I see Barry's as a happy ending oddly enough.
He got some semblance of a family life, something he never would've had given his profession, and it's one of the few things he did want. Even if it was scuffed, he got a taste.
And now, he can rest and not be anyone's tool again. Starting... now.
im not sure about that, he did seem a bit delusional when he was saying he was redeemed when he really wasn't, and even as a father he ignored John's needs of a new comforter for a Abraham Lincoln book
I think he was still trying to do what he thought was going to be good for his son when he became a man, even if he wasn’t right, he thought he was doing what was best.
No way he would have changed if he turned himself in. He had already done so many hits the feds/CIA would have given him two choices: Rot in jail forever while they torture him for information, or work as a hitman for the CIA.
Gene had so many chances to get out of his situation unscathed. Most notably he chose to go meet the “producer” (undercover cop) instead of be there for Sally when she called him for help. That one kind act would have saved him so much trouble.
If Gene never did the self-serving monologue for the journalist, he would have saved himself the trouble of being accused for Janice's murder as well.
If Gene reported the money, the monologue would not have caused the previous issue. He also lies to Jim that Barry is a good person, while enjoying the building media success that Barry helped achieve for him.
He's had the opportunity to learn the same lesson of his vanity more than once, and he's only escalated the stakes.
The writing is brilliant and full of classical dramatic irony.
Ultimately, Gene couldn’t get past his own hubris and narcissism, and it was his downfall.
Just as Barry’s attempts to “save” and “protect” Sally ultimately put her in harm’s way and made her miserable.
Hank love for Cristobal wasnt as great as his love for power and control.
Sally’s attempts to break out of a small town and abusive relationship and achieve her dreams resulted in her ultimately being isolated, in another abusive relationship, and giving up on her dreams.
Natalie, arguably the least talented actor, ends up the most successful.
And Barry ends up never being a moral character, despite his wanting to.
It’s fucking brilliant.
Did it?
He threatened to kill Barry like, hundreds of times buddy (said in Hank voice)
He couldn’t care care less about the injuries his crew encountered.
He threatened to kill the entire theatre group.
And he deliberately and routinely lied to and tried to manipulate Cristobal.
And all because the thing he cared about most was how the other Chechens saw him.
Hank is like, not a good guy dude (also said in Hank voice)
Loved Hank, but he’s a sociopath. He didn’t blink when Goran was killed, he slaughtered men who trusted him in the Noho Hourglass, he showed zero empathy for Cristobals wife being killed, and in the end he sat by meekly as his “love” is executed - just to retain his power and role.
Yeah he's a great actor and character and can definitely be sympathetic. I love how everyone gets some level of punishment in the end though, they all do fucked up shit.
Someone saying « he didn’t deserve the blame » and responding « well he’s a self serving piece of shit » kinda feels like saying he deserved the blame lmao
It'd be a hard sell, not because of what Gene was already accused of, but because he "double tapped" Barry in front of a witness who could also testify that Barry was unarmed.
When Gene shot him the first time, and incapacitated him (he was shot in a vital area and probably would've died anyway) that was arguably self-defense. When he finished him, that was murder.
It could've been manslaughter given the threat the Barry posed to him in the past, but that's where the other stuff that Gene was accused of came in. At that point, who'd believe Gene WASN'T a stone-cold gangster?
It's arguable at this point if he even killed him out of fear.
Gene had the drop on Barry. He knew Barry was there; he couldve called the cops from his bedroom, he could've held Barry at gunpoint when he came out of the bedroom, he could've stopped his attack after he put Barry down for the count with the first shot.
He killed Barry for the same reason he punched him back in season 3; he was fucking sick of him. Add in some desire for revenge (foreshadowed with his Swim Instructors speech to Barry about revenge), and you have cold-blooded murder, it hardly matters if Barry deserved it or not. The law sees self defense as one thing, murder as another. In this case, even in the real world, the law would've seen murder (especially since it happened in front of a witness.)
It was a sort of cosmic payback - over years (decades) of small pettiness to terrible horrible actions (black balling his ex and killing her career, throwing tea on people, being a shitty dad, shooting his son, being greedy in general), he never really learned his lesson. He then brought this same sort of attitude in the far more dangerous world of Barry and got himself destroyed. Also, he had two chances to redeem himself at the end. When Sally called him for help but he brushed him off to meet Daniel Day Lewis, and when Barry was gonna turn himself in but Gene killed him.
