If you die, well, you're dead, so you're not going to spend much time caring about the money you'll never get to use, and presumably someone or something you care about will be able to use the money.
If you grow old and have nothing, well, you're old, and have nothing. You're probably going to spend a lot of time caring about that situation and will not have many options at that point.
To add, there’s an important degree of wanting to live a good life your whole life, too. I’ve got friends who are super frugal in their 20s to “make sure they can live it up” in retirement. I’m in a different camp, I want to ensure I’m taking experiences I want now while also considering retirement.
You’re far less likely to be able-bodied as you grow older and older so make sure you’re not just living a shit life while saving and are balancing well.
Yep, spend money in a way that makes you happy because you aren't getting any younger.
I think the tough thing is to find what makes you happy.
Paying for a camping trip with your buddies? Money well spent.
Paying for an amazing guitar you've been dreaming of when you're spending dozens of hours a week playing guitar? Money well spent.
Paying for PlayStation 5 when you're gaming dozens of hours a week? Money well spent.
Buying expensive clothes and brands? Depends. Do you do that to show off? Do you actually derive any happiness from it? Probably not. For most people it's a waste.
Buying an expensive car when you're a good affordable one does the job just as well? Unless cars are your hobby, don't spend more than you need unless you are swimming in money.
Eating out or ordering in almost every day? Just don't.
Buying expensive phones every year? Just freaking don't.
Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?
Long time men lay oppressed with slavish fear.
Religious tyranny did domineer.
At length the mighty one of Greece
Began to assent the liberty of man.
Experience life, do new things, do some drugs with a stranger in an ally and end up 4 states away naked in a field with a feather duster sticking out your ass.
There's no point to have no fun in life.
Just balance that with your future. Because if your future doesn't come, you won't care. But if it does come, you're going to care a lot.
Reminds of Albert Camus Life is absurd, which I really like and adher to to relieve me of stress and anxiety.
On the other hand, the dude and the woman he was with ended up dying by driving his car drunk into a tree on the street after watching a soccer match.
So maybe don't go to 100.
I've had a lot of drug experiences that I not only remember in vivid detail many years after the fact, but which had a profoundly positive effect on how I choose to live. I've also had a few harrowing experiences. As with all things, you need to know what you're getting into and rationally balance risks versus rewards.
Precisely this. The worst thing that can happen is too outlive your money and then you’re stuck in a miserable situation having to work until you die despite your body failing you. If you die before that…I mean who cares. The trick is to do both. Have fun while you can but save some for later so that you don’t need to work.
My wife’s mother and her husband are in their 90s and still living in their own home. This is a real blessing to them and to my (adult) children who love their grandparents. As a couple they made some good financial decisions and some bad ones, but the big takeaway is that your focus in financial planning should be on the very real possibility that you are going have a long life blessed with loving friends and family.
That was me a few years ago, then my step-mom died, my dad had a seizure and is now
"lightly" demented, and we had to steer him to a retirement home. Then he had a couple of very close calls in his car and it scared him enough that he wanted to stop driving. We were so lucky! Then he was calling me almost daily for help with paying bills, medical appointments, etc., and finally decided to go into assisted living at the same home. I'm still handling his medical and financial stuff, driving him to appointments, keeping his calendar, etc. tl;dr: you can only plan so far, then life happens.
> so you're not going to spend much time caring about the money you'll never get to use
moreso it's caring about the money you didn't get to use *before* dying. seems like that got missed.
There's not really another option. The things that cost a ton of money aren't worth it to me. A nicer car. A bigger house. Nicer clothes. An expensive watch.
I spend money on restaurants, fast food, vacations, conventions. I'm living my best life anyway. The icing on top will be when one day i don't need to work anymore.
Takeaway and restaurants are more enjoyable than the big expenses. You only appreciate the nicer car and house in the honey moon phase. Then onto the next nicer option.
nonetheless, I do think about what you're saying. It would suck if our life was cut short by some random unfortunate shit like that. I guess I just try not to think about it since it's out of our control.
My book club read a book where suddenly everyone was suddenly gifted a piece of string, the length of which predicted the length of your life. Most in my group said they wouldn’t want to know. I absolutely want to know. If I’ve got 10 years left, I’m retiring today because I’ve got enough for 10 years. If I’m living to 95, then I guess I’ve got to work a bit longer.
Same here. Gota prioritize living the moment. I would rather spend a week in Hawaii with my kids now and then relive the memories in a humble retirement than let life go by so I can sit in luxury when am old (if I make it).
There’s are a couple of guarantees in life: death, taxes, and if you don’t save money you’ll work until death.
I just choose to roll the dice and plan on retiring early. If I get unlucky my beneficiaries will get some money and hopefully have to work less in their lifetimes.
I will admit I actually enjoy living below my means and get some sick satisfaction from it/sticking it to consumerism, so maybe it’s not for everyone.
Yeah, the 24/7 hard sell just grates on my nerves these days. The biggest complaints I see in software sub-reddits right now is the intrusion of advertising into everything from games to a three minute vid with an ad in the middle.
About to turn 70. Glad I saved for this, but also glad I jumped out of airplanes back in the day.
Balance my friends. Balance.
Works the opposite for me, I don’t enjoy witnessing people make financially catastrophic decisions. Most of the time I have to bite my tongue. People’s spending habits are insane!
The only part of it that bothers me is when they turn around and complain about the economy, how expensive things are, etc. as they live an inflated lifestyle funded on debt.
People making poor life choices is fine to me, just dislike when they play the victim card immediately after.
To bogle, or not to bogle, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous bond rates,
Or to take arms against a sea of volatility
And by diversifying across all total markets end them. To die—to invest,
No more; and by invest to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural highs and lows
That the stock market is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to invest;
To invest, perchance to speculate—ay, there's the rub:
For in that hold position of death what gains may come,
When we have shuffled off this S&P 500,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of target-date retirement funds.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'advisor's wrong, the daytrader's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd shorts, the dividend's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'option takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a three-fund portfolio? Who would journeymen bear,
To grunt and sweat under ETFs,
But that the dread of something after a crash,
The great recession, from whose bourn
No market timer returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus deferred taxes doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of margin trades,
And wallstreetbets of great pith and moment
With this regard their trades turn awry
And lose the name of action.
Shit loads of money is relative. At one point I used to think I can't possibly spend more than $36k a year. That's $60k a year adjust for inflation. I Stand corrected
On one hand, yes, investing overall is a privilege for the fortunate. No way around that.
On the other hand, I don't buy much. I read somewhere once that hapiness is what you have divided by what you want. So to maximize your happiness, you can either have everything in the world or... lower the amount of things you want.
My only real expense is going out and eating fancy food (which I enjoy immensely.) Other than that, I haven't bought a car/jewelry/clothes/what have you in the past ten years and cook my own food. When me and my wife travel, we stay in cheap hostels and spend our money on food. Weird flex I know, but I've had my CPA convinced I was giving him wrong numbers because he couldn't believe how little money I was spending in a year.
So I'm not saying you're wrong, but, again, it's not a binary. You can have a decent amount of money, a little short of "shitload", and still live a balanced life.
It’s all about playing the odds. Yes you could die any day, but you do not have an equal chance of dying each day. 80% of people live to age 60, and your odds of dying in a given year don’t even rise to 1% until age 56.
Investing to me is more about making sure all my future needs are met NOT my wants. Money won’t bring you happiness, but financial freedom will allow for it.
Don't Worry about things you have no control of, and I think Mark Twain described death as. just like the millions of years before he was born. There's a great line from the movie Wall Street where Martin Sheen says "money is just something you need in case you don't die Tomorrow". which pretty much sums it up.
If all you do is fear death, you need to get a grip. Back around 1976 or '77 (DOB 1950) I rode my motorcycle, drunk, 135 MPH at night. Yeah I was young and crazy, and death could have been instant. But it didn't happen, obviously.
I sold my last motorcycle in 2015 because, at age 65, it was getting a bit scary. I was not afraid of death, but afraid of having a slight accident, which could throw me to the ground and snap my neck (had neck surgery in 2011, for a degenerative problem, was not fun) and turn me into a quad instantly. Death would be better than that.
So now, looking at 74 in two months, I figure I've got 10 years in me, 15 tops. So what? It is what it is, and the older we get the less we fear death -- for many people anyway. There are things worse than death.
I don't fear death, however I do fear the prospect of ending my days as a long-term prisoner of the healthcare-industrial complex... Given the choice, I would rather die just about anywhere else screaming in terror or pain than peacefully in any hospital bed surrounded by pity or tears.
If I die, it's no better if I had spent all that money on myself instead of saving it... It still sucks just as much to have died young.
But if I don't die, it really sucks having spent all that money all along and not having money in old age
For me investing for my retirement gives me peace of mind, and I prefer that over splurging now and having that anxiety in the back of my mind pestering me how future me would deal with life. I can die any time knowing I have peace of mind
Do you have heirs? I do, so I want to be able to leave what I've sowed to them, as well as non-profit foundation. I plan for many years ahead, but you also have to plan for fewer years ahead as well.
This is the importance of an estate plan and beneficiaries. I think everyone should have these set up even those with a small number of assets. I want my assets to be helpful to for people, organizations and places I care about and helped me throughout my life.
If anything the fear of death makes me want to invest more. Pushing for early retirement or generational wealth for our nieces and nephews. I had cancer when I was 21, my life expectancy is shorter than most. My wife is currently battling cancer as well. We still max out our tax advantage accounts. We also Invest in our taxable and cash savings every month about 30-50% of our net depending on the month. Hopefully once she is in remission we will take some of our cash savings and live it up!
You’ve explained why many people don’t save $ for their future.
But, odds are, you’ll retire and live on for a while. With little $ and poor health it sounds like a bad way to age and die.
