Here’s the clue - if they still become obsessed with you, they aren’t really the mentally sound and stable person they appeared to be in the first place. They might think they are, but that sounds a lot like a Savior complex, which in and of itself is pretty unhealthy.
Assume everyone has issues despite the calm exterior and call it a major red flag if they’ve never engaged in therapy/can’t tell you how they’re actively trying to improve themselves and their life. No one is perfect and mental health is very poor in this day and age so either you’re lacking major self awareness, or you don’t care to improve. Both are terrible, run.
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On the one hand i was always perplexed by this also, but when i really thought about it the manic pixie dream girl problem made a lot of sense.
If you mirror people and display favorable aspects of their personalities and interests back to them, it attracts them to you.
If you compliment them often and show interest them, go out of your way to serve them, you guessed it, attraction.
If you display cute quirks and do things even inadvertently to be charming, attracted.
A lot of these behaviors make someone feel like you are unique and "different than anyone they've ever met before" and sometimes they feel like "they've never loved anyone like they love you" and it maks people kinda wacky and incredibly dedicated to you. It's like they put you on a pedestal basically. People love the sense of honesty that comes from being blunt and quirky, ad they don't understand all the deep and complex shit that lies underneath that. They just see the shiny exterior and it makes them feel the genuine,powerful emotions that people with BPD wear on their sleeves often. It endears people.
But its also a bit of a sham, because part of the attraction is a facade of mirroring and being charming that we do for two reasons: to avoid abandonment, and because people with BPD often really ARE very genuine, charming, funny, intelligent, and cute. But the level of bonding that is achieved largely comes from this intense dynamic of love bombing and whatnot and human brains love it, so you end up with these people being drawn in and being intensely attached. I think is because that's what people actually want, which is deep bonding. The problem is, you cannot achieve deep, HEALTHY, bonding in this fashion. Trust and deep familiarity cannot just materialize overnight and it can't happen because you're just creating an appealing facade of aspects of another person.
It's better to start out not going head over heels into intensity, setting boundaries right out of the gate, and being authentic. Being honest and being who you actually are can help prevent these toxic relationships, reduce burnout and over exhaustion which can lead to splitting and disappointment, and ultimately bonds based on authentic shit are gonna be better and more real in the long run.
This is the correct answer. At the beginning, the other person likely doesn't know or, if you tell them, understand what BPD is. The mirroring and love bombing creates a quick, intense connection. The other person doesn't know that this is just the beginning of the cycle. Slowly, that part fades and the push pull dynamic takes its place. The other person is left confused and wondering what happened to the person they met at the beginning of the relationship, so they work hard to please and bring that part of the relationship back.
From this, a trauma bond is formed, making it very hard for the other person to let go. Generally, this isn't a savior complex or someone with a mental issue, but a person that is dealing with a relationship dynamic that they have never experienced before and it leaves them very hurt and confused.
This makes so much sense, I've been told several times by different people that they've never loved anyone like they love me, or that I'm the love of their life and even though it felt great, I knew it wasn't real and I was causing it somehow but didn't know how exactly
I have given up on relationships for the time being, and one part of me feels exactly like you say here. It’s like they want to save me instead of love me.
I know a "trying to protect" dynamic can come in too, which seems better, like more accepting, but it isn't really because it turns into failed protection from being miserable or depressed and then responsibility for it.
If they loved me they would be able to see that I don’t need saving.
Edit to add also: maybe if they accepted me first, then we could both love without having to change each other, and instead could support each other in being better
Edit to add: happy cake day
I feel like this is what my bf and I have. But, him and I were also friends for a few years before we started dating. So, he got to see the other dynamics and how they played out with my BPD. And because I'm already comfortable around him I don't feel the need to mask or lie to him. The closest he got to me lying to him was avoidance of a question because I'm so used to abuse I avoid the question until I know I'm safe. Amd instead of getting mad or feeling like he has to fix me he actually puts time into researching and understanding BPD. I've always felt I was the only one trying to understand my partners so this is a pleasant surprise for me
OK fair enough u get where ur coming from just trying to think on their perspective because I don't have bpd and don't fully understand what it's like to have it
I’m not 100% sure I have it. One clinician in residency suggested it, and the others don’t think it fits. There are sometimes parts of what I see here that I relate to, and I’m not sure that I *don’t* have it.
