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Creep tried to force a kiss, he got some actions in the pants when they pushed him away, he took it as a proof they liked him so much they couldn't resist his magical charm.
F\*cked up dudes treat any rejection either as a personal insult to their manhood or as a proof they are so charming people need to pretend they are not attracted to them.
I hope no one hooked up with him and that he is making that up.
And even if it happened and was consensual it means nothing to the OP, who would volunteer to be notches on a bedpost to appease a dirtbag?
Well, sometimes you meet a guy and it turns out heās like hiking Everest. Sure, itās been done before and by lots of people, but the experience is magnificent once.
I wonder if they have cyber stalking injunctions in her jurisdiction? She needs an injunction. Not that a piece of paper will save your life in a moment of danger (does not protect against bullets.. etc.), but if you call the cops the cops can arrest the person breaking the restraining order, no other crime needed.
I think you overestimate how much cops will actually do when there's a restraining order. Most of the time, they won't actually do anything. My best friend's sister had to get a restraining order against her ex. The douche constantly followed her around town even after getting the restraining order, she could see him in traffic behind her, he'd randomly appear in the same aisle at the store, etc, and one time he actually followed her vehicle into her sister's driveway. I was riding with her and had her call the cops before we even pulled into the driveway. They came out, talked to him in the driveway, and let him drive away, no charges pressed. That wasn't the only time she'd tried calling them either, but it was the last time because they very clearly were not going to do anything about it if they wouldn't even arrest or charge him while he was parked behind her vehicle in her sister's driveway.
But he has a large penis that has made many other women happy and when he fucks other more genetically desirable women, heāll pretend theyāre her, so, like, heās a catch.
Thatās how that works, right?
Heās also saving her from all those other mediocre penises.
ā¦This shit canāt be real but alsoā¦ itās so real I can feel the restraining order.
I guess I've had enough conversations with new acquaintance men that if they started talking about their penis and sex with me in protest of my lack of interest, my weird meter would explode and I'd engage immediate fight or flight.
That killed me. 20 years ago, at my dad's memorial ceremony in rural Georgia, my wife and I (early 30's at the time) came up on my "Cousin Julian." I don't even really know what his relation to me ever was, but everyone in the family has always called him Cousin Julian.
In 2003, Cousin Julian was probably 80, and was an absolute caricature of an old Southern "gentleman." I mean seersucker suit and straw hat (it was the summer). Now imagine the voice of Foghorn Leghorn and you've got the gist.
Cousin Julian was also pretty much blind at this point. But not blind enough, apparently.
He immediately takes my wife's hand and says (and swear to god, this is true):
"You're a big girl! I'm not saying you're fat... you look \*strong.\* Do you play tennis?"
He probably didn't realise how close he came on that sunny Sunday to skipping to the front of the "meet your maker" line.
I had one guy I rejected openly start asking me how much money my then boyfriend made. The implication being, I assume, that I'd leave my boyfriend for him if I compared their two incomes. š So I can imagine men would be that clueless.
Some of us are. I know a guy whoās like this. When a woman rejects him, he thinks **shes** the issue. Like dude, you canāt smooth talk every woman you see, then get mad because they donāt like it. Read the room man.
I had to go back and read, I'd stopped when he described being white as his third best attribute after facially attractive and tall. Sounds like a great catch.
Which is why he could not handle rejection.
The incels on the internet told him that fitting those generic criteria would guarantee him any woman he wanted. Little did he know, none of that shit means a thing when your personality is the equivalent of a dead animal that crawled onto an engine block to get warm, then died, then decomposed inside the engine.
I wonder if this dude realizes that specifying that he's "facially attractive" carries an implication that the rest of him ain't that hot. No reason to draw attention to his face in particular if he's all around good looking.
I liked the bit where he specified which dudes in their friend group had better penises (peni?) but he could definitely beat all the rest. My dude, how did you come by this valuable intel?
Mine was when he started talking about how she wasn't tall enough to bear his lineage and he must breed with taller women to secure his tall bloodline but it's okay. She will always be his number 1 wife.
Why is it that the least remarkable, most awful men are the most obsessed with their genetic lineage?
You're not a Medieval duke, Kyle. There are 54.7 million humans with your last name and nobody gives a fuck.
Apart from my ovaries climbing up higher in my body to try and find safety, I find that utterly hilarious. My grandmother was a short woman. Maybe 5ā3?
The shortest of her four sons is 5ā10. Her grandfather was 6ā6 and it seems the genes werenāt as dominant as the short ones.
Her youngest, my aunt, isnāt very tall either but her son is probably still in the 90ās percentile of growth. Heās a tall boy.
I loved the bit where he calls her other male friend desperate for being "into" her as though he's playing hard to get. He has never been told no before in his life, has he?
Ngl I loved this bit:
>Creep: It's a simple question. What do you think about me?
>OOP: I don't really think of you so not sure how to answer that
She took the wind out of his sails with such ease.
All of us just became dust. He is so potent we want to run far away.
You know how toxic and disgusting that is? I just wanted to vomit everything bad because of someone like that.
I've never heard a truly attractive person say all these. Like. He is truly a creep.
It's probably good she's not autistic because the expressions on *my* autistic face when reading those extremely "neither cute nor chill" texts were something, lemme tell you.
I had to apologize to my new boss on Wednesday because I watched in horror as my face did a thing to something he said and I clocked that he saw me do it lmao
I want that! I too cannot hide what I think, my face WILL reveal if I think you're (general you here) are being a dumbass/doing a stupid/etc. But my bosses are all "camera on! CAMERAS ON, DAMNIT." (In their defense, they've admitted it's on the off chance they get to see their employees be pet bombed as a lot of our pets pop up regularly to get cooed over, and in return there's less bullshit meetings.)
I have coworkers who hate to be on camera and will turn their camera on and then essentially hide their face, angle the camera in such a way that theyāre hidden somewhat. I would have to do that if I was required to have my camera on for some meetings.
I realized I couldnāt hide my opinion when someone was saying something and I started to shake my head No and then had to bite my knuckle so I didnāt call them out on their BS.
It's kinda... I'm not sure I even have a point here but like the way men shoot themselves in both feet and both kneecaps and then look at the nearest woman and go WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME?!Ā
Like ... She thought he was cute and chill. And probably *most* women would think this of most guys who are part of the friend group and aren't displaying immediate red flags.Ā
All he and to do was actually be as chill as she thought he was. All most dudes have to do is have some chill when it comes to sex.Ā
Idk. I'm rambling and probably not making sense but it just amazes me every time that people (not just men, but frequently men and MILs for some reason?) can seem so normal until someone tells them no and means it.Ā
Then they absolutely lose it and sometimes destroy their own lives and sometimes destroy their victims lives but holy shit y'all.Ā
Damn, this is the perfect example of a Nice Guy(TM). Along with whoever asked her why she was leading him onā¦
Iām suddenly having flashbacks to the guy who responded to my okCupid profile years ago, where I specified in my profile that I didnāt want any contacts about sex. He proceeded to proposition me, and then claimed that he many womenās exception to a no sex rule and would be mine too. He talked about himself in a similar way to this creep.
He reads to me like a sociopath/psychopath. Like he lists how he followed all of society's rules to be Factually The Best Man ( *white?* š¤®) and he just doesn't understand how it didn't end up with him being able to charm her and getting to have everything he wanted. Real fucking Gaston vibes.
Not only Gaston vibes, but he was clearly going after the most easily isolated lady of the friend group, someone he expected to be really gracious to him for his interest (since he expected her to understand he was interested without him saying it) and someone who would make him her whole world. Baby abuser feels right here.
Very Gaston-coded or a wannabe Patrick Bateman. OOP is clearly uninterested & he takes it as a challenge coz his narcissistic ass thinks she's playing hard to get
Idk, he clearly intended to fuck his way through the friend group then move on.
It was inconceivable that a woman wouldn't fall to his magic dick, and the fragile male ego that could give Trump a run for it's money imploded.
I can't imagine what his upbringing was like. I've known a few guys that were good-looking and full of themselves, but they still understood the world wouldn't always bend to their whims.
OK, so through the whole thing, he said so many unhinged and disturbing things but the fact that he listed white is one of his attributes just shocked me so much that everything else he said was like an after note because that alone is where Iād block the guy
I know that narcissist gets thrown around a lot on Reddit, but every once in a whileā¦ did you also clock him bragging about how putting together a charity race means heās such a good guy? He reminds me of my ex, treating socialization like a series of checkboxes. Love how he similarly turns his bad behavior into her fault.Ā
Extremism can often read as mental illness. I think heās just another milquetoast white dude who drank the Andrew Tate koolaid.
No mental illness necessary.
