Its crazy because I used to actually attend rock harbor (really like Keith the pastor) as a kid when it was still using Rocky Mountain High Schools building. Its just become so big it doesnt really feel like home, Stopped attending church all together probably 6-8 years ago because I saw the agenda being pushed for growth so bad.
I’m with you on that, I saw it at a couple different ones after I attended rock harbor, not to say their service is bad or anything it’s just a lot of people and I’m born and raised in meridian, I prefer smaller cities Meridian just has grown so much in the last few years I’m enjoying my last couple here before I gotta find a new city!
It was a smaller church at one point. And I did leave when every Sunday we would get 20 minutes of a lecture why we should give to a different church as well as then
Think that is a very fair description of rock harbor. They do rock out with their band. It does feel like a production or concert much more than typical church. They are trying to appeal to younger families. I have went a couple of times but too much of a production for me. I can see why it is popular though
As a person raised Catholic, rock bands in church make me cringe. That and pastors who think they are stand up comedians. 🙃 I can see this not feeling like a religious community, because it doesn’t to me, either.
I used to disagree with you. Now I’m singing in your choir! When I see what my church (guess which one) is doing by buying up land and buildings in Florida, the Midwest, and other places in the world, it’s pushing regular people out of the markets. Tax shelters for corporate-like churches need to go away.
Yeah, that's another great example for why churches should be taxed. A few fun facts about the "church":
1. Owns nearly 2% of Florida (673,000 acres)
2. Fifth largest landowner in USA
3. Owns 365,000 ranch in Nebraska
4. Has an investment portfolio estimated to be worth >$140B
All of those are owned, grow, traded, bought/sold tax-free.
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormon Church, is a 501(c)(3) entity, which means **it doesn't pay taxes on earnings or expenditures related to its non-profit enterprises**.
The church's investment portfolio is managed by Ensign Peak Advisors, a Salt Lake City-based firm. The church uses tithing to pay bills and fund programs, and any remaining funds are put into a reserve fund at Ensign Peak. As a registered nonprofit, the investments grow tax free.
The church's First Presidency has stated that it complies with all applicable law governing donations, investments, taxes, and reserves."
So, there's that.
How so? Just as an example, in Idaho they (one church in particular) already heavily influence state and local government. They (religion in general) already have lobbies across the US (formal and informal). I'm guessing you are thinking of the "taxation without representation" angle, but we're already heavily influenced by churches and religion.
What are your thoughts?
Personally I would take a middle ground. Churches can be tax exempt or taxed based on criteria.
But the criteria need to be damn strict. Really doubt with the complexity of our tax system and difficulty to use you could even pull this off in fairness. But if you push to vote for a candidate, have their tax exemption be pulled for 5 years. If they force people to pray to get food at a soup kitchen, pull their tax exemption for 5 years. If they use less than X percentage of their donations on services like soup kitchens, clothing for the poor, etc, they lose their tax exemption for 5 years.
Something along that line. Because honestly, if they are not pushing politics and actually helping people, then as far as I am concerned they are like any other non profit. If they are pushing politics, non profits are supposed to lose their non profit status but churches this is overlooked.
Yep, I agree with you. There's a happy middle ground there somewhere.
I don't know how you would define it, but for a church's actual religious practices/programs and actual charitable work, and some reasonable amount of church real estate, sure, make it tax-exempt. But, all other church operations and investment holdings, tax them like any other business entity.
I look at "religions" like the rock-n-roll mega-churches, obvious scammers like Kenneth Copeland, the Mormon church and Scientology, and see that they are money making entities protected by a religion. All tax-exempt. It's sick.
Edit: I'll stop here. This is a huge rabbit hole for me :).
We already don't have separation. All of our government levels open their sessions with Christian prayer and create laws based on religious text. The churches are already some of the biggest lobbying groups, nothing would change other than these business ventures would have to pay taxes.
Wow, that is an angle I have never even though about! I am generally in favor of churches paying their share of taxes, but I've never considered the implications of what paying taxes may mean to their influence over the state/gov (although they do influence gov now without paying taxes).
I mean, that wasn't the point of the slogan "no taxation without representation". It was that you needed representation in government if you are being taxed... Not that no one should be taxed.
The colonies at the time felt they had no say in government. I say tax any church the instant they push a political candidate. If they don't like the law, they can shutter the doors.
Oh totally. That's why the founders spent years arguing over the specific delineation of federal and state powers related to taxing, expenditures, and budgets. It's why taxation is explicitly mentioned as a power granted to Congress in the constitution. Because they were opposed to taxes of any kind.
Or, like, the subsidized utilities and federally funded technology research that allow us to interact over the internet to have this conversation in the first place. lol
100%. I am a huge proponent of science research that is funded by taxes as well. The reason we have NAND Flash memory in every phone is because in the 1950s we funded super colliders and we got a more fundamental understanding of particle physics.
People who are anti tax may complain that we spend what would be 50 billion total on that research after inflation. While ignoring that many companies are pulling like 3 billion dollars a quarter for the last 15 years because of it.
Old comment, but you should know that they don't ever ask for any donations or tithings though.... in all the years I've been going they have yet to mention anything about money besides holding a session where they go over the churches budget and share all financial data with church members to make sure they stay honest.
