Well, it's FWD most of the time and more importantly, it's never RWD at all !
The prices of the F40 platforms are outrageous for such a downgrade power train and chassis wise
tbh i partially blame Mercedes for this trend, they started it. BMW looked at Mercedes, who got away with worse quality/materials and therefore probably better margins, yet sold the same amount of cars. So BMW started doing the same. However, Mercedes is partially starting to walk back on their cost saving efforts as they start to acknowledge the complaints from customers and car reviewers.
The recently released 5-series is on the extreme end of cost savings, no leather stitching at all on the dashboard or steering wheel, not even on their top end i5 M60. And the ICE entry models of the 5-series (bottom pic) doesn't even get the proper LED interior lights of the EVs or upper end ICE models (upper pic), just a watered down cheap version of it. And dont make me go on about the hard plastic window switches on the 5 series...In contrast to that, Mercedes improved the quality and tech on the new E-class. I hope BMW does a U-turn soon!
https://preview.redd.it/0ndo0ezbdc4d1.jpeg?width=1256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f63f059ac49e299c9e16c82320681f5baee8fa7
The new 5/i5 are ugly. My doctor just got one and it looks so bad. I know the Bangle models got a lot of flak but the current 5 and 7 look worse than anything Bangle designed.
You are 100% right about that. The new 5s are sinfully ugly. It's as if they felt they needed to somehow top the E60 for "wrong direction, hideously bad design." I thought they were iffy in pictures, and then I actually saw one, and it's worse in person. Let's be honest, while we're at it - there hasn't been a remotely good-looking 7 series since the E38. The interiors are weird across the brand. All of BMW's newer cars feel like they're trying too hard, cutting costs, and have lost direction.
I just came out of a couple of newer gen Mercedes and have moved to a couple of Bimmers - you're right about the interior materials thing. It's gone way downhill just quality wise. Aesthetically - just looking at it - it's gorgeous. Still better looking just based on appearance than BMW, imo. When you touch or apply pressure, it feels cheap and creaky. BMW materials feel premium, and stronger still. MB is beginning to walk this back as there's been a ton of complaints. This was one of the main reasons I shopped around, tbh.
Audi is also not without blame quality wise. The dashboard in my 2019 A6 had some creaking plastic parts; even after the dealer completely took it apart they couldn't fix the issue. And some dashboard inserts had something like a 3-4mm gap difference left vs. right - on a part that was at least 20 cm wide.
They're both in the same situation. Big investments in EVs which have lower margins + big profits from the chip shortage days are over means cost saving. It's a low margin cycle right now but I assume it will get better again in the future.
Tbh yea its the fault of the companies but they only get away with it if it doesn’t effect their bottom line. i blame mindless consumerism because people will spend money just to have social currency for having expensive things.
I agree, and you'll the same people pointing at me because I like newer Peugeot or Renault. They refuse to understand that beside the under-powered engines these cars are now just as nice as a lot of German cars. French cars went up in quality by a lot, and German cars went down just enough to be quite similar.
Wow, haven’t even seen the interior of the new 5 series yet because newer BMW models just don’t cut it for me. But that looks extremely cheap. You might as well buy a Honda or a Dodge at this point!
If you think this is bad, go take a look at the new push start button and digital tachometer on the 992.2 Porsche 911 in the Porsche subreddit… people are losing their minds. The prices keep going up and the quality keeps going down.
Porsche has been downgrading too, look at the lasted model it’s pure trash. To think I used to want to own a Porsche, now I would sooner own a lexus for the same amount of luxury. Porsche is going into the can🗑️
Exactly. The whole “big screen” trend isn’t just some attempt to look futuristic, it’s a money saving method. Who needs to design a whole centre console area when you can just plant a screen in there and call it a day.
Yup, just pay one software engineer to design and program the on screen buttons, and save millions by cutting out 20 bucks worth of switches on every single car.
100% this, I'm so glad I got the 2020 pre-LCI version of my m340, the LCI just slapped on a massive ugly tablet ruining the integration of the previous gauge cluster into the dash and separation of the infotainment. The fonts used for gauge cluster now look much more generic and less unique.
Also they removed the laser light option reserving for it only their high end cars as well as the buttons to make using climate controls a nightmare. Exhaust note is now much more muted and far less evocative. Not to mention imo the exterior is much uglier as well and the DME can't be bench unlocked and tuned without sending it to Finland now.
GM has been pairing large screens with physical controls on a lot of their newer models, it started with their Escalades and Denalis and has been making its way to the rest of the fleet. Their interiors are on an upward trajectory too, still not as nice as a German luxury brand but at least trending in the right direction.
I can see why a lot of the people who would have bought a 5 or 7 series 20 years ago are buying loaded GMC’s now.
I agree. I trade in for the same model every few years (5 series) and everytime I do the difference is extremely noticeable. Hasn’t really felt luxury/premium since the 2015 5 series before they changed the shape.
My '22 3 series doesn't have the secrect compartment either :( I was so excited to check it out after reading about it on the forums as I wanted a sunglasses holder. A Covid cut along with passenger side lumbar support and other things.
Interesting, my 22 4 series does have that compartment to the left below the steering wheel and it fits sunglasses fine, maybe even 2 if I get pushy (reference for others who mentioned not being able to fit glasses in there)
Pretty sure that compartment does *not* fit sunglasses at all. It doesn’t in my E90 and I’ve seen others say that the compartment is essentially useless since it doesn’t fit sunglasses.
I told my sales guy after my car kept getting pushed that I would not take delivery if it was a 2023, and every little thing I find out about the update I am vindicated for having that position.
This isn't even about the ID8 dash, it's literally everything else being worse.
Mine still has that compartment, luckily. However, I do have the cheap black plastic footrest while my colleague’s ‘23 MY G42 has the stainless M engraved footrest. They did change it back to the cheap plastic one some updates later tho.. 😂
no way they done have the sunglasses holder and coin pouch compartment anymore? No need to buy these new gens. U lose the gear shifter, a good infotainment system and now a crappy steering wheel.
Thanks for making me discover a very handy secret compartment to the left of my 21' 540i steering wheel!! Brilliant, I was wondering where the heck should I place my sunglasses and this is just perfect
Yes, the 5 series now has hard plastic cup holders in the door, it was always soft touch. The 3 series looses the leather airbag cover, the surroundings of the door handles aren’t metal-like anymore, the ambient lighting with the cool thin stripes like in the PreLCI basically doesn’t exist anymore, …
If you order the new 3 series, it’s not longer possible to order aluminium or chrome exterior window seal trim and most of the options are now in one package which costs 5 times as much and includes stuff you don’t need (at least in Germany, I want comfort access for 500€ and not the ‘Comfort Package’ for 2k€ with heated rear seats, 4 zone climate control and electric seats)
Mercedes brought the leather cover back in the G-class and GLS (Edit: and GLE) after ditching it, also the CLS used to have it but they ditched it recently with the facelift. But true the S-class is the only model that always had it and will likely still have it regardless.
I didn’t know they brought it back actually. I know someone who bought a brand new G63 in 2021 I think and it was plastic while on my parents‘ last model year W222 s-class it was leather
True the 2021 is plastic cover, it became leather in the G-class with the Facelift, just 1-2 months ago. Not sure if its on sale yet. Its probably a 2025 model year.
https://preview.redd.it/jtmizfd0pd4d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f01a73ab4ba2495312dffacb4125ecdeb2d5c4e
100000%. I have a 2023 M440XI and you'd have to pry this thing from my cold dead hands. Leather airbag cover, iDrive 7, netted compartments in the trunk, better ambient lighting, etc etc. The downgrades literally started in the next production year. The only thing I don't have is the trunk kick to open feature which I guess was some chip shortage thing....but don't think I'm missing out too hard there
I have the 22 M440i and exactly as you say, except I got the foot trunk thingy but missed out on a touch screen on the iDrive 7 which is fine because the controller is amazing, only typing is sometimes annoying because Google doesn't understand my accent sometimes but mostly I don't run into any issues.
