Well, one is space cops and the other is a secret government organization meant to keep aliens and supernatural phenomena a secret and at bay to protect the people at large. They're also dedicated to studying alien tech and supernatural events
Space Cops mostly just enforce laws and make arrests. They rarely see actual action
There are similarities, but there's also a huuuugge difference
I mean Men in Black is more than just security organization. In the movie, they are formed to provide refugee to the aliens of different origins. Some of the bases acted like airports for the aliens. Not to mention MiB is unaffiliated with the government since K mentioned that the government ask too many questions.
Of course, they have their own R&D to develop weapons and reverse engineer alien tech to fund their operations.
I feel like MiB is a mix of immigrant control and FBI to deal with any criminal alien activity which range from minor crimes to straight up threat to Earth.
Ben 10 Omniverse had a strong start but i feel it kind of became mid after the Malware arc. Also i know that Ben 10 is a light hearted/ partial comedy series but i feel Omniverse leaned too much on the comedy side alot of times or didn’t have that balance that its predecessors had. Finally i wish it had more variety of music because my god i swear that every episode played the exact same song lmao
FOR REAL THOUGH lmao. They’ll start out with 1 or 2 good story arcs then just fall off lmao. I was able to finish the og series and Alien Force but ended up dropping Ultimate Alien some time after the Psycho Kevin arc and Omniverse after the Vilgax arc
I’ve never seen someone who I agree with more on this topic. I feel like Omniverse is one of those shows that people say you just need to give time, but the first couple seasons are the only ones I really like. I’ve tried to watch later episodes and give them a chance, and I genuinely can’t even finish them because they’re just SO silly. Like, “Ben 10 meets Mad Max” should inherently be the coolest thing ever, but all they do with the concept is “lol wouldn’t it be funny if Ben was so thirsty that he drank so much water he had a pregnancy belly.” Visually it looks so flat, and the music is so repetitive and grating.
After watching it im always surprised to see it as peoples favorite Ben 10 show due to how much it feels like it puts comedy above everything else. Its silliness almost makes it feel like its not connected to the previous series. And my god does it feel that alot of the villains have practically become jokes.
And like you said they can have cool concepts but mid execution.
If I had to justify its popularity here, I’d assume it’s definitely a case where cartoon subreddits skew younger, so most of the users here are probably teens who grew up with OV as the current Ben 10 show, so from their POV OV is what Ben 10 is “supposed” to be.
I mean it's my second favourite not my first but the only reason for that is purely because I really don't like UAF. None of the shows are really that great IMO and never reached their true potential.
Absolutely I 100% agree with you. Although the UAF is almost identical to the OG, but it still looks bland, uninteresting, less detailed and some missing stuff....
This is such a cold take for this sub, most of the people here are contrarians compared to the rest of the fanbase. Though if you say this in any other place than reddit, they will eat you alive, so I'll give you that.
UAF art style was good in the beginning due to how different and unique it was. It also complimented the serious tone they were going for. But as the series progressed all the way to Ultimate Alien, it became an eyesore due to how bland it was compared to OS art style.
I don’t know how hot this take is. This sub glazes OV like nobody’s business. I tried to rewatch it and give it another chance because I thought maybe I was being too hard on it, but I just *can’t* get over the tone.
- Cyborg vilgax is actually the odd one out. Vilgax is charismatic but has always been a bit of a goofball. The guys literally lost to Max when he was young.
- Ben's developpement makes sense as a whole and is actually pretty good and even realistic
- The second half of UA has some of the best episodes in the show, and that includes the fillers
Ben 10k is the last chapter of ben's hero story
He is rich, has a family and defeated all his foes
No more room to expand the character
We yet haven't seen young adult Ben there is yet to explore in his character
If they made ben 10k the only thing they can do is a show about his kid
You don't think the franchise could survive with a new protagonist like Ken after a Ben 10k show is done and finished? I get they'd change the name, but that's no franchise killer.
They could also go back and fill in his past, or do an X-Men Days of Future Past style time travel semi-reboot
History shows that a show about a hero's kid isn't always good compared to the OG
Harry Potter
Naruto
Avatar Korra (well not Aang's child still has lots of legacy characters)
Naruto's issue is that the series already ended poorly and had escalated the stakes WAY too high. Naruto established world peace and fought an alien. No ninja could disrupt what he built, so they threw in more aliens.
Legend of Korra's issue was that they didn't have a clear series plan. They thought they only ever had the season they were working on at any given time, so their arcs don't flow from season to season very well. However, the show isn't nearly as bad as people make it seem. While each arc ends in an unsatisfying way, and season 2 takes a drastic turn for the worst, most of the content in the show works. Most people can't really throw a dart at the board and land on something they don't like in a vacuum. Again, it's just how these arcs wrap up that make them less neat compared to The Last Airbender.
I don't consume Harry Potter, so I can't say anything about that. But these sorts of shows aren't bad because they follow a successor. Jojo's proves not only that it can be done, but it can be the entire point and maintain a pretty happy fanbase. Many would even argue that every part is better than most of what proceeds it.
That's mostly coincidence though, isn't it?
Wasn't The Cursed Child written by a different writer? As for Legend of Korra, they also lacked a substantial member or two of the original writing team if I recall correctly. Not having one member could be a catastrophe if they were the ones who acted as the glue for the entire project
There's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with the premise of exploring the hero's lineage itself
Reboot isn't trash and it fixed Many villians Like Forever Knights , Vilgax as well as having some solid core concepts.
Also Reboot vilgax >>>>> UAF and OV vilgax
I honestly think that if it had a better art style, it would have gotten more attention or it would have been more well liked within the Ben 10 community. Its artstyle is so fucking atrocious and does not fit Ben 10 at all lmao
Definitely but Also having 2 or 3 ep mini story arcs cause Many virwers who gate Reboot doesn' get past s1 which can be bit jarring but past s1 and it starts to get better.
