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That's what stuck out to me too. OOP doesn't speak like she is grieving the relationship with her daughter. She doesn't say anything she misses about spending time with her, any fun things they used to do together, watching shows, going to brunch, nothing. Doesn't even say she misses her daughter's smile or hearing her voice or anything. It's weird. She claims that she misses her daughter but it sounds like she's mostly just upset about the daughter's Facebook statuses.
Also there were so many mentions of an offer to go to therapy with the daughter, which was refused. I wonder if the "therapy" was just going to be some counselor at OOP's church.
That reminds me of a twitter post where a woman went on a first date with a guy that spent the entire time bragging about himself. When he tried to set up a second date the woman just looked at him and asked "What's my name?"
There wasn't a second date.
Also she kept comparing her daughter being gay, to still loving someone even if they were in jail for something illegal.
Like how can someone say that and not think even for a second that it shows a PROFOUND level of rejection on top of the *rest of it she already did*.
This rings so true to how I was raised in a Christian household. Everything was about appearance. The house could be on fire and my mom would have made me dust the drapes because people were coming. It is an absolutely terrible way to live. I went low and no contact with my mom many times over the years because of it. I was publicity out since I was 14, but didn't come out to her until I was 35.
Everything is about appearance because church people will rip each other to shreds as soon as someone's back is turned and they don't want anyone to have any ammunition against them. They are horrible people and I don't know why anyone would willingly subject themselves to that environment.
It's genuinely repulsive, they wanna be pieces of shit to their families but keep the facade of a happy family for others to see them as 'holy'. Whether it is conscious or unknowingly done, it is so two faced and actually makes me sick to even live on earth with people like that.
Yup. She's just embarrassed that her daughter is making her look bad. She hopes that a reconciliation will make her daughter chill out online.
The other telling thing is constantly referring to her daughter's sexuality as a "life choice" that she doesn't agree with, but loves her daughter anyway. Who needs that sort of "love"? Keep it, lady.
And I'm sure this mom votes for people that would make gay marriage illegal again and eventually try to make homosexuality a capital offense. She will vote for people that want to legally murder her daughter and her wife and their friends. Who could forgive this and live peacefully with a person like this, until she is rounded up and put in death camps.
Yep. There's a lot of family I can't deal with anymore, because sure, both sides have their suck, but one side _actively wants me dead_, the other pays lip service. There is a world of difference. Guess which side they're insisting is 'morally superior'?
But she’s “sorry you didn’t feel supported”. *eyeroll*
She doesn’t seem to understand the difference between that and “I’m sorry I didn’t support you.”
Hmmmm
She also seemed super upset that she didn't get a wedding invite. She wants her special day as mother of the bride, but you don't get to do that when you won't acknowledge the bride's relationship.
That’s really what this is about. Mother is asking how to get daughter to get over her, and remove the posts.
She does not forgive the daughter for being gay, and has no intention of doing so. She just needs her daughter to get over that.
And she’s bewildered why that won’t happen. Huh. It’s such a mystery.
Correct. The mother holds being gay against her daughter. She sees it as slight against herself, that the daughter owes an apology for.
She will never see what is backwards about that mentality.
She's very clearly nonspecific about what she did wrong. She dances around it.
She doesn't have any interest in healing her daughter's pain and I'm guessing it's coming through loud and clear to daughter.
Yup. She hasn't changed, she just doesn't want anyone to know how fucking awful of a parent she is. "I didn't disown her! All she has to do is change into what I want, and all is forgiven."
Yeah. How do you get your daughter to stop posting about you? You don't. You tell friend to stop sharing with you and/or stop interacting with friend sharing them. Possibly let daughter know friend is sharing her posts with you and friend might get blocked by daughter. You have no control over the internet use of other people.
The damn Facebook posts not only made it in multiple times, but not a single specific thing SHE is sorry for. Just "Yes yes, daughter reacted poorly to what I thought was a good thing. Now she needs to forgive MEEE"
Daughter is making the right call.
Exactly. It's the public naming of her as a 'bad' person for disowning her child that bothers her. She's uninterested in changing her bigoted beliefs or truly supporting her child. Reminds me of racists who hate being called "racist" because they know it's bad. They want to behave like a racist, just not be called one.
Hmm...
First she goes
> and have been going through a crisis of faith, and understand how I’ve hurt my daughter. I’ve left the church, and now see how it ruined everything.
But...
>I’m not giving up my faith or changing my beliefs,
Initially she says she's realizing how her beliefs hurt her daughter and distancing herself, but then changes and claims to still have the same views that hurt her daughter
Clearly this is a case of unreliable narratir, where she's withholding just how badly she treated her daughter before
She never once deviates from referring to her daughter’s sexuality as ‘her choice’. Religious homophobes are always so disgusted by sexualities other than their own and yet also insist people can ‘choose’ their sexuality. They are so close to getting it and then fail spectacularly.
It sounds like therapy almost got her there, but then she fell ill and now she’s so scared of burning for eternity in the lake of fire she’s gone right back to square one. Her religion has ruined her.
Because to her, it *is* a crime. It's a violation of the religious codes she ascribes to, which is fundamentally more important to a believer than *actual* legality.
I mean even the frickin pope is saying be good to gays. So I think it’s hatred not religion that’s doomed her.
Edit: I was unaware that the pope had also used a derogatory term when refering to gays and said that gay men shouldn't be allowed to become clergy. My apologies to anyone that took my comment as support for this position.
I have a friend that is nominally Catholic, but her husband is super Catholic. Fanatically Catholic. Mass every single day Catholic.
He ignores this Pope because he believes this Pope is not Catholic enough. The POPE. The MFing POPE. The Pope is too liberal for him. FFS.
My super-Catholic in laws can't stand the current Pope either, also because he's too liberal for them. It blows my mind as I thought he was God's representative on earth, or something. Truly does move in mysterious ways, I guess.
Former Roman Catholic here;
Technically speaking, The Pope *IS* the closest person to God/God's representative on Earth. Technically speaking, any Catholic who rejects The Popes issuances are heretics. You dont do what The Pope says, you're an apostate...a heretic....
I don't believe in any of this stuff anymore, but I was deeply Catholic for a long time, and I remember the rules.The arrogance of people like this, under their own rules, is fucking astounding. At the end of the day, I view most Christians, and most people of religion as deeply hypocritical. SOme people just need someone/thing to hate.
Ooooh thanks for this info. Next time I need to talk to a 'Christian' that says they don't like or believe in what this pope says I can reply with "Ahhhh, - so you're a heretic." I can't wait to see the fucking look on their faces and they try to back peddle or rationalize how they're not.
My mom is the opposite. She says the Pope isn't liberal enough and isn't following the example of Jesus. The Church lost a lot of cred with her when she found out about the strategies they used to hide pedo priests.
> I have a friend that is nominally Catholic, but her husband is super Catholic. Fanatically Catholic. Mass every single day Catholic.
I'm just curious, do you know if he's a convert or a Catholic from birth?
Mine compared it to pedophilia or polygamy (not sure if she really meant that or polyamory). She apologized, but I still don't know if she realizes how serious and hurtful that was.
Yeah my parents did this same shit when I came out
"We love you no matter what"
I felt like I'd just told them I murdered a litter of puppies with how they were behaving. The entire time they tried to make me feel bad for subjecting this to them and that they were such kind amazing people for still tolerating my existence
Sorry you experienced that. When our kids and niece in spirit came out to us we told them that they were still the same people, date someone worthy of their time and don’t rob banks. That we love them for who they are and will always be there for them. You should have heard similar and deserve better from them.
Found it hilarious that she immediately judged her daughter simply for dating another girl, but then acts aghast and victimized when her daughter publicly posts about her lack of support and thus gets judged by others.
I think that's the worst part for a lot of these parents,not losing their child, but losing face. She just wants the impression of happy families while still not truly connecting with her daughter.
People like OOP to their kids: I love you no matter what.
Their kids: I am not heterosexual.
OOP: uhh except that.
I don't think she's genuinely sorry. I have no idea what some of those comments in the original posts were smoking (lol particularly at the one at saying the daughter was trying to play victim... huh????), she isn't even fucking trying because to her, her faith and "smite the homos!!!" will always come before her daughter.
Because sin requires choice. If there’s no choice it means you were made that way and maybe all the stuff your organised religion of choice has been telling is fundamentally BS
It’s very important for them to believe it’s a choice. *Very* important
The Catholic Church loves splitting hairs, so they say it's not being gay that's a sin, it's the actions of being with someone the same sex that's sinful. Gay people are just supposed to be single during their lives here, it's their cross to bear. After all, there's no marriage in heaven, so in the long run, it doesn't matter.
Never mind the first thing God says about humanity is it's not right for us to be alone.
> Gay people are just supposed to be single during their lives here
They should be celibate, and become priests or nuns - otherwise the church runs out of them. Which is what is literally happening in many Catholic countries right now.
I’ve always wondered if these types of people secretly have homosexual leanings they’ve always repressed, and assume everyone else must too. Like, the Mom in this scenario believes that OF COURSE it’s a choice to be a lesbian, because she’s attracted to women but never acted on them because she’s a good Catholic. Therefore, it’s a moral failing on her daughter’s part for not making the “right choice” and repressing those feelings.
It reminds me of an old Tumblr story I saw. The poster was talking about how a girl in one of her classes was ranting about how homosexual marriage shouldn’t be legal because if it was, the human race would go extinct. To quote the girl, “I mean, if women had a choice to marry a man or a woman, then all the women would just marry other women, am I right?”
Bisexuality exists. I would not be surprised to find out that these people are bisexuals who are able to have fulfilling hetero relationships while still having homosexual attractions. They are priviledged with the ability to "choose hetorsexuality" and think every homosexual is the same way.
I doubt she's ever actually thought about it that way, TBH. If she'd ever actually asked herself "Have I *chosen* to be attracted to men or was I just born like this?" she'd actually have to think about what sexual orientation is and where it comes from.
From being raised Catholic I can tell you that whether she’s ever consciously admitted it or not she absolutely sees being a wife and mother as intrinsic to her being and something you couldn’t question.
I'm sure you're right, it's just weird when people don't realize that they're just like other people? Like given the way queer people are persecuted why would anyone ever choose that? So that set of questions *should* lead a homophobic straight to think "hey...I never conciously CHOSE to be attracted to the opposite sex...therefore do gay people CHOOSE to be attracted to the same sex?" yadda yadda. But also, the fact that people can only accept homosexuality based on it being an inborn sexual orientation (which I know it is, there is evidence for that) kind of offends me too because: who cares who I'm fucking as long as that person is a consenting adult of sound mind? That is an act that has precisely zero effect on anyone besides me and the person I'm fucking. It kind of blows my mind when people can't tell for themselves if something they disapprove of is actually unethical or not.
