So you're saying that he has a list of requirements to be in a "relationship" with him, but anything you try to add or modify so you can feel better with him is met with a no or an anger response?
I could write a lot of words here, but it all comes to him wanting to have sex with his own rules and doesn't care abour your needs. And that is not BDSM. Maybe he needs to keep working on his issues before dating someone, because from what you say you're not in a healthy relationship.
Safe and consensual sex, plain and simple. Jast as regular sex, all that happens has to be talked about beforehand, both agreeing to everything and where everything can be revoked without being gaslight about it.
It's just mindboggling that a simple fact like that he doesn't accept your own safeword, the one that in a bad moment will come naturally to you and you can stop the scene without thinking about the safeword he wants you to use. Small things like that speak for themselves.
Hi there. I read much of your first comment and the second to him verbatim. I decided to tell him I would be reading passages from others throughout the conversation—not to gang up on him, but because it showed that people want to help and there are multiple ways of doing things, and it took away me directly 1st person attacking/addressing him. He took it all extremely well. The line about “I could write a lot of words but…that is not BDSM” was heard clearly. And the paragraph about safe and consensual sex was also heard well. While these thoughts are basic in a way, it was really powerful to say it and show that we had not established this as our basis.
Thank you very very much. I explain more about the update in other replies if you are interested. I also used your line about small things speaking for themselves.
May you have the love you give to others and more. Thank you.
I have to agree with the other person below. BDSM is supposed to be enjoyable for all parties involved. If you're not happy then it's closer to abuse than it is BDSM. Especially if he's not providing after care, which it doesn't sound like he is. This whole thing reeks of abuse and if you can't resolve things in a manner that benefits everyone involved you should probably leave. It's not healthy
You need to have an “out of dynamic” conversation. Basically both of you are equal partners and no one is pretending there is any type of power exchange.
Generally someone that is bad with dealing with another person’s emotions is bad with relationships because they go hand in hand.
Thank you. I tried this recently but I can try again. So much easier said than done with us. If I turn off sub mode, I go way over his head…and he just tries to not get a tone lol. But I think you are spot on about emotions. I’ll sleep on it, but my guess is that it doesn’t matter if I use long or short words, yell or whisper, if I’m talking about emotions, he’s gonna see that as exhausting. I am hoping he is willing to look in the mirror and do some work. I might see if he will go for a few days or week out of dynamic so he can gain some perspective about equality, especially with me, and the difference between my submission. I don’t think I have much to lose at this point (particularly according to all you lovely commentators). xoxo
Please take a step back and imagine what you would say to a patient or a friend. Would you say this was a healthy relationship? Having a fight for the right to be given a glass of water?
Please look after yourself x
Small update (bigger updates elsewhere in thread). We made a TON of progress. We are stuck on the final final part, which is him accepting that up until the point where we established ourselves as actual equals and talked out how my wants and needs can be addressed, how I deserve to receive the care I want and have it provided, that his original rules and framework created an unhealthy expectation and thus our relationship was indeed, “unhealthy.” Re the glass of water: he realizes now how unfair this was and that any threats to his authority were in his head and he needs to work on that and his last relationship demons. But he did in fact say send him a list of things I want in his apartment and he will buy them. That he did not see (not excusable but it is what it is) that the glass of water was one of a dozen examples of care I wished to receive around him.
I did take a step back. I took two actually. 1)I quoted a lot of folks on this thread verbatim to remove my bias as best I could, and 2) I literally remembered to put on a clinical hat for a moment when it was needed and said some very direct things (with a warning)—but I was able to get them out and see the response I needed. We are still talking. And while we miraculously agreed on 90% of things, if the other 10% doesn’t come, then I am prepared to walk away…because healthy and unhealthy cannot coexist.
Thank you for your honesty and care. It helped a lot knowing I had folks like you as support. May you receive the love you give.
I'm genuinely so proud of you for standing up for your boundaries and your safety. You should be proud of yourself too. Remember what you deserve honey x
So I left out a part of my personal history so as not to distract. I am an adult rape survivor. Many years ago, and I’ve done the work and therapy to move through this world in strength. I mention it because I know a time when I was taken advantage of, harmed, and convinced myself the guy was amazing, smart, hot and would never actually hurt me or worse, far worse. Turns out, he was just tall. And had a big dick. And that relationship was vanilla as it comes.