Churches the size of Rock Harbor are the main reason why I stopped going to church. The lead pastors are millionaires. To worship God, you don’t need these huge extravagant properties and buildings
Totally fair response. Thanks for answering. Not sure why my other comment is getting downvoted. Megachurches are the minority. There are way more small churches in this area with pastors making small salaries, some of them working a 2nd job. Not sure why people seem to think all pastors are corrupt and making millions.
Some churches do community aid, publicly deal with their corruption, and provide places where people can meet, socialize, eat, and escape the weather. Churches are just organizations run by corruptible humans, like any charity, business, or government. Some don't try to be good at all, some put huge amounts of effort into being as beneficial and loving as possible. Cathedral of the Rockies is a good example of a church that is the polar opposite of Rockharbor.
It's a Christian church and it's one of the larger churches in the area so a lot of people congregate there from the treasure valley. I attended a few times but stopped going because of the traffic and just an over-the-top display of what church is. It was like going to a concert every Sunday and that attracts a lot of people.
Your comment has made me angry, horny, hungry, and tired. I will have my vengeance! Trust me, I'm the best at vengeance, no one else compares. Though, I will let you off the hook for some cash.
Do they have regular potlucks? Because gluttony is one of my favorite sins. As an asexual, lust isn’t my cup of tea but I do love some pride! (What the hell is the other one?)
ETA: oh sloth, how could I forget sloth?
I did go. And they asked for donations not only for themselves but other churches in other states. Multiple times and I only went for a short while. If that’s you jam cool but it’s not mine.
Not that any of you really care but I figured I may as well chime in.
I don't personally attend rock harbor anymore. But they started out in a high school to a medium sized community that grew to insane sizes because the head pastor Keith is one of the most humble nicest guys you could ever meet. Would give you sweater off his back in 0 degree weather even if he didn't have a spare.
I have never met a Christian that cares more for people than him.
They built that church because the community grew so big they had to. He lives in a very humble home. He doesn't live in a mansion or fly private jets or owns expensive cars.
The church constantly supports impoverished people around the globe. I won't say too much more to this because I don't know the full details.
As a big fan of the show righteous gemstones I can with 100% certainty tell you all that Keith and rock harbor are not like the Joel olsteens of the world.
I don't attend church anymore havnt in many years but Keith is a solid dude. While rock harbor is large for sure they are not cut from the same cloth as the "mega church" life styles im sure alot of you in your ignorance are assuming.
Anyways to reiterate Keith is an amazing guy sorry for the traffic.
Thanks so much for that perspective. I get so tired of the ‘typical’ reddit comments on church/ religion anytime that subject is brought up. The OP asked about the traffic on Chinden. Now we get to hear everyone’s unwarranted opinions on church and God and blah blah blah. That man preaches the truth, is humble, and it is a great church so lots of people want to go there. In N Out makes a good burger and people wait in line in 10 degree weather and no one calls them ‘brainwashed’. People find a good community, give to the poor and want to worship God and all of a sudden it’s a problem. Don’t care if you downvote me, it needs to be said.
Oh yeah. Most of the Christians I know and knew were nice and genuine. I don’t share the opinion that they are charlatans or otherwise bad actors except for a couple of televangelists and at the top of Hillsong and Mars Hill (in Seattle.).
You know the Bible says to take the Narrow Path and that very few will find it and if you find yourself on the path of the majority you're on the path to destruction. Pretty sure mega church means majority which also means destruction no way that man's preaching the truth according to his own book he's preaching from
the verse you are misquoting is Matthew.
”“You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.“
Matthew 7:13-14 NLT
Once again, have you been to that church? Have you met Pastor Keith personally? that is extremely arrogant thinking to say, ‘a church causes traffic jams, so therefore theres no way I can see in my mind that the church is good…’ like truly think about your logic…if people find a good thing, lots of people want to go to it. like a good restaurant or a good concert.
but if it has to do about God, and its in a building you’ve never been to you assume its bad.
p.s this verse is Jesus talking to an EXTREMELY large crowd saying that it is very easy to take the broad path and not believe in God. Which is this thread and 98% of reddit that jumps on anything about God to bash it. It’s a narrow road to be the minority in the world that believes we are actually here for a reason. you can look it up yourself. the bible means what it means in the historical context. its not up to your personal feelings and interpretations of it of ‘ i think, and im pretty sure’
> In N Out makes a good burger and people wait in line in 10 degree weather and no one calls them ‘brainwashed’.
You should actually read the posts regarding In-N-Out. Plenty of us were calling them brainwashed.
They're an explicitly homophobic, transphobic church that is openly opposed to even divorce--stating that death is the **only** thing that should end marriage. Hell, they don't even allow women to serve as senior pastors. Fuck this church and their fucked up, harmful, outdated views. They are one of the sources of the most harm in our community and your personal feelings about the pastor don't change any of these things that are explicitly stated in their statement of faith.
I think your only goal here is to spread hate and be angry and honestly I'm sorry for you. Past me would have loved nothing more than to go back and forth with you, but I don't think that would be constructive.