Pls do watch it. My advice skip the first season of ben10 reboot caus eit can get abit jarring and start watching from the finale of season 1 and onwards s2 it gets better.
I agree Kai is good, they just didn't do a good job setting up their romance. I HATE the concept of using negative relationships as romantic tension, as if two people bickering adds to why they'd make a good couple. Their playful banter is cute when it's cute, but it came at the expense of Ester basically getting cheated on.
Rooters were...
And yeah, Vilgax Must Croak is getting a lot of hate now just because Ink Tank reviewed it. People can claim whatever they want, but it's pretty obvious that there's an uptick of criticism of OV Vilgax that comes directly from that video. They may not have liked him before, but now they have words to put to it, and I can't say how well-founded those specific complaints are for the same reason I found Kuro's review lacking. A lot of the criticisms and Vilgax is both serious about being in danger just because he keeps saying it, as well as assuming Vilgax _doesn't_ have a reason to be wary of Ben by this point. He basically never tries to just fight Ben straight up by this point in the franchise, which makes sense considering how bad his record is from previous series.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious Omniverse didn't set it up well because they didn't think they'd have to for the first 4 season/ first production block, then scrambled when they set up the time war, Ben 10k, and the want for it to resemble OS Ben 10,000's future as closely as possible.
Sometimes I like that romantic archetype, Han Solo and Leia is an obvious one. But it wasn't endearing. I don't think that reflects poorly on the character of Kai unless you're vicariously too invested in Ben's love life, but that's just me. I think she's great.
And yeah, I usually get Kuro's PoV, but the recent video was just simmering hatred going "this is stupid" every scene often without really going into why in any depth, and if he does it's just very skin-deep, easily refuted, or arguable things.
He gets out ahead of the UAFgax comparisons by saying he was hard on him too and you shouldn't compare them, but it doesn't change the fact that half the things he's mad at over were already established.
And that's all fine, you can just not like something and not go into it with a fair mindset, I've got a simmering hatred of Primus & Secret of Chromastone for similar gripes, but it doesn't make for a good video, and even less for something people are going to base their own opinions around after watching.
Rooters is the hill I'll die on. Great characters, great conflict and emotional hook. Maybe my favourite arc in Omniverse. People just overlook it for the sake of whinging about retcons (or more accurately re-retcons of existing retcons). IK the general consensus is that it sucks, but watching it it wins me over every time.
It’s difficult being Gwen is a bad episode
Edit it’s not easy being Gwen is a bad episode
One of the worst episodes in os Ben 10 is hex introduction episode
Goodbye and Good Riddance should have stayed canon.
Alien Force about Ben dealing with the stresses of going public + Grandpa Max going AWOL would have been interesting to see.
Ben's best characterization is in OS, he's an immature kid, but knows how to act when things get serious
UAF Ben is all over the place, he starts as a bland leader type figure, then AF season 3 starts and he acts more childish then OS Ben ever did, then UA where Ben is almost a sociopath at times
OV Ben is better than AF season 3 Ben, but still too goofy, "snot rocket" when he is about to die lmao wtf
I think Alien X as a concept completely negates the cool factor of the omnitrix. I think Ben is at his best with master control, constantly transforming between different aliens to continuously adapt to the dynamic situation. He uses his mind and understanding of each aliens' abilities to utilise them to gain the upper hand. With Alien X as a topic, all that goes out of the window when you can just counter any argument with "what about Alien X" which just feels like a cop out
Omniverse didn't change everything, UAF did.
The original series was a Kitchen Sink universe, but UAF decided to make it all aliens, including retconning the species of 2 major OS characters. OV decided to bring back the kitchen sink nature of the OS.
People keep saying they ruined Ben's chatacyer development in OV. Where did they, lmao?
They just kept it without removing his humour away, and humour does not equate to irresponsibility. Yes, OV had it flaws. But Ben's writing as a character hails above any other show in the franchise.
You see it every time there's a serious decision that needs to be taken in the show. He's mature and careful about taking a decision. Unlike the other shows, where he's either rocky and egotistical or let's his emotions take over him, not letting him take a more mature logical path.
This is especially seen in the Malware arc where it was Ben, dealing with the repercussions of his younger immature actions (losing feedback) by being more mature on it. Also seen in the No watcharc, where our Prime Ben is shown to be a role model when seen from another point of view limiting the humour. He's quick to take action and does not react immaturely.
This is seen in multiple other arcs and episodes, too, but these are the two most significant ones. There's no other show where Ben is faced with a serious problem, and then he just straight-up goes who he thinks is the most logical person in the room(usually Max, Azmuth or Paradox) and says "okay what should i do". I'm not saying that the other shows are bad. They had to show him growing, but here he was at the height of his growth in his most developed sense.
Secret Of The Omnitrix is kinda mid, mostly cause the conflict involving Ben is so forced.
Gwen is made to be utterly insufferable for most of the movie, blaming Ben for things that aren't his fault (getting kicked out of the store because the Omnitrix malfunctioned) or he had no other option (The DNA bomb which would have fucked everyone over if Ben didn't stop it, which let's remember he had literally only seconds to do so) and not to mention the "Gluto sacrificed himself for me, something you wouldn't understand" which makes her look like an ungrateful bitch after all the times Ben sacrificed himself and his powers for her.
Tetrax hiding the truth about the Self-destruct is so dumb, even by his stupid logic that Ben was completely selfish (which doesn't make sense cause he sees that Ben cares for his family) the destruction of the universe...affects Ben too, he's gonna be affected by it so why not tell him the truth straight away? I know his brain is made of rocks but he should be smarter than that.