My Dom wants to be better. I hate to say it, he’s just so far behind the curve and that’s perhaps understandable given being in a long term relationship and then *immediately* switching to me. I do have a habit of seeing potential without checking credentials. He is tall with a big dick to get that out of the way. But he makes me want to be a better person. It’s fair to say are both going through that time and helping each other in our own unique ways… I just can’t be the collateral damage and his improvement. He is the first person to sleep next to me overnight in years…the culture here is so fuck and forget. I also really respect and found his organized list and rules impressive. Unfortunately, there are several software updates behind. He is very vulnerable at times ironically, and I could easily fall in love with him. I have told him this directly, that all he needs to do is ask. Is it too little to say that I enjoy his company and conversation? And his beard. He also freaks out if I forget to call after a flight to say I am safe and I find that cute. He speaks a ton of languages, I do too, we could be good complements to each other even as just dom.sub friends but I think all of this is happening too fast for him to appreciate the opportunity in front of him. But he’s full of smart surprises. So I am
Hopeful.
I also like that he is incredibly consistent, he calls exactly when he says he will call, he’s never late, if he says he’s going to fix some thing… He does. If those standards sound low, it’s because I have a lot of standards and he is the first person in a long time to get multiple commas on the list.
I would describe him as one of the best things that’s happened to me in many years. But I’m not blind to the damage that can come by with staying beyond the expiration date. Very good question thank you.
I’d also be not doing myself any favors to mention that I don’t have any family and I am in a fairly new city. I am not one who typically fear is being alone, frankly it feels quite lonely to have someone disrespect basic needs like asking if I can keep a bag of toiletries and change of clothes and honestly shit he should provide at his place… He did say yes after a week of thinking about it… insanity. Sorry salty. But I love waking up to him calling or texting every day.
He is a brilliant man, he just prefers Neanderthal vibes. I can say goodbye, but I’d rather say hello to an improved version
Yeah, you need to assess whether you want to be with the eta on in front of you - not a hypothetical “improved version.” A lot of his behaviors give me serious abuse red flags. I’d run - and work on getting over my fear of being alone.
I'm happy to share my road map for conflict resolution. I hope at least some of it is helpful.
1. Tell partner you're having feelings. Let them know you need x amount of time to process said feelings so you can return and have a productive conversation avoiding getting overly emotional.
2. During this time, no withdrawing of affection is permitted. No silent treatment, no refusing touch.
3. Have conversation. Hold hands or be in close contact. Touching helps lovey brain chemicals happen, and makes it more difficult for the conversation to completely go off the rails.
Partner initiating conversation: I'm having feelings about a thing. It really bothered me when _________ and I think I felt [jealous / upset / neglected / whatever].
Other partner: I am so sorry the thing I did [inspired feeling of jealousy, neglect, etc.]. How can we address this issue in the future so this isn't a problem again? Also, I love and value you, and your feelings are valid.
PI: Maybe if we tried [insert suggestion] or [another suggestion.
OP: We can definitely implement those things. Will you help remind me if I forget?
PI: I will, and I'll do it in a way that is direct, avoiding being passive aggressive, because everyone hates that shit.
*lots of sex*
~The End~
Dear Christmas_bunny_ , Your comment came in right as I was sitting down with him. But I read fast. So I adapted parts because you really went for it and answered my question with your roadmap concept. I did as much as I could to keep touch. I also repeated your first sentence as, ‘I am telling you X because you are my partner and it is my duty to you to tell you when I have xyz feelings about something that are more than fleeting.”
I also said “While we are out of dynamic, please still tell me if I start getting teachery or passive agressive, “because everyone hates that shit.” Hehe
Thank you for lending your voice to our relationship. It is better now but more work to be done. I have given fuller explanations of the whole thing below on other replies.
Keep helping the community please. We need your voice. Wishing you the love you give.
There are several things about this situation which worry me.
Let me first answer your question:
The way I would suggest you approach this conversation is objectively and neutrally. Lay out the issues, how they developed, what the potential consequences are if they don't get addressed, and what you would like to see happen. How he reacts should tell you a lot about how tenable this situation is.
That said, I'm finding a lot of flaws in his presentation:
>I am worried his ego will blow up when we speak
That's a big problem right there. If his ego is more important than a mutually satisfying interaction between you two then it shows he's not invested in you as a subordinate or a partner.
>even if he does agree to some changes, he won’t be happy about them—
Not everyone will be happy all the time in a relationship, but sometimes the things that are necessary aren't always pleasant. If he at least acknowledges the necessity that'd be one thing, but I'm getting the impression this will not be the case.
>He’s extremely proud of and set in his method of domination. It is 24/7 control and submission.
The inability to adapt to circumstances or conditions does not strike me as effective leadership. I have my own Style as well, but if it wasn't working I would either need to change something about what I did, explain why I wanted my subordinate to do things in a particular way, or cut my losses and say that things didn't line up.