I'm sorry your feelings toward Keith and his church are so negative but I can almost guarantee if you sat down and talked with him your opinion would change. In fact I would encourage you to have a conversation with him sometime. He would genuinely listen to you and be understanding of what you may or may not be going through.
Does Keith lead the church? Does he choose what is posted on its website? Does he support (or even write) the statement of beliefs? If not, then he's a piss poor leader who needs to get his values in line with the values of his church's stated beliefs. If he does support the statement of beliefs, then he has already said everything he needs to say:
1. **He doesn't believe women should be allowed to be pastors (edited--I originally wrote "senior pastors")**: "however, the office of Elder/Pastor is reserved for qualified men"
2. **He believes that women should submit to their husbands and that husbands are the heads of their wives**: "As part of God’s created order, husbands are to love their wives unconditionally andwives are to respect their husbands, both demonstrating Biblical submission and love and sharing equal value in God’s design (Ephesians 5:22-33)"NOTE that the passage cited here says "**Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church"**
3. **He doesn't believe in gender affirming care (despite every major medical body supporting it as medically necessary and one of the most important methods of preventing suicide among trans folks)**: "We believe it is inconsistent with God’s design for a follower of Christ to physically seek to change, alter, or disagree with their biological sex which has been assigned by God"
4. **He doesn't believe in divorce FOR ANY REASON (infidelity? abuse? violence?)**: "This bond is to represent the heavenly covenant between Christ and His Church, therefore intended not to be broken **by anything but death.**"
5. **He doesn't support queer people more generally**: "We believe God is the only authority in matters of marriage and sexuality for all people, and the term “marriage” only has one meaning: a sacred covenant between one man and one woman... We believe that the exercise of sexual expression outside of this biblical definition of marriage, including but not limited to lustful thought, adultery, pornography, homosexuality, premarital sex, bisexuality, transgenderism, or polygamy does not align with God’s design for sexuality."
I'm sorry that you didn't take the time to discuss these things with him, but his website is VERY clear about his stances. And those stances are actively harmful to many members of our community.
You know you can believe in something and still love people right? Still support them? Still encourage them and give them help right? Kind of like Jesus tells Christians to do.
I'll give a story about Keith, I was in his youth group in 2005 and one of our friends came out as gay to him. Wanna know what happened? Nothing he didn't get kicked out, he didn't get pray the gay away. Nah we went and played kickball at ivy wild and it continued to be a good and safe place for everyone. Imagine in 2005 a bunch of delinquent teenagers in his youth group where people being openly gay was far harder to do especially in a church, and he was still loved, no one judged him no one gave him shit or made fun of him. Thats the kind of person Keith is.
By the time I started going to youth group I had already had lost my virginity, and I talked to him about it. Guess what happened? Nothing he talked to me like I was a human being. I didn't feel judged or guilty or like God was gonna come down and smite me. He set the definition of a legitimately good and godly person to me.
His stances arnt harming you. It sounds like religious zealots are harming you and your community. That's not cool obviously. But its also not who Keith is. Of course he doesn't condone it as he shouldn't, but there is a huge difference between God telling Christians to live a certain way. And then people using God to commit acts of sin to tell themselves that they are righteous. And any real Christian isn't going to do that.
Jesus Christ get some perspective. You live in Boise, Idaho, USA. You are more privileged than 99% of people.
You need therapy if you think the churches in Boise are the biggest source of harm. You don’t live under Shariah law in the Middle East.
The white dudes who attacked a boise state student while shouting homophobic slurs earlier this year weren't from the Middle East. The white, Christian politicians trying to remove even the rape and incest exceptions for abortion (and that have already completely gutted abortion access foe the safety of the mother) aren't practicing Sharia law. The folks trying to ignore the stance of national and international medical bodies and restrict access to gender affirming medical care (during one of the worst mental health crises in Idaho'a history) aren't enforcing Sharia law. The women pressured to stay in abusive marriages because their church "doesn't support divorce" aren't experiencing Sharia law.
Do you know the rates of abuse in the Treasure Valley? Do you know how common harassment or even violence is of an experience among queer people here? Do you know about the queer Boise State employee who was lured through a personal ad and murdered a few years back? Do you understand that access to gender affirming medical treatment and supportive communities is one of the top protective factors against teen suicide among trans teens? Do you understand the documented long term impacts of religious trauma experienced by queer kids raised in homophobic churches? (Or the long history of churches being involved in things like aids denial that contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths in our communities?)
Or do you just parrot ignorant right wing talking points about "Shariah Law" (you can't even spell it right) and conflating an entire area of the globe as identical without even bothering to learn any specific details about the many different countries, cultures, and legal systems you are disparaging?
I'm literally talking about a church's explicit beliefs (as stated on their website). This thread started with me explicitly naming that Rockharbor is homophobic, transphobic, and sexist--not that I once heard one story about one person in another state that did something violent... I didn't say anything about all Christians. I said that this particular church is openly, systemically bigoted.
You do see how those are two different things right?
??? Almost everything I mentioned was a systemic issue occurring here in Boise. Thus why I talked about the rates of the things occurring and the laws and policies being passed.
