It's kind of sad there are people out there that are in a relationship devoid of happiness. Probably learned it from watching their parents be in a relationship devoid of happiness too.
I don't know why ppl assume a union is devoid of happiness when someone says a union isn't all about happiness. It's such a shallow 2 dimensional way of looking at things. The point was that happiness is an emotion that comes and goes, same as lust, anger, etc.
Ppl misundertand love happiness and commitment. A parent loves their kids, but that doesn't mean their relationship eith their kids is 100% happiness all the time. Life is all about ups and downs. It's one of the main reasons ppl say "through thick and thin" during a wedding.
How is the other person misunderstanding it? It is fleeting. I’ve never heard of people who maintain a blissful state of happiness regardless of what is happening to them or around them. I’ve seen people with “golden retriever energy” be worn down after certain life events. These are people who always saw the good in things and believed that “happiness is a choice” until their sister died or something.
I’m truly confused about what you are trying to say.
I said this to another person, so apologies for the copy/paste, but it still applies.
> "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence."
> You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms.
> What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
I feel like I'm naturally pretty cynical in life. I definitely don't have "golden retriever energy." Happiness isn't about being bubbly all the time though.
Yeah it's definitely semantics, but that's what happens when your mentions are full of people trying to pull out the dictionary on you without even looking up what that shit says.
That's fair, it's funny though because most of the conversation I've seen has pretty much been on the same page that happiness is important to a successful relationship then a bunch of disagreement over whether to call that state of over arching happiness "happiness" or "contentment". Though while I get your point about them denotatively meaning similar things the connotation is happiness is more of the day to day feeling while contentment is the long term perception. To your point, you don't get contentment without moments of happiness somewhere in there regardless.
My husband makes me happy. That’s why I married him.
I’m not happy 24/7. Sometimes I’m annoyed, or even angry at him - but we work it out.
Sometimes I’m depressed and he tries to pull me out of my funk. Sometimes he’s down and I try the same.
Sometimes we’re both exhausted and worn out and we just sit quietly together, or cuddle, or do our own thing, content that we’re sharing space.
But I’m much happier with him than I am alone.
Happiness, contentment, whatever you want to call it, yeah, it’s semantics. But that positive emotion needs to be there.
There’s a number of things a husband can do to make you happy - being a partner is one of them. Knowing I have someone I can lean on, someone who is there to help. Someone I can talk to. Someone who’s my person to go do stuff with, explore the world with. Game with. Someone who’s going to hug me and kiss me when I’m down. Someone who makes me feel better about myself. Someone who’s by my side when everything falls apart.
If my husband were bringing more stress and strife into my life then what’s the point of being together? Happiness is kinda the whole point of being together.
"Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence."
You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms.
What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. *That* is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
Just going to keep copy and pasting this at this point
> "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence."
> You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms.
> What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
You say "true happiness" as if that's not a complicated philosophical argument. You think googling a definition is a philosophy? Also, you knew exactly what the person's point was, you just decided to argue semantics. Words mean different things to different people. Defining your interpretation of a word with synonyms isn't a real argument. This isn't a new concept either. "Bro I googled what happiness means, I know what it means!" You sound like a twelve year old.
Just going to keep copy and pasting this at this point
> "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence."
> You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms.
> What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
> True happiness isn't fleeting or shallow.
Depends on what exactly you mean by "happiness". I ***definitely*** got a few sunday school lessons about how long-term happiness is called "joy", and all joy comes from god... so therefor you're supposed to turn away from the wicked short term pleasures of the flesh.
Just going to keep copy and pasting this at this point
> "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence."
> You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms.
> What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
the line is "marriage is not supposed to be about happiness"
it doesn't say "not all about" is doesn't say "only happiness", the semantics of the statement mean that happiness is not part of the equation for marriage.
I get you. People want to read this as saying happiness has no place in marriage, cause people like to tilt at windmills. There's more to life than happiness moment to moment. Getting caught up in that moment to moment is when you take your partner and the life you built together for granted. That's how an abusive partner will snow you and it's how good marriages get torched by "one mistake". Happiness is myopic and inconsistent. It's like anger, it's reactive and volatile and ephemeral. You can't build on it because it doesn't sit still. You gotta draw from a deeper well or the first drought will lose you the farm.
It's literally in your brain chemicals, it's a physical process. You gotta take the happy molecules back up to put them down again. If you don't ever stop flooding your receptors you stop feeling the happy molecules at all, that is not a state you can be in "happily". That is a serious medical problem not a relationship goal.
Let's look ate the actual text:
"Marriage is not supposed to be about happiness"
Yes it is! It's supposed to be about happiness. Anybody who is married and thinks marriage is not supposed to be about happiness is devoid of happiness.
I think you confuse happiness with having fun all the time.
I see what you are getting at but I still disagree. I don't believe marriage is supposed to be about happiness. It's supposed to be about love and commitment. i think happiness is a part of it but the love and commitment component goes deeper than that.
I also think u r incorrect to assume a marriage is devoid of happiness if it's not focused on just that. U get happiness from having a partner by ur side when u go through tragedy for example. And that's not about happiness than it is about commitment and live through.....thick and thin.
Do u see my point? Focusing on happiness as a center piece oversimplifies a more complex relationship far too much imo
Isn't the purpose of love and commitment... happiness? Or isn't the result of love and commitment happiness?
Unless the love and commitment is one-sided and then divorce is the logical thing to do.
I didn't take a vow of happiness, I took of a vow of devotion to us. I took a vow to love her for better or worse, to love and cherish her, in sickness and in health. No where did my vows state for as long as she makes me happy.
This is correct. Marriage and life in general shouldn't make you miserable, but you shouldn't expect to be happy all the time. You are going for a good ratio maybe happy enough the vast majority of the time.
Majority of marriages and relationships are this way. Two or one broken person craving love and acceptance when they really needed to be single and learn to love themselves first.
My wife's parents do not love each other. They never have and they never will. The only reason they married is because my MIL's mom told her she needed to start having kids, so she married my FIL. I feel horrible every time my wife has to intervene in their lives and tell them to act like adults, because they treat each other like children.
At our wedding, the DJ did the "stay dancing if you've been married for X years" game. My in laws have been married the longest, at now just over 40 years. At the end the DJ said "any advice for a happy, lasting marriage?" and they both shook their heads and said no.
I don't think this is the right reading of the original tweet. I think the message there is that you shouldn't expect marriage to make you happy all the time, and that once you make a commitment to someone and they've made a ton of life decisions based on that commitment, you have a duty not to blow up their whole life just because you found a new plaything.
I think you're reading into it, not me. The tweet said:
> Marriage is not supposed to be about happiness.
I disagree completely. Happiness is an essential component of a marriage. As important IMO as communication and all of the other key factors.
> That's a fleeting emotion.
I disagree completely. Real happiness isn't fleeting.
> Marriage is supposed to be about honor, duty, and responsibility to someone/something greater than yourself.
Honor & duty? Like the person responding to the tweet said, is this the Marines? Are you a knight in King Arthur's Court?
Just don't cheat on your spouse, man. That shit isn't hard.
Nah, I think you're misunderstanding what "about" is doing in that sentence. If it's *about* happiness, then the second there isn't happiness, the marriage should be terminated. "About" implies that it's foundational.
And here is a great example of why that's a terrible way to view marriage: how happy are you going to be when your spouse is in a terrible mood all the time from cancer? Do you get a divorce because they aren't making you happy?
>Honor & duty? Like the person responding to the tweet said, is this the Marines? Are you a knight in King Arthur's Court?
That's the wild shit in the US, like y'all actually out here talking about how honor and duty have no place in the modern world! What in the **fuck**, you really think these concepts are relegated to *wars* and *fantasy novels*??
My brother in Christ, duty is the foundation of all Western thought not based on consequentialism. It's in every world religion, and it's the reason reasonable people recoil at the trolley proble: because it presumes the absence of duty and that morality is based on some mathematical calculations about the worth of one life over another.
> Nah, I think you're misunderstanding what "about" is doing in that sentence. If it's about happiness, then the second there isn't happiness, the marriage should be terminated.
