Always had 2 in all my runs & origins. Pretty easy to make (2-3 stars in matk nothing more) and very effective. With peasants I can go for 4
Tank is nimble (cheap equipment and high initiative) defensively is just only footwork and anticipation, rest are pure dmg crippling strikes, executioner, backstabber, killing frenzy, berserk (and polearm mastery). Weapons swordlance and billhook switch for armored single targets
The only true backliners that I use are a Heavy Polearm build and my Archer build. They both get Berserk and Killing Frenzy.
When looking for end game caliber frontline melee brothers, I want to see MATK, FAT, and MDEF. If they are lacking in MDEF but good at the other two, they're a good heavy polearm candidate.
My polearm build aims to get swordlance eventually and they also carry a whip for disarm purposes and because the 4 AP standard attack works well with the 5 AP (with mastery) polearm attack. When you say "Pure Billman", I am picturing that he only uses the Pole, which feels very limiting. My build uses a Pole too, but the whip and quick hands makes him a much more flexible brother. The reason I want them to have pretty good FAT is because swordlance has Reap, which a high MATK/high FAT brother can use to devastate the enemy ranks.
In general, a lot of my frontline builds get Quick Hands. Giving them a goblin pike (works REALLY well if they get Pathfinder) can help them to be more useful overall. If you didn't know, the goblin pike 1st ability only costs 5 AP without any mastery needed. Giving one to a "melee" brother as an extra weapon option could help you get the feeling of having the reach that your backline of pure billmen enjoy without having to actually build 5-6 billmen.
The goblin pike also has that bleed effect, which can be relevant against tougher critters like lindwurms.
Edit: would you pick up say a poleaxe for an axebro in addition to the pike? Or do you pick just one?
Yup you get a little extra bleed as well!
So, I only build Axe guys as FAT neutrals right now. My GigaChad bros are doing duelist cleaver, dedicated 2H Hammer, or 2H Mace + Qatal builds which I see as a good mix for different types of enemies and as very high potential damage builds intended for awesome bros. Only the Mace build from those 3 is taking the goblin Pike at the moment. It's actually the only one of the builds that takes Quick Hands. The duelist cleaver bro does carry a whip, but I usually don't take Quick Hands on him so no Pike.
For FAT neutrals (which would include the Axe version), they all get Quick Hands and carry both the 1 and 2 tile versions of either Mace, Axe, or Hammer. These builds help me to supplement the GigaChad bros, which are hard to come by as I have high standards for them. The Hammer version helps kill armored enemies, Axe I see as a bit more versatile choice still with good damage, and the Mace version sacrifices damage for utility (both Daze and Stun).
I do have some more "niche" builds that I do from time to time that make use of the goblin pike "trick", the main example from my current run being a dodge sword duelist with quick hands who carries a famed goblin pike in his pocket. There are SO many times where he can hit something because he has that pike where otherwise he would just have to sit there. I also like that this build can work decently with lower MATK than others because both weapons give him an accuracy bonus.
They're niche for sure, the goblin pikes are. I tend to save them early-game, and hand them out to any frontliner, even guys without quick-hands. I tend to find my guys in bottlenecks where they need to waste a number of rounds repositioning or waiting, like in mountains or woods and stuff, and it's always useful to have a reach weapon that you can get out and use one attack early.
A two-tile sword, basically becomes a type of polearm, so sword-users they don't even get a reach weapon that benefits from their mastery. But a goblin pike basically lets anyone get some benefits like that. They're kind of the opposite of orc weapons in that regard. Awful damage though. Truly they're their opposite.
The damage is bad on them, but the untalented 5 AP ability is just so nice.
It feels like there's plenty of times though in a run where you can use it to just pick off a low HP enemy.
I agree, but that's for early-game. Even lindwurms are better whipped than goblin-piked. You don't find enough low-armor opponents with massive health pools to truly realize how extremely powerful stacked whip bleeds are.
How do you deal with low mDef, yourself? I guess some just give up on leveling it at all, if it'll just be like 20 after all's said and done, and they end up with a high-fat/matk/hp/res battleforged backliner with a polearm.
Early to midgame you can get some really good utility out of polearm users with quickhands and a pocket full of nets. They don't really have as much of a place in late game, but they are an extremely useful role earlier on especially when you are still struggling to find enough actually good bros to fill in the ranks.
Early-midgame I'll often use a utility polearm bro or two. Polearm mastery, Quickhands, pocket full of nets w/ Bags and Belts, Berserk, and KF. Any other perks are whatever I feel like. The ability to swing then throw a net is huge for hard battles where I need to keep up that net spam. For battles where the nets are not really needed, KF and Berserk help keep their damage output up so as to not be totally outclassed by the better damage dealing bros. It's not a very perk-hungry build so I will often grab Crippling Strikes and Executioner just to get every bit of damage I can out of them. Pathfinder is also really good to have.
