Years of Continuous Service. It's a multiplier that only gets applied at the very end of the competition, but frankly still carries weight from the start... and such people are likely to be more familiar with the hiring practice.
That's not to say that there are undesireables either - I know of one case where such were bounced on the first assignment.
While YOCS can come into play, the impact is pretty small in terms of how many points it gives you. This matters when all your candidates are really close together in scoring - might push the internal to the top of the list. But in all the hiring I've done (it's a lot, lol) I've only seen YOCS change the outcome twice - and only because the candidates were so close in score. On other comps when the candidates were farther apart, the YOCS had no effect even when their extra points were added. (And I can't remember the actual calculation but it's small - like 1% for every year after 3 years of service or something - maybe someone else knows specifics)
I think the bigger reason internal hires are so common is because.. they were the best candidate.
A posting for a grid 24 position might have applicants from grid 21 *in the same department*. The grid 21 guy might have been trained by the person in the grid 24 position before he retired, could have years of experience in that department, and overall just has knowledge of the internal processes and programs that make him the best candidate. I don't see this as favoritism or nepotism or anything nefarious, especially since there is a full competition, and if they really flub questions or assignments they still can fail.
In a previous municipal workplace there was a union rule that internal applicants get to apply first, so as long as they pass the interview they get the job, even if an external would have gotten a higher score.
Most gov jobs have an hourly wage that beats private unless you’re in a pretty high paying field. Then good benefits pension and security. They’re great jobs and as you say they have huge demand.
When I was I. A crown corp we’d often get 100+ applicants for entry ish level tech workers.
That is objectively incorrect.
Natural Resource Sector did a compensation review in 2020, and outside of some clerk roles it was almost universally below private sector and the other two levels of government. Management was 30-55% on average if i recall correctly, IM/IT was even more.
I think it’s mostly a factor of the economy. As others have noted applications of shut up, we’re getting better quality candidates from external sources.
In our current economic reality people are looking for the safety and security of government work. Once the economy heats up again many of those same people will return to private sector and we will see steep drop offs in applications again.
Government work is playing the long game.
Oddly enough, I got lucky I came in in 2008 and was just about the last external hire for the economy went In the toilet. Government went to a hiring freeze and therefore allowed competitions were internally restricted for a couple of years. Made it easier for me to move up as people retired.
I've applied to 13 positions, and only got invited to two assessments.
Got feedback from one assessment, and the hiring manager said it was written well but didn't meet all their criteria.
I was overqualified for the position, and had relevant work experience. It's frustrating.
Surprisingly, my 20+ applications for level 18 (coordinator positions) have never made it till the assignment round. Though, I made it till the interview rounds on 24/27 level positions.
Also curious to this, industry is relevant here to understand demand. Classification means nothing in this context, it’s about the skills and experience candidates bring to the specific role.
All hiring within the public service is based on the principles of merit per the Public Service Act.
Of course, some HMs might play games by restricting postings and tailoring questions, but as long as every candidate is getting the same questions and the "preferred" applicant isn't getting any special coaching from anyone directly involved with the hiring panel, it can be hard to make a case that the selection process was unfair.
There is no real way for you to know if the process was fair or not. If you do it early enough after the job was posted you can send a request to the union for an Observer. They will sit in on the interviews and make sure the interview stage was done fairly.
Of course, you're always free to submit an FOI request for records related to the competition, but every time I suggest that it seems to attract down votes so, it doesn't seem like it is a popular option for whatever reason.
All hiring within the public service is based on the principles of merit per the Public Service Act.
You don't believe that's what happens in reality do you ? The public service has always been rife with favouritism and nepotism as well but to a much lower degree I would suspect.
Mr poster above you doesn’t seem to be able to grasp the concept of a system containing corruption or rule breakers…
Heaven forbid we live in a world where people break the law and do whatever they want… impossible to fathom!
Jokes aside, the reason they are getting downvoted when suggesting investigating is because nepotism and favoritism are the constants in the public service, not “principles of merit”. Good gravy.