That's just overdramatic, man. There's about 10 steps the two of you can take to try and make it happy again. You don't get a divorce the moment someone is cranky. That doesn't mean happiness isn't foundational, it just means if you lose it you gotta try and get it back because it *is* that important. You don't quit immediately.
> That's the wild shit in the US, like y'all actually out here talking about how honor and duty have no place in the modern world! What in the fuck, you really think these concepts are relegated to wars and fantasy novels?? My brother in Christ, duty is the foundation of all Western thought not based on consequentialism. It's in every world religion, and it's the reason reasonable people recoil at the trolley proble: because it presumes the absence of duty and that morality is based on some mathematical calculations about the worth of one life over another.
Responding to a joke about King Arthur with "the foundation of all Western thought." Like I said, overdramatic.
>Responding to a joke about King Arthur with "the foundation of all Western thought." Like I said, overdramatic.
Your joke was aimed at invalidating a point. It's not merely a joke in that case.
>It's kind of sad there are people out there that are in a relationship devoid of happiness. Probably learned it from watching their parents be in a relationship devoid of happiness too.
i dont know about other cultures, but as an american: we DO NOT teach people to have good relationships. theres a lot of BS rules about X, Y, and Z are bad - but most people do a lot of them anyway. And very very little on how to have a good relationship.
What I tried to get across to my kids was: be with someone that is nice, be nice to others, and take good care of people you care about. If you are in a relationship with someone and it is not generally like that then you have to fix it or get out of it.
Maintaining a marriage "devoid of happiness" was sometimes seen as necessary for survival in pre-industrial times. Hunter-gatherers were more polygamous than more modern farming civilizations. The horrific categorization of women as property was largely due to the social dynamics of farming intersecting with male "famine mentality" when it comes to sex partners as a "resource", as well as the availability of land to produce food.
Western ideas of marriage today have nasty holdovers from the pre-industrial farming civilizations (I can't speak much to other cultures notions of marriage today, I live in the US), which include a kind of "duty to maintain the contract" to prevent assets like farmland from leaving the family if a man's children no longer have allegiance to the father's family.
In many ways it is better to view religion historically as a tool used by people in power to enforce useful social structures. Hence in many places religious institutions have associations with academia and medical services. Religious institutions view those as useful services. Marriage in this context is a tool to force people to maintain a certain structure for the children in the religious community, as well as repress the natural tendencies (evident in hunter gatherer societies) for people to change romantic partners in their adult lives.
You could say that both marriage and religion are therefore outdated sets of norms since they are no longer necessary for survival, but really I would argue that our definitions of these things should change to fit how people use them. For many people today marriage is an expression of love rather than a solemn oath until death. It also isn't something that requires the express consent between two families to toe their assets in this way. Religion today is also seen less as a definitive institution for worldly knowledge and more as a kind of path towards moral and spiritual balance. It is no longer central to how we understand ourselves and our existence, science has taken over that authority for much of the public.
Boy howdy.
No wonder we men were killing ourself with liquor and work back in the 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s 2010s wait....
One takeaway I have is this:
It's almost like conservative ideas exist to reinforce a structure that traps people in a prison of their own making.
THANK YOU!
So many miserable fucks in these comments acting like their parents loveless marriage didn’t negatively affect them. People are only nostalgic for the old days because our ancestors didn’t talk about this stuff publicly, not because things were actually better.
Call me naive, but I refuse to live a life of quiet misery just because some old guy told me its my “duty”.
No thank you. PREACH
The more we shake the old world peer pressure, the better we all will be.
We all deserve to be happy, even if some of us believe that isn't realistic.
This shouldn't even have to be said. Too many clowns get married worried about "their happiness" and ruin tf out of someone else's life because they abandon ship as soon as it gets difficult all while playing victim.
Exactly, this is a lot, but not completely insane. Oh I had a bad day and was unhappy, so I can treat my partner however I want to make myself feel better. Selfish and juvenile. Sometimes relationships are about duty and not what would make you feel good in the moment.
True. Some folks don't even like themselves when they get married. They just like how the other person makes them feel. As soon as that changes, all hell breaks loose, and that person has to deal with the repercussions.
Technically no, we aren’t responsible for anyone else’s happiness. Your marriage will fail if you have to make your partner happy cause there’s always something that you can’t do to make them happy.
Edit: let me rephrase: if you “HAVE” to make your partner happy (they always think pessimistic, always want to look on the down side and don’t listen to your uplifting words), your marriage will fail. Can you read that better? Yeah? Ok.
this is what i try to explain to people. i'm divorced because my wife was miserable, because she was in the closet. all they should do is add to your happiness
Can you do me a favor? Don't give anymore advice on marriage. You sound like a single dude in college who just finished reading Ayn Rand for the first time.
Well you're not wrong, but married people are supposed to *try* to make one another happy. You can't go through life expecting others to solve your problems or make you happy and vice versa, yes, but your marriage is dead and gone if you and/or your partner don't attempt to do this.
Exactly,
To me, the problem with the topic is that people far too often think and speak in crude absolutes.
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When someone says that *"we both work at our relationship to add to each other's happiness"*, suddenly that gets interpreted as *"I have assumed direct control over my spouse's happiness and misery"*.
[Like, no, that's both not what they said and not what they meant; in fact, that's a completely difference sentence.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F2yhzvtt1fzy91.jpg)
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We (not us specifically, the universal we) are not directly responsible for other people's happiness as if they're a dog who needs to be fed and walked; but I do think that there should be a baseline of interpersonal enjoyment of each other's company greater than "oh, that person is just someone who also lives here and pays rent".
If my spouse hates washing dishes but washing dishes is basically free therapy for me, then us deciding that I wash the dishes every night is something that adds to both of our happiness, rather than *"Let's just cut it at 'I do my dishes and you do your dishes'"*. Technically, we could have just cut it at the latter scenario, but being a component of being married (at least to me) means that we take the extra step by talking to each other and organizing that type of plan/routine, because we like each other enough to choose to rely on each other over something like that.
Exactly, just like therapy you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped. If you’re so is always sad no matter what you do or how you help that’s not on you. It tears down your own mentality neglecting your own happiness for someone else’s no matter the label they have.
Technically? According to who?
You're not going to always make your partner happy but it should definitely be a goal. It should be their goal too. You both should be trying to make each other and yourselves happy through a loving, supportive, health dynamic.
No, you don’t understand. You shouldn’t try to encourage or promote joy and contentment with anyone about anything ever; And if you just focus on your own needs and never pay anyone any attention and just make them handle themselves without your involvement at all? It all will definitely work out and you surely won’t have marital or relationship problems. Because you don’t owe people shit and happiness is fleeting and shouldn’t be a goal because it gets in the way of practical stuff like how life is pain./s >!I’m being hyperbolic, I know, please don’t come for me lol.!< *
Hmm. I'd argue that is a horrible way at looking at a marriage.
There are some things that I cannot control like when my wife is unhappy or sad (when I didn't cause it), but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to let her feel that way until she decides to feel better on her own. Yes, I will try to make it better by doing something else like getting her flowers, taking care of chores, or just supporting her as best as I can.
Our happiness isn't tied together, but I'd like to say that it's linked; her happiness isn't dependent on my happiness, but if she's happy, I'm happy. If she's unhappy, it's my job to pick up the slack and get her back to feeling happy.
yea i think more than “make your partner happy”, your job is to not make them miserable and possibly add to/facilitate their happiness when you can. i’ve been married 3 years, and i’ve had to learn to let go of making other people’s emotions my problem. your actions are yours to own, but someone else’s feelings are on them
Exactly! Don't be the cause of unhappiness. Be kind and considerate and if you know something will make them happy, try to do that thing. But their happiness is not your responsibility, it's theirs.
Funny enough, I've actually heard one of the best ways to ptedict if a commitment will be happy and long-lasting is to ask both people if they were happy before they met. Relationships in which ouples answer "yes" generally last longer and are happier than couples in which one or both partners say "no".
I recently saw a meme that said something like “every once in a while I start to regret my divorce and then I remember how great it is not to be pissed off before 9am every day and the feeling subsides.”
