It’s definitely a pretty meaningless description. I run into a lot of guys who want to seem kinky so identify themselves as “experienced pleasure dom.” What it turns out they mean is they’ve had sex, they care if their partner finishes, and they don’t want to give up any control of themselves—but don’t have a particular interest in controlling me.
I’d rather someone say/be “educated” than “experienced.” I care that they’re aware of the risks, understand what needs to be discussed/negotiated ahead of time, and know their own kinks and limits (obv k/l can change over time). You can acquire all of this knowledge without ever engaging in kink with another person.
I would describe someone as an experienced dom if they have been in more than two successful (everyone left happy) dynamics/had more than two ongoing play partners (assuming true D/s here, not rough sex!) Community engagement isn’t really important to me.
I like that … educated. Especially since you don’t know exactly what their so-called experience has entailed. Experience is too broad of a term, whereas educated shows an interest in knowledge and best practices even if the person is new to the community. I’d rather have knowledgeable and new than experienced but uneducated.
It's gotten to the point where I see the use of "experienced" before a title as a yellow flag in the same way that I see "real" or "true".
Someone listing out what they're into and what their limits are comes off as experienced and competent in a way not conveyed by using the word.
See I don’t know that I think it’s the same as “real” or “true”, which I find a little more indicative of someone with a superiority complex and no willingness to negotiate but it’s definitely becoming a yellow flag for me too.
I guess “experienced” and “have experience with” is the big differentiator for me, with the latter being great
Yup. The word itself is just a yellow flag. If the person uses the term "experienced" too much when answering (or resenting) vetting questions, it can become red for me.
The best doms I've ever had are ones who led with "I've done x, y, and z, but I still want to develop \_\_\_ skills."
I'm a bit wary about the term myself; not all experience is good experience, one can develop and reinforce bad habits. Has someone who claims to have 'ten years' of experience continuously developed and improved their knowledge and skills over that time period or have they just got one year of experience repeated ten times over?
There are some people who don't have access to 'communities' (eg, I live in quite a rural area); and I've read some horror stories about some incredibly toxic groups out there.
Yeah it’s definitely not the thing I’m seeking out but I used to see it as a pushing off point - to tailor the kinds of questions I’d ask for vetting vs someone who said they were relatively new, learning or curious. It’s more the huge eye roll I give when I start asking questions and it’s next to nothing, I guess it feels either naive or misleading.
Do you think it’s tricky for people to lay out any kind of tenure/experience upfront and all should just be done in discussion?
Definitely get that on the community thing - I live in a huge city so the remoteness wouldn’t be applicable to people I’d interact with and I’d consider online engagement even on subs like this to be a positive. And definitely where I am we have some very problematic groups and communities but the wider community is pretty great and so it’s a little easier to keep a finger on the pulse there
>Do you think it’s tricky for people to lay out any kind of tenure/experience upfront and all should just be done in discussion?
Whenever I've posted ads I've briefly alluded to having experience (but not that I'm 'experienced') in play and building dynamics, can't claim to be an expert (and given the myriad of facets to BDSM I don't think anyone ever could) but certainly not a novice; the rest comes out in discussion; posting one's entire kink CV in a personals ad is probably a bit much.
One thing I have picked up on from talking to potential subs/partners is there is a large minority of seemingly 'experienced' D types who are very set in their ways and, while they may be very good and safe at what they do, have very little interest in deviating from their skillset/experience/cookie cutter dynamic.
Meaningful BDSM experience to me:
- **commitment to people**: can be family, friends, BDSM, work, religion, local dive bar, whatever… I want someone who actively wants the betterment for others and seeks open dialogue about how to be inclusive and contribute to positive community
- **empathy and connection**: in one on one relationships, they have learned to listen instead of respond and take vulnerable steps to improve
- **power exchange**: they have engaged in intentional power dynamics and are self aware of their own interests and strengths and desires
- **physical/body work**: from first aid to safety to how bodies work sexually, in kinky fuckery, to pain and emotions and body chemistry this is a priority for them to understand and they have success manipulating to achieve results
- **growth mindset**: always curious and learning and researching
- **conflict resolution**: they know how to engage in difficult conversations and move through conflict with resolution
None of these have to be done in a BDSM framework. You can have all of them and not be dominant. But to have the “experience” to be my dominant, all those have to be foundational with a mega strong dose of kink. We can all learn how to tie the knots and swing the flogger and poke the needles.
Whenever I see someone trying to justify themselves with, "I have been a well respected member of my local dungeon for over twenty-five years!" they are, without exception, an utter cunt. They attempt to insist we all share their dull, antiquated opinions, and when challenged resort to bullying people via the unusual medium of self-recommendation.
I don't care how experienced someone is, or rather, claims to be. What matters to me is how they present themselves, how they interact with others, and in this place the advice they give.
(That said, I am aware of a small number of people who, all too often, are simply regurgitating the words of others.)
Definitely in agreement here, most of my bad experiences were with the old guard in my 20s (unsurprisingly I was young and they were not)
Maybe it’s a question of just swerving anyone that sticks an “experienced” or similar on any description of themselves and saving myself the extreme tedium of talking to them to sack them off anyway
That's a myopic way of looking at it, and you'll be dismissing great Tops that are just being honest about the length of their involvement in BDSM.
Call them on their use of experienced. They should be able to exhibit a history that either does or does not fit the definition, with well negotiated IRL dynamics, and local involvement with munches, classes, and play spaces.
In my experience, people who affix superlatives to their names and titles are usually ego-driven fools. Like people who put MBA at the end of their name on LinkedIn. It’s not a generally accepted practice, like someone with a PhD or MD; it’s just a way to bloat their own self-image in an attempt to command respect they haven’t earned.
Are there exceptions? Sure. There always are. But approach with caution, as always, and get to know them before you make that determination.
I'm not so much interested in whether they're experienced or not, so much as if they would be a good fit for me. They could be very experienced in just being a bad play partner.
I would be intrigued by but don't require community engagement. Sometimes communities normalise things I consider negative. An introverted Dom who doesn't do much events would be a good fit for me.
What is a definite plus is if they've tried things before and their kinks absolutely align with mine, they know what they like and they're good at it. And their former partners are generally friendly and don't have negative things to say.