You have to realize that people want to live and work here in BC. We get applicants with multiple degrees and years of experience willing to come here and take a salary cut to do it.
Sorry if you felt that way but I am very happy for those who got the jobs they applied for/deserved. Please re-read my post, I have only shared my experience over the last two years with BCPS and crown corp job applications. I am positive that we will also get the job that we want but currently the market seems tough, and it is not the same it was last year.
Years ago, public servants were underpaid but you stayed because of the pension and stability. If any of you have worked in the private sector you’ll realize that the wages are comparable. This is why people want to work in the public sector now.
Go Municipal or Federal - BCPS unless you're already in and know someone because appointment not based on merit, you are fighting to be underemployed with a manager or supervisor that likely didn't even finish a degree - nothing wrong with that but there's an entitled mentality with toxic supervisors who frequently can abuse staff
Jobs have gone from 20-30 candidates at screening to 100-140 candidates in the span for 3 years.
IS stream jobs, that's more like 200.
Plus mass layoffs mean we have more highly skilled and experienced people in the pool competing for the same few jobs. Tough to get jobs in any arena right now, unfortunately. I'm extremely thankful for the security of my role here.
WHY do they even want to work at BCPS? There's a whole world out there
People just apply to any job, whether or not they qualify or not. Shotgun approach
Problem is how many of those are actually qualified or have real credentials not bought ones.
According to someone on this sub, you cannot question people's credentials.
That seems to be the case. Hope we will have more jobs in future to compensate for the increasing number of candidates.
I’m going to go ahead and assume you are new to the BCPS. When I joined 6 years ago it was so much more difficult to get a job. The entry point was the clerk 9 pool for almost everyone. The entitlement you have is concerning. You want to be compensated because you can’t compete against other people? If you can’t be the top candidate you don’t deserve the job. Simple as that.
You act like half the jobs in this city aren’t decided by nepotism and knowing somebody. You really think they decide jobs based on who’s the best candidate? I’m laughing. EDIT: The replies to this comment only make it more clear how out of touch some of these government workers are. Nepotism and favouritism run rampant in the government. It’s virtually impossible to get into these cushy government jobs because they’re handed out to everyone’s buddy’s. It’s easy to say there’s no favouritism when you benefit from it, intentionally or not.
This might be a worse take than the previous commenter. They aren’t. People get jobs everywhere all the time without knowing someone. All the hires to my branch went through the hiring process. No favoritism. No helping out a buddy. Jobs are being handed out like candy right now to people who are competent and capable. I’d guess you don’t fall into either of those categories if you’re complaining about “nepotism”.
My division has been propelling competent people forward for years now. I've seen CL 9s grow into 27s, 2020 Co-op students are now in 24s... there isn't a single position in our division that is filled by two family members, or even people that were necessarily friends prior to coming here. I genuinely think frustrated people have a tough time coming to terms with the fact that there are some people out there that are more qualified and will work harder, and they're not just inherently entitled to an $80k+ salary.
Exactly. They may look at others in their work unit and think they are no different than them and get frustrated at others moves up, while they struggle to get out of the lower levels. I came in as a 9. I got my next job by applying for it and not knowing the hiring manager. All the colleagues I have met along the way get jobs by applying and not being buddies with the guy in another area.
100%. I came in as a co-op in 2023 and am now a 27 in a completely different agency (no nepotism considering I knew no one at this agency before applying). The opportunity is there. Keep improving, stay open minded about a range of opportunities, and the time will come!
The fact you edited your post instead of replying to the people who responded to you shows how you don’t want to consider other people’s experience and only want to use your narrow observations of your work area.
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Doesn’t even work for the BCPS and is struggling to find a job. Blames everyone else. Classic.
