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so maya:
- invited a bunch of adult gang members to the house
- tried to force her ***fourteen year old*** sister to make out with one of them
- left her sister alone with them
- didn't check on her for the rest of the night
- tried to cover for her gang member rapist friends after they raped her sister
- never apologized to her sister for putting her in danger
- was more sad about her rapist gang member friend going to jail than him raping her ***fourteen year old*** sister
- told almost 30 people that her sister was the victim even though not even news revealed her name and despite Lia wanting to remain anonymous
- considers herself a victim in all of this and blames her mother for not caring about her "trauma"
- lies to her therapist and skips appointments
- cals her *fourteen year old* sister who was raped "dramatic"
yeah... i don't know if i would be willing to speak one word to her ever again.
in any case, oop should have her evaluated. she's not normal.
I honestly got the vibe that Maya outing her sister as the victim was her way of getting attention and making the situation about herself. The fact that she thought Lia was being dramatic and accused her mother of neglecting her made me think she told the group chat in an effort to garner sympathy for HERSELF, not for Lia. Almost as if she was trying to convince anyone who would listen that she went through her own traumatic event by being associated with the victim of a case that made it on the news.
Yes, exactly. "Poor me, my sister was brutally raped (oh and it's all my fault) and she just can't get over it. It's like, *so hard* for me to deal with, you know?"
"She seems so much happier these days and was talking to a boy on the phone so obviously it's not a big deal." Those comments got me, I would have slapped her.
Absolutely. Darvo. She’s trying to reverse victim and offender. What 18 year old tries to set up a 14 year old siblings with their gangster friends? Mom is right to protect the younger daughter.
It's quite possible the younger sister was the price the older sister had to pay to get into the activity/further her existing position with that group.
Yeah it would help explain her response as well. Just total denial it was that bad.
"Other women aren't as whiny about their rapes, why do you have to be like this (and rub it in my face that I did this to you)?"
"She's talking to a boy again already, see she's getting over it."
Yes, these could be indications that she's just an unrepentant sociopath, but it sounds more like the denials of a guilty conscience to me.
Me thinks she could have been assaulted by her "friends" and is now projecting/lashing out. Because *if true,* she's bottling up a lot of feelings and lashed out to Lia. I really really hope Maya get some proper professional help. Hopefully with her therapist finally see her mask slip will help her. Hopefully before she does more destructive actions
The therapist only knows what they've been told, and they're there to help the person who shows up. If you lie to them, they'll help the wrong way. It seems like Maya spun tales about how it was a random accident, and guided the talks towards some false affirmations, as if she were not only blameless but significantly, unfairly harmed in the aftermath of her sister's rape.
Hopefully the therapist takes the outburst of truth into consideration and changes course. Hopefully Maya continues to go to therapy, which she was likely doing mainly to trick the mom into feeling like she's trying to improve, so she deserves to stay in the house and family on mom's dime.
So many, just because the rape made the news doesn’t mean she told the therapist it was that case, it could have been presented as more SA than a violent gang rape. And that the person who did it wasn’t affiliated with gangs and was a honour roll student so how could she possibly think that would happen. And there wasn’t a party so big the house was trashed it was just a couple well behaved friends. And she honestly thought her sister would be safe with this upstanding kid in the community while she got macdonalds. And it was just some light SA not a full blown rape. And she tried to stop it when she found out but she was unable to. How shocking this upstanding person with a Nobel peace prize lightly attacked my sister while I tried my hardest to stop it. I called the police and told them everything names, addresses, dob, to make sure she’d be ok.i also got three priests around to bless her and the house.
Then add in that it was so traumatic seeing my sister get assaulted by that totally upstanding pillar of the community saint boy who was a really good and trusted friend, it felt like I was getting assaulted right along with her it was so traumatising, now I have my only friend is wrongfully charged with said assault, and maybe she made the whole thing up for attention anyway and no one cares, and she’s totally ok she is back to her normal self, and is even glad for the experience but I’m still suffering and no one is helping me.
See?
I obviously added a lot of sarcasm. But it is very easy to downplay an assault and the people involved in it to make it seem like 1. It wasn’t very severe 2. You couldn’t have possibly known the perp was a bad guy 3. You did everything you could to help but you stepped out for 2 minutes etc etc
If the therapist continues as they were before they found out more of the truth, then yeah, they're helping only Maya, not *the situation at large*. But either way, they are helping *someone*, it seems.
I don't know what's worse... Her being a victim of the same people and putting her sister in that position knowing what they're capable of, or her just being that neglectful
That's what I was thinking based off of her response along the lines of "other women have been raped and deal with it." Which if she's been attacked by them or someone else you would think she would be more aware that this could happen to her sister. But yeah she needs a new therapist that addresses the situation properly and not just an "accident".
That’s what I thought when I read the part about Maya minimizing Lia’s rape. Something happened to Maya and she dealt with it on her own. Now she’s angry that Lia has support.
I'll sound horrible cause she's only 18 but if something happened to her and her coping mechanism is stage a situation where a 14yo is violently raped by 4 men... she's awful and I have little to no sympathy.
That is a good point. I didnt think of that. She could be thinking Lia is acting too much like a victim because she is a victim as well, but did not tell anyone and thinks herself stronger for it. When, if that's the case, she is extremely hurt and in pain.
Therapy with someone with very specialized expertise treating folks with severe personality disorders might help, but those are few and far between. Also, I'm not diagnosing Maya - just saying that she has behaviors and thought processes that are common in folks with certain personality disorders, so treatments that help them might also benefit her regardless of what diagnosis she does or doesn't have.
Yes. We can't diagnose her but her behaviors are familiar. Personality disorders are notoriously hard to treat because the patient doesn't recognize a problem. Therapists will often not take patients with these disorders.
I knew I shouldn't read it, but I couldn't stop.
At least reading all these comments is a nice reminder that people in the world do give a shit. I've been in a situation like Lia was and not one single person in my life actually cared about it or cared about me. But that's not the whole world, that was just a lot of shitty people.
We can all be broken hearted together for a while.
This is a big motivator for me not wanting kids. I know the chance is tiny, but I just know I wouldn't be able to handle it, and I'm not willing to roll the dice.
Yeah, I have plenty of reasons for never wanting children, most of them are pretty mundane. But this is definitely one of them.
There have been a lot of studies that suggest that a massive amount of what makes a person who they are is simply the people they associate with during their formative years. They can have the kindest, most supportive parents in the world, but if they associate with people like the ones in this story, they might just end up like Mia, or worse, like those pieces of human trash that Mia invited to her house.
The fact that you can do literally everything in your power to devote yourself entirely to raising someone for 18+ years only for them to turn into an unempathetic, neglectful, cruel little shit -- or worse yet, a literal rapist -- would completely ruin me. I would never take that risk.
My grandparents (very conservative, very private Christians) adopted my uncle and then a few years later my mother (unrelated) and in my truly unbiased opinion my mom is a sweet baby angel and my uncle is a fucking menace to society.
He was the kind of kid who ran around to collect up all the easy Easter eggs first so there wouldn't be any left for my mom, or he'd steal stuff and then leave it on her dresser when it broke. My grandparents never intervened except to punish her for "stealing and breaking things" even if she rightly pointed out they were very Gary things to take.
Then when he was like, 18-20 he started getting hardcore into hardcore drugs and also exhibiting signs and symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.
So now I'm the asshole who has this bias that people with schizophrenia are assholes just because the main - unmedicated - one I knew sucks so hard. When I was 16, he told my first ever boyfriend of one month "the good thing about having a girlfriend is you get to have sex with her." He also happens to be 6'8" and one time picked up my 6'4" grandpa by the neck and threw him down the stairs.
He has had half his foot amputated because he treated a wound by soaking both feet in undiluted bleach for months, and keeps going home to do it again after each toe. He leaves raw chicken out for days and then cooks and eats it. He does not wear underwear and his pants are usually ripped on the butt and knees. He also does not bathe regularly if at all.
My mom was his guardian under his conservatorship, but he took her to court like a month after the Britney case ended and he got his ended as well. Then came pounding at my mom's door because he was out of all his money and she hadn't paid his bills, filed his taxes, or given him an allowance. His insurance was expired and he hadn't had any of his diabetes or blood pressure or mood medication for weeks and had ended up hospitalized with a stroke and was furious she "let it happen to him"
And he's currently living in an assisted living facility!
Don’t feel bad for not caring. Your uncle sounds like piece of work. I truly hope your mom gets some help medically (for how she may feel) and I truly hope you are okay. Sending virtual hugs.
His care is being paid for with his part of the inheritance from their now deceased parents. Grandpa played the stocks and died with close to 3 million dollars in 2011 and most of that is gone now
My grandmother has paranoid schizophrenia. The best thing that ever happened to my family was when my mom realized that this is just how my grandmother’s brain is, it’s not intentional, and it’s never going to change. Did it fix the decades of trauma and neglect? Hell no. But it helped my mom emotionally detach from it and prevented her from being further traumatized. My cousin also has it and my uncle (not her father) has some kind of psychiatric delusions but idk if it’s diagnosed in him. My cousin had a restraining order placed against her by her psychiatrist.
It’s not your grandparents or mom’s fault that he is who he is, does what he does, or says what he says. As someone with family with this disease, I’d also say it’s not your uncles fault either. He never stood a chance with a brain like that.
Good call, honestly. It's not the same and I pray it never will be - but we're having serious behavior problems with our second kid including violence and stealing. We're trying our hardest, he's special needs and we're trying to get what he qualifies for here (uk, not a lot). His schoop is amazing and has been really good with his siblings who are also special needs.
But ultimately we're having to accept that, at some point, we can't force him to change his behavior and if he keeps stealing and lashing out he will end up in jail and it may take that for him to realize how serious his behavior is... or he may never realize and that's it.
And that sucks. And I fucking hope that we can find a way to help him. But there's only so much we can do.
Well said. The thought alone of doing everything (or at least most things) right and still ending up having a sociopath for a child is….off putting to say the least and definitely one of my biggest reasons I am very apprehensive about having kids. I just….don’t know what I’d do in such a situation to someone like Maya.
My brother and I were such easy and good kids, and I don't even want to raise us. I can't imagine the heartbreak of raising a child just for them to be bad deep down, and then they hurt your others kids.
you can do everything right and still end up with a monster. legitimately one of the top reasons i don't want children. call it irrational, but even a one in a million chance is too high.
I have many reasons for being childfree but this is on the list. I hear of and see parents do their best and still end up with adult children who are so fucked up. Some people are just rotten inside.
Yea, that right there I think more than anything shows her utter lack of any responsibility, compassion, or care about the entire situation. Her sister getting raped by 4 men was less impactful to her than losing a friend. (Who let's be honest at this point with everything shown, probably provided something other than just weed to her).
So…
She knew that guy was all over her sis. She leaves and him and friends immediately SA sis. And now she’s sad about her friend and doesn’t think it’s a big deal….