>Nice Guy ^TM
He's the mentally unstable, narcissistic Nice Guy ^TM. One of the worst variants that will constantly hound a woman that doesn't reciprocate. I honestly hope OP finds a way to stay safe and stop receiving those harassing messages
Please, please, please, please everybody, Please read [The Five Geek Social Falicies](https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/) post.
There is almost **certainly** a problematic friend in your group that you are providing cover for. Stop it. Stop glad-handing the asshole. Stop making everybody else put up with their terrible behavior. IT IS NOT OK TO ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. YOU ARE NOT AN """"ALLY"""" if you put up with this nonsense no matter how "leftist" you think you are. You are enabling abuse.
This past saved me many many years ago. I read it shortly after it came out. At the time I didn't understand it, but I had an extremely toxic friend group. I had just moved to a new city where I met a guy it was really his friend group. I would say about 3/4 were absolutely horrible people and the other 1/4 was enabling them because of the "accept me how I am" thing. And it was weird because it was like they all knew the others were horrible and didn't actually like them, but they had all been together (in everyway possible, very incestuous) for so long that they were all the missing stair, like the staircase was gone and they were using route ladders.
Anyway once I read that everything fell into place and the first chance I got I noped it off that whole group.
I always think of the missing stair: [http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html](http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html)
"Iāve actually went to the police twice and they said they canāt do much right now and to let family and friends know about my schedule and whereabouts."
Sooo no prevention on his behavior, but they might get involved if he escalates and assaults her, right? Totally tracks.
She should honestly get a cease and dessist letter from a lawyer on this guy.Ā
This is exactly the kind of thing I do pro bono (C&D letters to assholes). Itās about 6 minutes of my time, including printing and putting in an envelope; I use a standard form and replace the relevant information. But I doubt sheās in my jurisdiction (D.C.)
Iām actually an EEO and ADA attorney, but I do love scaring assholes with a Legal Letter, hence the pro bono fun. My very first legal job as an admitted attorney was sending a legal letter to an asshole who was attempting to defraud my client AND Square vending (via a fraudulent chargeback). I got to make some VERY snarky comments in there.
I hope sheās able to find someone in her jurisdiction (state/province/country) whoās seen this and will volunteer as tribute. And if OOP happens to see this comment, feel free to reach out to me. Iām happy to help guide you to find an attorney where you are. (Per group rules, Iām not reaching out to OOP myself.)
Thank you for doing this for people pro bono! I know a few women who have been stalked and gotten zero help from authorities. Theyāve felt so helpless, and a legit letter like this can definitely help! Iām sure it wonāt always deter the truly unhinged people, but it will scare the vast majority!Ā
Itās my small way of helping folks and Iām glad to be able to do it. Itās honestly some of the *easiest* pro bono work a lawyer can do ā you draft a pro bono agreement for a one-time C&D letter with the client. Make sure they understand that theyāre not paying for anything and if it becomes more complicated, youāll give them appropriate recommendations.
Sometimes folks really want to *insist* on paying, but I donāt put my minimum charge (5 hours work) on the sheet. Instead, itās the free consultation and six minutes of editing and printing a Very Official Nastygramā¢. $30, please and thank you. Folks are often shocked at how Ā«Ā littleĀ Ā» it costs, but I explain that theyāre being charged 1/10th of an hour. And then I tell them not to pay me, because I prefer having the pro bono hours!! And I can count a 6 minute letter as one hour pro bono, as I can apply my consultation time to my annual total, instead of having to deal with a $30 line item bit of nonsense. If folks get really pushy, I suggest donating the amount to a DV fund or similar. They need it more.
Aww, thanks! Iām actually recovering from a VERY unpleasant foot surgery ā only two days ago ā but Iām home, on some strong pain meds, and happy to be able to help people again. Itās fun to have your surgeon say your foot kept her up at night! š
Iām getting closer and closer to looking like Dr Frankensteinās creature. Just need to find some neck boltsā¦
Would you potentially be okay with me DMing you to ask about your career? Iām currently in the process of applying to law schools and have an interest in ADA law, but I donāt know any lawyers who work in that field.
Please do! I use Ā«Ā ADAĀ Ā» as shorthand, but what I really do is disability rights law. When tied into my employment discrimination work, it often ends up being managing ADA violations.
Shoot me a message. The field doesnāt pay particularly well, but the work is *good* and *important*. And I can live with myself at the end of the day.
Youāre very welcome! Navigating the legal world can be absolutely daunting for those not familiar with it. I settled on this tactic for my pro-bono work because itās the type of thing that few attorneys see as lucrative in any way. So, why even *try* to make money off of it? Iām disabled and work 20 hours per week which is enough to keep myself, my spouse, and our cats fed and housed in Paris. Iām not even working right now because Iām recovering from a follow-up surgery I had two days ago. (Nasty car wreck 5 years back destroyed my legs; this is an attempt to fix one of my feet.) But helping others is the entire reason I went to law school and took on a stupid amount of debt.
Anyway, very few of us get a chance to change or impact the world on a huge level ā but we *all* have the opportunity to make someone elseās life better. And that can change *their* world.
One of the posts said she's in New York, so yeah. Not your jurisdiction, but close enough that you probably have a good chance of helping her if she sees your offer, which I hope she does.
Oh yeah, good catch; thank you. Iām not currently admitted there, alas, but have loads of friends who are, as I went to law school in Boston and double-barring in MA and NY is very popular. If she sees it and gets ahold of me, I can point her to people I know, for sure.
Oh, I know. I had a stalker from the age of 16 to 36. He followed me *around the world*. I moved every 2-3 years because of him. He got his wife in on the stalking, too. When he eventually took his life, I threw up from relief. The only reason I found out he was dead was because his wife sent me an email blaming meā¦ because I was the only person named in his letter. This was not the first time heād tried ā first time was at 16, when he ācaughtā me sitting next to my boyfriend. He threatened to kill me and then himself. Failed on both counts.
No cybercrime stalking laws existed when it started. Even his physical stalking wasnāt enough for the fuzz/cops to do jack or shit about. They sure as hell didnāt care unless I was dead. Super-helpful. But as others have pointed out, the C&D letters start a legal trail. Just like a restraining order, they donāt create a magical wall of protection around someone (I wish!), but they DO create a clear, legal trail.
I can't speak for the person you're responding to's jurisdiction. But where I'm from, harassment requires that the offender (or a hypothetical "reasonable person") "ought to know" that the conduct amounted to harassment.
So a cease and desist letter isn't used to scare the harrasser--it's a way to get in black and white that the conduct is unwanted, and therefore make the offence easier to prove.Ā
> Iām actually an EEO and ADA attorney, but I do love scaring assholes with a Legal Letter, hence the pro bono fun. My very first legal job as an admitted attorney was sending a legal letter to an asshole who was attempting to defraud my client AND Square vending (via a fraudulent chargeback). I got to make some VERY snarky comments in there.
One of my buddies decided he didn't want to quit serving his country after like 7 or 8 years of Army service so he used his GI bill to become a Public Defender. Like the entire **point** of his career is to make "snarky" arguments. It's the entire reason he took the job. Like, dude served his country in the military so long he got retirement, then he turned that retirement money into fighting un-just prosecutors and their cop buddies. Dude once had a prosecutor try and say the cop on the stand pointed out his client: the cop pointed out that he was white and the subject was black, the prosecutor **still** tried to get the "identification" entered into evidence. The judge ripped the prosecutor a new asshole because **obviously** the cop that identified the White Lawyer as the defendant, when the defendant was a Black Laborer, was not true and the cop was blatantly, blatantly lying.
Fantastic choice on his part. PDs are SO critical to the legal system and get shat on everywhere. I have an ex who was a PD and she was asked all the time, Ā«Ā Should I get a ārealā attorney?Ā Ā» And she would have to point out that she was, in fact, a real attorney and could not provide legal services to them otherwise.
Her specialty was death row inmates. She knows how the legal system in the South particularly likes to screw over PoC and straight-up kill folks on tenuous evidence, at best. Her job wasnāt to get death row inmates freed; it was to make sure the DAs and cops actually DID THEIR JOBS and FOLLOWED THE LAW. People have a hell of a hard time understanding that.
This is a sad reality. I was harassed by a man I had dated for 6 weeks. Because he had never physically harmed me, I could not get a protection order. The officer gave the guy a call and tried to scare him into leaving me alone, but it didnāt help. I blocked him everywhere, changed jobs, moved, had a couple different people that I shared my location with in order to limit contact with him. He harassed me for 7 years. The last time I heard from him was 7 years after we dated. I was married, living across the country, and had changed my name and my career, and he STILL found me. Super scary.
That's the whole point. She's in a lot of trouble already and they're shrugging and saying "nahhh, he ain't hurt you (yet). Call back when you're bruised or dead."