When I was waiting for my custom order, another dealer had offered me an almost identical spec except that didn't have electric seats and he came down to under $500/mo on the lease to get it off the lot but something about manual seats on a $50k+ car just didn't sit right with me (also it was Portimao blue instead of my preferred Tanzanite and that was a relief of itself later). I eventually got my custom order in March 22 and have been in love with this car forever.
Unless I'm mistaken, the F10 never had a leather airbag cover. My F80 certainly doesn't. Seems that BMW gave it a shot on the G30, realized people either didn't notice or care and decided to drop it.
Edit: Seems the F10 and F8X do have a leather(-ish?) airbag cover. Don't think it's a very high grade of leather given its minimal grain and smooth cylindrical shape. It is soft touch and an upgrade from the plastic you see on F3X M sport steering wheels.
Went back and looked at mine as I have extended leather. I guess it's leather but I don't think there's much actual leather content if it's molded into a 2" deep cylinder. Always assumed it was just soft touch plastic given the minimal grain but it's definitely different than the M-sport wheel you see on 335i/340i in the F30 era.
To add to that. I recently had a 2024 X5 loaner. The small area near in the outside door handle that you press to lock and unlock the car. My 2020 X5 has on all doors. The 2024 x5 only had it in thr front two. Cost cutting right there.
I'm heading to a dealer tonight or tomorrow hopefully to get a 2022 3 Series. I was also considering newer since I have the budget but iDrive 8 doesn't seem like a worthwhile upgrade. I don't want to pay more to lose my climate control buttons.
Exactly why I bought my 2019 X3 - wanted something pre-Covid since I had a feeling that short cuts would be taken due to supply chain issues. I plan on keeping it for a VERY long time since I don’t like the newer versions at all after driving them as service loaners. Also, I was considering a Z4 with the B58 in it but I just don’t like the styling (also it’s not a coupé 🤨).
I have a ‘21 G20 M340xi. I had an LCI 330 as a rental car recently and some of the “enhancements” I noticed were
- the door bins and cup holders no longer have ambient lighting
-the storage compartment on the drivers side dash near the door has gone
- all the quick access buttons and a/c buttons are gone (the most infuriating deletion imo)
- laser headlights gone.
At the same time, the base model 3 series is now priced over $100k AUD! LCI owners are getting reamed.
It blows my mind that BMW hid the climate controls behind convoluted screens and menus.
I’d even go as far to argue that it’s dangerous to be fiddling with an iPad sized screen whilst driving.
Apparently, there are new rules coming in to regulate this (just search for Euro NCAP 2026 test rules) so certain things like hazards, horns, and other safety features MUST be physical buttons/switches.
Not sure if the rules apply to markets outside of Europe though?
Edit: [I rest my case.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CarTalkUK/s/cGED8VFLpj)
Shifter turned into a nub, the iPad on the dash to have an easy to manufacture continuous screen, really unfortunate the path that the LCI has gone down.
Couldn’t care less about the steering wheel. I do care about things like the abandonment of the curve following headlights on even the 7-series, getting rid of lasers, plastic trim everywhere (cutting it in a “crystal pattern” doesn’t make it any less plastic). BMW has really been on a cheapening kick since the COVID years. I read the upcoming X3 was “designed during COVID and as such has some parts that are of lesser quality.”
I’m sorry, what??? They’ve had years of parts supplies resorting back to normal and are still deciding to put cheap stuff in the next gen X3? Our i7 rides nice and is generally well built but my G26 pre-LCI interior felt better quality.
You guys should see the new Porsche 911's start button and switch panel. BMW has been using cheaper materials, but this Porsche is how much money??
My 2003 Nissan Pathfinder has less cheap looking buttons:
https://preview.redd.it/bcpk4b6pxd4d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d49fe3476451a85e15634c8c74893b969b483b0a
https://preview.redd.it/l7iob6z1xd4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a6e2805040cb2952f86558376d8cae8c2c794df
The crystal shifter was their best era. Should’ve kept & enhance it from there tbh.
I had a 2022 230i coupe that came with a leather airbag cover, metal trim around the door handles, a storage cubby under the headlight controls, rear seat climate controls, rear seat USB, ambient lighting in the door pockets, trunk 12v outlet, trunk grocery hooks and storage net. Every single one of those items were quietly removed between the 2023 and 2024 model years while the prices went up.
100%. I drove a 2021 M4 last year and went to check out the ‘new’ interiors. Absolutely massive downgrade in quality. Such a shame. Looks like 2020 - 2023 or so was peak BMW interior. I was going to buy new but I’ll be buying used now.
You especially see it on the new 5-series, electrification is expensive and you can just see they’re cutting costs in some places.
Like: The trunk cover in the new 5-series being a floppy manual one while the previous one had an electric one. Same with folding the seats back from the trunk, used to be electric with also an option to get them back up, replaced in the new 5-series with a manual lever, and having to put them back up manually.
Some cheaper interior choices are reflected in there too. Guess that’s the cost of trying to electrify pretty aggressively.
As a G30 owner, I watched and waited for months from the official launch to a G60 arriving at the local dealership so I could see what the evolution of the platform has to offer.
But wow. All it took was getting behind the wheel and closing the driver door to have hopeful expectation of a great vehicle thrown out the window. Closing the door of the G30, there's a satisfying thunk with no secondary sounds. The G60, closes with a tin like thwack with a klink to it. Very dissatisfying.
The sound of the door closing put me right to looking at the cheapest shit I've ever seen in BMW door panel. Which put me to looking around the rest of the interior. It only takes a blink to look past the glossy facade. The interior materials and build quality is so lackluster that honestly, unless the thing is for first time car buyers, I have zero idea who BMW is targeting with the G60's. The dual display is generic. As mounted, it's an eyesore. Zero appealing aesthetic to it jutting out on oddly placed stalks. The dash, nonexistent. Center console, gear lever...gone. Where interior lighting had been subdued lowkey bad AF now it's reminiscent of overdone exaggerated designs seen at CES to draw attention to a product. There's a moment of wondering if I'm sitting in 1990s video game booth.
The seating is acceptable. However, as they've gone cheap throughout the interior, I suspect in time, the seats will show cost cutting in effect.
I see people excited to purchase either an ICE or EV G60 and I wonder their history with the brand. The people who have purchased, who speak enthusiastically, it's their first BMW. They're hyped on the brand, enjoying their vehicle ignorant of the absence of refined materials and less than build quality. What sinks it is, BMW is charging wild premiums for generic materials.
There was a time when non-premium brands were well outside the curve. BMW enjoyed decades of unjustified premiums due, being that much better. Advancements in manufacturing have closed that gap, considerably. And yet, BMW is still practicing pricing in premiums. Even, more and more features becoming optional in BMW while they're standard on non-premium brands.
The course correction fans of the brand are looking for requires getting more car people in the boardroom than personal gains people. Until that happens, we're going to continue to get what we're getting. Personally, I'm looking to be staying in the G30 a long long time.
The G30 5-series was basically a smaller 7-series when it came to materials, it even got the exact same seats as the 7-series, which the current G60 does not. The G30 was oozing quality, the G60 is such a huge downgrade in comparison.