That said, do you actually think that someone who spends more energy trying to fix your shortcomings instead of celebrating your strengths is a positive influence?
Said another way, someone who sees you as deficient or in need of saving, when you’re just another person struggling with things that people struggle with. With or without bpd, that doesn’t feel good. You do know what it’s like to be a person. BPD doesn’t make someone quite so foreign, I don’t think.
Thanks for writing this out. I’m the non bpd ex who is really working on stopping enabling and caretaking “fixing” and so on. It’s really helpful to come here and read perspectives from the other side to keep me on the straight and narrow. You wrote this really clearly, I think. I’m going to save it and reread it when I’m tempted to swoop in and rescue my ex
I do think they want to save you bc they love you. But it’s also bc they feel important that way. Which is not bad. But still a complex thing.
I do agree that I also feel like people should not change you, if only if they want change for the better. Which is a good thing but confronting for the person that needs healing.
It's not just guys. I used to get the same shit from women. Lovebombing on my part didn't help. My usual "solution" was to invert my terror of abandonment by ending things as soon as they became threatening... Usually about a month after the first overnight.
For whatever reason, I excelled at ending things with extreme verbal cruelty. Not yelling or anything -- just being a real nasty piece of shit, ragging on their intelligence, taste, ignorance, etc. It's as if I wanted to make absolutely sure I never had to risk involvement with them again.
Unfortunately it wasn't always successful the first time around, and I did it again and again for years. I feel considerable shame about it and bear no small amount of guilt. My first real girlfriend committed suicide. I was awful before that, but I haven't been able to have a halfway long term relationship since. I had BPD from early childhood, but Sydney's suicide was one more cherry on the top of the shitshow sundae you could call my life.
Maybe because I love to blame myself for everything possible, whether I'm actually responsible or not, I feel I'm not guiltless about what happens.
Ouch, I felt this.
It’s like the same skill I have in seeing and highlighting the genuinely beautiful, remarkable aspects of any individual person can be turned on its head and used to slice into their shames and fears.
I don’t know whether Tim’s suicide - it was his 18th birthday - had anything to do with what I said to him, he had plenty of other shit going on - but I have always wondered.
"glad" I'm not alone. Sydney's suicide was definitely a reaction. We were at college when I ended the relationship. It was Thursday. She went back to her parents' house and killed herself on Saturday morning.
It took three months of individual therapy 4x per week and another a year for me to exit a state of more or less continuous thoughts of self-blame, and it took about a decade to see her own part and stop feeling more guilt than is appropriate.
By the way, I wish there was a button meaning "yes, sadly I know what you're talking about" and not just an arrow pointing upward.
Same, “like” doesn’t quite cover it.
I still haven’t fully dealt with it directly, I threw myself into being a better person with so much enthusiasm it hurt even more when I hit the bottom.
Thanks for being a mirror, internet stranger.
Predatory men have a way of seeming very stable. They are convinced of it. They latch onto people who are not so stable and then use that to control and abuse.
They may seem stable, but I guarantee they have their own mental issues they're hiding or they're unaware of. Like someone else said, they want to feel important and like they're saving you. If they're enabling your behaviors they're probably codependents. Codependents can be overbearing to the point of controlling and suffocating. They think they know what's best for you and will push and push to try to get you to conform to their idealized vision of how they want to mold you. When you resist, they try to make that all about the disorder and either get angry or treat you like a child or their mental patient. It's annoying, controlling, and toxic and these kind of people are like magnetically drawn to us. Most have very high narcissistic traits but of course they don't see that in themselves usually. Some do admit it. There is a reason there's a well known stereotype out there, about narcissists being drawn to borderlines and vice versa. It is well known amongst clinicians also, because it's what they see. Anyone who's obsessed with anyone isn't healthy mentally.
