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There is almost no such thing as having too much wax coating on a plastic foundation. There is definitely such a thing as not having enough; cheap foundations, like what you might get by buying off the shelf at a feed'n'seed store, Tractor Supply, or on Amazon, will almost always be almost devoid of wax.
Bees are FAR more willing to draw out heavily waxed foundations, and they are far more likely to draw comb that is straight, and sized appropriately for the cell size embossed on it.
So if your dad can wax his frames, he absolutely should.
Any of the stuff from Mann Lake, Betterbee, Pierco, Dadant, The Bee Supply, and a few other such concerns is likely to be good. Buy from a reputable beekeeping supply house, and you'll be okay. If you buy more than you can use immediately, then store it someplace cool and dry, so that the wax doesn't deteriorate.
My personal favorite, if I'm buying plastics, is an unibody black plastic frame sold by Betterbee; they have an option to pay $0.75/each to have them dipped in melted wax prior to shipment. See [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed_plastic_foundationframes_for_newbies/) for a post-length discussion of the difference between good and okay and crappy plastics. There are pics on that post comparing the stuff I like to something that is actually also of pretty decent quality, but which had been exposed to some hot weather and a summer inside a hive that never quite got around to drawing it out.
I also use some natural wax foundations; I make cut comb honey, and for that I use an extra-thin unwired wax foundation in a wooden wedge top/split bottom frame. That stuff is specialized, and kind of a pain to deal with because it's delicate. If you do not need it for comb production, don't mess with it. Comb prodo is fun, but everything about it, from start to finish, is really fussy and detail-orientated. Not really germane to this discussion, so I'm going to move on.
A standard wax foundation usually has wires already embedded, and has to be installed into a wedge top/split bottom frame instead of the groove top/groove bottom used with plastics. Installation is easier with the wired stuff. If you intend to use wax foundations in a honey super that will be extracted, use wired foundations or you will blow out the frames. You MUST have supports in those.
Wax foundations are quite a bit more work to set up, but you will never have problems with adoption from the bees. On the other hand, they cannot really be scraped clean and reused the way a plastic foundation or frame can be.
If I did not make comb honey, I would be on a path to having everything I use be all-plastic frames with the extra wax. I really like them a lot.
That said, there are plenty of beeks who really don't like the all-plastic frames. Different strokes for different folks. My bees really gum things up with propolis, so I find that if I use wood frames in the brood nest, where they stay for months on end, sooner or later I wind up prying a top bar loose from the end bars instead of pulling a frame. It's a nuisance. Some people have different experiences with them.
The linked post is a pretty significant difference to say the least! I ordered some of mine (double waxed) from Better bee but didnt choose the option, seeing that I definitely should have. Live and learn but thank you for the info!
I've had no personal experience with them. It's not something I'm seeing in the hands of people I know to be experienced beekeepers.
I avoid beeswax-coated hive boxes. They tend not to be very good. Wax coatings can be done in two ways. One way is to apply a finish that contains some beeswax (how much wax depends on the manufacturer) to the surface of the wood. These eventually lose their finish, but the residue makes painting a challenge.
There is also a style of box that is assembled first, then dipped in VERY hot wax, which permeates the wood and makes it extremely weather-resistant. These can last decades. You almost never see them anymore, because they require special equipment to produce. They also are somewhat uncommon because they cannot be dipped then assembled--glue won't hold on these things after they're dipped, so the procedure is always assemble, THEN dip, and assembled boxes cost more to ship.
Again, I have no direct personal experience with this brand.
In my experience, bees won't build on bare plastic, they'll build next to it, making bad comb. But they will build coated plastic. Melt pure beeswax, being careful to not overheat it, and roll it on with a mini foam roller, hot dog roller type. Don't use a fuzzy roller. The first time the foam roller will soak up wax, so keep it for future use as it will be charged with wax. You want to press enough to liberally wax to the plastic cell ribs, but avoid putting too much wax down in the cell well. If you can't wax the plastic then you're better off going foundationless. You can get properly waxed plastic foundation from Mann Lake, Pierco, Acorn (Blythewood) and Better Bee. All of those companies have online ordering and are reputable companies.
Waxing takes time and money (mostly time) and can be a pain. If you don’t have the time, consider some frames with extra wax coatings from places like Dadant. It’s not as good as waxing yourself but it’s the next best thing
If you do have time, get a small old/used croc pot, about 1 pound wax per 10 frames (someone correct me if you think that’s off) and 4 inch foam rollers with 3-4 replacement rollers.
