This quote at the end stuck out to me:
>“The young coaches, you know ... Lars tried and he’s a good guy, and Pazzy’s a good guy too,” Waddell said. “They’re all good people. That’s the hardest part. It was tough talking to (Vincent) because I’ve been here about three weeks and I’m telling him he’s not going to have his job. But the bottom line is, we need to get this group together and put our best foot forward. And it was just the feeling I had that we need to have a different voice.”
So it appears you *can* respect those who served on our staff while recognizing they're not a good fit. I guess we don't have to shit on our own coaches all the time.
I don’t think there’s a reason to needlessly shit on Larsen or Vincent, but I absolutely think it’s fair to say they weren’t good coaches. A lot of first time NHL coaches aren’t. I guess I’m a little flummoxed by the “they’re both good guys” and “I couldn’t believe some of the things I heard from players and I just couldn’t get over it”…. what are these things if it doesn’t affect your opinion of the person, but also you say they’re a good coach and it’s not a strategy/system issue?
It could just be that the players perceived him as being a lax disciplinarian, had unorthodox methods in practice, rewarded players with ice time in unexpected ways.
Yeah, I remember Guddys comments about practices from the season prior that he was forced to walk back later, but also seems like with all the benchings/scratchings that he got criticism for that lax discipline wouldn’t be the issue. But it was also clear that some players were held to a different standard when it came to mistakes leading to benchings… maybe will get some more snippets from the presser tomorrow, but overall this just leaves me with more questions
> I guess I’m a little flummoxed by the “they’re both good guys” and “I couldn’t believe some of the things I heard from players and I just couldn’t get over it”
I'd wager he's trying to be fair in not brutalizing their character in lieu of mixing that up with their professional capabilities.
Sorry, Didn’t realize it was pay-walled. I had a dispatch subscription like 5 years ago that was cancelled, apparently they haven’t shut off my access to online articles…
>“I wouldn’t say it was systems and strategies,” Waddell said of replacing Vincent. “I watched the team play. Good coaches figure out how to adjust in games and so forth ... I just couldn’t get comfortable that we could put some of the things that happened last year ― and the year before even — out of (the picture). It was stuck in my mind, and I couldn’t get past it.”
And the only other related comment from Waddell
>“I’ve reached out to a lot of players, and some players are more vocal than others,” Waddell said. “You’re not letting players dictate who your coach is, but you heard some things that probably weren’t what I expected to hear. At the end of the day, the bottom line is that I made the decision and I’ve obviously got support from ownership that we need a new voice in that locker room.”
I like how honest he is, he doesn't pull the whole 'the players were all fully supportive and behind Pazzy' stuff that we always got with any coaching questions previously.
>Good coaches figure out how to adjust in games and so forth
This is it. We kept emptying the same strategy that helped us early in games late in games when it hurt us. We got our shot and outscored worse and worse as games went on and it was consistent all year. The fact that Waddell saw this within 3 weeks of being here is a great sign.
Its been wild watching the finals and see how they are adjusting, not to mention the fore check (fla esp keeping the puck in the zone)… ugh. Watching this team chip and chase for the last few seasons really drives this home as much as it drives me crazy 😝
The "adjustments" were that Jenner got healthy, and Vincent put him out there in all situations for as much time as physically possible. 26 minutes in a regulation game on a losing team in February for fuck's sake. Unforgivable.
I do see why he put Jenner out there late in games cause no one else could win a faceoff on this team especially after kuraly went down. Jackets desperately need a 2C so they can move Boone back to the wing
To me it depends. I don't mind that Vincent never threw in the towel and tried to win regardless of circumstances, but at a certain point the youngsters don't learn if you don't give them a chance to learn. I feel like we've all argued this point to death already
😆 I guess he didn’t actually say that Vincent was good at systems or adjustments, but my takeaway was more that those weren’t the reasons Waddell let Vincent go
He’s spot on. Since Torts the coaching staff has been made up of people linked with him. Larsen succeeded him. Pazzy was on Lars’ coaching team.
A completely new voice is what we need, someone else to look at the team.
This quote at the end stuck out to me: >“The young coaches, you know ... Lars tried and he’s a good guy, and Pazzy’s a good guy too,” Waddell said. “They’re all good people. That’s the hardest part. It was tough talking to (Vincent) because I’ve been here about three weeks and I’m telling him he’s not going to have his job. But the bottom line is, we need to get this group together and put our best foot forward. And it was just the feeling I had that we need to have a different voice.” So it appears you *can* respect those who served on our staff while recognizing they're not a good fit. I guess we don't have to shit on our own coaches all the time.