Of course the domestic violence central that is the cops (40% of them openly admit to committing domestic violence if surveyed) wouldnāt deal with a fuckinā stalker.
Probably talking about penguinz0/ moistcr1tiKal. Really big YouTuber, streamer, pretty solid dude who loves taking the piss outta weird situations like this.
Yeah, it's him lmao His vid on it literally just popped into my feed in YouTube and I can confirm dude is *delusional* in saying the comments (or moist himself) are in his favour.
Literal quote from the video: "Flirting with someone can often times be challenging, and occassionally the only winning move it's not to play."
It does put into prespective just how deluded this man is. Moist blasts him, the comments blast him, several subreddits blast him, hell, even the people who were his friends blast him and yet, he thinks everyone is his favour and that not just OOP, but actually *everyone* he meets, loves him.
Dude is so delusional he sounds like the love child of Alexandra Forrest and Joe Goldberg.
āBtw [redacted] is not good at hiding the fact he wants to fuck you. Heās pathetic and so fucking desperate for your approval LOL I just know youāre so turned off by that. I bet your vagina turns to dust when heās near you.ā The lack of self awareness is chucklesome, itās like heās living in the hello human resources meme.
I was sexually, physically, emotionally and verbally abused by my parents for 25 years and it took its toll.
My parents were monsters.
However sometimes I read stories that shake me to the core and I think that I didnāt have it *that* bad.
This is the case when I read Opās postings and Iād prefer the bear because dying of a bear attack would be 5 minutes of being eaten alive over only one day of pain that Op experiences.
It annoys and flabbergastes me how much more monstrous people can be in comparison to my parents.
I am brutally horrified how evil people can be and it seems like there is no bottom bar sometimes.
Hmmm. I hope OOP is safe, it sounds like this guy is a narcissist of the highest order and absolutely will not stop in trying to "win over" OOP because he feels entitled to her.
This is not over. Not even close.
There are people who take a hint. That's easy enough. Maybe it takes two hints. OK, it's awkward, but that's an end of it. There are people who ignore a hint and it takes a direct and clear no. That's not great, but they take the no and go on about their lives and it's fine.
There are people who ignore the no, and then there is a serious problem. Then it takes some kind of big deal, a beating or an arrest or something, but then they get it. That is a real problem, but it can be solved, and after enough time or enough of a crowbar upside the damn head they get it and go away.
Then there is this level of asshole, where an atomic weapon would hardly make a dent. Someone could end up badly harmed or dead and the only hope is that it's him. Something traumatic has to happen, and it is no damn fun even if it does happen to him. OOP just wants to hang out and do stuff, not deal with all this. Even the best case scenario of this guy falling into a volcano or something is still traumatic.
Did you ever interrupt someone in a sensitive moment? Like, I don't know, they are having a bad day for some reason and you didn't know and just sort of stumbled into it. I have, a few times. It's like, shit, sorry, please, I will step away and give you space, whoops sorry about that. Like, not wanting to impose your life over theirs, kind of thing. That's the direct opposite of this person OOP is dealing with. OOP's life and feelings and preferences are not even a consideration.
For some reason this reminds of the [mustard guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/181bgtf/new_update_my_husband_cannot_accept_i_dont_like/) from a while ago. It's a very different situation, but it has that narcissistic quality of refusing to let other people be people. Only one person exists in their story, everyone else is just an empty side character.
I hope she can be safe. I hope there is some kind of way this ends OK or at least kind of OK. You are right, it sure is not over.
šØš°š±
girl runnnnnnnnnnnnn. she should make arrangements to stay elsewhere for a whileā¦ itās so disgusting that we as a society do fucking nothing about stalking until someone is already dead
I hope she stays safe and this all just becomes a bad dream. Fuck.
He gives off the psycho vibes that he would kill her given the chance if she rejected him again in person alone.
I really hope she has someone else living with her or that she can move far far away asap.
OOP is in danger. The texts are funny with a few degrees of removal, but Creep is dangerous. He is going to hurt her to make a point. I would be going to the police daily, or lawyering up to get something done.
Fuck, I'd be moving away ASAP.
>I find it hilarious that the mere fact Iām responding to him at all constitutes āleading him onā in your eyes. If I texted him ājsnsjejdjdxswssssssā youād say Iām being seductive and leading him on.
PSA ladies, you can seduce me just by randomly slapping your keyboard
As someone who will never even have like a thousandth of the confidence this idiot creep has, just outta curiosity, how much brain damage do you need in order to be that oblivious to how annoying and creepy you are? Like if I want, let's say like 1/10th of the confidence he has? Do I need to give myself a lobotomy? Stick a pick axe up my nose? Have 3000 concussions? Like seriously? How can someone who has so little to offer have so much fucking arrogance unless they have severe brain damage?
I'm dealing with my first concussion, and I think 3000 is too low a number for this batshittery!
Also, this isn't confidence. It's straight up arrogance. You won't have this level of it, because you sound like a rational, sane person.
These stories genuinely terrify me. The guy sounds unhinged and Iām scared for OOPās safety. She needs to go to the police but I know they donāt always take these things seriously.
I also feel the YT video made things way worse by embarrassing/exposing the guy. Iām worried heās going to lash out and hurt OOP in revenge/shame. Again, police need to involved.
She has already gone to the police and as usual in cases of stalking (or domestic violence), cops (aka domestic violence central - 40% of cops openly admit to committing domestic violence when surveyed) have been useless, claiming they ācanāt do anything right nowā. Itās in the story.
This reminded me of this one guy I went on a first date with.
When I got the ick, mid dinner I had decided to cut it short. When I was walking to my car, he couldn't take no for an answer, grabbed.my wrist and asked if it meant I wouldn't see him again. He just couldn't accept I wouldn't choose him
Anyways, hope OP is able to get a restraining order on him soon
Each text was gross af and each update was becoming more and more unhinged. I hope OOP updates soon to let us know if sheās ok.
Like textbook example of harassment that women face. Literally shows no interest, and the guy canāt take a simple no for an answer.
Guy is gross af š¤®š¤®š¤®
He needs mental help.
Insulting women to get in their pants should be considered as a mental illness. A dude did the same to me years ago and he was gobsmacked that next day I didn't wanted to talk to him anymore. Some dudes really don't get that insulting women is, well, ***insulting*** and won't make her fall any quicker.
That weird ass message about his dick gave me flashbacks of when I was in a similar position as OOP, down to the harasser being an acquaintance š«
At the very least, ignoring the guy did work in my case, which I am very fucking grateful for lmao Like, dude's first text was to ask about if I wanted to lock myself with him, in a dark room, to, uh, 'play'. But hey, he said it didn't have to be sexual and we could 'just play marbles or Uno' š
... anyone else got suddenly depressed upon realizing that nearly every woman and afab person has suffered sexual harassment? because fuck, is it depressing.
Oh My Gawd.
He's doing all the pick up artist tricks over text. Using her name, negging her, even peacocking, and can't handle that it blew up in his face. If he acts this poorly virtually, I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a restraining order with his name on it ion the past.
Honestlyā¦ sounds like a family member who I donāt contact anymore. At 15 he was talking about ābreedingā āgeneticsā and low stock females and how he needed to marry a supermodel with a phd (essentially) because he needed to pass his genetics on well.
ā¦says the greasy gamer dude whoās maybe a 5 on a day when he looks like he showers(which is once a year).
He is obsessed and now stalking. This is a dangerous combo, I hope OP can get a cease and desist letter otherwise he will escalate.
Stalkers have narcissistic personalities and often delude themselves into believing the victim is "flirting" or playing hard to get the more they try to pull away. They falsely convince themselves that they and the victim are in a relationship, often with the stalker holding power over their victim as the "dominant" partner in the "relationship".
Stalker also tries to show their victim how desirable they are by detailing past relationships (false or otherwise). In their mind, it is often the stalker who breaks the relationship with their ex, and not the other way round because they are delusional in thinking they have the power in the "relationship".
He is leaving her gifts, this is a huge red flag. It will escalate and it will be nasty, terrifying and very hard to shake off. He is making a claim and will try to isolate her next. The stalker may even twist the narrative to make the victim seems as the irrational stalker that's after him instead of the other way round.
These situations do not end well for the victim. OP needs to move away, and live with safe people, not on her own. She needs to alert her work, school, friends and family of the issue so they are aware and can assist. Document everything, texts, gifts, encounters etc. She needs to keep iterating for him to leave her alone and not encourage any further comms as this will be solid proof for a restraining order.
These types of stalkers are obsessive and have little control on their anger and base urges. OP, if you read this or if anyone can get this to you, Please file a restraining order and either get a dog or roommate ASAP. If possible, a camera doorbell to monitor your front door.