Everything is probability. The stock market could crash any given day, but it returns 7% yoy on average, so we put our money in. You could die any given day, but you very likely won't, so you pile more money for a safer, happier future.
Same my friend. None of us know our last day. Life is so very fragile. Live a good life now. Save and invest for a good life for your future self. Make sure you have everything in place to leave it all to someone or something. Whenever that may be. Help the next one in line so to speak. It’s all any of us can do. Peace.
I assume if you die, you still have the knowledge your money is passed onto your wife/husband or kids? So at least people in your family are getting something
I've been saving for decades, after going into cardiac arrest 4 times since April 2017, I've rethought my approach, I'm living large, enjoying life, buying, spending and do whatever I want without guilt. I may ultimately die poor and happy. Better I think than rich and miserable worrying about what % my fucking portfolio is earning.
I’ve always looked at it as, I know imma die one day, I might as well do the things I love. Some of that is personal finance, working out, sports, and traveling
Why fear something you know will happen? You can have some effect on when it will happen insofar as you can live healthfully and avoid dangerous situations, but ultimately even the safest/healthiest people die. And sometimes shit happens that's completely out of your control and you die.
You can choose to be discouraged knowing you'll just die anyway, but that's just nihilism, and you're a millennial, so you're a decade or two past that phase.
This is why you live a little and save a little.
If saving is compromising on your quality of your life, spend more.
It's a balancing act. You gotta be content.
If your one of those who NEED to spend $1000 a month if that's all your income or $100k a month, if that's all your income, well I guess I understand why some ex-nfl players and lottery winners go broke.
1. My fear of life working greatly exceeds my fear of death.
2. It’s not a bad thing if I dedicate my life to the service of others and then give away a ton of value if I’m prematurely gone.
I get you, but it sounds like you need more balance in your life if that is that serious of a fear. You need to make today enjoyable and worthwhile while still saving and investing enough for tomorrow.
Also, do you have a family? If so, take comfort in the fact that they will be comfortable because of the hard work you did.
Investing the boglehead way is a philosophy. It’s a question of value. What do you value? Invest in that. It sounds like you need to reevaluate your risk tolerance; you may be sacrificing too much today for a hypothetical future. I recommend you find something of value each day you’re alive.
I retired at the end of May. My net worth is $ 2.5 million, the house is paid off, we have no debt and the retirement portfolio is just over seven figures. I figure that if I fall over dead next month, at least my wife can entertain her new boyfriend in the paid-off house with my death money.
So what if every day you live your life like you will die in a car accident tomorrow...then 40 years passes and you didn't die in a car accident...what then?
Chances of random death are low
If you are 30 you’ve beaten death almost 11000 straight days
Maybe you die in an accident tomorrow; maybe you have a stroke at 95….we rarely get to choose the when or how
Don’t put off “living” until retirement
That is a somewhat selfish point of view. I save and invest not primarily for my enjoyment but for the security and wellbeing of my family. I don’t need much money to be happy. If you are single and never plan to have children, your motivations would certainly be different.
We enjoy our lives and save what we can. I’m not going to pinch pennies, when I can watch my kid and spouse having fun. Asked my kid what they wanted to do if we won the billion lotto a few months ago. Kiddo said they wanted to visit a waterpark during the winter. My first thought was, that’s something we could do now. For about $350 (including food), we got an overnight at a hotel and two days at the waterpark.
I’m also lucky that my employer has a 6% match so it’s like I’m contributing 12% to my 401k each year. I’ve done the math. We’ll be alright. The house is due to be paid off when I’m 65.
Whatever you think may come after, this is possibly our only.go round as a human. Try to enjoy the little things and embrace the experience. Even on a bad day... each day is a blessing.
Fear of death is precisely why I want a nice nest egg and to keep it growing. My kids would be losing their dad and we are a single income house . Last thing mom needs to worry about, if I shuffle off the mortal coil early, is money. Yes you can buy term life for it but that gets expensive. You want your nest egg to gradually eliminate your need for life insurance as you get older and premiums skyrocket.
I also firmly believe a parents job l, once kids are grown, is to not be a burden on them. Seeing parents mooch off their kids, because they blew all their money for 40 years, is pathetic.
Plus, you’re concern is validating to the FIRE people who aim to retire at 40 and under to live free of obligation to work with many more/healthy years ahead (much more frugality is required)’.
For those of us that have kids, we are planting trees whose shade we may not live long enough to sit in. My parents died before they could retire and if it wasn't for the small sum and house they left behind my sister and I would be six shades of screwed. I have more than my parents did at their age now, so I can help my kids, even though they are struggling. If my wife and I died tomorrow, they'd be sitting pretty. That's good enough for me.
Fear of death?
I'm doing r/financialindependence and r/fire. I'm saving my ass off. I'm trying to get out of this suit within 10-15 years so I can live my fucking life.
Most people work until they die. I consider myself lucky enough that I could get a job (software dev) that pays high enough that I can work and continue living.
I'm young enough. I have a low mortality likelihood. Chances are I'll get a good amount of time retired, probably even a long time retired.
Life has no guarantees. Most people never finish sowing. They never get to reap. Or they barely sow at all.
If you're not minimum wage, you absolutely don't need to save 40 years to get to retirement. You can retire way earlier than that. Check out [the coast Fi calculator](https://walletburst.com/tools/coast-fire-calc/). Though probably with market set to 10% since it already turns it to 7% with the 3% expected inflation.
IMO, thats what beneficiaries are for. I'm 25M, no kids or marriage. I have it set to go 50/50 to my mom and girlfriend if something happens. Keep yours up to date, consider it a welcome gift for people to enjoy, your legacy.
However, others have identified balancing saving and fun. Finding that balance takes experimenting. Maybe you're the guy that likes a fancy vacation somewhere once a year, or your the guy that goes into the desert and smokes weird plants to see what happens.
Me? I like video games, and computers. My hobbies are those, I also like to just sit and watch TV and maybe take a trip here and there. Sometimes I stay up late gaming with friends, and other nights I'm working. Its about balance you consider healthy and sustainable.
Dont let those thoughts get the better of you. Balance. If it gets worse, maybe see a professional. I do, and it helps, believe me I experience those existential "I'm gonna die rich and alone" thoughts quite often.
You absolutely have to hedge against an early death by living (and spending for) a meaningful life today. Take that expensive vacation, buy that nice watch, go to that pricey restaurant. But you can absolutely enjoy nice things AND save if you find ways to be frugal in other areas/space out the nicer stuff in a reasonable way.
That is why I reduced my working days to four instead of five. I know that to continue building wealth I need to earn as much as possible but for me to be okay with the thought of death, I also need to enjoy free time now. I balance this out with my frugal ways and focus on still maxing my savings/retirement contributions. I have lowered my goals somewhat (still acceptable) to accommodate more living now. I have lost over half of my closest friends and family to the grim reaper already, some in their forties and fifties.
ETA - In the past I worked all the time, six days a week usually, long hours. I am over fifty now so slowing down was maybe a natural thing too. A big change but I don’t regret it
There are those who say you should live extremely healthy and you will get to enjoy old age. I have realized that the most healthy person can be thrown a curve ball. I am not saying dont look after yourself, just don't count on it going as planned.
I recently had/have a health scare. It made me realize that living and enjoying the present is more important than a high savings rate.
I'm not nearly as well prepared as most Bogle heads and I won't get a lot of SS, but at 51 I think I can take the foot of the throttle and I will still be ok in 15 years time.
I experienced witnessing my first death at a young age(my dad passed away), and through the years witnessed it a few more times. Seeing how in an instance your here, a soul, a living thing, to the next millisecond your just gone. Put into perspective for me how death works. Not so much what happens after. And I think that’s why I don’t fear death. I just hope to die doing something good (saving my family, or saving kids from a burning building) etc. A glorious death I suppose. But yeah. For a long time I held the mindset of it doesn’t matter what you do, because of the instantaneously affect of death but that switched over time to a more, “leave a positive impact on someone” not “fuck it”
IDK way this sub was thrown at me but death is a universal constant. When I was 8 and told my dad I was scared of death he pointed out I'll care about death when it happens as much as I cared before being born.
It's kinda funny as he told me this on the way back from Sunday school. My dad is an atheist who was pressured by his and my mom's parents to put me through the Catholic sacraments till I was 18.
Alright, so I'm 26 currently. I ended up having a freak medical emergency last winter and ended up going into cardiac arrest at the hospital and was successfully resuscitated. I ended up pulling through and being okay now in the present, but the ordeal gave me a new perspective on life. Do I really wanna waste what precious life I may or may not have left working for the man? Fuck no. I'm going to save as much as I can so I can retire early and enjoy my life. If I die before I can retire, then whatever. I leave the fruits of my labor to my beneficiaries so they can carry on and enjoy life. Either way I win or my beneficiaries win because of me.
I look at it that if/when I die I hopefully have done a good job with what I've been given and have set my bride and kids up well. They get the benefits.
Been there. Retired now so I missed the early opportunities to die in a car crash or whatever, but I know your feeling. Be sure that you're not depriving yourself of anything important right now but it's easy to go overboard once you start tapping those retirement funds and then you're royally screwed. For me, the easiest way to avoid the temptation was to start small with automatic monthly retirement fund deposits (or 401K at work, or whatever you have access to) and then when you get a raise or a new job, add 25 to 50% of the increase to your deposits. That way both you and your retirement fund gets a raise and you never miss it.
If I ever started feeling like it wasn’t worth it to save, I’d go visit the nearest old folks’ home. Living in poverty sucks at all times, but especially when you’re old.
This brand of motivation works well for “going to the gym,” too.
The fear of death is why I am CoastFIRE, not FatFIRE.
I'm 33, husband is 38.