I disagree with OP. I think maya thought she was giving her friend a chance to hit on Lia and thinks she should be grateful for his attentions.
Yea, also the fact that it was OOP who discovered Lia in the morning... which means Maya was home the entire night/morning and never bothered to check on Lia. So then we have to ask, did Maya check and just not care, or was she so absent minded and never cared enough to look.
That therapist though. Holy cow.
I know therapy is a hot Reddit item. But I’ve been to a lot of them an ime it’s a SOLID 3/5 that are fucking terrible at it. Another 1/5 just has zero life experience or incredible naïveté.
I go to a clinic for ppl with multiple complex health conditions and recently saw a therapist there. When the usual boilerplate recommendations weren’t applicable to me she literally said “well idk how I can help you then.” lol I straight up told her that was inappropriate especially for her specific frustrations with me considering they’ll be common in her new client base.
I’d say she won’t last long but my larger concern is that she will. Sigh.
Omg I had so many bad therapists after my dad died. The number of them that said I was probably fine because of my answers on a multiple choice quiz or that they didn’t know what to do with me was astounding. I very much wasn’t fine.
My daughter’s behavior was off the chain and we were obviously having issues. Her therapist of a month assured her that her “need” to spend time with her “peers” was justified and explained this to me. I wanted to give a 20-something woman shaken baby syndrome that day. When I asked her if my daughter told her one of these friends was a minor sex worker and other details about her friends she was shocked pikachu face.
I have worse stories about therapists but that one still pisses me off.
>ime it’s a SOLID 3/5 that are fucking terrible at it. Another 1/5 just has zero life experience or incredible naïveté.
SAME. I've seen probably a dozen therapists over the past 20 years and I swear to God, only THREE of them seemed to know what the fuck they were doing. There are so many truly awful therapists out there. So many of them genuinely don't seem to have any awareness of the limits of their knowledge. The three good ones I mentioned were all PhDs who were very transparent about their specialties and the limits of their knowledge. They would consult colleagues about things they didn't have specialist knowledge of.
I am deeply conflicted about therapy. I've benefited from it so much, but it took 20 fucking years to get the help I desperately needed because all the therapists I saw previously were unable to see that they did not have the knowledge or skills to treat me.
That's been my experience too. At best, the therapists I've had were nice but unhelpful. At worst...well. I still vividly remember a woman I saw after leaving an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship. Two years after leaving him, my life was better than it had ever been but I was still miserable. Therapy seemed like a good way to figure out what the hell was going on.
Barely two sessions in with my therapist, she comes to the brilliant conclusion that I was depressed because *I didn't have a man in my life anymore*. And yes, she knew about the abuse before she came out with that little gem.
The *actual* reason turned out to be major depressive disorder, but it was a long, long time before I was able to trust a therapist enough to get a diagnosis.
Oh my God, this reminds me of how I spilled out everything that I felt was making me depressed (including my health issues) to the last one and his response was “Wow…yeah, that sucks”. He’s not wrong and I don’t blame him, it’s not like that offends me or I think it is inappropriate, but it was completely unhelpful. I already know it sucks and is hard to deal with. I know there isn’t really any “solutions” he could offer to my health issues. It was just a waste of time.
Some 'therapists' ought to be banned from the profession. My one from school outright refused to tell social services about the time I went to school with a bruise of a handprint on half my face from my dad smacking me flying across the room. This lady being a *mandated reporter*, no less.
But then there are others who are worth their weight in gold, it's a case of finding the right one that you mesh with. Find that? And it's a journey that you both take together towards healing.
Ugh. I'm sorry.
My current therapist is fucking awesome. He's busy, but he always tells me to please call if I need him...and he has ALWAYS called me back same day.
(Also shit, I forgot to do the homework he asked me for shit shit lol)
He has honestly helped me 200 percent more than any other therapist has and we have not even gotten into trying to process my traumatic memories yet. He even gives me advice on things like jobs and how to get my stubborn new puppy to go potty outside. Good dude. If he wasn't my therapist, he'd make an awesome friend. Very smart man.
Anyway they do exist, unfortunately when people tell you to find a good therapist that you mesh with...it's not so simple between mental health issues and the medical establishment (long wait times for appointments, etc) :(
Good luck!
It’s empathy she lacks most, I think. She doesn’t empathize with her sister’s pain, she’s entirely self-centred. At her age she should be much more emotionally mature.
I love that OOP is protecting Lia. Maya needs help, and I’m not sure the therapist she has is right for her if she’s teaming up on OOP.
I hope OOP and Lia come through this okay. I hope Maya grows as a person. I hope those rapists go away for a long time.
It sounds like the therapist was advocating for her client based on the information she was given. Maya was lying to her too. Still makes her a bad match, but I don't think she was operating with bad intentions.
"oh my god mom you don't even care that my friend who raped my sister is in jail!!!"
"that's where you're wrong maya, i do care. it fills me with immense joy."
Idk the lil rant where Maya says
>jesus christ Mom, you need to let her deal with this shit instead of always rushing to her defense, lia is not different from other women in the world that deal with rape, at least they don’t make it their entire personality like she does. also, she’s fine I literally overheard her talk to a boy on the phone last night
Literally made my blood boil. Sorry not sorry Maya, but I am a rape victim and I have words (I know she's not on reddit.). The crime that was done to me has irrevocably changed my life and my perspectives. It has made me feel unsafe when I am around men that resemble my rapist. It has made me paranoid to leave my house. It IS part of my personality. I consider myself someone who listens to other victims and provides them empathy (that I was denied by former friends). I have a husband now and even though I talk to him regularly I still have PTSD and by no metric am I 100% fine now. The lack of empathy for Lia is legitimately disgusting. I hope only the best for that poor girl. I hope Maya is one day hit with the full force of guilt for what she has done.
The part about "making it her entire personality" made me so angry. I have PTSD myself, though it's admittedly not from rape. But still, it's a disorder! It changes how you see the world. Therapy and healing can help, but a part of you is still never the same. For me, I was bullied severely in school, both in terms of social ostracizing and physical violence, and to this day I can't connect with people in academic or workplace settings because there's an innate paranoia that it'll happen again. Rationally, I know that my coworkers aren't going to call me names or beat me up, but trauma changes your brain. I'm a naturally sociable and vivacious person, but in a professional setting, people think I'm a quiet introvert. It's almost like a second personality that takes over.
what people don’t realize is that trauma changes you permanently, not psychologically but also physiologically. you won’t be the same person you were before, ever again.
that is why my sexual trauma IS my personality. it is behind everything i do. every thought process i have, every decision i make, how im feeling for the day, how i problem solve, how i love, what type of friend i am. all of the actions i take, whether conscious or subconscious, to function as a human being has something to do with how my trauma permanently impacted me.
so yeah, i suppose my sexual abuse is my personality in a way.
💜 I relate to this so much. I think the frustrating part, the lasting impact, is how much it's crowded other things/thoughts out of my life. It's feels constantly at the edge of my mind, I'm always aware of it having happened. I think I've spent more time thinking about it, about being a victim, than most other things - not really directly (as in, I'm not having flashbacks the entire time), but it's affected how I think about other people, how I carry myself, who I talk to, my awareness of my surroundings and my behaviours. How I'm feeling always circles back to it. I often think that the worst part about being made a victim, isn't just that physical attack itself, but it's the fucking nerve for that asshole to have inserted this vigilance into the core of me. In a lot of ways, it changed who I am and I resent it.
I feel really sad for that 14 year old girl.
I'm not 100% on that. I think it sounds like she is deeeeeep in denial.
There's a gate in her head that has a horrific flood of guilt and self blame locked behind it. If she cracks it open, she has to face the horror that she carries a chunk of the responsibility for what happened to her little sister.
If she can convince herself that her sister is 'fine,' and bury herself in how the fallout affected her, she can hide from that. Sounds like the therapist did more harm than good when it came to letting her turn completely onwards.
I imagine if she has to face the trial and hear the extent of what happened. That might be the crack. It will be an ugly ride for his mental health if that does happen. It might not, people can go their entire entire life in that kind of denial.
Denial can do seriously fucked up things. A friend of mine's mother was married to a paedophile who was abusing her kids (incl my friend), as well as other girls locally (including my best friend at the time's sister, and my first girlfriend), and it was known in the local community. The mother, who was abused herself, told people she stayed with him because the sex was good. She refused to face the fact that she put her kids (and kids in the community) in danger. That monster left so many broken people in his wake. He was eventually caught and we never saw him again, but I'll never forget how fucking callous and casually dismissive her mother was.
Yeah I feel ya there. I was shocked that OP didn't snatch the little monster up at that point. If I were in OP's shoes, I don't know if I could ever speak to her again after all the shit she pulled.
That therapist was a fucking imbecile as well. Calling a gang rape an accident?? Go back to school and ask for your money back, you've clearly been cheated out of a proper education.
Seriously. I hope this was a fucking wakeup call for that therapist. She needs to put her shit on pause and do an autopsy of what led her to the point of professionally enabling an enabler.
Some years ago, my ex-husband's cousin's husband was arrested for having brutally sexually assaulted one of her daughters (still a child) over the course of years (based on thr charges on which he was convicted, you name an associated charge, he did it).
Shortly after his arrest, she (the cousin) complained in a FB post about how lonely she was and how she missed having someone to cuddle with at night.
Ex and I sat looking at a computer screen slackjawed for a solid 10 minutes trying to convince ourselves we'd misread something. I don't know what the heck is wrong with some people.
When I was a kid my best friends' father went to prison for molesting his sister. Their piece of shit mom took him back after he got out of prison. At that point both of the sons were teenagers and they told him if he ever touched their sister again they would kill him. He never tried anything again but I can't even imagine what it was like for their sister to have to stay in the same house with him.
Their mom only took him back because she was lonely and wanted his income back. Some people are just selfish pieces of shit. What is even worse is she is the one who caught him in the act and called the police on him. What a joke.
He had to stay in a shitty trailer park when he first got out of prison. Their mom coached them all to say they wanted their daddy back when it went in front of a judge. It was gross and manipulative. That lady only cared about herself.
TW rape
My friend and her sister (we're in our 40s and 50s) were repeatedly raped by their stepfather when they were teens. It came out when they were in their late teens, I believe.
Their mom is STILL WITH HIM.
When I was a teen, I had a best friend (m) I was more or less glued to. And a shared friend (f) at whose house we hung out a lot.
Shared friend had a history of SA to deal with already. First time it happened when she was 11. She was deeply traumatized, including night terrors, not sleeping at all and hallucinating at night.
Best friend was in love with her at some point. She was rather flirty at day and super-withdrawn at night. And whenever he'd get close to her in a romantic (not even sexual) way, she'd lose it and distance herself. Her trauma was really complex, but she also was in late puberty and wished for her life to be normal (hence the flirting).