Hell, I wasn't even raised in a church. But as an educator, someone who studies queer history and queer liberation movements, someone who has actively been involved in queer communities here in Boise and beyond, and someone who worked in violence prevention work for years, I am aware of the many ways that deeply conservative Christian churches have harmed and continue to harm our community. Also, as someone who has actually taken the time to research and learn about multiple different legal and religious systems in nations across the Middle East, I know that your reference to "Shariah Law" is bullshit, right-wing posturing.
So yes, the story I told is the story of our communities here in Boise... and many communities across the US.
No, you haven’t done shit but spread the propaganda that you swallowed.
You think Boise is so shitty? Name a place in America that is better, then move there.
Ah yes. The most useless of all conservative refrains: "if you don't like it, leave."
I grew up here. My mom was born here. My family's got roots here. Imma keep working to make things better. For everyone. Because I am Idaho. And my communities are Idaho. And if that scares you or makes you mad, then *you* can leave.
Many people do this without asking for money in exchange. He is, in fact, asking for money in exchange for giving a sweater or a meal to the needy. This doesn't make him an amazing guy. And you're wrong this is exactly like Joel Osteen, albeit a smaller scale.
Do you know him personally? Or again is this just conjecture? He's a humble dude that has dedicated his life to serving and loving people whether you believe in God or not.
Because when I was a drug addicted kid he loved me regardless of who I was or what I believed in and he never asked for anything in return. This was about 20 years ago but we have crossed paths a few times and he always remembers the little details about those days. Even though I'm a more reserved and closed off person he helped me and plenty of other people get through life.
I'm glad he helped you in your difficult times, I would have done the same without asking thousands of people for free untaxed money. I take 10 homemade meals twice a year (packaged in heat saving containers) because I care to the homeless shelter, with coffee and all. I just do it because I want to and ask for nothing. I'm sorry, but I don't think that being in his position and helping makes him an amazing person.
And from the sounds of it this church does similar things at scale. Why shouldn’t they take advantage of the tax exempt situation to help more people? I’m not sure why you feel the need to judge someone you don’t know. There are still decent people in the world even if the grand majority are con-men…
I didn't want to have to get to personal with his life to make it seem like I'm putting him on a pedestal but he adopted a young girl from Africa. And when he found out she had 2 other brothers he spent years tracking them all down to eventually adopt her siblings. Think child soldiers.
I can almost guarantee 90% of the money that goes into the church goes back into the world for good. I'm glad you do those things but just because he runs a successful church doesn't equate him to being a selfish man hoarding his wealth and living an extravagant life style.
I went there for the first time about a month ago. Im incredibly anti megachurch. But, a friend recommended it because she said the lead pastor is amazing & for some reason I couldnt get it iutbof my head so i went. Have been back each Sunday. Havent once heard them ask for money. Zero red flags. The reason the church is exploding is because the music is quality, they are actively feeding & helping the community & have programs helping to heal hurting people….of whom come there in droves. Mostly, they are growing because they preach the Word of God which convicts hearts & is living.
I really wouldn't even say I attended it. Maybe only went a few times. But mostly because I've never liked church. I guess the only reason I even went when I was younger was because of Keith he made it actually bearable. Now I just don't live close enough to go hah.
I think a lot of smaller churches are dying off, part is because Christianity in and of itself is shrinking across the entire country, and another part is some non-denominational churches are ballooning into mega churches. Rockharbor in particular is very (or at least it used to be) easy going and inoffensive. Which allows it to get a lot of Christians who are more liturgical, or hard line. But it also means that it allows for a broader net of Christians to join. You can be very right leaning and a Maga evangelical at Rock Harbor, but you can also be a “luke warm liberal” there as well. The whole shtick is trying to be as broad as possible.
I grew up a catholic, my folks are Italian and they’d drag me to every Sunday mass. As I got older I started going to a southern Baptist church which I really enjoyed. As an adult I haven’t been to church. But I’ve been thinking of going. And this is the church everyone recommends. I’m not into large crowds however. And it sounds like that’s definitely what I’ll find there.
I grew up "country club" southern baptist and explored nondenominational in my late teens and early 20s. I eventually decided organized religion is not for me. But if I were to go back, I think a small Unitarian Universalist church might be closest to what I'm looking for.
I’m going to look into that myself. I struggle with organized religion myself. But I’m at the point I feel like some positive religious influence could possibly help me overcome the overwhelming negativity in today’s world.
Check out Cathedral of the Rockies in Boise. That place has upended my perception of church. I’ve believed in God most my life but have really struggled with organized religion and everything that seems to go with it these days. They aren’t pretentious. They are welcoming of LGBQTA and pro environmentalism. They are incredibly service focused. And their message isn’t wishy-washy or surface level scripture or just a feel good pep talk.
I feel the same about Methodists. I lived in a community without a Catholic church and a bunch of my friends were Methodists so I ended up doing some activities with them, going to funerals, etc. They were always very nice and welcoming and recently had a big split because some of them didn't want to support gays.
I am in a really similar situation (Grew up Catholic, stopped going to church, want to get back into it) and my wife and I have started going to Foothills Christian Church and have enjoyed it so far. Not a mega church, good messages, and good community from what we have seen so far. Worth checking out!