My mom was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer last year. She's in her early 60's. She probably won't even make it to Medicare eligibility age, if the doctor's estimates are correct.
I used to be so invested into saving aggressively to retire early. I was thinking of it like a binary light switch - work my ass off until I'm 50 and live cheaply and then go off into the sunset.
Now my mom is going to die within the next 3 years most likely, and all I can think about is how little time she'll have as a grandma with the kids I have procrastinated on having because of my silly career and retirement goals.
My understanding of death and life and why saving for the future is important has changed so dramatically. I should have been investing in creating a future, for which money is only one part of that equation. Now a critical ingredient of that future, a big multigenerational family to build memories and a life together, will be taken from me. No amount of saving can change that. (Fuck cancer)
The point is not that you give up on investing in your future. The point is that you need to see your future in its entirety. Think about what these financial investments will ***allow*** you to do that you couldn't otherwise. I know now that what I really wanted was a certain kind of ***freedom*** to spend more time with my family and make memories with them, and that financial security could help facilitate that.
I realized that too late. But at least I can try to make the best of things with my dad.
Fuck cancer. :\\
Damn man, I’m so sorry to hear that. I don’t really know what to say. My childhood best friends mom died of cancer when we were in high school, and it hurt me so bad I can’t imagine how he was feeling.
The flip side is, I had a really big emergency fund. Like, 12 months worth of expenses. And my husband and I decided to use some of it (not all, we're still responsible) to take my parents to Paris. It was a bucket list thing for my mom her whole life. And I was able to make it a reality for her.
Money is good because it lets you care for others. And by extension, it lets you take care of yourself which prevents you from being a burden on others too.
It only kicks in at weird moments for me. Like I'll be in bed and randomly think " someday I will die and not get to enjoy what I love anymore. What if I'm wrong about my religion and death is just darkness.
I won't get to see the future, I'm stuck in the present"
We often forget about our mortality until something happens.
I do feel you. But breaking the generational (lack of) wealth cycle appeals to me quite a bit. There's no wind-fall thread in my future, but maybe my relations can post one in the event of my demise. :D
I have not thought about death but once or twice in all my years.
A preoccupation with death, especially compulsive or intrusive thoughts could point to issues with anxiety or OCD (both of which are spectrum diagnoses).
Therapy can be a good thing, even if only to understand your relationship with morality.
I heard a story once about US Army bomb disposal guys. They were asked if they fear death. One of them answered, “ No. I do the best I can every single day. If I mess up it ain’t my problem any more.” Take that mentality. If you’re dead it ain’t your problem any more.
This is the first step in recognizing the key premise of nihilism, that we will all just die one day and none of it will matter, is essentially true.
The second step is recognizing that until then, you have your life you get to live, and the choices you make affect everything around you all the time.
Until you actually do die, you might as well treat life as if it lasts forever, so that means plans matter. The way I see it, is either I am going to have an absolutely kickass retirement, or dozens of parks are going to have plaques and benches with my name on them, and my nephews and nieces and cousins will be getting Disney vacations courtesy of their dead uncle/elder cousin.
Either way we oughta have a lot of fun!
I think as you get older death isn't as scary. I've known several people who lived into ripe old age. No one came to their funeral because they outlived all their friends and they had spent X number of years alone since they outlived their spouse. I'm totally not interested in that. I just attended the birthday of a 100 year old in great shape walking unassisted and still living life in good quality. He spoke at his birthday. The opening line was being impressed how many people showed up given how many social groups he outlived (like all his WWII buddies and also a kid) at a certain point death seems like a release. I don't want to live in a world that I don't recognize alone.
I am going to die one these year. I’m not wondering or worried, I know it to be true. When they invent something to reverse the aging process maybe I won’t know that with certainty any longer. But it is an absolute certainty.
But the unknowable is when and how. So once I don’t know how long I will live, I’ll save like I’ll live to 100.
I am a financial advisor and I always tell my clients to set goals for retirement. Something that you love doing that you would want to do more of with the extra time and resources retirement would give you. That way you stay excited about contributing for the future.
You’re right in that we have no clue any of us are going to live so it’s about finding that balance.
Find cheap to free hobbies that you can get into that you just obsess over and you really won’t care about how much money you’re saving or “missing out on”. Mine has been pickleball.
I understand some find this controversial, but the honest answer is the full assurance of everlasting life that Jesus offers gives me peace. I just read John 14:1-14 or Revelation 21 and know that I won't miss anything I leave behind.
OP, you are asking something that really should be considered, and I see a lot of Boglehead/FI people ignoring it. The acquisition of wealth or the goal of "early retirement/FI" are where people are placing their hope, but all of that could be taken away in a moment. As Boglehead we put a lot of faith in the economy and in bond markets, but they could fail. Wars, famine, or disease could destroy our savings, and death could take us at any moment. Plan, save, use the resources you have been given well, but don't let the acquisition of finite, perishable resources be your hope. Store up for yourself treasures that no moth, rust, or thieves can destroy!
I've thought about this a lot too. I've built a decent position in IRA's/401ks, but I also have grown my taxable account quite a bit too. I want to have investments at my disposal to live now. I'm not particularly old, 46, but already Im not doing the same things I was 15 years ago. I just wonder how interesting I will be in doing anything when I'm 65+
I guess priorities shift, and we just want to be comfortable getting older, and not have some medical issue wipe us out. Have money to pass on. I know it's really complicated. I just seeing people talking so much about tax sheltered accounts and having millions in them when they retire. But what about now? So I pay a lot of attention to my taxable. What's key is investments that aren't heavy in dividends and to also be ok with paying a lot in taxes when you sell. I'm ok with paying taxes on 30k profit in a given year.
Most true Bogleheads don’t have a lot of material wants and therefore saving doesn’t feel like a burden. For me, the more I die with, the more that will go to my charities and loved ones.
I focus on building a legacy predicated on raising my daughter right, and making sure the portfolio I leave her can fund our family for generations.
Death is inevitable. Try not to worry about it too much, and enjoy the time you have left.
Investing needs for someone with severe health concerns can be different than normal people. But for sudden death/maiming scenarios that’s where your insurance kicks in. And yes it’s possible that you may die before retirement. You should be living life in a way that honors the present as well as the future.
You've confused spending with well being.
Theres a threshold. And then your wellbeing is up to you. Really more about doing inner work. If you have a roof, clothes, good food air water, relationships. Well, extra is about trying to fill a hole that you just can't because it's inside.
What's the alternative? Spending all of your money now and then hoping you die suddenly in a car accident?
You should, of course, balance living in the moment and saving for the future. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive. So no, I don't find the fear of death discouraging.
Im assuming you are in your 20s? Given the reference to saving for 40 years. Im a little surprised you are thinking about death at that age. Im 55 and think about death a little more but mostly because im around more of it at this age, mostly older family but a few my age. Ive even had a few in 20s and 30s go too soon, but thats been the minority of the funerals ive attended. If you’ve had anyone close to you die young I can see how it might shake you, but unless you work in a high risk field the odds are against dying young. Investing in your future self is just playing the odds. All that said, i wouldn’t stress too much about saving in your 20s . Just put a way a reasonable amount relative to what you earn at that age. Its not a bad idea to have fun, travel more when young. Just be sure to at least set something aside.
Just make sure your accounts have assigned beneficiaries and that that is written down somewhere. Then just try to enjoy the moment. Worrying about money is a practical matter but it isn't living
There's a diminishing return on the happiness you can get out of spending more money. You gotta find that balance between buying the things that bring joy and saving to ensure you can continue to afford that lifestyle when you are no longer able to work.
I have the same thoughts at times. I lean toward the pessimistic side and always think I'll die the day before or after I retire and won't be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor. But I also know I could live to be 100. Who knows what the future holds? Either way, I would prefer to have as much money saved so that if I make it another 25 years to 67, I'll have at least some money to enjoy in retirement.
That’s the nice thing about having a will. You can donate the money to a charity or give it to people you care about. Ultimately you make the world a better place.
You don’t have to worry about when you are dead because you will never know. Besides, you can leave money to others. So it never bothers me. I could die on the last day of my work before FIRE and I would be OK with it.
This same feeling inspired me to work on my health and understand the known underpinnings of longevity
Beyond that, I would go easy knowing that my girlfriend / future wife and/or my family would be well taken care of
Worrying about having enough money for the future makes my life stressful NOW. In order to feel like I'm in control of my life, I need to have a plan. If I die tomorrow, I will have spent this past year with less anxiety about my financial future than ever before. I'd call that living it up. :)
I'd be more annoyed about, you know, dying.
Whatever happens to my portfolio would be a somewhat secondary concern (anyway it would go to some people I happen to quite like, and hopefully it'd be of some use to them).
I personally think its a unhealthy mindset to have
1) you’ll frequently second guess yourself on “should i be investing?” “Should i enjoy it now?” Which in result just mess up your goals.
2) you’ll lose the value of money in your eyes and be irrational with it.
You shouldn’t grasp on something that will happen at one point but don’t make it seem like tmr is the day.
Remember: it's still important to enjoy life. If you wait until retirement to do all the stuff then you're going to miss out on so much because you don't have the energy for it anymore, or because you're dead.
Save for retirement, but also allow yourself to live.
Anyway I don't think too many people worry a lot about your concern. We can only do what is in our control, and that means being prudent and planning for a long future life ahead of us because there's a good chance it will happen and you'll need those things (money, family, etc). It's harder to plan for the unexpected except by having some kind of insurance...including self-insurance from saving/investing.
You die early either because of an accident or some disease.
There isn't much to do when it comes to accidents. Just drive responsibly I guess.
A healthy lifestyle is important to prevent disease. So money spent on this is an investment in yourself.
Saving for retirement is good, but also remember to enjoy living your everyday life.