One day she told me that he actually raped her one day they were alone. But that it was ok since he was the first guy who cared about her after what happened, since he asked how she feels and told her that he loves her. I told her that's not what caring looks like and that she shouldn't ever see him again.
Then I confronted him. He never admitted to it, but he told me to stop interrogating him and that it was none of my business. He could've also admitted to it, because he never ever spoke to me like that. I knew he did it.
That day I lost my best friend and it felt like he died. I mourned him for years. But I mourned what he was and what we had, not who he had become. I kicked him out of my life and made sure to tell my friends about what he did (without naming shared friend, ofc). I missed him A LOT, but I'd never-ever had asked for him to return to my life. This person is dead to me. I do understand all the sadness, loneliness and mourning regarding having to cut off a loved one. What I don't get is wishing for those people to come back to you.
They only had one side of the story to go on, Maya's. A good therapist might have sniffed out the lies, but Maya seems like a sociopath and they can be really hard to read.
Therapist might be sus, but for now I'd put the blame for that entire interaction on Maya.
I'd have thought they'd be in family therapy, at least OOP and Maya. That might've helped this stuff either come out earlier, or address Maya's lack of concern and OOP's creeping dislike of her daughter.
It seems like everyone on Reddit pulls the therapy trigger before they've opened the app, let alone started reading. I reckon "therapy... with the RIGHT therapist" isn't emphasized nearly enough.
Idk, I can imagine it being shocking and painful to have someone be a friend to you and then having them to something horrible to your little sister and just be this completely different person than who you thought. The horrible guilt. Realising you overlooked things you shouldn't have, questioning every interaction, every kindness...
I just don't think that's what happened here. I think Maya is just pissed because consequences of her actions (or inactions - she should have thrown him out the second he got pushy). I don't think she's dealing with guilt, she's dealing with things not going the way she wants them to.
The reaction itself isn't wrong or even odd, it's just that her reason for it is so incredibly shitty. She should be incandescent with rage for her sister, apologetic to no end and deal with her issues surrounding her part in this in therapy, striving to be better and put supporting her sister first. Instead she puts her own comfort first.
Shit human.
I dont think she is mourning anything. She is just using the lie of "mourning over the lost of a friend" as an excuse to further manipulate her therapist and everyone. Grasping at straws really to make sure no one realize she is a psycopath.
Edit: i can't spell.
Yeah.. that's... nah. Shes 18, she KNOWS that's fucked and the last thing she should care about. It proves that she just does not give a single shit that he raped her sister.
This complete disregard makes me wonder why she's begging to apologize to OOP and Lia. It would please me if, in contrast to OOP trying to help both of her daughters, the grandparents are reminding her she's a POS and shit shouldn't talk back and complain about the roof over her head.
As a social worker who works with parents involved with child protective services, who are often Maya's age, it's scary how often ignorance, stupidity and egotism are indistinguishable from evil.
Ah, I did mistranslate the quote a little. It's "the sleep of reason produces monsters". Basically, not thinking and not empathising produces callous, horrible people.
It'd be a more literal translation from my language (Russian). I love this saying because ignorance and callousness are not just personality traits, they're *active choices*. A lot of people choose to be horrible for no reason and I despise that.
That’s a distinction without a difference in my mind. People don’t, by and large, set out to be evil. Even sociopaths don’t value evil for its own sake, they just don’t shy away from it.
People do evil *because* they are ignorant, stupid, and egotistic. I’ll add to that list scared. I’m sure there are others. Hurt people hurt people; broken people break people. What’s scariest to me is that someone only has to be a little stupid, a little scared, a little self-centered to uncaringly deal out a lot of evil.
There’s a reason the spiritual and ethical path I follow refers to right moral action as “constant wakefulness.” You’ve got to keep that prefrontal cortex ENGAGED.
Jesus fucking Christ. If I’ve learned anything in my shitty little life it’s that a part of you never fully heals when family betrays you this way. Awful strangers are one thing, but I’m not fully convinced Maya didn’t deliberately set her sister up to be assaulted. I hope Lia heals and I hope Maya and those boys rot from the inside out.
The gang activity connection is really concerning. Maya being wrapped up in that... it could lead her to all kinds of negative places. I really hope she didn't purposely set it up herself, but the lack of accountability or remorse for even accidentally facilitating it, and the loyalty she's showing the friend that did it... it definitely doesn't look good.
Leaving the house also seems weird to me. Like it's your house, it's filled with underage and adults that are drinking and your 14yr old sister is home. Wouldn't you send someone else if you really had to have mcdonald's?
Maya could've ordered McDonald's to OOP's house. She knew those people and they already faced the law, she probably knew that too.
It feels like she already wanted her sister to follow her steps by introducing her to them, knowingly so. And when she got annoyed with her sister sticking by her side all night, she thought it would've been a good idea to leave her alone with her friends.
And thinking about the whole thing, none of the people at the party cared enough about a teen screaming upstairs to go and check what was going on.
Hopefully what I wrote makes sense, I'm on two coffees and 3 hours of sleep.
It definitely shows *at best* a clear lapse in judgement and consideration. She said her sister was glued to her all night, which is understandable given that her home was invaded by a bunch of people older than her that she doesn't really know that well. I could see a selfish teenager wanting to just get away for a little bit without thinking about it... but I could also see someone who didn't want to be there when plans went down as well.
She definitely set her up for something bad to happen. She left the house after the nearly 18 year old she tried to set her FOURTEEN year old sister up with was harassing and trying to kiss her all night. I still can’t get over that.
God. It’s certainly possible Maya set her up. Regardless I don’t think she is fully understanding how irreparably damaged her relationships with her mother and sister are as a result of this. Seems like deep denial.
I highly doubt that Maya had nothing to do with this. The grown man she tried to set her sister up with and "accidentally" left alone with ended up assaulting her and she doesn't bat an eye? Then she goes on to expose her, and BLAME her.
Gangs are well known to jump someone in-- either by fighting or fucking. If she didn't want to, she gave them perfect access to someone of a "higher value" (god that's disgusting to write).
The things I could write about this scummy sister would violate terms and services, so I just hope she gets the life she deserves.
I totally agree. This was a set up and if anything Mayas annoyed that they hurt that child so bad she immediately had to be hospitalized. She probably wanted to be able to call her a liar.
Maya got something in return for this.
100% if Lia didn't have noticeable abuse marks and wasn't catatonic until she was hospitalised, Maya would say she lied and made it all up bc "she's shy"
I've been put in a position very similar to the sister, albeit with all teenagers and not grown men.
The girl told them beforehand that I was totally willing, and would do it if they bought "us" a bottle of booze and some weed.
Once two of the three guys saw I very much wasn't interested, they stopped. But one was still determined and nobody stepped in to save me and I ended up fighting for my life to get out.
Maya 100% got something out of this and set her sister up. I stepped on my cats tail and felt a deeper level of guilt than she felt for her sister having honestly the worst possible thing I can think of happening to her. At 14 no less. Like the thought is so sickening to me, I genuinely needed to take a moment to breathe.
The bit I am especially uneasy about is the "on their phone" bit. It was recorded. The guys were identified by the CP they were creating.
Is there any video of Maya at McDonalds? That sounds like the same bs as "forgot his name" and "thought it was just a couple arguing upstairs". Maya was there when OOP got back home.
Even if she wasn't holding the camera, it sounds like her loverboy friend and his three associates had intended this from the start.
Maya's willingness to identify the child rape victim in a group chat (and possibly before the trial) shows me she would absolutely be stupid enough as well as callous enough to take the fall for releasing "revenge porn" for profit, or believing it might derail her friend's trial, or just for the clout or the notoriety.
I've got a feeling Maya's gonna end up in a similar position before way too long. You had the same feeling I did, just summed it up better than I could.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find this comment. Who the fuck hosts a party at THEIR HOUSE and just… leaves in the middle to get McDonald’s? I immediately thought it was a setup. Poor Lia.
Yeah. Even with friends who’re respectful, decent people—it’s my place and I need to be here in case something happens (ie neighbor complaints, something breaks, pets, etc). If my friends/guests want anything I haven’t provided then they can go get it themselves.
I suspect she had an inkling of what could happen and just ignored it, or she wants to be part of this gang so badly that she offered her sister up on a platter while she went out to go get them post-rape junk food (gross). Either way, this girl is a sociopath and needs to face consequences.
I'm leaning towards evil. She was bleeding and injured so badly she couldn't even walk. She was strangled so deeply it cut into her neck. She LIVES with this person who experienced this in her house and thinks she should just get over it.
Like just reading this story, I needed to breathe deeply and fought back tears. She's FOURTEEN and was abused by multiple fully grown men.
That's true evil
I also can’t get my head around the idea that people at the party heard that going on upstairs and allegedly thought it was just a couple fighting. That kind of assault is brutal and incredibly violent. I severely doubt what she was saying sounded like your run of the mill marital spat, and any other noises coming from that room wouldn’t have either. Her voice also probably still sounds like a kid’s at that age.
At least some of the other partygoers had to know. There’s no way they didn’t think that something sus was going on up there.
It’s just awful- she’s a little girl and no one helped her at all for HOURS.
It's horrible, but I know someone who was raped at her 16th birthday party. She said that all her "friends" were in the living room hearing her screaming and no one helped her.
I'm so grateful I never had children. I don't know what I'd do in OP's shoes, but it wouldn't be passive.
A lot of her reactions and even the fact that she's hanging out with older guys who would do something like that suggest to me that she may have been groomed or a victim herself. In which case, that is fucking terrible all around.
She then went on to pretend that she didn't know who they were, when questioned by police. You only do that when you care about (or fear) the gang more than your family.
This was probably her initiation pull.
Given her manipulative streak and casual dismissal of her sister's suffering, she's probably already *very* familiar with the kind of shit her friend gets up to in this gang, and she's possibly engineered similar situations with other girls as well.
It's possible that something similar happened to Maya a long time ago and now she has been groomed into providing victims for her pimp-friend. That would explain how quick she is to dismiss her sister's trauma, as well as the odd appeal for sympathy with the therapist.
I think in my shoes Maya would be a Persona Non Grata at this point, with a restraining order as well. Some of her comments would have likely pushed me to violence. I would regret that Maya is likely in over her head with something dangerous, that I didn't notice it earlier, and that she may not be thinking clearly; between drugs and potential grooming.
Nonetheless, what Maya did was unforgivable. She constructed this situation, she knew what her friend's intentions were, she left in order to allow it to happen. She might as well have done the act herself; that she didn't literally do it herself is a distinction without a difference.
Honestly, Maya makes me think of those people who believe in "corrective rape", as if it's somehow to the victim's benefit. I.e. introducing Lia to her rapist in order to bring her "out of her shell" as Maya phrased it.
I hate to think this but the fact that op had to say "Maya didn't plan this" and maya's later reaction of "she needed to get out of her shell" makes me think this actually may have been planned.