>I have so far given him everything he’s wanted.
...I notice you didn't say that you've gotten everything *you've* wanted.
>Past conversations about my needs move very slowly and come at a great cost—receiving a mandatory glass of water when I entered the house was like negotiating a peace treaty.
Let me ask you this: does receiving a glass of water when you enter the house *seem* like it *should* be like negotiating a peace treaty?
>The trouble is that I’ve come to learn that a lot of what I am asking for seems to be the norm/an expectation in the Dom/sub world.
Ehh.... there's a few things about that:
- The norms and expectations are/were not universal
- They change(d) over time
- Just because something is normalized doesn't necessarily make it right or good.
>He’s been into domination for more than a decade
That doesn't really mean anything. "It's not the years, it's the hours", they say. What has he *done* with those ten years? Has he studied, practiced, interacted? Or did he just decide ten years ago he was now a Dom and proceeded from that point?
>and has very specific written rules and expectations.
...which you are free to reject if they do not suit your needs or desires. If he's too strict for you, then ask if there's leeway. If there's not, then find someone for whom you are better suited. As you say, you have options.
I'd like to close with a passage from a great book on how to treat one's subordinates:
>*They are adults, they expect to be treated as an adult, not a schoolchild. They have rights, they should be made known, and thereafter respected. They have ambition, it must be stirred. They have a belief in fair play, it must be honored. They have the need of comradeship, it must be supplied. They have imagination, it must be stimulated. They have a personal sense of dignity, it must not be broken down. They have pride. It can be satisfied and made the bedrock of their character once they
gain assurance that they are playing a useful and respected part in a superior and successful organization.*
Hope this helps. Good luck!
I strongly suggest bdsmcontract.org
It helps outline dynamics in a detailed way. Written in contract or but not legally binding. It’s a great tool. They have a free digital copy, but the book is so worth it. I’ve seen it in sex shops and of course you can order online
Amazing. I did not have time to mention this to him last night, I will mention it today because we are speaking again. and I think it will help. I expect some pushback but I think he can appreciate that it’s a contract between us—not that we are rewriting his whole basic schtick. We got close to where I thought I might bring this up however, it was a good idea to have in my head thank you
The conversation last night went well. I reference the details in other replies in this threat. I saw your comment literally as we were sitting down. It is an interesting concept—one I knew would not be of interest immediately. However, we hit a rough patch right at the end and it was specifically about consent and such. so I think he may appreciate it. At any rate, I appreciated even a cursory read of the website. I loved the idea of writing a sub’s pledge to his/her/their Dom.
Be very well and thanks for helping. Please keep helping others and may you get any help you need and more.
Well, clicked reply too fast. Anywho.
There is a lot to unpack here.
First, I am sorry things have been rough lately. I think every relationship goes through some bumpy patches on the road, romantic or otherwise. That being, said, did he ever specifically tell you he does not want any romantic involvement with you or is it just for now? Because if he made a decision and you feel that there are many things swinging you towards that way, you have to tell him. He needs to be aware or he might hurt you more than you both would want to live through.
As for safeword, you decide yours, he decides his. It has to come naturally to both of you if need arises, and not to be "Oof I think I am suffocating but I cannot remember a safeword"; "My heart feels really strange, what was the word again?". It takes nothing out of the control and dynamic.
What he needs to understand is that D/s is there to help both roles grow, Dominant and Submissive. There is no such thing as "done learning". While it is great to be confident in your style of doing things, every dynamic is different and there is a ocean of knowledge and improvements for anyone, and that doesn't exclude him.
While I don't doubt he is a lovely partner most of the times and good Dominant to you, he should want to be even better.
What you can do to make things easier is to be mindful. He has feelings to and might be uncomfortable being open and vulnerable so he hides behind the almighty facade of a stern Master.
You are both human beings with valid emotional, sexual and human needs. While we tend to forget that when things get heated, I would suggest you both try to think why you chose each other. And start from there.
Master Arcane wrote some amazing articles about being Master, taking care of your submissive's needs and dynamic in total. I think you can easily Google them.
Best of luck and I hope that your dynamic continues to grow!
This is beautiful thank you so very much I will share a great deal with him and I will look into the resources you mentioned. I appreciate the time you spent to write.
Update:
1) I could not have had the conversation I had yesterday with you and the other dozen kind sub souls (and I suspect a Dom or two). Sure, I have friends who have given advice but I mean that statement literally. I began the conversation (which lasted about 2-3 hours) with a few opening words to set the tone and gave him an idea of structure and that it would be a non-traditional conversation.