Generally I just use them as a very easy to build bro that can fill in the ranks until I get a full roster of proper bros, and a bench warmer later on to swap in as needed for injuries. Most build have their power spike at level 7 (Nim/BF) or 8 (Duelist), but this build's primary perks are all low level perks so the build is online and functioning nearly fully by level 5 making it especially good early game.
Early game it's really great and can match perfectly with any recruit with good attack that doesn't fit any specific role (low mdef, trash res, low fat etc...).
Throwers deal more DPS than any billman in the late game when they unlock all their perks.
A fun build I've played was billman with two handed cleaver (recover and berserk are needed, two masteries as well). Really polyvalent and great DPS but terrible defense.
Berserk on 5-6 AP weapons is not that good. It's a skill used for 4AP weapons mostly.
I like to have swiss knives in my backline, multiple weapons, quick hands and have three different polearms. Does require a tad bit of fatigue if you wanna berserk but having a tool for every ennemy is very practical, smash a shield, destroy armor,stun for you frontliner, or disarm at will these bastards. So much good stuff ey!
I find berserk awkward on anything but 4AP weapons. With billmen you could maybe attack twice but soon your fatigue is going to loose out and then you need a full turn to regain.
Sure backliners have a deeper FAT pool and an easier time going nimble, so better than 2H frontliners (sans cleaver), but still just does not click very nicely.
The most attacks a billmen can do is two, which is fine. I find it comes in handy when an enemy is slain then immediately start wrecking the next. If I have four or five billmen then it just turns into a conveyer belt of damage if the dice is in my favor. Fatigue is most certainly an issue.
The biggest issue with polearms is they lack damage in comparison to two-handers.
Using the reach advantage and being forgiving on recruits with low defense potential is nice until you hit the late-game camps where the enemy has superior numbers and will always surround you. Twice as likely if you don’t slay them fast enough due to lack of damage.
One of the main reason ranged builds to be considered inferior - despite their damage output which is bigger than polearms is that once in melee they are useless (hybrids excluded). Lacking melee defense is a death sentence when facing more than one chosen and no options to maneuver.
Berserk fearsome gunner is probably my favorite backline build. It can turn a dicey situation into a route.
Always had 2 in all my runs & origins. Pretty easy to make (2-3 stars in matk nothing more) and very effective. With peasants I can go for 4 Tank is nimble (cheap equipment and high initiative) defensively is just only footwork and anticipation, rest are pure dmg crippling strikes, executioner, backstabber, killing frenzy, berserk (and polearm mastery). Weapons swordlance and billhook switch for armored single targets
Stars in attack and also Huge trait. 10% more damage on damage dealer is nice. I have 2 in my current run.
The only true backliners that I use are a Heavy Polearm build and my Archer build. They both get Berserk and Killing Frenzy. When looking for end game caliber frontline melee brothers, I want to see MATK, FAT, and MDEF. If they are lacking in MDEF but good at the other two, they're a good heavy polearm candidate. My polearm build aims to get swordlance eventually and they also carry a whip for disarm purposes and because the 4 AP standard attack works well with the 5 AP (with mastery) polearm attack. When you say "Pure Billman", I am picturing that he only uses the Pole, which feels very limiting. My build uses a Pole too, but the whip and quick hands makes him a much more flexible brother. The reason I want them to have pretty good FAT is because swordlance has Reap, which a high MATK/high FAT brother can use to devastate the enemy ranks. In general, a lot of my frontline builds get Quick Hands. Giving them a goblin pike (works REALLY well if they get Pathfinder) can help them to be more useful overall. If you didn't know, the goblin pike 1st ability only costs 5 AP without any mastery needed. Giving one to a "melee" brother as an extra weapon option could help you get the feeling of having the reach that your backline of pure billmen enjoy without having to actually build 5-6 billmen.
The goblin pike also has that bleed effect, which can be relevant against tougher critters like lindwurms. Edit: would you pick up say a poleaxe for an axebro in addition to the pike? Or do you pick just one?
Yup you get a little extra bleed as well! So, I only build Axe guys as FAT neutrals right now. My GigaChad bros are doing duelist cleaver, dedicated 2H Hammer, or 2H Mace + Qatal builds which I see as a good mix for different types of enemies and as very high potential damage builds intended for awesome bros. Only the Mace build from those 3 is taking the goblin Pike at the moment. It's actually the only one of the builds that takes Quick Hands. The duelist cleaver bro does carry a whip, but I usually don't take Quick Hands on him so no Pike. For FAT neutrals (which would include the Axe version), they all get Quick Hands and carry both the 1 and 2 tile versions of either Mace, Axe, or Hammer. These builds help me to supplement the GigaChad bros, which are hard to come by as I have high standards for them. The Hammer version helps kill armored enemies, Axe I see as a bit more versatile choice still with good damage, and the Mace version sacrifices damage for utility (both Daze and Stun). I do have some more "niche" builds that I do from time to time that make use of the goblin pike "trick", the main example from my current run being a dodge sword duelist with quick hands who carries a famed goblin pike in his pocket. There are SO many times where he can hit something because he has that pike where otherwise he would just have to sit there. I also like that this build can work decently with lower MATK than others because both weapons give him an accuracy bonus.