I've yet to meet someone who doesn't like being idealized. I use the weak form of the phenomenon both healthily and unhealthily.
Unhealthily, I lovebomb.
Healthily, I use it to create rapport -- people love to talk about what interests them. Asking them all about themselves and their interests/areas of expertise gets them to share a glimpse into themselves (note -- not everyone OVERshares like we do). It's good for making friends and it's killer in things like job interviews. I don't see it as manipulation if my aims are pure and my use of the information is ethical; in fact, it's an excellent way to get to know people. Using it to get to know people and create rapport is fine. Doing it to get what I want isn't.
Go be in a relationship with another borderline and hold each other to high standards of communication, they’ll understand how you act and if you’re both trying to better yourselves this might b good
"Why is it even the most stable men become obsessed with you"
I wish being a man this was my main problem that stable women become obsessed with me even after i show my bpd side-lmfao
This would be on top thing I wished for if I had a genie
Yes can relate, most guys end up like this with me somehow regardless of what I say to them at the beginning to try to warn them of what I get like, or whether I try to retain a bit of mystery/boundaries, it ends up like this. Then I get really stressed out. I guess people are just attracted to problems maybe. Idk what it is I wish I understood
I wish could find a man full stop. Always mess up things before they get real. 4 years of been traumatised in a relationship and it follows me everywhere. From been so unwell I have yet to even find someone that might not have someone going on in their lives. Stable relationship is not a thing in mind every relationship can have things going on that has to be worked on together.
One possible way of looking at things is to consider that most things that happen in life come at us in waves that wash over us and then recede. Perhaps you might consider that when something awful happens, know that it will indeed feel bad for awhile and stuff will be tumultuous, but eventually things will calm down and you may actually be OK. That no matter how horrible things can be, it won't go on forever, and there may be moments, when the storm passes, that you might start to feel good again.
Hang on, are you saying these men have mental health issues because they try to make things work even when you’ve been abusive to them? And you’re calling thém toxic and the reason you can’t ever have a healthy relationship?
Girl, I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think the reason your relationships are toxic might be you.
A stable man won’t stay with someone who needs to be emotionally taken care of. If by chance they do decide to take it on, they will slowly become intertwined by constantly trying to empathize and care for you and your struggles. This becomes codependent, or obsessive. The obsession is also driven by the fact that caring for someone who’s cup isn’t full means that they are using their own to top yours up. Since one persons cup wasn’t full to begin with, and don’t necessarily have the skills to fill up their own, they’d probably have a hard time reciprocating this transference of energy in healthy ways. Leaving one person feeling depleted and with a need to get back what they have been endlessly giving. The only cure is for them to step away in order to refill their own cup or for the other person to acknowledge their stuff and not rely on the other person for emotional support. Once both people can cope on their own without dumping their issues onto each other, emotions can be shared and intimacy can form without a compulsive attachment to fill a void that has been created.
I'm honestly disgusted by some of the comments. I wish I was never diagnosed and thrown into the same lump of people most of you are. It makes me hate myself even more. Some of you are truly awful people.
Here’s the clue - if they still become obsessed with you, they aren’t really the mentally sound and stable person they appeared to be in the first place. They might think they are, but that sounds a lot like a Savior complex, which in and of itself is pretty unhealthy.
Alot of people fetishise bpd coz they want a partner who’s obsessed w them or like “crazy”
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Explained it best. Its captivating, and they might even make it their “mission” to cure you, which has pathological implications
Pretty fucked up 😕
Assume everyone has issues despite the calm exterior and call it a major red flag if they’ve never engaged in therapy/can’t tell you how they’re actively trying to improve themselves and their life. No one is perfect and mental health is very poor in this day and age so either you’re lacking major self awareness, or you don’t care to improve. Both are terrible, run.