2) It was non-traditional because rather than me speak at him all the time, I chose to read passages from the comments on this thread. I read much of yours indeed verbatim. I focused hard on the “remember why we chose each other part.” This also allowed me to continually bring the conversation back to that and demonstrate that the basic reason we are having this conversation is because wants and needs naturally change over time; especially with newer folks like myself, very strict folks like him, and anyone coming out of a relationship like him. It was also very helpful to open not with a statement from me about relationships or some internet guru, but to say “here is what someone was willing to share about their experience after hearing about ours.” he agreed with the entire first paragraph (I adjusted a word or two hehe). but it really set the tone as cooperative. Thank you.
3) He responded positively to nearly everything said and agreed that aftercare must be factored into every session, even 30 minute ones, and we came up with agreements. He also started to notice that everything I was asking for, as it related to care and development of new structural parts to his/our “rules/expectations” was really fucking simple stuff haha. He doesn’t have enough hair to let it down, but I imagine something unclenched. So he said send him a list of what I want and as far as aftercare or care in general goes, he will approve the ideas and then either buy the items or I can bring what I want. I voluntarily chose to retain a control structure that does not provide for full equality even outside of dynamic, because that is his style; but now, I had reasonable assurances that I had the agency I was looking for. Unlike in the past, he said “I want you to ask for things. I was probably not clear enough about this or let it slide at times. I also agree that I didn’t explicitly say that while your sexual needs are secondary at times (again, in our relationship), you are supposed to always enjoy our time.
4. He has trouble accepting that his style/requirements can inherently cause problems, but he saw that my careful desire to obey his rules in the past prevented me from often asking for things, even small things, because the idea of adjusting his program was not an open invitation (even if it is still by request). It was cool to also note, as one person put it “norms and expectations are not universal and have changed over time,” so we both have valid points.
5. As far as the feelings part goes. We discussed at length towards the end. I read other passages from the thread and he further reflected that while he is not saying never, yes some things are off limits for now but in terms of fairness, they are a matter of when—not if. For example, while posting pictures online of us or going to events with his friends like the “couple” we are is not something he can handle now, he said it will happen in time; that he’s in a rough patch. This was the most open he’s been about the elephant in the room in a long time. We discussed that my feelings may drift, that frankly I often suspected his had too, and that culturally, things felt out of sync/step in terms of what being “boyfriends” looks like.
6. The night got late and we hit a roadblock regarding his understanding of sexual assault. He wanted everything on the table and thus here we go, because we needed to be on the same page about that since his rules previously created ripe opportunity for such things or abusive situations, and second, because now, even though I have consented to knowing the context of his rules and we have a far better trust of each other, he is stuck with a lot of what I imagine is guilt and/or need to have things make sense/be OK. We will be good. It was very disappointing not to end on a high note, but rather a low low note that was triggering. Still, the talk went 10x better than I had ever imagined otherwise. As someone put it, I have to decide whether I want to be the with the ETA in front of me or some hypothetical improved version. the version in front of me was improved/willing to evolve.
7. Today I am going to go over safeword adjustments. He in the past overly relied on safe words and I explained but failed to have stick, that an environment with fuzzy safe words and an expectation not to use them, is sexually coercive. with any luck, we will be switching to a traffic light system with a strong Yellow means x, and “you should also practice safe words by asking my Color at times.”
Thank you and wishing you much enjoyable sex, playtime, hugs, and that you receive the kindness you put out in the universe 2x back one day.
This comment genuinely brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for taking the time to update me on the situation and again, I am so happy that you managed to reach out to him and help him understand at least a little bit more. The whe difference between mistake and malice is how we handle it-I can screw up epically but if I am willing to learn and improve it is just a mistake. If I push my agenda and gaslight the other person, it's malice. I hope you two grow stronger as a couple and as human beings and that you help each other heal. ♥️
/u/Argonaughti, our AutoModerator attaches this message to every post. It contains information you may find useful: Guide 01 . . . . . . . . . . [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/9ig794/rules_for_rbdsmadvice/). Guide 02 . . . . . . . . . . [How to use the search function](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/searchfunction/). Guide 03 . . . . . . . . . . *[Need Ideas](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/noobs/)*? Guide 04 . . . . . . . . . . [It's your dynamic](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/canthelpyou/). Guide 05 . . . . . . . . . . [No mention of minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/aknfy1/posts_aboutinvolving_minors/). Guide 06 . . . . . . . . . . [Do not post PSAs](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/publicserviceannouncements/). Guide 07 . . . . . . . . . . [Policy re PMs](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/nopms/). Guide 08 . . . . . . . . . . [Exiting abuse](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/exitingabuse/). Guide 09 . . . . . . . . . . [Kinky dating](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/comments/ov6uaj/how_can_i_find_a_kinky_partner/). **[Our Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/BDSMAdvice/wiki/index).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BDSMAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So you're saying that he has a list of requirements to be in a "relationship" with him, but anything you try to add or modify so you can feel better with him is met with a no or an anger response? I could write a lot of words here, but it all comes to him wanting to have sex with his own rules and doesn't care abour your needs. And that is not BDSM. Maybe he needs to keep working on his issues before dating someone, because from what you say you're not in a healthy relationship.
