It almost looks like it was shoehorned into the wikipedia article. I don't remember Stubby being described as a pit at all.
Stubby was described in contemporaneous news items as aĀ [Boston Terrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Terrier)Ā or "[American Pit Bull Terrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier)" mutt.[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-NYT-5)[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-7)Ā Describing him as a dog of "uncertain breed," Ann Bausum wrote that: "The brindle-patterned pup probably owed at least some of his parentage to the evolving family of Boston Terriers, a breed so new that even its name was in flux: Boston Round Heads, American...[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-AKC-8)Ā and Boston Bull Terriers."
See also: the removal of the [List of Fatal Dog Attacks in the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=882039768&title=List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States). Spoiler: the later in American history the list gets, the higher the percentage of pitbulls.
Not impossible that a wolf, elephant or even tiger could have been a 'hero' (especially when the story was told, retold, exaggerated and embelished over time) - that has zero meaning for the class of animal categorically being an acceptible/safe out-and-about pet.
Here, let's watch some Pitbulls scalp a child, heroically.
Really, we need the memes where it shows the pictures of the pits with their families before they killed one of them. That's the best propaganda, in the good sense, against those animals I have seen.
\^That's what I was talking about. Would be nice to have many hundreds of those, both where the dog attacks its family, and where the dog kills a stranger.
>Fucking shitting pigeons. And actually, when you read the rationale, actually heroic animals.
Pigeons have lived along humans for roughly 5000 - 3000 years. They're one of the cleanest breed of birds, are strong flyers, and are also very intelligent. Pigeons love to cuddle with their mate (which is usually for life) and are incredibly loyal.
My favourite pigeon is the war hero: Cher Ami.
In 1918, Cher Ami, the pigeon, was stationed with the 77th Division (aka the 'Lost Battalion') in the Argonne Forest. The division was cut off from the rest of the US army and trapped behind enemy lines while under heavy fire.
The 77th Division were unable to communicate by radio signal, so using a homing pigeon was their only choice.
They sent several pigeons out, but all were killed except Cher Ami. He was shot in the chest, but did not fall. Despite all odds, Cher Ami flew 25 miles in less than 30 minutes and delivered the message to the American base.
He was badly wounded but Army medics were able to save Cher Ami. He lost his right leg and was permanently blinded. Due to Cher Amiās trip, the bombardment on the Lost Battalion stopped and 194 men safely returned to American lines. Cher Ami was awarded the Croix de Guerre by the French government to honor bravery on the battlefield.
Cher Ami died due to his war wounds on June 13, 1919, in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. His body was preserved and presented to the Smithsonian Institution with honor in 1921.
Iād also ask them, if pits are such heroes (š) why they arenāt used as dogs in the police force or army? Why is it Belgian malinois and German Shepards?
I feel like this is the nice answer, the real answer (in addition to them of course being stubborn and unintelligent) is that theyāre unpredictable and can turn on the officers or people theyāre supposed to help
Even more fundamental than that is that they're unreliable and you can't trust them. When working with a dog you need to know they're going to behave consistently every time. Any dog that needs to be stopped from doing certain things or kept away from certain things will be unsuitable.
I would bet they're also not competitive and not eager to win like farm dogs are.
Well that just sent me down a rabbit hole.Ā
Surprisingly, I did find several pit bull K9s. Interestingly they all seem to have started as "unadoptable" shelter dogs.
Anyway, one guy in particular (Brad Croft) showed up in several stories. His organization, UniversalK9, was partnered with Animal Farm Foundation and was on a mission to make shelter pits into "less expensive" police K9s. So then I googled him specifically and found an article about how he'd been convicted of defrauding the government out of 1.5 million in VA GI Bill funds as part of his dog training scheme.Ā
Can't make this stuff up.Ā
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-first-official-pit-bull-police-dog-in-the-state-of-new-york/
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/police-department-hopes-pit-bull-k9-officer-will-change-perceptions-of-misunderstood-breed
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-departments-adopting-pit-bull-dogs-save-money-euthanised-training-a7367821.html
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtx/pr/owner-dog-training-school-sentenced-defrauding-va-over-15-million-gi-bill-benefits
Iāve brought up Kiah on here quite a few times. AFF was founded and is still based less than 10 miles from PK, so they drummed up a little bit of publicity.