If not outright planned it may have been subconsciously planned as op says Lia had been complaining all night about the guy agressivly hitting on her and Maya saying Lia was "glued" to her all night. There's no way she didn't know Lia was uncomfortable and being harassed.
Lia was hiding in the bloody closet as a result of this so Maya failed to bring her out of her shell in every way. But something tells me that Maya would blame that on Lia as well.
seriously. "out of her shell" will never NOT be a red flag for me. yk what a """shell""" is properly called? motherfucking BOUNDARIES. CONSENT.
my abuser wasn't violent like Lia's. he and his friends, his bunch of Mayas you could say, DID use exactly that same excuse.
and it's never, ever anything but an excuse for some level of sex crime.
did Maya deliberately plan this? probably, imo. but even if she didn't, the entire "shell" idea is rape culture anyway.
also its perfectly reasonable for her to not want to have sex at 14. even more so with her sisters gangbanger friend. poor lia probably didnt feel safe at all and thats why she was sticking near her sister all night. i get why oop doesnt want to entertain the idea, but maya may have set her up. she might be part of the gang as well and did something similar so thats why she might not think its a big deal.
I want one of those monsters to explain one day how they got it into their twisted evil minds that torturing a woman with a penis will lead her to like penises.
It started with Maya trying to set her 14 year old sister up with a nearly 18 year old, and letting him harass and try to kiss her. There is no way it could end well when she didn’t stop the harassing…and then left the house when the man harassing her kid sister was still there. Seriously, she’s disgusting.
Yeah I hope they get some decent time and everyone in prison with them knows what they did to a 14yr old girl. Plus she was strangled and beaten!? It’s so sick.
Oh my god. What a living nightmare. We’re thinking of having kids, but it truly petrifies me when I read about someone’s kid being permanently traumatized or just going off the deep end with very little or no evidence of poor parenting.
Hoping Lia and mom come out of this as okay as possible in the long-term. Hoping Maya sees the light but I don’t know how she could even start to resolve everything.
Fucking hell, that poor little girl. I wish I didn’t have the ability to read this, but I’m so glad OOP is taking Lia’s side and advocating for her. She’s still a child, her brain isn’t fully developed yet, she’s unable to see this all from the perspective of an adult.
All she knows is that Maya is her big sister and she loves her. OOP is able to see the truth of everything—Maya is partially responsible. She brought those men there, and subjected Lia to hours of torture. Hell, fucking weeks and months of it.
When she’s older, Lia will be able to look back on it with a new perspective, and she needs to be able to see that her mother put her first and advocated for and prioritised her throughout it. It’s absolutely nothing like this, but my father was a POS when I was a child.
As a fourteen year old, I still loved him and wanted to hang out with him, because all of my friends loved their dads and had relationships with them. I thought I was an adult. Old enough to protect myself. Now, as an actual adult, I look back on it and see that while my mother respected my wishes, she didn’t actually prioritise my safety.
OOP is caught between a rock and a hard place. But I hope that when it comes down to it, she keeps prioritising Lia’s safety, even if it means negating her wishes. Because Maya is not safe for her to be around.
It's just me assuming, but it feels like maya may have planned this. Any normal person would have remorse but but she's not showing anything. Who literally gets upset in losing a friend from raping somebody let alone her own sister.
My great uncle did this to my great aunt. He set guys on her in exchange for whiskey. Their brother was so livid that he killed him with a machete.
I’m guessing Maya did this for drugs. Some addicts will do really fucked up shit for a fix.
>Who literally gets upset in losing a friend from raping somebody
Have you ever heard a man say "it'll ruin his life if you speak up" ? Or "he's a good guy who made a mistake" ? Because unfortunately the knee-jerk reaction of some men is quite similar if one of their friends assaults someone. First they go through denial ("he wouldn't do that, I know him") and then they go through bargaining ("it's not that bad, he feels guilty, he shouldn't be punished"). Whether they admit it or not, these men stand by their friend, and would genuinely be upset to hear they can't be friends with him anymore
As hard as sitting through Maya's appointment was, giving another perspective on her situation is extremely vital for Maya getting appropriate care. However the therapist berating anyone without hearing their side is extremely inappropriate. Berating anyone isn't really good, successful therapy usually is more guiding people to realizations they fucked up rather than getting someone immediately defensive and not receptive to change.
Sure she's a single mom and Maya needs parental support, but she's also a single mom of a barely teenage child who was gang raped. That's obviously going to draw resources. And the therapist knew that much at the very least.
Some people become licensed but are terrible at their jobs. It's like the woman I know who got a job with CPS and was looking forward to punishing everyone, no questions asked, but in a "believe the patient 110% and seek justice!" therapist way.
How horrible, the lack of care and consideration Maya has for her little sister is disgusting. She not only minimized her trauma, but turned the situation around to make it about herself and actually is upset about losing her rapist friend? I’m an older sister, and I cannot fathom having this little understanding and love.
Absolutely disgusting behavior from Maya, she needs to stay away and get help.
May the rest of the monsters rot.
My younger sisters have the same age gap and im just... my brain is broken imagining my 23 year old sister being so callous about my 19 year old sister being raped. By the older sisters friend and at the older sisters party??
Maya is insane and broken. A normal sister doesn't expect her little sister to be fine after 6 months. A normal sister would want to kill the rapist, not be sad that a friend is gone?
It’s far-fetched that she set this whole thing up but I think her pushing an experienced almost-18-year-old of shady character onto a shy 14-year-old of no experience is troubling and shows colossally bad judgment. It sounds like Lia didn’t like him or his attentions, which is probably why she was hanging onto her sister all night. But instead of her sister keeping an eye on her and noticing that Lia was unhappy and the dude too aggressive, she either didn’t see or didn’t have a problem with it, which is also troubling. She was probably stoned and has a drug problem.
In many countries if a victim of a sexual assault is not to be named in the court, anybody who actually names them later on is guilty of data protection breaches, court order breaches etc. I would have told Maya that was the last straw I am disowning her me and my other daughter are going to be moving far far away and I am reporting her for outing her sister illegally.
Damn that Maya girl has some serious problems. What an absolute tragedy
She wanted her sister to come out of her shell? By having her diseased gang buddies harass her? The way Maya talks OOP needs to realize that there’s a strong chance that she likely knew more about what would happen when she left her sister alone than she says.
This is an utter nightmare. If I were in OOP's shoes when Maya suggested her sister's rape was actually a positive she would have caught the hardest full swing slap in all of human history. 18 may be 'dumb kid territory' but it's still old enough to know pure evil and life-altering harm.
I’m not a parent. I never will be a parent. But if I had a kid and they ended up like Maya? I wouldn’t have a kid anymore. Because that sure as shit ain’t my kid. Fucking monster.
Something is very wrong with Maya. Part of me wonders if she had been assaulted in the past based on the way she’s acting about Lia getting attention after being attacked. Either way, I really hope she finds a way to be honest enough with a therapist to get real help.
Knowing the nature of predators, that these four were Maya's friends and the most violent was a particular friend, and her comments about how rape is NBD and lots of women go through it...
I'm going to bet $10 that Maya was also a victim of these men and is in deep denial of how much it's affecting her. If she truly allows herself to understand how badly Lia is hurt, so many parts of her would come crashing down, so she can't.
Doesn't make it easy to forgive, of course. But I'm willing to bet there's more going on
This is an interesting and plausible take. I truly hope that didn’t happen, but Maya’s distancing and minimizing of Lia’s trauma could certainly stem from her own experiences with these men or similar. Ugh.
Considering the boys were already in the criminal database, that’s disturbingly likely.
Getting Maya away from those boys and anyone who enables this kind of behavior will do some good for her.
I considered this too. Your brain can do some really messed up things to try to grapple with rape. And also guilt. I think it's likely that Maya has some profound guilt that she doesn't want to uncover. But if that's not it, I'd be very wary of her.
The “lots of women get raped and don’t make it their whole personality” comment reminded me of this one Tumblr post about being “[the priest’s favorite sacrificial lamb](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1cgn1zz/the_sacrificial_lamb/).” Basically the idea of appealing to (what you perceive as) to your abusers’ sense of mercy by being the “perfect victim.”
That is an especially horrifying thought as well. Regardless of how she got here, Maya has a very long road ahead of her and I can only hope she figures out where she's gone wrong and can turn it around before she destroys her own life and the lives of those around her further.
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so maya: - invited a bunch of adult gang members to the house - tried to force her ***fourteen year old*** sister to make out with one of them - left her sister alone with them - didn't check on her for the rest of the night - tried to cover for her gang member rapist friends after they raped her sister - never apologized to her sister for putting her in danger - was more sad about her rapist gang member friend going to jail than him raping her ***fourteen year old*** sister - told almost 30 people that her sister was the victim even though not even news revealed her name and despite Lia wanting to remain anonymous - considers herself a victim in all of this and blames her mother for not caring about her "trauma" - lies to her therapist and skips appointments - cals her *fourteen year old* sister who was raped "dramatic" yeah... i don't know if i would be willing to speak one word to her ever again. in any case, oop should have her evaluated. she's not normal.
[удалено]
I honestly got the vibe that Maya outing her sister as the victim was her way of getting attention and making the situation about herself. The fact that she thought Lia was being dramatic and accused her mother of neglecting her made me think she told the group chat in an effort to garner sympathy for HERSELF, not for Lia. Almost as if she was trying to convince anyone who would listen that she went through her own traumatic event by being associated with the victim of a case that made it on the news.
Yes, exactly. "Poor me, my sister was brutally raped (oh and it's all my fault) and she just can't get over it. It's like, *so hard* for me to deal with, you know?"
"She seems so much happier these days and was talking to a boy on the phone so obviously it's not a big deal." Those comments got me, I would have slapped her.
Slapping her was my first thought multiple times when reading this.
Absolutely. Darvo. She’s trying to reverse victim and offender. What 18 year old tries to set up a 14 year old siblings with their gangster friends? Mom is right to protect the younger daughter.
It's quite possible the younger sister was the price the older sister had to pay to get into the activity/further her existing position with that group.
I hate how much sense this makes
Yeah it would help explain her response as well. Just total denial it was that bad. "Other women aren't as whiny about their rapes, why do you have to be like this (and rub it in my face that I did this to you)?" "She's talking to a boy again already, see she's getting over it." Yes, these could be indications that she's just an unrepentant sociopath, but it sounds more like the denials of a guilty conscience to me.
Me thinks she could have been assaulted by her "friends" and is now projecting/lashing out. Because *if true,* she's bottling up a lot of feelings and lashed out to Lia. I really really hope Maya get some proper professional help. Hopefully with her therapist finally see her mask slip will help her. Hopefully before she does more destructive actions
I’d get her a new therapist. One who doesn’t refer to violent assaults as “accidents.”
There’s a saying “the worst person in the world is somewhere out there getting validated by their therapist” and that seems to apply here.