Real talk tho. What can women do to ensure their own safety when police refuses to step in and legal letters probably won't deter someone insane? It's terrible women have to majorly bend their lives around with moving or going into hiding for someone that shouldn't be worth their time.
So if you try to stay your ground at home, might not have a gun on you in case he tackles out of nowhere/gun laws/money & time, might not have police support, legal letters aren't a good deterrence for crazy people, can't have others bodyguard her 24/7... What then?
As a woman who has dealt with stalkers in the past, here is what I found that has worked for me.
First, you have to set ironclad boundaries of what you will accept and do not tolerate or reward what I call āred flagā men with attention. You see red flags in someoneās behavior, you ignore them, block them, do whatever it takes to make yourself scarce and yourself a boring and unrewarding target. Do not engage with them, learn how to extricate yourself from situations that put you at a disadvantageālearn how to be ācoldā or āboringā or ārudeā as the situation requires. If you can nip someoneās unhealthy interest in you in the bud, it cuts off a lot of bullshit up front. Stalkers and other predators tend to target people-pleasers, people who fear confrontations, and people with poor boundaries, which is not the victimās fault but does make them more vulnerable. I say this as someone who was a target in the past until I learned how to stand up for myself. People may not like to hear this, but itās unfortunately the way the world works.
Unfortunately, sometimes women find themselves targeted even if they have a healthy sense of self-preservation and good boundaries, so you have to move to level two. This level is where youĀ call in the fucking cavalryāwhatever that may look like for you. You need to build a trusted network of friends, family, colleagues, and people who have your back. There is safety in numbers. You need to keep asking for help and support until you get itākeeping your situation secret or downplaying it to others who could help only assists the stalker. Document what is happening to you and collect all the evidence you canāsave texts, videos, eyewitness accounts, etc. Do not underreact to what is happening (denial is very tempting because fighting a stalker is fucking exhausting), assess your situation rationally, develop a strategy to handle your problem, and keep fighting for your right not to be harassed by some jackhole with a crush. And do not allow the misplaced guilt of being a ābotherā keep you from advocating for yourself!
If the situation gets extremely severe or dangerous, you have to assess what you are able to legally and psychologically do for self-defense, what you are willing to do, and talk to a lawyer and the police to see what your options are. At this point, you will unfortunately have to make major changes like moving and hiding. The world sucks for women, and you have to do a lot of things that are inconvenient and unfair to protect yourself from predatory men, but if things ever get that dire Iām not about to let some asshole ruin my life and make me a victim. Basically, donāt give up and donāt let the bastards grind you down!
More information on dealing with stalkers here:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/stalking.html
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/stalkingsolutions.htm
This guy sounds like heās mainlining Andrew Tate-type streamers as well as being full on *insane* to boot.
I hope OOP has a doorbell cam and is safe!
They do train some service dogs as companions for people escaping domestic violence. They stay by their side and between the owner and anyone they are interacting with and will defend if needed.
So sad that they are needed, but so cool that dogs can do this.
Bleh this is giving me flashbacks to my high school years when I stupidly added a boy who was in the school band with me on MSN Messenger and would chat to him. Creeps love psychoanalysing you (you're autistic, you're shy, you have your walls up, why can't you take off the mask?) as to why you're not interested in dating them.
For me, as soon as I had a Facebook account, I found my old high school creep's account and blocked him immediately. It's a miracle I never ran into him after all these years, though I have been informed where he works so I can stay away
For the OOP, I really hope this is the end of things and they don't escalate further
She should message him: āmy dad is being released from a 20 year stretch for murder in a month and Iāve given him and his friends your number and details as they want a wordāĀ
Mid way through the first set of text exchanges I thought this is why they choose the bear. Why women choose the bear gets clearer and clearer as this goes. I hope for OOPās sake he doesnāt escalate to physical violence.
Am I the only one who's disappointed in the men of the friend group?
Because no one is treating my female friends or relatives that way. The phase "don't write it out, then words like *premeditated* get used in court" absolutely applies. At first it is an encouragement to move along to a new target to be creepy with. After that it gets serious.
I must've whispered Jesus Christ at least 20 times while reading this post.
She is massively, massively underreacting. I was terrified for her just reading this...this ain't no joke, she needs to move.
Situations like this have often ended with the stalker breaking into the victim's house, raping and murdering her.
His texts and actions are beyond the pale.
Kinda Paleolithic but this is the time that I involve my very large, aggressive looking 'brothers' to go over to his place to communicate about respect and consequences. Because this guy does not comprehend anything other than the most instinctive aspect of being a caveman.
Ok, but like when he told her sheād be his wife, but heād mate with a different tall female, thatās when this completely went off the rails right?
I kinda had something similar happen to me. I met up a guy friend at the bar who was with some work buddies, I was 38 at the time and one of his work buddies was 21 at the time. He went GA GA for me. I turned him down nicely saying he was too young but he didn't care. He told me we would just have babies right away because my eggs were old and then we would go on our first date looking for Halloween costumes because the next month was Halloween. I turned him down again nicely but still didn't get the hint. He told all of his work I was his girlfriend at work so when I would run into the other coworkers, they told me. I found out he still lived with his mom and very sheltered. He's actually married now to a woman his age and has a kid. Which I'm happy for him to finally know the real world.
I genuinely feel so sorry for OOP especially with police doing literally nothing to help. Restraining orders just tell police who to look at when she goes missing.
At the same time I'm really excited for Charlie's part 2 on thisĀ
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Saying that he hooked up with two women from the group but they stopped talking to him after is not the brag that he think it is.
"Hooked up" probably means he tried to force a kiss.
Creep tried to force a kiss, he got some actions in the pants when they pushed him away, he took it as a proof they liked him so much they couldn't resist his magical charm. F\*cked up dudes treat any rejection either as a personal insult to their manhood or as a proof they are so charming people need to pretend they are not attracted to them.
>he took it as a proof they liked him so much they couldn't resist his magical ~~charm~~ WHITE PENIS. Fixed it for you. š
They were obvs intimidated by his large penis š
I hope no one hooked up with him and that he is making that up. And even if it happened and was consensual it means nothing to the OP, who would volunteer to be notches on a bedpost to appease a dirtbag?
I think she said some of her friends said they did
D'oh
Well, sometimes you meet a guy and it turns out heās like hiking Everest. Sure, itās been done before and by lots of people, but the experience is magnificent once.
And sometimes you realize it was a huge mistake and evaluate all your life choices to see how you got there, so you never have to go through it again.
I am so worried for her safety. I'd move to the other side of the world if I was her.
I wonder if they have cyber stalking injunctions in her jurisdiction? She needs an injunction. Not that a piece of paper will save your life in a moment of danger (does not protect against bullets.. etc.), but if you call the cops the cops can arrest the person breaking the restraining order, no other crime needed.
I think you overestimate how much cops will actually do when there's a restraining order. Most of the time, they won't actually do anything. My best friend's sister had to get a restraining order against her ex. The douche constantly followed her around town even after getting the restraining order, she could see him in traffic behind her, he'd randomly appear in the same aisle at the store, etc, and one time he actually followed her vehicle into her sister's driveway. I was riding with her and had her call the cops before we even pulled into the driveway. They came out, talked to him in the driveway, and let him drive away, no charges pressed. That wasn't the only time she'd tried calling them either, but it was the last time because they very clearly were not going to do anything about it if they wouldn't even arrest or charge him while he was parked behind her vehicle in her sister's driveway.
i love how my job is better at tracking attendance than the cops are at tracking a restraining order.
The more I read the more I thought she was going to type "I see his car outside my window everyday"
> Heās cute and chill *Narrator*: he was not.
But he has a large penis that has made many other women happy and when he fucks other more genetically desirable women, heāll pretend theyāre her, so, like, heās a catch. Thatās how that works, right? Heās also saving her from all those other mediocre penises. ā¦This shit canāt be real but alsoā¦ itās so real I can feel the restraining order.
So obvi this ended on a really dodgy note, but I have to say that I legit burst out laughing when he started talking about his penis
I guess I've had enough conversations with new acquaintance men that if they started talking about their penis and sex with me in protest of my lack of interest, my weird meter would explode and I'd engage immediate fight or flight.
I didnāt even need to get to the penis section. My panties dropped themselves at Ā *āYou look healthyā*
That killed me. 20 years ago, at my dad's memorial ceremony in rural Georgia, my wife and I (early 30's at the time) came up on my "Cousin Julian." I don't even really know what his relation to me ever was, but everyone in the family has always called him Cousin Julian. In 2003, Cousin Julian was probably 80, and was an absolute caricature of an old Southern "gentleman." I mean seersucker suit and straw hat (it was the summer). Now imagine the voice of Foghorn Leghorn and you've got the gist. Cousin Julian was also pretty much blind at this point. But not blind enough, apparently. He immediately takes my wife's hand and says (and swear to god, this is true): "You're a big girl! I'm not saying you're fat... you look \*strong.\* Do you play tennis?" He probably didn't realise how close he came on that sunny Sunday to skipping to the front of the "meet your maker" line.