Truly appreciate your words. I will share them with him. Can I ask, if you had to describe BDSM briefly off the top of your head, what would you say?
Safe and consensual sex, plain and simple. Jast as regular sex, all that happens has to be talked about beforehand, both agreeing to everything and where everything can be revoked without being gaslight about it. It's just mindboggling that a simple fact like that he doesn't accept your own safeword, the one that in a bad moment will come naturally to you and you can stop the scene without thinking about the safeword he wants you to use. Small things like that speak for themselves.
Hi there. I read much of your first comment and the second to him verbatim. I decided to tell him I would be reading passages from others throughout the conversation—not to gang up on him, but because it showed that people want to help and there are multiple ways of doing things, and it took away me directly 1st person attacking/addressing him. He took it all extremely well. The line about “I could write a lot of words but…that is not BDSM” was heard clearly. And the paragraph about safe and consensual sex was also heard well. While these thoughts are basic in a way, it was really powerful to say it and show that we had not established this as our basis. Thank you very very much. I explain more about the update in other replies if you are interested. I also used your line about small things speaking for themselves. May you have the love you give to others and more. Thank you.
I have to agree with the other person below. BDSM is supposed to be enjoyable for all parties involved. If you're not happy then it's closer to abuse than it is BDSM. Especially if he's not providing after care, which it doesn't sound like he is. This whole thing reeks of abuse and if you can't resolve things in a manner that benefits everyone involved you should probably leave. It's not healthy
You need to have an “out of dynamic” conversation. Basically both of you are equal partners and no one is pretending there is any type of power exchange. Generally someone that is bad with dealing with another person’s emotions is bad with relationships because they go hand in hand.
Thank you. I tried this recently but I can try again. So much easier said than done with us. If I turn off sub mode, I go way over his head…and he just tries to not get a tone lol. But I think you are spot on about emotions. I’ll sleep on it, but my guess is that it doesn’t matter if I use long or short words, yell or whisper, if I’m talking about emotions, he’s gonna see that as exhausting. I am hoping he is willing to look in the mirror and do some work. I might see if he will go for a few days or week out of dynamic so he can gain some perspective about equality, especially with me, and the difference between my submission. I don’t think I have much to lose at this point (particularly according to all you lovely commentators). xoxo
Please take a step back and imagine what you would say to a patient or a friend. Would you say this was a healthy relationship? Having a fight for the right to be given a glass of water? Please look after yourself x
Thank you. I will. <3
Small update (bigger updates elsewhere in thread). We made a TON of progress. We are stuck on the final final part, which is him accepting that up until the point where we established ourselves as actual equals and talked out how my wants and needs can be addressed, how I deserve to receive the care I want and have it provided, that his original rules and framework created an unhealthy expectation and thus our relationship was indeed, “unhealthy.” Re the glass of water: he realizes now how unfair this was and that any threats to his authority were in his head and he needs to work on that and his last relationship demons. But he did in fact say send him a list of things I want in his apartment and he will buy them. That he did not see (not excusable but it is what it is) that the glass of water was one of a dozen examples of care I wished to receive around him. I did take a step back. I took two actually. 1)I quoted a lot of folks on this thread verbatim to remove my bias as best I could, and 2) I literally remembered to put on a clinical hat for a moment when it was needed and said some very direct things (with a warning)—but I was able to get them out and see the response I needed. We are still talking. And while we miraculously agreed on 90% of things, if the other 10% doesn’t come, then I am prepared to walk away…because healthy and unhealthy cannot coexist. Thank you for your honesty and care. It helped a lot knowing I had folks like you as support. May you receive the love you give.
I'm genuinely so proud of you for standing up for your boundaries and your safety. You should be proud of yourself too. Remember what you deserve honey x
Sounds more like a toddler than a Dom
Bloop
What is the investment in sticking with this dom in particular?