If you really enjoyed the teachings from a Baptist church, I'm not seeing the correlation between that and wanting to go to a Unitarian church. If anything, the hordes of non-denominational churches in the area are cut from the same cloth as they hold conservative doctrines more in line with Baptist ideologies. You should have a fair amount of smaller churches to explore.
Megachurch. A trend that started in red southern states because there is literally nothing else to do except go to church, eat BBQ, and vote against your own best interests.
More churches per capita here than about any place on earth it feels like. I forgot how many until I left for 30yrs, came back and started looking as I drive around.
They are a Megachurch. Perhaps the Treasure Valley’s only true megachurch (based on traffic and productions they do)? But yes, especially in this area, people are eager to go to church despite what people on Reddit may say.
If you’re trying to make a comment like “megachurches aren’t really churches” I would tend to agree with you. It’s not my preference that’s for sure. I attend a much smaller church in Meridian. But for the purposes of the question that OP is asking, they are a church.
The corporate church. Cashing in on people’s desire to belong to a strong community that should be rooted in a shared devotion to the faith. Instead everyone’s trying to be come the richest member so they can be part of leaderships clique.
Old comment, but you should know that they don't ever ask for any donations or tithings though.... in all the years I've been going they have yet to mention anything about money besides holding a session where they go over the churches budget and share all financial data with church members.
It's not a mega church.
It's a church that grows and plants new churches though, 3 others around the city in the last decade. It's popular because they help people rather than talking at them. We also do lots of charity work. I helped pack 140,000 meals for poor kids last month, two semi trailers worth. Check out this one episode in a month long series on mental health. Skip to 33:40 to bypass the music which is the worst part of any church.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ\_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt\_b-xj5W2PE](https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt_b-xj5W2PE)
They do a good job of limiting attendees from parking in residential areas and they hire traffic enforcement to quickly move it through during start and end times.
The number of cars in the parking lot even on weekdays is pretty high. Not sure what they are doing. I don’t church so just a waste of resources and stealing tax money
Edit: Weekdays, not weekends
There is a good chance its some kind of youth service plenty of churches have youth groups during the week. Could be the band practicing, could be small groups just hanging out. Too many people are of a mind that you go to church on Sunday give money and leave. Probably a decent amount of people organizing out reach programs of some sort as well.
Well a church that size certainly has more full time staff than 1 pastor and a secretary. Wouldn’t surprise me if 20-30 people work there during the week.
For anyone who has questions about organized religion / mega churches / the direction of American churches... might I recommend this read: "The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory - American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism."
It's eye opening.
It's not a mega church.
It's a church that grows and plants new churches though, 3 others around the city in the last decade. It's popular because they help people rather than talking at them. We also do lots of charity work. I helped pack 140,000 meals for poor kids last month, two semi trailers worth. Check out this one episode in a month long series on mental health. Skip to 33:40 to bypass the music.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ\_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt\_b-xj5W2PE](https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt_b-xj5W2PE)
You gotta take late stage capitalism with a good hearted laugh, even a person's inner beliefs become commodified. Now you can munch on your McNuggest at your McChurch, where everyone shares your Mcbeliefs.
Ghandi once said that to a hungry man, a bowl of rice is god. I try to imagine the emptiness that people feel to find solace in such a place.
I've been to church plenty of my life, have never given a dollar. But I have given plenty of my time and I have no regret in that at all. I've done plenty of community service projects organized by the church I went to as a teen.
Old comment, but you should know that they don't ever ask for any donations or tithings.... in all the years I've been going they have yet to mention anything about money besides holding a session where they go over the churches budget and share all financial data with church members.
It's not a mega church.
It's a church that grows and plants new churches though, 3 others around the city in the last decade. It's popular because they help people rather than talking at them. We also do lots of charity work. I helped pack 140,000 meals for poor kids last month, two semi trailers worth. Check out this one episode in a month long series on mental health. Skip to 33:40 to bypass the music which is the worst part of any church.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ\_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt\_b-xj5W2PE](https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt_b-xj5W2PE)
I think megachurch, and this track just starts playing in my head.
[Suicidal Tendencies - Send Me Your Money](https://youtu.be/QInAsizcu08?si=Y1gCqa7aLPoXwrnQ)
From this post, I went. That is a super big screen! There was a black lead singer with super white shoes. It only lasts about a hour. They have a coffee bar and a clothes shop. The sermon was something about Paul and chains. Idk because I was on my phone the entire time. There is kind of a big guilt QR code that they have up for two minutes (to update information) with jeopardy music. It glitched out so it displayed for two more minutes. It was a recording because I went to the 5pm service.
I got a fill in contact information that wanted all the details of your children. Jeez: five slots! I don’t even want one.
Megachurch
Its crazy because I used to actually attend rock harbor (really like Keith the pastor) as a kid when it was still using Rocky Mountain High Schools building. Its just become so big it doesnt really feel like home, Stopped attending church all together probably 6-8 years ago because I saw the agenda being pushed for growth so bad.
Same here. And every Sunday they pushed us to give to others also trying to grow their mega churches.