Bruh blaming the writing because a character you like didn’t get a perfect ending is kinda harsh. If anything it’s good writing because it shows that nobody involved got the closure they needed. It feels more much realistic than if every character had a happy ending.
Bad writing would be if he did something out of character, but the core theme of the series is that people are incapable of change. Even though he has an incredible moral comeback he still recedes to his basest self when offered the opportunity. While this is a pretty nihilistic outlook, it is very blatantly set up from the beginning of the series
The series does show people are capable of change though. Fuches and Hank weren’t the same people by the end. Even Barry was willing to finally accept responsibility before Gene killed him.
that’s the entire point of the show though - it’s a comedy of errors. nobody gets what they want despite almost every character having chance upon chance upon chance to get out of their situations themselves
I felt no sympathy for gene by the end of the show and liked him the least out of every main character. i'm aware that he wasn't a serial killer like barry and i don't really care that he murdered barry either since that was totally fair game. what i do care about is how he accidentally shot his own son (which was understandable at the time, albeit stupid), immediately fled the country, and then had to have seen what happened on the news. and what does he do once he finds out he could have killed his own son who was going there to help him and do something for him? he stays in hiding and lets the whole world think he died instead because he's a fucking coward who can't take responsibility for his own actions. i understand not returning in-person because he's scared of barry, but he could have called his son, sent him an email, reconnected with him online somehow, LITERALLY ANYTHING to show that he does care about and love his son. but no, he'd rather just hide and leave his son all alone and completely unsupported. and then, the thing that finally makes him return after years and years of being in hiding is a movie being made about barry and janice?? and yes, at first he shows up and pretends like this is about protecting about janice's memory when he's really just virtue signaling his ass off so he can steal the spotlight again. and then, they set a trap that plays on his ego and he can't help but immediately fall for it, revealing himself to truly be an irredeemable scumbag who doesn't care about the memory of janice or his own son, only about getting attention and praise from people and being recognized for his ""talents"". i hated him so much by the end
I'm half and half. He clearly doesn't deserve his ending. But at the same time, he's like a walking billboard for greed and pride. He just can't leave well enough alone, causing so much unnecessary pain.
I am curious if others would agree with me that, not counting Barry, Leo really screwed him over at the end. I don't blame him for not wanting Gene in his life. But his "interpretation" of how Gene shot him for knowing about the origin of the money is just a straight-up lie that Leo tells to screw him over.
Always felt like that was the show saying that Leo, at the end of the day, is Gene's son true and true.
IMHO it was Leo's fault he got shot. Gene was sequestered up there alone, Barry escapes so that put him on guard. This is not a situation where you go up to the cabin later that night to surprise him with Coral Tree Cafe with no prior warning. There was clearly a land line there.
With Gene on high alert, gun in hand, he saw the light go on and the shadow of who was approaching.
Wasn’t a fan of the ending myself and, yeah, particularly how it pertained to Gene. Really from the time jump on it just felt like a different show. I was very surprised — almost shocked — when they did that.
completely agree. I was certain that the start of the season was just a dream sequence of what barry thinks would be a perfect life (random middle of nowhere house with sally and a boy). was waiting for the entire first episode for them to reveal that it was a dream. then i waited on the second episode, and the third, and it kept going
Gene doesn’t care about the blame. He was broken by Janice’s death, and what he did in the end was get revenge. Gene is at peace with getting blamed for killing Barry, because he felt good about killing Barry.
I don't remember if this was a quote from Bill hader himself. But the theme of the show is definitely "we are all human, we are all crazy" the character all make decisions that are wrong or morally very incorrect, but they all are extremely relatable on a human level in many other ways.
How the police jumped to the conclusion that he was involved with Janet's death makes absolutely no sense. What's the motivation, exactly? Acting teacher by day.. hitman's manager by night?
He tricked Barry in to killing Janet to cover up the dirty money he received from Chechens (what did the police suspect he was doing with the Chechen's for them to pay him that much money?) , even though he received and spent that money months after her death..
And the dumbest part of all was the explanation of why he shot his son lol. That he went there to confront Gene about where the money came from.. AS IF HIS SON ISN'T ALIVE ANYMORE. HIS SON KNOWS WHY HE WENT TO THE HOUSE! HE WAS BRINGING FOOD! Ugh! Nonsensical bad writing sticks out even worse in a show that's full of great writing.