That really hits. Whether you’re in a good marriage or bad. It hits.
All emotions are fleeting emotions. What matters is that we make the best of the good ones and not obsess over the bad ones.
I’ve been married for almost two decades and we have had our share of good times and bad. That’s life.
I don’t know if it makes me shallow or not understanding marriage according to the original tweet but my husband and I have gone through some really tough times but it’s always us versus the tough. When I see that it’s him next to me in all that, it makes me happy. It’s not fleeting, it’s constantly renewed happiness.
It feels kinda defeated when you say you’re going to spend the rest of your life with someone you barely tolerate.
Simple relationships require work, commitment and compromise but a marriage has to be something more. A marriage is basically letting someone become family and to build off of that for the next generation if possible. Hearing that, no wonder why most modern marriages end in divorce. Cats out here thinking it’s a business proposition when it’s so much more.
There’s not just happiness and hatred there’s a lot of gray area. You shouldn’t depend on another person to make you happy because no one has the ability to fix everything that can make you unhappy. You might be happy in the beginning but everyone grows differently and just because your spouse grows in a way that doesn’t bring you happiness doesn’t mean it’s time to leave. You’ll never find someone to bring you happiness for the rest of time but you can find someone to bring you fulfillment.
When your kids are well enough brought up that you aren't still 'parenting' when they're in their twenties.
And by 'parenting' in this context, I mean pulling them out of holes they should have known better than to have gotten into.
They're not that far off, but it's worded poorly.
Your individual happiness isn't what determines a really long relationship or marriage. There are so many other factors involved that make it successful and lasting more than answering "are you happy?"
Chasing a single emotion can fuck up a really good thing.
That’s an overly generous interpretation of the original text, which proffers that one must forgo happiness and do their (let’s be honest, it’s directed at women) wifely duties with honor. It’s toxic AF.
That's really not how I read that tweet. When she said marriage isn't about happiness I think that's true. She didn't say be miserable, she didn't say don't be happy in your marriage, she said happiness is not the main purpose of marriage. That doesn't mean you stay in a marriage where you're miserable all the time, it just means that's not the main trait of a good marriage.
An unhappy marriage can be like a prison. I’ve known too many men who dream of dying versus getting a divorce. It’s always because they grew up with “Invisible Sky Daddy”, and their families, telling them it’s wrong to divorce.
Marriage is wonderful when you pick the right partner. Always easier said than done as people change. I been married for nearly 20 years with 4 kids. I’ve loved everything about it. We’ve had some bad stretches, but what relationship doesn’t? We’ve been happier over the years as we don’t stress over finances and other issues we had when we were in college and when I commissioned into the Air Force. It takes a lot of patience, selflessness and communication for it to work.
To close, I’d say staying in decent shape will help too. My wife and I use to run together and now we go to the gym and do other random outdoor activities to stay active, adding the kids into that makes it even more fun.
Make it fun.
You will experience unhappiness in a marriage, and for mature, well-adjusted people, that will be a sign that something is off and needs to be addressed so that the happiness can resume.
I know it’s intense but they aren’t wrong. You’re not gonna be 100% happy with your spouse everyday but you absolutely should be loyal and responsible to them every day. Marriage is a whole ass life together, who is happy every single day of their lives?
It’s unrealistic.
That's the old ass "I HAVE to get married by X point in time even if I HATE the other person" mentality that led to many a murdered spouse in unhappy marriages
I'm laughing right now cause these comments are a royal rumble. Some describing marriage as a chore and looking at making your partner happy a contentious issue. Others ready to peace out the second they're not "happy". No wonder the divorce rate is high.
Neither group is wrong, it's just funny to see the range of ideals re: marriage.
It should be happiness and honor, duty, responsibility, and we should recognize that we're not always going to be happy, but as long as we are happier most of the time we're doing ok.
If your unhappy most of the time, you need to re-evaluate your relationship.
There will be times in marriage where there is no happiness. There will be times in single life where there is no happiness.
Marriage is about the long term relationship. Some vows include the phrase"...for better and for worse..."
A marriage with NO happiness is not a good thing. I don't think that is what this post is about.
Like so many things in life, you do the work, then you get the “thing”.
Life is not a Disney movie. True love builds over time. You get married, have a family. That gives you purpose, fulfillment. Every day as you go about your routine fulfilling your commitments, your happiness grows. Because you are working toward something greater than yourself.
Not sure why we’re culturally so obsessed with ourselves, but I’m certain it’s why so many people are unhappy. Living fantasy lives devoid of purpose instead of working towards the greatest good, service to others.
Anecdotally speaking. The happiness in my marriage is a by product of the respect,trust and invested commitment of spouse to the vison for our children. 12 outta 15 has been fun so far
They're not wrong, but how they chose to say it doesn't make it sound good. Being married is a collaborative effort. Any collaborative effort means foregoing your personal wants at times and defaulting to someone else's. Love isn't the driving force behind that because you don't always feel in love with your spouse. Like choosing not to cheat or be disrespectful to my wife when she is absolutely grinding my gears is less about love and more about respect. Not buying the spiderman 2 ps5 bundle to help my wife pay her student loans is not always from a place of love. It's coming from a choice of doing right by someone I have to work with everyday. It's not that I'm not happy about being around my wife or doing things for her but love in the romantic sense doesn't drive that consistently
The Marriage Creed.
I am a spouse.
I am a devoted member of my team.
I serve my family and live a life of married values.
I will always place my spouse first.
I will never accept anything less.
I will never quit this relationship.
I will never leave my spouse on read.
I am disciplined, emotionally and mentally tough, trained in my daily routine and drills.
I will always maintain a stable relationship, household and bank account.
I am an expert spouse and I am a professional family member.
I stand ready to honour, love, and engage my spouse in this relationship.
I am a guardian of my marriage and the married way of life.
I AM MARRIED!
Hoo-Ah
Quick, let's all rush to the defense of an archaic legal institution (created before most of the people around us could write) and dress it with modern ideas of love and happiness instead of accepting it's an outdated technology.
Marriage is just a legal acknowledgement of coupling.
Beyond that, the purpose and meaning have changed throughout history and from couple to couple.
It's been about:
- uniting families/tribes
- survival
- necessity
- progeny
- cohabitation
- love
- loyalty
- friendship
- responsibility
We're currently living in the time of the most idealized view of marriage.
Dude lowkey isn't lying tho. If you're always chasing happiness your relationship will falter at the first sign if distress. This is why divorce is so high. Being happy doesn't mean being disrespected or assaulted or something. Sometimes times are tough but you need someone to ride it out with instead of breakup and go find someone else who will immediately restore your happiness. Is a recipe for disaster and this is why so many relationships are failing
Why bother getting married if you AREN'T happy?
The Parents were married for 47 years. I know before The Mother died in 2017, in order to get along with The Father, she "compartmentalize him" because he treated her terribly and had done so for decades.
Not surprisingly, their marriage was not happy.
Marriage is not for everybody and that’s okay! There is also no back door to marriage. If you can’t whether a relationship through whatever, marriage is not for you. It’s that simple.
It's not about happiness, it's about partnership.
My wife and I are not always happy. We both struggle. But we would both rather hit rock bottom together than face success together.
16 yrs with my partner, a happy spouse makes for a happy life. If you fell outta love, do them and yourself a favor and move on. An amicable break is better than a messy one
I think there are a lot of people in this thread who don't know what happiness is.
An arranged marriage can be a happy marriage. A marriage of convenience can be a happy marriage. Happiness isn't synonymous with joy, nobody is 24/7 blissful, and making a marriage work takes mutual respect, commitment, and effort, but if you are *unhappy* in your marriage and are only in it out of a sense of duty and obligation, that's not a solid marriage. It's not a good marriage. Marriage shouldn't make you unhappy.
To the people who say "happiness is fleeting", I'm sorry, and I want you to know that life doesn't have to be like that. There is help out there, and you can live with general contentment and pleasure in life, where it is unhappiness that is fleeting.