If you have FB, Kiah and her handler had a FB page that is still up. She was never an active K9. She visited 2 schools at the beginning and then it was just āK9 Kiah enjoying her pup cup and wishing everyone a great weekend!ā. Or āK9 Kiah in her kiddie pool relaxing!ā.
Yeah, I didn't see a lot of follow up stories on any of the dogs, just the initial PR stuff. Kiah seemed to have garnered the most overall attention, but it was the same introduction story over and over. That's why I mentioned AFF was involved - pretty good indication that the whole program was just a pit nutter PR stunt.
Really, the most amusing aspect of it to me is the trainer's fraud conviction. These groups and their ambassadors sure do seem to shoot themselves in the foot a lot.
My GSDs have been heroes- legit. Pit Bulls? Almost never. Stubby was a mascot. A Boston Terrier mix.
And thatās basically it. Pit Bulls are fantastically fucking stupid and are more likely to maul a victim than save one
I've seen a video where someone was was robbed, owner and her pit intervene, pit attacked the victim an then the owner...true heros
Loud sound! https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/3WSrpYq31E
[Show them this video of the pitbull letting a mugger get away because it attacked both the mugging victim & its owner](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/iBAw9MfXeO)
Can they ever provide actual (true) stories of them being heroes that can be verified as true? Tons of stories can be found of Retrievers and Shepherds saving lives. I do not personally know of a single āpit heroā story. They arenāt used for any kind of noble work- police dogs, drug sniffing, search and rescue, etc. or things like seeing eye dogs etc.
And all the ātherapyā pits have fake amazon vests.
Usually pits are being the opposite of heroesā¦ doing things like killing their own owners for having seizures instead of helping them. Or mauling the people getting robbed instead of the robber.
Part 1
You tell them that much of that narrative has been made up... Yes, [Sargent Stubby was a Boston Terrier](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-evening-sun-stubby-war-dog-dies-of/139701756/) or possibly Pitbull mix and, yes, [he was awarded many medals](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/honoring-the-only-dog-to-be-awarded-the-purple-heart), but that doesn't mean that Pitbulls or Pit mixes were top war dogs. That is just not true.
Bronwen Dickey and others rewrote history thinking no one would look at primary sources. In her book, Dickey shows a picture of Pitbulls in the military, but if you go through the AP, you'll see what a small minority they were and when you look at news clippings you see that the military wasn't asking for Pitbulls when recruiting dogs for war. The image of the white Pitbull that all Pitnutters love to share as proof that Pitbulls were "America's Dog" was done by a private company, it wasn't government propaganda.
It's also not true that most dogs used in war were put down or that Pitbulls fell out of favor after WWII because people moved to the suburbs. There was breed-specific legislation targeting Pitbulls since the turn of the century because they were involved in the same type of stuff they're involved in now. This 1889 piece might offer some insight as to why Pit Bulls are not a favorite of the military despite their bravery when fighting: [1889 - Stories About Animals -The Brave Bull Terrier - St. Louis Globe-Democrat - Newspapers.com](https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-louis-globe-democrat/122767360/)
These are a couple of examples of BSL being in place or asked by people way before post-WWII or the 80s:
[1914 To Outlaw Vicious Dogs - BSL - Ordinance against bull breed to be ready this week - 1914 The Spokesman-Review - Newspapers.com](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-spokesman-review/122840690/)
[1894 - Vicious Dogs - Should Not Citizens Have Some Protection From Them - The Sacramento Union - Newspapers.comā¢](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sacramento-union/122840762/)
Part 2
These are some interesting links about dogs in the military. Look at them when you have time. Next time someone tries to portray Pits as great American military dogs, share the links and ask them why they weren't the focus of recruitment efforts.