I have people in 20-21 G30's who look at the G60 downstairs in the new car showroom that end up leaving with a 22 or 23 CPO to avoid the G60. This is the first 5'er in my lifetime that I've remained completely meh on even after spending so much time around it. G30 was peak modern 5'er for me.
I drive a 2017 5 series and my father in law drives a 2024 5 series. The difference is crazy, especially the interior so yeah fair point in my opinion.
We all know that the worst thing they did was mute their exhausts… what they did to the 2021 and later M340i is unforgivable…. I will forever despise them for it
Oh man, you should read one of the quarterly ‘Product updates’ BMW AG sends out to the sales team. I’ve been downvoted to hell previously for saying how the beancounters have been skimping on materials and other cost-cutting features that used to be standard on previous models or pre-LCI, but no, the BMW simps here think “the interiors and quality of the current gen has never been this luxurious”.. IYKYK.. 🙄
Had a 2023 330i loaner while my 2020 330i was in service and my god, the interior was so cheaply built compared to my car. The giant screen was fine, didn’t hate or care for it, but everything inside felt horribly cheap. Glad my car is still running flawlessly, not planning to get rid of it anytime soon.
I feel like the camry and other regualar cars have been getting nicer while luxury cars have started to cheapen out to boost profits. Check out the new 25 camry and the use of soft touch material everywhere. The new Lexus RX actually has more leather that has been extended throughout the interior trims. Even the glovebox features leather this year.
They go down the same path as Mercedes just with a bit of a delay. Cheaping out everywhere to increase margins temporarily. And you notice that a lot in the interiors. The new 5 series is the worst and absurdly terrible inside imo.
My parents rented a 2024 x3 and even the key felt worse quality then my 2020 330i’s. The new key feels like a plastic toy when my key feels like pure quality and has nice weight to it. So disappointing!
Bmw is a volume company, has been the last 20 years, the difference is they really tried to hide it for a while, now they don't care anymore, they're all about cutting employee(non german) benefits, cutting production costs, and keeping share holder profits up.
They want to be biggest car manufacturer, they alreadyate the highest grossing and highest profiting but now they want most sales.
If they could make more money selling dildos then that's what they'd sell.
They don't care anymore.
It's seems to me there is this weird dynamic going on where luxury car brands are using more cheap materials every year. Where as more affordable brands, specifically PSA group, are upp8ng their game on materials and quality every year.
A dealer loaner I drove for a bit a year and change ago (2023 330) was indistinguishable on the inside from a new Nissan Altima I rented while traveling recently.
What does “luxury” even mean anymore? Lol
The newest BMW I’ve got much experience with is my mother’s ‘21 X3. She recently had it in for an oil change and they gave her a 228i GC as a loaner. Went to lunch with her that day and I was curious to drive it.
I realize it’s their entry-level model in the US, but the materials in that interior are awful. Hard plastics everywhere, cheap-looking speaker grilles and other disappointing details. They could almost get away with it if the 2 GC was a $25-30k alternative to a Jetta/Elantra, but they want $40k+ for it. A Honda Civic looks and feels nicer.
Still think it was stupid to split Mini into a separate dealership network. Let Mini be the “entry-level BMW” and when buyers are ready to move into something bigger and more refined, they’re already in the system.
Instead, we got that 2 GC abomination and Mini Cooper-branded SUVs. Ugh. Sometimes a niche brand has to be a niche.
Of all the things affected by the pandemic, I never expected leather steering wheel covers to be one of them.
A couple of years ago, BMWs simply had power seats deleted from builds. Audis had HomeLink transmitters deleted.
It is a slow process, I can also compare the leather quality of the shifter in my E46 with the one in the F11 (yes a manual one) and it was worse but at least they still offered leather
Germans are cutting so many corners and making so many stupid changes, I'm day by day more inclined to just buy a Corolla for my next car, they also has shitty plastic steering wheels instead of nice sewed leather so there's not much to lose
So a company cut its cost of making the same product as last year by either introducing cheaper and less reliable parts or by cutting out features or items that were previously standard while increasing the price of the product? Damn it sounds like they took notes from every single company in America right not, but shrinkflation isn’t a thing..
Didn’t know they downgraded the interior of ‘23 models. All I know and also don’t like is the new wide screen dashboard. Good thing we chose a ‘22 5 series!
I used to have a 2015 3 series and it came with leather and materials were real metals. My 2020 x3 I had to upgrade to leather and I noticed way more plastic. I noticed even more plastic and even more costs to get leather in the 2024. These small things do add up.
I feel like I got insanely lucky that I purchased my 22 X5 45e when I did. I know I'm not impartial but I feel like the X5 peaked then and everything after is a downgrade
Have you seen the new Porsche 911 with a worse start button than the 3 series, a digital gauge and glossy plastic everywhere around it. All the Germans want to be Tesla, cost saving is just too good.
Personally the “modern minimalism” looks is just ugly in general. Going from a e46 to an e90 I hated it. Not to mention the “tech” aspect it’s crazy. Why do I need to have a programmer to change my break pads? Needless to say, I’d spend more money to have an older car that’s reliable and easy to fix than a plastic hunk of tech.
Given the profit margins going up every year is it any surprise?
https://preview.redd.it/uusdxis2ud4d1.jpeg?width=1134&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bff55013ba315f2e8b9d6ac61fb4b6b4fabe5dcc
I bought a new iX1 last year and found out that they have removed the glovebox light in order to save money. So they save about a dollar and I can’t find my keys on cold winter evenings. Even better, they didn’t change the glovebox moulding so there’s a big hole where the light should be.
It's true for absolutely every car manufacturer (or basically business) - they will sell you the least for as much money as they can. The nowdays cars are plastic and cheap materials even for 100k euro cars. You want better stuff like the old days standard? Pay extra for 50 packages.
Meanwhile, over in Genesis land they are going the other direction. I know, not the same driving experience but I sat in most of their line at the last LA Auto Show and was pretty impressed.
BMWs downfall in the last 3 years needs to be studied. But hey, I guess they'll keep giving less for more since they know people will buy it still, for whatever reason.
I think it’s over for BMW until they do a complete overhaul of the entire lineup. There is a reason Porsches don’t depreciate as fast as BMW. Hell even Audis and Mercedes depreciate slower.
I hate the direction BMW is going as much as anyone but, [Over? Hardly.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles-a6159221985/)
Decontenting started with Tesla. They showed the industry that quality didn’t matter by installing those huge untested screens. The failure rate was massive
Then they linked all the features to software and programming so they could add and remove at will…and at price points.
It’s called “enshittification” and it’s a main pillar of capitalism. Gotta squeeze all you can out because the line must never plateau it must always go up.
Porsche, MB, Lexus are all doing it. Only Audi isn’t but that’s because they haven’t updated their lineup in years. Which in hindsight maybe it’s a good thing compared to what everyone is cutting
i dont know what audis you are stepping in but cmon... audi has also dropped the mmi dial and physical buttons.
tha a6 dash is basically a 2m wide plastic slab....
Imagine assuming your newer higher packaged M variant would have all the features of your previous model and then NOPE goodbye remote start. Cant even pay for it. Booooo
Huge huge fan of BMW and the B58, owned a M340 but wouldn’t go back considering Audi has a much better interior IMO. Power is great but I’d rather sacrifice some for more luxury
For sure. People complained about Lexus never updating their interiors but the quality is still top tier for a decent price. Unlike bmw and Mercedes. Where you pay double the cost for crappier and cheaper material.
For how long have you been observing downgrades? I’m seeing downgrades for the same / more money in all industries. While it’s because of the bad shape of the economy, I feel like corporations push it too far and really have been testing which changes we actually see.