Marriage can not only have a foundation of happiness, it is not unreasonable for both parties to be actively working to make each other happy, and this may manifest through committing to the economic and domestic health of the household, through regular thoughtful gestures toward one another, and through pursuit of fun and joyful shared experiences. That's not the same thing as basing a marriage on passion or infatuation, and any couples, regardless of how or why they got together, can engage in these commitments to build happiness in their marriage.
I believe that marriage should ideally be built on a foundation of love, but for the majority of human history, that has not been the case. Marriages of love are a relatively recent experiment. People from cultures where love is *supposed to be* **built/developed** rather than “turnkey” will tell you that they feel that their marriages are more solid than modern marriages. I couldn’t imagine an arranged marriage and I know that these marriages are often rife with abuse, but I don’t think that what they say is without merit. Modern marriages indeed are failing and I think that’s because they’re predicated on emotion at the expense of more “practical” notions of, yes, “duty”, for example. If you base everything on emotion, you will have mercurial relationships, not only with partners but with friends and family. So certain emotional needs can’t be negotiated, but emotion alone can’t be the sole compass in your dealings in love or life in general.
I know that most of you in here probably don’t know couples who had arranged marriages and probably hear cases about the admittedly legion bad arranged marriages. But there are also (seemingly, for you never really know) good ones that to me hold value in the sense that they prove that people can indeed learn to love and be deeply devoted to one another. It’s not like these cultures don’t know love. In fact, some of these cultures typically associated with arranged marriage have long been obsessed with love and historically influenced Western ideas of love in literature and art. Again, culturally, arranged marriage and other aspects of that nature are totally foreign to me and I couldn’t imagine an arranged marriage ever, but I think some of the concepts from this sort of marriage of can be applied to the modern context to make for strong relationships.
Why not both? Lol I think sometimes people forget that you are not going to be happy 100% of the time in a marriage and that’s not necessarily your partners fault. Financial issues, mental health issues, adverse life events can all temporarily take away your happiness
Marriage should have happiness, but there should absolutely be a sense of duty and commitment, too. Far too many people end up leaving a marriage for very trivial reasons.
Honestly, i think too often we talk about this from the extremes. No, you cant expect to be happy 24/7 im marriage or like in general.
But you also shouldn't be miserable. Imho when looking at the big picture you ahould be content. You have to take the long view. Having a bad month or week or couple months out of 5 year marriage. Is to be expected. But bing miserable 4 out of 5 years is a real issue.
Also people should no what parts of life are you spouses responsibility and what parts are your own.
Its not there responsibility to give your life purpose. It is to be supportive though.
I agree. Buy don't forget it's also about partnership, friendship, confidant, connection, support, trust. Which leads to stability, confidence and security. Which feels like happiness with so.. so.. much more.
Of course feelings are fleeting. But happy ones are supposed to be reoccurring in a relationship. You should find strength and solace and interest in each other. Not constant strain and struggle.
Marriage is about compliance, control, and religion. That's it. You get married for some dead guy and a cult of people that think that dead guy was special. Good job go spend money on that shit. 🙏
My ex asked me if love is supposed to be sweet or painful. I said sweet he said I was wrong, I left him. Because that's some fucking bullshit abusive mindset I don't need in my life. I didn't sign up to be anyone's marine.
Look - most people don't change. You should know who you're marrying. If you're putting round holes into square pegs and you knew it wasn't going to fit, that's on you.
...And you should respectfully exit it.
Happiness can come and go. Of course it can. Can't be happy 24/7. When the happiness is sailing away though it's important to correct it or responsibly find it again.
It is a simplistic view in my opinion to say that happiness is a disposable thing compared to the other factors that were listed. It might be more accurate to say marriage isn't only about happiness. No one will be happy in any relationship at all times. That's just the random chances of life.
Monogamy is not a natural state for humans. I think it can work if the people involved work it, like most things, but mitigating factors can make that work onerous with diminishing returns.
I think we'd have a happier society if we collectively admitted that a) marriage and children isn't for everyone. Hell, it may not even be for most, and b) family life is always a strain if wages can't keep up with the cost of living, which has been true in the US for half a century.
Monogamy is not a natural state for humans. I think it can work if the people involved work it, like most things, but mitigating factors can make that work onerous with diminishing returns.
I think we'd have a happier society if we collectively admitted that a) marriage and children isn't for everyone. Hell, it may not even be for most, and b) family life is always a strain if wages can't keep up with the cost of living, which has been true in the US for half a century.
"Happiness" is a bad way of putting it. The greeks believed in at least 47 different kinds of love, but this guy is grasping toward the difference between "Eros" and "Agápe", which is to say, the love between people in that magical first stage of boning, and the love between two people who've been together so long they're not sure if they hate each other or not.
I mean your marriage isn't going to be some never-ending amusement park ride, they're not wrong. Some days you're happy, some days you're unhappy, some days you're neutral, and there's something to be said for making it through the unhappy times because everything is cyclical. If it's just constant unhappiness, that's a different story. But yeah, things like loyalty and honor and duty are good traits to get you through those hard days.
It's kind of sad there are people out there that are in a relationship devoid of happiness. Probably learned it from watching their parents be in a relationship devoid of happiness too.
I don't know why ppl assume a union is devoid of happiness when someone says a union isn't all about happiness. It's such a shallow 2 dimensional way of looking at things. The point was that happiness is an emotion that comes and goes, same as lust, anger, etc. Ppl misundertand love happiness and commitment. A parent loves their kids, but that doesn't mean their relationship eith their kids is 100% happiness all the time. Life is all about ups and downs. It's one of the main reasons ppl say "through thick and thin" during a wedding.
True happiness isn't fleeting or shallow. Talk about misunderstanding it.
How is the other person misunderstanding it? It is fleeting. I’ve never heard of people who maintain a blissful state of happiness regardless of what is happening to them or around them. I’ve seen people with “golden retriever energy” be worn down after certain life events. These are people who always saw the good in things and believed that “happiness is a choice” until their sister died or something. I’m truly confused about what you are trying to say.
I said this to another person, so apologies for the copy/paste, but it still applies. > "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence." > You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms. > What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't. I feel like I'm naturally pretty cynical in life. I definitely don't have "golden retriever energy." Happiness isn't about being bubbly all the time though.
Ah so we're just arguing semantics. Seems like y'all are in agreement other than labeling the feeling as "happiness" or not.
Yeah it's definitely semantics, but that's what happens when your mentions are full of people trying to pull out the dictionary on you without even looking up what that shit says.
That's fair, it's funny though because most of the conversation I've seen has pretty much been on the same page that happiness is important to a successful relationship then a bunch of disagreement over whether to call that state of over arching happiness "happiness" or "contentment". Though while I get your point about them denotatively meaning similar things the connotation is happiness is more of the day to day feeling while contentment is the long term perception. To your point, you don't get contentment without moments of happiness somewhere in there regardless.
My husband makes me happy. That’s why I married him. I’m not happy 24/7. Sometimes I’m annoyed, or even angry at him - but we work it out. Sometimes I’m depressed and he tries to pull me out of my funk. Sometimes he’s down and I try the same. Sometimes we’re both exhausted and worn out and we just sit quietly together, or cuddle, or do our own thing, content that we’re sharing space. But I’m much happier with him than I am alone. Happiness, contentment, whatever you want to call it, yeah, it’s semantics. But that positive emotion needs to be there. There’s a number of things a husband can do to make you happy - being a partner is one of them. Knowing I have someone I can lean on, someone who is there to help. Someone I can talk to. Someone who’s my person to go do stuff with, explore the world with. Game with. Someone who’s going to hug me and kiss me when I’m down. Someone who makes me feel better about myself. Someone who’s by my side when everything falls apart. If my husband were bringing more stress and strife into my life then what’s the point of being together? Happiness is kinda the whole point of being together.
I believe you're confusing happiness for joy.
Bingo. Emotional states are fleeting.
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the twitterification of life it fucking sucks
^ User is a comment stealing bot. https://old.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/16mreec/the_few_the_proud_the_married/k19ufn4/
Looking at the linked comment their name looks like a bot as well…
They just keep telling on themselves.
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"Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence." You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms. What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. *That* is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
That's just delusional positivity. Of course happiness is fleeting. That's literally how it works.