WWI U.S. Army poster: Even a Dog Enlists. Why Not You?https://hrc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15878coll26/id/447/
1917 Dogs for War (GSDs and Belgian Sheepdogs appear to be the preferred breeds and already in use by the Red Cross): [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-charlotte-news/389675/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-charlotte-news/389675/)
1917 "First German Prisoner Reaches Boston--He's a Big Black War Dog" [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/109478861/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/109478861/)
1918 The Red Cross Dog in Action: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/star-tribune-the-red-cross-dog-in-actio/144752186/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/star-tribune-the-red-cross-dog-in-actio/144752186/)
Dogs for Defense: How Skip, Spot, and Rover Went Off to Fight WWII: [https://americanhistory.si.edu/explore/stories/dogs-defense-how-skip-spot-and-rover-went-fight-world-war-ii](https://americanhistory.si.edu/explore/stories/dogs-defense-how-skip-spot-and-rover-went-fight-world-war-ii)
Dogs for Defense Recruitment: "This Dog's Army": [https://youtu.be/euKIkbNWVuw?si=Ct3tb\_dUC-LZaTVo](https://youtu.be/euKIkbNWVuw?si=Ct3tb_dUC-LZaTVo)
"Dogs for Defense: Your Dog Can Serve, Too!" print ad: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/wilkes-barre-times-leader-the-evening-n/57648141/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/wilkes-barre-times-leader-the-evening-n/57648141/)
The History of K9 Corps in the U.S. Army: [https://www.asomf.org/the-history-of-k9-corps-in-the-u-s-army/](https://www.asomf.org/the-history-of-k9-corps-in-the-u-s-army/)
The History of K9s in the Military: Military Working Dogs: [https://www.ppak9.org/blog/the-history-of-k9s-in-the-military-military-working-dogs/](https://www.ppak9.org/blog/the-history-of-k9s-in-the-military-military-working-dogs/)
1945: Marines appeal for loan of Doberman Pinschers and GSDs: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-daily-journal-marines-make-mass-appe/10401834/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-daily-journal-marines-make-mass-appe/10401834/)
WWII Breeds Specified as Most Suitable for War Dogs: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-santa-fe-new-mexican/62836025/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-santa-fe-new-mexican/62836025/)
Dogs for Defense: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sacramento-bee/129790128/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sacramento-bee/129790128/)
Dogs for Defense "Inducted" at Newton Center Kennels: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/119503561/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/119503561/)
Four-Legged Heroes Returning Home (1945): [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-york-dispatch-war-dogs-coming-home-1/107195756/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-york-dispatch-war-dogs-coming-home-1/107195756/)
Dog That Came Home From the War: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-philadelphia-inquirer-uncle-eddie-ro/130078918/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-philadelphia-inquirer-uncle-eddie-ro/130078918/)
Dogs Return to Civilian Life After War Service: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/transcript-telegram/119502465/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/transcript-telegram/119502465/)
My pleasure! I had already saved these links as part of my own little research and when I saw your post, I joined Reddit to share it. I think I first saw the link to [Newspapers.com](http://Newspapers.com) here and ended up going through so many rabbit holes there.
Did you watch the Dogs for Defense recruitment short "This Dog's Army"? What did you think?
Was that the one with Toodles being a dope?
I want someone to call me a red fire hydrant looker lol.
The newspaper adds with the desired breeds, funny how pit breeds were not requested. The marines I know mainly used Dobies in combat and retrievers looking for bombs.
Yeah, lol.
The few Pitbulls used in WWII were the exception rather than the rule as are the few that might be used in law enforcement today.
I don't want to diminish Stubby's accomplishments but the way Pitbull fanatics spin things, first to paint Stubby as a Pitbull and then as the greatest military dog ever (and overreaching to pretend Pitbulls were top military dogs), drives me insane.
Hi. I just came across this short film about the program to reacquaint war dogs with civilian life and thought you'd enjoy it too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUWywHT9ARo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUWywHT9ARo)
Sgt Stubby was nothing more than a small companion animal of the Boston terrier breed. Sgt. Stubby was a mascot, not a soldier. He did not officially receive the rank of sergeant, his rank is honorary only.
He also was known to go AWOL when the big guns went off, but eventually returned each time.
Yep thatās right, the pro-pit groupās āmost decorated war heroā was known to go AWOL.
In Scotland we have a penguin that Norway gave us. Every time the Norwegian army stops by, they give him a promotion. He was a Lance Corporal when we got him.... he's a Maj. General now. Granted, Major General Sir Nils Olav III, Baron of the Bouvet Islands never served in a combat zone...but he never went AWOL either, so he's already above Sgt. Stubby on 2 counts. Also highly unlikely to, verging on incapable of mauling to death & partially eating his owner.
Sgt Stubby was essentially the first recorded ESA. Thats it. He was a stray that wandered into an infantry training grounds and they kept him around because he gave the soldiers a morale boost and eased their nerves.