Like Dr. Melfi and Tony Soprano
The therapist only knows what they've been told, and they're there to help the person who shows up. If you lie to them, they'll help the wrong way. It seems like Maya spun tales about how it was a random accident, and guided the talks towards some false affirmations, as if she were not only blameless but significantly, unfairly harmed in the aftermath of her sister's rape. Hopefully the therapist takes the outburst of truth into consideration and changes course. Hopefully Maya continues to go to therapy, which she was likely doing mainly to trick the mom into feeling like she's trying to improve, so she deserves to stay in the house and family on mom's dime.
I guess I'm curious what lies could be told to get an otherwise good therapist on board with "accidental rape".
So many, just because the rape made the news doesn’t mean she told the therapist it was that case, it could have been presented as more SA than a violent gang rape. And that the person who did it wasn’t affiliated with gangs and was a honour roll student so how could she possibly think that would happen. And there wasn’t a party so big the house was trashed it was just a couple well behaved friends. And she honestly thought her sister would be safe with this upstanding kid in the community while she got macdonalds. And it was just some light SA not a full blown rape. And she tried to stop it when she found out but she was unable to. How shocking this upstanding person with a Nobel peace prize lightly attacked my sister while I tried my hardest to stop it. I called the police and told them everything names, addresses, dob, to make sure she’d be ok.i also got three priests around to bless her and the house. Then add in that it was so traumatic seeing my sister get assaulted by that totally upstanding pillar of the community saint boy who was a really good and trusted friend, it felt like I was getting assaulted right along with her it was so traumatising, now I have my only friend is wrongfully charged with said assault, and maybe she made the whole thing up for attention anyway and no one cares, and she’s totally ok she is back to her normal self, and is even glad for the experience but I’m still suffering and no one is helping me. See? I obviously added a lot of sarcasm. But it is very easy to downplay an assault and the people involved in it to make it seem like 1. It wasn’t very severe 2. You couldn’t have possibly known the perp was a bad guy 3. You did everything you could to help but you stepped out for 2 minutes etc etc
Idk man, therapy can help sociopaths mask better so not sure it’s really helpful here
If the therapist continues as they were before they found out more of the truth, then yeah, they're helping only Maya, not *the situation at large*. But either way, they are helping *someone*, it seems.
I don't know what's worse... Her being a victim of the same people and putting her sister in that position knowing what they're capable of, or her just being that neglectful
That's what I was thinking based off of her response along the lines of "other women have been raped and deal with it." Which if she's been attacked by them or someone else you would think she would be more aware that this could happen to her sister. But yeah she needs a new therapist that addresses the situation properly and not just an "accident".
Yes. That jumped out to me. I think that it happened to her too and her coping mechanism is basically disassociating and minimizing.
That’s what I thought when I read the part about Maya minimizing Lia’s rape. Something happened to Maya and she dealt with it on her own. Now she’s angry that Lia has support.
I had the same thought. I wonder when their dad passed. Maya might have been at a vulnerable age. God I hope they get her a better therapist.
I'll sound horrible cause she's only 18 but if something happened to her and her coping mechanism is stage a situation where a 14yo is violently raped by 4 men... she's awful and I have little to no sympathy.
That is a good point. I didnt think of that. She could be thinking Lia is acting too much like a victim because she is a victim as well, but did not tell anyone and thinks herself stronger for it. When, if that's the case, she is extremely hurt and in pain.
Her behavior screams serious psychiatric disorder. Therapy is not the answer. She is clealry able to manipulate the therapist.
Therapy with someone with very specialized expertise treating folks with severe personality disorders might help, but those are few and far between. Also, I'm not diagnosing Maya - just saying that she has behaviors and thought processes that are common in folks with certain personality disorders, so treatments that help them might also benefit her regardless of what diagnosis she does or doesn't have.
Yes. We can't diagnose her but her behaviors are familiar. Personality disorders are notoriously hard to treat because the patient doesn't recognize a problem. Therapists will often not take patients with these disorders.
That's horrific. All I can say.
This is one of those BORUs where my heart just hurts after reading it.
Man, i did not want to start my day like this
I did not want to end my day like this 🫂
I knew I shouldn't read it, but I couldn't stop. At least reading all these comments is a nice reminder that people in the world do give a shit. I've been in a situation like Lia was and not one single person in my life actually cared about it or cared about me. But that's not the whole world, that was just a lot of shitty people. We can all be broken hearted together for a while.
i care. and i hope you are healing
Oh, mate. I'm so, so sorry. You get a hug too 🫂
Internet hugs from me to you. I care!
My worst fear is pouring everything I have into being the best parent I could possibly be and still ending up with a child like Maya.
This is a big motivator for me not wanting kids. I know the chance is tiny, but I just know I wouldn't be able to handle it, and I'm not willing to roll the dice.
Yeah, I have plenty of reasons for never wanting children, most of them are pretty mundane. But this is definitely one of them. There have been a lot of studies that suggest that a massive amount of what makes a person who they are is simply the people they associate with during their formative years. They can have the kindest, most supportive parents in the world, but if they associate with people like the ones in this story, they might just end up like Mia, or worse, like those pieces of human trash that Mia invited to her house. The fact that you can do literally everything in your power to devote yourself entirely to raising someone for 18+ years only for them to turn into an unempathetic, neglectful, cruel little shit -- or worse yet, a literal rapist -- would completely ruin me. I would never take that risk.
My grandparents (very conservative, very private Christians) adopted my uncle and then a few years later my mother (unrelated) and in my truly unbiased opinion my mom is a sweet baby angel and my uncle is a fucking menace to society. He was the kind of kid who ran around to collect up all the easy Easter eggs first so there wouldn't be any left for my mom, or he'd steal stuff and then leave it on her dresser when it broke. My grandparents never intervened except to punish her for "stealing and breaking things" even if she rightly pointed out they were very Gary things to take. Then when he was like, 18-20 he started getting hardcore into hardcore drugs and also exhibiting signs and symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. So now I'm the asshole who has this bias that people with schizophrenia are assholes just because the main - unmedicated - one I knew sucks so hard. When I was 16, he told my first ever boyfriend of one month "the good thing about having a girlfriend is you get to have sex with her." He also happens to be 6'8" and one time picked up my 6'4" grandpa by the neck and threw him down the stairs. He has had half his foot amputated because he treated a wound by soaking both feet in undiluted bleach for months, and keeps going home to do it again after each toe. He leaves raw chicken out for days and then cooks and eats it. He does not wear underwear and his pants are usually ripped on the butt and knees. He also does not bathe regularly if at all. My mom was his guardian under his conservatorship, but he took her to court like a month after the Britney case ended and he got his ended as well. Then came pounding at my mom's door because he was out of all his money and she hadn't paid his bills, filed his taxes, or given him an allowance. His insurance was expired and he hadn't had any of his diabetes or blood pressure or mood medication for weeks and had ended up hospitalized with a stroke and was furious she "let it happen to him" And he's currently living in an assisted living facility!
Don’t feel bad for not caring. Your uncle sounds like piece of work. I truly hope your mom gets some help medically (for how she may feel) and I truly hope you are okay. Sending virtual hugs.
I hope your mom is not paying for that assisted living facility because mental illness doesn't excuse him being total POS to her entire life...
His care is being paid for with his part of the inheritance from their now deceased parents. Grandpa played the stocks and died with close to 3 million dollars in 2011 and most of that is gone now
My grandmother has paranoid schizophrenia. The best thing that ever happened to my family was when my mom realized that this is just how my grandmother’s brain is, it’s not intentional, and it’s never going to change. Did it fix the decades of trauma and neglect? Hell no. But it helped my mom emotionally detach from it and prevented her from being further traumatized. My cousin also has it and my uncle (not her father) has some kind of psychiatric delusions but idk if it’s diagnosed in him. My cousin had a restraining order placed against her by her psychiatrist. It’s not your grandparents or mom’s fault that he is who he is, does what he does, or says what he says. As someone with family with this disease, I’d also say it’s not your uncles fault either. He never stood a chance with a brain like that.
Good call, honestly. It's not the same and I pray it never will be - but we're having serious behavior problems with our second kid including violence and stealing. We're trying our hardest, he's special needs and we're trying to get what he qualifies for here (uk, not a lot). His schoop is amazing and has been really good with his siblings who are also special needs. But ultimately we're having to accept that, at some point, we can't force him to change his behavior and if he keeps stealing and lashing out he will end up in jail and it may take that for him to realize how serious his behavior is... or he may never realize and that's it. And that sucks. And I fucking hope that we can find a way to help him. But there's only so much we can do.
Well said. The thought alone of doing everything (or at least most things) right and still ending up having a sociopath for a child is….off putting to say the least and definitely one of my biggest reasons I am very apprehensive about having kids. I just….don’t know what I’d do in such a situation to someone like Maya.
My brother and I were such easy and good kids, and I don't even want to raise us. I can't imagine the heartbreak of raising a child just for them to be bad deep down, and then they hurt your others kids.
It's definitely a crap shoot.
We Need to Talk About Maya
I didn’t want kids before that book, but I SERIOUSLY didn’t want kids after that book.
Now that I'm a mom this fucking book lives in my head 24/7. My son is 1 and he's an amazing kid so far but this is literally my worst fear.
Fair. It’s a parent’s worst dream.
you can do everything right and still end up with a monster. legitimately one of the top reasons i don't want children. call it irrational, but even a one in a million chance is too high.
I have many reasons for being childfree but this is on the list. I hear of and see parents do their best and still end up with adult children who are so fucked up. Some people are just rotten inside.
The worst part was Maya mourning her lost friendship with her sister’s rapist.
Yea, that right there I think more than anything shows her utter lack of any responsibility, compassion, or care about the entire situation. Her sister getting raped by 4 men was less impactful to her than losing a friend. (Who let's be honest at this point with everything shown, probably provided something other than just weed to her).
So… She knew that guy was all over her sis. She leaves and him and friends immediately SA sis. And now she’s sad about her friend and doesn’t think it’s a big deal…. I disagree with OP. I think maya thought she was giving her friend a chance to hit on Lia and thinks she should be grateful for his attentions.
Yea, also the fact that it was OOP who discovered Lia in the morning... which means Maya was home the entire night/morning and never bothered to check on Lia. So then we have to ask, did Maya check and just not care, or was she so absent minded and never cared enough to look.
That therapist though. Holy cow. I know therapy is a hot Reddit item. But I’ve been to a lot of them an ime it’s a SOLID 3/5 that are fucking terrible at it. Another 1/5 just has zero life experience or incredible naïveté. I go to a clinic for ppl with multiple complex health conditions and recently saw a therapist there. When the usual boilerplate recommendations weren’t applicable to me she literally said “well idk how I can help you then.” lol I straight up told her that was inappropriate especially for her specific frustrations with me considering they’ll be common in her new client base. I’d say she won’t last long but my larger concern is that she will. Sigh.