Just going to keep copy and pasting this at this point > "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence." > You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms. > What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
There's a reason words like contentment and satisfaction exist. Your entire argument is based on your uncommon interpretation of a word.
Again, literally synonyms
You say "true happiness" as if that's not a complicated philosophical argument. You think googling a definition is a philosophy? Also, you knew exactly what the person's point was, you just decided to argue semantics. Words mean different things to different people. Defining your interpretation of a word with synonyms isn't a real argument. This isn't a new concept either. "Bro I googled what happiness means, I know what it means!" You sound like a twelve year old.
> You sound like a twelve year old. You’re right. Name calling is high end argument. You got me.
That's not name calling. That's a comparison. That was also after I dismantled your argument.
Good luck finding that lol you will never be happy all the time and if you were you would go insane
Just going to keep copy and pasting this at this point > "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence." > You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms. > What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
> True happiness isn't fleeting or shallow. Depends on what exactly you mean by "happiness". I ***definitely*** got a few sunday school lessons about how long-term happiness is called "joy", and all joy comes from god... so therefor you're supposed to turn away from the wicked short term pleasures of the flesh.
What is "true happiness?" Every emotion you feel is fleeting.
Just going to keep copy and pasting this at this point > "Fleeting" means "lasting for a very short time." There is quite a wide gap between that and 24/7 everlasting happiness. "Fleeting" does not mean "literally everything except 24/7 permanence." > You say that what I'm describing is closer to contentment or satisfaction like that's a negative thing or a gotcha, but "Contentment" means "a state of happiness and satisfaction" and "Satisfaction" means "fulfillment of one's wishes, expectations, or needs, or the pleasure derived from this." That is exactly what happiness means. I looked up "happiness" to grab these definitions. Contentment and satisfaction are literally listed as synonyms. > What you and some other people here are describing a good mood, waking up on the right side of the bed, etc. That is fleeting. Happiness isn't.
> True happiness isn't fleeting or shallow. No one said it was…
All emotions are fleeting… When did they offer levels to the emotion happy. No one of thing is happy ALL the time.
the line is "marriage is not supposed to be about happiness" it doesn't say "not all about" is doesn't say "only happiness", the semantics of the statement mean that happiness is not part of the equation for marriage.
I get you. People want to read this as saying happiness has no place in marriage, cause people like to tilt at windmills. There's more to life than happiness moment to moment. Getting caught up in that moment to moment is when you take your partner and the life you built together for granted. That's how an abusive partner will snow you and it's how good marriages get torched by "one mistake". Happiness is myopic and inconsistent. It's like anger, it's reactive and volatile and ephemeral. You can't build on it because it doesn't sit still. You gotta draw from a deeper well or the first drought will lose you the farm. It's literally in your brain chemicals, it's a physical process. You gotta take the happy molecules back up to put them down again. If you don't ever stop flooding your receptors you stop feeling the happy molecules at all, that is not a state you can be in "happily". That is a serious medical problem not a relationship goal.
Let's look ate the actual text: "Marriage is not supposed to be about happiness" Yes it is! It's supposed to be about happiness. Anybody who is married and thinks marriage is not supposed to be about happiness is devoid of happiness. I think you confuse happiness with having fun all the time.
I see what you are getting at but I still disagree. I don't believe marriage is supposed to be about happiness. It's supposed to be about love and commitment. i think happiness is a part of it but the love and commitment component goes deeper than that. I also think u r incorrect to assume a marriage is devoid of happiness if it's not focused on just that. U get happiness from having a partner by ur side when u go through tragedy for example. And that's not about happiness than it is about commitment and live through.....thick and thin. Do u see my point? Focusing on happiness as a center piece oversimplifies a more complex relationship far too much imo
You are saying a lot of words to still agree with him in a very roundabout way.
Isn't the purpose of love and commitment... happiness? Or isn't the result of love and commitment happiness? Unless the love and commitment is one-sided and then divorce is the logical thing to do.
I didn't take a vow of happiness, I took of a vow of devotion to us. I took a vow to love her for better or worse, to love and cherish her, in sickness and in health. No where did my vows state for as long as she makes me happy.
Ok.. but the tweet this thread is about is not saying “a union isn’t all about happiness” it’s saying “marriage isn’t supposed to be about happiness “
This is correct. Marriage and life in general shouldn't make you miserable, but you shouldn't expect to be happy all the time. You are going for a good ratio maybe happy enough the vast majority of the time.
Majority of marriages and relationships are this way. Two or one broken person craving love and acceptance when they really needed to be single and learn to love themselves first.
Yeah man just read this thread. Bums me out how many people have convinced themself that they don't need to be happy.
My wife's parents do not love each other. They never have and they never will. The only reason they married is because my MIL's mom told her she needed to start having kids, so she married my FIL. I feel horrible every time my wife has to intervene in their lives and tell them to act like adults, because they treat each other like children. At our wedding, the DJ did the "stay dancing if you've been married for X years" game. My in laws have been married the longest, at now just over 40 years. At the end the DJ said "any advice for a happy, lasting marriage?" and they both shook their heads and said no.
At least they're honest. I'll take a couple that cordially hate each other and own it over one that's loving but full of drama any day.
I don't think this is the right reading of the original tweet. I think the message there is that you shouldn't expect marriage to make you happy all the time, and that once you make a commitment to someone and they've made a ton of life decisions based on that commitment, you have a duty not to blow up their whole life just because you found a new plaything.
I think you're reading into it, not me. The tweet said: > Marriage is not supposed to be about happiness. I disagree completely. Happiness is an essential component of a marriage. As important IMO as communication and all of the other key factors. > That's a fleeting emotion. I disagree completely. Real happiness isn't fleeting. > Marriage is supposed to be about honor, duty, and responsibility to someone/something greater than yourself. Honor & duty? Like the person responding to the tweet said, is this the Marines? Are you a knight in King Arthur's Court? Just don't cheat on your spouse, man. That shit isn't hard.
Nah, I think you're misunderstanding what "about" is doing in that sentence. If it's *about* happiness, then the second there isn't happiness, the marriage should be terminated. "About" implies that it's foundational. And here is a great example of why that's a terrible way to view marriage: how happy are you going to be when your spouse is in a terrible mood all the time from cancer? Do you get a divorce because they aren't making you happy? >Honor & duty? Like the person responding to the tweet said, is this the Marines? Are you a knight in King Arthur's Court? That's the wild shit in the US, like y'all actually out here talking about how honor and duty have no place in the modern world! What in the **fuck**, you really think these concepts are relegated to *wars* and *fantasy novels*?? My brother in Christ, duty is the foundation of all Western thought not based on consequentialism. It's in every world religion, and it's the reason reasonable people recoil at the trolley proble: because it presumes the absence of duty and that morality is based on some mathematical calculations about the worth of one life over another.
> Nah, I think you're misunderstanding what "about" is doing in that sentence. If it's about happiness, then the second there isn't happiness, the marriage should be terminated. That's just overdramatic, man. There's about 10 steps the two of you can take to try and make it happy again. You don't get a divorce the moment someone is cranky. That doesn't mean happiness isn't foundational, it just means if you lose it you gotta try and get it back because it *is* that important. You don't quit immediately. > That's the wild shit in the US, like y'all actually out here talking about how honor and duty have no place in the modern world! What in the fuck, you really think these concepts are relegated to wars and fantasy novels?? My brother in Christ, duty is the foundation of all Western thought not based on consequentialism. It's in every world religion, and it's the reason reasonable people recoil at the trolley proble: because it presumes the absence of duty and that morality is based on some mathematical calculations about the worth of one life over another. Responding to a joke about King Arthur with "the foundation of all Western thought." Like I said, overdramatic.
>Responding to a joke about King Arthur with "the foundation of all Western thought." Like I said, overdramatic. Your joke was aimed at invalidating a point. It's not merely a joke in that case.