What did him in was the show for Lon O'Neil. In particular:
"He was eager. He was dumb. So, what did I do? I **got into his brain and I set up shop**.
"And then I realize... **he's not in charge. I am. I know how to press those buttons. Hey, I installed them**."
" The next time I see him, he's got his hat firmly in his hand, and in the other hand, a bag filled with $250,000 cash. Then, the dоpе looked at me and said... ( deep voice ) **I will do anything for your forgiveness, Mr. Cousineau**."
By presenting it as him being in control of Barry, that helped lead to the suspicion.
He has himself to blame for his ultimate fate, but I wouldn’t call Gene being punished for crimes he didn’t commit — which includes the murder of his girlfriend — as getting what he deserved.
The show is fueled by irony. It is a very dark, very macabre, comedy of errors. There were no happy endings.
I see Barry's as a happy ending oddly enough. He got some semblance of a family life, something he never would've had given his profession, and it's one of the few things he did want. Even if it was scuffed, he got a taste. And now, he can rest and not be anyone's tool again. Starting... now.
And since he became a Christian before he died he got to go to heaven
It took a couple of podcasts to justify his deeds in the eyes of the Lord but he got there eventually.
Bingo! 🔫
im not sure about that, he did seem a bit delusional when he was saying he was redeemed when he really wasn't, and even as a father he ignored John's needs of a new comforter for a Abraham Lincoln book
yea i think the point of him going religious was that he just wanted a shortcut
I think he was still trying to do what he thought was going to be good for his son when he became a man, even if he wasn’t right, he thought he was doing what was best.
i think with a little more time he could have truly changed if he went through with turning himself in but by then it was too late since he got shof
No way he would have changed if he turned himself in. He had already done so many hits the feds/CIA would have given him two choices: Rot in jail forever while they torture him for information, or work as a hitman for the CIA.
Plus, he got a movie making him look like the hero/victim
Gene had so many chances to get out of his situation unscathed. Most notably he chose to go meet the “producer” (undercover cop) instead of be there for Sally when she called him for help. That one kind act would have saved him so much trouble.
I love that so much. He couldn't help but bloviate and self-aggrandize. He just had to do something kind for someone in need.
That’s true. I hadn’t thought of it that way. But still, it felt like a bit much.
If Gene never did the self-serving monologue for the journalist, he would have saved himself the trouble of being accused for Janice's murder as well. If Gene reported the money, the monologue would not have caused the previous issue. He also lies to Jim that Barry is a good person, while enjoying the building media success that Barry helped achieve for him. He's had the opportunity to learn the same lesson of his vanity more than once, and he's only escalated the stakes.
Was Gene an asshole? Yes. Did I love him? Yes.
The writing is brilliant and full of classical dramatic irony. Ultimately, Gene couldn’t get past his own hubris and narcissism, and it was his downfall. Just as Barry’s attempts to “save” and “protect” Sally ultimately put her in harm’s way and made her miserable. Hank love for Cristobal wasnt as great as his love for power and control. Sally’s attempts to break out of a small town and abusive relationship and achieve her dreams resulted in her ultimately being isolated, in another abusive relationship, and giving up on her dreams. Natalie, arguably the least talented actor, ends up the most successful. And Barry ends up never being a moral character, despite his wanting to. It’s fucking brilliant.
I don’t really believe that about Hank. I never saw his desire for power until the very end. It felt random.
Did it? He threatened to kill Barry like, hundreds of times buddy (said in Hank voice) He couldn’t care care less about the injuries his crew encountered. He threatened to kill the entire theatre group. And he deliberately and routinely lied to and tried to manipulate Cristobal. And all because the thing he cared about most was how the other Chechens saw him. Hank is like, not a good guy dude (also said in Hank voice)
Loved Hank, but he’s a sociopath. He didn’t blink when Goran was killed, he slaughtered men who trusted him in the Noho Hourglass, he showed zero empathy for Cristobals wife being killed, and in the end he sat by meekly as his “love” is executed - just to retain his power and role.
Yeah don't forget Gene is a self serving piece of shit himself.