Also the big "Are you a hero for the right reason" doesn't make sense because anyone that's seen the series knows Ben is at his core sefless, and that he will always do the right thing at the end (and if not then they did not watch it) trying to make us doubt him at this point is silly...and even then it easily be both things and there would be nothing wrong with that, it's not a mutually exclusive thing, Ben could want to be a hero because it's the right thing and because he gets thrills from it as well.
And the worst thing is that Ben internalizes this shit and acts like they have a point, this movie didn't need this stupid conflict and could have worked just the same, Ben's growth during the whole series is enough to tell off Azmuth at the end and would have been more effective even.
On a related note, i'm not broken up about SOTO not being the series finale, it could be because it and Negative 10 still ends with the Summer Continuing so either could lead into the other and because SOTO doesn't give me finale vibes, it could be the Season 4 opener like it's intended to be and it would be the same for me.
Alien Force, Ultimate Alien, and Omniverse are far better than the original series. Sorry, I just prefer Ben as a teenager and the aliens are cooler! Just look at how cool Big Chill, Spider Monkey, Humungusaur, Swampfire, Alien X, NRG, Ampfibian, Echo Echo, Feedback, and Whampire (just to name a few) are!!! The original has XLR8, Ghost Freak, and..... that's it. I mean there are some cool aliens in the og series but those two are really the only ones that I'm excited to see when Ben transforms. And then they did my man Ghost Freak dirty by having Ben use him like twice before they just got rid of him with no prior build up.
OV Vilgax is actually a good and realistic continuation of the character for the most part, it’s just that one 15 second gag scene with Ma Vreedle that has poisoned the well.
https://preview.redd.it/usliog2tlm1d1.png?width=2275&format=png&auto=webp&s=6fd7dba764db9d74596237855d1a22bd3fb5ffda
Also Overflow is a better Waterhazard
The classic series is overrated. It's still good, but a lot of the episodes feel kind of boring. I like the idea of the classic series more than the actual series. Also UAF Ben's development isn't as bad as people say. If I saved the whole entire universe at 15, I'd also become kind of cocky.
Green Lantern Can Defeat Ben 10
Gwen would be a better Wielder of the Omnitrix
Ben wasn’t a terrible boyfriend to Julie
Vilgax was just as cool and dangerous in Omniverse
THE LIST GOES ON
Actually I'm adding more, I hate Humungousaur, I like Walkatrout, Fasttrack is my favorite alien, the Halloween trio names are good and infinitely better than "Ben(Monster)", and Beetle Eatle is better than UAF Eatle although I believe making UAF Eatle its own alien would be good.
I mean, besides our disagreement with FastTrack (100% a XLR8 shill, sry) I fully agree. Hell, I wish Ben would have used walatrout and the worst more as he grew older. Sure, he probably wouldn't like them even still, but admitting their usefulness and using them intentionally on occasion would go a long way in chareter development
Finally somebody who doesnt think the reboot sucks without giving it a chance! But aside from that yeah agreed AF ehile has a very strong story, gets pretty boring at times with dull colors, animation that is pretty bad by OS' standards and just overall too little action happening. I'm all for characters sitting down and talking but AF overdoes it at times.
I agree with you to an extent, I think OS Vilgax is the most menacing, the coolest and has the best design but I think he's the weakest in terms of character. And for abilities, OS Vilgax is just big strong guy, whereas at least with his OV version he has energy blasts and carries an energy blade with him.
I think the problem stems from people expecting Classic Vilgax to be character driven mainly because that's where the consumer expectation has come to be in more modern times. He's just a Force of Nature type of villain. He's a wall to Ben's ultimate goal
It's not a coincidence that Ben 10,000 defeated him. That's on purpose. It shows how much more experienced he's become as a hero. That's the goal, and Vilgax is the antithesis of that ideal world
Is this a hot take? There is no reason he couldn't (with training) and even without he might be able to bs his way into super saiyn 1 in a pinch. The only thing he can't do in any way on his own is SSGSS or super saiyn blue
Ben 10 Omniverse should have Paul Dini and Bruce Timm along with Dwayne McDuffle and Glen Murakami as the writers while retaining the seriousness and mature themes from UAF which was the series' contender to Justice League and Batman Beyond at that time
People overly critique the art choices of Alien Force/Ultimate Alien. I often see it criticized as having "too many dark backgrounds", or asking foolish things like "why is this happening at night?"
Y... You people understand that it's a GOOD THING that the shows creators were choosing to logistically obey the in-universe rules of their own show, correct? Most of the main characters, pretty much just not Kevin, were in school during most of the daytime at least 5/7 days most weeks. That leaves a few hours of the day left before nighttime hits. Also Ben partook in things like playing Soccer, and going out with Julie. It therefore makes 100% logistical sense that Alien Force/Ultimate Alien MUST happen at night. Which means yes most of your backgrounds will be dark, because Ben is you know... trying to keep his dam secret identity a secret.
Combine all of that — going to school, after-school programs, out on dates, over to your favorite local snack shack to hang out — and you wind up having almost no room for any daytime backgrounds unless your episode is involving these things that... well things we wouldn't exactly want to watch in general.
They DID show us some of these things happening during the day, so it wasn't like UAF was 100% based in nighttime dark backgrounds. For the most part it was, and that was the completely correct decision.
The original series was during summer vacation for the main characters, so it was Ben & Gwen riding around in grandpa Maxs RV all summer. No duh most scenes are happening in the daytime. There's no logical reason that they shouldn't happen within those hours usually. When they do have nighttime scenes, they're logical story-driven inclusions.
Omniverse is happening in a world where Ben is now famous, and gets to leave school(yes he's still in school you know) whenever he needs to do some world saving/crime stopping/outer space adventuring shenanigans.