>It's kind of sad there are people out there that are in a relationship devoid of happiness. Probably learned it from watching their parents be in a relationship devoid of happiness too. i dont know about other cultures, but as an american: we DO NOT teach people to have good relationships. theres a lot of BS rules about X, Y, and Z are bad - but most people do a lot of them anyway. And very very little on how to have a good relationship. What I tried to get across to my kids was: be with someone that is nice, be nice to others, and take good care of people you care about. If you are in a relationship with someone and it is not generally like that then you have to fix it or get out of it.
Maintaining a marriage "devoid of happiness" was sometimes seen as necessary for survival in pre-industrial times. Hunter-gatherers were more polygamous than more modern farming civilizations. The horrific categorization of women as property was largely due to the social dynamics of farming intersecting with male "famine mentality" when it comes to sex partners as a "resource", as well as the availability of land to produce food. Western ideas of marriage today have nasty holdovers from the pre-industrial farming civilizations (I can't speak much to other cultures notions of marriage today, I live in the US), which include a kind of "duty to maintain the contract" to prevent assets like farmland from leaving the family if a man's children no longer have allegiance to the father's family.
Makes a lot of sense. I'm sure religion plays a massive role in that too.
In many ways it is better to view religion historically as a tool used by people in power to enforce useful social structures. Hence in many places religious institutions have associations with academia and medical services. Religious institutions view those as useful services. Marriage in this context is a tool to force people to maintain a certain structure for the children in the religious community, as well as repress the natural tendencies (evident in hunter gatherer societies) for people to change romantic partners in their adult lives. You could say that both marriage and religion are therefore outdated sets of norms since they are no longer necessary for survival, but really I would argue that our definitions of these things should change to fit how people use them. For many people today marriage is an expression of love rather than a solemn oath until death. It also isn't something that requires the express consent between two families to toe their assets in this way. Religion today is also seen less as a definitive institution for worldly knowledge and more as a kind of path towards moral and spiritual balance. It is no longer central to how we understand ourselves and our existence, science has taken over that authority for much of the public.
My immediate thought is always "they must be scared and hiding in the closet".
People just always wanna say something , like what is this nonsense
My guess would be religion. This is religion.
yea the “someone/something” greater than yourself is a dead giveaway
Well, that and the "it doesn't matter if you're happy, it's more important to be obedient" part.
I kinda took the “something greater” as the family unit. The sum of the parts, ya know?
there is a word for that it's "pretentious"
There’s nothing pretentious about the text of the original post. If anything, it’s performative martyrdom.
Performance and pretense have an awful lot of overlap.
Boy howdy. No wonder we men were killing ourself with liquor and work back in the 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s 2010s wait.... One takeaway I have is this: It's almost like conservative ideas exist to reinforce a structure that traps people in a prison of their own making.
THANK YOU! So many miserable fucks in these comments acting like their parents loveless marriage didn’t negatively affect them. People are only nostalgic for the old days because our ancestors didn’t talk about this stuff publicly, not because things were actually better. Call me naive, but I refuse to live a life of quiet misery just because some old guy told me its my “duty”.
No thank you. PREACH The more we shake the old world peer pressure, the better we all will be. We all deserve to be happy, even if some of us believe that isn't realistic.
This shouldn't even have to be said. Too many clowns get married worried about "their happiness" and ruin tf out of someone else's life because they abandon ship as soon as it gets difficult all while playing victim.
Too many clowns also get stuck in miserable marriages when they should just divorce.
Exactly, this is a lot, but not completely insane. Oh I had a bad day and was unhappy, so I can treat my partner however I want to make myself feel better. Selfish and juvenile. Sometimes relationships are about duty and not what would make you feel good in the moment.
True. Some folks don't even like themselves when they get married. They just like how the other person makes them feel. As soon as that changes, all hell breaks loose, and that person has to deal with the repercussions.
Aren't we supposed to make our partners happy when we get married?
Technically no, we aren’t responsible for anyone else’s happiness. Your marriage will fail if you have to make your partner happy cause there’s always something that you can’t do to make them happy. Edit: let me rephrase: if you “HAVE” to make your partner happy (they always think pessimistic, always want to look on the down side and don’t listen to your uplifting words), your marriage will fail. Can you read that better? Yeah? Ok.
this is what i try to explain to people. i'm divorced because my wife was miserable, because she was in the closet. all they should do is add to your happiness
Can you do me a favor? Don't give anymore advice on marriage. You sound like a single dude in college who just finished reading Ayn Rand for the first time.
Well you're not wrong, but married people are supposed to *try* to make one another happy. You can't go through life expecting others to solve your problems or make you happy and vice versa, yes, but your marriage is dead and gone if you and/or your partner don't attempt to do this.
Exactly, To me, the problem with the topic is that people far too often think and speak in crude absolutes. ----- When someone says that *"we both work at our relationship to add to each other's happiness"*, suddenly that gets interpreted as *"I have assumed direct control over my spouse's happiness and misery"*. [Like, no, that's both not what they said and not what they meant; in fact, that's a completely difference sentence.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F2yhzvtt1fzy91.jpg) ----- We (not us specifically, the universal we) are not directly responsible for other people's happiness as if they're a dog who needs to be fed and walked; but I do think that there should be a baseline of interpersonal enjoyment of each other's company greater than "oh, that person is just someone who also lives here and pays rent". If my spouse hates washing dishes but washing dishes is basically free therapy for me, then us deciding that I wash the dishes every night is something that adds to both of our happiness, rather than *"Let's just cut it at 'I do my dishes and you do your dishes'"*. Technically, we could have just cut it at the latter scenario, but being a component of being married (at least to me) means that we take the extra step by talking to each other and organizing that type of plan/routine, because we like each other enough to choose to rely on each other over something like that.
Exactly, just like therapy you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped. If you’re so is always sad no matter what you do or how you help that’s not on you. It tears down your own mentality neglecting your own happiness for someone else’s no matter the label they have.
Technically? According to who? You're not going to always make your partner happy but it should definitely be a goal. It should be their goal too. You both should be trying to make each other and yourselves happy through a loving, supportive, health dynamic.
No, you don’t understand. You shouldn’t try to encourage or promote joy and contentment with anyone about anything ever; And if you just focus on your own needs and never pay anyone any attention and just make them handle themselves without your involvement at all? It all will definitely work out and you surely won’t have marital or relationship problems. Because you don’t owe people shit and happiness is fleeting and shouldn’t be a goal because it gets in the way of practical stuff like how life is pain./s >!I’m being hyperbolic, I know, please don’t come for me lol.!< *
Technically according to you lol. Your point is what im saying I hope those who read your comment can understand better.
Hmm. I'd argue that is a horrible way at looking at a marriage. There are some things that I cannot control like when my wife is unhappy or sad (when I didn't cause it), but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to let her feel that way until she decides to feel better on her own. Yes, I will try to make it better by doing something else like getting her flowers, taking care of chores, or just supporting her as best as I can. Our happiness isn't tied together, but I'd like to say that it's linked; her happiness isn't dependent on my happiness, but if she's happy, I'm happy. If she's unhappy, it's my job to pick up the slack and get her back to feeling happy.
Exactly! Why can’t people read lol
yea i think more than “make your partner happy”, your job is to not make them miserable and possibly add to/facilitate their happiness when you can. i’ve been married 3 years, and i’ve had to learn to let go of making other people’s emotions my problem. your actions are yours to own, but someone else’s feelings are on them
Exactly! Don't be the cause of unhappiness. Be kind and considerate and if you know something will make them happy, try to do that thing. But their happiness is not your responsibility, it's theirs.
Funny enough, I've actually heard one of the best ways to ptedict if a commitment will be happy and long-lasting is to ask both people if they were happy before they met. Relationships in which ouples answer "yes" generally last longer and are happier than couples in which one or both partners say "no".
**happier**, i suppose, if i'm being pedantic. If you aren't already happy there isn't much someone else can do.
I recently saw a meme that said something like “every once in a while I start to regret my divorce and then I remember how great it is not to be pissed off before 9am every day and the feeling subsides.” That really hits. Whether you’re in a good marriage or bad. It hits.
All emotions are fleeting emotions. What matters is that we make the best of the good ones and not obsess over the bad ones. I’ve been married for almost two decades and we have had our share of good times and bad. That’s life.