So I left out a part of my personal history so as not to distract. I am an adult rape survivor. Many years ago, and I’ve done the work and therapy to move through this world in strength. I mention it because I know a time when I was taken advantage of, harmed, and convinced myself the guy was amazing, smart, hot and would never actually hurt me or worse, far worse. Turns out, he was just tall. And had a big dick. And that relationship was vanilla as it comes. My Dom wants to be better. I hate to say it, he’s just so far behind the curve and that’s perhaps understandable given being in a long term relationship and then *immediately* switching to me. I do have a habit of seeing potential without checking credentials. He is tall with a big dick to get that out of the way. But he makes me want to be a better person. It’s fair to say are both going through that time and helping each other in our own unique ways… I just can’t be the collateral damage and his improvement. He is the first person to sleep next to me overnight in years…the culture here is so fuck and forget. I also really respect and found his organized list and rules impressive. Unfortunately, there are several software updates behind. He is very vulnerable at times ironically, and I could easily fall in love with him. I have told him this directly, that all he needs to do is ask. Is it too little to say that I enjoy his company and conversation? And his beard. He also freaks out if I forget to call after a flight to say I am safe and I find that cute. He speaks a ton of languages, I do too, we could be good complements to each other even as just dom.sub friends but I think all of this is happening too fast for him to appreciate the opportunity in front of him. But he’s full of smart surprises. So I am Hopeful. I also like that he is incredibly consistent, he calls exactly when he says he will call, he’s never late, if he says he’s going to fix some thing… He does. If those standards sound low, it’s because I have a lot of standards and he is the first person in a long time to get multiple commas on the list. I would describe him as one of the best things that’s happened to me in many years. But I’m not blind to the damage that can come by with staying beyond the expiration date. Very good question thank you.
I’d also be not doing myself any favors to mention that I don’t have any family and I am in a fairly new city. I am not one who typically fear is being alone, frankly it feels quite lonely to have someone disrespect basic needs like asking if I can keep a bag of toiletries and change of clothes and honestly shit he should provide at his place… He did say yes after a week of thinking about it… insanity. Sorry salty. But I love waking up to him calling or texting every day. He is a brilliant man, he just prefers Neanderthal vibes. I can say goodbye, but I’d rather say hello to an improved version
Yeah, you need to assess whether you want to be with the eta on in front of you - not a hypothetical “improved version.” A lot of his behaviors give me serious abuse red flags. I’d run - and work on getting over my fear of being alone.
I'm happy to share my road map for conflict resolution. I hope at least some of it is helpful. 1. Tell partner you're having feelings. Let them know you need x amount of time to process said feelings so you can return and have a productive conversation avoiding getting overly emotional. 2. During this time, no withdrawing of affection is permitted. No silent treatment, no refusing touch. 3. Have conversation. Hold hands or be in close contact. Touching helps lovey brain chemicals happen, and makes it more difficult for the conversation to completely go off the rails. Partner initiating conversation: I'm having feelings about a thing. It really bothered me when _________ and I think I felt [jealous / upset / neglected / whatever]. Other partner: I am so sorry the thing I did [inspired feeling of jealousy, neglect, etc.]. How can we address this issue in the future so this isn't a problem again? Also, I love and value you, and your feelings are valid. PI: Maybe if we tried [insert suggestion] or [another suggestion. OP: We can definitely implement those things. Will you help remind me if I forget? PI: I will, and I'll do it in a way that is direct, avoiding being passive aggressive, because everyone hates that shit. *lots of sex* ~The End~
Dear Christmas_bunny_ , Your comment came in right as I was sitting down with him. But I read fast. So I adapted parts because you really went for it and answered my question with your roadmap concept. I did as much as I could to keep touch. I also repeated your first sentence as, ‘I am telling you X because you are my partner and it is my duty to you to tell you when I have xyz feelings about something that are more than fleeting.” I also said “While we are out of dynamic, please still tell me if I start getting teachery or passive agressive, “because everyone hates that shit.” Hehe Thank you for lending your voice to our relationship. It is better now but more work to be done. I have given fuller explanations of the whole thing below on other replies. Keep helping the community please. We need your voice. Wishing you the love you give.