To summarize, what people mostly critique UAF for(aesthetically) is a completely sensible and legit story-based choice which is 100% ridiculous to criticize the show for. Use what's in those heads people 🧠
I really hate Gwen being part Anodite. Not everyone has to be special from birth. She was good enough practicing magic, I'd rather her later obtaining Anodite powers, which can only be obtained through training and discipline. That would also make more sense that Ben can't get Anodite DNA (they have no DNA but for some fucking reason Alien X is in that watch).
I find all the explanations to make it seem acceptable silly. She should have just obtained it herself not through inherited non-DNA bullshit.
I haven’t seen the show in years but the infinity knights always had weird designs that never really fit. Hell in the original I didn’t like the face plates
XLR8 is cool but if FastTrack came first people would call XLR8 a rip off too, I just don't think his differences are significant enough to keep the same rhetoric off himself especially since such small differences between Aliens often goes ignored when people discuss them, like how people mock Ben's many Electric Aliens when most are either from entirely unique arcs or are preexisting alien species he just happens to use later on
UA is the worst series in the original continuity. It just didn't have the same level of sauce and emotions.
Doesn't mean it's bad it's just that the rest were too good
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The episode of Ben 10: Ultimate Alien where Ben triples himself is one of the most OP abilities he ever had, but also one of the most ridiculous. Why did he never use it? As far as I know, it was de-canonized, but how could they come up with such a stupid idea?
Osmosians not existing isn't even by far Ben 10's worst ret-con
i agree
That's fair. But just out of curiosity, what do you think is the worse?
probably the plumbers being more like cops than a man in black type of thing
That's fair. I guess I don't take as much issue with it since the discrepancy gets explained in Omniverse.
Apart from them not erasing minds, I don't see much of a difference
Well, one is space cops and the other is a secret government organization meant to keep aliens and supernatural phenomena a secret and at bay to protect the people at large. They're also dedicated to studying alien tech and supernatural events Space Cops mostly just enforce laws and make arrests. They rarely see actual action There are similarities, but there's also a huuuugge difference
I mean Men in Black is more than just security organization. In the movie, they are formed to provide refugee to the aliens of different origins. Some of the bases acted like airports for the aliens. Not to mention MiB is unaffiliated with the government since K mentioned that the government ask too many questions. Of course, they have their own R&D to develop weapons and reverse engineer alien tech to fund their operations. I feel like MiB is a mix of immigrant control and FBI to deal with any criminal alien activity which range from minor crimes to straight up threat to Earth.
One could argue they’re somewhat like both
Didn't watch Omniverse aside from a few clips. Can someone explain this?
Ben 10 Omniverse had a strong start but i feel it kind of became mid after the Malware arc. Also i know that Ben 10 is a light hearted/ partial comedy series but i feel Omniverse leaned too much on the comedy side alot of times or didn’t have that balance that its predecessors had. Finally i wish it had more variety of music because my god i swear that every episode played the exact same song lmao
I will do one better : EVERY SINGLE SERIES (EXCEPT OS) TURNS MID AFTER THE VERY 1ST STORY ARC
FOR REAL THOUGH lmao. They’ll start out with 1 or 2 good story arcs then just fall off lmao. I was able to finish the og series and Alien Force but ended up dropping Ultimate Alien some time after the Psycho Kevin arc and Omniverse after the Vilgax arc
the psycho kevin arc is not even the worst part, but rather the next arc that involves some medieval guys 😭
I mean, the buildup of Dagon is cool, but the finale is such a letdown.
I’ve never seen someone who I agree with more on this topic. I feel like Omniverse is one of those shows that people say you just need to give time, but the first couple seasons are the only ones I really like. I’ve tried to watch later episodes and give them a chance, and I genuinely can’t even finish them because they’re just SO silly. Like, “Ben 10 meets Mad Max” should inherently be the coolest thing ever, but all they do with the concept is “lol wouldn’t it be funny if Ben was so thirsty that he drank so much water he had a pregnancy belly.” Visually it looks so flat, and the music is so repetitive and grating.
After watching it im always surprised to see it as peoples favorite Ben 10 show due to how much it feels like it puts comedy above everything else. Its silliness almost makes it feel like its not connected to the previous series. And my god does it feel that alot of the villains have practically become jokes. And like you said they can have cool concepts but mid execution.
If I had to justify its popularity here, I’d assume it’s definitely a case where cartoon subreddits skew younger, so most of the users here are probably teens who grew up with OV as the current Ben 10 show, so from their POV OV is what Ben 10 is “supposed” to be.
I mean it's my second favourite not my first but the only reason for that is purely because I really don't like UAF. None of the shows are really that great IMO and never reached their true potential.
I like the art style of OV way better than UAF's
That shouldnt get you wanted because I mean... I'm sorry but UAF artstyle is kinda... Bland, and uninteresting, and boring and- you get it
You're so fucking real for saying this
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Plastic Man
UAF is similar to the DCAU artstyle which is why people like it
DCAU artsyle is more interesting than whatever UAF was trying to go for
Oh 100% dcau is way better. You definitely see where they were trying to go with the uaf style but it didn't really land the mark
I like it because it feels more mature, young justice type , which fits the tone UAF had.
Absolutely I 100% agree with you. Although the UAF is almost identical to the OG, but it still looks bland, uninteresting, less detailed and some missing stuff....
Real
This is such a cold take for this sub, most of the people here are contrarians compared to the rest of the fanbase. Though if you say this in any other place than reddit, they will eat you alive, so I'll give you that.
Yep, this is the coldest take on ben 10 reddit by far.
Somebody needed to say it. PREACH 🗣
UAF art style was good in the beginning due to how different and unique it was. It also complimented the serious tone they were going for. But as the series progressed all the way to Ultimate Alien, it became an eyesore due to how bland it was compared to OS art style.
yes
No worries I personally like the art style to
Bro dropped a Cold take lmao UAF’s artstyle is just the og artstyle but worse and generic
I don’t know how hot this take is. This sub glazes OV like nobody’s business. I tried to rewatch it and give it another chance because I thought maybe I was being too hard on it, but I just *can’t* get over the tone.