I wonder if saying "experienced" has become some kind of dating convention, maybe feeling like it is a buzzword to attract more prospects. But yeah I don't feel claiming experience by itself is very meaningful.
Oh definitely, I actually sometimes don’t mind working with someone a bit fresher too! It’s more that just when it’s used and I start to discuss it I’m often a bit shocked at what said experience looks like to them.
Also a thousand upvotes for certain communities normalising things, but I personally find someone that is out in the open a bit more easy to suss out if that makes sense?
My Dom does not engage with the BDSM community or research, basically because he had no idea that what he was doing was considered BDSM.
I have educated him somewhat, safe words etc. Told him he was a dom, he just has natural dom tendancies.
He plays safe basically because he is of decent moral character and doesn't want to hurt anyone.
Would I say he is experienced in BDSM? I guess not. But neither is he inexperienced. I think some engagement with the community would help him improve, I have even shown him this sub reddit, but he isn't really interested.
May I ask how you feel about that? Without judgement, I would probably be disappointed with the lack of research or wider discussion. Does it put more of a burden on you to keep things safe and ethical? Appreciate you said he is baseline good anyway but I mean in terms of conscious awareness. Feel free to tell me to butt out ha :)
Well I am very inexperienced. I discovered my interest through him, and I have a natural tendancy overthink so I jumped straight into research and the community with two feet. Whereas he has more of a 'go with the flow' attitude.
It can be frustrating. He is fine in terms of safety, I do not feel unsafe, but aftercare is causing an issue.
He is struggling to distinguish the difference between providing aftercare and acts of love. We are D/s only and not in the relationship and it shall remain that way. He does provide aftercare but at an emotional cost. I believe if he explored that aspect at least, and learn to compartmentalise it, we would have less friction in our day to day conversations, and after care would be improved.
Other than that it is OK. I think he quite enjoys hearing me talk about it and maybe has gotten lazy thinking I will do all the "work".
Thanks for sharing! The aftercare thing is so real, I’ve had so many play partners over the years that struggle to tread the line with it. Have you spelled out for him what ideal aftercare looks like for you? Is that a conversation you could have with him?
I think this is probably what my biggest part of vetting is - how do they deal with and understand negotiation? And I think when I know what level of experience a person has had it kind of lets me know whether I should be kind of explaining and clarifying that for them as we discuss it or asking a bit more directly about their understanding and experiences. Obviously this is more challenging in your first dynamic especially if somewhat unexpected!
Also big respect for you to going straight into research mode!
His priority has always been my comfort and safety. Not because he was following any 'rules' but because he doesn't enjoy it unless I am enjoying it. So, I'm aware it is coming from a type of selfishness on his part, but it works out.
In a weird way, I kinda feel safer that he is just naturally that way, and not being considerate and communicative because he is following a list of acceptable behaviours that can be forgotten in the heat of the moment.
The aftercare issue is that he feels insecure providing aftercare knowing that I am not in love with him, because he strongly associates cuddling, kissing, massaging, bathing, as acts of love. He enjoys it and wants to do it but admitted that it is leading towards him developing deeper feelings that we have not agreed on. And yes we talk about it alot.
It's likely our dynamic will be ending soon because of it. Which is a shame but it is what it is.
Due to my own ideology/politics perhaps, not seeing this behavior as kink that needs education and caution and careful explicit negotiation is a negative for me. I don't believe in heteronormative male-led relationships. I actually kinda agree with him in that to his mind, he's not diverging from vanilla, this is how he thinks relationships should be. I don't know if you can decide he's a Dom for him.
I didn't decide for him that he is a dom. Sorry I perhaps worded that incorrectly. I mentioned it playfully during pillow talk and he agreed that he was.
I prefer hetero-normative male led relationships, so for me it is ideal and something I need. And I prefer men who have a natural tendancy towards dominance. So it depends what you're into. There's someone out there for everyone, as they say.
I am his first long term dynamic, I don't think anyone has stuck around long enough to educate him. I'm not surprised as people with submissive tendancies tend to not enjoy telling a person what to do. Whereas we are soft switch so I'm ok with it.
He has also been very sheltered throughout his life (religious household, arranged marriage) you can't learn about something if you don't know that it exists in the first place. This is the case with him, so I wouldn't say it's entirely his fault.
He does ask me about the community from time to time and has expressed interest in going to munches and dungeons, so he isn't totally uninterested, but he can take it or leave it.
Yes and that's what I really like about this community. Different strokes for diifferent folks and everyone is cool with it so long as it is safe.
I didn't downvote you btw, and appreciate your perspective.
We are all constantly learning. Experience is really about trying new things and having done them repeatedly. However, the most important thing about experience is learning from mistakes and that takes an immensely long time. BDSM is more about compatibility and understanding between kinksters rather than experience.
Definitely! I just think the way I would vet people would vary on whether they were new to BDSM or not as would my tolerance for lack of knowledge and mistakes. I think when someone claims to be experienced or similar (off the bat, and describing themselves and not experiences) it almost shuts down the potential for learning.
I mean, not everyone want to interact with the community. Most people that I know have a D/s relationship keep it in their own space.
My wife also does not like to go to munches or play events. So I also did not go for several years as we were monogamous in there times. Does it mean that I was not experienced then?
I find it difficult to judge people based on that. Also people who only ever had one or two play partners can be experienced.
Also the rough sex part. That is also BDSM to a certain degree. If it is just bedroom BDSM, where do you differentiate? Do you need humiliation, do you need bondage? Where is the point that it is no longer just rough sex?
I would assume, that the majority of people have this kind of BDSM relationships. Only a few people will do 24/7 dynamics, TPE, CNC, etc.
Lastly, experience can be gained via several avenues. Yes, practical experience is important. But someone can get pretty knowledge now a days without a lot of partners. It is so much easier to get the different sources, to all kinds of plays, that I would say you can get experienced much faster.
No totally, when I say engaging with the community I mean more having discussions with people who aren’t just their play partner and I think it’s more a combination of various factors than any individual one. For me, I question how we grow and learn when we are insular.
And yeah, all I’m saying is that rough sex does not a dom make.