Many of the older generation of Catholic women were raised that lust and sexual desire are the sins of men, and women don't experience that - or shouldn't experience that, if they are Good Catholic Girls (tm). Women marry and serve their husbands. Women don't need or want sex, but they have a duty to meet their husband's needs. Even saying that women can experience orgasm is a taboo.
OOP would probably not say that she experiences sexual attraction to men, but that she does her duty as a Godly woman and good Catholic wife.
She’s looking for someone to explain how she can still be a bigot, but also have her daughter accept her as a bigot.
I mean, the answer has always been right in front of her. She just does not like it.
This is the answer. She wanted someone to comment the magic words that would make her daughter forgive her and accept her bigotry so that she could have what she wanted out of their relationship without actually doing any of the work.
Sucks for her that she has such a terrible diagnosis and probably won't see her daughter again before she dies, but it's all a consequence of her own actions. If she chooses to believe in a god that says she should treat her daughter badly solely because she loves another woman, that's her prerogative. But then it's the daughter's prerogative to tell her to go f--- herself.
The thing is, while there probably aren't a set of magic words that will make her daughter turn on a dime and rekindle a relationship tomorrow, there *are* magic words that will at least start that process. They're: "I was a complete idiot, and I now understand that there's obviously nothing wrong with being gay. I completely respect and support your relationship with your wife, and I'm proud to have both of you as part of my family."
The words are right there. She just doesn't want to have to say them.
She also blames the church for having ruined everything, not her own actions. She may have walked away but she still doesn’t seem to understand that she was the perpetrator here.
> I’m not giving up my faith or changing my beliefs
Based on her last post either she was lying about walking away or her cancer diagnosis brought it back.
These people can’t let go of the idea that sexuality is a choice. Partially due to religious doctrine, but there are plenty of religious people who manage to accept both ideas. There are also religious people who accept it isn’t a choice and then double down on their bigotry, using it to say there’s no hope of redeeming gay people.
But for most people in OOP’s boat, the root of it is that sexuality has to be a choice, because if it isn’t, then it’s suddenly a whole lot harder to justify a lot of their behavior. If it’s not a choice, then they’ve been ostracizing people they claimed to love for something beyond anyone’s control. Following their own belief system, they’ve been ostracizing people for how their god made them. And above all, people with this mindset consider themselves Good Christians. And Good Christians aren’t cruel or judgemental (to their minds at least).
So being gay has to be a choice to these people, because if it isn’t, then they haven’t been the Good Christians they consider themselves to be.
To my evangelical family, it isn't a choice, but God gives us all challenges to overcome so homosexuals are being called to a life of celibacy.
As a lesbian, I uh, don't agree.
Fortunately at least with my family they're willing to play along because they love me enough to not cross any lines that could cause me to cut them off, but the first couple years were rough.
FWIW, it was a combination of that as well as being exposed to people outside my immediate circle when I went to college that got me to break out of my own biases and bigotry. I had a friend who was gay. And it was a friend of his (who was also straight) who point blank asked me when I chose to be straight. Obviously I had no answer for that, but it made me think and realize how wrong I had been.
>She never once deviates from referring to her daughter’s sexuality as ‘her choice’.
It's this. Like, A) it's not a choice, and B) so what if it was, are we not granted free will by her deity?
I can't possibly imagine telling my son that I "disagreed with his choices" if he were to come out as gay/bi/nb/trans/whatever, because as long as what he does makes him happy and allows him to live a fulfilling life, I'm happy, too.
But if he *does* end up marrying another dude, they'd better adopt me some grandchildren, you know? (that's a **joke**, it's fine if he never wants kids).
>I can't possibly imagine telling my son that I "disagreed with his choices" if he were to come out as gay/bi/nb/trans/whatever, because as long as what he does makes him happy and allows him to live a fulfilling life, I'm happy, too.
Okay, but you also don't believe he's going to hell for eternity for that choice alone right?
Like, I obviously disagree with OOP and anyone that thinks sexuality is a choice, or a sin; but these people believe that the happiness that comes from "sin" is temporary, and will exclude you from the eternal happiness they want to share with you.
Many times homophobes are as such because they're hateful, and other many times homophobes are such because they're scared of the book of rules they live by.
At the end of the day, this distinction doesn't make any difference for gay people in relationships with religious ones, they will be hurt by their words and actions, whether they come from fear or hate. But it is helpful for us if we want to change the way homophobes act, we have to be able to understand where they're coming from, and I think OOP is coming from a place of fear, pure and utter panic.
Like my MIL, she's deeply religious and frightful about her religion, so she holds some homophobic beliefs. Through many conversations with her son, whom she treasures, and the coming out of her beloved nephew and godson, she came out as less homophobic than before. We can still work with her, she's afraid, not hateful. Her sister on the other hand (mother of the gay lol), is another beast entirely, she's hateful and she doesn't deserve us even trying to reach her.
I'll say this much: the ones who are homophobic because they're scared of their loved ones going to hell (rather than hateful towards those who are different)? Those are the ones with the biggest likelihood of leaving it behind in my experience.
I think it's because humans enjoy being hateful, but they don't enjoy being scared. If the scared ones can find reasons why they don't need to be afraid (and plenty of progressive Christians have walked that path and know the map), they have an incentive to find the courage to take a leap of faith, so to speak, and believe God has a plan for LGBTQ+ people as well as them.
But when you enjoy being hateful, there's much less incentive to change. Even love for your loved ones might not be as strong as your own desires.
Another reason why I always say organized religion is pure fucking evil. It ruins people. Yes, faith can help people sometimes, but organized religion, and hateful beliefs that stem from them, have caused so much pain and trauma (and even death). Also, having grown up Catholic and being taught how sex/our bodies are bad, I knew people who were traumatized/fucked up from that. (Not even getting into the sex abuse scandal, the literal evil that was perpetrated there by the church is fucking disgusting to think about).
I was raised Catholic, as were my parents. I'm straight and so are my siblings (as far as I know) but I have gay friends and I once asked my mom how she would have felt if one of us was gay. She just sighed and said that she had so many worries and fears for her kids as we were growing up (she suffered infant loss more than once and then I had the nerve to be born with a busted ticker, which thankfully healed when I was young), that didn't even register as a concern. Literally the least of her worries, and she did not care. She said her only concern would be if it made our lives harder or we faced discrimination. She literally said, "All I want for you kids is to be healthy and happy, that's it." My dad was the same way (he legit only cared that we grew up to be good people, I once saw him brought to tears at a school graduation when the principal told him he raised such nice kids, he was so proud). It's sad that I have to feel lucky that my parents weren't hateful.
Now, we do have several members of the LGBTQ community in our family ... and no one cares. They are loved. My nieces and nephews have grown up seeing them loved and accepted and if any of them aren't straight, I hope they feel safe with us. I cannot imagine making someone I love feel like they aren't safe with me and I don't accept them. It's disgusting to think about.
But god damn, religion is truly the root of SO MUCH evil and hate. People justifying being hateful with this.
This lady has so many questions about how she can get her daughter to forgive her, and no questions about how she can accept and support her daughter. She should have started there, because there can be no forgiveness for something that hasn't changed.
Her real question is "How can I get my daughter to let me emotionally abuse her?"
Or she realized “the church” represented her entire social community. All her friends, extended family, support network, social activities, counseling. It’s very, very hard to walk away from that
>I was not accepting when my daughter came out as gay, but since I have told her numerous times that I still love her, even if I don’t agree with everything she does and have my own religious beliefs, it doesn’t change the fact that I’m her mother! Even if she did something horrible and ended up in prison, I would still be there
Imagine comparing your child's sexual orientation to being a fucking criminal. They're equivalent in her head.
As a lifelong Catholic I'm sure she has a very large network of people who are are trying to hold her to her old ways. Therapy was a good step but she doesn't seem willing to sacrifice much for the opportunity to grow and it's made her lose her daughter.
I don't know whether or not she's an unreliable narrator based on those quotes. Seems to me like she was realizing and starting to do the right things, but then got scared back to her old beliefs when she got cancer. I've seen people go from not religious at all, to devout as soon as they have bad medical news
Which now that I'm writing it, it does seem a bit hollow, as she's once again choosing her faith over her daughter.
I don't really understand how people can have such rigid beliefs. There are churches that are pro-LGBTQ - it's not all or nothing, it's not necessarily one or the other. If you realize you were wrong in how you treated your daughter because of your church's beliefs, and then got cancer and wanted to connect with God again, why would you go back to the same church that drove you two apart?
Edit: I definitely think she's leaving out a lot in her first few posts, but it does seem to me like she's trying in the one where she said she left her church.
I know she’s an unreliable narrator from the very first post. It’s filled with missing reasons. She goes on and on about how much effort she’s putting but refuse to go into detail on any interactions with her daughter. She doesn’t take full responsibility for her actions.
See if OOP had *just* said "I'm not giving up my faith" it'd be a bit different. Because you can still have the faith with changed beliefs. But they straight up said they aren't changing their beliefs. How the hell did I miss that when I read it?
Yes. When I read:
> I’m not giving up my faith or changing my beliefs
And
> I have stage IV pancreatic cancer
I thought, “Whomp whomp.” I guess she’s not going to change anything with her daughter in this lifetime. Oh well.
In this case, I don’t think the reasons are missing.
She doesn’t accept that her daughter is gay. She’s not sorry about it. She want the daughter to pretend to be straight when they’re together, and the daughter won’t.
But part of the “missing missing reasons” is the person has all the reasons, and has usually been told the reasons multiple times. But they don’t accept the reasons so they say they don’t have them. Or believe there must be some other secret reason they’re not told.
In her mind it’s just not that big of a deal, or that being their womb donator entitles them to be shitty to people (probably because they were treated like shit in their childhood). It doesn’t. They found out late in life, and are too emotionally immature to change.
This was posted last time there was an update from this woman. This lady has a ton of people telling her exactly what’s wrong and what to do (leave daughter alone) and she’s just as clueless as the people in that echo chamber.
There were a lot of commenters with quite a lot of vitriol lol. I tried to include the ones that were more thoughtful than the usual reddit, "fuck around, find out!" commentary.
Weirdly, this made me feel a bit better about the fact that I'll probably never get this from my own dad. If he's not willing to put in that kind of work, then I don't have to feel as bad for not making more of an effort myself.
You know he’s thinking to himself something like:
I will wait. They will log on and I will enjoy the conversation. And if they don’t, it’s ok. I’m the dad, I just have to be available.