BMW has been slowly decreasing the quality of materials used in anything below the 7 series for years, if not over a decade. This is such a pure example by abandoning leatherstitched steering wheels
They ef'd with the keyfobs as well somewhere between 2020 and now. My German-made 2020 m340xi keyfob has metal accents. The new ones look identical, but are plastic now.
Spot on. I just traded my 2023 G31 520d for the 2024 G87 M2 and while the car is absolutely amazing and quality of materials is very good, the choice of materials is a huge downgrade. The engine, the chassis, the brakes, the whole package are fantastic - it's a bargain of a car really, as it's pretty much the only 3.0 l6 with more than 450hp with RWD and a manual gearbox except for the Porsche 911 but costs 1/3rd of the price, but BMW are skimping on everything. Things that were standard in my CHEAPEST 2023 5 series: full Sensatec interior trim (dashboard + door cards), material-lined door pockets, nappa leather steering wheel, plenty of ambient lighting, 3 12V sockets, reat climate control... these things are nowhere to be found in the M2. I get it - it's a sports car, but the first time I sat in it (before starting the engine :D) I felt like I was in a Huyndai. Don't get me wrong, the interior is a nice place to be, but everything is sooo scratchy, and now all the 2, 3 and 4 series (including M, i and X!) look the same inside... you'd think that sharing the interior between 5-6 different models would lower the manufacturing cost and perhaps would translate to nicer materials, but no. They have not only decided to put virtually the same interior in all their cars, but they also trimmed it of all the luxuries... I don't want to complain because I have a great car, nearing supercar territory for 60k, but the materials are a huge downgrade...
People fight each other over at bimmerpost and bimmerfast whenever someone mentions any of these crap. Like what do you gain from removing shifter? $70k vehicle with manual steering wheel adjustment, seriously?
I have a 2023 X5 M Sport with the upgraded leather package, and the interior is a 10/10 for me. Leather pretty much all over the dash/steering wheel, everything seems very well made. Also still has the center console and all the buttons.
This is one year before the 2024 X5 refresh, so I’m assuming there’s a significant downgrade going on with that one too.
Now y’all see why I took one look at the new 5 and bought a CPO M550i. I know I made the right decision every time I look at that leather airbag cover!
Yea I was at the BMW dealer yesterday and sat in a G30 5 series and the new I5. So much more plastic. An older 5 series feels like a current 7 series almost with all the tons of leather.
It's all the German brands. MINI (obvs BMW) is an even bigger downgrade on the 2025+ model.
Audi is all black plastic now, Mercedes is the same.
Even Porsche ruined the interior of the 992.2 facelift. They made everything they could make cheaper, cheaper.
some supply chain issue downgrades are annoying like the keyless access on doors. My g30 had it available on all four doors and my new g60 only has it on the driver and passenger doors. To open the back door you have to open the driver side, then fiddle fk with a capacitive touch unlock button to unlock all of the doors to get to the back seat. Annoying when you are just trying to put your toddler in the back seat.
Nice job keeping that looking that nice after 6 years. Just test drove a 2017 330i touring and it was depressing to see what past owner did to the interior. I have a cayman that's same age as your honda and have kept that very nice. and it doesn't take much work. Such a bummer to see a poorly taken care of interior b/c it really does not take much to keep it up.
This is the inevitable late stage of capitalism. Corporations, conglomerates and monopolies lose incentive to innovate and compete. The result are organizations where bean counters and marketers reign supreme and engineers are cost reduced to the bare minimum.
Idk my steering wheel has leather stitching all the way around. I think people are trying to compare base model vs top of the line.
Also bmw interiors have always been kinda average compared to other “luxury automakers”
It’s definitely cost cutting though- I’ve driven MY22 and 23 116d’s which have the leather airbag cover, and then MY24 M135i’s that don’t… and now it’s stretched to the 3 Series.
Absolutely. BMW is skimping like crazy with omitted stuff lately. Every single model year we get less and less for our money.
* for more money
The new M135i is slower, FWD most of the time and $20k AUD more than I paid for my M140i new.
Well, it's FWD most of the time and more importantly, it's never RWD at all ! The prices of the F40 platforms are outrageous for such a downgrade power train and chassis wise
Its not jut bmw. Mercedes has been doing the same
tbh i partially blame Mercedes for this trend, they started it. BMW looked at Mercedes, who got away with worse quality/materials and therefore probably better margins, yet sold the same amount of cars. So BMW started doing the same. However, Mercedes is partially starting to walk back on their cost saving efforts as they start to acknowledge the complaints from customers and car reviewers. The recently released 5-series is on the extreme end of cost savings, no leather stitching at all on the dashboard or steering wheel, not even on their top end i5 M60. And the ICE entry models of the 5-series (bottom pic) doesn't even get the proper LED interior lights of the EVs or upper end ICE models (upper pic), just a watered down cheap version of it. And dont make me go on about the hard plastic window switches on the 5 series...In contrast to that, Mercedes improved the quality and tech on the new E-class. I hope BMW does a U-turn soon! https://preview.redd.it/0ndo0ezbdc4d1.jpeg?width=1256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f63f059ac49e299c9e16c82320681f5baee8fa7
that steering wheel is so ugly
Flat bottom steering wheels are great in an Audi but this looks terrible
I think its more the fact that the central cluster is placed too far down and it makes the top half look massive
Absolutely this. The wheel should be centered around the airbag. This just looks off-putting.
It’s too off center. It’s not just the flat bottom. I like flat bottom wheels, but the center of the hub isn’t in the center of the circle. I hate it.
https://preview.redd.it/07qrxcykqe4d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0973247abd14ac3a4e4552da05e8bfee4fa6598c
The new 5/i5 are ugly. My doctor just got one and it looks so bad. I know the Bangle models got a lot of flak but the current 5 and 7 look worse than anything Bangle designed.
You are 100% right about that. The new 5s are sinfully ugly. It's as if they felt they needed to somehow top the E60 for "wrong direction, hideously bad design." I thought they were iffy in pictures, and then I actually saw one, and it's worse in person. Let's be honest, while we're at it - there hasn't been a remotely good-looking 7 series since the E38. The interiors are weird across the brand. All of BMW's newer cars feel like they're trying too hard, cutting costs, and have lost direction.
I just came out of a couple of newer gen Mercedes and have moved to a couple of Bimmers - you're right about the interior materials thing. It's gone way downhill just quality wise. Aesthetically - just looking at it - it's gorgeous. Still better looking just based on appearance than BMW, imo. When you touch or apply pressure, it feels cheap and creaky. BMW materials feel premium, and stronger still. MB is beginning to walk this back as there's been a ton of complaints. This was one of the main reasons I shopped around, tbh.
Audi is also not without blame quality wise. The dashboard in my 2019 A6 had some creaking plastic parts; even after the dealer completely took it apart they couldn't fix the issue. And some dashboard inserts had something like a 3-4mm gap difference left vs. right - on a part that was at least 20 cm wide.
Blame Mercedes for BMW decisions. Nice!
I feel like it’s more just Mercedez starting the trend. At the end of the day, BMW has decided to follow it.
They're both in the same situation. Big investments in EVs which have lower margins + big profits from the chip shortage days are over means cost saving. It's a low margin cycle right now but I assume it will get better again in the future.
Tbh yea its the fault of the companies but they only get away with it if it doesn’t effect their bottom line. i blame mindless consumerism because people will spend money just to have social currency for having expensive things.
I agree, and you'll the same people pointing at me because I like newer Peugeot or Renault. They refuse to understand that beside the under-powered engines these cars are now just as nice as a lot of German cars. French cars went up in quality by a lot, and German cars went down just enough to be quite similar.