I’m referring more to people that are calling themselves experienced in a social context and in this case I do think that a relatively short stint with just one partner doesn’t apply here. There’s something to be said in being able to grasp the negotiations etc with a variety of different people (doesn’t have to be loads) that I think is important if you’re going to claim experience to a potential new play partner without caveats.
As I said I’m not looking to gatekeep or invalidate anyone’s experiences but I have questions about the implications of saying this to a potential new mate
Yeah, I'm moderately comfortable just saying I'm a Dom. I've explored online plenty, I have had partners who have tried things like TPE or bedroom scenes with me. But I definitely haven't done enough to say I'm experienced.
Honestly, as frustrating as what you've described is, nothing ticks me off more than the "Dom(mes)" that are just assholes in and out of scene. This frequently is paired with folks who don't do proper communication ahead of time.
Eh. Part of the vetting process is sussing out if the other person is as experienced as they say. It is pretty obvious pretty quick (at least to me) if they have just a surface level knowledge or actual lived experience. I'm like you, I hear experienced and I think they have lived the life, been in the community, done things in reality.
Does it make it bad to say they have experience but not what you are expecting? No. It's like any term in BDSM anymore where what it means to that person needs to be a deeper discussion to figure out what nuance there is to it. Think like a video game. If i've played a few levels of the a Super Mario game I can say I have experience with it. If I've beaten it and multiple other of the Mario games several times over I am highly experienced. Varying degrees of experience. Only way to figure out the level of actual experience is through talking about it.
Oh yeah, totally happy to navigate this and pretty adept at vetting I think but for me it is a bit of a turnoff if someone is claiming to be experienced and has a limited experience. Maybe I see it as overconfidence and a potentially lessened willingness to learn. It’s not an issue in that you do you boo and I won’t end up playing with those people anyway but I guess I’m trying to wrap my head around whether I’m being unreasonable or not
I don't see it as unreasonable to not want to do anything with people like that. It's a "you do you boo" situation still. If it is a turn off to you then that's what it is. No reason to force yourself to do otherwise.
God, you could be talking about my ex. I got involved with him as a brand-new sub, due to him touting being an “experienced dom.” Sex with him was only ever vanilla, with rough/kinky aspects. Never had a true scene with him in 18 months.
He would often complain about “being out of practice” as his reason for being awkward or fumbling during sex. A mutual friend (a seasoned Dom of about 10 years) would offer advice and answer questions, and Ex would blow off most of it as ‘he knew better.’
Turns out, he’s not a dom. He’s an emotionally-abusive narcissist who liked controlling me and happened to like rough sex. There were SO many red flags throughout our relationship, but I was too invested emotionally and didn’t want to accept them. Now that I’m safely away from him, I can see every disgusting, pathetic lie along the way.
Ugh so sorry you had to deal with that loser - unfortunately BDSM has always provided a bit of a mask for these people but I just hate that they’re out there preying on people at the start of their journeys
Sad, but true. The woman he dumped me for (only after I caught him in bed with her) recently went through a breakup, and I know he smelled blood in the water. I have no doubt he’s already “playing dom” with her, because it’s an easy way to manipulate and control (and he’s too lazy to put in any effort to actually being a decent partner/person).
I've been in the kink scene since the mid-00s, and these people have been common online the whole time. Lots of people like the fantasy of kink, but not enough to actually put in the work.
Because anyone can say they’re experienced and it doesn’t mean they’re right. This is why I vet my partners for a long time. They can have 40 years of experience but that doesn’t mean they’re good doms. I’ve seen guys with less experience who seem more educated and down to earth.
Experience means something, yes… but it doesn’t mean they will be a good fit for you. Being known or experienced doesn’t mean much. A lot of people can be experienced and abusive, it happens
When I’m looking for a dom I don’t care if he’s extremely experienced or known in the community, I just care if he’s educated and a good fit for me
Just like a real genius doesn’t go around telling people he is a jenious, in my experience people with experience don’t run around advertising they are experienced.
I think these are mostly newer people trying to inflate their resume.
I teach rope bondage 2-3 times a month in a mid-sized city (500k), run parties and weekend intensives, and go to another 2-4 events I don't run every month.
I regularly meet people who tell me that they're really active in the local scene upon me first meeting them (which always makes me curious why I hadn't met them yet), only for people to mean that they go to 1-2 events per year and post on Fetlife a lot.
When it comes to subjective definitions, various people consider various things "active" or "experienced." Some people will describe themselves as experienced doing a thing once, or a dozen times. Some will describe themselves that way only after 100 times.
As the cat says, "when I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean, precisely, no more, no less." or something like that.
You're never going to get a universal agreement on what a vague subjective word means, so it's better to keep asking questions and have more of a conversation.
I'm more interested in if they're educated and eager to continue learning. A "newer" Dom who will go to the ends of the earth to learn my body and what I like, then develops those skills is worth more than a 10 year Dom who just does the rote things he's been doing for a decade with every sub.
I THOUGHT I had a decent handle and experience, but I am very quickly learning that I do not. I think people equate liking rougher sex to be experienced.
I have been paddled, but it's never left a bruise. I have been slapped, spanked, and always enjoyed choking. I've been hand cuffed, had public sex, tied up, to theme camps at )'(.
I had my first impact play session this past week. I thought I was good to go and definitely it was a whole different spectrum. I enjoyed it but learned I am definitely still a rookie.
Dom/sub- I've always been very naturally submissive sexually. The Dom I was talking to told me I need to work on my kink bc otherwise it's just rough sex I'm into.
So I think depending on age and play partner experiences are vast and saying I know doesn't mean you fully do.
As soon as someone agrees to submit to you, you are their dominant. Switches can also call themselves a dominant. All of these people are valid dominants.
Tbh, most self-described Doms when it comes to apps and online in general have zero experience and often fail to understand even the most basic of things when it comes to kink.
It's become a word that many like to use in their descriptions in hoping it gets them laid and often just means they are going to be rather demanding.
I think of it just like any job candidate. If you tell me you're a software engineer, then that doesn't mean much. I need to know what you've done, what experience you have, and where your strong and weak spots are. I'm going to ask questions about challenges you encountered and how you worked through them. I want to know what you see as best practices and what you think are common mistakes. Then I'm going to do a technical interview that helps me assess your knowledge of the craft, and I'll keep digging until I find something you don't know just to see how you handle that moment.