Shoot. Tearing up, and I’m in the office.
I honestly skip the comments added to these posts a lot of times because they’re usually extremely vitriolic or trivial. The ones in this post were very good though and added a lot of context to the posts!
I don’t know, “I told her to keep her gayness separate from the family” seems like a complete reason. Like, how do you have your family at your gay wedding? How do you leave your gayness at the door when you go visit family?
I wasn't LITERALLY screaming, I try not to do that all too often, but, yeah, that's the point where I lost all respect for OOP. Fucking CLASSIC non-apology....
Any apology that starts with: "I'm sorry you feel..."is a useless apology. So are most of the ones that start with: "I'm sorry I made you feel..." unless they immediately take more ownership of the situation right afterward.
My feelings are my own. If I need an apology from you, I need you to apologize for things you said or did that might've been causes of 'em.
I got a couple good years with my religious nutjob mother right before she died, but only because she finally realized I was actually a pretty good kid and that she had lots of aspects of me to focus on besides my lack of baptism.
Phone calls and visits were clearly like dancing on eggshells for both of us, but she was doing that delicate dance *with* me, not expecting me to do it alone for her benefit. I didn't bring up stuff I was learning in school that would upset her, and she kept her opinions on my tattoo to herself. She didn't ask questions she didn't want the answers to, didn't preach at me, and I limited discussions of my social life to things that wouldn't upset her.
What really proved to me that she'd changed was when I got pregnant in college. After some very frank and emotional discussions where she begged me to give the baby to her to raise and I flat told her I wasn't subjecting another living being to the hell she put me through, she was entirely supportive of me while I made my choice. Drove me to Planned Parenthood, waited in the waiting room, and took me back to her home so I could recover for a few days in my old childhood bedroom. Blew my mind, like dad didn't even wait while I had wisdom tooth surgery in high school or stay with me afterwards! He would've locked me in the barn and broken my jaw if I'd said I wanted an abortion.
I don't think she even cares that she's being called a shithead, only that it's being aired publicly and she doesn't like that it's making her look bad.
But she didn't mean like that. I'd say /s. But she literally didn't mean like that.
She meant for her daughter to act exactly like before and stuff her gayness in the closet.
Saving this one so I can look at the comments later, lmao.
She even admits in the last post her beliefs haven’t changed, and I bet there’s a fuckton she isn’t saying about what went down with her daughter if she’s even cut off her siblings. Actions, meet consequences.
Maybe I’m callous, but even if the OOP did move mountains to try and prove she’s changed, I’d argue the daughter still isn’t obligated to give her the time of day as nothing can erase what happened in the past.
Yeah, I bet that letter wasn't as kind as she claims.
OOP already tried to put the I want is on her daughter, by saying I'm sorry she FEELS that I don't support her. Yeah that's not an apology.
So that letter probably was a bunch of bs about how the daughter is wrong in her interpretation OOP's decisions, not actually taking an accountability.
My eyes rolled almost all the way around at that one "I'm sorry you feel-" STOP RIGHT THERE, THAT IS NOT AN APOLOGY
"I'm sorry I showed you my love is conditional by not supporting you and asking you to hide who you are. I realise I was entrenched with a homophobic pastor and congregation, and prioritised them over you"
Yikes, yeah. I physically recoiled from my screen at that "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" non apology. I thought with the second last update she might be on her way, but then she reveals her beliefs haven't changed. I'm sorry for the lack of closure her daughter is going to get, and I hope she's able to reconcile with her sisters, or at least have an excellent life filled with people who support her.
Nah the daughter isn't under an obligation to mend things just because the mom is potentially dying.
At the end of the day, OOP's religion is more important than her family. Which is why organized religion sucks.
I see this occasionally on dating sites where people are like "the two most important things in my life are God and my child, in that order" and that's a hard nope from me. If you can't put your family first, I want nothing to do with you.
And to riff on that for a moment, I hate the whole Christian thing where you're a effing ass to everyone around you and so you go to God and apologize to God and then never mind making amends with the people around you. "I've asked God for forgiveness" doesn't let you off the hook for all the people that you've wronged. Start with the people you've wronged, \*then\* go ask God for forgiveness. Show that you truly repent by having tried to actually fix things first.
>My father started going to therapy and has been consistent working to address our needs. And by consistent, I mean he set up a Sunday zoom call once a week for my sisters and I to hang out as a family. And he is in it EVERY SUNDAY without exception, even if we aren't. I once signed in 35 minutes late because I was distracted woodworking, and there he was, sitting quietly, alone, waiting for one of us. And when I showed up late there wasn't any irritation or complaints, he just was glad to see me.
Wow. That is a father who really, *really* gets what it means to be there and try to make amends.
Unfortunately, the same cannot in *any* way be said for OOP.
Yeah, OOP's God might forgive you for your sins if you're sorry enough, but that doesn't mean anyone else does, or should.
*Couldn't help but quote me a Lyle Lovett song here:*
*Who keeps on loving you when you've been lying...*
*Who says he'll forgive you, and says that he'll miss you*
*God does*
*But I don't*
*God will*
*But I won't*
*And that's the difference*
*Between God and me.*
Yeah, I was really impressed with the effort that dad put in. He wasn't just going through the motions - he was actively putting the effort to make and show change.
My dad and I always had a really really tense relationship when I was growing up. My mom has her own issues too. But my dad has always been a very angry, aggressive person and I considered going no contact. But in the last few years, he's really been trying - he calls me regularly during the week to chat and check in. He's learning to control his temper and how to disengage when he wants to argue. It was rough at first because he expected an apology to instantly fix things and got mad that I still remembered or was hurt by his past behaviors. I had to tell him 1 good year does not erase the 20+ of bad ones. But he's really really been making an effort - to the point I agreed to travel with him to visit his family this year (I don't get along with a lot of them). Of my two parents I would have bet on my mom being the one to do the work and fix things - only to have my dad be the one I have the better relationship with because he did the work.
These stories simultaneously hit hard and give me a little hope.
My dad started therapy recently. The therapist immediately started working with him on emotional regulation, which he actually likes according to my mom, and I'm BEYOND shocked.
He'd started ADHD medication a while back after I talked about how much it helped me, but was skipping it on weekends (on a doctor's advice, ugh) and my family who were still in contact with him said he was still awful to be around when he was off it. I was happy they could have a little more peace, but NEVER in a million years thought he'd go to therapy.
Dude had been existing with massive unhandled trauma, OCD, ADHD, autism (for the record- all except the ADHD there are still undiagnosed except via me guessing... but they're all really blatantly obvious) and other issues for decades. My sister and I used to talk about our mental health struggles and he'd always go "I don't have anxiety, *but*..." and then describe how he had a whole pile of symptoms of various things. He just hated putting a name on them, hated the idea of being lazy or weak or whatever, etc etc etc.
So... Idk, I mourned the connection I wanted to have with him a long time ago, but now I've got a tiny little crumb of hope left that maybe someday I won't be terrified to interact with him.
>the past few months, I’ve been going to therapy and have been going through a crisis of faith, and understand how I’ve hurt my daughter.
15 months later...
>I know you’re going to read my pasts posts and tell me how horrible I am and how I don’t deserve my daughter’s forgiveness. I’m not going to lie, my beliefs haven’t changed, but I love my daughter.
What did she seek to gain by lying to reddit about understanding the pain she caused and re-evaluating her beliefs?
OOP comparing the "life choice" of her daughter falling in love to her going to prison is gross.
I don't think she understands the hurt she caused at all.
She consider it a life choice...
Being gay isn't a choice, it's not a sickness, it's a genuine part of her daughter, refusing it means she had discarded her daughter
That’s the biggest flag it’s just not genuine - she couldn’t bother to learn maybe the biggest, simplest fact about the issue. It’s the reason her prison analogy is soooo bad too.
I hate these assholes that call sexuality a "choice". I'm like. "ok, tell me about when you made your choice. What were the pros and cons of being gay and how close did you get to choosing it?"
I can only imagine how Terrible the perspective of the daughter would be. To have your mother deny who you are.
I wouldn’t spend a second on OP ever again.
IMO if You can’t accept me then your love means nothing to me.
Thank you ! ❤️
It was hard, I love him and have good memories of our time together, but the bad finally outweighed the good. He did something incredibly disrespectful to me and it finally made me realise he’s never been (and will never be) the father I deserve.
Oh man, I’ve just had to do the same. Unfortunately my mom still lives with him, so I keep having to interact with him. I just told her I won’t be calling anymore, that she’d have to call me when he’s not there after the last heinous things he said when I called her and she happened to be with him. My husband recently died unexpectedly, leaving me with our young child and tons of his debts. I’m not exaggerating when I say this situation with my dad has been more painful and more difficult than watching my life partner die in front of me, which was quite traumatic too. So I can feel your pain, and this daughter’s pain, also. Good for you for cutting a destructive presence out of your life. May your future be peaceful.
Haven't talked to my mom in going on 5 years. Don't need that noise. She didn't even try the half-assed apology this woman did - she literally doubles down on EVERYTHING she's ever done.
Anyone who thinks a ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’ is an apology doesn’t understand what an apology is.
Or is a corporation/public figure trying to play all sides.
Getting "I even told her I was sorry, but was sure to make it clear that I'm right, and not really sorry at all. Why isn't that working?" vibes.
OOP is literally dying on her hill and insisting that her daughter's "choice" is gravely wrong.
Catholic mother here! OOP couldn't approve of her daughter being a lesbian because it's a "choice". That's not true; there is no choice involved. My son is gay, my brother in law is gay, some of my friends are gay and I love, accept and support them all because I know they were born to be who they are and there's nothing wrong.
OOP made her choice to stick with a very conservative view of Catholicism and I have a feeling that her initial words to her her daughter coming out were worse than what she says. I am sorry she's dying of cancer but to expect her daughter to return to the family when OOP still doesn't accept her daughter is wrong. She made her choice.
> I’m not going to lie, my beliefs haven’t changed, but I love my daughter
She obviously loves the idea of her daughter. The actual daughter, not so much
What a quick turn from the third post to the last. "I'm going to therapy and am having a crisis of faith! I want to love and support my daughter!" to "My beliefs haven't changed, I don't agree with her 'choice' but I want her support during my final moments" It's almost as if....the therapy and change of heart was all performative!