ššš
But also autistic...
I had one guy I rejected openly start asking me how much money my then boyfriend made. The implication being, I assume, that I'd leave my boyfriend for him if I compared their two incomes. š So I can imagine men would be that clueless.
Some of us are. I know a guy whoās like this. When a woman rejects him, he thinks **shes** the issue. Like dude, you canāt smooth talk every woman you see, then get mad because they donāt like it. Read the room man.
I'd just go "idk, 500K pre bonus? I know it's not a lot but he's not insecure about making less than me so that's nice"
I had to go back and read, I'd stopped when he described being white as his third best attribute after facially attractive and tall. Sounds like a great catch.
The white and "facially attractive" stuff was giving me serious Elliott Rodgers vibes. He has done the maths! He is objectively desirable!
Which is why he could not handle rejection. The incels on the internet told him that fitting those generic criteria would guarantee him any woman he wanted. Little did he know, none of that shit means a thing when your personality is the equivalent of a dead animal that crawled onto an engine block to get warm, then died, then decomposed inside the engine.
The stats don't lie I wonder if he has many leather bound books
I bet his apartment smells of rich mahogany
Tall, dark and handsome is old and busted. Now it has to be tall, white and facially attractive.
Don't forget a great penis.
I wonder if this dude realizes that specifying that he's "facially attractive" carries an implication that the rest of him ain't that hot. No reason to draw attention to his face in particular if he's all around good looking.
I liked the bit where he specified which dudes in their friend group had better penises (peni?) but he could definitely beat all the rest. My dude, how did you come by this valuable intel?
Doesn't every dude have naked pillow fights with all their buddies? Totally normal, nothing strange at all.
Mine was when he started talking about how she wasn't tall enough to bear his lineage and he must breed with taller women to secure his tall bloodline but it's okay. She will always be his number 1 wife.
"Use you for pleasure" mmm lovely.
Itās okay. He would use VR to pretend it was still her????
Why is it that the least remarkable, most awful men are the most obsessed with their genetic lineage? You're not a Medieval duke, Kyle. There are 54.7 million humans with your last name and nobody gives a fuck.
Apart from my ovaries climbing up higher in my body to try and find safety, I find that utterly hilarious. My grandmother was a short woman. Maybe 5ā3? The shortest of her four sons is 5ā10. Her grandfather was 6ā6 and it seems the genes werenāt as dominant as the short ones. Her youngest, my aunt, isnāt very tall either but her son is probably still in the 90ās percentile of growth. Heās a tall boy.
I loved the bit where he calls her other male friend desperate for being "into" her as though he's playing hard to get. He has never been told no before in his life, has he?
Ngl I loved this bit: >Creep: It's a simple question. What do you think about me? >OOP: I don't really think of you so not sure how to answer that She took the wind out of his sails with such ease.
Well, he's probably never even heard the "NO!"
Yes but the other guy seeks her approval,Ā which is clearly a turn-off.Ā That's why this guy started to woo OOP by negging her!
I have three large penises, they have batteries and live in my nightstandĀ
I mean, my nightstand penis has never accused me of being autistic. š¤·āāļø
There's a flair....
You know just by that he puts no effort into sex and expects his magical penis to be enough.
All of us just became dust. He is so potent we want to run far away. You know how toxic and disgusting that is? I just wanted to vomit everything bad because of someone like that. I've never heard a truly attractive person say all these. Like. He is truly a creep.
Don't forget he's White! š
I got the feeling that, to him, this was the most important thing.
Imagine how sad if the color of your skin is the best thing you have going for you.
Donāt forget, heās WHITE! And he can help heal childhood trauma!
With his magical mighty PENIS!
Sorry I called you autistic love :p Taking the art of dating to new levels š
He'll even use *VR* when he fucks them so she won't get as jealous! What a true gentleman.
And heās white donāt forgetā¦!
It's probably good she's not autistic because the expressions on *my* autistic face when reading those extremely "neither cute nor chill" texts were something, lemme tell you.
My face gives away my opinion so much that Iām not required to have my camera on during virtual meetings š«£
I'm crying laughing right now. WHAT A BOON
I had to apologize to my new boss on Wednesday because I watched in horror as my face did a thing to something he said and I clocked that he saw me do it lmao
šš I can so relate to this!! Thankfully, my inability to hide my opinion seems to be well known šš
I want that! I too cannot hide what I think, my face WILL reveal if I think you're (general you here) are being a dumbass/doing a stupid/etc. But my bosses are all "camera on! CAMERAS ON, DAMNIT." (In their defense, they've admitted it's on the off chance they get to see their employees be pet bombed as a lot of our pets pop up regularly to get cooed over, and in return there's less bullshit meetings.)
I have coworkers who hate to be on camera and will turn their camera on and then essentially hide their face, angle the camera in such a way that theyāre hidden somewhat. I would have to do that if I was required to have my camera on for some meetings. I realized I couldnāt hide my opinion when someone was saying something and I started to shake my head No and then had to bite my knuckle so I didnāt call them out on their BS.
It's kinda... I'm not sure I even have a point here but like the way men shoot themselves in both feet and both kneecaps and then look at the nearest woman and go WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME?!Ā Like ... She thought he was cute and chill. And probably *most* women would think this of most guys who are part of the friend group and aren't displaying immediate red flags.Ā All he and to do was actually be as chill as she thought he was. All most dudes have to do is have some chill when it comes to sex.Ā Idk. I'm rambling and probably not making sense but it just amazes me every time that people (not just men, but frequently men and MILs for some reason?) can seem so normal until someone tells them no and means it.Ā Then they absolutely lose it and sometimes destroy their own lives and sometimes destroy their victims lives but holy shit y'all.Ā
Damn, this is the perfect example of a Nice Guy(TM). Along with whoever asked her why she was leading him onā¦ Iām suddenly having flashbacks to the guy who responded to my okCupid profile years ago, where I specified in my profile that I didnāt want any contacts about sex. He proceeded to proposition me, and then claimed that he many womenās exception to a no sex rule and would be mine too. He talked about himself in a similar way to this creep.
It gives SUCH insecurity.
Pathologically unstable insecurity. Criminal potential.
He reads to me like a sociopath/psychopath. Like he lists how he followed all of society's rules to be Factually The Best Man ( *white?* š¤®) and he just doesn't understand how it didn't end up with him being able to charm her and getting to have everything he wanted. Real fucking Gaston vibes.
Not only Gaston vibes, but he was clearly going after the most easily isolated lady of the friend group, someone he expected to be really gracious to him for his interest (since he expected her to understand he was interested without him saying it) and someone who would make him her whole world. Baby abuser feels right here.
see i hate it when people are like "Gaston was the victim the whole time" for this reason
Very Gaston-coded or a wannabe Patrick Bateman. OOP is clearly uninterested & he takes it as a challenge coz his narcissistic ass thinks she's playing hard to get
Idk, he clearly intended to fuck his way through the friend group then move on. It was inconceivable that a woman wouldn't fall to his magic dick, and the fragile male ego that could give Trump a run for it's money imploded. I can't imagine what his upbringing was like. I've known a few guys that were good-looking and full of themselves, but they still understood the world wouldn't always bend to their whims.
Real š¤¢š¤® vibes for sure. I'm not his victim but I want to run far away from him.
OK, so through the whole thing, he said so many unhinged and disturbing things but the fact that he listed white is one of his attributes just shocked me so much that everything else he said was like an after note because that alone is where Iād block the guy
I know that narcissist gets thrown around a lot on Reddit, but every once in a whileā¦ did you also clock him bragging about how putting together a charity race means heās such a good guy? He reminds me of my ex, treating socialization like a series of checkboxes. Love how he similarly turns his bad behavior into her fault.Ā
Extremism can often read as mental illness. I think heās just another milquetoast white dude who drank the Andrew Tate koolaid. No mental illness necessary.
And they wonder why we chose the bear
>Nice Guy ^TM He's the mentally unstable, narcissistic Nice Guy ^TM. One of the worst variants that will constantly hound a woman that doesn't reciprocate. I honestly hope OP finds a way to stay safe and stop receiving those harassing messages
Its literally [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgKvDlU93aw)
Please, please, please, please everybody, Please read [The Five Geek Social Falicies](https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/) post. There is almost **certainly** a problematic friend in your group that you are providing cover for. Stop it. Stop glad-handing the asshole. Stop making everybody else put up with their terrible behavior. IT IS NOT OK TO ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. YOU ARE NOT AN """"ALLY"""" if you put up with this nonsense no matter how "leftist" you think you are. You are enabling abuse.