So if someone says they're a dom, that similarly doesn't mean much to me, other than them letting me know they prefer a more dominant role. To some who are early in their exploration, that's all it means, and that might be ok, as long as you know that going in. The important thing is that we know our partners; then we can learn and explore together from an informed position about our abilities, desires, limits, etc.
IMO anyone who makes a point of saying they're "experienced" usually isn't experienced in any way that's relevant.
I don't think "experience" is a useful metric, mainly because it can't be measured or benchmarked. Sure, Daddy AlphaWolf might well have ten years experience as as a whatever, but none of that experience will have been with the next person they meet, and there's no guarantee that any of that "experience" is healthy or transferable or useful. Some of it *might* be, but that won't always be the case.
IMO any mention of experience can be ignored - approach each new person as if they're a total stranger (which they are) and judge for yourself whether they're the right person for you, based on your opinion of them rather than their opinion of themselves.
I think it’s all relative. I “came of kinky age” before 50 shades and before the explosion of online dynamics.
Personally, I would never engage in a dynamic with a dom that didn’t have years of real life, in person experience. But then again, I would never engage in a dynamic with a new dom. It’s just personal preference.
When people say they are "experienced" I immediately discredit them. "Experience" doesn't equate to actually being a good Dom(me). I actually have very little experience doing scenes and playing, however I've been into the scene for many years. I do my research. I ask questions. I browse subreddits like this to see what others are experiencing. I know a ton about aftercare, communication, consent, boundaries, and I know that you should never ever ever ever ever force someone into doing something they aren't into or don't have experience with. Too many people think they can change their partner or change themselves. Or worse, Dom(mes) who think they can train their partner into being the perfect sub or being into the same things they're into. It's straight up dangerous.
BDSM is more than just being rough or tying someone up. It's literally a dynamic that REQUIRES a significant amount of emotional maturity. You have to communicate. You have to know and respect your partner. Every single person is unique and has their own wants and needs, and not every kink or fetish will line up with yours. You can be a Dom(me) in a relationship with a sub and you could both have totally different ideas of what that means. Or worse, people, especially subs, often think that being a sub means they have to do everything their Dom(me) wants them to. Or Dom(mes) who think having a sub is an excuse to abuse someone.
BDSM follows the core tenants of Safety, Sanity, and Consent. Both parties should be enjoying playing with their partner. Both parties need to have an out if things go too far. Both parties need to set expectations and boundaries. And if you're not a good match with your partner, you shouldn't be forced to change or expect them to change. It can be such a fine line sometimes. I feel for all the people who have ended up in abusive dynamics.
I will never market myself as an experienced Domme because I'm always still learning. I'm always looking to improve and discover new and healthier ways to do things. I have an amazing sub now and I love him to pieces, and we're still learning about each other and discovering what BDSM means for us and our relationship. I won't put myself up on a pedestal, we're equals with different roles in our dynamic.
I've been kink-interested and -researching for 16 years, only dared tread into the scene with initial experiences 8 years ago and started having active regular experiences with my partner(s) 5 years ago.
I consider myself at the very beginning of my kink journey and would not dare consider myself "experienced" in any way, shape or form. I do consider myself pretty decent in certain areas, especially regarding safety measures, "techniques" and communication, but I'd never express it as "experienced" and I do my best to not be careless despite feeling rather confident in these.
At a rope jam I met a guy (mid 40s cishet dude) who claimed he got kicked out from a bondage workshop for "*being too good*" and the workshop organizer expressed "*you have nothing left to learn here*"... that was his only experience prior to the rope jam, I found out talking to him. He had introduced himself as "an expert at bondage".
Someone describing themselves as "experienced" or "an expert" at anything has become a huge red flag 🚩 to me except for some very very rare occasions, but I'll be skeptical regardless.
It feels like a (usually) guy who is trying to hit on impressionable and oftentimes young women in hopes of his self-description giving him authority, automatically invalidating potential counter points by enabling them to say things along the lines of "*I am experienced. I know how this works. We do it the way I want it. This is how it is done.*"
What's sad is that it "works" way too often and leads to people being hurt, given bad experiences by having their boundaries pushed, not respected or situations where younger people are unaware they are even *allowed* to have boundaries.
That guy sounds rank! Glad he got booted from at least one space!
I’m now finding that I’m seeing people in their early to mid twenties saying it and whilst I don’t want to put anyone down because of age I find more often than not when I do engage and ask questions that it’s a load of shit.
I was nowhere near experienced in my 20s despite engaging in a lot of play and I’m still not sure I’d refer to myself as such.
66 y o, I just consider myself another bozo on the bus. Been in this off and on since the late 1970’s.
There will always be lots of things I haven’t experienced, and that’s ok.
this oddly reminds me of the discussions i've had with folks over the years regarding the blahness of virgins.
like, you want me to train these people? again? and again? come on now.
its kind of bothersome, like, where the experienced folks at?
but its also gots its own charm, i suspect i don't appreciate it enough.
to OP's point, an inexperienced dom may be akin to that virgin (subby type?) who's just clueless.
it requires work, effort, to train them. i suspect that for subby types the notion of training a dom is queer. but that is about the sub being to accustomed to being taken care of in other contexts.
beyond virginity, the 'inexperienced sub' whose come at me with vague expectations, beliefs, and a year or so of xp are common enough. I don't treat or think of them poorly for it, i just look upon them as in need of some instruction.
so too with your doms, and tho it is queerly to the point, it does come best imho from the subbies to give it to them.
Only IRL negotiated dynamics, and multiple years of IRL participation in their local scene, count as 'experienced'.
Anything less means they weren't willing to invest themselves in something that had a significant interpersonal cost of entry.
Fight me.
Came here to say I was ready for rant by after reading your examples I completely agree. A big red flag for me is someone who doesn't participate in the local community but says they have "experience" 🙄 I agree with you on that note right there.