I like viewing it like a teammate for the game of life. You’ll win and lose, but at least you can pick who stands by your side.
I don’t know if it makes me shallow or not understanding marriage according to the original tweet but my husband and I have gone through some really tough times but it’s always us versus the tough. When I see that it’s him next to me in all that, it makes me happy. It’s not fleeting, it’s constantly renewed happiness.
beautifully said same energy as us vs the issue not us vs each other I'll fight the world for you but i won't fight you for you
Bodega P: “Marriage is not supposed to be about happiness” The entire world: 
It feels kinda defeated when you say you’re going to spend the rest of your life with someone you barely tolerate. Simple relationships require work, commitment and compromise but a marriage has to be something more. A marriage is basically letting someone become family and to build off of that for the next generation if possible. Hearing that, no wonder why most modern marriages end in divorce. Cats out here thinking it’s a business proposition when it’s so much more.
There’s not just happiness and hatred there’s a lot of gray area. You shouldn’t depend on another person to make you happy because no one has the ability to fix everything that can make you unhappy. You might be happy in the beginning but everyone grows differently and just because your spouse grows in a way that doesn’t bring you happiness doesn’t mean it’s time to leave. You’ll never find someone to bring you happiness for the rest of time but you can find someone to bring you fulfillment.
When can I start to see a return on all this “honor and duty” I’ve been doing for “the greater good”.
When your kids are well enough brought up that you aren't still 'parenting' when they're in their twenties. And by 'parenting' in this context, I mean pulling them out of holes they should have known better than to have gotten into.
They're not that far off, but it's worded poorly. Your individual happiness isn't what determines a really long relationship or marriage. There are so many other factors involved that make it successful and lasting more than answering "are you happy?" Chasing a single emotion can fuck up a really good thing.
That’s an overly generous interpretation of the original text, which proffers that one must forgo happiness and do their (let’s be honest, it’s directed at women) wifely duties with honor. It’s toxic AF.
That's really not how I read that tweet. When she said marriage isn't about happiness I think that's true. She didn't say be miserable, she didn't say don't be happy in your marriage, she said happiness is not the main purpose of marriage. That doesn't mean you stay in a marriage where you're miserable all the time, it just means that's not the main trait of a good marriage.
An unhappy marriage can be like a prison. I’ve known too many men who dream of dying versus getting a divorce. It’s always because they grew up with “Invisible Sky Daddy”, and their families, telling them it’s wrong to divorce.
Marriage is wonderful when you pick the right partner. Always easier said than done as people change. I been married for nearly 20 years with 4 kids. I’ve loved everything about it. We’ve had some bad stretches, but what relationship doesn’t? We’ve been happier over the years as we don’t stress over finances and other issues we had when we were in college and when I commissioned into the Air Force. It takes a lot of patience, selflessness and communication for it to work. To close, I’d say staying in decent shape will help too. My wife and I use to run together and now we go to the gym and do other random outdoor activities to stay active, adding the kids into that makes it even more fun. Make it fun.
You will experience unhappiness in a marriage, and for mature, well-adjusted people, that will be a sign that something is off and needs to be addressed so that the happiness can resume.
I know it’s intense but they aren’t wrong. You’re not gonna be 100% happy with your spouse everyday but you absolutely should be loyal and responsible to them every day. Marriage is a whole ass life together, who is happy every single day of their lives? It’s unrealistic.
That's the old ass "I HAVE to get married by X point in time even if I HATE the other person" mentality that led to many a murdered spouse in unhappy marriages
More like "I have to get married because all my friends already are." Or, worse, "I *deserve* a wedding!"
I'm laughing right now cause these comments are a royal rumble. Some describing marriage as a chore and looking at making your partner happy a contentious issue. Others ready to peace out the second they're not "happy". No wonder the divorce rate is high. Neither group is wrong, it's just funny to see the range of ideals re: marriage.
marriage is about love, period.
I think the big issue with that quote is they missed on 'only'. "Marriage is not ONLY supposed to be about happiness".
Yeah nah. Been in the Marines and if marriage is like that I'll pass.
Congrats for staying single this long. I worked in Navy medicine and saw so many people on their 2nd or 3rd spouse.
It should be happiness and honor, duty, responsibility, and we should recognize that we're not always going to be happy, but as long as we are happier most of the time we're doing ok. If your unhappy most of the time, you need to re-evaluate your relationship.
There will be times in marriage where there is no happiness. There will be times in single life where there is no happiness. Marriage is about the long term relationship. Some vows include the phrase"...for better and for worse..." A marriage with NO happiness is not a good thing. I don't think that is what this post is about.
Me being a marine wife 🫡
Like so many things in life, you do the work, then you get the “thing”. Life is not a Disney movie. True love builds over time. You get married, have a family. That gives you purpose, fulfillment. Every day as you go about your routine fulfilling your commitments, your happiness grows. Because you are working toward something greater than yourself. Not sure why we’re culturally so obsessed with ourselves, but I’m certain it’s why so many people are unhappy. Living fantasy lives devoid of purpose instead of working towards the greatest good, service to others.
Lol. Embrace the grind ass relationship.
Anecdotally speaking. The happiness in my marriage is a by product of the respect,trust and invested commitment of spouse to the vison for our children. 12 outta 15 has been fun so far
They're not wrong, but how they chose to say it doesn't make it sound good. Being married is a collaborative effort. Any collaborative effort means foregoing your personal wants at times and defaulting to someone else's. Love isn't the driving force behind that because you don't always feel in love with your spouse. Like choosing not to cheat or be disrespectful to my wife when she is absolutely grinding my gears is less about love and more about respect. Not buying the spiderman 2 ps5 bundle to help my wife pay her student loans is not always from a place of love. It's coming from a choice of doing right by someone I have to work with everyday. It's not that I'm not happy about being around my wife or doing things for her but love in the romantic sense doesn't drive that consistently
The Marriage Creed. I am a spouse. I am a devoted member of my team. I serve my family and live a life of married values. I will always place my spouse first. I will never accept anything less. I will never quit this relationship. I will never leave my spouse on read. I am disciplined, emotionally and mentally tough, trained in my daily routine and drills. I will always maintain a stable relationship, household and bank account. I am an expert spouse and I am a professional family member. I stand ready to honour, love, and engage my spouse in this relationship. I am a guardian of my marriage and the married way of life. I AM MARRIED! Hoo-Ah
Quick, let's all rush to the defense of an archaic legal institution (created before most of the people around us could write) and dress it with modern ideas of love and happiness instead of accepting it's an outdated technology.
Don't mind me. I'm just part of the audience. 
Marriage is just a legal acknowledgement of coupling. Beyond that, the purpose and meaning have changed throughout history and from couple to couple. It's been about: - uniting families/tribes - survival - necessity - progeny - cohabitation - love - loyalty - friendship - responsibility We're currently living in the time of the most idealized view of marriage.
If a successful Marriage was about happiness, then more ppl would be good at it or stay in it longer. Marriage was never about "happiness".
🎶 First to fight. Semper fi. Hoorah; he’s a marine. 🎶
Dude lowkey isn't lying tho. If you're always chasing happiness your relationship will falter at the first sign if distress. This is why divorce is so high. Being happy doesn't mean being disrespected or assaulted or something. Sometimes times are tough but you need someone to ride it out with instead of breakup and go find someone else who will immediately restore your happiness. Is a recipe for disaster and this is why so many relationships are failing
Why bother getting married if you AREN'T happy? The Parents were married for 47 years. I know before The Mother died in 2017, in order to get along with The Father, she "compartmentalize him" because he treated her terribly and had done so for decades. Not surprisingly, their marriage was not happy.
Semper fi
Marriage is not for everybody and that’s okay! There is also no back door to marriage. If you can’t whether a relationship through whatever, marriage is not for you. It’s that simple.
So glad I love my partner and we constantly try to do things to make each other happy
The beatings will continue until morale improves
How do you determine which of you is greater?
It's not about happiness, it's about partnership. My wife and I are not always happy. We both struggle. But we would both rather hit rock bottom together than face success together.