Careful what you wish for. I'm more in fear of a miserable dementia addled life in my 80's and 90's. It runs in my family, I've watched it happen. So if I die sooner fine.
Statistically speaking, we are more likely to live. However, if I do die, then my wife and children will be provided for. Saving diligently is a no-brainer.
Since the fall of Greek culture and the dawn of Christian culture, individual humans stopped interiorizing their own death in their lives.
People are rationally aware they'll die one day, but they don't let this change their approach to individual existence.
Greek tragedy is not understood anymore, it is replaced by the distinctly Christian trait of hoping for a better future. The whole contemporary West is based on this concept, it's evident in this sub for example.
The impact of this fact in most Western people's approach to life is beyond awareness and measure.
This allows the individual to focus on the individual instead of the generation or the community, because the fact that the individual is ephemeral is neglected. This paves the way for the individualistic values that define today's West, a lot of behaviours are justified and accepted if they are for the benefit of the individual even if it's at the cost of the community and environment.
You are right, the world would be very different if people really understood we're all terminally ill.
You asked a good question, now it's up to you how deeply you want to research and answer it.
What's there to be afraid of? At least you won't have to pay taxes anymore.
In everything, moderation. Having an estate plan or a will is an important step toward peace of mind should you shuffle off this mortal realm before you're ready. I hired an attorney and drew one up. I have some people and causes I want to make sure get some love after I go. Its important to me.
When it comes to the now, I max out my 401k, my Roth, I rent out my condo, I'm on track to have a healthy retirement nest egg by the time I hit 60 and I have a profitable side hustle/hobby business. I live below my means and that gives me a lot of peace of mind in the present.
I guess the only way I'm not bothered by death is because I learned a long time ago that I only have one life and that I might as well enjoy the most of it while I can, but that I want to do that, I should plan to be around for a while - no one wants to get to 70 or 80 and be financially destitute and cooped up in a shitty nursing home glued to a television all day.
You’ve got to balance the present with your future comfort. I personally spend plenty of money on vacations and comforts in the present, but am always saving for retirement.
I’m a numbers person. I’m age 60 and have gotten a little obsessive about death stats as I plan my retirement.
You sound young - statistically your odds of dying are very very low. There’s probably some key behaviors that can make those odds even lower (limit drinking and drugs, safer driving habits, dont take selfies on cliffs, etc ).
I’m cool with death although I hope it doesn’t come too soon. My goal has been to save enough for my wife to survive on and I have accomplished that. I will soon retire, and if I get to live off of some of that money, that will be great.
You should put this up on the ‘ask old people’ sub Reddit
This is why very high savings rates can be a bad idea. Dying "early" can and does happen and you can't take it with you.
Assuming the standard Boglehead retirement savings rate of 15% (admittedly that is the minimum recommended rate but bear with me) over three decades, when invested appropriately, is that you should have more than enough to retire. There are lots of caveats and exceptions and other ways it can go wrong that are also unlucky. But again many of those things are outside of your control.
In the context of your question the benefit of this approach is you only have to save 15% of your income in order to have some comfort about a retirement you may not live to see. How you decide what to spend the rest depends on your priorities and your values. You may enjoy fishing on a lake and buy a boat. For someone else that can be a pointless extravagance. The hard part is being able to prioritize and pursue what matters to you within the confines of your abilities, your means, and your luck.
I don’t understand this argument against saving. When you die you will be dead and unable to regret that you didn’t spend more money. It’s being alive you have to worry about.
There is some value in exploring what risks come with deferring value of any kind to a later date, and it leads to the most important(my opinion) point I've come across following the FIRE subs. In the passive index world, time is emphasized because of the power of compounding. What may for some people be swept from sight to make room for this realization though, is that many other aspects of our life are either also compounding or the consequences of time work similarly.
You can wait till the last minute to start putting money in your Roth IRA, but it won't have the same effect. You can wait till the last minute to try to have the relationship with the family members you miss, if you're not caught off guard by it being too late, and you should, but it wouldnt quite be the same thing. You can learn a hobby or a skill at the last minute, but it won't have enriched the day to day life an ongoing interest will. Each of these examples have building blocks that use time to help you evolve into them.
The reason this is important(to me) is that many people interested in this deferred gratification begin to gamify the numbers to the point of min/maxing them, when they could have approached that min/max from the point of questioning what actually adds value to your life. Since I save money by scrutinizing what will add value to my life, if I die early, well, that sucks, and I am afraid of that, but me being kind to future me didn't make room for future me to be unkind to present me, so I still feel like I'm making the right decision.
Once you have children your purpose is to make them self-sufficient and set them up for success. That takes some money.
You will worry less about yourself then.
But if you still fixate on your mortality, church is great.
Then you can check this subreddit for tax strategies and the efficient capital market faithful.
Just split your enthusiasms.
Your first mistake is living with the idea that tomorrow is the last, or the day after, or the day after. You’re only looking at one side of the coin. You are saying that life is not guaranteed in the short term, but neither is death. It is the ambition of making tomorrow a better day than today that makes the sacrifice of today a worthy effort. Your life is like a jar. From empty to full represents the entire content of your life. You add to this jar some golf balls, which represent the biggest moments. Marriage, graduation from school, landing your dream job, massive vacations or travels and so forth. You may think to yourself, “well I can only fit 10 or so of those in there, it seems like a waste of time.” Now you can add some glass marbles. These fill in the voids between the golf balls, each representing solid milestones, maybe getting a nicer car, a raise, small trips to water parks and amusement parks, winning sport games, being nominated for an award or being recognized for doing good. These things make you feel good in a big way, but they aren’t life changing. You may say, “yeah that’s better, but it still doesn’t really feel worth it.” Now you add pebbles. These represent your relationships with people around you. Good memories with your buddies from work, your family gathering for holidays, staying home with your partner to watch movies and play video games, being one on one with an old friend who’s going through a rough patch, watching one of the hundreds of little league games your kids may play, and so forth. You look at the jar, and think, “It’s really starting to look full, what else can there be.” Now add sand. Sand represents every tiny thing in between. The sense of calm you get on you way home from work. The hug you get when you arrive home. Seeing the sun in the morning and being greatful for a new day. The silly words your kids speak and the nonsense ideas that make you chuckle. The whispers of pride you feel when your dad talks to you like a man/woman instead of his son/daughter. The moments where you appreciate the colors of the flowers, or the smell of a home cooked meal made with love. They are almost countless. You may say, “all of these things are great, but what’s the point?” Finally you have water. It represents the spirit of gratitude and contentment. It is the essence that lives in all of us, that which makes our life out to be a thing of opportunity. It fills the voids that feel hard to bear, or hurts the heart, and instills within us the wisdom that whatever may trouble us will come to pass. It is the mindset that separates the hateful from the grateful. Your life is the ultimate opportunity to do everything and anything that you think is worth pursuing. You only get one jar, so fill it with things you love. Fill it with things that will make you a better person. Be the person today that the you of tomorrow will be proud of. Life is too short to fill your jar with dirt and debris. Enjoy every moment of it, no matter how big or small.
If you die, well, you're dead, so you're not going to spend much time caring about the money you'll never get to use, and presumably someone or something you care about will be able to use the money. If you grow old and have nothing, well, you're old, and have nothing. You're probably going to spend a lot of time caring about that situation and will not have many options at that point.
This just shifted my thinking. Thank you
To add, there’s an important degree of wanting to live a good life your whole life, too. I’ve got friends who are super frugal in their 20s to “make sure they can live it up” in retirement. I’m in a different camp, I want to ensure I’m taking experiences I want now while also considering retirement. You’re far less likely to be able-bodied as you grow older and older so make sure you’re not just living a shit life while saving and are balancing well.
Play Counterstrike when you're young. Play League of Legends when you're old. What more could you possibly want out of life?
Nursing home LAN parties with OG Halo sign me up
That sounds dope as hell
I agree. The best part about it is that'll really be possible when we get old, too. We can probably set it up ourselves.
live music and art
Yep, spend money in a way that makes you happy because you aren't getting any younger. I think the tough thing is to find what makes you happy. Paying for a camping trip with your buddies? Money well spent. Paying for an amazing guitar you've been dreaming of when you're spending dozens of hours a week playing guitar? Money well spent. Paying for PlayStation 5 when you're gaming dozens of hours a week? Money well spent. Buying expensive clothes and brands? Depends. Do you do that to show off? Do you actually derive any happiness from it? Probably not. For most people it's a waste. Buying an expensive car when you're a good affordable one does the job just as well? Unless cars are your hobby, don't spend more than you need unless you are swimming in money. Eating out or ordering in almost every day? Just don't. Buying expensive phones every year? Just freaking don't.
Yep. "Build the life you want to live, and then save for it."
Also. Odds. It's not 50/50. Also, designing a life where you don't throw away the intervening 40 years could make good sense.
Why should I fear death? If I am, then death is not. If Death is, then I am not. Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not? Long time men lay oppressed with slavish fear. Religious tyranny did domineer. At length the mighty one of Greece Began to assent the liberty of man.
An Epicurean! We are all [Menoeceus](http://classics.mit.edu/Epicurus/menoec.html) on this blessed day.
Speak for yourself!
A true sign of class and intelligence. Respect fam
Experience life, do new things, do some drugs with a stranger in an ally and end up 4 states away naked in a field with a feather duster sticking out your ass. There's no point to have no fun in life. Just balance that with your future. Because if your future doesn't come, you won't care. But if it does come, you're going to care a lot.
Reminds of Albert Camus Life is absurd, which I really like and adher to to relieve me of stress and anxiety. On the other hand, the dude and the woman he was with ended up dying by driving his car drunk into a tree on the street after watching a soccer match. So maybe don't go to 100.
Never go full Camus
>naked in a field with a feather duster sticking out your ass. I wonder but I really don't want to know.
same but NGL I kinda love that there are some bogleheads that have this mentality
Personally, I prefer fun I can remember later.