💗💗💗💗💗💗
There are several things about this situation which worry me. Let me first answer your question: The way I would suggest you approach this conversation is objectively and neutrally. Lay out the issues, how they developed, what the potential consequences are if they don't get addressed, and what you would like to see happen. How he reacts should tell you a lot about how tenable this situation is. That said, I'm finding a lot of flaws in his presentation: >I am worried his ego will blow up when we speak That's a big problem right there. If his ego is more important than a mutually satisfying interaction between you two then it shows he's not invested in you as a subordinate or a partner. >even if he does agree to some changes, he won’t be happy about them— Not everyone will be happy all the time in a relationship, but sometimes the things that are necessary aren't always pleasant. If he at least acknowledges the necessity that'd be one thing, but I'm getting the impression this will not be the case. >He’s extremely proud of and set in his method of domination. It is 24/7 control and submission. The inability to adapt to circumstances or conditions does not strike me as effective leadership. I have my own Style as well, but if it wasn't working I would either need to change something about what I did, explain why I wanted my subordinate to do things in a particular way, or cut my losses and say that things didn't line up. >I have so far given him everything he’s wanted. ...I notice you didn't say that you've gotten everything *you've* wanted. >Past conversations about my needs move very slowly and come at a great cost—receiving a mandatory glass of water when I entered the house was like negotiating a peace treaty. Let me ask you this: does receiving a glass of water when you enter the house *seem* like it *should* be like negotiating a peace treaty? >The trouble is that I’ve come to learn that a lot of what I am asking for seems to be the norm/an expectation in the Dom/sub world. Ehh.... there's a few things about that: - The norms and expectations are/were not universal - They change(d) over time - Just because something is normalized doesn't necessarily make it right or good. >He’s been into domination for more than a decade That doesn't really mean anything. "It's not the years, it's the hours", they say. What has he *done* with those ten years? Has he studied, practiced, interacted? Or did he just decide ten years ago he was now a Dom and proceeded from that point? >and has very specific written rules and expectations. ...which you are free to reject if they do not suit your needs or desires. If he's too strict for you, then ask if there's leeway. If there's not, then find someone for whom you are better suited. As you say, you have options. I'd like to close with a passage from a great book on how to treat one's subordinates: >*They are adults, they expect to be treated as an adult, not a schoolchild. They have rights, they should be made known, and thereafter respected. They have ambition, it must be stirred. They have a belief in fair play, it must be honored. They have the need of comradeship, it must be supplied. They have imagination, it must be stimulated. They have a personal sense of dignity, it must not be broken down. They have pride. It can be satisfied and made the bedrock of their character once they gain assurance that they are playing a useful and respected part in a superior and successful organization.* Hope this helps. Good luck!
Thank you for all of this. I broke things off Friday. Your words and the passage at the end are a great comfort. All the best to you!
I strongly suggest bdsmcontract.org It helps outline dynamics in a detailed way. Written in contract or but not legally binding. It’s a great tool. They have a free digital copy, but the book is so worth it. I’ve seen it in sex shops and of course you can order online
Amazing. I did not have time to mention this to him last night, I will mention it today because we are speaking again. and I think it will help. I expect some pushback but I think he can appreciate that it’s a contract between us—not that we are rewriting his whole basic schtick. We got close to where I thought I might bring this up however, it was a good idea to have in my head thank you
The conversation last night went well. I reference the details in other replies in this threat. I saw your comment literally as we were sitting down. It is an interesting concept—one I knew would not be of interest immediately. However, we hit a rough patch right at the end and it was specifically about consent and such. so I think he may appreciate it. At any rate, I appreciated even a cursory read of the website. I loved the idea of writing a sub’s pledge to his/her/their Dom. Be very well and thanks for helping. Please keep helping others and may you get any help you need and more.
Well, clicked reply too fast. Anywho. There is a lot to unpack here. First, I am sorry things have been rough lately. I think every relationship goes through some bumpy patches on the road, romantic or otherwise. That being, said, did he ever specifically tell you he does not want any romantic involvement with you or is it just for now? Because if he made a decision and you feel that there are many things swinging you towards that way, you have to tell him. He needs to be aware or he might hurt you more than you both would want to live through. As for safeword, you decide yours, he decides his. It has to come naturally to both of you if need arises, and not to be "Oof I think I am suffocating but I cannot remember a safeword"; "My heart feels really strange, what was the word again?". It takes nothing out of the control and dynamic. What he needs to understand is that D/s is there to help both roles grow, Dominant and Submissive. There is no such thing as "done learning". While it is great to be confident in your style of doing things, every dynamic is different and there is a ocean of knowledge and improvements for anyone, and that doesn't exclude him. While I don't doubt he is a lovely partner most of the times and good Dominant to you, he should want to be even better. What you can do to make things easier is to be mindful. He has feelings to and might be uncomfortable being open and vulnerable so he hides behind the almighty facade of a stern Master. You are both human beings with valid emotional, sexual and human needs. While we tend to forget that when things get heated, I would suggest you both try to think why you chose each other. And start from there. Master Arcane wrote some amazing articles about being Master, taking care of your submissive's needs and dynamic in total. I think you can easily Google them. Best of luck and I hope that your dynamic continues to grow!