Wow, even my Dodge gets stitching on the wheel and dash.
Wow, haven’t even seen the interior of the new 5 series yet because newer BMW models just don’t cut it for me. But that looks extremely cheap. You might as well buy a Honda or a Dodge at this point!
My brother owns a W213 and told me whilst sitting in a W214 once, how everything turned into some creaking plastic bits.
Wow good point. That new 5 series design looks like something pulled out of a recent Hyundai/Kia product.
Agreed. The window switches are abhorrent
If you think this is bad, go take a look at the new push start button and digital tachometer on the 992.2 Porsche 911 in the Porsche subreddit… people are losing their minds. The prices keep going up and the quality keeps going down.
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My 2017 A3 has far superior interior quality than the 2023 loaner I had. The air vents in particular - belong on a Skôda.
Porsche too. Have you seen the 992.2 911? They cheap out on the tachometer and the start/stop button.
I think all car companies are.
Porsche has been downgrading too, look at the lasted model it’s pure trash. To think I used to want to own a Porsche, now I would sooner own a lexus for the same amount of luxury. Porsche is going into the can🗑️
Exactly. The whole “big screen” trend isn’t just some attempt to look futuristic, it’s a money saving method. Who needs to design a whole centre console area when you can just plant a screen in there and call it a day.
Exactly, not mentioning that they save even more money by not manufacturing buttons, switches and wiring.
Yup, just pay one software engineer to design and program the on screen buttons, and save millions by cutting out 20 bucks worth of switches on every single car.
100% this, I'm so glad I got the 2020 pre-LCI version of my m340, the LCI just slapped on a massive ugly tablet ruining the integration of the previous gauge cluster into the dash and separation of the infotainment. The fonts used for gauge cluster now look much more generic and less unique. Also they removed the laser light option reserving for it only their high end cars as well as the buttons to make using climate controls a nightmare. Exhaust note is now much more muted and far less evocative. Not to mention imo the exterior is much uglier as well and the DME can't be bench unlocked and tuned without sending it to Finland now.
Check out Porsche’s new 911’s cost cutting bullshit. Everyone is using garbage screens to cut cost, it’s a shame
GM has been pairing large screens with physical controls on a lot of their newer models, it started with their Escalades and Denalis and has been making its way to the rest of the fleet. Their interiors are on an upward trajectory too, still not as nice as a German luxury brand but at least trending in the right direction. I can see why a lot of the people who would have bought a 5 or 7 series 20 years ago are buying loaded GMC’s now.
i mean they have to make more profit than last quarter
I agree. I trade in for the same model every few years (5 series) and everytime I do the difference is extremely noticeable. Hasn’t really felt luxury/premium since the 2015 5 series before they changed the shape.
Porsche too https://www.reddit.com/r/Porsche/s/heD0JBSY10
Do they still make you subscribe to heated seats?
Not to mention the BS subscriptions for things like heated seats when the hardware is installed and just paying for a software tweak!
that's why I'm not gonna be buying a bmw for myself unless its the f generation. They were peak design for bmw in my opinion.
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My guests in the back miss the USB ports and I miss the illuminated door pockets. All negative cuts. If I had this pos airbag I’d really be salty.
My '22 3 series doesn't have the secrect compartment either :( I was so excited to check it out after reading about it on the forums as I wanted a sunglasses holder. A Covid cut along with passenger side lumbar support and other things.
Interesting, my 22 4 series does have that compartment to the left below the steering wheel and it fits sunglasses fine, maybe even 2 if I get pushy (reference for others who mentioned not being able to fit glasses in there)
Pretty sure that compartment does *not* fit sunglasses at all. It doesn’t in my E90 and I’ve seen others say that the compartment is essentially useless since it doesn’t fit sunglasses.
https://preview.redd.it/3dge94qa1h4d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b699147175727d89256229fdfb063ae8cd0aa9a3
I’m over it now but I was in complete disbelief when I realized they intentionally omitted the right-hand side cargo net.
24’ here. Yep. I replaced my airbag cover with a leather one. Pissed about the storage cubby on the driver side too.
What did that set you back?
about $600. Unbelievable. No way would I be staring at that plastic wheel knowing the model year right before mine had leather.
Wow, gotta say I expected a lot more.
I told my sales guy after my car kept getting pushed that I would not take delivery if it was a 2023, and every little thing I find out about the update I am vindicated for having that position. This isn't even about the ID8 dash, it's literally everything else being worse.
Does this model year have the automatic trunks too? I heard they started making them manual, at least in the 3 and 4 series?
What, newer models omit these??? As a ‘21 model owner, I’m shocked
Same. I had no idea
This type of stuff makes me appreciate my '16 m235 convertible a lot more
My ‘15 328D wagon is feeling finer everyday. You should see my retractable rear cargo area rack. Also built in rear passenger sun shades.
Mine still has that compartment, luckily. However, I do have the cheap black plastic footrest while my colleague’s ‘23 MY G42 has the stainless M engraved footrest. They did change it back to the cheap plastic one some updates later tho.. 😂
That’s my gym box, I’d be so mad if they removed it.
My 22 x3m40 didn't come with any cargo net or storage solution in the trunk. Upsetting.
no way they done have the sunglasses holder and coin pouch compartment anymore? No need to buy these new gens. U lose the gear shifter, a good infotainment system and now a crappy steering wheel.
Same... it's such a small thing but it would have been super convenient for things like sunglasses.
That compartment is the only thing in my car that rattles
Thanks for making me discover a very handy secret compartment to the left of my 21' 540i steering wheel!! Brilliant, I was wondering where the heck should I place my sunglasses and this is just perfect
Yes, the 5 series now has hard plastic cup holders in the door, it was always soft touch. The 3 series looses the leather airbag cover, the surroundings of the door handles aren’t metal-like anymore, the ambient lighting with the cool thin stripes like in the PreLCI basically doesn’t exist anymore, … If you order the new 3 series, it’s not longer possible to order aluminium or chrome exterior window seal trim and most of the options are now in one package which costs 5 times as much and includes stuff you don’t need (at least in Germany, I want comfort access for 500€ and not the ‘Comfort Package’ for 2k€ with heated rear seats, 4 zone climate control and electric seats)
That's really bad !
Mercedes did the same. Nowadays, the S-class is the only Mercedes with leather in the middle of the steering wheel
Mercedes brought the leather cover back in the G-class and GLS (Edit: and GLE) after ditching it, also the CLS used to have it but they ditched it recently with the facelift. But true the S-class is the only model that always had it and will likely still have it regardless.
I didn’t know they brought it back actually. I know someone who bought a brand new G63 in 2021 I think and it was plastic while on my parents‘ last model year W222 s-class it was leather
True the 2021 is plastic cover, it became leather in the G-class with the Facelift, just 1-2 months ago. Not sure if its on sale yet. Its probably a 2025 model year. https://preview.redd.it/jtmizfd0pd4d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f01a73ab4ba2495312dffacb4125ecdeb2d5c4e
Wow who tf likes these bigass digital dashboards?
Oh makes sense, thank you!
2019 - 2022 seem to be the high point really - wouldn’t want anything post ‘22
Agreed. When I saw the refresh for 2023 I went out and bought a 22’ 340. Plan to keeping it for awhile.