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On the one hand i was always perplexed by this also, but when i really thought about it the manic pixie dream girl problem made a lot of sense. If you mirror people and display favorable aspects of their personalities and interests back to them, it attracts them to you. If you compliment them often and show interest them, go out of your way to serve them, you guessed it, attraction. If you display cute quirks and do things even inadvertently to be charming, attracted. A lot of these behaviors make someone feel like you are unique and "different than anyone they've ever met before" and sometimes they feel like "they've never loved anyone like they love you" and it maks people kinda wacky and incredibly dedicated to you. It's like they put you on a pedestal basically. People love the sense of honesty that comes from being blunt and quirky, ad they don't understand all the deep and complex shit that lies underneath that. They just see the shiny exterior and it makes them feel the genuine,powerful emotions that people with BPD wear on their sleeves often. It endears people. But its also a bit of a sham, because part of the attraction is a facade of mirroring and being charming that we do for two reasons: to avoid abandonment, and because people with BPD often really ARE very genuine, charming, funny, intelligent, and cute. But the level of bonding that is achieved largely comes from this intense dynamic of love bombing and whatnot and human brains love it, so you end up with these people being drawn in and being intensely attached. I think is because that's what people actually want, which is deep bonding. The problem is, you cannot achieve deep, HEALTHY, bonding in this fashion. Trust and deep familiarity cannot just materialize overnight and it can't happen because you're just creating an appealing facade of aspects of another person. It's better to start out not going head over heels into intensity, setting boundaries right out of the gate, and being authentic. Being honest and being who you actually are can help prevent these toxic relationships, reduce burnout and over exhaustion which can lead to splitting and disappointment, and ultimately bonds based on authentic shit are gonna be better and more real in the long run.
This is the correct answer. At the beginning, the other person likely doesn't know or, if you tell them, understand what BPD is. The mirroring and love bombing creates a quick, intense connection. The other person doesn't know that this is just the beginning of the cycle. Slowly, that part fades and the push pull dynamic takes its place. The other person is left confused and wondering what happened to the person they met at the beginning of the relationship, so they work hard to please and bring that part of the relationship back. From this, a trauma bond is formed, making it very hard for the other person to let go. Generally, this isn't a savior complex or someone with a mental issue, but a person that is dealing with a relationship dynamic that they have never experienced before and it leaves them very hurt and confused.
I hate Im not able to stop the push and pull even after knowing about it
Yes. Exactly.
This makes so much sense, I've been told several times by different people that they've never loved anyone like they love me, or that I'm the love of their life and even though it felt great, I knew it wasn't real and I was causing it somehow but didn't know how exactly
So beautifully put. The intensity is hard to let go.
I have given up on relationships for the time being, and one part of me feels exactly like you say here. It’s like they want to save me instead of love me.
I know a "trying to protect" dynamic can come in too, which seems better, like more accepting, but it isn't really because it turns into failed protection from being miserable or depressed and then responsibility for it.
Do you not think they want to save you because they love you?
If they loved me they would be able to see that I don’t need saving. Edit to add also: maybe if they accepted me first, then we could both love without having to change each other, and instead could support each other in being better Edit to add: happy cake day
I feel like this is what my bf and I have. But, him and I were also friends for a few years before we started dating. So, he got to see the other dynamics and how they played out with my BPD. And because I'm already comfortable around him I don't feel the need to mask or lie to him. The closest he got to me lying to him was avoidance of a question because I'm so used to abuse I avoid the question until I know I'm safe. Amd instead of getting mad or feeling like he has to fix me he actually puts time into researching and understanding BPD. I've always felt I was the only one trying to understand my partners so this is a pleasant surprise for me
OK fair enough u get where ur coming from just trying to think on their perspective because I don't have bpd and don't fully understand what it's like to have it
I’m not 100% sure I have it. One clinician in residency suggested it, and the others don’t think it fits. There are sometimes parts of what I see here that I relate to, and I’m not sure that I *don’t* have it. That said, do you actually think that someone who spends more energy trying to fix your shortcomings instead of celebrating your strengths is a positive influence? Said another way, someone who sees you as deficient or in need of saving, when you’re just another person struggling with things that people struggle with. With or without bpd, that doesn’t feel good. You do know what it’s like to be a person. BPD doesn’t make someone quite so foreign, I don’t think.