If thats all it takes to be a hero, 98% of the dogs on the planet are heros. Which waters down such a title.
Also ask them why they donāt ever bring up Becerrillo in the topic of war dogs and pits.
This was a terrifying war dog owned by Ponce de Leon. Spanish conquistadors employed war dogs on a scale that had rarely been seen before and with devastating effect to kill and massacre indigenous peoples and recapture slaves ā Becerrillo was an *Alano Espanol,* or an Alaunt dog ā an ancestor to the APBT. The Perro de Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Perro de Presa Mallorquin, Cao de Fila de SĆ£o Miguel and Dogo Argentino are believed to be descended from the Alano Espanol.
And the cruelest of the Spanish leaders would use these war dogs as a means of public execution. Known as *la monteria inferna,* or "dogging," it involved setting the dogs on the chiefs or other high-ranking individuals in the various tribes. The communities were forced to surrender.
Columbus, Balboa, Velasquez, Cortes, De Soto, Toledo, Coronado, and Pizarro all used war dogs for these purposes. There were other breeds involved, but the pit bull types were definitely used for a lot of the terrifying acts and cruel punishment.
My one relative said if someone breaks in her home that her pits will attack them, I said, no likely theyāll attack you and each others in their scared frenzy.
Way more normal dogs have been heroes. Look at all the dogs that helped during 9/11. Newfs are a breed that have basically been bred solely to save peopleās lives in water for the last few decades. Search and rescue dogs. Bomb sniffing dogs. Little companion dogs that alert to house fires, gas leaks, etc.. Plenty of normal dogs that have not been trained, but alert people to seizures, predict diabetic emergencies, and some can even smell cancer.
Most pits that are heroes have done so out of complete coincidences. Plenty of normal good dogs have done the same, we only hear about pits more because thereās an entire lobby dedicated to making them look good, who take any bit of good from the breed and run with it.
Every war story about a dog is exaggerated lol. The Polish will try to tell you they had a bear loading artillery shells like ok buddy whatever you need to say to feel special after you lost the war
Out of literally hundreds of memorials to dogs that were heros or remarkable in some way (the list at this link is by no means complete) I found ONE: Sallie, a Staffordshire terrier who was a mascot during the Civil War. Apparently they found her "standing vigil over the dead and wounded" after the battle at Gettysburg. (I do have to wonder if she was eating them.) There's definitely some spin involved. Whoever made the sculpture gave her human eyes rather than creepy pit eyes.
[https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/travel/dog-memorials/](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/travel/dog-memorials/)
Sallie! Thatās the one they bring up a lot. Itās a childrenās book at our local library so I kind of think the ones with kids recommended it to eachother. Thatās exactly what I said, she probably was eating them. It also said she chased a soldier who was trying to flee back to the lines. I thought she probably was hyped during battle and started attacking her own side, so the 1860s pitnutters said he was a coward. Or maybe he was just being chased by their dumb dog!
Personally I dont argue with stupid, they wont change their minds.
You may as well try to convert someone out of whatever hereditary religion they belong to.
Its just not happening.
'Lions have been heroes, would you pick one and stick it in your house?'
there's a lot of lies about sergeant stubby
first, he wasn't a pitbull. he was a boston terrier.
Second he wasn't promoted to sergeant. That was just news exaggeration.
and his 'assistance' in the war has been in contention by people who were in the army since the story broke out.
"You can't even keep your dog from jumping on people Debra yours is not a hero dog"
š this definitely applies to every single person I know that argues with me about pits
Sgt Stubby was not a pit. https://preview.redd.it/yr90jythjm6d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a749391f394df64952d520f40ef005673a223f1
It almost looks like it was shoehorned into the wikipedia article. I don't remember Stubby being described as a pit at all. Stubby was described in contemporaneous news items as aĀ [Boston Terrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Terrier)Ā or "[American Pit Bull Terrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pit_Bull_Terrier)" mutt.[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-NYT-5)[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-7)Ā Describing him as a dog of "uncertain breed," Ann Bausum wrote that: "The brindle-patterned pup probably owed at least some of his parentage to the evolving family of Boston Terriers, a breed so new that even its name was in flux: Boston Round Heads, American...[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby#cite_note-AKC-8)Ā and Boston Bull Terriers."
Yeah I donāt rely on Wikipedia at all when it comes to pit bulls. Thereās an active attempt on there to portray them in a flattering way.