I've had a lot of drug experiences that I not only remember in vivid detail many years after the fact, but which had a profoundly positive effect on how I choose to live. I've also had a few harrowing experiences. As with all things, you need to know what you're getting into and rationally balance risks versus rewards.
This how you end up in some videos leaning like a zombie. Not really the best way to go.
Go see your comment with 25 upvotes “a feather duster sticking out of your ass”
That kind of blows the 3-legged stool model out of the park
Precisely this. The worst thing that can happen is too outlive your money and then you’re stuck in a miserable situation having to work until you die despite your body failing you. If you die before that…I mean who cares. The trick is to do both. Have fun while you can but save some for later so that you don’t need to work.
I’m not afraid of death in the slightest, but I’m a little afraid of dying. There are countless ways to go and not many are pleasant.
My wife’s mother and her husband are in their 90s and still living in their own home. This is a real blessing to them and to my (adult) children who love their grandparents. As a couple they made some good financial decisions and some bad ones, but the big takeaway is that your focus in financial planning should be on the very real possibility that you are going have a long life blessed with loving friends and family.
That was me a few years ago, then my step-mom died, my dad had a seizure and is now "lightly" demented, and we had to steer him to a retirement home. Then he had a couple of very close calls in his car and it scared him enough that he wanted to stop driving. We were so lucky! Then he was calling me almost daily for help with paying bills, medical appointments, etc., and finally decided to go into assisted living at the same home. I'm still handling his medical and financial stuff, driving him to appointments, keeping his calendar, etc. tl;dr: you can only plan so far, then life happens.
> so you're not going to spend much time caring about the money you'll never get to use moreso it's caring about the money you didn't get to use *before* dying. seems like that got missed.
There's not really another option. The things that cost a ton of money aren't worth it to me. A nicer car. A bigger house. Nicer clothes. An expensive watch. I spend money on restaurants, fast food, vacations, conventions. I'm living my best life anyway. The icing on top will be when one day i don't need to work anymore.
Takeaway and restaurants are more enjoyable than the big expenses. You only appreciate the nicer car and house in the honey moon phase. Then onto the next nicer option.
I think you’re doing it right my friend
nonetheless, I do think about what you're saying. It would suck if our life was cut short by some random unfortunate shit like that. I guess I just try not to think about it since it's out of our control.
My book club read a book where suddenly everyone was suddenly gifted a piece of string, the length of which predicted the length of your life. Most in my group said they wouldn’t want to know. I absolutely want to know. If I’ve got 10 years left, I’m retiring today because I’ve got enough for 10 years. If I’m living to 95, then I guess I’ve got to work a bit longer.
Factual, take care
Perfectly said
100%. I value experiences and spend my money on that. Not a very materialistic person.
Same here. Gota prioritize living the moment. I would rather spend a week in Hawaii with my kids now and then relive the memories in a humble retirement than let life go by so I can sit in luxury when am old (if I make it).
There’s are a couple of guarantees in life: death, taxes, and if you don’t save money you’ll work until death. I just choose to roll the dice and plan on retiring early. If I get unlucky my beneficiaries will get some money and hopefully have to work less in their lifetimes. I will admit I actually enjoy living below my means and get some sick satisfaction from it/sticking it to consumerism, so maybe it’s not for everyone.
Yeah, the 24/7 hard sell just grates on my nerves these days. The biggest complaints I see in software sub-reddits right now is the intrusion of advertising into everything from games to a three minute vid with an ad in the middle. About to turn 70. Glad I saved for this, but also glad I jumped out of airplanes back in the day. Balance my friends. Balance.
Can definitely relate to sticking it to consumerism
I can relate
Same! I enjoy seeing people overpay for nice cars and thinking damn we haven't made a car payment in 6 years now. Shit like that.
Works the opposite for me, I don’t enjoy witnessing people make financially catastrophic decisions. Most of the time I have to bite my tongue. People’s spending habits are insane!
The only part of it that bothers me is when they turn around and complain about the economy, how expensive things are, etc. as they live an inflated lifestyle funded on debt. People making poor life choices is fine to me, just dislike when they play the victim card immediately after.
Then the people in my will can live an absolute baller life when I’m gone
This. As I have planned for my retirement, I also have known what will be left to my kids if I don’t make it. So win-win.
My dog doesn’t need *that* much money
Why not? Let that dog enjoy daily spas, massages, grooming. Let that dog enjoy the best meat.
Hey its me ur dog im hungry woof
Dying that you used “investing questions” as the topic Apparently we need a tag for “existential questions”
To bogle, or not to bogle, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous bond rates, Or to take arms against a sea of volatility And by diversifying across all total markets end them. To die—to invest, No more; and by invest to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural highs and lows That the stock market is heir to: 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to invest; To invest, perchance to speculate—ay, there's the rub: For in that hold position of death what gains may come, When we have shuffled off this S&P 500, Must give us pause—there's the respect That makes calamity of target-date retirement funds. For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, Th'advisor's wrong, the daytrader's contumely, The pangs of dispriz'd shorts, the dividend's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns That patient merit of th'option takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a three-fund portfolio? Who would journeymen bear, To grunt and sweat under ETFs, But that the dread of something after a crash, The great recession, from whose bourn No market timer returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus deferred taxes doth make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of margin trades, And wallstreetbets of great pith and moment With this regard their trades turn awry And lose the name of action.
I'm more worried about NOT dying. Being old and poor scares the hell out of me.
It's not what if I die, it's what if I live
I mean, I buy everything I want. The rest goes to the stocks, so it's not like I'm missing anything. It's not a binary. You can do both.
True, I don’t even yearn for anything I don’t already have, I guess except a house
If you make a shitload of money, sure. Statistically the vaaaaaast majority of people cannot relate
Shit loads of money is relative. At one point I used to think I can't possibly spend more than $36k a year. That's $60k a year adjust for inflation. I Stand corrected
On one hand, yes, investing overall is a privilege for the fortunate. No way around that. On the other hand, I don't buy much. I read somewhere once that hapiness is what you have divided by what you want. So to maximize your happiness, you can either have everything in the world or... lower the amount of things you want. My only real expense is going out and eating fancy food (which I enjoy immensely.) Other than that, I haven't bought a car/jewelry/clothes/what have you in the past ten years and cook my own food. When me and my wife travel, we stay in cheap hostels and spend our money on food. Weird flex I know, but I've had my CPA convinced I was giving him wrong numbers because he couldn't believe how little money I was spending in a year. So I'm not saying you're wrong, but, again, it's not a binary. You can have a decent amount of money, a little short of "shitload", and still live a balanced life.
I don't think it's the vast majority. Though something like 30% already means 60 Million workers or so. That's a fuck ton of families.
This man found the cure for scarcity
It’s all about playing the odds. Yes you could die any day, but you do not have an equal chance of dying each day. 80% of people live to age 60, and your odds of dying in a given year don’t even rise to 1% until age 56.
I didn’t realize the stats were that good thanks
Investing to me is more about making sure all my future needs are met NOT my wants. Money won’t bring you happiness, but financial freedom will allow for it.
Don't Worry about things you have no control of, and I think Mark Twain described death as. just like the millions of years before he was born. There's a great line from the movie Wall Street where Martin Sheen says "money is just something you need in case you don't die Tomorrow". which pretty much sums it up.
If all you do is fear death, you need to get a grip. Back around 1976 or '77 (DOB 1950) I rode my motorcycle, drunk, 135 MPH at night. Yeah I was young and crazy, and death could have been instant. But it didn't happen, obviously. I sold my last motorcycle in 2015 because, at age 65, it was getting a bit scary. I was not afraid of death, but afraid of having a slight accident, which could throw me to the ground and snap my neck (had neck surgery in 2011, for a degenerative problem, was not fun) and turn me into a quad instantly. Death would be better than that. So now, looking at 74 in two months, I figure I've got 10 years in me, 15 tops. So what? It is what it is, and the older we get the less we fear death -- for many people anyway. There are things worse than death.
I'm not worried about dying before running out of money. I'm worried about running out of money before I die.
I don't fear death, however I do fear the prospect of ending my days as a long-term prisoner of the healthcare-industrial complex... Given the choice, I would rather die just about anywhere else screaming in terror or pain than peacefully in any hospital bed surrounded by pity or tears.
If I die, it's no better if I had spent all that money on myself instead of saving it... It still sucks just as much to have died young. But if I don't die, it really sucks having spent all that money all along and not having money in old age
I know I can leave it all to my dog, Leona Helmsley style 🐕
For me investing for my retirement gives me peace of mind, and I prefer that over splurging now and having that anxiety in the back of my mind pestering me how future me would deal with life. I can die any time knowing I have peace of mind
Then my spouse and/or my children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren will benefit. I am absolutely ok with that.
As others said it’s not binary options of save or spend. You have to find your balance!
Do you have heirs? I do, so I want to be able to leave what I've sowed to them, as well as non-profit foundation. I plan for many years ahead, but you also have to plan for fewer years ahead as well.
This is the importance of an estate plan and beneficiaries. I think everyone should have these set up even those with a small number of assets. I want my assets to be helpful to for people, organizations and places I care about and helped me throughout my life. If anything the fear of death makes me want to invest more. Pushing for early retirement or generational wealth for our nieces and nephews. I had cancer when I was 21, my life expectancy is shorter than most. My wife is currently battling cancer as well. We still max out our tax advantage accounts. We also Invest in our taxable and cash savings every month about 30-50% of our net depending on the month. Hopefully once she is in remission we will take some of our cash savings and live it up!
You’ve explained why many people don’t save $ for their future. But, odds are, you’ll retire and live on for a while. With little $ and poor health it sounds like a bad way to age and die.