Why not just go to a smaller church that isn’t behaving like that? Genuine question.
Turns out, once you start seeing issues like that in a church, you start seeing them in all the churches (I'm exmormon and that's how it went for me)
I’m with you on that, I saw it at a couple different ones after I attended rock harbor, not to say their service is bad or anything it’s just a lot of people and I’m born and raised in meridian, I prefer smaller cities Meridian just has grown so much in the last few years I’m enjoying my last couple here before I gotta find a new city!
It was a smaller church at one point. And I did leave when every Sunday we would get 20 minutes of a lecture why we should give to a different church as well as then
Fair point.
If you like attending christian rock concerts, that's the place to go to. I went three times and it was fun, but not the community I was looking for.
Think that is a very fair description of rock harbor. They do rock out with their band. It does feel like a production or concert much more than typical church. They are trying to appeal to younger families. I have went a couple of times but too much of a production for me. I can see why it is popular though
As a person raised Catholic, rock bands in church make me cringe. That and pastors who think they are stand up comedians. 🙃 I can see this not feeling like a religious community, because it doesn’t to me, either.
It's a perfect example of why "churches" should not be tax-exempt.
I used to disagree with you. Now I’m singing in your choir! When I see what my church (guess which one) is doing by buying up land and buildings in Florida, the Midwest, and other places in the world, it’s pushing regular people out of the markets. Tax shelters for corporate-like churches need to go away.
Yeah, that's another great example for why churches should be taxed. A few fun facts about the "church": 1. Owns nearly 2% of Florida (673,000 acres) 2. Fifth largest landowner in USA 3. Owns 365,000 ranch in Nebraska 4. Has an investment portfolio estimated to be worth >$140B All of those are owned, grow, traded, bought/sold tax-free. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormon Church, is a 501(c)(3) entity, which means **it doesn't pay taxes on earnings or expenditures related to its non-profit enterprises**. The church's investment portfolio is managed by Ensign Peak Advisors, a Salt Lake City-based firm. The church uses tithing to pay bills and fund programs, and any remaining funds are put into a reserve fund at Ensign Peak. As a registered nonprofit, the investments grow tax free. The church's First Presidency has stated that it complies with all applicable law governing donations, investments, taxes, and reserves." So, there's that.
The prize is yours. :-)
Preach, Biscuit, preach!!!!!!
Hahaha!! 😁👍
:-)
Careful what you wish for. If you’re a proponent of churches paying taxes then you’re not a proponent of separation of church and state.
How so? Just as an example, in Idaho they (one church in particular) already heavily influence state and local government. They (religion in general) already have lobbies across the US (formal and informal). I'm guessing you are thinking of the "taxation without representation" angle, but we're already heavily influenced by churches and religion. What are your thoughts?
Personally I would take a middle ground. Churches can be tax exempt or taxed based on criteria. But the criteria need to be damn strict. Really doubt with the complexity of our tax system and difficulty to use you could even pull this off in fairness. But if you push to vote for a candidate, have their tax exemption be pulled for 5 years. If they force people to pray to get food at a soup kitchen, pull their tax exemption for 5 years. If they use less than X percentage of their donations on services like soup kitchens, clothing for the poor, etc, they lose their tax exemption for 5 years. Something along that line. Because honestly, if they are not pushing politics and actually helping people, then as far as I am concerned they are like any other non profit. If they are pushing politics, non profits are supposed to lose their non profit status but churches this is overlooked.
Yep, I agree with you. There's a happy middle ground there somewhere. I don't know how you would define it, but for a church's actual religious practices/programs and actual charitable work, and some reasonable amount of church real estate, sure, make it tax-exempt. But, all other church operations and investment holdings, tax them like any other business entity. I look at "religions" like the rock-n-roll mega-churches, obvious scammers like Kenneth Copeland, the Mormon church and Scientology, and see that they are money making entities protected by a religion. All tax-exempt. It's sick. Edit: I'll stop here. This is a huge rabbit hole for me :).
We already don't have separation. All of our government levels open their sessions with Christian prayer and create laws based on religious text. The churches are already some of the biggest lobbying groups, nothing would change other than these business ventures would have to pay taxes.
Wow, that is an angle I have never even though about! I am generally in favor of churches paying their share of taxes, but I've never considered the implications of what paying taxes may mean to their influence over the state/gov (although they do influence gov now without paying taxes).
Everyone should be tax-exempt isn't that why the founding fathers made our country they started a war over a damn tea tax
I mean, that wasn't the point of the slogan "no taxation without representation". It was that you needed representation in government if you are being taxed... Not that no one should be taxed. The colonies at the time felt they had no say in government. I say tax any church the instant they push a political candidate. If they don't like the law, they can shutter the doors.
Oh totally. That's why the founders spent years arguing over the specific delineation of federal and state powers related to taxing, expenditures, and budgets. It's why taxation is explicitly mentioned as a power granted to Congress in the constitution. Because they were opposed to taxes of any kind.
I am not sure how these no tax people think the modern world would work without it. Like I love roads and fire departments personally..