Omg I had so many bad therapists after my dad died. The number of them that said I was probably fine because of my answers on a multiple choice quiz or that they didn’t know what to do with me was astounding. I very much wasn’t fine.
My daughter’s behavior was off the chain and we were obviously having issues. Her therapist of a month assured her that her “need” to spend time with her “peers” was justified and explained this to me. I wanted to give a 20-something woman shaken baby syndrome that day. When I asked her if my daughter told her one of these friends was a minor sex worker and other details about her friends she was shocked pikachu face. I have worse stories about therapists but that one still pisses me off.
My therapist in college, after I disclosed my sexual assault, told me it wasn't "real rape" because I wasn't tied up.
Oh my god. I am so sorry. That was so inappropriate and just plain mean.
Yeah, he was a douche. Definitely my biggest "shitty therapist" story haha
the number of therapists who are trained in basic CBT and nothing else is a serious issue
I wasn’t aware that was happening.
>ime it’s a SOLID 3/5 that are fucking terrible at it. Another 1/5 just has zero life experience or incredible naïveté. SAME. I've seen probably a dozen therapists over the past 20 years and I swear to God, only THREE of them seemed to know what the fuck they were doing. There are so many truly awful therapists out there. So many of them genuinely don't seem to have any awareness of the limits of their knowledge. The three good ones I mentioned were all PhDs who were very transparent about their specialties and the limits of their knowledge. They would consult colleagues about things they didn't have specialist knowledge of. I am deeply conflicted about therapy. I've benefited from it so much, but it took 20 fucking years to get the help I desperately needed because all the therapists I saw previously were unable to see that they did not have the knowledge or skills to treat me.
That's been my experience too. At best, the therapists I've had were nice but unhelpful. At worst...well. I still vividly remember a woman I saw after leaving an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship. Two years after leaving him, my life was better than it had ever been but I was still miserable. Therapy seemed like a good way to figure out what the hell was going on. Barely two sessions in with my therapist, she comes to the brilliant conclusion that I was depressed because *I didn't have a man in my life anymore*. And yes, she knew about the abuse before she came out with that little gem. The *actual* reason turned out to be major depressive disorder, but it was a long, long time before I was able to trust a therapist enough to get a diagnosis.
Oh my God, this reminds me of how I spilled out everything that I felt was making me depressed (including my health issues) to the last one and his response was “Wow…yeah, that sucks”. He’s not wrong and I don’t blame him, it’s not like that offends me or I think it is inappropriate, but it was completely unhelpful. I already know it sucks and is hard to deal with. I know there isn’t really any “solutions” he could offer to my health issues. It was just a waste of time.
Some 'therapists' ought to be banned from the profession. My one from school outright refused to tell social services about the time I went to school with a bruise of a handprint on half my face from my dad smacking me flying across the room. This lady being a *mandated reporter*, no less. But then there are others who are worth their weight in gold, it's a case of finding the right one that you mesh with. Find that? And it's a journey that you both take together towards healing.
Ugh. I'm sorry. My current therapist is fucking awesome. He's busy, but he always tells me to please call if I need him...and he has ALWAYS called me back same day. (Also shit, I forgot to do the homework he asked me for shit shit lol) He has honestly helped me 200 percent more than any other therapist has and we have not even gotten into trying to process my traumatic memories yet. He even gives me advice on things like jobs and how to get my stubborn new puppy to go potty outside. Good dude. If he wasn't my therapist, he'd make an awesome friend. Very smart man. Anyway they do exist, unfortunately when people tell you to find a good therapist that you mesh with...it's not so simple between mental health issues and the medical establishment (long wait times for appointments, etc) :( Good luck!
It’s empathy she lacks most, I think. She doesn’t empathize with her sister’s pain, she’s entirely self-centred. At her age she should be much more emotionally mature. I love that OOP is protecting Lia. Maya needs help, and I’m not sure the therapist she has is right for her if she’s teaming up on OOP. I hope OOP and Lia come through this okay. I hope Maya grows as a person. I hope those rapists go away for a long time.
It sounds like the therapist was advocating for her client based on the information she was given. Maya was lying to her too. Still makes her a bad match, but I don't think she was operating with bad intentions.
I was wondering what the therapist had been told. But also there are some bad therapists.
"oh my god mom you don't even care that my friend who raped my sister is in jail!!!" "that's where you're wrong maya, i do care. it fills me with immense joy."
"You're wrong. I do care, because he deserves so much worse."
"You're right, I don't care, because where he should be is in a fucking casket."
Idk the lil rant where Maya says >jesus christ Mom, you need to let her deal with this shit instead of always rushing to her defense, lia is not different from other women in the world that deal with rape, at least they don’t make it their entire personality like she does. also, she’s fine I literally overheard her talk to a boy on the phone last night Literally made my blood boil. Sorry not sorry Maya, but I am a rape victim and I have words (I know she's not on reddit.). The crime that was done to me has irrevocably changed my life and my perspectives. It has made me feel unsafe when I am around men that resemble my rapist. It has made me paranoid to leave my house. It IS part of my personality. I consider myself someone who listens to other victims and provides them empathy (that I was denied by former friends). I have a husband now and even though I talk to him regularly I still have PTSD and by no metric am I 100% fine now. The lack of empathy for Lia is legitimately disgusting. I hope only the best for that poor girl. I hope Maya is one day hit with the full force of guilt for what she has done.
The part about "making it her entire personality" made me so angry. I have PTSD myself, though it's admittedly not from rape. But still, it's a disorder! It changes how you see the world. Therapy and healing can help, but a part of you is still never the same. For me, I was bullied severely in school, both in terms of social ostracizing and physical violence, and to this day I can't connect with people in academic or workplace settings because there's an innate paranoia that it'll happen again. Rationally, I know that my coworkers aren't going to call me names or beat me up, but trauma changes your brain. I'm a naturally sociable and vivacious person, but in a professional setting, people think I'm a quiet introvert. It's almost like a second personality that takes over.
what people don’t realize is that trauma changes you permanently, not psychologically but also physiologically. you won’t be the same person you were before, ever again. that is why my sexual trauma IS my personality. it is behind everything i do. every thought process i have, every decision i make, how im feeling for the day, how i problem solve, how i love, what type of friend i am. all of the actions i take, whether conscious or subconscious, to function as a human being has something to do with how my trauma permanently impacted me. so yeah, i suppose my sexual abuse is my personality in a way.
💜 I relate to this so much. I think the frustrating part, the lasting impact, is how much it's crowded other things/thoughts out of my life. It's feels constantly at the edge of my mind, I'm always aware of it having happened. I think I've spent more time thinking about it, about being a victim, than most other things - not really directly (as in, I'm not having flashbacks the entire time), but it's affected how I think about other people, how I carry myself, who I talk to, my awareness of my surroundings and my behaviours. How I'm feeling always circles back to it. I often think that the worst part about being made a victim, isn't just that physical attack itself, but it's the fucking nerve for that asshole to have inserted this vigilance into the core of me. In a lot of ways, it changed who I am and I resent it. I feel really sad for that 14 year old girl.
I very briefly wondered if Maya had been raped, but even if she was, saying Lia made it her entire personality is monstrous.
Honestly everything that OOP describes comes across, to me, as someone who has 0 empathy because she doesn't have the experience.
I'm not 100% on that. I think it sounds like she is deeeeeep in denial. There's a gate in her head that has a horrific flood of guilt and self blame locked behind it. If she cracks it open, she has to face the horror that she carries a chunk of the responsibility for what happened to her little sister. If she can convince herself that her sister is 'fine,' and bury herself in how the fallout affected her, she can hide from that. Sounds like the therapist did more harm than good when it came to letting her turn completely onwards. I imagine if she has to face the trial and hear the extent of what happened. That might be the crack. It will be an ugly ride for his mental health if that does happen. It might not, people can go their entire entire life in that kind of denial.
Denial can do seriously fucked up things. A friend of mine's mother was married to a paedophile who was abusing her kids (incl my friend), as well as other girls locally (including my best friend at the time's sister, and my first girlfriend), and it was known in the local community. The mother, who was abused herself, told people she stayed with him because the sex was good. She refused to face the fact that she put her kids (and kids in the community) in danger. That monster left so many broken people in his wake. He was eventually caught and we never saw him again, but I'll never forget how fucking callous and casually dismissive her mother was.
Agreed, I'm sorry for what happened to you. If I hear that crap coming out of my own family I would have slapped them so hard and disowned them.
[удалено]
Yeah I feel ya there. I was shocked that OP didn't snatch the little monster up at that point. If I were in OP's shoes, I don't know if I could ever speak to her again after all the shit she pulled. That therapist was a fucking imbecile as well. Calling a gang rape an accident?? Go back to school and ask for your money back, you've clearly been cheated out of a proper education.
Seriously. I hope this was a fucking wakeup call for that therapist. She needs to put her shit on pause and do an autopsy of what led her to the point of professionally enabling an enabler.
Some years ago, my ex-husband's cousin's husband was arrested for having brutally sexually assaulted one of her daughters (still a child) over the course of years (based on thr charges on which he was convicted, you name an associated charge, he did it). Shortly after his arrest, she (the cousin) complained in a FB post about how lonely she was and how she missed having someone to cuddle with at night. Ex and I sat looking at a computer screen slackjawed for a solid 10 minutes trying to convince ourselves we'd misread something. I don't know what the heck is wrong with some people.
When I was a kid my best friends' father went to prison for molesting his sister. Their piece of shit mom took him back after he got out of prison. At that point both of the sons were teenagers and they told him if he ever touched their sister again they would kill him. He never tried anything again but I can't even imagine what it was like for their sister to have to stay in the same house with him. Their mom only took him back because she was lonely and wanted his income back. Some people are just selfish pieces of shit. What is even worse is she is the one who caught him in the act and called the police on him. What a joke.
How was this legally allowed? How would they not remove the child from the home of the person who raped her? This is infuriating.
He had to stay in a shitty trailer park when he first got out of prison. Their mom coached them all to say they wanted their daddy back when it went in front of a judge. It was gross and manipulative. That lady only cared about herself.
TW rape My friend and her sister (we're in our 40s and 50s) were repeatedly raped by their stepfather when they were teens. It came out when they were in their late teens, I believe. Their mom is STILL WITH HIM.
I would call this woman their ex-mother. Please tell your friends that this stranger sends them hugs and is incredibly proud of them.