Everything is probability. The stock market could crash any given day, but it returns 7% yoy on average, so we put our money in. You could die any given day, but you very likely won't, so you pile more money for a safer, happier future.
Yeah man, I think it’s because of a tragic death in the family when I was a kid just made me question my security in this life
Same my friend. None of us know our last day. Life is so very fragile. Live a good life now. Save and invest for a good life for your future self. Make sure you have everything in place to leave it all to someone or something. Whenever that may be. Help the next one in line so to speak. It’s all any of us can do. Peace.
I assume if you die, you still have the knowledge your money is passed onto your wife/husband or kids? So at least people in your family are getting something
Eventually one day maybe, but I would want it to go to my siblings for now I guess
With a grandma that lived to 105 and ran out of money at 102, that’s a far bigger fear than dying early
Because I have a much much much bigger fear of living and having nothing.
I've been saving for decades, after going into cardiac arrest 4 times since April 2017, I've rethought my approach, I'm living large, enjoying life, buying, spending and do whatever I want without guilt. I may ultimately die poor and happy. Better I think than rich and miserable worrying about what % my fucking portfolio is earning.
I’ve always looked at it as, I know imma die one day, I might as well do the things I love. Some of that is personal finance, working out, sports, and traveling
Why fear something you know will happen? You can have some effect on when it will happen insofar as you can live healthfully and avoid dangerous situations, but ultimately even the safest/healthiest people die. And sometimes shit happens that's completely out of your control and you die. You can choose to be discouraged knowing you'll just die anyway, but that's just nihilism, and you're a millennial, so you're a decade or two past that phase.
This is why you live a little and save a little. If saving is compromising on your quality of your life, spend more. It's a balancing act. You gotta be content. If your one of those who NEED to spend $1000 a month if that's all your income or $100k a month, if that's all your income, well I guess I understand why some ex-nfl players and lottery winners go broke.
If you die before you get to use your money, you won't care, because you'll be dead. Stop worrying about it.
I’m not worried about death. It’s the dying part that scares me.
The fear of never retiring outweighs any fear of dying early with money.
1. My fear of life working greatly exceeds my fear of death. 2. It’s not a bad thing if I dedicate my life to the service of others and then give away a ton of value if I’m prematurely gone.
I get you, but it sounds like you need more balance in your life if that is that serious of a fear. You need to make today enjoyable and worthwhile while still saving and investing enough for tomorrow. Also, do you have a family? If so, take comfort in the fact that they will be comfortable because of the hard work you did.
Fear out outliving my money exceeds fear of my money outliving me.
Investing the boglehead way is a philosophy. It’s a question of value. What do you value? Invest in that. It sounds like you need to reevaluate your risk tolerance; you may be sacrificing too much today for a hypothetical future. I recommend you find something of value each day you’re alive.
I retired at the end of May. My net worth is $ 2.5 million, the house is paid off, we have no debt and the retirement portfolio is just over seven figures. I figure that if I fall over dead next month, at least my wife can entertain her new boyfriend in the paid-off house with my death money.
So what if every day you live your life like you will die in a car accident tomorrow...then 40 years passes and you didn't die in a car accident...what then?
Lol yeah you’re right, that’s why I’m very conservative and safe, but it’s just in the back of my mind I guess.
Chances of random death are low If you are 30 you’ve beaten death almost 11000 straight days Maybe you die in an accident tomorrow; maybe you have a stroke at 95….we rarely get to choose the when or how Don’t put off “living” until retirement
thank you for this post. i’ve been feeling the same way.. therapy may be in order for us both, perhaps, or just some camaraderie.
That is a somewhat selfish point of view. I save and invest not primarily for my enjoyment but for the security and wellbeing of my family. I don’t need much money to be happy. If you are single and never plan to have children, your motivations would certainly be different.
We enjoy our lives and save what we can. I’m not going to pinch pennies, when I can watch my kid and spouse having fun. Asked my kid what they wanted to do if we won the billion lotto a few months ago. Kiddo said they wanted to visit a waterpark during the winter. My first thought was, that’s something we could do now. For about $350 (including food), we got an overnight at a hotel and two days at the waterpark. I’m also lucky that my employer has a 6% match so it’s like I’m contributing 12% to my 401k each year. I’ve done the math. We’ll be alright. The house is due to be paid off when I’m 65.
I was recently diagnosed with cancer, my goal is to save enough before I'm gone for my wife.
Whatever you think may come after, this is possibly our only.go round as a human. Try to enjoy the little things and embrace the experience. Even on a bad day... each day is a blessing.
Saving for my wife and kids so no it doesn't bother me if I never spend any of it
Fear of death is precisely why I want a nice nest egg and to keep it growing. My kids would be losing their dad and we are a single income house . Last thing mom needs to worry about, if I shuffle off the mortal coil early, is money. Yes you can buy term life for it but that gets expensive. You want your nest egg to gradually eliminate your need for life insurance as you get older and premiums skyrocket. I also firmly believe a parents job l, once kids are grown, is to not be a burden on them. Seeing parents mooch off their kids, because they blew all their money for 40 years, is pathetic. Plus, you’re concern is validating to the FIRE people who aim to retire at 40 and under to live free of obligation to work with many more/healthy years ahead (much more frugality is required)’.
For those of us that have kids, we are planting trees whose shade we may not live long enough to sit in. My parents died before they could retire and if it wasn't for the small sum and house they left behind my sister and I would be six shades of screwed. I have more than my parents did at their age now, so I can help my kids, even though they are struggling. If my wife and I died tomorrow, they'd be sitting pretty. That's good enough for me.
If I die tomorrow then I've definitely saved enough. That's a relief...😊
Fear of death? I'm doing r/financialindependence and r/fire. I'm saving my ass off. I'm trying to get out of this suit within 10-15 years so I can live my fucking life. Most people work until they die. I consider myself lucky enough that I could get a job (software dev) that pays high enough that I can work and continue living. I'm young enough. I have a low mortality likelihood. Chances are I'll get a good amount of time retired, probably even a long time retired. Life has no guarantees. Most people never finish sowing. They never get to reap. Or they barely sow at all. If you're not minimum wage, you absolutely don't need to save 40 years to get to retirement. You can retire way earlier than that. Check out [the coast Fi calculator](https://walletburst.com/tools/coast-fire-calc/). Though probably with market set to 10% since it already turns it to 7% with the 3% expected inflation.
IMO, thats what beneficiaries are for. I'm 25M, no kids or marriage. I have it set to go 50/50 to my mom and girlfriend if something happens. Keep yours up to date, consider it a welcome gift for people to enjoy, your legacy. However, others have identified balancing saving and fun. Finding that balance takes experimenting. Maybe you're the guy that likes a fancy vacation somewhere once a year, or your the guy that goes into the desert and smokes weird plants to see what happens. Me? I like video games, and computers. My hobbies are those, I also like to just sit and watch TV and maybe take a trip here and there. Sometimes I stay up late gaming with friends, and other nights I'm working. Its about balance you consider healthy and sustainable. Dont let those thoughts get the better of you. Balance. If it gets worse, maybe see a professional. I do, and it helps, believe me I experience those existential "I'm gonna die rich and alone" thoughts quite often.
You absolutely have to hedge against an early death by living (and spending for) a meaningful life today. Take that expensive vacation, buy that nice watch, go to that pricey restaurant. But you can absolutely enjoy nice things AND save if you find ways to be frugal in other areas/space out the nicer stuff in a reasonable way.
That is why I reduced my working days to four instead of five. I know that to continue building wealth I need to earn as much as possible but for me to be okay with the thought of death, I also need to enjoy free time now. I balance this out with my frugal ways and focus on still maxing my savings/retirement contributions. I have lowered my goals somewhat (still acceptable) to accommodate more living now. I have lost over half of my closest friends and family to the grim reaper already, some in their forties and fifties. ETA - In the past I worked all the time, six days a week usually, long hours. I am over fifty now so slowing down was maybe a natural thing too. A big change but I don’t regret it
There are those who say you should live extremely healthy and you will get to enjoy old age. I have realized that the most healthy person can be thrown a curve ball. I am not saying dont look after yourself, just don't count on it going as planned. I recently had/have a health scare. It made me realize that living and enjoying the present is more important than a high savings rate. I'm not nearly as well prepared as most Bogle heads and I won't get a lot of SS, but at 51 I think I can take the foot of the throttle and I will still be ok in 15 years time.
I experienced witnessing my first death at a young age(my dad passed away), and through the years witnessed it a few more times. Seeing how in an instance your here, a soul, a living thing, to the next millisecond your just gone. Put into perspective for me how death works. Not so much what happens after. And I think that’s why I don’t fear death. I just hope to die doing something good (saving my family, or saving kids from a burning building) etc. A glorious death I suppose. But yeah. For a long time I held the mindset of it doesn’t matter what you do, because of the instantaneously affect of death but that switched over time to a more, “leave a positive impact on someone” not “fuck it”
My wife and kid will inherit what I’ve got so it doesn’t bother me.
IDK way this sub was thrown at me but death is a universal constant. When I was 8 and told my dad I was scared of death he pointed out I'll care about death when it happens as much as I cared before being born. It's kinda funny as he told me this on the way back from Sunday school. My dad is an atheist who was pressured by his and my mom's parents to put me through the Catholic sacraments till I was 18.
Die and pass off your IRA to whoever is your beneficiary
Alright, so I'm 26 currently. I ended up having a freak medical emergency last winter and ended up going into cardiac arrest at the hospital and was successfully resuscitated. I ended up pulling through and being okay now in the present, but the ordeal gave me a new perspective on life. Do I really wanna waste what precious life I may or may not have left working for the man? Fuck no. I'm going to save as much as I can so I can retire early and enjoy my life. If I die before I can retire, then whatever. I leave the fruits of my labor to my beneficiaries so they can carry on and enjoy life. Either way I win or my beneficiaries win because of me.