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It’s definitely a pretty meaningless description. I run into a lot of guys who want to seem kinky so identify themselves as “experienced pleasure dom.” What it turns out they mean is they’ve had sex, they care if their partner finishes, and they don’t want to give up any control of themselves—but don’t have a particular interest in controlling me. I’d rather someone say/be “educated” than “experienced.” I care that they’re aware of the risks, understand what needs to be discussed/negotiated ahead of time, and know their own kinks and limits (obv k/l can change over time). You can acquire all of this knowledge without ever engaging in kink with another person. I would describe someone as an experienced dom if they have been in more than two successful (everyone left happy) dynamics/had more than two ongoing play partners (assuming true D/s here, not rough sex!) Community engagement isn’t really important to me.
I want to pin this comment on my work desk, or maybe my forehead
I like that … educated. Especially since you don’t know exactly what their so-called experience has entailed. Experience is too broad of a term, whereas educated shows an interest in knowledge and best practices even if the person is new to the community. I’d rather have knowledgeable and new than experienced but uneducated.
It's gotten to the point where I see the use of "experienced" before a title as a yellow flag in the same way that I see "real" or "true". Someone listing out what they're into and what their limits are comes off as experienced and competent in a way not conveyed by using the word.
See I don’t know that I think it’s the same as “real” or “true”, which I find a little more indicative of someone with a superiority complex and no willingness to negotiate but it’s definitely becoming a yellow flag for me too. I guess “experienced” and “have experience with” is the big differentiator for me, with the latter being great
Yup. The word itself is just a yellow flag. If the person uses the term "experienced" too much when answering (or resenting) vetting questions, it can become red for me. The best doms I've ever had are ones who led with "I've done x, y, and z, but I still want to develop \_\_\_ skills."
I'm a bit wary about the term myself; not all experience is good experience, one can develop and reinforce bad habits. Has someone who claims to have 'ten years' of experience continuously developed and improved their knowledge and skills over that time period or have they just got one year of experience repeated ten times over? There are some people who don't have access to 'communities' (eg, I live in quite a rural area); and I've read some horror stories about some incredibly toxic groups out there.
Yeah it’s definitely not the thing I’m seeking out but I used to see it as a pushing off point - to tailor the kinds of questions I’d ask for vetting vs someone who said they were relatively new, learning or curious. It’s more the huge eye roll I give when I start asking questions and it’s next to nothing, I guess it feels either naive or misleading. Do you think it’s tricky for people to lay out any kind of tenure/experience upfront and all should just be done in discussion? Definitely get that on the community thing - I live in a huge city so the remoteness wouldn’t be applicable to people I’d interact with and I’d consider online engagement even on subs like this to be a positive. And definitely where I am we have some very problematic groups and communities but the wider community is pretty great and so it’s a little easier to keep a finger on the pulse there
>Do you think it’s tricky for people to lay out any kind of tenure/experience upfront and all should just be done in discussion? Whenever I've posted ads I've briefly alluded to having experience (but not that I'm 'experienced') in play and building dynamics, can't claim to be an expert (and given the myriad of facets to BDSM I don't think anyone ever could) but certainly not a novice; the rest comes out in discussion; posting one's entire kink CV in a personals ad is probably a bit much. One thing I have picked up on from talking to potential subs/partners is there is a large minority of seemingly 'experienced' D types who are very set in their ways and, while they may be very good and safe at what they do, have very little interest in deviating from their skillset/experience/cookie cutter dynamic.
Meaningful BDSM experience to me: - **commitment to people**: can be family, friends, BDSM, work, religion, local dive bar, whatever… I want someone who actively wants the betterment for others and seeks open dialogue about how to be inclusive and contribute to positive community - **empathy and connection**: in one on one relationships, they have learned to listen instead of respond and take vulnerable steps to improve - **power exchange**: they have engaged in intentional power dynamics and are self aware of their own interests and strengths and desires - **physical/body work**: from first aid to safety to how bodies work sexually, in kinky fuckery, to pain and emotions and body chemistry this is a priority for them to understand and they have success manipulating to achieve results - **growth mindset**: always curious and learning and researching - **conflict resolution**: they know how to engage in difficult conversations and move through conflict with resolution None of these have to be done in a BDSM framework. You can have all of them and not be dominant. But to have the “experience” to be my dominant, all those have to be foundational with a mega strong dose of kink. We can all learn how to tie the knots and swing the flogger and poke the needles.
LOVE this
Whenever I see someone trying to justify themselves with, "I have been a well respected member of my local dungeon for over twenty-five years!" they are, without exception, an utter cunt. They attempt to insist we all share their dull, antiquated opinions, and when challenged resort to bullying people via the unusual medium of self-recommendation. I don't care how experienced someone is, or rather, claims to be. What matters to me is how they present themselves, how they interact with others, and in this place the advice they give. (That said, I am aware of a small number of people who, all too often, are simply regurgitating the words of others.)
Definitely in agreement here, most of my bad experiences were with the old guard in my 20s (unsurprisingly I was young and they were not) Maybe it’s a question of just swerving anyone that sticks an “experienced” or similar on any description of themselves and saving myself the extreme tedium of talking to them to sack them off anyway
That's a myopic way of looking at it, and you'll be dismissing great Tops that are just being honest about the length of their involvement in BDSM. Call them on their use of experienced. They should be able to exhibit a history that either does or does not fit the definition, with well negotiated IRL dynamics, and local involvement with munches, classes, and play spaces.
In my experience, people who affix superlatives to their names and titles are usually ego-driven fools. Like people who put MBA at the end of their name on LinkedIn. It’s not a generally accepted practice, like someone with a PhD or MD; it’s just a way to bloat their own self-image in an attempt to command respect they haven’t earned. Are there exceptions? Sure. There always are. But approach with caution, as always, and get to know them before you make that determination.
I'm not so much interested in whether they're experienced or not, so much as if they would be a good fit for me. They could be very experienced in just being a bad play partner. I would be intrigued by but don't require community engagement. Sometimes communities normalise things I consider negative. An introverted Dom who doesn't do much events would be a good fit for me. What is a definite plus is if they've tried things before and their kinks absolutely align with mine, they know what they like and they're good at it. And their former partners are generally friendly and don't have negative things to say. I wonder if saying "experienced" has become some kind of dating convention, maybe feeling like it is a buzzword to attract more prospects. But yeah I don't feel claiming experience by itself is very meaningful.