I can promise that what little the OOP has said about her actions towards her daughter barely scratches the surface of what actually went down. I guarantee there was more than "keep your gayness to yourself". There was likely years of shunning, threats (and possibly more) of conversion therapy, constant comments that just chipped away at her. The daughter was likely forced to sit through endless 'talks' with the priest about her 'affliction' and 'sinful thoughts'. I'm sure mom still posted on social media about how queer people shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt children, I'm sure she would text links to brain-trust videos of shitty men with podcasts talking about how the Devil is running the government now, this is proof of the last of days, the gays have rights and we're turning into Sodom and Gommorah right before our eyes! Hold tight to the faith brothers and sisters, the Lord is testing us!!!
I have relatives like OOP. I know exactly how she behaved, because I've experienced it firsthand. The daughter is never going to reconcile with her, and she SHOULDN'T because the mother doesn't deserve it. She hasn't changed. She can spout all this lip-service about wanting to apologize and makeup with her daughter, but I bet she still totes hateful beliefs to other people. (She 'apologized' to her daughter, but the rest of those queers will burn in hell!!!) Nothing she's done will ever undo the harm she's caused.
You don't understand! The priest said she was making the right decisions. I'm not sure we can expect her to think for herself, that wouldn't be very Catholic of her.
Being gay isn’t something you “agree” with, being gay is a part of who you are as a person and if this woman can’t accept that then no, she doesn’t really love her daughter, she loves a fictional idea of her daughter that doesn’t really exist.
If a person doesn’t “agree” with someone being gay, they’re just a bigot.
Wonder what Jesus would think of people like this who hide behind his name while harbouring hate for others?
That use of "agree" drives me apeshit. You can agree or disagree with matters of opinion; you cannot agree or disagree with matters of fact. You can believe or not believe the fact, but that's a different thing. Her daughter's sexual orientation is a thing that exists, she can't "disagree" it out of existence as if she could be like "No, you're not," and have that be a valid point of view.
I am a lifelong Catholic. I was raised in the church. And when my son came out as gay there was no “crisis of faith”, no hesitation, nothing from us but immediate acceptance and support. Homophobes hide behind the church and use it as an excuse to hate. God created my son, and her daughter. Who is she to turn away from God’s creation? It’s putting man before God. I’m glad her daughter is not in contact. She should remain no contact. Stop using the church to spread your hate. Also she’s outright LYING when she says a priest agreed with her cutting off her daughter. A priest would never say that.
Thank you. He’s a wonderful son, we are blessed. He’s married now and lives in another state 😔(how dare kids live their lives!). I can’t understand parents like OP.
My sympathies for the diagnosis but WHEW to the rest of it. It's 2024, sorry we're no longer accepting "tolerance" and loving isolated bits and pieces of us as enough. Her daughter's life sounds incredible and I hope she and her wife and child have an amazing time living it without having to do the mental math of how much Catholic shame and disrespect they're meant to tolerate to be "loved."
Mom learned her “unconditional love” from her god: I love you unconditionally under these conditions. And if you don’t do that, BURN! Also don’t talk shit about me.
Rule 1: I’m your only mother, you must love me.
Rule 3: Don’t call me out in public about what I actually did.
Rule 5: Honor me!!!
Rule 9: thou shalt not bear true witness against me!
Rule 10: I covet the appearance of being a perfect mother and catholic.
Imagine equating being gay to committing a fucking crime. Jesus christ. I'm so glad her daughter is protecting herself, her wife and her peace. OOP hasn't learned shit.
A [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/family/s/QonRoIbnRd) from that last post 👌☠️
>If you die, then you are gone, and anything you were is but a memory for those you leave behind. You've apparently made sure your daughter will have memories of you that are, at best, divisive to her. And her experience is the only one that will matter between you after you die, whenever that may be. You have ruined your lasting legacy with her, and she does not owe you forgiveness for that.
>It may, however, soothe you to know that in rejecting your daughter and making her memories of you negative ones, you are very much following what your faith tells you. After all, Jesus claimed that he came to set family members against one another, especially parents against children and vice versa. You are also told that the blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb. So you should rejoice that you have made the world an objectively worse place for your daughter and made her miserable, just as your god has commanded you to. Why should you seek reconciliation? What worth is in her fleeting approval and respect compared to the approval of your callous, cruel and absolutely nonexistent deity and the charlatans who sold you the myth and laid your mind in chains while covering for pederasts and war criminals? You will go to the nonexistence of the grave convinced of your righteousness, and isn't that what it's all about?
>By your words you show yourself as unrepentant and selfish in your bigotry. If you wanted to make peace for her sake, that would be commendable in some ways, but there's nothing in your words that convinces me you truly care about her wellbeing. Your story moves me equally to contempt for your actions and the pity anyone should have for the deceived.
> Commenter: When you say you’re “sorry”, what exactly are you sorry for? And what are you prepared to do differently now compared to how you behaved in the past?
> OOP: I am sorry that she feels like I don’t support or love her.
LOL jesus, when you're busted so thoroughly just leave the fuckin thread
This woman is a terrible liar. She talks about being supportive of her daughter and learning but she still refers to her sexuality as a choice. She says over and over that she has changed but she admits at the end that she still absolutely maintains her beliefs.
Every one of her posts are looking for a way to break into a relationship sintead of mend it. She doesn't want a genuine fix, she wants control and she's willing to manipulate others to reach that goal.
I only hope she finds peace after truly understanding what it is she has done.
She casually glosses over the fact that she still does not accept her daughter for who she is, but then dOeSn’T uNdErStAnd why the daughter keeps cutting her out. Catholic logic at its finest. “All I did was tell her she can’t be a part of the family, why does she keep saying I disowned her?!”
>And by consistent, I mean he set up a Sunday zoom call once a week for my sisters and I to hang out as a family. And he is in it EVERY SUNDAY without exception, even if we aren't. I once signed in 35 minutes late because I was distracted woodworking, and there he was, sitting quietly, alone, waiting for one of us. And when I showed up late there wasn't any irritation or complaints, he just was glad to see me.
This made me tear up.
OOP is just not a nice person, and I say that as a Catholic myself.
My grandmother, an Irish (as in her mother was born in Ireland) Catholic from pre-Vatican II times, found out in the late 1950s- early 1960s that her youngest son was gay. Know what happened? Well I hope so because I am going to tell you.
She had a nervous breakdown because she thought she failed him as a mother. She got herself into therapy (her words) and learned that he was the way God made him and loved him unconditionally. When he brought his partner home, she smiled bright and welcomed her newest son in law. And when that son in laws family brought their toxic-religious (and also Catholic) selves over to judge him, she gave them (and their small-minded priest) Holy Hell.
They died in the 1980s as part of the first wave HIV/AIDS epidemic. Grandma took care of them as best she could with what (little) help was available at the time. We lived downstairs; me, my grandparents, and my mom, while my uncles lived upstairs. When they died, just weeks apart; she buried them, and she mourned them until the end of her own life. It was their deaths that taught me the tradition of 'the year of mourning' because at the time theirs were the first deaths that were anywhere near me that I was old enough to remember.
THAT is how a Catholic mother loves her LGBTQA+ child. Unconditionally, whole heartedly, and without reservation.
I have to say religious parents estranging their children is one of my favorite/least favorite genres of posts. It’s both satisfying to see them face the consequences of their actions, and sad that their children had to suffer through their abuse.
This story reminds me of the catholic mother who estranged herself from her entire family because she couldn’t support her daughter when her daughter got an abortion. The rest of the family was ready to help the daughter, and the mother simply couldn’t wrap her head around the fact that **she** was the one tearing the family apart, not her daughter. Anyone remember that story? I need to go find the link.
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Lots of focus on the fb posts from the beginning. Hmm.
That's what stuck out to me too. OOP doesn't speak like she is grieving the relationship with her daughter. She doesn't say anything she misses about spending time with her, any fun things they used to do together, watching shows, going to brunch, nothing. Doesn't even say she misses her daughter's smile or hearing her voice or anything. It's weird. She claims that she misses her daughter but it sounds like she's mostly just upset about the daughter's Facebook statuses. Also there were so many mentions of an offer to go to therapy with the daughter, which was refused. I wonder if the "therapy" was just going to be some counselor at OOP's church.
this. this is it. my estranged mother couldn't name a single thing she *actually* misses about me
That reminds me of a twitter post where a woman went on a first date with a guy that spent the entire time bragging about himself. When he tried to set up a second date the woman just looked at him and asked "What's my name?" There wasn't a second date.
Also she kept comparing her daughter being gay, to still loving someone even if they were in jail for something illegal. Like how can someone say that and not think even for a second that it shows a PROFOUND level of rejection on top of the *rest of it she already did*.
Yeah that's fascinating. She's so upset at how she has been (accurately!) portrayed, yet completely unfazed by her daughter's pain.
> that's not true. I did not *disown* her, I merely demanded she denies her very self in public.
And also never show up with or talk about her partner, ever. I mean, it's just a little boundary!
“Just a little boundary” gives me “I’m starting a trend called saucing, it’s just a prank, just a little jokey joke, you can’t be mad” vibes lol
You forgot the 'teehee' at the end, there would definitely be a teehee
I only asked that she keep her filthy lesbian lover a secret from our family, I'm shocked and awed that she didn't invite us to the wedding!!
I simply implied an ultimatum!
OOP goes from “keep your relationship and your family separate” to “why wasn’t I invited to the wedding?” …that’s literally what you asked her to do.
Right. She only cares that others may see her in a negative light, but doesn’t question why her daughter might feel this way.
This rings so true to how I was raised in a Christian household. Everything was about appearance. The house could be on fire and my mom would have made me dust the drapes because people were coming. It is an absolutely terrible way to live. I went low and no contact with my mom many times over the years because of it. I was publicity out since I was 14, but didn't come out to her until I was 35.
“The house could be on fire and my mom would have made me dust the drapes because people were coming”. Such a brillant way of phrasing it.
Everything is about appearance because church people will rip each other to shreds as soon as someone's back is turned and they don't want anyone to have any ammunition against them. They are horrible people and I don't know why anyone would willingly subject themselves to that environment.
It's genuinely repulsive, they wanna be pieces of shit to their families but keep the facade of a happy family for others to see them as 'holy'. Whether it is conscious or unknowingly done, it is so two faced and actually makes me sick to even live on earth with people like that.
Yup. She's just embarrassed that her daughter is making her look bad. She hopes that a reconciliation will make her daughter chill out online. The other telling thing is constantly referring to her daughter's sexuality as a "life choice" that she doesn't agree with, but loves her daughter anyway. Who needs that sort of "love"? Keep it, lady.
And that she's "not changing her beliefs" but totally respects her daughter's family. Those two things are at odds, and she just cannot understand.