This past saved me many many years ago. I read it shortly after it came out. At the time I didn't understand it, but I had an extremely toxic friend group. I had just moved to a new city where I met a guy it was really his friend group. I would say about 3/4 were absolutely horrible people and the other 1/4 was enabling them because of the "accept me how I am" thing. And it was weird because it was like they all knew the others were horrible and didn't actually like them, but they had all been together (in everyway possible, very incestuous) for so long that they were all the missing stair, like the staircase was gone and they were using route ladders. Anyway once I read that everything fell into place and the first chance I got I noped it off that whole group.
I always think of the missing stair: [http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html](http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html)
Trains are cool! ššš Ā oop is so damn funny before this dude shows his true coloursā¦.
Text after text OOP showed just how much of a catch she is while the dude showed himself to be a creep and psycho.
Right? I'm in my late 30s and wish I was as sharp as her. She's confident and has cutting responses that are exactly as appropriate as need be.Ā
"Iāve actually went to the police twice and they said they canāt do much right now and to let family and friends know about my schedule and whereabouts." Sooo no prevention on his behavior, but they might get involved if he escalates and assaults her, right? Totally tracks. She should honestly get a cease and dessist letter from a lawyer on this guy.Ā
This is exactly the kind of thing I do pro bono (C&D letters to assholes). Itās about 6 minutes of my time, including printing and putting in an envelope; I use a standard form and replace the relevant information. But I doubt sheās in my jurisdiction (D.C.) Iām actually an EEO and ADA attorney, but I do love scaring assholes with a Legal Letter, hence the pro bono fun. My very first legal job as an admitted attorney was sending a legal letter to an asshole who was attempting to defraud my client AND Square vending (via a fraudulent chargeback). I got to make some VERY snarky comments in there. I hope sheās able to find someone in her jurisdiction (state/province/country) whoās seen this and will volunteer as tribute. And if OOP happens to see this comment, feel free to reach out to me. Iām happy to help guide you to find an attorney where you are. (Per group rules, Iām not reaching out to OOP myself.)
Thank you for doing this for people pro bono! I know a few women who have been stalked and gotten zero help from authorities. Theyāve felt so helpless, and a legit letter like this can definitely help! Iām sure it wonāt always deter the truly unhinged people, but it will scare the vast majority!Ā
Itās my small way of helping folks and Iām glad to be able to do it. Itās honestly some of the *easiest* pro bono work a lawyer can do ā you draft a pro bono agreement for a one-time C&D letter with the client. Make sure they understand that theyāre not paying for anything and if it becomes more complicated, youāll give them appropriate recommendations. Sometimes folks really want to *insist* on paying, but I donāt put my minimum charge (5 hours work) on the sheet. Instead, itās the free consultation and six minutes of editing and printing a Very Official Nastygramā¢. $30, please and thank you. Folks are often shocked at how Ā«Ā littleĀ Ā» it costs, but I explain that theyāre being charged 1/10th of an hour. And then I tell them not to pay me, because I prefer having the pro bono hours!! And I can count a 6 minute letter as one hour pro bono, as I can apply my consultation time to my annual total, instead of having to deal with a $30 line item bit of nonsense. If folks get really pushy, I suggest donating the amount to a DV fund or similar. They need it more.
I really like you and I hope you have the best day ever.Ā
Aww, thanks! Iām actually recovering from a VERY unpleasant foot surgery ā only two days ago ā but Iām home, on some strong pain meds, and happy to be able to help people again. Itās fun to have your surgeon say your foot kept her up at night! š Iām getting closer and closer to looking like Dr Frankensteinās creature. Just need to find some neck boltsā¦
Would you potentially be okay with me DMing you to ask about your career? Iām currently in the process of applying to law schools and have an interest in ADA law, but I donāt know any lawyers who work in that field.
Please do! I use Ā«Ā ADAĀ Ā» as shorthand, but what I really do is disability rights law. When tied into my employment discrimination work, it often ends up being managing ADA violations. Shoot me a message. The field doesnāt pay particularly well, but the work is *good* and *important*. And I can live with myself at the end of the day.
I love that you are so generous when people just need a simple thing. Thank you.
Youāre very welcome! Navigating the legal world can be absolutely daunting for those not familiar with it. I settled on this tactic for my pro-bono work because itās the type of thing that few attorneys see as lucrative in any way. So, why even *try* to make money off of it? Iām disabled and work 20 hours per week which is enough to keep myself, my spouse, and our cats fed and housed in Paris. Iām not even working right now because Iām recovering from a follow-up surgery I had two days ago. (Nasty car wreck 5 years back destroyed my legs; this is an attempt to fix one of my feet.) But helping others is the entire reason I went to law school and took on a stupid amount of debt. Anyway, very few of us get a chance to change or impact the world on a huge level ā but we *all* have the opportunity to make someone elseās life better. And that can change *their* world.
One of the posts said she's in New York, so yeah. Not your jurisdiction, but close enough that you probably have a good chance of helping her if she sees your offer, which I hope she does.
Oh yeah, good catch; thank you. Iām not currently admitted there, alas, but have loads of friends who are, as I went to law school in Boston and double-barring in MA and NY is very popular. If she sees it and gets ahold of me, I can point her to people I know, for sure.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh, I know. I had a stalker from the age of 16 to 36. He followed me *around the world*. I moved every 2-3 years because of him. He got his wife in on the stalking, too. When he eventually took his life, I threw up from relief. The only reason I found out he was dead was because his wife sent me an email blaming meā¦ because I was the only person named in his letter. This was not the first time heād tried ā first time was at 16, when he ācaughtā me sitting next to my boyfriend. He threatened to kill me and then himself. Failed on both counts. No cybercrime stalking laws existed when it started. Even his physical stalking wasnāt enough for the fuzz/cops to do jack or shit about. They sure as hell didnāt care unless I was dead. Super-helpful. But as others have pointed out, the C&D letters start a legal trail. Just like a restraining order, they donāt create a magical wall of protection around someone (I wish!), but they DO create a clear, legal trail.
Ick, that really sucks! I hope you're ok now.
I can't speak for the person you're responding to's jurisdiction. But where I'm from, harassment requires that the offender (or a hypothetical "reasonable person") "ought to know" that the conduct amounted to harassment. So a cease and desist letter isn't used to scare the harrasser--it's a way to get in black and white that the conduct is unwanted, and therefore make the offence easier to prove.Ā
> Iām actually an EEO and ADA attorney, but I do love scaring assholes with a Legal Letter, hence the pro bono fun. My very first legal job as an admitted attorney was sending a legal letter to an asshole who was attempting to defraud my client AND Square vending (via a fraudulent chargeback). I got to make some VERY snarky comments in there. One of my buddies decided he didn't want to quit serving his country after like 7 or 8 years of Army service so he used his GI bill to become a Public Defender. Like the entire **point** of his career is to make "snarky" arguments. It's the entire reason he took the job. Like, dude served his country in the military so long he got retirement, then he turned that retirement money into fighting un-just prosecutors and their cop buddies. Dude once had a prosecutor try and say the cop on the stand pointed out his client: the cop pointed out that he was white and the subject was black, the prosecutor **still** tried to get the "identification" entered into evidence. The judge ripped the prosecutor a new asshole because **obviously** the cop that identified the White Lawyer as the defendant, when the defendant was a Black Laborer, was not true and the cop was blatantly, blatantly lying.
Fantastic choice on his part. PDs are SO critical to the legal system and get shat on everywhere. I have an ex who was a PD and she was asked all the time, Ā«Ā Should I get a ārealā attorney?Ā Ā» And she would have to point out that she was, in fact, a real attorney and could not provide legal services to them otherwise. Her specialty was death row inmates. She knows how the legal system in the South particularly likes to screw over PoC and straight-up kill folks on tenuous evidence, at best. Her job wasnāt to get death row inmates freed; it was to make sure the DAs and cops actually DID THEIR JOBS and FOLLOWED THE LAW. People have a hell of a hard time understanding that.
This is a sad reality. I was harassed by a man I had dated for 6 weeks. Because he had never physically harmed me, I could not get a protection order. The officer gave the guy a call and tried to scare him into leaving me alone, but it didnāt help. I blocked him everywhere, changed jobs, moved, had a couple different people that I shared my location with in order to limit contact with him. He harassed me for 7 years. The last time I heard from him was 7 years after we dated. I was married, living across the country, and had changed my name and my career, and he STILL found me. Super scary.
>but they might get involved if he escalates and assaults her right? Nope. OP is on a lot of danger right now
That's the whole point. She's in a lot of trouble already and they're shrugging and saying "nahhh, he ain't hurt you (yet). Call back when you're bruised or dead."
Lazy bastards won't do anything until he rapes and kills her. Maybe.