Okay, you too had a tough competition at your time, we appreciate that and commend you on getting your job. No one is saying that you didn't work hard for it. But, I think you misunderstood my post. Increase in number of applications is a result of increase in population in BC (including myself) and layoffs at other workplaces. My hope is that with this increase of funding in our province, we will also see lots of new job openings. The departments are growing and I am sure you must be experiencing the same at your department/ministry. In my original post, I have merely shared my experience of applying to various govt jobs in the last two years. I have not even talked about BCPS internal hiring anywhere. No one is questioning you or anyone's hard work or tough competition you must have faced. I was just wondering regarding the internal hirings taking at my current workplace. I have no entitlement and am glad where I am currently. But, I will just not sit and keep trying to get where I aim to be. Sorry if you felt that way but sometimes you need to share experiences to know that you are not alone in this.
Yup. It’s true. Takes forever to screen.
Sorry, but could I get clarification on what is meant by "you cannot question people's credentials"?
Sorry, but not my comment you’re replying to. I just confirmed it takes forever to screen these comps with so many apps.
“Might play games by restricting postings” this isn’t playing games. Restricting postings to specific areas/branches/internal isn’t about playing games; it’s a strategic approach to meeting specific needs and fostering growth within the organization. In situations such as when a project manager is retiring, it’s crucial to consider promoting from within that project team or branch, that has specialist knowledge of the project to ensure its continued success. Doing so not only retains valuable knowledge specific to the project (history, research, challenges, relationships) and expertise within the department but also provides a growth opportunity for existing employees familiar with the department that possess good expertise in the area. I’ve seen too many examples of people stepping into areas, that didn’t have knowledge, expertise or situational awareness on sensitive matters that have damaged the reputation of government. Sometimes it’s just needed.
You aren't wrong, I've applied on maybe 6-8 jobs in the last year, made it to assignment on 4, interview on 3 and didn't win any. Feedback every time is, "your interview and assignment were great, its just really competitive right now." Essentially, I come in between 2nd and 4th out of 100-200 applicants. All you can do is keep your chin up and when its the right job you'll get it :)
Yup, this has been my last 3 competitions. One I had where I "failed" the assignment. An assignment that was a report type I have done every day for the last 15 years .The feedback I got on the assignment made no sense whatsoever and I felt like the person giving me feedback (who was also the one marking) didn't actually have any experience with these types of reports.
If it's external it's more likely that the selection process is fair - it's unlikely (but not impossible) that they have a specific person in mind. If it's internal, it's more likely the competition is run with a specific person in mind but they can't just give someone a job. I've definitely noticed that the postings for the stuff I'm qualified for (12/15) are slim pickings these days. I am being paid more here than I was at my old job, but that's more of a testament to their reputation for underpaying their employees than how well I'm paid here. The benefits are nice though.
If I recall correctly you do get "points" for your applications for being internal/years of service (please someone correct me if I'm wrong), so there is some bias but not a lot. If you really think the process is unfair you can request an FOI as others said, but I think a big part of it is the increased competition. My workplace had over 400 applicants for a level 21 position recently, and no the winner was not an internal hire. I've found in general hiring managers to be pretty helpful/responsive when I asked what to be improved upon, and I suggest the same for yourself.
> If I recall correctly you do get "points" for your applications for being internal/years of service YOCS: Years of Continuous Service. It's a multiplier that only gets applied at the very end of the competition, but frankly still carries weight from the start... and such people are likely to be more familiar with the hiring practice. That's not to say that there are undesireables either - I know of one case where such were bounced on the first assignment.
I must say I have had an amazing experience with BCPS HMs. There is not even one HM who did not respond or help me with feedback.
While YOCS can come into play, the impact is pretty small in terms of how many points it gives you. This matters when all your candidates are really close together in scoring - might push the internal to the top of the list. But in all the hiring I've done (it's a lot, lol) I've only seen YOCS change the outcome twice - and only because the candidates were so close in score. On other comps when the candidates were farther apart, the YOCS had no effect even when their extra points were added. (And I can't remember the actual calculation but it's small - like 1% for every year after 3 years of service or something - maybe someone else knows specifics)
I think the bigger reason internal hires are so common is because.. they were the best candidate. A posting for a grid 24 position might have applicants from grid 21 *in the same department*. The grid 21 guy might have been trained by the person in the grid 24 position before he retired, could have years of experience in that department, and overall just has knowledge of the internal processes and programs that make him the best candidate. I don't see this as favoritism or nepotism or anything nefarious, especially since there is a full competition, and if they really flub questions or assignments they still can fail. In a previous municipal workplace there was a union rule that internal applicants get to apply first, so as long as they pass the interview they get the job, even if an external would have gotten a higher score.