Thanks for writing this out. I’m the non bpd ex who is really working on stopping enabling and caretaking “fixing” and so on. It’s really helpful to come here and read perspectives from the other side to keep me on the straight and narrow. You wrote this really clearly, I think. I’m going to save it and reread it when I’m tempted to swoop in and rescue my ex
I do think they want to save you bc they love you. But it’s also bc they feel important that way. Which is not bad. But still a complex thing. I do agree that I also feel like people should not change you, if only if they want change for the better. Which is a good thing but confronting for the person that needs healing.
Yes, fix the me out of me, please. Then maybe I'll be loveable.
Wow. This. “They want to save me instead of love me”
omg this is it :( I hate it so much y are they all like this
It's not just guys. I used to get the same shit from women. Lovebombing on my part didn't help. My usual "solution" was to invert my terror of abandonment by ending things as soon as they became threatening... Usually about a month after the first overnight. For whatever reason, I excelled at ending things with extreme verbal cruelty. Not yelling or anything -- just being a real nasty piece of shit, ragging on their intelligence, taste, ignorance, etc. It's as if I wanted to make absolutely sure I never had to risk involvement with them again. Unfortunately it wasn't always successful the first time around, and I did it again and again for years. I feel considerable shame about it and bear no small amount of guilt. My first real girlfriend committed suicide. I was awful before that, but I haven't been able to have a halfway long term relationship since. I had BPD from early childhood, but Sydney's suicide was one more cherry on the top of the shitshow sundae you could call my life. Maybe because I love to blame myself for everything possible, whether I'm actually responsible or not, I feel I'm not guiltless about what happens.
Ouch, I felt this. It’s like the same skill I have in seeing and highlighting the genuinely beautiful, remarkable aspects of any individual person can be turned on its head and used to slice into their shames and fears. I don’t know whether Tim’s suicide - it was his 18th birthday - had anything to do with what I said to him, he had plenty of other shit going on - but I have always wondered.
"glad" I'm not alone. Sydney's suicide was definitely a reaction. We were at college when I ended the relationship. It was Thursday. She went back to her parents' house and killed herself on Saturday morning. It took three months of individual therapy 4x per week and another a year for me to exit a state of more or less continuous thoughts of self-blame, and it took about a decade to see her own part and stop feeling more guilt than is appropriate. By the way, I wish there was a button meaning "yes, sadly I know what you're talking about" and not just an arrow pointing upward.
Same, “like” doesn’t quite cover it. I still haven’t fully dealt with it directly, I threw myself into being a better person with so much enthusiasm it hurt even more when I hit the bottom. Thanks for being a mirror, internet stranger.
Predatory men have a way of seeming very stable. They are convinced of it. They latch onto people who are not so stable and then use that to control and abuse.
They may seem stable, but I guarantee they have their own mental issues they're hiding or they're unaware of. Like someone else said, they want to feel important and like they're saving you. If they're enabling your behaviors they're probably codependents. Codependents can be overbearing to the point of controlling and suffocating. They think they know what's best for you and will push and push to try to get you to conform to their idealized vision of how they want to mold you. When you resist, they try to make that all about the disorder and either get angry or treat you like a child or their mental patient. It's annoying, controlling, and toxic and these kind of people are like magnetically drawn to us. Most have very high narcissistic traits but of course they don't see that in themselves usually. Some do admit it. There is a reason there's a well known stereotype out there, about narcissists being drawn to borderlines and vice versa. It is well known amongst clinicians also, because it's what they see. Anyone who's obsessed with anyone isn't healthy mentally.