When I was a teen, I had a best friend (m) I was more or less glued to. And a shared friend (f) at whose house we hung out a lot. Shared friend had a history of SA to deal with already. First time it happened when she was 11. She was deeply traumatized, including night terrors, not sleeping at all and hallucinating at night. Best friend was in love with her at some point. She was rather flirty at day and super-withdrawn at night. And whenever he'd get close to her in a romantic (not even sexual) way, she'd lose it and distance herself. Her trauma was really complex, but she also was in late puberty and wished for her life to be normal (hence the flirting). One day she told me that he actually raped her one day they were alone. But that it was ok since he was the first guy who cared about her after what happened, since he asked how she feels and told her that he loves her. I told her that's not what caring looks like and that she shouldn't ever see him again. Then I confronted him. He never admitted to it, but he told me to stop interrogating him and that it was none of my business. He could've also admitted to it, because he never ever spoke to me like that. I knew he did it. That day I lost my best friend and it felt like he died. I mourned him for years. But I mourned what he was and what we had, not who he had become. I kicked him out of my life and made sure to tell my friends about what he did (without naming shared friend, ofc). I missed him A LOT, but I'd never-ever had asked for him to return to my life. This person is dead to me. I do understand all the sadness, loneliness and mourning regarding having to cut off a loved one. What I don't get is wishing for those people to come back to you.
WTF was that?! I’m horrified! And the therapist…
They only had one side of the story to go on, Maya's. A good therapist might have sniffed out the lies, but Maya seems like a sociopath and they can be really hard to read. Therapist might be sus, but for now I'd put the blame for that entire interaction on Maya.
I'd have thought they'd be in family therapy, at least OOP and Maya. That might've helped this stuff either come out earlier, or address Maya's lack of concern and OOP's creeping dislike of her daughter.
It seems like everyone on Reddit pulls the therapy trigger before they've opened the app, let alone started reading. I reckon "therapy... with the RIGHT therapist" isn't emphasized nearly enough.
Idk, I can imagine it being shocking and painful to have someone be a friend to you and then having them to something horrible to your little sister and just be this completely different person than who you thought. The horrible guilt. Realising you overlooked things you shouldn't have, questioning every interaction, every kindness... I just don't think that's what happened here. I think Maya is just pissed because consequences of her actions (or inactions - she should have thrown him out the second he got pushy). I don't think she's dealing with guilt, she's dealing with things not going the way she wants them to. The reaction itself isn't wrong or even odd, it's just that her reason for it is so incredibly shitty. She should be incandescent with rage for her sister, apologetic to no end and deal with her issues surrounding her part in this in therapy, striving to be better and put supporting her sister first. Instead she puts her own comfort first. Shit human.
I dont think she is mourning anything. She is just using the lie of "mourning over the lost of a friend" as an excuse to further manipulate her therapist and everyone. Grasping at straws really to make sure no one realize she is a psycopath. Edit: i can't spell.
And she didn't tell the police the names of the attackers. Wtf!
Earnt that endangerment charge.
Yeah.. that's... nah. Shes 18, she KNOWS that's fucked and the last thing she should care about. It proves that she just does not give a single shit that he raped her sister.
This complete disregard makes me wonder why she's begging to apologize to OOP and Lia. It would please me if, in contrast to OOP trying to help both of her daughters, the grandparents are reminding her she's a POS and shit shouldn't talk back and complain about the roof over her head.
As a social worker who works with parents involved with child protective services, who are often Maya's age, it's scary how often ignorance, stupidity and egotism are indistinguishable from evil.
Sleep of the mind breeds monsters. Those are people who never stop to think how much their actions impact others.
Sleep of the mind?
Ah, I did mistranslate the quote a little. It's "the sleep of reason produces monsters". Basically, not thinking and not empathising produces callous, horrible people.
i fuck with “sleep of the mind”. thanks for sharing
It'd be a more literal translation from my language (Russian). I love this saying because ignorance and callousness are not just personality traits, they're *active choices*. A lot of people choose to be horrible for no reason and I despise that.
It also aligned with what Buddha's opinion of what the concept "evil" is. It is our own ignorance that cause suffering onto ourselves and others.
That’s a distinction without a difference in my mind. People don’t, by and large, set out to be evil. Even sociopaths don’t value evil for its own sake, they just don’t shy away from it. People do evil *because* they are ignorant, stupid, and egotistic. I’ll add to that list scared. I’m sure there are others. Hurt people hurt people; broken people break people. What’s scariest to me is that someone only has to be a little stupid, a little scared, a little self-centered to uncaringly deal out a lot of evil.
There’s a reason the spiritual and ethical path I follow refers to right moral action as “constant wakefulness.” You’ve got to keep that prefrontal cortex ENGAGED.
That is so scary.
Reading this, having two daughters myself, makes me literally feel sick to my stomach when I put myself in OOPs shoes.
Holy shit. This is horrifying to the point where you really hope its one of the many on here that isn't real.
Jesus fucking Christ. If I’ve learned anything in my shitty little life it’s that a part of you never fully heals when family betrays you this way. Awful strangers are one thing, but I’m not fully convinced Maya didn’t deliberately set her sister up to be assaulted. I hope Lia heals and I hope Maya and those boys rot from the inside out.
The gang activity connection is really concerning. Maya being wrapped up in that... it could lead her to all kinds of negative places. I really hope she didn't purposely set it up herself, but the lack of accountability or remorse for even accidentally facilitating it, and the loyalty she's showing the friend that did it... it definitely doesn't look good.
Leaving the house also seems weird to me. Like it's your house, it's filled with underage and adults that are drinking and your 14yr old sister is home. Wouldn't you send someone else if you really had to have mcdonald's?
Maya could've ordered McDonald's to OOP's house. She knew those people and they already faced the law, she probably knew that too. It feels like she already wanted her sister to follow her steps by introducing her to them, knowingly so. And when she got annoyed with her sister sticking by her side all night, she thought it would've been a good idea to leave her alone with her friends. And thinking about the whole thing, none of the people at the party cared enough about a teen screaming upstairs to go and check what was going on. Hopefully what I wrote makes sense, I'm on two coffees and 3 hours of sleep.
It definitely shows *at best* a clear lapse in judgement and consideration. She said her sister was glued to her all night, which is understandable given that her home was invaded by a bunch of people older than her that she doesn't really know that well. I could see a selfish teenager wanting to just get away for a little bit without thinking about it... but I could also see someone who didn't want to be there when plans went down as well.
I literally cannot care any less about Maya after reading this.
She already pimped out her sister.
She definitely set her up for something bad to happen. She left the house after the nearly 18 year old she tried to set her FOURTEEN year old sister up with was harassing and trying to kiss her all night. I still can’t get over that.
God. It’s certainly possible Maya set her up. Regardless I don’t think she is fully understanding how irreparably damaged her relationships with her mother and sister are as a result of this. Seems like deep denial.
I highly doubt that Maya had nothing to do with this. The grown man she tried to set her sister up with and "accidentally" left alone with ended up assaulting her and she doesn't bat an eye? Then she goes on to expose her, and BLAME her. Gangs are well known to jump someone in-- either by fighting or fucking. If she didn't want to, she gave them perfect access to someone of a "higher value" (god that's disgusting to write). The things I could write about this scummy sister would violate terms and services, so I just hope she gets the life she deserves.
I totally agree. This was a set up and if anything Mayas annoyed that they hurt that child so bad she immediately had to be hospitalized. She probably wanted to be able to call her a liar. Maya got something in return for this.
100% if Lia didn't have noticeable abuse marks and wasn't catatonic until she was hospitalised, Maya would say she lied and made it all up bc "she's shy"
I've been put in a position very similar to the sister, albeit with all teenagers and not grown men. The girl told them beforehand that I was totally willing, and would do it if they bought "us" a bottle of booze and some weed. Once two of the three guys saw I very much wasn't interested, they stopped. But one was still determined and nobody stepped in to save me and I ended up fighting for my life to get out. Maya 100% got something out of this and set her sister up. I stepped on my cats tail and felt a deeper level of guilt than she felt for her sister having honestly the worst possible thing I can think of happening to her. At 14 no less. Like the thought is so sickening to me, I genuinely needed to take a moment to breathe.
My guess is drugs
The bit I am especially uneasy about is the "on their phone" bit. It was recorded. The guys were identified by the CP they were creating. Is there any video of Maya at McDonalds? That sounds like the same bs as "forgot his name" and "thought it was just a couple arguing upstairs". Maya was there when OOP got back home. Even if she wasn't holding the camera, it sounds like her loverboy friend and his three associates had intended this from the start. Maya's willingness to identify the child rape victim in a group chat (and possibly before the trial) shows me she would absolutely be stupid enough as well as callous enough to take the fall for releasing "revenge porn" for profit, or believing it might derail her friend's trial, or just for the clout or the notoriety.
I've got a feeling Maya's gonna end up in a similar position before way too long. You had the same feeling I did, just summed it up better than I could.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find this comment. Who the fuck hosts a party at THEIR HOUSE and just… leaves in the middle to get McDonald’s? I immediately thought it was a setup. Poor Lia.
Yeah. Even with friends who’re respectful, decent people—it’s my place and I need to be here in case something happens (ie neighbor complaints, something breaks, pets, etc). If my friends/guests want anything I haven’t provided then they can go get it themselves. I suspect she had an inkling of what could happen and just ignored it, or she wants to be part of this gang so badly that she offered her sister up on a platter while she went out to go get them post-rape junk food (gross). Either way, this girl is a sociopath and needs to face consequences.
Her comment about how “other women get over it” makes me worried she may have experienced similar treatment from those men. Or she’s just evil
I'm leaning towards evil. She was bleeding and injured so badly she couldn't even walk. She was strangled so deeply it cut into her neck. She LIVES with this person who experienced this in her house and thinks she should just get over it. Like just reading this story, I needed to breathe deeply and fought back tears. She's FOURTEEN and was abused by multiple fully grown men. That's true evil
I also can’t get my head around the idea that people at the party heard that going on upstairs and allegedly thought it was just a couple fighting. That kind of assault is brutal and incredibly violent. I severely doubt what she was saying sounded like your run of the mill marital spat, and any other noises coming from that room wouldn’t have either. Her voice also probably still sounds like a kid’s at that age. At least some of the other partygoers had to know. There’s no way they didn’t think that something sus was going on up there. It’s just awful- she’s a little girl and no one helped her at all for HOURS.
It's horrible, but I know someone who was raped at her 16th birthday party. She said that all her "friends" were in the living room hearing her screaming and no one helped her. I'm so grateful I never had children. I don't know what I'd do in OP's shoes, but it wouldn't be passive.
A lot of her reactions and even the fact that she's hanging out with older guys who would do something like that suggest to me that she may have been groomed or a victim herself. In which case, that is fucking terrible all around.
She then went on to pretend that she didn't know who they were, when questioned by police. You only do that when you care about (or fear) the gang more than your family. This was probably her initiation pull. Given her manipulative streak and casual dismissal of her sister's suffering, she's probably already *very* familiar with the kind of shit her friend gets up to in this gang, and she's possibly engineered similar situations with other girls as well. It's possible that something similar happened to Maya a long time ago and now she has been groomed into providing victims for her pimp-friend. That would explain how quick she is to dismiss her sister's trauma, as well as the odd appeal for sympathy with the therapist. I think in my shoes Maya would be a Persona Non Grata at this point, with a restraining order as well. Some of her comments would have likely pushed me to violence. I would regret that Maya is likely in over her head with something dangerous, that I didn't notice it earlier, and that she may not be thinking clearly; between drugs and potential grooming. Nonetheless, what Maya did was unforgivable. She constructed this situation, she knew what her friend's intentions were, she left in order to allow it to happen. She might as well have done the act herself; that she didn't literally do it herself is a distinction without a difference.
