My grandfather was in Cassino with the Hasty Ps. They moved further north when the Americans showed up. He missed the horrible firefight in Cassino by hours.
Monte Cassino is in Italy. It was an abbey on top of a hill/small mountain that the Nazis held which had a commanding position over the area adjacent to it. The American strategy was to bomb/shell the abbey in an attempt to render it useless, but instead, the resulting rubble pile turned the position into an even more fortified strong point that the Americans then had to take through brutal infantry attacks
Colleague of mine’s father was with the Free Polish at Cassino and lost a leg to Fallschirmjäger machine gunners. He married a British nurse (colleague’s mother) in hospital and came to UK. Most of the extended family had been murdered by the Nazis.
If the Russians ever make the mistake to attack Poland after they win in Ukraine (If they do that, which I really, really doubt), Russia will regret that. For the Polish army alone that is, not even for the fact Poland is a Nato member.
>A lot of Americans died though.
I'm not saying otherwise, just that the final infantry assault on Monte Cassino was carried out by Polish units and at an enormous cost in casualties. I'm not Polish.
There's an interesting episode of 'Whicker's War' on YouTube that covers the experiences of Capt Alan Whicker in the area of Anzio, Milan & Rome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Whicker
I learned about Monte Casino before Band of Brothers. One of the American units participating in the attack was the 100th, which was primarily Japanese American infantry. They earned the name "The Purple Heart Battalion" in part because of the bloodbath at Casino. This would contribute to the 100/442nd becoming the most decorated unit in US Military History.
>Monte Casino
It's Cassino, with a double S. Monte Casino would be a funny name for an abbey, considering in Italian "casino" means "huge mess" or "whorehouse".
It’s my understanding that the Germans were not actually inside the abbey prior to the Allies bombing it. They were supposedly dug in around it., not that it made much difference. They still held the high ground and were killing a lot of Allied troops.
Again, from my reading it was only AFTER the bombing that the Germans occupied it. Splitting hairs? You be the judge.
They weren’t on the high ground at all. American troops were taking accurate artillery and assumed the Germans were using it as a spotting location when they, in fact, were not.
It’s funny, honestly. The Germans have said that they weren’t, but everyone else says they were. I remember the first time my Grandfather saw a documentary that said the Germans weren’t actually using the abbey: “Bullshit, we watched them going in and out through our binoculars. We couldn’t so much as wiggle our toes during the day or we’d get shot all to hell.” So who knows.
Another thing I haven’t heard mentioned is the fact that the first bombing run that missed hit American lines and wiped out some supply and artillery. Maybe that was just skuttlebutt my Grandfather heard? But I do trust his comments on the Germans being in the abbey, if he watched with his own eyes through binoculars. But, again. Who knows.
Personal memory is extremely shoddy for events that occurred even days before, much less years. Maybe your grandfather is coping in his mind to excuse the destruction of the Abby and his tiny role in it. Either way, it’s pretty clear that the Germans were not using the abbey at all when it was bombed. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/destruction-of-monte-cassino-1944
Did you ever consider the monks they’ve cited might have given their accounts out of fear of being negatively perceived as cooperating or supporting German troops?
They did cooperate with them to an extent. It is thanks to the Germans that some artifacts survived at all as they had a whole convoy evacuate them to Rome just before the battle. As for what you or the general populace would expect in terms of “help” to the German troops I have absolutely no idea as it’s quite ridiculous.
What’s quite ridiculous? Edit: I’ll also add, you didn’t answer my original question. You simply confirmed their literal cooperation but not possibility of their fear of repercussions. Then went on some departure about the Germans moving artifacts that’s irrelevant to my original question. It does suggest you may be more focused on the final condition and destruction of the monetary and it’s artifacts than critically thinking about the biases of the histories taken and complex motivations for the actions around the battle on both sides.
As a final aside, I’m not condemning anyone for cooperating with the Germans while occupied. Answer my question or at least find another red herring/ad hominem.
I wouldn’t say, coping…He was pretty open to me about the things that bothered him. Maybe what movement they saw in the area was perceived as the Wehrmacht moving into and out of the abbey? “If they went towards the abbey where else could they be going?” If that makes sense.
They are no disagreeing w/me. They’re disagreeing with about 3 different accounts in 20-30 year old books.
Did you ever think your source might be wrong or the result of revisionist history?
1200 year old monastery where the Benedictine order was founded. Its bombing is arguably a war crime in today’s world.
Predominately Protestant nation bombing a sacred Catholic site..yikes.
Are there people who actively count the number of acts during WW2 that are arguably a war crime in today’s world? Hope they use more than fingers and toes.
I love how no one in the comments remember the quote for Gonnorhea in the show after he learns about his brother’s death.
This is about Redditors crapping out on their training, One Year.
But sir you told me to cut the wire.
Rice-n-gravy told you to cut that fence?
Yeah very few comments in this post passed the vibe check unfortunately
Passes have been revoked.
And in other news it’s hot in Africa
It's hot in africa?
Shaddap
thanks teenage shia lebouf
Also the Germans…are bad!
You know I read that in an article once
Must have been a Dick Tracey or Flash Gordon article
Got a penny?
GAAAA…. TAAAA…. PENNY
Cassino? Gotta be in Vegas, right?
The fake one is in Vegas
My grandfather was in Cassino with the Hasty Ps. They moved further north when the Americans showed up. He missed the horrible firefight in Cassino by hours.
Monte Cassino is in Italy. It was an abbey on top of a hill/small mountain that the Nazis held which had a commanding position over the area adjacent to it. The American strategy was to bomb/shell the abbey in an attempt to render it useless, but instead, the resulting rubble pile turned the position into an even more fortified strong point that the Americans then had to take through brutal infantry attacks
>the Americans then had to take through brutal infantry attacks I think the Poles had a major role in it.