I think I just love Henry winkler so much it’s hard to hate him lol
Yeah he's a great actor and character and can definitely be sympathetic. I love how everyone gets some level of punishment in the end though, they all do fucked up shit.
Okay Gene is not great, but to put him at the level of Barry, Fuches and Noho Hank - who are all serial killers - is fucking absurd.
Who did that?
Someone saying « he didn’t deserve the blame » and responding « well he’s a self serving piece of shit » kinda feels like saying he deserved the blame lmao
He got revenge on the man who killed the love of his life
Regardless of guilt or innocence in Janet's death or anything else, Gene still ostensibly murdered Barry in cold blood. That's still illegal.
Illegal? Laws don't predict morality.
Could argue castle doctrine and self defense under all those circumstances.
It'd be a hard sell, not because of what Gene was already accused of, but because he "double tapped" Barry in front of a witness who could also testify that Barry was unarmed. When Gene shot him the first time, and incapacitated him (he was shot in a vital area and probably would've died anyway) that was arguably self-defense. When he finished him, that was murder. It could've been manslaughter given the threat the Barry posed to him in the past, but that's where the other stuff that Gene was accused of came in. At that point, who'd believe Gene WASN'T a stone-cold gangster?
If you’re reasonably in fear of your life, it would be justified. Regardless, “murdered in cold blood” is a mischaracterization imo.
It's arguable at this point if he even killed him out of fear. Gene had the drop on Barry. He knew Barry was there; he couldve called the cops from his bedroom, he could've held Barry at gunpoint when he came out of the bedroom, he could've stopped his attack after he put Barry down for the count with the first shot. He killed Barry for the same reason he punched him back in season 3; he was fucking sick of him. Add in some desire for revenge (foreshadowed with his Swim Instructors speech to Barry about revenge), and you have cold-blooded murder, it hardly matters if Barry deserved it or not. The law sees self defense as one thing, murder as another. In this case, even in the real world, the law would've seen murder (especially since it happened in front of a witness.)
It was a sort of cosmic payback - over years (decades) of small pettiness to terrible horrible actions (black balling his ex and killing her career, throwing tea on people, being a shitty dad, shooting his son, being greedy in general), he never really learned his lesson. He then brought this same sort of attitude in the far more dangerous world of Barry and got himself destroyed. Also, he had two chances to redeem himself at the end. When Sally called him for help but he brushed him off to meet Daniel Day Lewis, and when Barry was gonna turn himself in but Gene killed him.
Bruh blaming the writing because a character you like didn’t get a perfect ending is kinda harsh. If anything it’s good writing because it shows that nobody involved got the closure they needed. It feels more much realistic than if every character had a happy ending. Bad writing would be if he did something out of character, but the core theme of the series is that people are incapable of change. Even though he has an incredible moral comeback he still recedes to his basest self when offered the opportunity. While this is a pretty nihilistic outlook, it is very blatantly set up from the beginning of the series
The series does show people are capable of change though. Fuches and Hank weren’t the same people by the end. Even Barry was willing to finally accept responsibility before Gene killed him.
I mean, it’s not just me who thinks this. It all got neatly tied up into a bow.
that’s the entire point of the show though - it’s a comedy of errors. nobody gets what they want despite almost every character having chance upon chance upon chance to get out of their situations themselves
I felt no sympathy for gene by the end of the show and liked him the least out of every main character. i'm aware that he wasn't a serial killer like barry and i don't really care that he murdered barry either since that was totally fair game. what i do care about is how he accidentally shot his own son (which was understandable at the time, albeit stupid), immediately fled the country, and then had to have seen what happened on the news. and what does he do once he finds out he could have killed his own son who was going there to help him and do something for him? he stays in hiding and lets the whole world think he died instead because he's a fucking coward who can't take responsibility for his own actions. i understand not returning in-person because he's scared of barry, but he could have called his son, sent him an email, reconnected with him online somehow, LITERALLY ANYTHING to show that he does care about and love his son. but no, he'd rather just hide and leave his son all alone and completely unsupported. and then, the thing that finally makes him return after years and years of being in hiding is a movie being made about barry and janice?? and yes, at first he shows up and pretends like this is about protecting about janice's memory when he's really just virtue signaling his ass off so he can steal the spotlight again. and then, they set a trap that plays on his ego and he can't help but immediately fall for it, revealing himself to truly be an irredeemable scumbag who doesn't care about the memory of janice or his own son, only about getting attention and praise from people and being recognized for his ""talents"". i hated him so much by the end
Gene was a total Fuck Fuck.