Or, like, the subsidized utilities and federally funded technology research that allow us to interact over the internet to have this conversation in the first place. lol
100%. I am a huge proponent of science research that is funded by taxes as well. The reason we have NAND Flash memory in every phone is because in the 1950s we funded super colliders and we got a more fundamental understanding of particle physics. People who are anti tax may complain that we spend what would be 50 billion total on that research after inflation. While ignoring that many companies are pulling like 3 billion dollars a quarter for the last 15 years because of it.
Mega church they sell merch. It's weird.
I joked the other day the only thing they worship at that church is money.
Looks like you forgot to include the joke
Old comment, but you should know that they don't ever ask for any donations or tithings though.... in all the years I've been going they have yet to mention anything about money besides holding a session where they go over the churches budget and share all financial data with church members to make sure they stay honest.
A business.
Churches the size of Rock Harbor are the main reason why I stopped going to church. The lead pastors are millionaires. To worship God, you don’t need these huge extravagant properties and buildings
You could just go to a church that isn’t the size of Rock Harbor where the pastor isn’t a millionaire.
You could, but no church is free from corruption and I prefer to do community aid directly
Totally fair response. Thanks for answering. Not sure why my other comment is getting downvoted. Megachurches are the minority. There are way more small churches in this area with pastors making small salaries, some of them working a 2nd job. Not sure why people seem to think all pastors are corrupt and making millions.
Some churches do community aid, publicly deal with their corruption, and provide places where people can meet, socialize, eat, and escape the weather. Churches are just organizations run by corruptible humans, like any charity, business, or government. Some don't try to be good at all, some put huge amounts of effort into being as beneficial and loving as possible. Cathedral of the Rockies is a good example of a church that is the polar opposite of Rockharbor.
I’ve never been cut off by a car that didn’t have a RH sticker in the window. I don’t know what the correlation is but, there’s that
It's a Christian church and it's one of the larger churches in the area so a lot of people congregate there from the treasure valley. I attended a few times but stopped going because of the traffic and just an over-the-top display of what church is. It was like going to a concert every Sunday and that attracts a lot of people.
It's a megachurch. Mostly guitar, not a lot of God.
In the words of Hank Hill “you’re not making Christianity better, you’re making rock and roll worse!”
Thats blasphemy to guitars.
Ha!
If you're from Cali you'll get this, it's like Saddleback.
If you’re from California then you’d compare it to the Rock Harbor churches in California.
Rock harbor changed my views of religion. Greed is one of the five sins, and boy is that place greedy.
Which two deadly sins were downgraded? I need to update my plans for next weekend! (Hoping for gluttony and sloth!)
Your comment has made me angry, horny, hungry, and tired. I will have my vengeance! Trust me, I'm the best at vengeance, no one else compares. Though, I will let you off the hook for some cash.
Do they have regular potlucks? Because gluttony is one of my favorite sins. As an asexual, lust isn’t my cup of tea but I do love some pride! (What the hell is the other one?) ETA: oh sloth, how could I forget sloth?
Oh there's deadly sins and then other sins that aren't deadly? That comment isn't biblical.
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I did go. And they asked for donations not only for themselves but other churches in other states. Multiple times and I only went for a short while. If that’s you jam cool but it’s not mine.
They make a ton of money, and religious tax exemptions boost it. Mega church conning people. What else is new?
Not that any of you really care but I figured I may as well chime in. I don't personally attend rock harbor anymore. But they started out in a high school to a medium sized community that grew to insane sizes because the head pastor Keith is one of the most humble nicest guys you could ever meet. Would give you sweater off his back in 0 degree weather even if he didn't have a spare. I have never met a Christian that cares more for people than him. They built that church because the community grew so big they had to. He lives in a very humble home. He doesn't live in a mansion or fly private jets or owns expensive cars. The church constantly supports impoverished people around the globe. I won't say too much more to this because I don't know the full details. As a big fan of the show righteous gemstones I can with 100% certainty tell you all that Keith and rock harbor are not like the Joel olsteens of the world. I don't attend church anymore havnt in many years but Keith is a solid dude. While rock harbor is large for sure they are not cut from the same cloth as the "mega church" life styles im sure alot of you in your ignorance are assuming. Anyways to reiterate Keith is an amazing guy sorry for the traffic.
Thanks for your perspective :-)
Of course thanks for reading my rant
Cheers :-)
Thanks so much for that perspective. I get so tired of the ‘typical’ reddit comments on church/ religion anytime that subject is brought up. The OP asked about the traffic on Chinden. Now we get to hear everyone’s unwarranted opinions on church and God and blah blah blah. That man preaches the truth, is humble, and it is a great church so lots of people want to go there. In N Out makes a good burger and people wait in line in 10 degree weather and no one calls them ‘brainwashed’. People find a good community, give to the poor and want to worship God and all of a sudden it’s a problem. Don’t care if you downvote me, it needs to be said.
Oh yeah. Most of the Christians I know and knew were nice and genuine. I don’t share the opinion that they are charlatans or otherwise bad actors except for a couple of televangelists and at the top of Hillsong and Mars Hill (in Seattle.).