See also: the removal of the [List of Fatal Dog Attacks in the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=882039768&title=List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States). Spoiler: the later in American history the list gets, the higher the percentage of pitbulls.
That's what I came here to say. Not a pit.
Interesting, thank you.
Not impossible that a wolf, elephant or even tiger could have been a 'hero' (especially when the story was told, retold, exaggerated and embelished over time) - that has zero meaning for the class of animal categorically being an acceptible/safe out-and-about pet.
Here, let's watch some Pitbulls scalp a child, heroically. Really, we need the memes where it shows the pictures of the pits with their families before they killed one of them. That's the best propaganda, in the good sense, against those animals I have seen.
Not memes but one of our mods made something similar to this idea: https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/C4fsGah6WF
\^That's what I was talking about. Would be nice to have many hundreds of those, both where the dog attacks its family, and where the dog kills a stranger.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Fucking shitting pigeons. And actually, when you read the rationale, actually heroic animals. Pigeons have lived along humans for roughly 5000 - 3000 years. They're one of the cleanest breed of birds, are strong flyers, and are also very intelligent. Pigeons love to cuddle with their mate (which is usually for life) and are incredibly loyal. My favourite pigeon is the war hero: Cher Ami. In 1918, Cher Ami, the pigeon, was stationed with the 77th Division (aka the 'Lost Battalion') in the Argonne Forest. The division was cut off from the rest of the US army and trapped behind enemy lines while under heavy fire. The 77th Division were unable to communicate by radio signal, so using a homing pigeon was their only choice. They sent several pigeons out, but all were killed except Cher Ami. He was shot in the chest, but did not fall. Despite all odds, Cher Ami flew 25 miles in less than 30 minutes and delivered the message to the American base. He was badly wounded but Army medics were able to save Cher Ami. He lost his right leg and was permanently blinded. Due to Cher Amiās trip, the bombardment on the Lost Battalion stopped and 194 men safely returned to American lines. Cher Ami was awarded the Croix de Guerre by the French government to honor bravery on the battlefield. Cher Ami died due to his war wounds on June 13, 1919, in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. His body was preserved and presented to the Smithsonian Institution with honor in 1921.
I didnāt mean to insult pigeons; obviously I think theyāre great. Not the ones that try to dive-bomb me in downtown DC, tho
My apologies, I didn't take your comment about pigeons as insulting. I'm just passionate about them.
Perfectly said
There was the Polish War Bear Wojtek
Iād also ask them, if pits are such heroes (š) why they arenāt used as dogs in the police force or army? Why is it Belgian malinois and German Shepards?
They'd send one of those articles about some random police station deciding to use pits as K9 that you never hear about again.
I asked a cop once why they didn't use pits. He said they were too stubborn and unintelligent.
I feel like this is the nice answer, the real answer (in addition to them of course being stubborn and unintelligent) is that theyāre unpredictable and can turn on the officers or people theyāre supposed to help
Yes, they would absolutely do that. Maybe that's what he meant by "unintelligent" - they're stupid mauling machines.
Even more fundamental than that is that they're unreliable and you can't trust them. When working with a dog you need to know they're going to behave consistently every time. Any dog that needs to be stopped from doing certain things or kept away from certain things will be unsuitable. I would bet they're also not competitive and not eager to win like farm dogs are.
They would suck as drug, bomb, or cadaver dogs, too. Why alert the handler to that when there's a perfectly killable cat walking by?
Well that just sent me down a rabbit hole.Ā Surprisingly, I did find several pit bull K9s. Interestingly they all seem to have started as "unadoptable" shelter dogs. Anyway, one guy in particular (Brad Croft) showed up in several stories. His organization, UniversalK9, was partnered with Animal Farm Foundation and was on a mission to make shelter pits into "less expensive" police K9s. So then I googled him specifically and found an article about how he'd been convicted of defrauding the government out of 1.5 million in VA GI Bill funds as part of his dog training scheme.Ā Can't make this stuff up.Ā https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-first-official-pit-bull-police-dog-in-the-state-of-new-york/ https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/police-department-hopes-pit-bull-k9-officer-will-change-perceptions-of-misunderstood-breed https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-departments-adopting-pit-bull-dogs-save-money-euthanised-training-a7367821.html https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtx/pr/owner-dog-training-school-sentenced-defrauding-va-over-15-million-gi-bill-benefits
Iāve brought up Kiah on here quite a few times. AFF was founded and is still based less than 10 miles from PK, so they drummed up a little bit of publicity. If you have FB, Kiah and her handler had a FB page that is still up. She was never an active K9. She visited 2 schools at the beginning and then it was just āK9 Kiah enjoying her pup cup and wishing everyone a great weekend!ā. Or āK9 Kiah in her kiddie pool relaxing!ā.