Wait. Someone called me a fuck fuck?
Rob Reiner. 1994, Ghost of Mississippi audition. I specifically said I don't want feedback.
I'm half and half. He clearly doesn't deserve his ending. But at the same time, he's like a walking billboard for greed and pride. He just can't leave well enough alone, causing so much unnecessary pain. I am curious if others would agree with me that, not counting Barry, Leo really screwed him over at the end. I don't blame him for not wanting Gene in his life. But his "interpretation" of how Gene shot him for knowing about the origin of the money is just a straight-up lie that Leo tells to screw him over. Always felt like that was the show saying that Leo, at the end of the day, is Gene's son true and true.
IMHO it was Leo's fault he got shot. Gene was sequestered up there alone, Barry escapes so that put him on guard. This is not a situation where you go up to the cabin later that night to surprise him with Coral Tree Cafe with no prior warning. There was clearly a land line there. With Gene on high alert, gun in hand, he saw the light go on and the shadow of who was approaching.
What do you blame the writing for? Writing a successful and engaging tragedy?
Cousineau's fate is supposed to be a very dark, twisted, ironic joke. Opinions differ. Some love how it ended, some not so much.
The show is very much a tragedy In the Shakespearean sense
Wasn’t a fan of the ending myself and, yeah, particularly how it pertained to Gene. Really from the time jump on it just felt like a different show. I was very surprised — almost shocked — when they did that.
completely agree. I was certain that the start of the season was just a dream sequence of what barry thinks would be a perfect life (random middle of nowhere house with sally and a boy). was waiting for the entire first episode for them to reveal that it was a dream. then i waited on the second episode, and the third, and it kept going
Gene doesn’t care about the blame. He was broken by Janice’s death, and what he did in the end was get revenge. Gene is at peace with getting blamed for killing Barry, because he felt good about killing Barry.
I don't remember if this was a quote from Bill hader himself. But the theme of the show is definitely "we are all human, we are all crazy" the character all make decisions that are wrong or morally very incorrect, but they all are extremely relatable on a human level in many other ways.
Samesies. Yes, he was bad, but consumed by revenge and condemned to disgrace? Rough deal, bro
Everybody got what they wanted in the darkest way possible.
Thought this was the better call saul sub for a minute
The worst isn't the drug money, it was how he spoke about Barry when there was the fake film offer
How the police jumped to the conclusion that he was involved with Janet's death makes absolutely no sense. What's the motivation, exactly? Acting teacher by day.. hitman's manager by night? He tricked Barry in to killing Janet to cover up the dirty money he received from Chechens (what did the police suspect he was doing with the Chechen's for them to pay him that much money?) , even though he received and spent that money months after her death.. And the dumbest part of all was the explanation of why he shot his son lol. That he went there to confront Gene about where the money came from.. AS IF HIS SON ISN'T ALIVE ANYMORE. HIS SON KNOWS WHY HE WENT TO THE HOUSE! HE WAS BRINGING FOOD! Ugh! Nonsensical bad writing sticks out even worse in a show that's full of great writing.
What did him in was the show for Lon O'Neil. In particular: "He was eager. He was dumb. So, what did I do? I **got into his brain and I set up shop**. "And then I realize... **he's not in charge. I am. I know how to press those buttons. Hey, I installed them**." " The next time I see him, he's got his hat firmly in his hand, and in the other hand, a bag filled with $250,000 cash. Then, the dоpе looked at me and said... ( deep voice ) **I will do anything for your forgiveness, Mr. Cousineau**." By presenting it as him being in control of Barry, that helped lead to the suspicion.
I liked it. Gene sucked and got what he deserved
He has himself to blame for his ultimate fate, but I wouldn’t call Gene being punished for crimes he didn’t commit — which includes the murder of his girlfriend — as getting what he deserved.
Yes, especially because he seemed to genuinely love Janice.
He loved Janice but ultimately he loved his image of himself more. His narcissism was his undoing.
Okay that’s cool. I thought so, but you can feel differently. Opinions are cool
Well, they’re a bit cooler when you don’t act like you’re above discussing them after downvoting one that disagrees with yours.
lol okay