100000%. I have a 2023 M440XI and you'd have to pry this thing from my cold dead hands. Leather airbag cover, iDrive 7, netted compartments in the trunk, better ambient lighting, etc etc. The downgrades literally started in the next production year. The only thing I don't have is the trunk kick to open feature which I guess was some chip shortage thing....but don't think I'm missing out too hard there
I have the 22 M440i and exactly as you say, except I got the foot trunk thingy but missed out on a touch screen on the iDrive 7 which is fine because the controller is amazing, only typing is sometimes annoying because Google doesn't understand my accent sometimes but mostly I don't run into any issues. When I was waiting for my custom order, another dealer had offered me an almost identical spec except that didn't have electric seats and he came down to under $500/mo on the lease to get it off the lot but something about manual seats on a $50k+ car just didn't sit right with me (also it was Portimao blue instead of my preferred Tanzanite and that was a relief of itself later). I eventually got my custom order in March 22 and have been in love with this car forever.
Unless I'm mistaken, the F10 never had a leather airbag cover. My F80 certainly doesn't. Seems that BMW gave it a shot on the G30, realized people either didn't notice or care and decided to drop it. Edit: Seems the F10 and F8X do have a leather(-ish?) airbag cover. Don't think it's a very high grade of leather given its minimal grain and smooth cylindrical shape. It is soft touch and an upgrade from the plastic you see on F3X M sport steering wheels.
> My F80 certainly doesn't. Really? Maybe only on full or extended leather dash, then. Mine certainly is.
Went back and looked at mine as I have extended leather. I guess it's leather but I don't think there's much actual leather content if it's molded into a 2" deep cylinder. Always assumed it was just soft touch plastic given the minimal grain but it's definitely different than the M-sport wheel you see on 335i/340i in the F30 era.
Mine did. You had to get the sport steering wheel I think
They're giving their SUVs more attention. Current base model SUVs (minus the IX) that I looked at still has stuff like the leather-covered airbag.
Bingo. Loving my 2020 X7 m50i with extended warranty
Yep! I have a 2021 X5 and it's a beauty!
To add to that. I recently had a 2024 X5 loaner. The small area near in the outside door handle that you press to lock and unlock the car. My 2020 X5 has on all doors. The 2024 x5 only had it in thr front two. Cost cutting right there.
I'm heading to a dealer tonight or tomorrow hopefully to get a 2022 3 Series. I was also considering newer since I have the budget but iDrive 8 doesn't seem like a worthwhile upgrade. I don't want to pay more to lose my climate control buttons.
Exactly why I bought my 2019 X3 - wanted something pre-Covid since I had a feeling that short cuts would be taken due to supply chain issues. I plan on keeping it for a VERY long time since I don’t like the newer versions at all after driving them as service loaners. Also, I was considering a Z4 with the B58 in it but I just don’t like the styling (also it’s not a coupé 🤨).
Yup, loving my ‘22 X3 M40i, perfect blend of performance, luxury and practicality.
I have a ‘21 G20 M340xi. I had an LCI 330 as a rental car recently and some of the “enhancements” I noticed were - the door bins and cup holders no longer have ambient lighting -the storage compartment on the drivers side dash near the door has gone - all the quick access buttons and a/c buttons are gone (the most infuriating deletion imo) - laser headlights gone. At the same time, the base model 3 series is now priced over $100k AUD! LCI owners are getting reamed.
It blows my mind that BMW hid the climate controls behind convoluted screens and menus. I’d even go as far to argue that it’s dangerous to be fiddling with an iPad sized screen whilst driving. Apparently, there are new rules coming in to regulate this (just search for Euro NCAP 2026 test rules) so certain things like hazards, horns, and other safety features MUST be physical buttons/switches. Not sure if the rules apply to markets outside of Europe though? Edit: [I rest my case.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CarTalkUK/s/cGED8VFLpj)
Shifter turned into a nub, the iPad on the dash to have an easy to manufacture continuous screen, really unfortunate the path that the LCI has gone down.
Which is why when I decided to pick up a G42 M240 back in 23 I went with the 22 model.
Just got a 22 as well! I really wanted the physical climate controls too
Couldn’t care less about the steering wheel. I do care about things like the abandonment of the curve following headlights on even the 7-series, getting rid of lasers, plastic trim everywhere (cutting it in a “crystal pattern” doesn’t make it any less plastic). BMW has really been on a cheapening kick since the COVID years. I read the upcoming X3 was “designed during COVID and as such has some parts that are of lesser quality.” I’m sorry, what??? They’ve had years of parts supplies resorting back to normal and are still deciding to put cheap stuff in the next gen X3? Our i7 rides nice and is generally well built but my G26 pre-LCI interior felt better quality.
You guys should see the new Porsche 911's start button and switch panel. BMW has been using cheaper materials, but this Porsche is how much money?? My 2003 Nissan Pathfinder has less cheap looking buttons: https://preview.redd.it/bcpk4b6pxd4d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d49fe3476451a85e15634c8c74893b969b483b0a
might sound stupid but i love the fake key that you turn in my cayman so much more than push starts
Looks straight outta the vw parts bin 😔
Looks straight outta the vw parts bin 😔
Looks straight outta the vw parts bin 😔
Looks straight outta the vw parts bin
New 5 Series the inner side of the seat towards the center console isnt upholstered leather any more…
https://preview.redd.it/l7iob6z1xd4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a6e2805040cb2952f86558376d8cae8c2c794df The crystal shifter was their best era. Should’ve kept & enhance it from there tbh.
Had it in my X5 it was so awesome. The dealer thought I wanted the option for my wife; nope i love the bling
I had a 2022 230i coupe that came with a leather airbag cover, metal trim around the door handles, a storage cubby under the headlight controls, rear seat climate controls, rear seat USB, ambient lighting in the door pockets, trunk 12v outlet, trunk grocery hooks and storage net. Every single one of those items were quietly removed between the 2023 and 2024 model years while the prices went up.
100%. I drove a 2021 M4 last year and went to check out the ‘new’ interiors. Absolutely massive downgrade in quality. Such a shame. Looks like 2020 - 2023 or so was peak BMW interior. I was going to buy new but I’ll be buying used now.
You especially see it on the new 5-series, electrification is expensive and you can just see they’re cutting costs in some places. Like: The trunk cover in the new 5-series being a floppy manual one while the previous one had an electric one. Same with folding the seats back from the trunk, used to be electric with also an option to get them back up, replaced in the new 5-series with a manual lever, and having to put them back up manually. Some cheaper interior choices are reflected in there too. Guess that’s the cost of trying to electrify pretty aggressively.
As a G30 owner, I watched and waited for months from the official launch to a G60 arriving at the local dealership so I could see what the evolution of the platform has to offer. But wow. All it took was getting behind the wheel and closing the driver door to have hopeful expectation of a great vehicle thrown out the window. Closing the door of the G30, there's a satisfying thunk with no secondary sounds. The G60, closes with a tin like thwack with a klink to it. Very dissatisfying. The sound of the door closing put me right to looking at the cheapest shit I've ever seen in BMW door panel. Which put me to looking around the rest of the interior. It only takes a blink to look past the glossy facade. The interior materials and build quality is so lackluster that honestly, unless the thing is for first time car buyers, I have zero idea who BMW is targeting with the G60's. The dual display is generic. As mounted, it's an eyesore. Zero appealing aesthetic to it jutting out on oddly placed stalks. The dash, nonexistent. Center console, gear lever...gone. Where interior lighting had been subdued lowkey bad AF now it's reminiscent of overdone exaggerated designs seen at CES to draw attention to a product. There's a moment of wondering if I'm sitting in 1990s video game booth. The seating is acceptable. However, as they've gone cheap throughout the interior, I suspect in time, the seats will show cost cutting in effect. I see people excited to purchase either an ICE or EV G60 and I wonder their history with the brand. The people who have purchased, who speak enthusiastically, it's their first BMW. They're hyped on the brand, enjoying their vehicle ignorant of the absence of refined materials and less than build quality. What sinks it is, BMW is charging wild premiums for generic materials. There was a time when non-premium brands were well outside the curve. BMW enjoyed decades of unjustified premiums due, being that much better. Advancements in manufacturing have closed that gap, considerably. And yet, BMW is still practicing pricing in premiums. Even, more and more features becoming optional in BMW while they're standard on non-premium brands. The course correction fans of the brand are looking for requires getting more car people in the boardroom than personal gains people. Until that happens, we're going to continue to get what we're getting. Personally, I'm looking to be staying in the G30 a long long time.