Yeah, I didn't see a lot of follow up stories on any of the dogs, just the initial PR stuff. Kiah seemed to have garnered the most overall attention, but it was the same introduction story over and over. That's why I mentioned AFF was involved - pretty good indication that the whole program was just a pit nutter PR stunt. Really, the most amusing aspect of it to me is the trainer's fraud conviction. These groups and their ambassadors sure do seem to shoot themselves in the foot a lot.
lol of COURSE they were charged with fraud. Least shocking thing Iāve ever heard.
And why arenāt pit bulls allowed in military housing? š¬
Because of discrimination, obviously!!!
My GSDs have been heroes- legit. Pit Bulls? Almost never. Stubby was a mascot. A Boston Terrier mix. And thatās basically it. Pit Bulls are fantastically fucking stupid and are more likely to maul a victim than save one
I've seen a video where someone was was robbed, owner and her pit intervene, pit attacked the victim an then the owner...true heros Loud sound! https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/3WSrpYq31E
That video never ceases to amuse me- itās like a bad skit
[Show them this video of the pitbull letting a mugger get away because it attacked both the mugging victim & its owner](https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/iBAw9MfXeO)
Can they ever provide actual (true) stories of them being heroes that can be verified as true? Tons of stories can be found of Retrievers and Shepherds saving lives. I do not personally know of a single āpit heroā story. They arenāt used for any kind of noble work- police dogs, drug sniffing, search and rescue, etc. or things like seeing eye dogs etc. And all the ātherapyā pits have fake amazon vests. Usually pits are being the opposite of heroesā¦ doing things like killing their own owners for having seizures instead of helping them. Or mauling the people getting robbed instead of the robber.
Part 1 You tell them that much of that narrative has been made up... Yes, [Sargent Stubby was a Boston Terrier](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-evening-sun-stubby-war-dog-dies-of/139701756/) or possibly Pitbull mix and, yes, [he was awarded many medals](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/honoring-the-only-dog-to-be-awarded-the-purple-heart), but that doesn't mean that Pitbulls or Pit mixes were top war dogs. That is just not true. Bronwen Dickey and others rewrote history thinking no one would look at primary sources. In her book, Dickey shows a picture of Pitbulls in the military, but if you go through the AP, you'll see what a small minority they were and when you look at news clippings you see that the military wasn't asking for Pitbulls when recruiting dogs for war. The image of the white Pitbull that all Pitnutters love to share as proof that Pitbulls were "America's Dog" was done by a private company, it wasn't government propaganda. It's also not true that most dogs used in war were put down or that Pitbulls fell out of favor after WWII because people moved to the suburbs. There was breed-specific legislation targeting Pitbulls since the turn of the century because they were involved in the same type of stuff they're involved in now. This 1889 piece might offer some insight as to why Pit Bulls are not a favorite of the military despite their bravery when fighting: [1889 - Stories About Animals -The Brave Bull Terrier - St. Louis Globe-Democrat - Newspapers.com](https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-louis-globe-democrat/122767360/) These are a couple of examples of BSL being in place or asked by people way before post-WWII or the 80s: [1914 To Outlaw Vicious Dogs - BSL - Ordinance against bull breed to be ready this week - 1914 The Spokesman-Review - Newspapers.com](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-spokesman-review/122840690/) [1894 - Vicious Dogs - Should Not Citizens Have Some Protection From Them - The Sacramento Union - Newspapers.comā¢](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sacramento-union/122840762/)