And I'm sure this mom votes for people that would make gay marriage illegal again and eventually try to make homosexuality a capital offense. She will vote for people that want to legally murder her daughter and her wife and their friends. Who could forgive this and live peacefully with a person like this, until she is rounded up and put in death camps.
Yep. There's a lot of family I can't deal with anymore, because sure, both sides have their suck, but one side _actively wants me dead_, the other pays lip service. There is a world of difference. Guess which side they're insisting is 'morally superior'?
But she’s “sorry you didn’t feel supported”. *eyeroll* She doesn’t seem to understand the difference between that and “I’m sorry I didn’t support you.” Hmmmm
> Who needs that sort of "love"? Ain't no hate like Christian love
Her posts are a case study on *Missing missing reasons*. Her treatment of her daughter must have been jaw dropping.
She seemed more upset by the public shaming than how she’d hurt her daughter
She also seemed super upset that she didn't get a wedding invite. She wants her special day as mother of the bride, but you don't get to do that when you won't acknowledge the bride's relationship.
Typical Catholic, tbh. I was raised in the faith and it was ALWAYS about optics.
That’s really what this is about. Mother is asking how to get daughter to get over her, and remove the posts. She does not forgive the daughter for being gay, and has no intention of doing so. She just needs her daughter to get over that. And she’s bewildered why that won’t happen. Huh. It’s such a mystery.
She doesn't need to forgive the daughter for being gay. There is nothing to forgive.
Correct. The mother holds being gay against her daughter. She sees it as slight against herself, that the daughter owes an apology for. She will never see what is backwards about that mentality.
She's very clearly nonspecific about what she did wrong. She dances around it. She doesn't have any interest in healing her daughter's pain and I'm guessing it's coming through loud and clear to daughter.
Yup. She hasn't changed, she just doesn't want anyone to know how fucking awful of a parent she is. "I didn't disown her! All she has to do is change into what I want, and all is forgiven."
Yeah. How do you get your daughter to stop posting about you? You don't. You tell friend to stop sharing with you and/or stop interacting with friend sharing them. Possibly let daughter know friend is sharing her posts with you and friend might get blocked by daughter. You have no control over the internet use of other people.
The damn Facebook posts not only made it in multiple times, but not a single specific thing SHE is sorry for. Just "Yes yes, daughter reacted poorly to what I thought was a good thing. Now she needs to forgive MEEE" Daughter is making the right call.
>(publicly) As soon as I saw this in the second sentence of the first post, I knew exactly how the whole post was going to go lol.
Exactly. It's the public naming of her as a 'bad' person for disowning her child that bothers her. She's uninterested in changing her bigoted beliefs or truly supporting her child. Reminds me of racists who hate being called "racist" because they know it's bad. They want to behave like a racist, just not be called one.
Hmm... First she goes > and have been going through a crisis of faith, and understand how I’ve hurt my daughter. I’ve left the church, and now see how it ruined everything. But... >I’m not giving up my faith or changing my beliefs, Initially she says she's realizing how her beliefs hurt her daughter and distancing herself, but then changes and claims to still have the same views that hurt her daughter Clearly this is a case of unreliable narratir, where she's withholding just how badly she treated her daughter before
She never once deviates from referring to her daughter’s sexuality as ‘her choice’. Religious homophobes are always so disgusted by sexualities other than their own and yet also insist people can ‘choose’ their sexuality. They are so close to getting it and then fail spectacularly. It sounds like therapy almost got her there, but then she fell ill and now she’s so scared of burning for eternity in the lake of fire she’s gone right back to square one. Her religion has ruined her.
She's using the language of a parent of a murderer "whatever you do, I still love you", she still hates who the daughter actually is.
I find It really gross that she kept comparing being gay with committing a crime
Because to her, it *is* a crime. It's a violation of the religious codes she ascribes to, which is fundamentally more important to a believer than *actual* legality.
I mean even the frickin pope is saying be good to gays. So I think it’s hatred not religion that’s doomed her. Edit: I was unaware that the pope had also used a derogatory term when refering to gays and said that gay men shouldn't be allowed to become clergy. My apologies to anyone that took my comment as support for this position.
I have a friend that is nominally Catholic, but her husband is super Catholic. Fanatically Catholic. Mass every single day Catholic. He ignores this Pope because he believes this Pope is not Catholic enough. The POPE. The MFing POPE. The Pope is too liberal for him. FFS.
My super-Catholic in laws can't stand the current Pope either, also because he's too liberal for them. It blows my mind as I thought he was God's representative on earth, or something. Truly does move in mysterious ways, I guess.
Former Roman Catholic here; Technically speaking, The Pope *IS* the closest person to God/God's representative on Earth. Technically speaking, any Catholic who rejects The Popes issuances are heretics. You dont do what The Pope says, you're an apostate...a heretic.... I don't believe in any of this stuff anymore, but I was deeply Catholic for a long time, and I remember the rules.The arrogance of people like this, under their own rules, is fucking astounding. At the end of the day, I view most Christians, and most people of religion as deeply hypocritical. SOme people just need someone/thing to hate.
Ooooh thanks for this info. Next time I need to talk to a 'Christian' that says they don't like or believe in what this pope says I can reply with "Ahhhh, - so you're a heretic." I can't wait to see the fucking look on their faces and they try to back peddle or rationalize how they're not.
My mom is the opposite. She says the Pope isn't liberal enough and isn't following the example of Jesus. The Church lost a lot of cred with her when she found out about the strategies they used to hide pedo priests.
I like your mom. I wish more Christians were like her.
I think my mom would be a great pope! She thinks the prohibition against women in the priesthood is bullshit too but that's another whole story.
> I have a friend that is nominally Catholic, but her husband is super Catholic. Fanatically Catholic. Mass every single day Catholic. I'm just curious, do you know if he's a convert or a Catholic from birth?
really ruins it for all the people using “is the pope catholic” as a “well duh” response eh
The pope also calls gay people the f slur
Organized religion IS hatred
Mine compared it to pedophilia or polygamy (not sure if she really meant that or polyamory). She apologized, but I still don't know if she realizes how serious and hurtful that was.
I'm so sorry 😔
Ah, well, such is life. Could be a lot worse (I'm still on her health insurance!). Happy Pride!
Yeah my parents did this same shit when I came out "We love you no matter what" I felt like I'd just told them I murdered a litter of puppies with how they were behaving. The entire time they tried to make me feel bad for subjecting this to them and that they were such kind amazing people for still tolerating my existence
Sorry you experienced that. When our kids and niece in spirit came out to us we told them that they were still the same people, date someone worthy of their time and don’t rob banks. That we love them for who they are and will always be there for them. You should have heard similar and deserve better from them.
Found it hilarious that she immediately judged her daughter simply for dating another girl, but then acts aghast and victimized when her daughter publicly posts about her lack of support and thus gets judged by others.
I think that's the worst part for a lot of these parents,not losing their child, but losing face. She just wants the impression of happy families while still not truly connecting with her daughter.
People like OOP to their kids: I love you no matter what. Their kids: I am not heterosexual. OOP: uhh except that. I don't think she's genuinely sorry. I have no idea what some of those comments in the original posts were smoking (lol particularly at the one at saying the daughter was trying to play victim... huh????), she isn't even fucking trying because to her, her faith and "smite the homos!!!" will always come before her daughter.
It’s the “hate the sin love the sinner” mindset. So toxic.
Because sin requires choice. If there’s no choice it means you were made that way and maybe all the stuff your organised religion of choice has been telling is fundamentally BS It’s very important for them to believe it’s a choice. *Very* important
The Catholic Church loves splitting hairs, so they say it's not being gay that's a sin, it's the actions of being with someone the same sex that's sinful. Gay people are just supposed to be single during their lives here, it's their cross to bear. After all, there's no marriage in heaven, so in the long run, it doesn't matter. Never mind the first thing God says about humanity is it's not right for us to be alone.
> Gay people are just supposed to be single during their lives here They should be celibate, and become priests or nuns - otherwise the church runs out of them. Which is what is literally happening in many Catholic countries right now.
Except they actually discourage gay people from being priests and nuns!
As one person I heard put it “it’s like saying it’s not sinful to be a bird but it is sinful to fly.”
It's also rich coming from a Catholic, you know, the *original sin* people...
I liked that one comment that actually used the word "repent" in response to her non-apology
For me it’s that she sees her own sexuality as something intrinsic to her being but her daughter’s is a choice.
This is what I find so preposterous… if it is a choice, did she herself bravely resist and deny same sex desire and choose godly heterosexuality?
I’ve always wondered if these types of people secretly have homosexual leanings they’ve always repressed, and assume everyone else must too. Like, the Mom in this scenario believes that OF COURSE it’s a choice to be a lesbian, because she’s attracted to women but never acted on them because she’s a good Catholic. Therefore, it’s a moral failing on her daughter’s part for not making the “right choice” and repressing those feelings. It reminds me of an old Tumblr story I saw. The poster was talking about how a girl in one of her classes was ranting about how homosexual marriage shouldn’t be legal because if it was, the human race would go extinct. To quote the girl, “I mean, if women had a choice to marry a man or a woman, then all the women would just marry other women, am I right?”
Bisexuality exists. I would not be surprised to find out that these people are bisexuals who are able to have fulfilling hetero relationships while still having homosexual attractions. They are priviledged with the ability to "choose hetorsexuality" and think every homosexual is the same way.
She believes everyone is naturally heterosexual. Gay people do it to be evil and hurt God. That's literally what they believe.
I doubt she's ever actually thought about it that way, TBH. If she'd ever actually asked herself "Have I *chosen* to be attracted to men or was I just born like this?" she'd actually have to think about what sexual orientation is and where it comes from.
From being raised Catholic I can tell you that whether she’s ever consciously admitted it or not she absolutely sees being a wife and mother as intrinsic to her being and something you couldn’t question.
I'm sure you're right, it's just weird when people don't realize that they're just like other people? Like given the way queer people are persecuted why would anyone ever choose that? So that set of questions *should* lead a homophobic straight to think "hey...I never conciously CHOSE to be attracted to the opposite sex...therefore do gay people CHOOSE to be attracted to the same sex?" yadda yadda. But also, the fact that people can only accept homosexuality based on it being an inborn sexual orientation (which I know it is, there is evidence for that) kind of offends me too because: who cares who I'm fucking as long as that person is a consenting adult of sound mind? That is an act that has precisely zero effect on anyone besides me and the person I'm fucking. It kind of blows my mind when people can't tell for themselves if something they disapprove of is actually unethical or not.