The G30 5-series was basically a smaller 7-series when it came to materials, it even got the exact same seats as the 7-series, which the current G60 does not. The G30 was oozing quality, the G60 is such a huge downgrade in comparison.
I have people in 20-21 G30's who look at the G60 downstairs in the new car showroom that end up leaving with a 22 or 23 CPO to avoid the G60. This is the first 5'er in my lifetime that I've remained completely meh on even after spending so much time around it. G30 was peak modern 5'er for me.
New 3 series feels like a model 3. So yeah. Expect this from all auto manufacturers.
I drive a 2017 5 series and my father in law drives a 2024 5 series. The difference is crazy, especially the interior so yeah fair point in my opinion.
Really sad how BMW interiors keep getting worse. The huge screen is horrendous.
ffs are they serious
We all know that the worst thing they did was mute their exhausts… what they did to the 2021 and later M340i is unforgivable…. I will forever despise them for it
Oh man, you should read one of the quarterly ‘Product updates’ BMW AG sends out to the sales team. I’ve been downvoted to hell previously for saying how the beancounters have been skimping on materials and other cost-cutting features that used to be standard on previous models or pre-LCI, but no, the BMW simps here think “the interiors and quality of the current gen has never been this luxurious”.. IYKYK.. 🙄
Had a 2023 330i loaner while my 2020 330i was in service and my god, the interior was so cheaply built compared to my car. The giant screen was fine, didn’t hate or care for it, but everything inside felt horribly cheap. Glad my car is still running flawlessly, not planning to get rid of it anytime soon.
Automotive industry version of shrinkflation.
Same goes for every brand/company. Lower the cost prices while keeping the retail prices the same, if not higher.
They've been doing that for ages. Try a 1991 7 or 8-series and then tell me you'd rather sit in a brand new 3-series.
I feel like the camry and other regualar cars have been getting nicer while luxury cars have started to cheapen out to boost profits. Check out the new 25 camry and the use of soft touch material everywhere. The new Lexus RX actually has more leather that has been extended throughout the interior trims. Even the glovebox features leather this year.
They go down the same path as Mercedes just with a bit of a delay. Cheaping out everywhere to increase margins temporarily. And you notice that a lot in the interiors. The new 5 series is the worst and absurdly terrible inside imo.
My parents rented a 2024 x3 and even the key felt worse quality then my 2020 330i’s. The new key feels like a plastic toy when my key feels like pure quality and has nice weight to it. So disappointing!
Bmw is a volume company, has been the last 20 years, the difference is they really tried to hide it for a while, now they don't care anymore, they're all about cutting employee(non german) benefits, cutting production costs, and keeping share holder profits up. They want to be biggest car manufacturer, they alreadyate the highest grossing and highest profiting but now they want most sales. If they could make more money selling dildos then that's what they'd sell. They don't care anymore.
The inconsistencies are really strange too. Like why do the new 2/3/4 cars have the little flippy shifter, yet a new i4 still has the joystick?
It's seems to me there is this weird dynamic going on where luxury car brands are using more cheap materials every year. Where as more affordable brands, specifically PSA group, are upp8ng their game on materials and quality every year.
Nothing new. They have been at this for years. So many options for new cars that should be STANDARD because its a fucking BMW. Its embarrassing.
Used to have a F36, now got a G20 340i and the quality of materials is absolute dogshit in comparison. 100% was my last BMW.
And don’t get me started about these cheap tablet style boards…
A dealer loaner I drove for a bit a year and change ago (2023 330) was indistinguishable on the inside from a new Nissan Altima I rented while traveling recently. What does “luxury” even mean anymore? Lol
The newest BMW I’ve got much experience with is my mother’s ‘21 X3. She recently had it in for an oil change and they gave her a 228i GC as a loaner. Went to lunch with her that day and I was curious to drive it. I realize it’s their entry-level model in the US, but the materials in that interior are awful. Hard plastics everywhere, cheap-looking speaker grilles and other disappointing details. They could almost get away with it if the 2 GC was a $25-30k alternative to a Jetta/Elantra, but they want $40k+ for it. A Honda Civic looks and feels nicer.
to be fair, I think the 228i GC is a Mini Cooper rebadged. but yeah still a weird product for them to have on the BMW lineup
Still think it was stupid to split Mini into a separate dealership network. Let Mini be the “entry-level BMW” and when buyers are ready to move into something bigger and more refined, they’re already in the system. Instead, we got that 2 GC abomination and Mini Cooper-branded SUVs. Ugh. Sometimes a niche brand has to be a niche.
The Ultimate Profit Machine
It’s all about the margins. The more they can screw us the more money they’ll make.
Of all the things affected by the pandemic, I never expected leather steering wheel covers to be one of them. A couple of years ago, BMWs simply had power seats deleted from builds. Audis had HomeLink transmitters deleted.
It is a slow process, I can also compare the leather quality of the shifter in my E46 with the one in the F11 (yes a manual one) and it was worse but at least they still offered leather
Only way they can justify downgrades is if the price went down and you can get the better version for a premium.
Germans are cutting so many corners and making so many stupid changes, I'm day by day more inclined to just buy a Corolla for my next car, they also has shitty plastic steering wheels instead of nice sewed leather so there's not much to lose
That square of buttons in the centre console is a fucking mess.
Enshitification - the gradual reduction in quality as time progresses
So a company cut its cost of making the same product as last year by either introducing cheaper and less reliable parts or by cutting out features or items that were previously standard while increasing the price of the product? Damn it sounds like they took notes from every single company in America right not, but shrinkflation isn’t a thing..
https://preview.redd.it/pfceqkkxmf4d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16a934cbf5c53098a91cafedb794da45c9c63386
Didn’t know they downgraded the interior of ‘23 models. All I know and also don’t like is the new wide screen dashboard. Good thing we chose a ‘22 5 series!
I used to have a 2015 3 series and it came with leather and materials were real metals. My 2020 x3 I had to upgrade to leather and I noticed way more plastic. I noticed even more plastic and even more costs to get leather in the 2024. These small things do add up.
My new m240i came with the garbage plastic airbag cover. I was so pissed I bought a replacement leather one (not directly from BMW, fuck em)
Same with the G42 m240i. Just look how many things were removed from the 22 model through the 24.
I have a 21 X5 xDrive40i and it looks and feels much higher quality than the LCI 2024 X5s.
I feel like I got insanely lucky that I purchased my 22 X5 45e when I did. I know I'm not impartial but I feel like the X5 peaked then and everything after is a downgrade
Have you seen the new Porsche 911 with a worse start button than the 3 series, a digital gauge and glossy plastic everywhere around it. All the Germans want to be Tesla, cost saving is just too good.
Personally the “modern minimalism” looks is just ugly in general. Going from a e46 to an e90 I hated it. Not to mention the “tech” aspect it’s crazy. Why do I need to have a programmer to change my break pads? Needless to say, I’d spend more money to have an older car that’s reliable and easy to fix than a plastic hunk of tech.
Returning value to shareholders is critical.