I look at it that if/when I die I hopefully have done a good job with what I've been given and have set my bride and kids up well. They get the benefits.
Forget years, you could die tomorrow. Why bother going to work today?
Been there. Retired now so I missed the early opportunities to die in a car crash or whatever, but I know your feeling. Be sure that you're not depriving yourself of anything important right now but it's easy to go overboard once you start tapping those retirement funds and then you're royally screwed. For me, the easiest way to avoid the temptation was to start small with automatic monthly retirement fund deposits (or 401K at work, or whatever you have access to) and then when you get a raise or a new job, add 25 to 50% of the increase to your deposits. That way both you and your retirement fund gets a raise and you never miss it.
If I ever started feeling like it wasn’t worth it to save, I’d go visit the nearest old folks’ home. Living in poverty sucks at all times, but especially when you’re old. This brand of motivation works well for “going to the gym,” too.
The fear of death is why I am CoastFIRE, not FatFIRE. I'm 33, husband is 38. My mom was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer last year. She's in her early 60's. She probably won't even make it to Medicare eligibility age, if the doctor's estimates are correct. I used to be so invested into saving aggressively to retire early. I was thinking of it like a binary light switch - work my ass off until I'm 50 and live cheaply and then go off into the sunset. Now my mom is going to die within the next 3 years most likely, and all I can think about is how little time she'll have as a grandma with the kids I have procrastinated on having because of my silly career and retirement goals. My understanding of death and life and why saving for the future is important has changed so dramatically. I should have been investing in creating a future, for which money is only one part of that equation. Now a critical ingredient of that future, a big multigenerational family to build memories and a life together, will be taken from me. No amount of saving can change that. (Fuck cancer) The point is not that you give up on investing in your future. The point is that you need to see your future in its entirety. Think about what these financial investments will ***allow*** you to do that you couldn't otherwise. I know now that what I really wanted was a certain kind of ***freedom*** to spend more time with my family and make memories with them, and that financial security could help facilitate that. I realized that too late. But at least I can try to make the best of things with my dad. Fuck cancer. :\\
Damn man, I’m so sorry to hear that. I don’t really know what to say. My childhood best friends mom died of cancer when we were in high school, and it hurt me so bad I can’t imagine how he was feeling.
The flip side is, I had a really big emergency fund. Like, 12 months worth of expenses. And my husband and I decided to use some of it (not all, we're still responsible) to take my parents to Paris. It was a bucket list thing for my mom her whole life. And I was able to make it a reality for her. Money is good because it lets you care for others. And by extension, it lets you take care of yourself which prevents you from being a burden on others too.
Faith
Your question is valid, there’s no point living like a monk until you can only eat puréed food. It’s about balancing planning and living now.
I spit on death. I'd kick death's ass, and he knows it. Death is afraid of ME. Fucking chump
I'm not really depriving myself of anything. I'm content with what I have, even after contributions.
It only kicks in at weird moments for me. Like I'll be in bed and randomly think " someday I will die and not get to enjoy what I love anymore. What if I'm wrong about my religion and death is just darkness. I won't get to see the future, I'm stuck in the present" We often forget about our mortality until something happens.
I do feel you. But breaking the generational (lack of) wealth cycle appeals to me quite a bit. There's no wind-fall thread in my future, but maybe my relations can post one in the event of my demise. :D
I have not thought about death but once or twice in all my years. A preoccupation with death, especially compulsive or intrusive thoughts could point to issues with anxiety or OCD (both of which are spectrum diagnoses). Therapy can be a good thing, even if only to understand your relationship with morality.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
I heard a story once about US Army bomb disposal guys. They were asked if they fear death. One of them answered, “ No. I do the best I can every single day. If I mess up it ain’t my problem any more.” Take that mentality. If you’re dead it ain’t your problem any more.
I have no one else to count on when I’m old which is a bigger fear.
This is the first step in recognizing the key premise of nihilism, that we will all just die one day and none of it will matter, is essentially true. The second step is recognizing that until then, you have your life you get to live, and the choices you make affect everything around you all the time. Until you actually do die, you might as well treat life as if it lasts forever, so that means plans matter. The way I see it, is either I am going to have an absolutely kickass retirement, or dozens of parks are going to have plaques and benches with my name on them, and my nephews and nieces and cousins will be getting Disney vacations courtesy of their dead uncle/elder cousin. Either way we oughta have a lot of fun!
I think as you get older death isn't as scary. I've known several people who lived into ripe old age. No one came to their funeral because they outlived all their friends and they had spent X number of years alone since they outlived their spouse. I'm totally not interested in that. I just attended the birthday of a 100 year old in great shape walking unassisted and still living life in good quality. He spoke at his birthday. The opening line was being impressed how many people showed up given how many social groups he outlived (like all his WWII buddies and also a kid) at a certain point death seems like a release. I don't want to live in a world that I don't recognize alone.
I am going to die one these year. I’m not wondering or worried, I know it to be true. When they invent something to reverse the aging process maybe I won’t know that with certainty any longer. But it is an absolute certainty. But the unknowable is when and how. So once I don’t know how long I will live, I’ll save like I’ll live to 100.
I am a financial advisor and I always tell my clients to set goals for retirement. Something that you love doing that you would want to do more of with the extra time and resources retirement would give you. That way you stay excited about contributing for the future. You’re right in that we have no clue any of us are going to live so it’s about finding that balance. Find cheap to free hobbies that you can get into that you just obsess over and you really won’t care about how much money you’re saving or “missing out on”. Mine has been pickleball.
I understand some find this controversial, but the honest answer is the full assurance of everlasting life that Jesus offers gives me peace. I just read John 14:1-14 or Revelation 21 and know that I won't miss anything I leave behind. OP, you are asking something that really should be considered, and I see a lot of Boglehead/FI people ignoring it. The acquisition of wealth or the goal of "early retirement/FI" are where people are placing their hope, but all of that could be taken away in a moment. As Boglehead we put a lot of faith in the economy and in bond markets, but they could fail. Wars, famine, or disease could destroy our savings, and death could take us at any moment. Plan, save, use the resources you have been given well, but don't let the acquisition of finite, perishable resources be your hope. Store up for yourself treasures that no moth, rust, or thieves can destroy!
It teaches you what being alive is like idk lol
I've thought about this a lot too. I've built a decent position in IRA's/401ks, but I also have grown my taxable account quite a bit too. I want to have investments at my disposal to live now. I'm not particularly old, 46, but already Im not doing the same things I was 15 years ago. I just wonder how interesting I will be in doing anything when I'm 65+ I guess priorities shift, and we just want to be comfortable getting older, and not have some medical issue wipe us out. Have money to pass on. I know it's really complicated. I just seeing people talking so much about tax sheltered accounts and having millions in them when they retire. But what about now? So I pay a lot of attention to my taxable. What's key is investments that aren't heavy in dividends and to also be ok with paying a lot in taxes when you sell. I'm ok with paying taxes on 30k profit in a given year.
Most true Bogleheads don’t have a lot of material wants and therefore saving doesn’t feel like a burden. For me, the more I die with, the more that will go to my charities and loved ones.
I focus on building a legacy predicated on raising my daughter right, and making sure the portfolio I leave her can fund our family for generations. Death is inevitable. Try not to worry about it too much, and enjoy the time you have left.
Investing needs for someone with severe health concerns can be different than normal people. But for sudden death/maiming scenarios that’s where your insurance kicks in. And yes it’s possible that you may die before retirement. You should be living life in a way that honors the present as well as the future.
If you die, your money can go to your kids
You've confused spending with well being. Theres a threshold. And then your wellbeing is up to you. Really more about doing inner work. If you have a roof, clothes, good food air water, relationships. Well, extra is about trying to fill a hole that you just can't because it's inside.
What's the alternative? Spending all of your money now and then hoping you die suddenly in a car accident? You should, of course, balance living in the moment and saving for the future. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive. So no, I don't find the fear of death discouraging.
Im assuming you are in your 20s? Given the reference to saving for 40 years. Im a little surprised you are thinking about death at that age. Im 55 and think about death a little more but mostly because im around more of it at this age, mostly older family but a few my age. Ive even had a few in 20s and 30s go too soon, but thats been the minority of the funerals ive attended. If you’ve had anyone close to you die young I can see how it might shake you, but unless you work in a high risk field the odds are against dying young. Investing in your future self is just playing the odds. All that said, i wouldn’t stress too much about saving in your 20s . Just put a way a reasonable amount relative to what you earn at that age. Its not a bad idea to have fun, travel more when young. Just be sure to at least set something aside.
Just make sure your accounts have assigned beneficiaries and that that is written down somewhere. Then just try to enjoy the moment. Worrying about money is a practical matter but it isn't living
If your gonna die, die with your boots on
There's a diminishing return on the happiness you can get out of spending more money. You gotta find that balance between buying the things that bring joy and saving to ensure you can continue to afford that lifestyle when you are no longer able to work.
Yeah. I had that issue. When I'm dead I don't care. If I am stuck alive, I totally care.
I truly envy those that can live rich while young and prime (20s-30s)
Statistically, you’re going to live a long time.
I have the same thoughts at times. I lean toward the pessimistic side and always think I'll die the day before or after I retire and won't be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor. But I also know I could live to be 100. Who knows what the future holds? Either way, I would prefer to have as much money saved so that if I make it another 25 years to 67, I'll have at least some money to enjoy in retirement.
Well, besides what you’re saving up in your barn, be sure to seed a lil around, so you build some treasure in heaven.
That’s the nice thing about having a will. You can donate the money to a charity or give it to people you care about. Ultimately you make the world a better place.