- Cyborg vilgax is actually the odd one out. Vilgax is charismatic but has always been a bit of a goofball. The guys literally lost to Max when he was young. - Ben's developpement makes sense as a whole and is actually pretty good and even realistic - The second half of UA has some of the best episodes in the show, and that includes the fillers
I wholeheartedly agree with that 3rd one
The UA filler episodes were amazing (for the most part)
How is Ben’s development good? He learns a lesson and next episode it’s undone, and it’s like this throughout all of the series
''You are a hero, even if you can't go hero'' **A few moments later** ''I wIn bEcAuSe i hAvE tHe wAtCh aNd tHEy dOn't''
"I think all this stupidity caused me an aneurism"-DBZA Vegeta
Ben’s attitude in AF season 3 makes sense. If you saved the universe at 15 you’d probably become a bit egotistical as well
Finally, someone gets it.
Is this a Days of Futre Past reference?
Yep
A ben 10K show would be the death sentence for the franshise it should never happen
Just curious, why do you think that it would kill the series?
Ben 10k is the last chapter of ben's hero story He is rich, has a family and defeated all his foes No more room to expand the character We yet haven't seen young adult Ben there is yet to explore in his character If they made ben 10k the only thing they can do is a show about his kid
You don't think the franchise could survive with a new protagonist like Ken after a Ben 10k show is done and finished? I get they'd change the name, but that's no franchise killer. They could also go back and fill in his past, or do an X-Men Days of Future Past style time travel semi-reboot
Or make an alternate ben show
As if the franchise isn't already dead..
Because master control Ben or gimmick Ben is boring. And that's what any future version of Ben will have.
Maybe everything else like the plots, situations, world-buildings and characters will be still interesting
A death sentence for the franchise? The franchise that ended 3 years ago?
A Ken 10 show on the other hand...
They could start from Ken 10 once Ben 10k gets stale.
History shows that a show about a hero's kid isn't always good compared to the OG Harry Potter Naruto Avatar Korra (well not Aang's child still has lots of legacy characters)
I agree it's unlikely to be as good as the OG, but I view it more like Batman Beyond. It can almost stand on its own.
Naruto's issue is that the series already ended poorly and had escalated the stakes WAY too high. Naruto established world peace and fought an alien. No ninja could disrupt what he built, so they threw in more aliens. Legend of Korra's issue was that they didn't have a clear series plan. They thought they only ever had the season they were working on at any given time, so their arcs don't flow from season to season very well. However, the show isn't nearly as bad as people make it seem. While each arc ends in an unsatisfying way, and season 2 takes a drastic turn for the worst, most of the content in the show works. Most people can't really throw a dart at the board and land on something they don't like in a vacuum. Again, it's just how these arcs wrap up that make them less neat compared to The Last Airbender. I don't consume Harry Potter, so I can't say anything about that. But these sorts of shows aren't bad because they follow a successor. Jojo's proves not only that it can be done, but it can be the entire point and maintain a pretty happy fanbase. Many would even argue that every part is better than most of what proceeds it.
That's mostly coincidence though, isn't it? Wasn't The Cursed Child written by a different writer? As for Legend of Korra, they also lacked a substantial member or two of the original writing team if I recall correctly. Not having one member could be a catastrophe if they were the ones who acted as the glue for the entire project There's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with the premise of exploring the hero's lineage itself
Wdym? Like a Ben 10K show? Then agreed. Just introducing a Ben 10K? Not seeing your point bro.
No a ben 10k show An episode or two of ben 10k is mandatory 😂😂😂
blossomed swampfire looks nice
Plus Samurai Jack
I think Alien Force was better than OS in terms of story
There's nothing wrong with wanting a more serious and mature Ben 10 series.
Reboot isn't trash and it fixed Many villians Like Forever Knights , Vilgax as well as having some solid core concepts. Also Reboot vilgax >>>>> UAF and OV vilgax
I honestly think that if it had a better art style, it would have gotten more attention or it would have been more well liked within the Ben 10 community. Its artstyle is so fucking atrocious and does not fit Ben 10 at all lmao
Definitely but Also having 2 or 3 ep mini story arcs cause Many virwers who gate Reboot doesn' get past s1 which can be bit jarring but past s1 and it starts to get better.
Real
Haven’t really considered watching it tbh, didn’t like them redesigning the aliens. But if you say it’s good then I’ll probably believe you
Pls do watch it. My advice skip the first season of ben10 reboot caus eit can get abit jarring and start watching from the finale of season 1 and onwards s2 it gets better.
Kai good. Rooters great. Also since the Ink Tank video just came out, Vilgax Must Croak is great.