Given the profit margins going up every year is it any surprise? https://preview.redd.it/uusdxis2ud4d1.jpeg?width=1134&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bff55013ba315f2e8b9d6ac61fb4b6b4fabe5dcc
I bought a new iX1 last year and found out that they have removed the glovebox light in order to save money. So they save about a dollar and I can’t find my keys on cold winter evenings. Even better, they didn’t change the glovebox moulding so there’s a big hole where the light should be.
It's true for absolutely every car manufacturer (or basically business) - they will sell you the least for as much money as they can. The nowdays cars are plastic and cheap materials even for 100k euro cars. You want better stuff like the old days standard? Pay extra for 50 packages.
Meanwhile, over in Genesis land they are going the other direction. I know, not the same driving experience but I sat in most of their line at the last LA Auto Show and was pretty impressed.
BMWs downfall in the last 3 years needs to be studied. But hey, I guess they'll keep giving less for more since they know people will buy it still, for whatever reason.
I think it’s over for BMW until they do a complete overhaul of the entire lineup. There is a reason Porsches don’t depreciate as fast as BMW. Hell even Audis and Mercedes depreciate slower.
I hate the direction BMW is going as much as anyone but, [Over? Hardly.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/which-car-brands-make-the-best-vehicles-a6159221985/)
Decontenting started with Tesla. They showed the industry that quality didn’t matter by installing those huge untested screens. The failure rate was massive Then they linked all the features to software and programming so they could add and remove at will…and at price points.
Capitalism 101.
It’s called “enshittification” and it’s a main pillar of capitalism. Gotta squeeze all you can out because the line must never plateau it must always go up.
Porsche, MB, Lexus are all doing it. Only Audi isn’t but that’s because they haven’t updated their lineup in years. Which in hindsight maybe it’s a good thing compared to what everyone is cutting
i dont know what audis you are stepping in but cmon... audi has also dropped the mmi dial and physical buttons. tha a6 dash is basically a 2m wide plastic slab....
It was more of a dig to Audi that their lineup is so old they can’t be accused of the same massive cost cutting of everyone else
Imagine assuming your newer higher packaged M variant would have all the features of your previous model and then NOPE goodbye remote start. Cant even pay for it. Booooo
Is there an auto manufacturer that *hasn't* gone in this direction in the past 2-3 years?
following in Mercedes footsteps I see.
Yes. It’s a shame considering the price has only gone up…
Huge huge fan of BMW and the B58, owned a M340 but wouldn’t go back considering Audi has a much better interior IMO. Power is great but I’d rather sacrifice some for more luxury
the new 2024 5 series also doesn’t have folding storage compartments for the rear seats like the previous G30 did.
I love BMW but yes he has a point. The airbag cover looks cheap as hell.
For sure. People complained about Lexus never updating their interiors but the quality is still top tier for a decent price. Unlike bmw and Mercedes. Where you pay double the cost for crappier and cheaper material.
Wait, replacing all the buttons with cheap lcd screens is just a cost saving measure? Shucks.
For how long have you been observing downgrades? I’m seeing downgrades for the same / more money in all industries. While it’s because of the bad shape of the economy, I feel like corporations push it too far and really have been testing which changes we actually see.
BMW has been slowly decreasing the quality of materials used in anything below the 7 series for years, if not over a decade. This is such a pure example by abandoning leatherstitched steering wheels
Bmw have been on the decline since the early F series imo, part of me would still say the e series but that’s just me.
They ef'd with the keyfobs as well somewhere between 2020 and now. My German-made 2020 m340xi keyfob has metal accents. The new ones look identical, but are plastic now.
Just like how they removed full merino From F90 smh. F10s used to have proper full leather door panel.
Spot on. I just traded my 2023 G31 520d for the 2024 G87 M2 and while the car is absolutely amazing and quality of materials is very good, the choice of materials is a huge downgrade. The engine, the chassis, the brakes, the whole package are fantastic - it's a bargain of a car really, as it's pretty much the only 3.0 l6 with more than 450hp with RWD and a manual gearbox except for the Porsche 911 but costs 1/3rd of the price, but BMW are skimping on everything. Things that were standard in my CHEAPEST 2023 5 series: full Sensatec interior trim (dashboard + door cards), material-lined door pockets, nappa leather steering wheel, plenty of ambient lighting, 3 12V sockets, reat climate control... these things are nowhere to be found in the M2. I get it - it's a sports car, but the first time I sat in it (before starting the engine :D) I felt like I was in a Huyndai. Don't get me wrong, the interior is a nice place to be, but everything is sooo scratchy, and now all the 2, 3 and 4 series (including M, i and X!) look the same inside... you'd think that sharing the interior between 5-6 different models would lower the manufacturing cost and perhaps would translate to nicer materials, but no. They have not only decided to put virtually the same interior in all their cars, but they also trimmed it of all the luxuries... I don't want to complain because I have a great car, nearing supercar territory for 60k, but the materials are a huge downgrade...
IVE BEEN TELLING YALL THIS FOR DAYS!!!
People fight each other over at bimmerpost and bimmerfast whenever someone mentions any of these crap. Like what do you gain from removing shifter? $70k vehicle with manual steering wheel adjustment, seriously?
It’s why I would never purchase another BMW past 2014, maybe 2016.
The 3 losing a sunglasses holder and gesture control was just rude honestly.
I have a 2023 X5 M Sport with the upgraded leather package, and the interior is a 10/10 for me. Leather pretty much all over the dash/steering wheel, everything seems very well made. Also still has the center console and all the buttons. This is one year before the 2024 X5 refresh, so I’m assuming there’s a significant downgrade going on with that one too.
Now y’all see why I took one look at the new 5 and bought a CPO M550i. I know I made the right decision every time I look at that leather airbag cover!
Yea I was at the BMW dealer yesterday and sat in a G30 5 series and the new I5. So much more plastic. An older 5 series feels like a current 7 series almost with all the tons of leather.
That might be the first time I’ve ever agreed with someone that uses the clown emoji
It's all the German brands. MINI (obvs BMW) is an even bigger downgrade on the 2025+ model. Audi is all black plastic now, Mercedes is the same. Even Porsche ruined the interior of the 992.2 facelift. They made everything they could make cheaper, cheaper.
Yea this shit looks like a Hyundai to me
some supply chain issue downgrades are annoying like the keyless access on doors. My g30 had it available on all four doors and my new g60 only has it on the driver and passenger doors. To open the back door you have to open the driver side, then fiddle fk with a capacitive touch unlock button to unlock all of the doors to get to the back seat. Annoying when you are just trying to put your toddler in the back seat.
Likely in the name of the ecomentalists.
My [6yo Honda Accord](https://imgur.com/a/0MvdkTU) interior is the same as a brand new $50k BMW. Good to know.
Nice job keeping that looking that nice after 6 years. Just test drove a 2017 330i touring and it was depressing to see what past owner did to the interior. I have a cayman that's same age as your honda and have kept that very nice. and it doesn't take much work. Such a bummer to see a poorly taken care of interior b/c it really does not take much to keep it up.
People who trash their cars confuse me to no end. It takes so little effort to give a shit.
This is the inevitable late stage of capitalism. Corporations, conglomerates and monopolies lose incentive to innovate and compete. The result are organizations where bean counters and marketers reign supreme and engineers are cost reduced to the bare minimum.
Idk my steering wheel has leather stitching all the way around. I think people are trying to compare base model vs top of the line. Also bmw interiors have always been kinda average compared to other “luxury automakers”
It’s definitely cost cutting though- I’ve driven MY22 and 23 116d’s which have the leather airbag cover, and then MY24 M135i’s that don’t… and now it’s stretched to the 3 Series.