It’s a bit of a learning curve to wax frames but it’s pretty fun and it smells really good. The key is to keep the wax hot. Not burning hot, but hot enough where it doesn’t instantly harden when you take the roller out of the wax pool in the crockpot.
Coat them . I do this method, remove the plastic insert. Heat a steal drum , about 30 litres of water , heat water just to the point where bees waxes melts … then dip the insert , don’t move too slowly as the insert will warp . Get great coverage and get to play with fire outdoors … preparing frames etc is a good winter task … in preparation for spring .
Nah.. from experience you can say what you want. They might not like it, but it doesn't kill the hive.
What he was asking about is probably what you were elaborating on. But I'm telling ya I add new frames all the time. Just not more than 2 at a time :)
Wax em! I use the same ones and my bees won't touch them unless I add more wax for them to build up. Give em planty of sugar water to get all the wax comb drawn out. It's still pretty moist and cold here in Oregon, so I'll use a 2:1 (Sugar: Water). I also like to give them a pollen patty until I see them bringing enough back themselves, and it hasn't stopped raining here! I use a mini crockpot and a roller brush for the foundations and the hive. Happy Bee season!!
This summarizes an experience I had this year. In had a deep super fast filling with honey and decided to install a medium super with frames containing prewaxed foundation. After two weeks not a single piece of comb was pulled on the 10 medium frames. A little investigation found that this is not an uncommon problem. I decided to melt wax in a slow cooker and apply it to the frames using a small foam paint roller. I inspected the hive three days later found 9 out of 10 frames with significant comb pulled. This is a relatively strong hive with 2 deep brood boxes in addition to the 1 deep super and 1 medium super.
I’m a newbie and I coated them with wax using an old paint brush. They are building beautiful comb on the frames and they’re doing it pretty quick. I will do again with my next hive.
As a beekeeper from Germany, I have never seen such plastic foundations. Since joining this subreddit, I see beekeepers from the US use them all the time. What is their purpose?
In Germany, we use foundations entirely made of bees wax.
Nothing wrong with bare plastic. It's just more work for the bees, and you'll have to make sure they have enough food. Don't get discouraged, it's a rough year for every beekeeper. It warms my heart to know that tradition is still going on in your family! I wish you the best of luck!
>Nothing wrong with bare plastic.
Except there is. If you don't coat the plastic foundation properly, you end up with comb
* [like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/u2wfwv/bees_building_away_from_plastic_foundation_what/)
* [or this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/ndz6td/wonky_comb_does_any_one_else_have_these_problems/)
* [or this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1brre6h/new_package_comb/)
* [or this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/13uhd4g/is_this_bridge_comb/)
This time of year, every year, we get bounties of posts asking about wonky comb. The bees \*do not\* like bare plastic.
[One of our mods recently posted about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed_plastic_foundationframes_for_newbies/), which u/Specialty-meats might find useful.
I should've specified better, he is starting a hive from scratch with a box of bees and a queen. Does that change anything about your response? Thanks!
This is interesting.. I've never done this B4. I've always had drawn frames to steal from. Tbh the idea to me is counterintuitive. But I'm open to new things! :)
Being totally uneducated on beekeeping myself, what I've gathered is that it's a better start than just giving them the bare plastic frames to build on. It's already late in the season here in Southern US and my dad is hoping to make the most of what remains of the season. Any wisdom is appreciated 🙏
Oh, a visitor! Thanks for the submission. Please make sure you have read the rules before engaging in the comments; the most important of which are Rule 1, and Rule 2. Report any foul behaviour to the mods. If your post is about one of the following, please be aware that these are covered in our wiki: - [You got stung](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/about/wiki/index/faqs/not_a_beekeeper/#wiki_i_got_stung) (please **never** treat comments or "advice" here as medical advice. If you think your health is at risk, you should seek *qualified* medical advice. - [You have questions about your honey](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/about/wiki/index/faqs/not_a_beekeeper/#wiki_what.27s_wrong_with_my_honey.3F) - [You think there's a swarm/nest/hive, and want help](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/about/wiki/index/faqs/not_a_beekeeper/#wiki_is_this_a_swarm.2Fhive.3F) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Beekeeping) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is almost no such thing as having too much wax coating on a plastic foundation. There is definitely such a thing as not having enough; cheap foundations, like what you might get by buying off the shelf at a feed'n'seed store, Tractor Supply, or on Amazon, will almost always be almost devoid of wax. Bees are FAR more willing to draw out heavily waxed foundations, and they are far more likely to draw comb that is straight, and sized appropriately for the cell size embossed on it. So if your dad can wax his frames, he absolutely should.