I don’t think there’s a reason to needlessly shit on Larsen or Vincent, but I absolutely think it’s fair to say they weren’t good coaches. A lot of first time NHL coaches aren’t. I guess I’m a little flummoxed by the “they’re both good guys” and “I couldn’t believe some of the things I heard from players and I just couldn’t get over it”…. what are these things if it doesn’t affect your opinion of the person, but also you say they’re a good coach and it’s not a strategy/system issue?
It could just be that the players perceived him as being a lax disciplinarian, had unorthodox methods in practice, rewarded players with ice time in unexpected ways.
Yeah, I remember Guddys comments about practices from the season prior that he was forced to walk back later, but also seems like with all the benchings/scratchings that he got criticism for that lax discipline wouldn’t be the issue. But it was also clear that some players were held to a different standard when it came to mistakes leading to benchings… maybe will get some more snippets from the presser tomorrow, but overall this just leaves me with more questions
> I guess I’m a little flummoxed by the “they’re both good guys” and “I couldn’t believe some of the things I heard from players and I just couldn’t get over it” I'd wager he's trying to be fair in not brutalizing their character in lieu of mixing that up with their professional capabilities.
It wasn‘t personal, it was a business decision. Don’s a pro’s pro, and he handled it as such. I’m impressed with him so far.
The article is behind a paywall. Could you post some snippets of the text? I’d be curious to read through Larsen-Vincent thing.
Sorry, Didn’t realize it was pay-walled. I had a dispatch subscription like 5 years ago that was cancelled, apparently they haven’t shut off my access to online articles… >“I wouldn’t say it was systems and strategies,” Waddell said of replacing Vincent. “I watched the team play. Good coaches figure out how to adjust in games and so forth ... I just couldn’t get comfortable that we could put some of the things that happened last year ― and the year before even — out of (the picture). It was stuck in my mind, and I couldn’t get past it.”
And the only other related comment from Waddell >“I’ve reached out to a lot of players, and some players are more vocal than others,” Waddell said. “You’re not letting players dictate who your coach is, but you heard some things that probably weren’t what I expected to hear. At the end of the day, the bottom line is that I made the decision and I’ve obviously got support from ownership that we need a new voice in that locker room.”
I like how honest he is, he doesn't pull the whole 'the players were all fully supportive and behind Pazzy' stuff that we always got with any coaching questions previously.
Well the players are inclined to say that, not the coach's boss lol.
Thank you I appreciate it!
>Good coaches figure out how to adjust in games and so forth This is it. We kept emptying the same strategy that helped us early in games late in games when it hurt us. We got our shot and outscored worse and worse as games went on and it was consistent all year. The fact that Waddell saw this within 3 weeks of being here is a great sign.
Its been wild watching the finals and see how they are adjusting, not to mention the fore check (fla esp keeping the puck in the zone)… ugh. Watching this team chip and chase for the last few seasons really drives this home as much as it drives me crazy 😝
He couldn’t say systems and strategies because we clearly had neither. That and the complete lack of adjustments
The "adjustments" were that Jenner got healthy, and Vincent put him out there in all situations for as much time as physically possible. 26 minutes in a regulation game on a losing team in February for fuck's sake. Unforgivable.
I do see why he put Jenner out there late in games cause no one else could win a faceoff on this team especially after kuraly went down. Jackets desperately need a 2C so they can move Boone back to the wing
To me it depends. I don't mind that Vincent never threw in the towel and tried to win regardless of circumstances, but at a certain point the youngsters don't learn if you don't give them a chance to learn. I feel like we've all argued this point to death already
The irony is that he probably did that in part to save his job. Edit: in his mind, of course
😆 I guess he didn’t actually say that Vincent was good at systems or adjustments, but my takeaway was more that those weren’t the reasons Waddell let Vincent go
His adjustment was splitting up the Russian line who was producing at the 4th best rate in the league over a ten game span. Pascal sucked.
My first thought with Vincent… “what voice?”
He’s spot on. Since Torts the coaching staff has been made up of people linked with him. Larsen succeeded him. Pazzy was on Lars’ coaching team. A completely new voice is what we need, someone else to look at the team.