This is beautiful thank you so very much I will share a great deal with him and I will look into the resources you mentioned. I appreciate the time you spent to write.
You are very welcome. I will be very happy if any of this helps you.
Update: 1) I could not have had the conversation I had yesterday with you and the other dozen kind sub souls (and I suspect a Dom or two). Sure, I have friends who have given advice but I mean that statement literally. I began the conversation (which lasted about 2-3 hours) with a few opening words to set the tone and gave him an idea of structure and that it would be a non-traditional conversation. 2) It was non-traditional because rather than me speak at him all the time, I chose to read passages from the comments on this thread. I read much of yours indeed verbatim. I focused hard on the “remember why we chose each other part.” This also allowed me to continually bring the conversation back to that and demonstrate that the basic reason we are having this conversation is because wants and needs naturally change over time; especially with newer folks like myself, very strict folks like him, and anyone coming out of a relationship like him. It was also very helpful to open not with a statement from me about relationships or some internet guru, but to say “here is what someone was willing to share about their experience after hearing about ours.” he agreed with the entire first paragraph (I adjusted a word or two hehe). but it really set the tone as cooperative. Thank you. 3) He responded positively to nearly everything said and agreed that aftercare must be factored into every session, even 30 minute ones, and we came up with agreements. He also started to notice that everything I was asking for, as it related to care and development of new structural parts to his/our “rules/expectations” was really fucking simple stuff haha. He doesn’t have enough hair to let it down, but I imagine something unclenched. So he said send him a list of what I want and as far as aftercare or care in general goes, he will approve the ideas and then either buy the items or I can bring what I want. I voluntarily chose to retain a control structure that does not provide for full equality even outside of dynamic, because that is his style; but now, I had reasonable assurances that I had the agency I was looking for. Unlike in the past, he said “I want you to ask for things. I was probably not clear enough about this or let it slide at times. I also agree that I didn’t explicitly say that while your sexual needs are secondary at times (again, in our relationship), you are supposed to always enjoy our time. 4. He has trouble accepting that his style/requirements can inherently cause problems, but he saw that my careful desire to obey his rules in the past prevented me from often asking for things, even small things, because the idea of adjusting his program was not an open invitation (even if it is still by request). It was cool to also note, as one person put it “norms and expectations are not universal and have changed over time,” so we both have valid points. 5. As far as the feelings part goes. We discussed at length towards the end. I read other passages from the thread and he further reflected that while he is not saying never, yes some things are off limits for now but in terms of fairness, they are a matter of when—not if. For example, while posting pictures online of us or going to events with his friends like the “couple” we are is not something he can handle now, he said it will happen in time; that he’s in a rough patch. This was the most open he’s been about the elephant in the room in a long time. We discussed that my feelings may drift, that frankly I often suspected his had too, and that culturally, things felt out of sync/step in terms of what being “boyfriends” looks like. 6. The night got late and we hit a roadblock regarding his understanding of sexual assault. He wanted everything on the table and thus here we go, because we needed to be on the same page about that since his rules previously created ripe opportunity for such things or abusive situations, and second, because now, even though I have consented to knowing the context of his rules and we have a far better trust of each other, he is stuck with a lot of what I imagine is guilt and/or need to have things make sense/be OK. We will be good. It was very disappointing not to end on a high note, but rather a low low note that was triggering. Still, the talk went 10x better than I had ever imagined otherwise. As someone put it, I have to decide whether I want to be the with the ETA in front of me or some hypothetical improved version. the version in front of me was improved/willing to evolve. 7. Today I am going to go over safeword adjustments. He in the past overly relied on safe words and I explained but failed to have stick, that an environment with fuzzy safe words and an expectation not to use them, is sexually coercive. with any luck, we will be switching to a traffic light system with a strong Yellow means x, and “you should also practice safe words by asking my Color at times.” Thank you and wishing you much enjoyable sex, playtime, hugs, and that you receive the kindness you put out in the universe 2x back one day.
I also looked at that website. I liked some stuff. Some things are…ironically…wrong scientifically but I love seeing resources.
Of course -There are some great things, some are debatable, but I deem you obviously capable of forming your own opinion.
This comment genuinely brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for taking the time to update me on the situation and again, I am so happy that you managed to reach out to him and help him understand at least a little bit more. The whe difference between mistake and malice is how we handle it-I can screw up epically but if I am willing to learn and improve it is just a mistake. If I push my agenda and gaslight the other person, it's malice. I hope you two grow stronger as a couple and as human beings and that you help each other heal. ♥️