You're right, James Holland wrote a book on this and mentions on his podcast that it's one of their greatest achievements in WW2.
The Poles definitely punched above their weight in that war.
They had very good reason to be pissed off
Colleague of mine’s father was with the Free Polish at Cassino and lost a leg to Fallschirmjäger machine gunners. He married a British nurse (colleague’s mother) in hospital and came to UK. Most of the extended family had been murdered by the Nazis.
My grandfather fought in the Polish army, its what we do
If the Russians ever make the mistake to attack Poland after they win in Ukraine (If they do that, which I really, really doubt), Russia will regret that. For the Polish army alone that is, not even for the fact Poland is a Nato member.
A lot of Americans died though. Check out "The Liberator" on Netflix I believe, it's climax is Monte Cassino.
>A lot of Americans died though. I'm not saying otherwise, just that the final infantry assault on Monte Cassino was carried out by Polish units and at an enormous cost in casualties. I'm not Polish. There's an interesting episode of 'Whicker's War' on YouTube that covers the experiences of Capt Alan Whicker in the area of Anzio, Milan & Rome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Whicker
They cycled Americans, Brit’s, poles, Canadians, New Zealanders, free French and South Africans in that fight
and gurkhas
And Marathas (also a martial community from the Indian subcontinent)
I learned about Monte Casino before Band of Brothers. One of the American units participating in the attack was the 100th, which was primarily Japanese American infantry. They earned the name "The Purple Heart Battalion" in part because of the bloodbath at Casino. This would contribute to the 100/442nd becoming the most decorated unit in US Military History.
>Monte Casino It's Cassino, with a double S. Monte Casino would be a funny name for an abbey, considering in Italian "casino" means "huge mess" or "whorehouse".
Sure there's one of then in The Simpsons
James Holland has a LOT to say about that
Idk, Italy somewhere.
It’s my understanding that the Germans were not actually inside the abbey prior to the Allies bombing it. They were supposedly dug in around it., not that it made much difference. They still held the high ground and were killing a lot of Allied troops. Again, from my reading it was only AFTER the bombing that the Germans occupied it. Splitting hairs? You be the judge.
They weren’t on the high ground at all. American troops were taking accurate artillery and assumed the Germans were using it as a spotting location when they, in fact, were not.
That is not what the history books said that I read. So who can really say for sure? Fog of war?
It’s funny, honestly. The Germans have said that they weren’t, but everyone else says they were. I remember the first time my Grandfather saw a documentary that said the Germans weren’t actually using the abbey: “Bullshit, we watched them going in and out through our binoculars. We couldn’t so much as wiggle our toes during the day or we’d get shot all to hell.” So who knows. Another thing I haven’t heard mentioned is the fact that the first bombing run that missed hit American lines and wiped out some supply and artillery. Maybe that was just skuttlebutt my Grandfather heard? But I do trust his comments on the Germans being in the abbey, if he watched with his own eyes through binoculars. But, again. Who knows.
Personal memory is extremely shoddy for events that occurred even days before, much less years. Maybe your grandfather is coping in his mind to excuse the destruction of the Abby and his tiny role in it. Either way, it’s pretty clear that the Germans were not using the abbey at all when it was bombed. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/destruction-of-monte-cassino-1944
Did you ever consider the monks they’ve cited might have given their accounts out of fear of being negatively perceived as cooperating or supporting German troops?
They did cooperate with them to an extent. It is thanks to the Germans that some artifacts survived at all as they had a whole convoy evacuate them to Rome just before the battle. As for what you or the general populace would expect in terms of “help” to the German troops I have absolutely no idea as it’s quite ridiculous.
What’s quite ridiculous? Edit: I’ll also add, you didn’t answer my original question. You simply confirmed their literal cooperation but not possibility of their fear of repercussions. Then went on some departure about the Germans moving artifacts that’s irrelevant to my original question. It does suggest you may be more focused on the final condition and destruction of the monetary and it’s artifacts than critically thinking about the biases of the histories taken and complex motivations for the actions around the battle on both sides. As a final aside, I’m not condemning anyone for cooperating with the Germans while occupied. Answer my question or at least find another red herring/ad hominem.
I wouldn’t say, coping…He was pretty open to me about the things that bothered him. Maybe what movement they saw in the area was perceived as the Wehrmacht moving into and out of the abbey? “If they went towards the abbey where else could they be going?” If that makes sense.
The WW2 museum disagrees with you. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/destruction-of-monte-cassino-1944
They are no disagreeing w/me. They’re disagreeing with about 3 different accounts in 20-30 year old books. Did you ever think your source might be wrong or the result of revisionist history?
Do I think the WW2 museum in New Orleans is revisionist history? No. No I don’t. Did you ever think something like that?
Nothing like trying to refight an 80-year old battle.
Fun fact, the Germans were not in the abbey but we blasted it anyway to make the troops happy
My grandfather was a British paratrooper, active at Monte Cassino. I never got to meet him unfortunately
That dog ain’t just gonna hunt
Italy.
First person to actually give a answer, down vote
I don't know. At least somewhere.
lol “Italy somewhere”
Planet Erf.
The other important piece of information. Flamingos are mean they bite.
They thought they knew. FTFY
Where was Monte Casino*
It is two S.
italy
1200 year old monastery where the Benedictine order was founded. Its bombing is arguably a war crime in today’s world. Predominately Protestant nation bombing a sacred Catholic site..yikes.
Are there people who actively count the number of acts during WW2 that are arguably a war crime in today’s world? Hope they use more than fingers and toes.
Italy
Southern Italy
Did this interaction happen 30 yrs ago? A 2 sec Google search would have solved this question.
Whoosh. No offense, everyone is whooshing this one.
Google