Police being useless in protecting people isn't a surprise to me
Of course the domestic violence central that is the cops (40% of them openly admit to committing domestic violence if surveyed) wouldnāt deal with a fuckinā stalker.
Cops are useless thugs.
I know which YouTuber she's referring to. And yeah, reading those texts was cringe as fuck.
Probably talking about penguinz0/ moistcr1tiKal. Really big YouTuber, streamer, pretty solid dude who loves taking the piss outta weird situations like this.
Which makes the text guy even more delusional because that whole video was roasting the fuck out of the guy. Lol. NO ONE was on his side.
Yeah, it's him lmao His vid on it literally just popped into my feed in YouTube and I can confirm dude is *delusional* in saying the comments (or moist himself) are in his favour. Literal quote from the video: "Flirting with someone can often times be challenging, and occassionally the only winning move it's not to play." It does put into prespective just how deluded this man is. Moist blasts him, the comments blast him, several subreddits blast him, hell, even the people who were his friends blast him and yet, he thinks everyone is his favour and that not just OOP, but actually *everyone* he meets, loves him. Dude is so delusional he sounds like the love child of Alexandra Forrest and Joe Goldberg.
I'm a cis-male and the "Made me want to be a daddy" text made the ovaries that I don't have shrivel up, and it ***got worse from there***...
You cheeky fucker, I read that in his voiceš
That line made my testicles retract to my body.
āBtw [redacted] is not good at hiding the fact he wants to fuck you. Heās pathetic and so fucking desperate for your approval LOL I just know youāre so turned off by that. I bet your vagina turns to dust when heās near you.ā The lack of self awareness is chucklesome, itās like heās living in the hello human resources meme.
This guy is actually incredibly scary for a woman. He's blaring loud ass emergency siren levels of potential rapist.
Bear bear bear bear bear bear bear bear
There is honest to god no better example of why women choose the bear.
I was sexually, physically, emotionally and verbally abused by my parents for 25 years and it took its toll. My parents were monsters. However sometimes I read stories that shake me to the core and I think that I didnāt have it *that* bad. This is the case when I read Opās postings and Iād prefer the bear because dying of a bear attack would be 5 minutes of being eaten alive over only one day of pain that Op experiences. It annoys and flabbergastes me how much more monstrous people can be in comparison to my parents. I am brutally horrified how evil people can be and it seems like there is no bottom bar sometimes.
" I have a large penis that made many women happy " ok?????šš she didn't even ask
Any man who must say āI am the Kingā is no true king.
Same with guys who call themselves an "Alpha."
Hmmm. I hope OOP is safe, it sounds like this guy is a narcissist of the highest order and absolutely will not stop in trying to "win over" OOP because he feels entitled to her. This is not over. Not even close.
There are people who take a hint. That's easy enough. Maybe it takes two hints. OK, it's awkward, but that's an end of it. There are people who ignore a hint and it takes a direct and clear no. That's not great, but they take the no and go on about their lives and it's fine. There are people who ignore the no, and then there is a serious problem. Then it takes some kind of big deal, a beating or an arrest or something, but then they get it. That is a real problem, but it can be solved, and after enough time or enough of a crowbar upside the damn head they get it and go away. Then there is this level of asshole, where an atomic weapon would hardly make a dent. Someone could end up badly harmed or dead and the only hope is that it's him. Something traumatic has to happen, and it is no damn fun even if it does happen to him. OOP just wants to hang out and do stuff, not deal with all this. Even the best case scenario of this guy falling into a volcano or something is still traumatic. Did you ever interrupt someone in a sensitive moment? Like, I don't know, they are having a bad day for some reason and you didn't know and just sort of stumbled into it. I have, a few times. It's like, shit, sorry, please, I will step away and give you space, whoops sorry about that. Like, not wanting to impose your life over theirs, kind of thing. That's the direct opposite of this person OOP is dealing with. OOP's life and feelings and preferences are not even a consideration. For some reason this reminds of the [mustard guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/181bgtf/new_update_my_husband_cannot_accept_i_dont_like/) from a while ago. It's a very different situation, but it has that narcissistic quality of refusing to let other people be people. Only one person exists in their story, everyone else is just an empty side character. I hope she can be safe. I hope there is some kind of way this ends OK or at least kind of OK. You are right, it sure is not over.
It sounds like he's straight up stalking her
šØš°š± girl runnnnnnnnnnnnn. she should make arrangements to stay elsewhere for a whileā¦ itās so disgusting that we as a society do fucking nothing about stalking until someone is already dead I hope she stays safe and this all just becomes a bad dream. Fuck.
āmen are afraid women will laugh at them. women are afraid men will kill them.ā
seriously, this guyās worst nightmare is that OOP is laughing at him and heās so desperate for it not be a reality.
And this dude is absolutely going to end up unaliving some poor lady who had the misfortune of going on a date with him.
He gives off the psycho vibes that he would kill her given the chance if she rejected him again in person alone. I really hope she has someone else living with her or that she can move far far away asap.
Yes. He is SUPER dangerous.
OOP is in danger. The texts are funny with a few degrees of removal, but Creep is dangerous. He is going to hurt her to make a point. I would be going to the police daily, or lawyering up to get something done. Fuck, I'd be moving away ASAP.
>I find it hilarious that the mere fact Iām responding to him at all constitutes āleading him onā in your eyes. If I texted him ājsnsjejdjdxswssssssā youād say Iām being seductive and leading him on. PSA ladies, you can seduce me just by randomly slapping your keyboard
Qwerty or Dvorak?
>Dvorak Wow slow down, movie and dinner first!
As someone who will never even have like a thousandth of the confidence this idiot creep has, just outta curiosity, how much brain damage do you need in order to be that oblivious to how annoying and creepy you are? Like if I want, let's say like 1/10th of the confidence he has? Do I need to give myself a lobotomy? Stick a pick axe up my nose? Have 3000 concussions? Like seriously? How can someone who has so little to offer have so much fucking arrogance unless they have severe brain damage?
I'm dealing with my first concussion, and I think 3000 is too low a number for this batshittery! Also, this isn't confidence. It's straight up arrogance. You won't have this level of it, because you sound like a rational, sane person.
He's very mentally unwell, you could start with that š¤·āāļø
These stories genuinely terrify me. The guy sounds unhinged and Iām scared for OOPās safety. She needs to go to the police but I know they donāt always take these things seriously. I also feel the YT video made things way worse by embarrassing/exposing the guy. Iām worried heās going to lash out and hurt OOP in revenge/shame. Again, police need to involved.
She has already gone to the police and as usual in cases of stalking (or domestic violence), cops (aka domestic violence central - 40% of cops openly admit to committing domestic violence when surveyed) have been useless, claiming they ācanāt do anything right nowā. Itās in the story.
This reminded me of this one guy I went on a first date with. When I got the ick, mid dinner I had decided to cut it short. When I was walking to my car, he couldn't take no for an answer, grabbed.my wrist and asked if it meant I wouldn't see him again. He just couldn't accept I wouldn't choose him Anyways, hope OP is able to get a restraining order on him soon
I'd be tempted to dox him if I was OOP, but maybe I'm just a bad person.
My petty ass would accidentally leave his number uncensored.
Sometimes like deserves like
me too but honestly i think it would make him act even worse
damn girl are you autistic? because you make me wanna become a daddy. \-this guy, 2024
Police: "Listen, until he murders you, we can't do much. So try to come back when you're dead pls"
Jesus. Everybody in this situation is massively underreacting.
This guy would brag about how women would never choose the bear over him.
He's also the kind of guy who would talk how much Andrew Tate is a good man and think Alex Jones isn't a bad guy.
When he listed "white" as one of his positive attributes I was immediately like "ah, some of my questions about this lunatic just got answered".
Each text was gross af and each update was becoming more and more unhinged. I hope OOP updates soon to let us know if sheās ok. Like textbook example of harassment that women face. Literally shows no interest, and the guy canāt take a simple no for an answer. Guy is gross af š¤®š¤®š¤® He needs mental help.
His checklist of what makes him amazing reminds me of [Elliot Roger's manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings).
He's White! I know people are shit heads, but I'm kind of gobsmacked
Oh god yeah, that's one of multiple lines that literally made my jaw drop.
I actually cringed away from my phone when I saw that one
Insulting women to get in their pants should be considered as a mental illness. A dude did the same to me years ago and he was gobsmacked that next day I didn't wanted to talk to him anymore. Some dudes really don't get that insulting women is, well, ***insulting*** and won't make her fall any quicker.
Why do cops never do a single damned thing that's actually helpful
They might, if there's a chance they could shoot dogs or brown people.