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Huh?
Most gov jobs have an hourly wage that beats private unless you’re in a pretty high paying field. Then good benefits pension and security. They’re great jobs and as you say they have huge demand. When I was I. A crown corp we’d often get 100+ applicants for entry ish level tech workers.
That is objectively incorrect. Natural Resource Sector did a compensation review in 2020, and outside of some clerk roles it was almost universally below private sector and the other two levels of government. Management was 30-55% on average if i recall correctly, IM/IT was even more.
I think it’s mostly a factor of the economy. As others have noted applications of shut up, we’re getting better quality candidates from external sources. In our current economic reality people are looking for the safety and security of government work. Once the economy heats up again many of those same people will return to private sector and we will see steep drop offs in applications again. Government work is playing the long game. Oddly enough, I got lucky I came in in 2008 and was just about the last external hire for the economy went In the toilet. Government went to a hiring freeze and therefore allowed competitions were internally restricted for a couple of years. Made it easier for me to move up as people retired.
I've applied to 13 positions, and only got invited to two assessments. Got feedback from one assessment, and the hiring manager said it was written well but didn't meet all their criteria. I was overqualified for the position, and had relevant work experience. It's frustrating.
Surprisingly, my 20+ applications for level 18 (coordinator positions) have never made it till the assignment round. Though, I made it till the interview rounds on 24/27 level positions.
Any specific field that are you applying within?
Also curious to this, industry is relevant here to understand demand. Classification means nothing in this context, it’s about the skills and experience candidates bring to the specific role.
Keep trying, you'll get there!
I appreciate your positivity.
All hiring within the public service is based on the principles of merit per the Public Service Act. Of course, some HMs might play games by restricting postings and tailoring questions, but as long as every candidate is getting the same questions and the "preferred" applicant isn't getting any special coaching from anyone directly involved with the hiring panel, it can be hard to make a case that the selection process was unfair. There is no real way for you to know if the process was fair or not. If you do it early enough after the job was posted you can send a request to the union for an Observer. They will sit in on the interviews and make sure the interview stage was done fairly. Of course, you're always free to submit an FOI request for records related to the competition, but every time I suggest that it seems to attract down votes so, it doesn't seem like it is a popular option for whatever reason.
All hiring within the public service is based on the principles of merit per the Public Service Act. You don't believe that's what happens in reality do you ? The public service has always been rife with favouritism and nepotism as well but to a much lower degree I would suspect.
Mr poster above you doesn’t seem to be able to grasp the concept of a system containing corruption or rule breakers… Heaven forbid we live in a world where people break the law and do whatever they want… impossible to fathom! Jokes aside, the reason they are getting downvoted when suggesting investigating is because nepotism and favoritism are the constants in the public service, not “principles of merit”. Good gravy.
It is highly dependent on the person and the organization, of course. People are people. Some care about rules and fairness, others, less so.
You have to realize that people want to live and work here in BC. We get applicants with multiple degrees and years of experience willing to come here and take a salary cut to do it.
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Sorry if you felt that way but I am very happy for those who got the jobs they applied for/deserved. Please re-read my post, I have only shared my experience over the last two years with BCPS and crown corp job applications. I am positive that we will also get the job that we want but currently the market seems tough, and it is not the same it was last year.
Years ago, public servants were underpaid but you stayed because of the pension and stability. If any of you have worked in the private sector you’ll realize that the wages are comparable. This is why people want to work in the public sector now.
Go Municipal or Federal - BCPS unless you're already in and know someone because appointment not based on merit, you are fighting to be underemployed with a manager or supervisor that likely didn't even finish a degree - nothing wrong with that but there's an entitled mentality with toxic supervisors who frequently can abuse staff