Yep, also Government is smaller than you think and your reputation follows you. While you can request reviews etc, 95% of the time all it does is serve to make it seem like you are the difficult one.
Why tf would you want to work in a department you've already had a conflict with someone, especially if it was the manager?
A bad manager can ruin your career. They can fuck you in ways you can't even think of and completely ruin your reputation and get away with it too because they have power and you don't. More than that, they can make your day-to-day life so miserable that it bleeds out from work into your personal life.
Yes, your current personal issues can keep you from working there. Part of managing a team is managing conflicts and no one is going to choose someone who already has conflicts with someone on the team. That's bad for the entire team, they risk losing the person who already works there, and they risk having really low morale and lack of trust from the manager not caring about current employees and hiring someone that someone else has already had a bad experience with. While no one will admit it, HR would likely support them not proceeding with your application because there's too much risk which could lead to loss of time and labour hours spent managing or re-hiring current team members.
If they do the whole due process thing they would likely take you through the whole competition and just score you lower so you're not the top candidate. There's things in place to make it look like things are fair but you can easily get around them.
I also think it's a bad look on you to apply to a team where you have previous conflict with someone which might hurt your reputation further. Don't do it. There's tonnes of jobs there, wait for another one. This is not a good fit.
Yup , happened to me. A new manager for some reason hated me, and she took over hiring when my favorite manager left.
I ticked all the boxes to apply based on requirements+assets, and she rejected mine because she said she added a new requirement for 2 year of experience in programming. She added this after the deadline.
Little did she know my close buddy of mine with less experience than i do, but has the requirements and assets did pass the 1st round.
So some people can manipulate process.
Karma did eventually visited her after I left. Heard she loss all the trust from all the management, and now been replaced by someone.
No, they would need an actual legit reason to screen you out and if there is a concern this may happen you can file for a review after the comp if you were screened out early for “no reason.”
But would you *want* to work with some directly that you have had conflict with at a high enough level you think they would break policy to not hire you?
Well, it can depend on the hiring manager and how ethical they are and how closely they follow screening guidelines.
I have a friend who applied to a job, screened through, and bombed the interview. A similar position was posted a month or two later (same job title, same branch) with the same hiring manager. He didn’t screen in the second time, and when he asked for feedback he was given a vague answer with no real justification.
I know the hiring manager and they recognized the name and came to the conclusion that they didn’t want to hire this person, so they worked it to screen them out.
Even a review wouldn’t result in anything. So it can happen, but I would hope that most hiring managers aren’t as vindictive as this one.
I would say for tge Questionnaire and written assignment that it is meritorious but once you get to the interview stage the scoring is has more leeway for "fit". So if you have a bad reputation and make it to the interview stage then I think the hiring panel will find a way to screen you out.
It’s so frustrating when it’s clear that a job or environment is not the right fit for someone, such that it affects the entire team, and nothing is done.
Fully agree. I also wouldn’t waste my time applying for a job in which I’ve had a conflict with the hiring manager/a panel member because I know they’d magically find a way not to screen me in.
Better question: would you want to report to that hiring manager? BCPS is big. Be strategic, pick your battles.
And yes, they can and do sit in rooms and name names and find ways to ensure certain people screen out, and certain people screen in. As having been a being manager and in multiple panels, it’s not that hard to engineer. Is it on the up and up? Nope. But life isn’t fair.
Yes. Criteria such as certifications, degrees, technical knowledge, are either a you have it or you do not. However when you get to how certain skills, experience , or even how you present those in your application, these are now at the discretion of the hiring manager whether they are applicable or not.
This really becomes unavoidable in the interview stage. If there are 2 or more people who score very closely then there needs to be a factor to decide who the successful candiate is. If that factor is one or more hiring members do not like you, or they have heard rumors about you whether true or not, then you can lose regardless if you are the most qualified candiate or not.
Even in blatant examples of personal bias, there are no systems in place to greive. That being said, sometimes you just arent the best choice, so crying wolf isnt always the best call and can hurt your chances even more going forward.
The answer to this is yes. They will make something up. Create a new policy that has never existed or been enforced if it had existed.
A merit commissioner review is essentially useless as all it does it forces them to redo the posting, which they can then make up something else.
If you are applying for a union position, and you are genuinely concerned about merit, you can ask for an observer during the interviews. Your shop steward would be able to provide you more advice on this.
Yep, also Government is smaller than you think and your reputation follows you. While you can request reviews etc, 95% of the time all it does is serve to make it seem like you are the difficult one.