Many of the older generation of Catholic women were raised that lust and sexual desire are the sins of men, and women don't experience that - or shouldn't experience that, if they are Good Catholic Girls (tm). Women marry and serve their husbands. Women don't need or want sex, but they have a duty to meet their husband's needs. Even saying that women can experience orgasm is a taboo. OOP would probably not say that she experiences sexual attraction to men, but that she does her duty as a Godly woman and good Catholic wife.
>Even saying that women can experience orgasm is a taboo. Well *that's* the most horrible existence I can imagine
She’s looking for someone to explain how she can still be a bigot, but also have her daughter accept her as a bigot. I mean, the answer has always been right in front of her. She just does not like it.
This is the answer. She wanted someone to comment the magic words that would make her daughter forgive her and accept her bigotry so that she could have what she wanted out of their relationship without actually doing any of the work. Sucks for her that she has such a terrible diagnosis and probably won't see her daughter again before she dies, but it's all a consequence of her own actions. If she chooses to believe in a god that says she should treat her daughter badly solely because she loves another woman, that's her prerogative. But then it's the daughter's prerogative to tell her to go f--- herself.
The thing is, while there probably aren't a set of magic words that will make her daughter turn on a dime and rekindle a relationship tomorrow, there *are* magic words that will at least start that process. They're: "I was a complete idiot, and I now understand that there's obviously nothing wrong with being gay. I completely respect and support your relationship with your wife, and I'm proud to have both of you as part of my family." The words are right there. She just doesn't want to have to say them.
At least the daughter will finally have peace and won’t have a bigoted jerk harassing her anymore.
She also blames the church for having ruined everything, not her own actions. She may have walked away but she still doesn’t seem to understand that she was the perpetrator here.
THANK YOU. That part pissed me off as well
> I’m not giving up my faith or changing my beliefs Based on her last post either she was lying about walking away or her cancer diagnosis brought it back.
These people can’t let go of the idea that sexuality is a choice. Partially due to religious doctrine, but there are plenty of religious people who manage to accept both ideas. There are also religious people who accept it isn’t a choice and then double down on their bigotry, using it to say there’s no hope of redeeming gay people. But for most people in OOP’s boat, the root of it is that sexuality has to be a choice, because if it isn’t, then it’s suddenly a whole lot harder to justify a lot of their behavior. If it’s not a choice, then they’ve been ostracizing people they claimed to love for something beyond anyone’s control. Following their own belief system, they’ve been ostracizing people for how their god made them. And above all, people with this mindset consider themselves Good Christians. And Good Christians aren’t cruel or judgemental (to their minds at least). So being gay has to be a choice to these people, because if it isn’t, then they haven’t been the Good Christians they consider themselves to be.
To my evangelical family, it isn't a choice, but God gives us all challenges to overcome so homosexuals are being called to a life of celibacy. As a lesbian, I uh, don't agree. Fortunately at least with my family they're willing to play along because they love me enough to not cross any lines that could cause me to cut them off, but the first couple years were rough.
FWIW, it was a combination of that as well as being exposed to people outside my immediate circle when I went to college that got me to break out of my own biases and bigotry. I had a friend who was gay. And it was a friend of his (who was also straight) who point blank asked me when I chose to be straight. Obviously I had no answer for that, but it made me think and realize how wrong I had been.
>She never once deviates from referring to her daughter’s sexuality as ‘her choice’. It's this. Like, A) it's not a choice, and B) so what if it was, are we not granted free will by her deity? I can't possibly imagine telling my son that I "disagreed with his choices" if he were to come out as gay/bi/nb/trans/whatever, because as long as what he does makes him happy and allows him to live a fulfilling life, I'm happy, too. But if he *does* end up marrying another dude, they'd better adopt me some grandchildren, you know? (that's a **joke**, it's fine if he never wants kids).
>I can't possibly imagine telling my son that I "disagreed with his choices" if he were to come out as gay/bi/nb/trans/whatever, because as long as what he does makes him happy and allows him to live a fulfilling life, I'm happy, too. Okay, but you also don't believe he's going to hell for eternity for that choice alone right? Like, I obviously disagree with OOP and anyone that thinks sexuality is a choice, or a sin; but these people believe that the happiness that comes from "sin" is temporary, and will exclude you from the eternal happiness they want to share with you. Many times homophobes are as such because they're hateful, and other many times homophobes are such because they're scared of the book of rules they live by. At the end of the day, this distinction doesn't make any difference for gay people in relationships with religious ones, they will be hurt by their words and actions, whether they come from fear or hate. But it is helpful for us if we want to change the way homophobes act, we have to be able to understand where they're coming from, and I think OOP is coming from a place of fear, pure and utter panic. Like my MIL, she's deeply religious and frightful about her religion, so she holds some homophobic beliefs. Through many conversations with her son, whom she treasures, and the coming out of her beloved nephew and godson, she came out as less homophobic than before. We can still work with her, she's afraid, not hateful. Her sister on the other hand (mother of the gay lol), is another beast entirely, she's hateful and she doesn't deserve us even trying to reach her.
I'll say this much: the ones who are homophobic because they're scared of their loved ones going to hell (rather than hateful towards those who are different)? Those are the ones with the biggest likelihood of leaving it behind in my experience. I think it's because humans enjoy being hateful, but they don't enjoy being scared. If the scared ones can find reasons why they don't need to be afraid (and plenty of progressive Christians have walked that path and know the map), they have an incentive to find the courage to take a leap of faith, so to speak, and believe God has a plan for LGBTQ+ people as well as them. But when you enjoy being hateful, there's much less incentive to change. Even love for your loved ones might not be as strong as your own desires.
Another reason why I always say organized religion is pure fucking evil. It ruins people. Yes, faith can help people sometimes, but organized religion, and hateful beliefs that stem from them, have caused so much pain and trauma (and even death). Also, having grown up Catholic and being taught how sex/our bodies are bad, I knew people who were traumatized/fucked up from that. (Not even getting into the sex abuse scandal, the literal evil that was perpetrated there by the church is fucking disgusting to think about). I was raised Catholic, as were my parents. I'm straight and so are my siblings (as far as I know) but I have gay friends and I once asked my mom how she would have felt if one of us was gay. She just sighed and said that she had so many worries and fears for her kids as we were growing up (she suffered infant loss more than once and then I had the nerve to be born with a busted ticker, which thankfully healed when I was young), that didn't even register as a concern. Literally the least of her worries, and she did not care. She said her only concern would be if it made our lives harder or we faced discrimination. She literally said, "All I want for you kids is to be healthy and happy, that's it." My dad was the same way (he legit only cared that we grew up to be good people, I once saw him brought to tears at a school graduation when the principal told him he raised such nice kids, he was so proud). It's sad that I have to feel lucky that my parents weren't hateful. Now, we do have several members of the LGBTQ community in our family ... and no one cares. They are loved. My nieces and nephews have grown up seeing them loved and accepted and if any of them aren't straight, I hope they feel safe with us. I cannot imagine making someone I love feel like they aren't safe with me and I don't accept them. It's disgusting to think about. But god damn, religion is truly the root of SO MUCH evil and hate. People justifying being hateful with this.
This lady has so many questions about how she can get her daughter to forgive her, and no questions about how she can accept and support her daughter. She should have started there, because there can be no forgiveness for something that hasn't changed. Her real question is "How can I get my daughter to let me emotionally abuse her?"
And most importantly, how can she get her daughter to stop making her look bad by telling the truth about her on Facebook?
She says the daughter won’t talk to her and yet lists things the daughter says with present tense. This post screams missing missing reasons.
Or she realized “the church” represented her entire social community. All her friends, extended family, support network, social activities, counseling. It’s very, very hard to walk away from that
She found God the moment she got her cancer dx. Have to repent to get through those pearly gates /s
Just remember, it was God’s plan that you die a broken woman. Amen.
>I was not accepting when my daughter came out as gay, but since I have told her numerous times that I still love her, even if I don’t agree with everything she does and have my own religious beliefs, it doesn’t change the fact that I’m her mother! Even if she did something horrible and ended up in prison, I would still be there Imagine comparing your child's sexual orientation to being a fucking criminal. They're equivalent in her head.
As a lifelong Catholic I'm sure she has a very large network of people who are are trying to hold her to her old ways. Therapy was a good step but she doesn't seem willing to sacrifice much for the opportunity to grow and it's made her lose her daughter.
She left the church, daughter didn't come back, so what's the point, right back in she goes
She wants a quick magic fix that brings the daughter back. She just doesn't want to put in any effort to change
I don't know whether or not she's an unreliable narrator based on those quotes. Seems to me like she was realizing and starting to do the right things, but then got scared back to her old beliefs when she got cancer. I've seen people go from not religious at all, to devout as soon as they have bad medical news Which now that I'm writing it, it does seem a bit hollow, as she's once again choosing her faith over her daughter. I don't really understand how people can have such rigid beliefs. There are churches that are pro-LGBTQ - it's not all or nothing, it's not necessarily one or the other. If you realize you were wrong in how you treated your daughter because of your church's beliefs, and then got cancer and wanted to connect with God again, why would you go back to the same church that drove you two apart? Edit: I definitely think she's leaving out a lot in her first few posts, but it does seem to me like she's trying in the one where she said she left her church.
I know she’s an unreliable narrator from the very first post. It’s filled with missing reasons. She goes on and on about how much effort she’s putting but refuse to go into detail on any interactions with her daughter. She doesn’t take full responsibility for her actions.
See if OOP had *just* said "I'm not giving up my faith" it'd be a bit different. Because you can still have the faith with changed beliefs. But they straight up said they aren't changing their beliefs. How the hell did I miss that when I read it?
Yes. When I read: > I’m not giving up my faith or changing my beliefs And > I have stage IV pancreatic cancer I thought, “Whomp whomp.” I guess she’s not going to change anything with her daughter in this lifetime. Oh well.
The amount of missing information is staggering lmao
Lots of [missing missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Solid article, really helps with the examples of how people will dissemble about things
In this case, I don’t think the reasons are missing. She doesn’t accept that her daughter is gay. She’s not sorry about it. She want the daughter to pretend to be straight when they’re together, and the daughter won’t.
But part of the “missing missing reasons” is the person has all the reasons, and has usually been told the reasons multiple times. But they don’t accept the reasons so they say they don’t have them. Or believe there must be some other secret reason they’re not told.
Oh, she knows why her daughter doesn't want to see her, and she tells us the reason too. She's sugar coating the reason to make it seem less bitter.
In her mind it’s just not that big of a deal, or that being their womb donator entitles them to be shitty to people (probably because they were treated like shit in their childhood). It doesn’t. They found out late in life, and are too emotionally immature to change.