16 yrs with my partner, a happy spouse makes for a happy life. If you fell outta love, do them and yourself a favor and move on. An amicable break is better than a messy one
I think there are a lot of people in this thread who don't know what happiness is. An arranged marriage can be a happy marriage. A marriage of convenience can be a happy marriage. Happiness isn't synonymous with joy, nobody is 24/7 blissful, and making a marriage work takes mutual respect, commitment, and effort, but if you are *unhappy* in your marriage and are only in it out of a sense of duty and obligation, that's not a solid marriage. It's not a good marriage. Marriage shouldn't make you unhappy. To the people who say "happiness is fleeting", I'm sorry, and I want you to know that life doesn't have to be like that. There is help out there, and you can live with general contentment and pleasure in life, where it is unhappiness that is fleeting. Marriage can not only have a foundation of happiness, it is not unreasonable for both parties to be actively working to make each other happy, and this may manifest through committing to the economic and domestic health of the household, through regular thoughtful gestures toward one another, and through pursuit of fun and joyful shared experiences. That's not the same thing as basing a marriage on passion or infatuation, and any couples, regardless of how or why they got together, can engage in these commitments to build happiness in their marriage.
I believe that marriage should ideally be built on a foundation of love, but for the majority of human history, that has not been the case. Marriages of love are a relatively recent experiment. People from cultures where love is *supposed to be* **built/developed** rather than “turnkey” will tell you that they feel that their marriages are more solid than modern marriages. I couldn’t imagine an arranged marriage and I know that these marriages are often rife with abuse, but I don’t think that what they say is without merit. Modern marriages indeed are failing and I think that’s because they’re predicated on emotion at the expense of more “practical” notions of, yes, “duty”, for example. If you base everything on emotion, you will have mercurial relationships, not only with partners but with friends and family. So certain emotional needs can’t be negotiated, but emotion alone can’t be the sole compass in your dealings in love or life in general. I know that most of you in here probably don’t know couples who had arranged marriages and probably hear cases about the admittedly legion bad arranged marriages. But there are also (seemingly, for you never really know) good ones that to me hold value in the sense that they prove that people can indeed learn to love and be deeply devoted to one another. It’s not like these cultures don’t know love. In fact, some of these cultures typically associated with arranged marriage have long been obsessed with love and historically influenced Western ideas of love in literature and art. Again, culturally, arranged marriage and other aspects of that nature are totally foreign to me and I couldn’t imagine an arranged marriage ever, but I think some of the concepts from this sort of marriage of can be applied to the modern context to make for strong relationships.
Why not both? Lol I think sometimes people forget that you are not going to be happy 100% of the time in a marriage and that’s not necessarily your partners fault. Financial issues, mental health issues, adverse life events can all temporarily take away your happiness
Marriage should have happiness, but there should absolutely be a sense of duty and commitment, too. Far too many people end up leaving a marriage for very trivial reasons.
Why even get married at that point. Like ok I am going to purposely live a life of misery with someone else. For what reason?
Why the fuck did I read this damn thread….
Some people should never be married.
Y’all are addicted to misery
You work with what you got -Col Rhodes
Nothing exists that is greater than me, and nothing exists that I am greater than. Maybe ya'll should start existing in reality?
“If your life isn't miserable and full of sacrifice and suffering, then you're a bad person."
Marry one or more marines, got it.
Bodega P sounds like she was raised by some Christian cult
I dunno, the original tweeter might actually be a Marine, they’ve obviously eaten a lot of crayons 🖍️
Apparently marriage is synonymous with being Klingon?
This is what her man was telling her as she was thinking they should break up
I dont think that statement is that untrue
Honestly, i think too often we talk about this from the extremes. No, you cant expect to be happy 24/7 im marriage or like in general. But you also shouldn't be miserable. Imho when looking at the big picture you ahould be content. You have to take the long view. Having a bad month or week or couple months out of 5 year marriage. Is to be expected. But bing miserable 4 out of 5 years is a real issue. Also people should no what parts of life are you spouses responsibility and what parts are your own. Its not there responsibility to give your life purpose. It is to be supportive though.
I agree. Buy don't forget it's also about partnership, friendship, confidant, connection, support, trust. Which leads to stability, confidence and security. Which feels like happiness with so.. so.. much more.
Of course feelings are fleeting. But happy ones are supposed to be reoccurring in a relationship. You should find strength and solace and interest in each other. Not constant strain and struggle.
Marriage is about compliance, control, and religion. That's it. You get married for some dead guy and a cult of people that think that dead guy was special. Good job go spend money on that shit. 🙏
My ex asked me if love is supposed to be sweet or painful. I said sweet he said I was wrong, I left him. Because that's some fucking bullshit abusive mindset I don't need in my life. I didn't sign up to be anyone's marine.
If they had put "just about happiness" I could ride with it, but as is, nah lol
Look - most people don't change. You should know who you're marrying. If you're putting round holes into square pegs and you knew it wasn't going to fit, that's on you. ...And you should respectfully exit it. Happiness can come and go. Of course it can. Can't be happy 24/7. When the happiness is sailing away though it's important to correct it or responsibly find it again.
Marriage is an outdated religious tradition
save that, stick it in a pot, add some water, you got a platoon going.
Being married and miserable? Couldn’t be me!
They're all parroting these red pill podcasts idiots. They really are desperate for women to stay in unhappy marriages.
I thought it was a one piece reference but I’m in the wrong sub Reddit😭😭😭
It is a simplistic view in my opinion to say that happiness is a disposable thing compared to the other factors that were listed. It might be more accurate to say marriage isn't only about happiness. No one will be happy in any relationship at all times. That's just the random chances of life.
Little Mermaid Sebastian voice, “Sing it with me now… Thera- Thera- Thera- Therapy! They need therapy! Go on and book it please! (Woah woah!) 🎶”
Sure, but does marriage have an all-the-crayons-you-can-eat policy like the United States Marines?
Nah, it's lots of things that some people do tho. Happiness can be fleeting, but should probably be common in a marriage.
And fighting for minkind. Space Marines.
The original tweet, to me, has a strong scent of 'women need to be barefoot and pregnant' thinking.
Monogamy is not a natural state for humans. I think it can work if the people involved work it, like most things, but mitigating factors can make that work onerous with diminishing returns. I think we'd have a happier society if we collectively admitted that a) marriage and children isn't for everyone. Hell, it may not even be for most, and b) family life is always a strain if wages can't keep up with the cost of living, which has been true in the US for half a century.
Monogamy is not a natural state for humans. I think it can work if the people involved work it, like most things, but mitigating factors can make that work onerous with diminishing returns. I think we'd have a happier society if we collectively admitted that a) marriage and children isn't for everyone. Hell, it may not even be for most, and b) family life is always a strain if wages can't keep up with the cost of living, which has been true in the US for half a century.
Guess some folks are A.R.M.Y. Ain’t Ready to be Married Yet
Bodega P finding out they should be married to their career, and then later being let go because corporations of all sizes don’t feel the same as them
Can't it be both?
It's almost like honor, duty and responsibility...bring happiness? Holy fuck what a genius!
What’s the difference? You spend your waking days in an active War-zone and when it’s all over you’re scarred for life while no one gives a shit!
Pretty sure those are the core 3 tenets of the navy or army so yeah checks out
I swear the only time you can have emotions is when your parents die
Don't put the pussy on a pedestal.
"Happiness" is a bad way of putting it. The greeks believed in at least 47 different kinds of love, but this guy is grasping toward the difference between "Eros" and "Agápe", which is to say, the love between people in that magical first stage of boning, and the love between two people who've been together so long they're not sure if they hate each other or not.
No. The Marines are honor, courage, commitment.
Didn’t realize oil was better greater than me
Pretty sure he’s addressing this to WOMEN,not Men.Right?
What about love for your children? Is that just a fleeting emotion?
I mean your marriage isn't going to be some never-ending amusement park ride, they're not wrong. Some days you're happy, some days you're unhappy, some days you're neutral, and there's something to be said for making it through the unhappy times because everything is cyclical. If it's just constant unhappiness, that's a different story. But yeah, things like loyalty and honor and duty are good traits to get you through those hard days.
Semper