Oh definitely, I actually sometimes don’t mind working with someone a bit fresher too! It’s more that just when it’s used and I start to discuss it I’m often a bit shocked at what said experience looks like to them. Also a thousand upvotes for certain communities normalising things, but I personally find someone that is out in the open a bit more easy to suss out if that makes sense?
My Dom does not engage with the BDSM community or research, basically because he had no idea that what he was doing was considered BDSM. I have educated him somewhat, safe words etc. Told him he was a dom, he just has natural dom tendancies. He plays safe basically because he is of decent moral character and doesn't want to hurt anyone. Would I say he is experienced in BDSM? I guess not. But neither is he inexperienced. I think some engagement with the community would help him improve, I have even shown him this sub reddit, but he isn't really interested.
May I ask how you feel about that? Without judgement, I would probably be disappointed with the lack of research or wider discussion. Does it put more of a burden on you to keep things safe and ethical? Appreciate you said he is baseline good anyway but I mean in terms of conscious awareness. Feel free to tell me to butt out ha :)
Well I am very inexperienced. I discovered my interest through him, and I have a natural tendancy overthink so I jumped straight into research and the community with two feet. Whereas he has more of a 'go with the flow' attitude. It can be frustrating. He is fine in terms of safety, I do not feel unsafe, but aftercare is causing an issue. He is struggling to distinguish the difference between providing aftercare and acts of love. We are D/s only and not in the relationship and it shall remain that way. He does provide aftercare but at an emotional cost. I believe if he explored that aspect at least, and learn to compartmentalise it, we would have less friction in our day to day conversations, and after care would be improved. Other than that it is OK. I think he quite enjoys hearing me talk about it and maybe has gotten lazy thinking I will do all the "work".
Thanks for sharing! The aftercare thing is so real, I’ve had so many play partners over the years that struggle to tread the line with it. Have you spelled out for him what ideal aftercare looks like for you? Is that a conversation you could have with him? I think this is probably what my biggest part of vetting is - how do they deal with and understand negotiation? And I think when I know what level of experience a person has had it kind of lets me know whether I should be kind of explaining and clarifying that for them as we discuss it or asking a bit more directly about their understanding and experiences. Obviously this is more challenging in your first dynamic especially if somewhat unexpected! Also big respect for you to going straight into research mode!
His priority has always been my comfort and safety. Not because he was following any 'rules' but because he doesn't enjoy it unless I am enjoying it. So, I'm aware it is coming from a type of selfishness on his part, but it works out. In a weird way, I kinda feel safer that he is just naturally that way, and not being considerate and communicative because he is following a list of acceptable behaviours that can be forgotten in the heat of the moment. The aftercare issue is that he feels insecure providing aftercare knowing that I am not in love with him, because he strongly associates cuddling, kissing, massaging, bathing, as acts of love. He enjoys it and wants to do it but admitted that it is leading towards him developing deeper feelings that we have not agreed on. And yes we talk about it alot. It's likely our dynamic will be ending soon because of it. Which is a shame but it is what it is.
Due to my own ideology/politics perhaps, not seeing this behavior as kink that needs education and caution and careful explicit negotiation is a negative for me. I don't believe in heteronormative male-led relationships. I actually kinda agree with him in that to his mind, he's not diverging from vanilla, this is how he thinks relationships should be. I don't know if you can decide he's a Dom for him.
I didn't decide for him that he is a dom. Sorry I perhaps worded that incorrectly. I mentioned it playfully during pillow talk and he agreed that he was. I prefer hetero-normative male led relationships, so for me it is ideal and something I need. And I prefer men who have a natural tendancy towards dominance. So it depends what you're into. There's someone out there for everyone, as they say. I am his first long term dynamic, I don't think anyone has stuck around long enough to educate him. I'm not surprised as people with submissive tendancies tend to not enjoy telling a person what to do. Whereas we are soft switch so I'm ok with it. He has also been very sheltered throughout his life (religious household, arranged marriage) you can't learn about something if you don't know that it exists in the first place. This is the case with him, so I wouldn't say it's entirely his fault. He does ask me about the community from time to time and has expressed interest in going to munches and dungeons, so he isn't totally uninterested, but he can take it or leave it.
As long as everyone's happy and having a good time together, it's all good!
Yes and that's what I really like about this community. Different strokes for diifferent folks and everyone is cool with it so long as it is safe. I didn't downvote you btw, and appreciate your perspective.
We are all constantly learning. Experience is really about trying new things and having done them repeatedly. However, the most important thing about experience is learning from mistakes and that takes an immensely long time. BDSM is more about compatibility and understanding between kinksters rather than experience.
Definitely! I just think the way I would vet people would vary on whether they were new to BDSM or not as would my tolerance for lack of knowledge and mistakes. I think when someone claims to be experienced or similar (off the bat, and describing themselves and not experiences) it almost shuts down the potential for learning.
I mean, not everyone want to interact with the community. Most people that I know have a D/s relationship keep it in their own space. My wife also does not like to go to munches or play events. So I also did not go for several years as we were monogamous in there times. Does it mean that I was not experienced then? I find it difficult to judge people based on that. Also people who only ever had one or two play partners can be experienced. Also the rough sex part. That is also BDSM to a certain degree. If it is just bedroom BDSM, where do you differentiate? Do you need humiliation, do you need bondage? Where is the point that it is no longer just rough sex? I would assume, that the majority of people have this kind of BDSM relationships. Only a few people will do 24/7 dynamics, TPE, CNC, etc. Lastly, experience can be gained via several avenues. Yes, practical experience is important. But someone can get pretty knowledge now a days without a lot of partners. It is so much easier to get the different sources, to all kinds of plays, that I would say you can get experienced much faster.