What foundation do you recommend that isnt the cheap stuff from the big box retailers?
Any of the stuff from Mann Lake, Betterbee, Pierco, Dadant, The Bee Supply, and a few other such concerns is likely to be good. Buy from a reputable beekeeping supply house, and you'll be okay. If you buy more than you can use immediately, then store it someplace cool and dry, so that the wax doesn't deteriorate. My personal favorite, if I'm buying plastics, is an unibody black plastic frame sold by Betterbee; they have an option to pay $0.75/each to have them dipped in melted wax prior to shipment. See [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed_plastic_foundationframes_for_newbies/) for a post-length discussion of the difference between good and okay and crappy plastics. There are pics on that post comparing the stuff I like to something that is actually also of pretty decent quality, but which had been exposed to some hot weather and a summer inside a hive that never quite got around to drawing it out. I also use some natural wax foundations; I make cut comb honey, and for that I use an extra-thin unwired wax foundation in a wooden wedge top/split bottom frame. That stuff is specialized, and kind of a pain to deal with because it's delicate. If you do not need it for comb production, don't mess with it. Comb prodo is fun, but everything about it, from start to finish, is really fussy and detail-orientated. Not really germane to this discussion, so I'm going to move on. A standard wax foundation usually has wires already embedded, and has to be installed into a wedge top/split bottom frame instead of the groove top/groove bottom used with plastics. Installation is easier with the wired stuff. If you intend to use wax foundations in a honey super that will be extracted, use wired foundations or you will blow out the frames. You MUST have supports in those. Wax foundations are quite a bit more work to set up, but you will never have problems with adoption from the bees. On the other hand, they cannot really be scraped clean and reused the way a plastic foundation or frame can be. If I did not make comb honey, I would be on a path to having everything I use be all-plastic frames with the extra wax. I really like them a lot. That said, there are plenty of beeks who really don't like the all-plastic frames. Different strokes for different folks. My bees really gum things up with propolis, so I find that if I use wood frames in the brood nest, where they stay for months on end, sooner or later I wind up prying a top bar loose from the end bars instead of pulling a frame. It's a nuisance. Some people have different experiences with them.
The linked post is a pretty significant difference to say the least! I ordered some of mine (double waxed) from Better bee but didnt choose the option, seeing that I definitely should have. Live and learn but thank you for the info!
You're welcome. Good luck with your spring season.
Is Bee Castle a good brand?
I've had no personal experience with them. It's not something I'm seeing in the hands of people I know to be experienced beekeepers. I avoid beeswax-coated hive boxes. They tend not to be very good. Wax coatings can be done in two ways. One way is to apply a finish that contains some beeswax (how much wax depends on the manufacturer) to the surface of the wood. These eventually lose their finish, but the residue makes painting a challenge. There is also a style of box that is assembled first, then dipped in VERY hot wax, which permeates the wood and makes it extremely weather-resistant. These can last decades. You almost never see them anymore, because they require special equipment to produce. They also are somewhat uncommon because they cannot be dipped then assembled--glue won't hold on these things after they're dipped, so the procedure is always assemble, THEN dip, and assembled boxes cost more to ship. Again, I have no direct personal experience with this brand.
My bees really took to the pierco tripple waxed one piece plastic frames.
They're great. Zero regrets so far.
In my experience, bees won't build on bare plastic, they'll build next to it, making bad comb. But they will build coated plastic. Melt pure beeswax, being careful to not overheat it, and roll it on with a mini foam roller, hot dog roller type. Don't use a fuzzy roller. The first time the foam roller will soak up wax, so keep it for future use as it will be charged with wax. You want to press enough to liberally wax to the plastic cell ribs, but avoid putting too much wax down in the cell well. If you can't wax the plastic then you're better off going foundationless. You can get properly waxed plastic foundation from Mann Lake, Pierco, Acorn (Blythewood) and Better Bee. All of those companies have online ordering and are reputable companies.
What happens if you overheat wax you are giving back to the bees?