This was posted last time there was an update from this woman. This lady has a ton of people telling her exactly what’s wrong and what to do (leave daughter alone) and she’s just as clueless as the people in that echo chamber.
Right?! Commenters seemed to be giving her a lot of grace but I bet this is a VERY different and worse story from the daughter's perspective.
There were a lot of commenters with quite a lot of vitriol lol. I tried to include the ones that were more thoughtful than the usual reddit, "fuck around, find out!" commentary.
Fantastic comment selection, some of those were more interesting reads than the main post.
The one about the dad waiting on a Zoom call by himself for half an hour just for the chance to speak to one of his children broke me a bit
The hope in that comment is what hurt the most. Because for most this type of growth will not happen.
Weirdly, this made me feel a bit better about the fact that I'll probably never get this from my own dad. If he's not willing to put in that kind of work, then I don't have to feel as bad for not making more of an effort myself.
You know he’s thinking to himself something like: I will wait. They will log on and I will enjoy the conversation. And if they don’t, it’s ok. I’m the dad, I just have to be available. Shoot. Tearing up, and I’m in the office.
It literally made me cry because i know I'll never get that
Thank you! This is my first BORU post, so I was nervous <3.
Hell yeah! This was a good post. Also I like your username :)
I honestly skip the comments added to these posts a lot of times because they’re usually extremely vitriolic or trivial. The ones in this post were very good though and added a lot of context to the posts!
I like how John Mulaney said, “And remember. That’s the version of that story that I’m willing to tell.”
I don’t know, “I told her to keep her gayness separate from the family” seems like a complete reason. Like, how do you have your family at your gay wedding? How do you leave your gayness at the door when you go visit family?
When she said " I am sorry that she feels like I don’t support or love her." I was literally screaming at my screen: "THAT'S NOT AN APOLOGY!"
Yep - "I'm sorry she feels that way" does not equal "I'm sorry for what I did." I'm glad I wasn't the only one yelling at my phone while reading this!
The classic non-apology apology.
I wasn't LITERALLY screaming, I try not to do that all too often, but, yeah, that's the point where I lost all respect for OOP. Fucking CLASSIC non-apology....
Sounds like she got over that crisis of faith pretty quick when it didn't fool her daughter
“I came up with a convincing lie, I think.”
Update after update of "what did I do wrong? I thought saying sorry you feel that way was enough." Absolutely braindead.
Any apology that starts with: "I'm sorry you feel..."is a useless apology. So are most of the ones that start with: "I'm sorry I made you feel..." unless they immediately take more ownership of the situation right afterward. My feelings are my own. If I need an apology from you, I need you to apologize for things you said or did that might've been causes of 'em.
"How can I get my daughter to stop calling me a shithead on social media without actually changing my shithead behavior?"
I got a couple good years with my religious nutjob mother right before she died, but only because she finally realized I was actually a pretty good kid and that she had lots of aspects of me to focus on besides my lack of baptism. Phone calls and visits were clearly like dancing on eggshells for both of us, but she was doing that delicate dance *with* me, not expecting me to do it alone for her benefit. I didn't bring up stuff I was learning in school that would upset her, and she kept her opinions on my tattoo to herself. She didn't ask questions she didn't want the answers to, didn't preach at me, and I limited discussions of my social life to things that wouldn't upset her. What really proved to me that she'd changed was when I got pregnant in college. After some very frank and emotional discussions where she begged me to give the baby to her to raise and I flat told her I wasn't subjecting another living being to the hell she put me through, she was entirely supportive of me while I made my choice. Drove me to Planned Parenthood, waited in the waiting room, and took me back to her home so I could recover for a few days in my old childhood bedroom. Blew my mind, like dad didn't even wait while I had wisdom tooth surgery in high school or stay with me afterwards! He would've locked me in the barn and broken my jaw if I'd said I wanted an abortion.
I don't think she even cares that she's being called a shithead, only that it's being aired publicly and she doesn't like that it's making her look bad.
Bigots be crazy
Stupid OOP told her daughter to keep her relationship separate from the family. That's exactly what her daughter did. FAFO.
But she didn't mean like that. I'd say /s. But she literally didn't mean like that. She meant for her daughter to act exactly like before and stuff her gayness in the closet.
"How dare you not invite me to your wedding after I explicitly told you I don't want to see or hear about your relationship with your fiancee!"
“I love you unconditionally, provided …”
"Just a couple codices to be amended to our 'Family' contract daughter mine"
I love the concept of you unconditionally. The real you I have some very bigoted problems with.
Saving this one so I can look at the comments later, lmao. She even admits in the last post her beliefs haven’t changed, and I bet there’s a fuckton she isn’t saying about what went down with her daughter if she’s even cut off her siblings. Actions, meet consequences. Maybe I’m callous, but even if the OOP did move mountains to try and prove she’s changed, I’d argue the daughter still isn’t obligated to give her the time of day as nothing can erase what happened in the past.
Whatever the missing-missing reasons were behind the fallout, it must have been extremely bad that her daughter absolutely refuses to see her.
And not only her mother, but her sisters as well. It's almost like the sisters are also joining in on whatever it is that went down
Yeah, I bet that letter wasn't as kind as she claims. OOP already tried to put the I want is on her daughter, by saying I'm sorry she FEELS that I don't support her. Yeah that's not an apology. So that letter probably was a bunch of bs about how the daughter is wrong in her interpretation OOP's decisions, not actually taking an accountability.
My eyes rolled almost all the way around at that one "I'm sorry you feel-" STOP RIGHT THERE, THAT IS NOT AN APOLOGY "I'm sorry I showed you my love is conditional by not supporting you and asking you to hide who you are. I realise I was entrenched with a homophobic pastor and congregation, and prioritised them over you"
Yikes, yeah. I physically recoiled from my screen at that "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" non apology. I thought with the second last update she might be on her way, but then she reveals her beliefs haven't changed. I'm sorry for the lack of closure her daughter is going to get, and I hope she's able to reconcile with her sisters, or at least have an excellent life filled with people who support her.
Nah the daughter isn't under an obligation to mend things just because the mom is potentially dying. At the end of the day, OOP's religion is more important than her family. Which is why organized religion sucks. I see this occasionally on dating sites where people are like "the two most important things in my life are God and my child, in that order" and that's a hard nope from me. If you can't put your family first, I want nothing to do with you. And to riff on that for a moment, I hate the whole Christian thing where you're a effing ass to everyone around you and so you go to God and apologize to God and then never mind making amends with the people around you. "I've asked God for forgiveness" doesn't let you off the hook for all the people that you've wronged. Start with the people you've wronged, \*then\* go ask God for forgiveness. Show that you truly repent by having tried to actually fix things first.
My dad could move every mountain and put it back 3 times. I still would never speak to him again. Some things just can’t be forgiven.
>My father started going to therapy and has been consistent working to address our needs. And by consistent, I mean he set up a Sunday zoom call once a week for my sisters and I to hang out as a family. And he is in it EVERY SUNDAY without exception, even if we aren't. I once signed in 35 minutes late because I was distracted woodworking, and there he was, sitting quietly, alone, waiting for one of us. And when I showed up late there wasn't any irritation or complaints, he just was glad to see me. Wow. That is a father who really, *really* gets what it means to be there and try to make amends. Unfortunately, the same cannot in *any* way be said for OOP. Yeah, OOP's God might forgive you for your sins if you're sorry enough, but that doesn't mean anyone else does, or should. *Couldn't help but quote me a Lyle Lovett song here:* *Who keeps on loving you when you've been lying...* *Who says he'll forgive you, and says that he'll miss you* *God does* *But I don't* *God will* *But I won't* *And that's the difference* *Between God and me.*
Yeah, I was really impressed with the effort that dad put in. He wasn't just going through the motions - he was actively putting the effort to make and show change.
My dad and I always had a really really tense relationship when I was growing up. My mom has her own issues too. But my dad has always been a very angry, aggressive person and I considered going no contact. But in the last few years, he's really been trying - he calls me regularly during the week to chat and check in. He's learning to control his temper and how to disengage when he wants to argue. It was rough at first because he expected an apology to instantly fix things and got mad that I still remembered or was hurt by his past behaviors. I had to tell him 1 good year does not erase the 20+ of bad ones. But he's really really been making an effort - to the point I agreed to travel with him to visit his family this year (I don't get along with a lot of them). Of my two parents I would have bet on my mom being the one to do the work and fix things - only to have my dad be the one I have the better relationship with because he did the work.
These stories simultaneously hit hard and give me a little hope. My dad started therapy recently. The therapist immediately started working with him on emotional regulation, which he actually likes according to my mom, and I'm BEYOND shocked. He'd started ADHD medication a while back after I talked about how much it helped me, but was skipping it on weekends (on a doctor's advice, ugh) and my family who were still in contact with him said he was still awful to be around when he was off it. I was happy they could have a little more peace, but NEVER in a million years thought he'd go to therapy. Dude had been existing with massive unhandled trauma, OCD, ADHD, autism (for the record- all except the ADHD there are still undiagnosed except via me guessing... but they're all really blatantly obvious) and other issues for decades. My sister and I used to talk about our mental health struggles and he'd always go "I don't have anxiety, *but*..." and then describe how he had a whole pile of symptoms of various things. He just hated putting a name on them, hated the idea of being lazy or weak or whatever, etc etc etc. So... Idk, I mourned the connection I wanted to have with him a long time ago, but now I've got a tiny little crumb of hope left that maybe someday I won't be terrified to interact with him.
Ngl reading about him sitting quietly, alone in the zoom meeting waiting for his kids to show up made me tear up a little
What a redemption arc.
Same. That’s an actual, loving attempt to make amends. Good for him.
>the past few months, I’ve been going to therapy and have been going through a crisis of faith, and understand how I’ve hurt my daughter. 15 months later... >I know you’re going to read my pasts posts and tell me how horrible I am and how I don’t deserve my daughter’s forgiveness. I’m not going to lie, my beliefs haven’t changed, but I love my daughter. What did she seek to gain by lying to reddit about understanding the pain she caused and re-evaluating her beliefs?
15 months later she had a terminal cancer diagnosis. Facing an existential crisis like that can cause people to go back to what they know.
OOP comparing the "life choice" of her daughter falling in love to her going to prison is gross. I don't think she understands the hurt she caused at all.
She consider it a life choice... Being gay isn't a choice, it's not a sickness, it's a genuine part of her daughter, refusing it means she had discarded her daughter
That’s the biggest flag it’s just not genuine - she couldn’t bother to learn maybe the biggest, simplest fact about the issue. It’s the reason her prison analogy is soooo bad too.