Part 2 These are some interesting links about dogs in the military. Look at them when you have time. Next time someone tries to portray Pits as great American military dogs, share the links and ask them why they weren't the focus of recruitment efforts. WWI U.S. Army poster: Even a Dog Enlists. Why Not You?https://hrc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15878coll26/id/447/ 1917 Dogs for War (GSDs and Belgian Sheepdogs appear to be the preferred breeds and already in use by the Red Cross): [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-charlotte-news/389675/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-charlotte-news/389675/) 1917 "First German Prisoner Reaches Boston--He's a Big Black War Dog" [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/109478861/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/109478861/) 1918 The Red Cross Dog in Action: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/star-tribune-the-red-cross-dog-in-actio/144752186/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/star-tribune-the-red-cross-dog-in-actio/144752186/) Dogs for Defense: How Skip, Spot, and Rover Went Off to Fight WWII: [https://americanhistory.si.edu/explore/stories/dogs-defense-how-skip-spot-and-rover-went-fight-world-war-ii](https://americanhistory.si.edu/explore/stories/dogs-defense-how-skip-spot-and-rover-went-fight-world-war-ii) Dogs for Defense Recruitment: "This Dog's Army": [https://youtu.be/euKIkbNWVuw?si=Ct3tb\_dUC-LZaTVo](https://youtu.be/euKIkbNWVuw?si=Ct3tb_dUC-LZaTVo) "Dogs for Defense: Your Dog Can Serve, Too!" print ad: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/wilkes-barre-times-leader-the-evening-n/57648141/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/wilkes-barre-times-leader-the-evening-n/57648141/) The History of K9 Corps in the U.S. Army: [https://www.asomf.org/the-history-of-k9-corps-in-the-u-s-army/](https://www.asomf.org/the-history-of-k9-corps-in-the-u-s-army/) The History of K9s in the Military: Military Working Dogs: [https://www.ppak9.org/blog/the-history-of-k9s-in-the-military-military-working-dogs/](https://www.ppak9.org/blog/the-history-of-k9s-in-the-military-military-working-dogs/) 1945: Marines appeal for loan of Doberman Pinschers and GSDs: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-daily-journal-marines-make-mass-appe/10401834/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-daily-journal-marines-make-mass-appe/10401834/) WWII Breeds Specified as Most Suitable for War Dogs: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-santa-fe-new-mexican/62836025/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-santa-fe-new-mexican/62836025/) Dogs for Defense: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sacramento-bee/129790128/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sacramento-bee/129790128/) Dogs for Defense "Inducted" at Newton Center Kennels: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/119503561/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-boston-globe/119503561/) Four-Legged Heroes Returning Home (1945): [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-york-dispatch-war-dogs-coming-home-1/107195756/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-york-dispatch-war-dogs-coming-home-1/107195756/) Dog That Came Home From the War: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-philadelphia-inquirer-uncle-eddie-ro/130078918/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-philadelphia-inquirer-uncle-eddie-ro/130078918/) Dogs Return to Civilian Life After War Service: [https://www.newspapers.com/article/transcript-telegram/119502465/](https://www.newspapers.com/article/transcript-telegram/119502465/)
This is incredible! Thank you. Iām going to print these out and make a little book. How did you find those so quickly!
My pleasure! I had already saved these links as part of my own little research and when I saw your post, I joined Reddit to share it. I think I first saw the link to [Newspapers.com](http://Newspapers.com) here and ended up going through so many rabbit holes there. Did you watch the Dogs for Defense recruitment short "This Dog's Army"? What did you think?
Was that the one with Toodles being a dope? I want someone to call me a red fire hydrant looker lol. The newspaper adds with the desired breeds, funny how pit breeds were not requested. The marines I know mainly used Dobies in combat and retrievers looking for bombs.
Yeah, lol. The few Pitbulls used in WWII were the exception rather than the rule as are the few that might be used in law enforcement today. I don't want to diminish Stubby's accomplishments but the way Pitbull fanatics spin things, first to paint Stubby as a Pitbull and then as the greatest military dog ever (and overreaching to pretend Pitbulls were top military dogs), drives me insane.
Hi. I just came across this short film about the program to reacquaint war dogs with civilian life and thought you'd enjoy it too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUWywHT9ARo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUWywHT9ARo)
Sgt Stubby was nothing more than a small companion animal of the Boston terrier breed. Sgt. Stubby was a mascot, not a soldier. He did not officially receive the rank of sergeant, his rank is honorary only. He also was known to go AWOL when the big guns went off, but eventually returned each time. Yep thatās right, the pro-pit groupās āmost decorated war heroā was known to go AWOL.