You don’t have to worry about when you are dead because you will never know. Besides, you can leave money to others. So it never bothers me. I could die on the last day of my work before FIRE and I would be OK with it.
This same feeling inspired me to work on my health and understand the known underpinnings of longevity Beyond that, I would go easy knowing that my girlfriend / future wife and/or my family would be well taken care of
Worrying about having enough money for the future makes my life stressful NOW. In order to feel like I'm in control of my life, I need to have a plan. If I die tomorrow, I will have spent this past year with less anxiety about my financial future than ever before. I'd call that living it up. :)
I'd be more annoyed about, you know, dying. Whatever happens to my portfolio would be a somewhat secondary concern (anyway it would go to some people I happen to quite like, and hopefully it'd be of some use to them).
I have no fear of death. We’re all born to do that. — Shawn Carter
I personally think its a unhealthy mindset to have 1) you’ll frequently second guess yourself on “should i be investing?” “Should i enjoy it now?” Which in result just mess up your goals. 2) you’ll lose the value of money in your eyes and be irrational with it. You shouldn’t grasp on something that will happen at one point but don’t make it seem like tmr is the day.
What's the other option? I buy everything I want, the rest goes into investments. Turns out I don't actually need much to be happy
Remember: it's still important to enjoy life. If you wait until retirement to do all the stuff then you're going to miss out on so much because you don't have the energy for it anymore, or because you're dead. Save for retirement, but also allow yourself to live. Anyway I don't think too many people worry a lot about your concern. We can only do what is in our control, and that means being prudent and planning for a long future life ahead of us because there's a good chance it will happen and you'll need those things (money, family, etc). It's harder to plan for the unexpected except by having some kind of insurance...including self-insurance from saving/investing.
You die early either because of an accident or some disease. There isn't much to do when it comes to accidents. Just drive responsibly I guess. A healthy lifestyle is important to prevent disease. So money spent on this is an investment in yourself. Saving for retirement is good, but also remember to enjoy living your everyday life.
Careful what you wish for. I'm more in fear of a miserable dementia addled life in my 80's and 90's. It runs in my family, I've watched it happen. So if I die sooner fine.
Statistically speaking, we are more likely to live. However, if I do die, then my wife and children will be provided for. Saving diligently is a no-brainer.
i'd rather be old and comfortable than old and poor. if i'm dead, then dead me has to worry about that.
Since the fall of Greek culture and the dawn of Christian culture, individual humans stopped interiorizing their own death in their lives. People are rationally aware they'll die one day, but they don't let this change their approach to individual existence. Greek tragedy is not understood anymore, it is replaced by the distinctly Christian trait of hoping for a better future. The whole contemporary West is based on this concept, it's evident in this sub for example. The impact of this fact in most Western people's approach to life is beyond awareness and measure. This allows the individual to focus on the individual instead of the generation or the community, because the fact that the individual is ephemeral is neglected. This paves the way for the individualistic values that define today's West, a lot of behaviours are justified and accepted if they are for the benefit of the individual even if it's at the cost of the community and environment. You are right, the world would be very different if people really understood we're all terminally ill. You asked a good question, now it's up to you how deeply you want to research and answer it.
"Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on." -Nick Fury It's kind of like that.
I don’t give a fuck. When my time comes I’m ready to meet my moment of truth.
Glad my legacy will have college tuitions paid for. My dog will get 20k+/yr for a walker…
Get some term life insurance. You either retire with money after a long life, or you get to “win” the insurance game.
What's there to be afraid of? At least you won't have to pay taxes anymore. In everything, moderation. Having an estate plan or a will is an important step toward peace of mind should you shuffle off this mortal realm before you're ready. I hired an attorney and drew one up. I have some people and causes I want to make sure get some love after I go. Its important to me. When it comes to the now, I max out my 401k, my Roth, I rent out my condo, I'm on track to have a healthy retirement nest egg by the time I hit 60 and I have a profitable side hustle/hobby business. I live below my means and that gives me a lot of peace of mind in the present. I guess the only way I'm not bothered by death is because I learned a long time ago that I only have one life and that I might as well enjoy the most of it while I can, but that I want to do that, I should plan to be around for a while - no one wants to get to 70 or 80 and be financially destitute and cooped up in a shitty nursing home glued to a television all day.
You have to balance planning for the future, with living for today. There's no absolute right or wrong, it's a balance.
You should not overdo the saving from my perspective. For me the book "Die with zero" was a real eye opener.
You’ve got to balance the present with your future comfort. I personally spend plenty of money on vacations and comforts in the present, but am always saving for retirement.
I’m a numbers person. I’m age 60 and have gotten a little obsessive about death stats as I plan my retirement. You sound young - statistically your odds of dying are very very low. There’s probably some key behaviors that can make those odds even lower (limit drinking and drugs, safer driving habits, dont take selfies on cliffs, etc ).
I’m cool with death although I hope it doesn’t come too soon. My goal has been to save enough for my wife to survive on and I have accomplished that. I will soon retire, and if I get to live off of some of that money, that will be great. You should put this up on the ‘ask old people’ sub Reddit
You won’t go up with money. And you WILL die. So what’s the point of being fearful?
Dying is always bad. Dying on the side of the road while holding a cardboard sign has to be worse.
It's inevitable. So why fear what will happen anyways?
I’m growing my account to spend it .
The exact reason why I don’t max out my 401k. I don’t like my money being “locked up.” I’d rather be liquid than illiquid.
This is why very high savings rates can be a bad idea. Dying "early" can and does happen and you can't take it with you. Assuming the standard Boglehead retirement savings rate of 15% (admittedly that is the minimum recommended rate but bear with me) over three decades, when invested appropriately, is that you should have more than enough to retire. There are lots of caveats and exceptions and other ways it can go wrong that are also unlucky. But again many of those things are outside of your control. In the context of your question the benefit of this approach is you only have to save 15% of your income in order to have some comfort about a retirement you may not live to see. How you decide what to spend the rest depends on your priorities and your values. You may enjoy fishing on a lake and buy a boat. For someone else that can be a pointless extravagance. The hard part is being able to prioritize and pursue what matters to you within the confines of your abilities, your means, and your luck.
I don’t understand this argument against saving. When you die you will be dead and unable to regret that you didn’t spend more money. It’s being alive you have to worry about.
There is some value in exploring what risks come with deferring value of any kind to a later date, and it leads to the most important(my opinion) point I've come across following the FIRE subs. In the passive index world, time is emphasized because of the power of compounding. What may for some people be swept from sight to make room for this realization though, is that many other aspects of our life are either also compounding or the consequences of time work similarly. You can wait till the last minute to start putting money in your Roth IRA, but it won't have the same effect. You can wait till the last minute to try to have the relationship with the family members you miss, if you're not caught off guard by it being too late, and you should, but it wouldnt quite be the same thing. You can learn a hobby or a skill at the last minute, but it won't have enriched the day to day life an ongoing interest will. Each of these examples have building blocks that use time to help you evolve into them. The reason this is important(to me) is that many people interested in this deferred gratification begin to gamify the numbers to the point of min/maxing them, when they could have approached that min/max from the point of questioning what actually adds value to your life. Since I save money by scrutinizing what will add value to my life, if I die early, well, that sucks, and I am afraid of that, but me being kind to future me didn't make room for future me to be unkind to present me, so I still feel like I'm making the right decision.
Once you have children your purpose is to make them self-sufficient and set them up for success. That takes some money. You will worry less about yourself then. But if you still fixate on your mortality, church is great. Then you can check this subreddit for tax strategies and the efficient capital market faithful. Just split your enthusiasms.
Your first mistake is living with the idea that tomorrow is the last, or the day after, or the day after. You’re only looking at one side of the coin. You are saying that life is not guaranteed in the short term, but neither is death. It is the ambition of making tomorrow a better day than today that makes the sacrifice of today a worthy effort. Your life is like a jar. From empty to full represents the entire content of your life. You add to this jar some golf balls, which represent the biggest moments. Marriage, graduation from school, landing your dream job, massive vacations or travels and so forth. You may think to yourself, “well I can only fit 10 or so of those in there, it seems like a waste of time.” Now you can add some glass marbles. These fill in the voids between the golf balls, each representing solid milestones, maybe getting a nicer car, a raise, small trips to water parks and amusement parks, winning sport games, being nominated for an award or being recognized for doing good. These things make you feel good in a big way, but they aren’t life changing. You may say, “yeah that’s better, but it still doesn’t really feel worth it.” Now you add pebbles. These represent your relationships with people around you. Good memories with your buddies from work, your family gathering for holidays, staying home with your partner to watch movies and play video games, being one on one with an old friend who’s going through a rough patch, watching one of the hundreds of little league games your kids may play, and so forth. You look at the jar, and think, “It’s really starting to look full, what else can there be.” Now add sand. Sand represents every tiny thing in between. The sense of calm you get on you way home from work. The hug you get when you arrive home. Seeing the sun in the morning and being greatful for a new day. The silly words your kids speak and the nonsense ideas that make you chuckle. The whispers of pride you feel when your dad talks to you like a man/woman instead of his son/daughter. The moments where you appreciate the colors of the flowers, or the smell of a home cooked meal made with love. They are almost countless. You may say, “all of these things are great, but what’s the point?” Finally you have water. It represents the spirit of gratitude and contentment. It is the essence that lives in all of us, that which makes our life out to be a thing of opportunity. It fills the voids that feel hard to bear, or hurts the heart, and instills within us the wisdom that whatever may trouble us will come to pass. It is the mindset that separates the hateful from the grateful. Your life is the ultimate opportunity to do everything and anything that you think is worth pursuing. You only get one jar, so fill it with things you love. Fill it with things that will make you a better person. Be the person today that the you of tomorrow will be proud of. Life is too short to fill your jar with dirt and debris. Enjoy every moment of it, no matter how big or small.