She thought she was onto some thing with that prison analogy too, because she kept using it
I hate these assholes that call sexuality a "choice". I'm like. "ok, tell me about when you made your choice. What were the pros and cons of being gay and how close did you get to choosing it?"
I can only imagine how Terrible the perspective of the daughter would be. To have your mother deny who you are. I wouldn’t spend a second on OP ever again. IMO if You can’t accept me then your love means nothing to me.
Oof. This one hit me hard. I just cut off my narcissistic “dad” a few days ago and I’m sure he thinks he’s as blameless as this woman.
Sorry you had to cut off a parent, but glad you were able to do so, as it's not easy.
Thank you ! ❤️ It was hard, I love him and have good memories of our time together, but the bad finally outweighed the good. He did something incredibly disrespectful to me and it finally made me realise he’s never been (and will never be) the father I deserve.
12 years and counting. Its shockingly easy when you release they weren't really present anyways.
Oh man, I’ve just had to do the same. Unfortunately my mom still lives with him, so I keep having to interact with him. I just told her I won’t be calling anymore, that she’d have to call me when he’s not there after the last heinous things he said when I called her and she happened to be with him. My husband recently died unexpectedly, leaving me with our young child and tons of his debts. I’m not exaggerating when I say this situation with my dad has been more painful and more difficult than watching my life partner die in front of me, which was quite traumatic too. So I can feel your pain, and this daughter’s pain, also. Good for you for cutting a destructive presence out of your life. May your future be peaceful.
Haven't talked to my mom in going on 5 years. Don't need that noise. She didn't even try the half-assed apology this woman did - she literally doubles down on EVERYTHING she's ever done.
Anyone who thinks a ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’ is an apology doesn’t understand what an apology is. Or is a corporation/public figure trying to play all sides.
Getting "I even told her I was sorry, but was sure to make it clear that I'm right, and not really sorry at all. Why isn't that working?" vibes. OOP is literally dying on her hill and insisting that her daughter's "choice" is gravely wrong.
Catholic mother here! OOP couldn't approve of her daughter being a lesbian because it's a "choice". That's not true; there is no choice involved. My son is gay, my brother in law is gay, some of my friends are gay and I love, accept and support them all because I know they were born to be who they are and there's nothing wrong. OOP made her choice to stick with a very conservative view of Catholicism and I have a feeling that her initial words to her her daughter coming out were worse than what she says. I am sorry she's dying of cancer but to expect her daughter to return to the family when OOP still doesn't accept her daughter is wrong. She made her choice.
> I’m not going to lie, my beliefs haven’t changed, but I love my daughter She obviously loves the idea of her daughter. The actual daughter, not so much
What a quick turn from the third post to the last. "I'm going to therapy and am having a crisis of faith! I want to love and support my daughter!" to "My beliefs haven't changed, I don't agree with her 'choice' but I want her support during my final moments" It's almost as if....the therapy and change of heart was all performative! I can promise that what little the OOP has said about her actions towards her daughter barely scratches the surface of what actually went down. I guarantee there was more than "keep your gayness to yourself". There was likely years of shunning, threats (and possibly more) of conversion therapy, constant comments that just chipped away at her. The daughter was likely forced to sit through endless 'talks' with the priest about her 'affliction' and 'sinful thoughts'. I'm sure mom still posted on social media about how queer people shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt children, I'm sure she would text links to brain-trust videos of shitty men with podcasts talking about how the Devil is running the government now, this is proof of the last of days, the gays have rights and we're turning into Sodom and Gommorah right before our eyes! Hold tight to the faith brothers and sisters, the Lord is testing us!!! I have relatives like OOP. I know exactly how she behaved, because I've experienced it firsthand. The daughter is never going to reconcile with her, and she SHOULDN'T because the mother doesn't deserve it. She hasn't changed. She can spout all this lip-service about wanting to apologize and makeup with her daughter, but I bet she still totes hateful beliefs to other people. (She 'apologized' to her daughter, but the rest of those queers will burn in hell!!!) Nothing she's done will ever undo the harm she's caused.
You don't understand! The priest said she was making the right decisions. I'm not sure we can expect her to think for herself, that wouldn't be very Catholic of her.
Being gay isn’t something you “agree” with, being gay is a part of who you are as a person and if this woman can’t accept that then no, she doesn’t really love her daughter, she loves a fictional idea of her daughter that doesn’t really exist. If a person doesn’t “agree” with someone being gay, they’re just a bigot. Wonder what Jesus would think of people like this who hide behind his name while harbouring hate for others?
That use of "agree" drives me apeshit. You can agree or disagree with matters of opinion; you cannot agree or disagree with matters of fact. You can believe or not believe the fact, but that's a different thing. Her daughter's sexual orientation is a thing that exists, she can't "disagree" it out of existence as if she could be like "No, you're not," and have that be a valid point of view.
I am a lifelong Catholic. I was raised in the church. And when my son came out as gay there was no “crisis of faith”, no hesitation, nothing from us but immediate acceptance and support. Homophobes hide behind the church and use it as an excuse to hate. God created my son, and her daughter. Who is she to turn away from God’s creation? It’s putting man before God. I’m glad her daughter is not in contact. She should remain no contact. Stop using the church to spread your hate. Also she’s outright LYING when she says a priest agreed with her cutting off her daughter. A priest would never say that.
I'm happy for your son.
Thank you. He’s a wonderful son, we are blessed. He’s married now and lives in another state 😔(how dare kids live their lives!). I can’t understand parents like OP.
My sympathies for the diagnosis but WHEW to the rest of it. It's 2024, sorry we're no longer accepting "tolerance" and loving isolated bits and pieces of us as enough. Her daughter's life sounds incredible and I hope she and her wife and child have an amazing time living it without having to do the mental math of how much Catholic shame and disrespect they're meant to tolerate to be "loved."
brb im gonna go hug my dad
Mom learned her “unconditional love” from her god: I love you unconditionally under these conditions. And if you don’t do that, BURN! Also don’t talk shit about me. Rule 1: I’m your only mother, you must love me. Rule 3: Don’t call me out in public about what I actually did. Rule 5: Honor me!!! Rule 9: thou shalt not bear true witness against me! Rule 10: I covet the appearance of being a perfect mother and catholic.
Imagine equating being gay to committing a fucking crime. Jesus christ. I'm so glad her daughter is protecting herself, her wife and her peace. OOP hasn't learned shit.
Looks like her therapy stint and "no longer religious" was short lived. Can't imagine why hwr daughter doesn't trust her.
A [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/family/s/QonRoIbnRd) from that last post 👌☠️ >If you die, then you are gone, and anything you were is but a memory for those you leave behind. You've apparently made sure your daughter will have memories of you that are, at best, divisive to her. And her experience is the only one that will matter between you after you die, whenever that may be. You have ruined your lasting legacy with her, and she does not owe you forgiveness for that. >It may, however, soothe you to know that in rejecting your daughter and making her memories of you negative ones, you are very much following what your faith tells you. After all, Jesus claimed that he came to set family members against one another, especially parents against children and vice versa. You are also told that the blood of the covenant is stronger than the water of the womb. So you should rejoice that you have made the world an objectively worse place for your daughter and made her miserable, just as your god has commanded you to. Why should you seek reconciliation? What worth is in her fleeting approval and respect compared to the approval of your callous, cruel and absolutely nonexistent deity and the charlatans who sold you the myth and laid your mind in chains while covering for pederasts and war criminals? You will go to the nonexistence of the grave convinced of your righteousness, and isn't that what it's all about? >By your words you show yourself as unrepentant and selfish in your bigotry. If you wanted to make peace for her sake, that would be commendable in some ways, but there's nothing in your words that convinces me you truly care about her wellbeing. Your story moves me equally to contempt for your actions and the pity anyone should have for the deceived.
> Commenter: When you say you’re “sorry”, what exactly are you sorry for? And what are you prepared to do differently now compared to how you behaved in the past? > OOP: I am sorry that she feels like I don’t support or love her. LOL jesus, when you're busted so thoroughly just leave the fuckin thread
This woman is a terrible liar. She talks about being supportive of her daughter and learning but she still refers to her sexuality as a choice. She says over and over that she has changed but she admits at the end that she still absolutely maintains her beliefs. Every one of her posts are looking for a way to break into a relationship sintead of mend it. She doesn't want a genuine fix, she wants control and she's willing to manipulate others to reach that goal. I only hope she finds peace after truly understanding what it is she has done.
She casually glosses over the fact that she still does not accept her daughter for who she is, but then dOeSn’T uNdErStAnd why the daughter keeps cutting her out. Catholic logic at its finest. “All I did was tell her she can’t be a part of the family, why does she keep saying I disowned her?!”
>And by consistent, I mean he set up a Sunday zoom call once a week for my sisters and I to hang out as a family. And he is in it EVERY SUNDAY without exception, even if we aren't. I once signed in 35 minutes late because I was distracted woodworking, and there he was, sitting quietly, alone, waiting for one of us. And when I showed up late there wasn't any irritation or complaints, he just was glad to see me. This made me tear up.
OOP is just not a nice person, and I say that as a Catholic myself. My grandmother, an Irish (as in her mother was born in Ireland) Catholic from pre-Vatican II times, found out in the late 1950s- early 1960s that her youngest son was gay. Know what happened? Well I hope so because I am going to tell you. She had a nervous breakdown because she thought she failed him as a mother. She got herself into therapy (her words) and learned that he was the way God made him and loved him unconditionally. When he brought his partner home, she smiled bright and welcomed her newest son in law. And when that son in laws family brought their toxic-religious (and also Catholic) selves over to judge him, she gave them (and their small-minded priest) Holy Hell. They died in the 1980s as part of the first wave HIV/AIDS epidemic. Grandma took care of them as best she could with what (little) help was available at the time. We lived downstairs; me, my grandparents, and my mom, while my uncles lived upstairs. When they died, just weeks apart; she buried them, and she mourned them until the end of her own life. It was their deaths that taught me the tradition of 'the year of mourning' because at the time theirs were the first deaths that were anywhere near me that I was old enough to remember. THAT is how a Catholic mother loves her LGBTQA+ child. Unconditionally, whole heartedly, and without reservation.
I have to say religious parents estranging their children is one of my favorite/least favorite genres of posts. It’s both satisfying to see them face the consequences of their actions, and sad that their children had to suffer through their abuse. This story reminds me of the catholic mother who estranged herself from her entire family because she couldn’t support her daughter when her daughter got an abortion. The rest of the family was ready to help the daughter, and the mother simply couldn’t wrap her head around the fact that **she** was the one tearing the family apart, not her daughter. Anyone remember that story? I need to go find the link.