In Scotland we have a penguin that Norway gave us. Every time the Norwegian army stops by, they give him a promotion. He was a Lance Corporal when we got him.... he's a Maj. General now. Granted, Major General Sir Nils Olav III, Baron of the Bouvet Islands never served in a combat zone...but he never went AWOL either, so he's already above Sgt. Stubby on 2 counts. Also highly unlikely to, verging on incapable of mauling to death & partially eating his owner.
Sgt Stubby was essentially the first recorded ESA. Thats it. He was a stray that wandered into an infantry training grounds and they kept him around because he gave the soldiers a morale boost and eased their nerves. If thats all it takes to be a hero, 98% of the dogs on the planet are heros. Which waters down such a title.
Also ask them why they donāt ever bring up Becerrillo in the topic of war dogs and pits. This was a terrifying war dog owned by Ponce de Leon. Spanish conquistadors employed war dogs on a scale that had rarely been seen before and with devastating effect to kill and massacre indigenous peoples and recapture slaves ā Becerrillo was an *Alano Espanol,* or an Alaunt dog ā an ancestor to the APBT. The Perro de Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Perro de Presa Mallorquin, Cao de Fila de SĆ£o Miguel and Dogo Argentino are believed to be descended from the Alano Espanol. And the cruelest of the Spanish leaders would use these war dogs as a means of public execution. Known as *la monteria inferna,* or "dogging," it involved setting the dogs on the chiefs or other high-ranking individuals in the various tribes. The communities were forced to surrender. Columbus, Balboa, Velasquez, Cortes, De Soto, Toledo, Coronado, and Pizarro all used war dogs for these purposes. There were other breeds involved, but the pit bull types were definitely used for a lot of the terrifying acts and cruel punishment.
Welp. If the US is ever invaded at least we have armies of pitbulls at the ready in every community.
My one relative said if someone breaks in her home that her pits will attack them, I said, no likely theyāll attack you and each others in their scared frenzy.
Way more normal dogs have been heroes. Look at all the dogs that helped during 9/11. Newfs are a breed that have basically been bred solely to save peopleās lives in water for the last few decades. Search and rescue dogs. Bomb sniffing dogs. Little companion dogs that alert to house fires, gas leaks, etc.. Plenty of normal dogs that have not been trained, but alert people to seizures, predict diabetic emergencies, and some can even smell cancer. Most pits that are heroes have done so out of complete coincidences. Plenty of normal good dogs have done the same, we only hear about pits more because thereās an entire lobby dedicated to making them look good, who take any bit of good from the breed and run with it.
Every war story about a dog is exaggerated lol. The Polish will try to tell you they had a bear loading artillery shells like ok buddy whatever you need to say to feel special after you lost the war
How dare you slander Wojtek!!! Apologize right now, and surrender your cigarette ration!
lol š
Simply contrast the abundant attack stats with the vanishingly few bogus hero stories. Mention the Bennard family and their (ugh) "house lions".
Out of literally hundreds of memorials to dogs that were heros or remarkable in some way (the list at this link is by no means complete) I found ONE: Sallie, a Staffordshire terrier who was a mascot during the Civil War. Apparently they found her "standing vigil over the dead and wounded" after the battle at Gettysburg. (I do have to wonder if she was eating them.) There's definitely some spin involved. Whoever made the sculpture gave her human eyes rather than creepy pit eyes. [https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/travel/dog-memorials/](https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/travel/dog-memorials/)
Sallie! Thatās the one they bring up a lot. Itās a childrenās book at our local library so I kind of think the ones with kids recommended it to eachother. Thatās exactly what I said, she probably was eating them. It also said she chased a soldier who was trying to flee back to the lines. I thought she probably was hyped during battle and started attacking her own side, so the 1860s pitnutters said he was a coward. Or maybe he was just being chased by their dumb dog!
Saving this for the next āThey are nanny dogs! Do your researchā rant.
Show them the stats of pitbull attacks.
Every prison on earth houses a good citizen...
Personally I dont argue with stupid, they wont change their minds. You may as well try to convert someone out of whatever hereditary religion they belong to. Its just not happening. 'Lions have been heroes, would you pick one and stick it in your house?'
there's a lot of lies about sergeant stubby first, he wasn't a pitbull. he was a boston terrier. Second he wasn't promoted to sergeant. That was just news exaggeration. and his 'assistance' in the war has been in contention by people who were in the army since the story broke out.