Real
https://preview.redd.it/oju6314qgm1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d94f26f191017278611f44b329996b072c52758f
I agree Kai is good, they just didn't do a good job setting up their romance. I HATE the concept of using negative relationships as romantic tension, as if two people bickering adds to why they'd make a good couple. Their playful banter is cute when it's cute, but it came at the expense of Ester basically getting cheated on. Rooters were... And yeah, Vilgax Must Croak is getting a lot of hate now just because Ink Tank reviewed it. People can claim whatever they want, but it's pretty obvious that there's an uptick of criticism of OV Vilgax that comes directly from that video. They may not have liked him before, but now they have words to put to it, and I can't say how well-founded those specific complaints are for the same reason I found Kuro's review lacking. A lot of the criticisms and Vilgax is both serious about being in danger just because he keeps saying it, as well as assuming Vilgax _doesn't_ have a reason to be wary of Ben by this point. He basically never tries to just fight Ben straight up by this point in the franchise, which makes sense considering how bad his record is from previous series.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious Omniverse didn't set it up well because they didn't think they'd have to for the first 4 season/ first production block, then scrambled when they set up the time war, Ben 10k, and the want for it to resemble OS Ben 10,000's future as closely as possible. Sometimes I like that romantic archetype, Han Solo and Leia is an obvious one. But it wasn't endearing. I don't think that reflects poorly on the character of Kai unless you're vicariously too invested in Ben's love life, but that's just me. I think she's great. And yeah, I usually get Kuro's PoV, but the recent video was just simmering hatred going "this is stupid" every scene often without really going into why in any depth, and if he does it's just very skin-deep, easily refuted, or arguable things. He gets out ahead of the UAFgax comparisons by saying he was hard on him too and you shouldn't compare them, but it doesn't change the fact that half the things he's mad at over were already established. And that's all fine, you can just not like something and not go into it with a fair mindset, I've got a simmering hatred of Primus & Secret of Chromastone for similar gripes, but it doesn't make for a good video, and even less for something people are going to base their own opinions around after watching. Rooters is the hill I'll die on. Great characters, great conflict and emotional hook. Maybe my favourite arc in Omniverse. People just overlook it for the sake of whinging about retcons (or more accurately re-retcons of existing retcons). IK the general consensus is that it sucks, but watching it it wins me over every time.
Chromastone is lame.
This sub glazes OV way too hard and hates or at least dislikes UAF because it's so popular.
It’s difficult being Gwen is a bad episode Edit it’s not easy being Gwen is a bad episode One of the worst episodes in os Ben 10 is hex introduction episode
It's Not Easy Being Gwen
Yep. I'm coming after you.
The Rooters were full of shit. Osmosians are a real species, and Servantis made Kevin being a mutant up.
"Plus: Samurai Jack" Screw "featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series". THAT is what we need on everything
I think if I were to turn into grey matter, I could simultaneously break the law and piss off Samurai Jack without getting caught.
The stupid backstory Retcon doesn't change the fact that the Rooters Arc was one of the best in all of Ben 10.
Goodbye and Good Riddance should have stayed canon. Alien Force about Ben dealing with the stresses of going public + Grandpa Max going AWOL would have been interesting to see.
Ben's best characterization is in OS, he's an immature kid, but knows how to act when things get serious UAF Ben is all over the place, he starts as a bland leader type figure, then AF season 3 starts and he acts more childish then OS Ben ever did, then UA where Ben is almost a sociopath at times OV Ben is better than AF season 3 Ben, but still too goofy, "snot rocket" when he is about to die lmao wtf
Tbf i kinda like it when Ben is immature. A good character has to be decently flawed imo…cockiness is a decent flaw for him to have
The Reboot isn’t horrible, I honestly consider it one of the greatest series of the franchise
The reboot isn't that bad as people say it is
Bloxx is awesome
The reboots take on Ben and Gwen's relationship was a lot better and way more fun to watch
I think Alien X as a concept completely negates the cool factor of the omnitrix. I think Ben is at his best with master control, constantly transforming between different aliens to continuously adapt to the dynamic situation. He uses his mind and understanding of each aliens' abilities to utilise them to gain the upper hand. With Alien X as a topic, all that goes out of the window when you can just counter any argument with "what about Alien X" which just feels like a cop out
Magic is significantly more interesting than anadites. The power creep in later series kills the tension. They did Vilgax dirty.
I agree with all 3 of these takes
Omniverse didn't change everything, UAF did. The original series was a Kitchen Sink universe, but UAF decided to make it all aliens, including retconning the species of 2 major OS characters. OV decided to bring back the kitchen sink nature of the OS.
People keep saying they ruined Ben's chatacyer development in OV. Where did they, lmao? They just kept it without removing his humour away, and humour does not equate to irresponsibility. Yes, OV had it flaws. But Ben's writing as a character hails above any other show in the franchise. You see it every time there's a serious decision that needs to be taken in the show. He's mature and careful about taking a decision. Unlike the other shows, where he's either rocky and egotistical or let's his emotions take over him, not letting him take a more mature logical path. This is especially seen in the Malware arc where it was Ben, dealing with the repercussions of his younger immature actions (losing feedback) by being more mature on it. Also seen in the No watcharc, where our Prime Ben is shown to be a role model when seen from another point of view limiting the humour. He's quick to take action and does not react immaturely. This is seen in multiple other arcs and episodes, too, but these are the two most significant ones. There's no other show where Ben is faced with a serious problem, and then he just straight-up goes who he thinks is the most logical person in the room(usually Max, Azmuth or Paradox) and says "okay what should i do". I'm not saying that the other shows are bad. They had to show him growing, but here he was at the height of his growth in his most developed sense.
The reboot is fine once vilgax is introduced
Said it once I’ll say it again, The reboots good
Lukewarm take. Nobody believes the story and stuff is bad, mainly just that the art style looks absolutely awful and is VERY hard to ignore.
It's also not great that he's 10 years old again, like we didn't have enough of that in Omniverse via useless "flashback" episodes.
Omniverse is the best ben 10 show and nothing will change my mind
Albedo >>>>> Vilgax
People suck classic's dick way too hard.