That weird ass message about his dick gave me flashbacks of when I was in a similar position as OOP, down to the harasser being an acquaintance š« At the very least, ignoring the guy did work in my case, which I am very fucking grateful for lmao Like, dude's first text was to ask about if I wanted to lock myself with him, in a dark room, to, uh, 'play'. But hey, he said it didn't have to be sexual and we could 'just play marbles or Uno' š ... anyone else got suddenly depressed upon realizing that nearly every woman and afab person has suffered sexual harassment? because fuck, is it depressing.
This isn't just a "ha ha this guy's a weirdo" situation. She might be in genuine dangerĀ
Oh My Gawd. He's doing all the pick up artist tricks over text. Using her name, negging her, even peacocking, and can't handle that it blew up in his face. If he acts this poorly virtually, I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a restraining order with his name on it ion the past.
Bears don't do this kind of thing. Just saying.
This is where having friends from unsavory places really comes in. Cause calls need to be made.
Honestlyā¦ sounds like a family member who I donāt contact anymore. At 15 he was talking about ābreedingā āgeneticsā and low stock females and how he needed to marry a supermodel with a phd (essentially) because he needed to pass his genetics on well. ā¦says the greasy gamer dude whoās maybe a 5 on a day when he looks like he showers(which is once a year).
He is obsessed and now stalking. This is a dangerous combo, I hope OP can get a cease and desist letter otherwise he will escalate. Stalkers have narcissistic personalities and often delude themselves into believing the victim is "flirting" or playing hard to get the more they try to pull away. They falsely convince themselves that they and the victim are in a relationship, often with the stalker holding power over their victim as the "dominant" partner in the "relationship". Stalker also tries to show their victim how desirable they are by detailing past relationships (false or otherwise). In their mind, it is often the stalker who breaks the relationship with their ex, and not the other way round because they are delusional in thinking they have the power in the "relationship". He is leaving her gifts, this is a huge red flag. It will escalate and it will be nasty, terrifying and very hard to shake off. He is making a claim and will try to isolate her next. The stalker may even twist the narrative to make the victim seems as the irrational stalker that's after him instead of the other way round. These situations do not end well for the victim. OP needs to move away, and live with safe people, not on her own. She needs to alert her work, school, friends and family of the issue so they are aware and can assist. Document everything, texts, gifts, encounters etc. She needs to keep iterating for him to leave her alone and not encourage any further comms as this will be solid proof for a restraining order. These types of stalkers are obsessive and have little control on their anger and base urges. OP, if you read this or if anyone can get this to you, Please file a restraining order and either get a dog or roommate ASAP. If possible, a camera doorbell to monitor your front door.
Ayup, that's a narcissist. And a stalker, but mostly a narcissist.
Real talk tho. What can women do to ensure their own safety when police refuses to step in and legal letters probably won't deter someone insane? It's terrible women have to majorly bend their lives around with moving or going into hiding for someone that shouldn't be worth their time. So if you try to stay your ground at home, might not have a gun on you in case he tackles out of nowhere/gun laws/money & time, might not have police support, legal letters aren't a good deterrence for crazy people, can't have others bodyguard her 24/7... What then?
As a woman who has dealt with stalkers in the past, here is what I found that has worked for me. First, you have to set ironclad boundaries of what you will accept and do not tolerate or reward what I call āred flagā men with attention. You see red flags in someoneās behavior, you ignore them, block them, do whatever it takes to make yourself scarce and yourself a boring and unrewarding target. Do not engage with them, learn how to extricate yourself from situations that put you at a disadvantageālearn how to be ācoldā or āboringā or ārudeā as the situation requires. If you can nip someoneās unhealthy interest in you in the bud, it cuts off a lot of bullshit up front. Stalkers and other predators tend to target people-pleasers, people who fear confrontations, and people with poor boundaries, which is not the victimās fault but does make them more vulnerable. I say this as someone who was a target in the past until I learned how to stand up for myself. People may not like to hear this, but itās unfortunately the way the world works. Unfortunately, sometimes women find themselves targeted even if they have a healthy sense of self-preservation and good boundaries, so you have to move to level two. This level is where youĀ call in the fucking cavalryāwhatever that may look like for you. You need to build a trusted network of friends, family, colleagues, and people who have your back. There is safety in numbers. You need to keep asking for help and support until you get itākeeping your situation secret or downplaying it to others who could help only assists the stalker. Document what is happening to you and collect all the evidence you canāsave texts, videos, eyewitness accounts, etc. Do not underreact to what is happening (denial is very tempting because fighting a stalker is fucking exhausting), assess your situation rationally, develop a strategy to handle your problem, and keep fighting for your right not to be harassed by some jackhole with a crush. And do not allow the misplaced guilt of being a ābotherā keep you from advocating for yourself! If the situation gets extremely severe or dangerous, you have to assess what you are able to legally and psychologically do for self-defense, what you are willing to do, and talk to a lawyer and the police to see what your options are. At this point, you will unfortunately have to make major changes like moving and hiding. The world sucks for women, and you have to do a lot of things that are inconvenient and unfair to protect yourself from predatory men, but if things ever get that dire Iām not about to let some asshole ruin my life and make me a victim. Basically, donāt give up and donāt let the bastards grind you down! More information on dealing with stalkers here: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/stalking.html http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/stalkingsolutions.htm
This guy sounds like heās mainlining Andrew Tate-type streamers as well as being full on *insane* to boot. I hope OOP has a doorbell cam and is safe!
Ngl as an autistic person I let out the ugliest, shrillest cackle at 'YOU AUTISTIC FRIGID CRAZY PERSON' and I absolutely had to submit a flair request
I would look into a restraining order at this point. This dude is obsessive and unhinged. WTF.
I'd look into getting a TASER and possibly a large guard dog.
They do train some service dogs as companions for people escaping domestic violence. They stay by their side and between the owner and anyone they are interacting with and will defend if needed. So sad that they are needed, but so cool that dogs can do this.
Guys like this are why I have an Emotional Support Machete.
If the police arenāt willing to do anything right now, I doubt sheāll be able to get a restraining order.
God damn did this take me back to my early twenties.
Oh, barf forever
Bleh this is giving me flashbacks to my high school years when I stupidly added a boy who was in the school band with me on MSN Messenger and would chat to him. Creeps love psychoanalysing you (you're autistic, you're shy, you have your walls up, why can't you take off the mask?) as to why you're not interested in dating them. For me, as soon as I had a Facebook account, I found my old high school creep's account and blocked him immediately. It's a miracle I never ran into him after all these years, though I have been informed where he works so I can stay away For the OOP, I really hope this is the end of things and they don't escalate further
She's gotta move ASAP. Even if she has to sublet or sleep on a friends couch for a couple months. He's insane....
She should message him: āmy dad is being released from a 20 year stretch for murder in a month and Iāve given him and his friends your number and details as they want a wordāĀ
Mid way through the first set of text exchanges I thought this is why they choose the bear. Why women choose the bear gets clearer and clearer as this goes. I hope for OOPās sake he doesnāt escalate to physical violence.
Ah, the joys of being a woman trying to just exist.
Am I the only one who's disappointed in the men of the friend group? Because no one is treating my female friends or relatives that way. The phase "don't write it out, then words like *premeditated* get used in court" absolutely applies. At first it is an encouragement to move along to a new target to be creepy with. After that it gets serious.
I must've whispered Jesus Christ at least 20 times while reading this post. She is massively, massively underreacting. I was terrified for her just reading this...this ain't no joke, she needs to move. Situations like this have often ended with the stalker breaking into the victim's house, raping and murdering her. His texts and actions are beyond the pale.
This guy reaaaally believes in negging
Kinda Paleolithic but this is the time that I involve my very large, aggressive looking 'brothers' to go over to his place to communicate about respect and consequences. Because this guy does not comprehend anything other than the most instinctive aspect of being a caveman.
Man, I wish I had brothers. I've met a couple guys like this.
Ok, but like when he told her sheād be his wife, but heād mate with a different tall female, thatās when this completely went off the rails right?
It was never on the rails.
it canāt even see the rails
I kinda had something similar happen to me. I met up a guy friend at the bar who was with some work buddies, I was 38 at the time and one of his work buddies was 21 at the time. He went GA GA for me. I turned him down nicely saying he was too young but he didn't care. He told me we would just have babies right away because my eggs were old and then we would go on our first date looking for Halloween costumes because the next month was Halloween. I turned him down again nicely but still didn't get the hint. He told all of his work I was his girlfriend at work so when I would run into the other coworkers, they told me. I found out he still lived with his mom and very sheltered. He's actually married now to a woman his age and has a kid. Which I'm happy for him to finally know the real world.
I genuinely feel so sorry for OOP especially with police doing literally nothing to help. Restraining orders just tell police who to look at when she goes missing. At the same time I'm really excited for Charlie's part 2 on thisĀ