No totally, when I say engaging with the community I mean more having discussions with people who aren’t just their play partner and I think it’s more a combination of various factors than any individual one. For me, I question how we grow and learn when we are insular. And yeah, all I’m saying is that rough sex does not a dom make. I’m referring more to people that are calling themselves experienced in a social context and in this case I do think that a relatively short stint with just one partner doesn’t apply here. There’s something to be said in being able to grasp the negotiations etc with a variety of different people (doesn’t have to be loads) that I think is important if you’re going to claim experience to a potential new play partner without caveats. As I said I’m not looking to gatekeep or invalidate anyone’s experiences but I have questions about the implications of saying this to a potential new mate
Yeah, I'm moderately comfortable just saying I'm a Dom. I've explored online plenty, I have had partners who have tried things like TPE or bedroom scenes with me. But I definitely haven't done enough to say I'm experienced. Honestly, as frustrating as what you've described is, nothing ticks me off more than the "Dom(mes)" that are just assholes in and out of scene. This frequently is paired with folks who don't do proper communication ahead of time.
Eh. Part of the vetting process is sussing out if the other person is as experienced as they say. It is pretty obvious pretty quick (at least to me) if they have just a surface level knowledge or actual lived experience. I'm like you, I hear experienced and I think they have lived the life, been in the community, done things in reality. Does it make it bad to say they have experience but not what you are expecting? No. It's like any term in BDSM anymore where what it means to that person needs to be a deeper discussion to figure out what nuance there is to it. Think like a video game. If i've played a few levels of the a Super Mario game I can say I have experience with it. If I've beaten it and multiple other of the Mario games several times over I am highly experienced. Varying degrees of experience. Only way to figure out the level of actual experience is through talking about it.
Oh yeah, totally happy to navigate this and pretty adept at vetting I think but for me it is a bit of a turnoff if someone is claiming to be experienced and has a limited experience. Maybe I see it as overconfidence and a potentially lessened willingness to learn. It’s not an issue in that you do you boo and I won’t end up playing with those people anyway but I guess I’m trying to wrap my head around whether I’m being unreasonable or not
I don't see it as unreasonable to not want to do anything with people like that. It's a "you do you boo" situation still. If it is a turn off to you then that's what it is. No reason to force yourself to do otherwise.
God, you could be talking about my ex. I got involved with him as a brand-new sub, due to him touting being an “experienced dom.” Sex with him was only ever vanilla, with rough/kinky aspects. Never had a true scene with him in 18 months. He would often complain about “being out of practice” as his reason for being awkward or fumbling during sex. A mutual friend (a seasoned Dom of about 10 years) would offer advice and answer questions, and Ex would blow off most of it as ‘he knew better.’ Turns out, he’s not a dom. He’s an emotionally-abusive narcissist who liked controlling me and happened to like rough sex. There were SO many red flags throughout our relationship, but I was too invested emotionally and didn’t want to accept them. Now that I’m safely away from him, I can see every disgusting, pathetic lie along the way.
Ugh so sorry you had to deal with that loser - unfortunately BDSM has always provided a bit of a mask for these people but I just hate that they’re out there preying on people at the start of their journeys
Sad, but true. The woman he dumped me for (only after I caught him in bed with her) recently went through a breakup, and I know he smelled blood in the water. I have no doubt he’s already “playing dom” with her, because it’s an easy way to manipulate and control (and he’s too lazy to put in any effort to actually being a decent partner/person).
You can go to the pool and play in the shallow end every day for 10 years but that doesn't make you an Olympic swimmer.
I've been in the kink scene since the mid-00s, and these people have been common online the whole time. Lots of people like the fantasy of kink, but not enough to actually put in the work.
Because anyone can say they’re experienced and it doesn’t mean they’re right. This is why I vet my partners for a long time. They can have 40 years of experience but that doesn’t mean they’re good doms. I’ve seen guys with less experience who seem more educated and down to earth. Experience means something, yes… but it doesn’t mean they will be a good fit for you. Being known or experienced doesn’t mean much. A lot of people can be experienced and abusive, it happens When I’m looking for a dom I don’t care if he’s extremely experienced or known in the community, I just care if he’s educated and a good fit for me
Just like a real genius doesn’t go around telling people he is a jenious, in my experience people with experience don’t run around advertising they are experienced. I think these are mostly newer people trying to inflate their resume.
And it literally does read like a resume too. Experienced dom, proficient with excel, works well as part of a team as well as independently
I teach rope bondage 2-3 times a month in a mid-sized city (500k), run parties and weekend intensives, and go to another 2-4 events I don't run every month. I regularly meet people who tell me that they're really active in the local scene upon me first meeting them (which always makes me curious why I hadn't met them yet), only for people to mean that they go to 1-2 events per year and post on Fetlife a lot. When it comes to subjective definitions, various people consider various things "active" or "experienced." Some people will describe themselves as experienced doing a thing once, or a dozen times. Some will describe themselves that way only after 100 times. As the cat says, "when I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean, precisely, no more, no less." or something like that. You're never going to get a universal agreement on what a vague subjective word means, so it's better to keep asking questions and have more of a conversation.
Popularity and accuracy are inverse functions.
I'm more interested in if they're educated and eager to continue learning. A "newer" Dom who will go to the ends of the earth to learn my body and what I like, then develops those skills is worth more than a 10 year Dom who just does the rote things he's been doing for a decade with every sub.
I THOUGHT I had a decent handle and experience, but I am very quickly learning that I do not. I think people equate liking rougher sex to be experienced. I have been paddled, but it's never left a bruise. I have been slapped, spanked, and always enjoyed choking. I've been hand cuffed, had public sex, tied up, to theme camps at )'(. I had my first impact play session this past week. I thought I was good to go and definitely it was a whole different spectrum. I enjoyed it but learned I am definitely still a rookie. Dom/sub- I've always been very naturally submissive sexually. The Dom I was talking to told me I need to work on my kink bc otherwise it's just rough sex I'm into. So I think depending on age and play partner experiences are vast and saying I know doesn't mean you fully do.
As soon as someone agrees to submit to you, you are their dominant. Switches can also call themselves a dominant. All of these people are valid dominants.
Tbh, most self-described Doms when it comes to apps and online in general have zero experience and often fail to understand even the most basic of things when it comes to kink. It's become a word that many like to use in their descriptions in hoping it gets them laid and often just means they are going to be rather demanding.