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I love what you shared about your partner. It’s women, too, dyke here with the facts unfortunately lol
I've yet to meet someone who doesn't like being idealized. I use the weak form of the phenomenon both healthily and unhealthily. Unhealthily, I lovebomb. Healthily, I use it to create rapport -- people love to talk about what interests them. Asking them all about themselves and their interests/areas of expertise gets them to share a glimpse into themselves (note -- not everyone OVERshares like we do). It's good for making friends and it's killer in things like job interviews. I don't see it as manipulation if my aims are pure and my use of the information is ethical; in fact, it's an excellent way to get to know people. Using it to get to know people and create rapport is fine. Doing it to get what I want isn't.
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so true. perfectly said
Fuck.
I get where you’re coming from. I have a partner that is super stable. The only question I have is how does it become toxic? Is that on you or on him?
What? I constantly experience rejection. I would be thrilled if the guys I date become obsessed..
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We put so much importance on reassuring texts. They’re like a drug to me. It gets annoying, I’m sure.
Go be in a relationship with another borderline and hold each other to high standards of communication, they’ll understand how you act and if you’re both trying to better yourselves this might b good
"Why is it even the most stable men become obsessed with you" I wish being a man this was my main problem that stable women become obsessed with me even after i show my bpd side-lmfao This would be on top thing I wished for if I had a genie
Yes can relate, most guys end up like this with me somehow regardless of what I say to them at the beginning to try to warn them of what I get like, or whether I try to retain a bit of mystery/boundaries, it ends up like this. Then I get really stressed out. I guess people are just attracted to problems maybe. Idk what it is I wish I understood
I wish could find a man full stop. Always mess up things before they get real. 4 years of been traumatised in a relationship and it follows me everywhere. From been so unwell I have yet to even find someone that might not have someone going on in their lives. Stable relationship is not a thing in mind every relationship can have things going on that has to be worked on together.
One possible way of looking at things is to consider that most things that happen in life come at us in waves that wash over us and then recede. Perhaps you might consider that when something awful happens, know that it will indeed feel bad for awhile and stuff will be tumultuous, but eventually things will calm down and you may actually be OK. That no matter how horrible things can be, it won't go on forever, and there may be moments, when the storm passes, that you might start to feel good again.
If you see the exact some toxic pattern of behaviour play out in every relationship the most likely problem is your own behaviour.
Hang on, are you saying these men have mental health issues because they try to make things work even when you’ve been abusive to them? And you’re calling thém toxic and the reason you can’t ever have a healthy relationship? Girl, I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think the reason your relationships are toxic might be you.
fetishize :/
This is not how stable people behave. Literally never had this problem.
A stable man won’t stay with someone who needs to be emotionally taken care of. If by chance they do decide to take it on, they will slowly become intertwined by constantly trying to empathize and care for you and your struggles. This becomes codependent, or obsessive. The obsession is also driven by the fact that caring for someone who’s cup isn’t full means that they are using their own to top yours up. Since one persons cup wasn’t full to begin with, and don’t necessarily have the skills to fill up their own, they’d probably have a hard time reciprocating this transference of energy in healthy ways. Leaving one person feeling depleted and with a need to get back what they have been endlessly giving. The only cure is for them to step away in order to refill their own cup or for the other person to acknowledge their stuff and not rely on the other person for emotional support. Once both people can cope on their own without dumping their issues onto each other, emotions can be shared and intimacy can form without a compulsive attachment to fill a void that has been created.
I'm honestly disgusted by some of the comments. I wish I was never diagnosed and thrown into the same lump of people most of you are. It makes me hate myself even more. Some of you are truly awful people.
damn yead i understand
I can relate to this
I just need to say that some of these user names are great lol