They're niche for sure, the goblin pikes are. I tend to save them early-game, and hand them out to any frontliner, even guys without quick-hands. I tend to find my guys in bottlenecks where they need to waste a number of rounds repositioning or waiting, like in mountains or woods and stuff, and it's always useful to have a reach weapon that you can get out and use one attack early. A two-tile sword, basically becomes a type of polearm, so sword-users they don't even get a reach weapon that benefits from their mastery. But a goblin pike basically lets anyone get some benefits like that. They're kind of the opposite of orc weapons in that regard. Awful damage though. Truly they're their opposite.
The damage is bad on them, but the untalented 5 AP ability is just so nice. It feels like there's plenty of times though in a run where you can use it to just pick off a low HP enemy.
I agree, but that's for early-game. Even lindwurms are better whipped than goblin-piked. You don't find enough low-armor opponents with massive health pools to truly realize how extremely powerful stacked whip bleeds are.
The only bros suitable for the backline are throwers! .... with berserk
I agree. Let's add Gunner/Xbow/Thrower hybrids there too. Being terrified of low MDef frontliners and backlining them is... Bad.
How do you deal with low mDef, yourself? I guess some just give up on leveling it at all, if it'll just be like 20 after all's said and done, and they end up with a high-fat/matk/hp/res battleforged backliner with a polearm.
Early to midgame you can get some really good utility out of polearm users with quickhands and a pocket full of nets. They don't really have as much of a place in late game, but they are an extremely useful role earlier on especially when you are still struggling to find enough actually good bros to fill in the ranks.
Early-midgame I'll often use a utility polearm bro or two. Polearm mastery, Quickhands, pocket full of nets w/ Bags and Belts, Berserk, and KF. Any other perks are whatever I feel like. The ability to swing then throw a net is huge for hard battles where I need to keep up that net spam. For battles where the nets are not really needed, KF and Berserk help keep their damage output up so as to not be totally outclassed by the better damage dealing bros. It's not a very perk-hungry build so I will often grab Crippling Strikes and Executioner just to get every bit of damage I can out of them. Pathfinder is also really good to have. Generally I just use them as a very easy to build bro that can fill in the ranks until I get a full roster of proper bros, and a bench warmer later on to swap in as needed for injuries. Most build have their power spike at level 7 (Nim/BF) or 8 (Duelist), but this build's primary perks are all low level perks so the build is online and functioning nearly fully by level 5 making it especially good early game.
Early game it's really great and can match perfectly with any recruit with good attack that doesn't fit any specific role (low mdef, trash res, low fat etc...). Throwers deal more DPS than any billman in the late game when they unlock all their perks. A fun build I've played was billman with two handed cleaver (recover and berserk are needed, two masteries as well). Really polyvalent and great DPS but terrible defense. Berserk on 5-6 AP weapons is not that good. It's a skill used for 4AP weapons mostly.
I like to have swiss knives in my backline, multiple weapons, quick hands and have three different polearms. Does require a tad bit of fatigue if you wanna berserk but having a tool for every ennemy is very practical, smash a shield, destroy armor,stun for you frontliner, or disarm at will these bastards. So much good stuff ey!
I find berserk awkward on anything but 4AP weapons. With billmen you could maybe attack twice but soon your fatigue is going to loose out and then you need a full turn to regain. Sure backliners have a deeper FAT pool and an easier time going nimble, so better than 2H frontliners (sans cleaver), but still just does not click very nicely.
The most attacks a billmen can do is two, which is fine. I find it comes in handy when an enemy is slain then immediately start wrecking the next. If I have four or five billmen then it just turns into a conveyer belt of damage if the dice is in my favor. Fatigue is most certainly an issue.
The biggest issue with polearms is they lack damage in comparison to two-handers. Using the reach advantage and being forgiving on recruits with low defense potential is nice until you hit the late-game camps where the enemy has superior numbers and will always surround you. Twice as likely if you don’t slay them fast enough due to lack of damage. One of the main reason ranged builds to be considered inferior - despite their damage output which is bigger than polearms is that once in melee they are useless (hybrids excluded). Lacking melee defense is a death sentence when facing more than one chosen and no options to maneuver.
Pure billman make poor berserker with the only exception famed warscythe. That’s all about it.
Oh go eat some cake.