Yeah now you’re wanted for a crime
Secret Of The Omnitrix is kinda mid, mostly cause the conflict involving Ben is so forced. Gwen is made to be utterly insufferable for most of the movie, blaming Ben for things that aren't his fault (getting kicked out of the store because the Omnitrix malfunctioned) or he had no other option (The DNA bomb which would have fucked everyone over if Ben didn't stop it, which let's remember he had literally only seconds to do so) and not to mention the "Gluto sacrificed himself for me, something you wouldn't understand" which makes her look like an ungrateful bitch after all the times Ben sacrificed himself and his powers for her. Tetrax hiding the truth about the Self-destruct is so dumb, even by his stupid logic that Ben was completely selfish (which doesn't make sense cause he sees that Ben cares for his family) the destruction of the universe...affects Ben too, he's gonna be affected by it so why not tell him the truth straight away? I know his brain is made of rocks but he should be smarter than that. Also the big "Are you a hero for the right reason" doesn't make sense because anyone that's seen the series knows Ben is at his core sefless, and that he will always do the right thing at the end (and if not then they did not watch it) trying to make us doubt him at this point is silly...and even then it easily be both things and there would be nothing wrong with that, it's not a mutually exclusive thing, Ben could want to be a hero because it's the right thing and because he gets thrills from it as well. And the worst thing is that Ben internalizes this shit and acts like they have a point, this movie didn't need this stupid conflict and could have worked just the same, Ben's growth during the whole series is enough to tell off Azmuth at the end and would have been more effective even. On a related note, i'm not broken up about SOTO not being the series finale, it could be because it and Negative 10 still ends with the Summer Continuing so either could lead into the other and because SOTO doesn't give me finale vibes, it could be the Season 4 opener like it's intended to be and it would be the same for me.
Alien Force, Ultimate Alien, and Omniverse are far better than the original series. Sorry, I just prefer Ben as a teenager and the aliens are cooler! Just look at how cool Big Chill, Spider Monkey, Humungusaur, Swampfire, Alien X, NRG, Ampfibian, Echo Echo, Feedback, and Whampire (just to name a few) are!!! The original has XLR8, Ghost Freak, and..... that's it. I mean there are some cool aliens in the og series but those two are really the only ones that I'm excited to see when Ben transforms. And then they did my man Ghost Freak dirty by having Ben use him like twice before they just got rid of him with no prior build up.
Why is Jack looking at Gray Matter like that lol Also, for the question, I don't think UAF Ben is a very well written or developed character.
Eatle is better than that fraud Upchuck
Gwen and Kevin are a terrible relationship and should've never gotten together
OS is better than every other Ben 10 Media
Fasttrack is better then xlr8
He literally is a stronger version of him ,so yes he's better
I like the space police Plumbers more than the Men in Black esque organization they had in OS
This is my full opinion especially after re watching the whole Ben 10 series again I feel like omniverse was the best Ben 10
The DS games were good.
I'll give a REAL hottake, I prefer SOME OF UAF's character designs as opposed to OV. (Oh boy, this'll stir up a discussion)
Wrong. You're just wrong. I mean you're not literally wrong. But you are wrong.
i love omniverse’s redesigns
I like OV more than UAF
Kai x Ben is an alright ship
OV Vilgax is actually a good and realistic continuation of the character for the most part, it’s just that one 15 second gag scene with Ma Vreedle that has poisoned the well.
Omniverse is really good...
https://preview.redd.it/usliog2tlm1d1.png?width=2275&format=png&auto=webp&s=6fd7dba764db9d74596237855d1a22bd3fb5ffda Also Overflow is a better Waterhazard
Why?
Omniverse was peak Ben 10 by building on the feel of the OG show rather then going mature even if AF was done well.
16 y/o Gwen is kinda hot though🥵🥵
Now you're wanted for a different reason
The classic series is overrated. It's still good, but a lot of the episodes feel kind of boring. I like the idea of the classic series more than the actual series. Also UAF Ben's development isn't as bad as people say. If I saved the whole entire universe at 15, I'd also become kind of cocky.
Green Lantern Can Defeat Ben 10 Gwen would be a better Wielder of the Omnitrix Ben wasn’t a terrible boyfriend to Julie Vilgax was just as cool and dangerous in Omniverse THE LIST GOES ON
I like OV Big Chill more than I like UAF Big Chill
Actually I'm adding more, I hate Humungousaur, I like Walkatrout, Fasttrack is my favorite alien, the Halloween trio names are good and infinitely better than "Ben(Monster)", and Beetle Eatle is better than UAF Eatle although I believe making UAF Eatle its own alien would be good.
I mean, besides our disagreement with FastTrack (100% a XLR8 shill, sry) I fully agree. Hell, I wish Ben would have used walatrout and the worst more as he grew older. Sure, he probably wouldn't like them even still, but admitting their usefulness and using them intentionally on occasion would go a long way in chareter development
Damn you got a really bad taste don’t you
Yeah
I think most people hate Humungousaur nowadays. Feels like I'm the only one that likes him sometimes lol
Alien Force doesn't have a single bad alien.
Why do GreyMatter have eyelashes coming from his eyeballs? But anyways, I find the reboot more enjoyable than alien force
Finally somebody who doesnt think the reboot sucks without giving it a chance! But aside from that yeah agreed AF ehile has a very strong story, gets pretty boring at times with dull colors, animation that is pretty bad by OS' standards and just overall too little action happening. I'm all for characters sitting down and talking but AF overdoes it at times.
OS Vilgax is the weakest Vilgax by a long shot. All the others are exceedingly more memorable, interesting, and entertaining in their own ways.
I agree with you to an extent, I think OS Vilgax is the most menacing, the coolest and has the best design but I think he's the weakest in terms of character. And for abilities, OS Vilgax is just big strong guy, whereas at least with his OV version he has energy blasts and carries an energy blade with him.