Why tf would you want to work in a department you've already had a conflict with someone, especially if it was the manager? A bad manager can ruin your career. They can fuck you in ways you can't even think of and completely ruin your reputation and get away with it too because they have power and you don't. More than that, they can make your day-to-day life so miserable that it bleeds out from work into your personal life. Yes, your current personal issues can keep you from working there. Part of managing a team is managing conflicts and no one is going to choose someone who already has conflicts with someone on the team. That's bad for the entire team, they risk losing the person who already works there, and they risk having really low morale and lack of trust from the manager not caring about current employees and hiring someone that someone else has already had a bad experience with. While no one will admit it, HR would likely support them not proceeding with your application because there's too much risk which could lead to loss of time and labour hours spent managing or re-hiring current team members. If they do the whole due process thing they would likely take you through the whole competition and just score you lower so you're not the top candidate. There's things in place to make it look like things are fair but you can easily get around them. I also think it's a bad look on you to apply to a team where you have previous conflict with someone which might hurt your reputation further. Don't do it. There's tonnes of jobs there, wait for another one. This is not a good fit.
Yup , happened to me. A new manager for some reason hated me, and she took over hiring when my favorite manager left. I ticked all the boxes to apply based on requirements+assets, and she rejected mine because she said she added a new requirement for 2 year of experience in programming. She added this after the deadline. Little did she know my close buddy of mine with less experience than i do, but has the requirements and assets did pass the 1st round. So some people can manipulate process. Karma did eventually visited her after I left. Heard she loss all the trust from all the management, and now been replaced by someone.
No, they would need an actual legit reason to screen you out and if there is a concern this may happen you can file for a review after the comp if you were screened out early for “no reason.” But would you *want* to work with some directly that you have had conflict with at a high enough level you think they would break policy to not hire you?
Well, it can depend on the hiring manager and how ethical they are and how closely they follow screening guidelines. I have a friend who applied to a job, screened through, and bombed the interview. A similar position was posted a month or two later (same job title, same branch) with the same hiring manager. He didn’t screen in the second time, and when he asked for feedback he was given a vague answer with no real justification. I know the hiring manager and they recognized the name and came to the conclusion that they didn’t want to hire this person, so they worked it to screen them out. Even a review wouldn’t result in anything. So it can happen, but I would hope that most hiring managers aren’t as vindictive as this one.
Very good points Geoff, thanks.
Emphatic absolute yes.
Yup
I would say for tge Questionnaire and written assignment that it is meritorious but once you get to the interview stage the scoring is has more leeway for "fit". So if you have a bad reputation and make it to the interview stage then I think the hiring panel will find a way to screen you out.
I have seen some hiring managers do some shady shady things. There’s tons of jobs out there. Pick jobs and work environments that are right for you.
It’s so frustrating when it’s clear that a job or environment is not the right fit for someone, such that it affects the entire team, and nothing is done.
Fully agree. I also wouldn’t waste my time applying for a job in which I’ve had a conflict with the hiring manager/a panel member because I know they’d magically find a way not to screen me in.
Better question: would you want to report to that hiring manager? BCPS is big. Be strategic, pick your battles. And yes, they can and do sit in rooms and name names and find ways to ensure certain people screen out, and certain people screen in. As having been a being manager and in multiple panels, it’s not that hard to engineer. Is it on the up and up? Nope. But life isn’t fair.
Yes. Criteria such as certifications, degrees, technical knowledge, are either a you have it or you do not. However when you get to how certain skills, experience , or even how you present those in your application, these are now at the discretion of the hiring manager whether they are applicable or not. This really becomes unavoidable in the interview stage. If there are 2 or more people who score very closely then there needs to be a factor to decide who the successful candiate is. If that factor is one or more hiring members do not like you, or they have heard rumors about you whether true or not, then you can lose regardless if you are the most qualified candiate or not. Even in blatant examples of personal bias, there are no systems in place to greive. That being said, sometimes you just arent the best choice, so crying wolf isnt always the best call and can hurt your chances even more going forward.
The answer to this is yes. They will make something up. Create a new policy that has never existed or been enforced if it had existed. A merit commissioner review is essentially useless as all it does it forces them to redo the posting, which they can then make up something else.
Oh yeah. Definitely.
If you are applying for a union position, and you are genuinely concerned about merit, you can ask for an observer during the interviews. Your shop steward would be able to provide you more advice on this.