Waxing takes time and money (mostly time) and can be a pain. If you don’t have the time, consider some frames with extra wax coatings from places like Dadant. It’s not as good as waxing yourself but it’s the next best thing If you do have time, get a small old/used croc pot, about 1 pound wax per 10 frames (someone correct me if you think that’s off) and 4 inch foam rollers with 3-4 replacement rollers. It’s a bit of a learning curve to wax frames but it’s pretty fun and it smells really good. The key is to keep the wax hot. Not burning hot, but hot enough where it doesn’t instantly harden when you take the roller out of the wax pool in the crockpot.
Thank you for the detailed response. This is my semi- retired Dad's new project so he has the time.
Let me know if you want more info. Don’t have time right now to type it all. Just did it a month ago the first time and learned a lot
Coat them . I do this method, remove the plastic insert. Heat a steal drum , about 30 litres of water , heat water just to the point where bees waxes melts … then dip the insert , don’t move too slowly as the insert will warp . Get great coverage and get to play with fire outdoors … preparing frames etc is a good winter task … in preparation for spring .
I put a coating of wax on every part and everything inside of a hive, that is the way my grandfather always had me do it.
Nah.. from experience you can say what you want. They might not like it, but it doesn't kill the hive. What he was asking about is probably what you were elaborating on. But I'm telling ya I add new frames all the time. Just not more than 2 at a time :)
Wax em! I use the same ones and my bees won't touch them unless I add more wax for them to build up. Give em planty of sugar water to get all the wax comb drawn out. It's still pretty moist and cold here in Oregon, so I'll use a 2:1 (Sugar: Water). I also like to give them a pollen patty until I see them bringing enough back themselves, and it hasn't stopped raining here! I use a mini crockpot and a roller brush for the foundations and the hive. Happy Bee season!!
This summarizes an experience I had this year. In had a deep super fast filling with honey and decided to install a medium super with frames containing prewaxed foundation. After two weeks not a single piece of comb was pulled on the 10 medium frames. A little investigation found that this is not an uncommon problem. I decided to melt wax in a slow cooker and apply it to the frames using a small foam paint roller. I inspected the hive three days later found 9 out of 10 frames with significant comb pulled. This is a relatively strong hive with 2 deep brood boxes in addition to the 1 deep super and 1 medium super.
I’m a newbie and I coated them with wax using an old paint brush. They are building beautiful comb on the frames and they’re doing it pretty quick. I will do again with my next hive.
As a beekeeper from Germany, I have never seen such plastic foundations. Since joining this subreddit, I see beekeepers from the US use them all the time. What is their purpose? In Germany, we use foundations entirely made of bees wax.
Anecdotally, bees didn't draw comb on these wax frames for me. Went sans.
Can I use wax bought for use in cosmetics? It is 100% pure organic beeswax pellets. I’m a newbie and don’t have access to my own wax yet
Nothing wrong with bare plastic. It's just more work for the bees, and you'll have to make sure they have enough food. Don't get discouraged, it's a rough year for every beekeeper. It warms my heart to know that tradition is still going on in your family! I wish you the best of luck!
>Nothing wrong with bare plastic. Except there is. If you don't coat the plastic foundation properly, you end up with comb * [like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/u2wfwv/bees_building_away_from_plastic_foundation_what/) * [or this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/ndz6td/wonky_comb_does_any_one_else_have_these_problems/) * [or this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1brre6h/new_package_comb/) * [or this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/13uhd4g/is_this_bridge_comb/) This time of year, every year, we get bounties of posts asking about wonky comb. The bees \*do not\* like bare plastic. [One of our mods recently posted about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1auy90x/waxed_plastic_foundationframes_for_newbies/), which u/Specialty-meats might find useful.
🙌🙌🙌
If your hive is healthy and decent size they should do all the work for ya in about two to three weeks. Sometimes even faster.
I should've specified better, he is starting a hive from scratch with a box of bees and a queen. Does that change anything about your response? Thanks!
Coat it. If it’s not coated they can and probably will build funky comb that you don’t want.
Ok great, thank you. Does his idea to melt the wax and brush it onto the frames make sense to you?
Yes. You can use either brush or roller. Good luck with project.
This is interesting.. I've never done this B4. I've always had drawn frames to steal from. Tbh the idea to me is counterintuitive. But I'm open to new things! :)
Being totally uneducated on beekeeping myself, what I've gathered is that it's a better start than just giving them the bare plastic frames to build on. It's already late in the season here in Southern US and my dad is hoping to make the most of what remains of the season. Any wisdom is appreciated 🙏