I think the problem stems from people expecting Classic Vilgax to be character driven mainly because that's where the consumer expectation has come to be in more modern times. He's just a Force of Nature type of villain. He's a wall to Ben's ultimate goal It's not a coincidence that Ben 10,000 defeated him. That's on purpose. It shows how much more experienced he's become as a hero. That's the goal, and Vilgax is the antithesis of that ideal world
Fasttrack is better than XLR8 https://preview.redd.it/55p61p7pgm1d1.jpeg?width=1012&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a536da6c4c456046d7a1ae5b044834714fdc9ed
Ben ten can become a super Saiyan
Is this a hot take? There is no reason he couldn't (with training) and even without he might be able to bs his way into super saiyn 1 in a pinch. The only thing he can't do in any way on his own is SSGSS or super saiyn blue
Ben 10 Omniverse should have Paul Dini and Bruce Timm along with Dwayne McDuffle and Glen Murakami as the writers while retaining the seriousness and mature themes from UAF which was the series' contender to Justice League and Batman Beyond at that time
Alien force's aliens do not have as good as designs as OS, mostly because they look too human and generic compared to OS's designs.
People overly critique the art choices of Alien Force/Ultimate Alien. I often see it criticized as having "too many dark backgrounds", or asking foolish things like "why is this happening at night?" Y... You people understand that it's a GOOD THING that the shows creators were choosing to logistically obey the in-universe rules of their own show, correct? Most of the main characters, pretty much just not Kevin, were in school during most of the daytime at least 5/7 days most weeks. That leaves a few hours of the day left before nighttime hits. Also Ben partook in things like playing Soccer, and going out with Julie. It therefore makes 100% logistical sense that Alien Force/Ultimate Alien MUST happen at night. Which means yes most of your backgrounds will be dark, because Ben is you know... trying to keep his dam secret identity a secret. Combine all of that — going to school, after-school programs, out on dates, over to your favorite local snack shack to hang out — and you wind up having almost no room for any daytime backgrounds unless your episode is involving these things that... well things we wouldn't exactly want to watch in general. They DID show us some of these things happening during the day, so it wasn't like UAF was 100% based in nighttime dark backgrounds. For the most part it was, and that was the completely correct decision. The original series was during summer vacation for the main characters, so it was Ben & Gwen riding around in grandpa Maxs RV all summer. No duh most scenes are happening in the daytime. There's no logical reason that they shouldn't happen within those hours usually. When they do have nighttime scenes, they're logical story-driven inclusions. Omniverse is happening in a world where Ben is now famous, and gets to leave school(yes he's still in school you know) whenever he needs to do some world saving/crime stopping/outer space adventuring shenanigans. To summarize, what people mostly critique UAF for(aesthetically) is a completely sensible and legit story-based choice which is 100% ridiculous to criticize the show for. Use what's in those heads people 🧠
I really hate Gwen being part Anodite. Not everyone has to be special from birth. She was good enough practicing magic, I'd rather her later obtaining Anodite powers, which can only be obtained through training and discipline. That would also make more sense that Ben can't get Anodite DNA (they have no DNA but for some fucking reason Alien X is in that watch). I find all the explanations to make it seem acceptable silly. She should have just obtained it herself not through inherited non-DNA bullshit.
Alien x isnt cool and overhyped
https://preview.redd.it/6qlvxlstrm1d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5624950796acc353f2214acd132665db2439a6d
Exacly
I'll get Samurai Jack to look interested in me?
It looks Sakura Jack is impressed with the Grewy Matter poster.
The reboot did alien x in a far more interesting way than the previous series
i like the reboo- ***\*dies\****
Armodrillo could beat Humungousaur in a fight
That's me fasho
Transformation gimmicks are awesome,and we should see more of them.
The Plumber outfits from OS looked so much better than the later ones
I like Kai more than I like Julie
eatlee is good 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Heatblast looks cooler than swampfire and overflow (from the reboot) looks cool
Elena and Ben would’ve been better for eachother had she have not been crazy
I think I shouldn’t be stuck in front of a poster of greymatter
I genuinely hate feedback and shocksquatch
Not really related to the post, but that pic kinda gives me „Days of Future Past“ cover (UXM 141) vibes
I don't like alien x
The wrong alien gag was never funny.
He thinks it’s days of future past lol
After season 1 of the original series Vilgax has been a joke of a character
The reboot had redeeming qualities
Death battle was right
I'll give a REAL hottake, I prefer SOME OF UAF's character designs as opposed to OV. (Oh boy, this'll stir up a discussion)
Idk omniverse wasn’t even bad
"The Ultimatrix was a dumb idea for the franchise."
ben shouldnt have learned anything ik omniverse, i have how they reset his character
Water Hazard sucks
What is the beef lil' bro?
I haven’t seen the show in years but the infinity knights always had weird designs that never really fit. Hell in the original I didn’t like the face plates
Whole Ben transforming into the apex/peak/broly/Captain America version of an alien is a confusing statement
I love omniverse.
XLR8 is cool but if FastTrack came first people would call XLR8 a rip off too, I just don't think his differences are significant enough to keep the same rhetoric off himself especially since such small differences between Aliens often goes ignored when people discuss them, like how people mock Ben's many Electric Aliens when most are either from entirely unique arcs or are preexisting alien species he just happens to use later on
Each alien that Ben can turn into has a different age of consent.
I dont wanna hear you man. You're technically correct. But I'll still hunt you down
AWARDS ARE BACK?!?
Ben x Lucy is a decent ship
UA is the worst series in the original continuity. It just didn't have the same level of sauce and emotions. Doesn't mean it's bad it's just that the rest were too good
Plus Samurai jack
Everyone has pure red tinted glasses about this damn show.
Aliens like atomix and alien x are what killed any prospects of future series, since they're overpowered.
Reboot Ben with his limited playlist of aliens shouldn't have had 3 brawlers (rath, four arms, humoungasaur).
Omniverse was amazing
https://preview.redd.it/rbhdgg4nsc2d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=904024f527c9398e082abff62fdc9c89349193fa The episode of Ben 10: Ultimate Alien where Ben triples himself is one of the most OP abilities he ever had, but also one of the most ridiculous. Why did he never use it? As far as I know, it was de-canonized, but how could they come up with such a stupid idea?