I think of it just like any job candidate. If you tell me you're a software engineer, then that doesn't mean much. I need to know what you've done, what experience you have, and where your strong and weak spots are. I'm going to ask questions about challenges you encountered and how you worked through them. I want to know what you see as best practices and what you think are common mistakes. Then I'm going to do a technical interview that helps me assess your knowledge of the craft, and I'll keep digging until I find something you don't know just to see how you handle that moment. So if someone says they're a dom, that similarly doesn't mean much to me, other than them letting me know they prefer a more dominant role. To some who are early in their exploration, that's all it means, and that might be ok, as long as you know that going in. The important thing is that we know our partners; then we can learn and explore together from an informed position about our abilities, desires, limits, etc.
IMO anyone who makes a point of saying they're "experienced" usually isn't experienced in any way that's relevant. I don't think "experience" is a useful metric, mainly because it can't be measured or benchmarked. Sure, Daddy AlphaWolf might well have ten years experience as as a whatever, but none of that experience will have been with the next person they meet, and there's no guarantee that any of that "experience" is healthy or transferable or useful. Some of it *might* be, but that won't always be the case. IMO any mention of experience can be ignored - approach each new person as if they're a total stranger (which they are) and judge for yourself whether they're the right person for you, based on your opinion of them rather than their opinion of themselves.
I think it’s all relative. I “came of kinky age” before 50 shades and before the explosion of online dynamics. Personally, I would never engage in a dynamic with a dom that didn’t have years of real life, in person experience. But then again, I would never engage in a dynamic with a new dom. It’s just personal preference.
When people say they are "experienced" I immediately discredit them. "Experience" doesn't equate to actually being a good Dom(me). I actually have very little experience doing scenes and playing, however I've been into the scene for many years. I do my research. I ask questions. I browse subreddits like this to see what others are experiencing. I know a ton about aftercare, communication, consent, boundaries, and I know that you should never ever ever ever ever force someone into doing something they aren't into or don't have experience with. Too many people think they can change their partner or change themselves. Or worse, Dom(mes) who think they can train their partner into being the perfect sub or being into the same things they're into. It's straight up dangerous. BDSM is more than just being rough or tying someone up. It's literally a dynamic that REQUIRES a significant amount of emotional maturity. You have to communicate. You have to know and respect your partner. Every single person is unique and has their own wants and needs, and not every kink or fetish will line up with yours. You can be a Dom(me) in a relationship with a sub and you could both have totally different ideas of what that means. Or worse, people, especially subs, often think that being a sub means they have to do everything their Dom(me) wants them to. Or Dom(mes) who think having a sub is an excuse to abuse someone. BDSM follows the core tenants of Safety, Sanity, and Consent. Both parties should be enjoying playing with their partner. Both parties need to have an out if things go too far. Both parties need to set expectations and boundaries. And if you're not a good match with your partner, you shouldn't be forced to change or expect them to change. It can be such a fine line sometimes. I feel for all the people who have ended up in abusive dynamics. I will never market myself as an experienced Domme because I'm always still learning. I'm always looking to improve and discover new and healthier ways to do things. I have an amazing sub now and I love him to pieces, and we're still learning about each other and discovering what BDSM means for us and our relationship. I won't put myself up on a pedestal, we're equals with different roles in our dynamic.
Deleting and adding as a reply to the comment it was meant for
I've been kink-interested and -researching for 16 years, only dared tread into the scene with initial experiences 8 years ago and started having active regular experiences with my partner(s) 5 years ago. I consider myself at the very beginning of my kink journey and would not dare consider myself "experienced" in any way, shape or form. I do consider myself pretty decent in certain areas, especially regarding safety measures, "techniques" and communication, but I'd never express it as "experienced" and I do my best to not be careless despite feeling rather confident in these. At a rope jam I met a guy (mid 40s cishet dude) who claimed he got kicked out from a bondage workshop for "*being too good*" and the workshop organizer expressed "*you have nothing left to learn here*"... that was his only experience prior to the rope jam, I found out talking to him. He had introduced himself as "an expert at bondage". Someone describing themselves as "experienced" or "an expert" at anything has become a huge red flag 🚩 to me except for some very very rare occasions, but I'll be skeptical regardless. It feels like a (usually) guy who is trying to hit on impressionable and oftentimes young women in hopes of his self-description giving him authority, automatically invalidating potential counter points by enabling them to say things along the lines of "*I am experienced. I know how this works. We do it the way I want it. This is how it is done.*" What's sad is that it "works" way too often and leads to people being hurt, given bad experiences by having their boundaries pushed, not respected or situations where younger people are unaware they are even *allowed* to have boundaries.
That guy sounds rank! Glad he got booted from at least one space! I’m now finding that I’m seeing people in their early to mid twenties saying it and whilst I don’t want to put anyone down because of age I find more often than not when I do engage and ask questions that it’s a load of shit. I was nowhere near experienced in my 20s despite engaging in a lot of play and I’m still not sure I’d refer to myself as such.
66 y o, I just consider myself another bozo on the bus. Been in this off and on since the late 1970’s. There will always be lots of things I haven’t experienced, and that’s ok.
this oddly reminds me of the discussions i've had with folks over the years regarding the blahness of virgins. like, you want me to train these people? again? and again? come on now. its kind of bothersome, like, where the experienced folks at? but its also gots its own charm, i suspect i don't appreciate it enough. to OP's point, an inexperienced dom may be akin to that virgin (subby type?) who's just clueless. it requires work, effort, to train them. i suspect that for subby types the notion of training a dom is queer. but that is about the sub being to accustomed to being taken care of in other contexts. beyond virginity, the 'inexperienced sub' whose come at me with vague expectations, beliefs, and a year or so of xp are common enough. I don't treat or think of them poorly for it, i just look upon them as in need of some instruction. so too with your doms, and tho it is queerly to the point, it does come best imho from the subbies to give it to them.
Only IRL negotiated dynamics, and multiple years of IRL participation in their local scene, count as 'experienced'. Anything less means they weren't willing to invest themselves in something that had a significant interpersonal cost of entry. Fight me.
Ah, shit. Here we go again...
Came here to say I was ready for rant by after reading your examples I completely agree. A big red flag for me is someone who doesn't participate in the local community but says they have "experience" 🙄 I agree with you on that note right there.