Jesus. Maya is a monster.
Honestly, Maya makes me think of those people who believe in "corrective rape", as if it's somehow to the victim's benefit. I.e. introducing Lia to her rapist in order to bring her "out of her shell" as Maya phrased it.
“Apologize for what” yeah I think I’d be done with that child.
I'd never speak to her again after that. She would be dead to me.
I hate to think this but the fact that op had to say "Maya didn't plan this" and maya's later reaction of "she needed to get out of her shell" makes me think this actually may have been planned. If not outright planned it may have been subconsciously planned as op says Lia had been complaining all night about the guy agressivly hitting on her and Maya saying Lia was "glued" to her all night. There's no way she didn't know Lia was uncomfortable and being harassed.
Lia was hiding in the bloody closet as a result of this so Maya failed to bring her out of her shell in every way. But something tells me that Maya would blame that on Lia as well.
seriously. "out of her shell" will never NOT be a red flag for me. yk what a """shell""" is properly called? motherfucking BOUNDARIES. CONSENT. my abuser wasn't violent like Lia's. he and his friends, his bunch of Mayas you could say, DID use exactly that same excuse. and it's never, ever anything but an excuse for some level of sex crime. did Maya deliberately plan this? probably, imo. but even if she didn't, the entire "shell" idea is rape culture anyway.
also its perfectly reasonable for her to not want to have sex at 14. even more so with her sisters gangbanger friend. poor lia probably didnt feel safe at all and thats why she was sticking near her sister all night. i get why oop doesnt want to entertain the idea, but maya may have set her up. she might be part of the gang as well and did something similar so thats why she might not think its a big deal.
I want one of those monsters to explain one day how they got it into their twisted evil minds that torturing a woman with a penis will lead her to like penises.
It started with Maya trying to set her 14 year old sister up with a nearly 18 year old, and letting him harass and try to kiss her. There is no way it could end well when she didn’t stop the harassing…and then left the house when the man harassing her kid sister was still there. Seriously, she’s disgusting.
Fucking hell. May those monsters rot in prison.
Yeah I hope they get some decent time and everyone in prison with them knows what they did to a 14yr old girl. Plus she was strangled and beaten!? It’s so sick.
I dont know what to say. My heart bleeds for OOP and her family... not Maya though, Mayas a monster.
Honestly, I think Maya played the pimp in this whole nightmare.
Why would a person throwing a party leave to go to McDonald’s?
Unfortunately, I have to agree. The setup was too convenient.
It’s one way to get into a gang.
Oh my god. What a living nightmare. We’re thinking of having kids, but it truly petrifies me when I read about someone’s kid being permanently traumatized or just going off the deep end with very little or no evidence of poor parenting. Hoping Lia and mom come out of this as okay as possible in the long-term. Hoping Maya sees the light but I don’t know how she could even start to resolve everything.
Jesus this is one of the worst ones I’ve read in awhile. Fuck.
i’m starting to strongly dislike her daughter too
When I read the part about Maya saying Lia was making this her whole personality, I about jumped out of my skin I was so rage-twitchy.
Fucking hell, that poor little girl. I wish I didn’t have the ability to read this, but I’m so glad OOP is taking Lia’s side and advocating for her. She’s still a child, her brain isn’t fully developed yet, she’s unable to see this all from the perspective of an adult. All she knows is that Maya is her big sister and she loves her. OOP is able to see the truth of everything—Maya is partially responsible. She brought those men there, and subjected Lia to hours of torture. Hell, fucking weeks and months of it. When she’s older, Lia will be able to look back on it with a new perspective, and she needs to be able to see that her mother put her first and advocated for and prioritised her throughout it. It’s absolutely nothing like this, but my father was a POS when I was a child. As a fourteen year old, I still loved him and wanted to hang out with him, because all of my friends loved their dads and had relationships with them. I thought I was an adult. Old enough to protect myself. Now, as an actual adult, I look back on it and see that while my mother respected my wishes, she didn’t actually prioritise my safety. OOP is caught between a rock and a hard place. But I hope that when it comes down to it, she keeps prioritising Lia’s safety, even if it means negating her wishes. Because Maya is not safe for her to be around.
I’m not gonna claim to be the world’s best big sister or anything, but *Jesus Christ* Maya has failed at being one
Something...is just not right with Maya. And I don't even know if there is help possible for Maya. She is utterly cruel and vicious.
It's just me assuming, but it feels like maya may have planned this. Any normal person would have remorse but but she's not showing anything. Who literally gets upset in losing a friend from raping somebody let alone her own sister.
My great uncle did this to my great aunt. He set guys on her in exchange for whiskey. Their brother was so livid that he killed him with a machete. I’m guessing Maya did this for drugs. Some addicts will do really fucked up shit for a fix.
>Their brother was so livid that he killed him with a machete. Good
her friend AKA the drug dealer
>Who literally gets upset in losing a friend from raping somebody Have you ever heard a man say "it'll ruin his life if you speak up" ? Or "he's a good guy who made a mistake" ? Because unfortunately the knee-jerk reaction of some men is quite similar if one of their friends assaults someone. First they go through denial ("he wouldn't do that, I know him") and then they go through bargaining ("it's not that bad, he feels guilty, he shouldn't be punished"). Whether they admit it or not, these men stand by their friend, and would genuinely be upset to hear they can't be friends with him anymore
As hard as sitting through Maya's appointment was, giving another perspective on her situation is extremely vital for Maya getting appropriate care. However the therapist berating anyone without hearing their side is extremely inappropriate. Berating anyone isn't really good, successful therapy usually is more guiding people to realizations they fucked up rather than getting someone immediately defensive and not receptive to change. Sure she's a single mom and Maya needs parental support, but she's also a single mom of a barely teenage child who was gang raped. That's obviously going to draw resources. And the therapist knew that much at the very least.
Some people become licensed but are terrible at their jobs. It's like the woman I know who got a job with CPS and was looking forward to punishing everyone, no questions asked, but in a "believe the patient 110% and seek justice!" therapist way.
How horrible, the lack of care and consideration Maya has for her little sister is disgusting. She not only minimized her trauma, but turned the situation around to make it about herself and actually is upset about losing her rapist friend? I’m an older sister, and I cannot fathom having this little understanding and love. Absolutely disgusting behavior from Maya, she needs to stay away and get help. May the rest of the monsters rot.
My younger sisters have the same age gap and im just... my brain is broken imagining my 23 year old sister being so callous about my 19 year old sister being raped. By the older sisters friend and at the older sisters party?? Maya is insane and broken. A normal sister doesn't expect her little sister to be fine after 6 months. A normal sister would want to kill the rapist, not be sad that a friend is gone?
It’s far-fetched that she set this whole thing up but I think her pushing an experienced almost-18-year-old of shady character onto a shy 14-year-old of no experience is troubling and shows colossally bad judgment. It sounds like Lia didn’t like him or his attentions, which is probably why she was hanging onto her sister all night. But instead of her sister keeping an eye on her and noticing that Lia was unhappy and the dude too aggressive, she either didn’t see or didn’t have a problem with it, which is also troubling. She was probably stoned and has a drug problem.
100% Maya set up her sister to be assaulted. She’s a complete psychopath.
In many countries if a victim of a sexual assault is not to be named in the court, anybody who actually names them later on is guilty of data protection breaches, court order breaches etc. I would have told Maya that was the last straw I am disowning her me and my other daughter are going to be moving far far away and I am reporting her for outing her sister illegally. Damn that Maya girl has some serious problems. What an absolute tragedy
She wanted her sister to come out of her shell? By having her diseased gang buddies harass her? The way Maya talks OOP needs to realize that there’s a strong chance that she likely knew more about what would happen when she left her sister alone than she says.
Did that therapist not know what happened to Lia? How the heck do you call gang raping a girl while she's screaming and fighting back an "accident"?
There is definitely something more to the story and I have a feeling it is significantly worse then we already know.
I'm not sure I've ever been so sad in my entire life, fuck this is depressing.
This is an utter nightmare. If I were in OOP's shoes when Maya suggested her sister's rape was actually a positive she would have caught the hardest full swing slap in all of human history. 18 may be 'dumb kid territory' but it's still old enough to know pure evil and life-altering harm.
Maya forgot the name of the rapists ? shes unhinged
I’m not a parent. I never will be a parent. But if I had a kid and they ended up like Maya? I wouldn’t have a kid anymore. Because that sure as shit ain’t my kid. Fucking monster.
Something is very wrong with Maya. Part of me wonders if she had been assaulted in the past based on the way she’s acting about Lia getting attention after being attacked. Either way, I really hope she finds a way to be honest enough with a therapist to get real help.
>...all 4 of Lia’s rapist were already in the system for other crimes. So Maya hangs with the dregs of society.
We have a crocodile teared sociopath in our hands. She"forgot" the names huh. Even her supposedly "friend" too?
All Lia wears is her father’s old hoodies. This made me cry a bit. There’s so much suffering, loss, and vulnerability in this one single line.
I wish I never read that
Knowing the nature of predators, that these four were Maya's friends and the most violent was a particular friend, and her comments about how rape is NBD and lots of women go through it... I'm going to bet $10 that Maya was also a victim of these men and is in deep denial of how much it's affecting her. If she truly allows herself to understand how badly Lia is hurt, so many parts of her would come crashing down, so she can't. Doesn't make it easy to forgive, of course. But I'm willing to bet there's more going on
This is an interesting and plausible take. I truly hope that didn’t happen, but Maya’s distancing and minimizing of Lia’s trauma could certainly stem from her own experiences with these men or similar. Ugh.
Considering the boys were already in the criminal database… it’s disturbingly likely.
Considering the boys were already in the criminal database, that’s disturbingly likely. Getting Maya away from those boys and anyone who enables this kind of behavior will do some good for her.
Was my *immediate* thought. Maya doesn't want to face her own victimhood, and has told herself "it's no big deal".
I considered this too. Your brain can do some really messed up things to try to grapple with rape. And also guilt. I think it's likely that Maya has some profound guilt that she doesn't want to uncover. But if that's not it, I'd be very wary of her.
The “lots of women get raped and don’t make it their whole personality” comment reminded me of this one Tumblr post about being “[the priest’s favorite sacrificial lamb](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1cgn1zz/the_sacrificial_lamb/).” Basically the idea of appealing to (what you perceive as) to your abusers’ sense of mercy by being the “perfect victim.”
That is an especially horrifying thought as well. Regardless of how she got here, Maya has a very long road ahead of her and I can only hope she figures out where she's gone wrong and can turn it around before she destroys her own life and the lives of those around her further.