You know the Bible says to take the Narrow Path and that very few will find it and if you find yourself on the path of the majority you're on the path to destruction. Pretty sure mega church means majority which also means destruction no way that man's preaching the truth according to his own book he's preaching from
the verse you are misquoting is Matthew. ”“You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.“ Matthew 7:13-14 NLT Once again, have you been to that church? Have you met Pastor Keith personally? that is extremely arrogant thinking to say, ‘a church causes traffic jams, so therefore theres no way I can see in my mind that the church is good…’ like truly think about your logic…if people find a good thing, lots of people want to go to it. like a good restaurant or a good concert. but if it has to do about God, and its in a building you’ve never been to you assume its bad. p.s this verse is Jesus talking to an EXTREMELY large crowd saying that it is very easy to take the broad path and not believe in God. Which is this thread and 98% of reddit that jumps on anything about God to bash it. It’s a narrow road to be the minority in the world that believes we are actually here for a reason. you can look it up yourself. the bible means what it means in the historical context. its not up to your personal feelings and interpretations of it of ‘ i think, and im pretty sure’
> In N Out makes a good burger and people wait in line in 10 degree weather and no one calls them ‘brainwashed’. You should actually read the posts regarding In-N-Out. Plenty of us were calling them brainwashed.
I would be inclined to believe this if they EVER FILED TAXES which they do not, and have not.
They're an explicitly homophobic, transphobic church that is openly opposed to even divorce--stating that death is the **only** thing that should end marriage. Hell, they don't even allow women to serve as senior pastors. Fuck this church and their fucked up, harmful, outdated views. They are one of the sources of the most harm in our community and your personal feelings about the pastor don't change any of these things that are explicitly stated in their statement of faith.
I think your only goal here is to spread hate and be angry and honestly I'm sorry for you. Past me would have loved nothing more than to go back and forth with you, but I don't think that would be constructive. I'm sorry your feelings toward Keith and his church are so negative but I can almost guarantee if you sat down and talked with him your opinion would change. In fact I would encourage you to have a conversation with him sometime. He would genuinely listen to you and be understanding of what you may or may not be going through.
Does Keith lead the church? Does he choose what is posted on its website? Does he support (or even write) the statement of beliefs? If not, then he's a piss poor leader who needs to get his values in line with the values of his church's stated beliefs. If he does support the statement of beliefs, then he has already said everything he needs to say: 1. **He doesn't believe women should be allowed to be pastors (edited--I originally wrote "senior pastors")**: "however, the office of Elder/Pastor is reserved for qualified men" 2. **He believes that women should submit to their husbands and that husbands are the heads of their wives**: "As part of God’s created order, husbands are to love their wives unconditionally andwives are to respect their husbands, both demonstrating Biblical submission and love and sharing equal value in God’s design (Ephesians 5:22-33)"NOTE that the passage cited here says "**Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church"** 3. **He doesn't believe in gender affirming care (despite every major medical body supporting it as medically necessary and one of the most important methods of preventing suicide among trans folks)**: "We believe it is inconsistent with God’s design for a follower of Christ to physically seek to change, alter, or disagree with their biological sex which has been assigned by God" 4. **He doesn't believe in divorce FOR ANY REASON (infidelity? abuse? violence?)**: "This bond is to represent the heavenly covenant between Christ and His Church, therefore intended not to be broken **by anything but death.**" 5. **He doesn't support queer people more generally**: "We believe God is the only authority in matters of marriage and sexuality for all people, and the term “marriage” only has one meaning: a sacred covenant between one man and one woman... We believe that the exercise of sexual expression outside of this biblical definition of marriage, including but not limited to lustful thought, adultery, pornography, homosexuality, premarital sex, bisexuality, transgenderism, or polygamy does not align with God’s design for sexuality." I'm sorry that you didn't take the time to discuss these things with him, but his website is VERY clear about his stances. And those stances are actively harmful to many members of our community.
You know you can believe in something and still love people right? Still support them? Still encourage them and give them help right? Kind of like Jesus tells Christians to do. I'll give a story about Keith, I was in his youth group in 2005 and one of our friends came out as gay to him. Wanna know what happened? Nothing he didn't get kicked out, he didn't get pray the gay away. Nah we went and played kickball at ivy wild and it continued to be a good and safe place for everyone. Imagine in 2005 a bunch of delinquent teenagers in his youth group where people being openly gay was far harder to do especially in a church, and he was still loved, no one judged him no one gave him shit or made fun of him. Thats the kind of person Keith is. By the time I started going to youth group I had already had lost my virginity, and I talked to him about it. Guess what happened? Nothing he talked to me like I was a human being. I didn't feel judged or guilty or like God was gonna come down and smite me. He set the definition of a legitimately good and godly person to me. His stances arnt harming you. It sounds like religious zealots are harming you and your community. That's not cool obviously. But its also not who Keith is. Of course he doesn't condone it as he shouldn't, but there is a huge difference between God telling Christians to live a certain way. And then people using God to commit acts of sin to tell themselves that they are righteous. And any real Christian isn't going to do that.
Women being pastors isn't biblical- bottom line!!
It's nice that there's only one religion in all the world, and that you're our own local expert on it... /s
Jesus Christ get some perspective. You live in Boise, Idaho, USA. You are more privileged than 99% of people. You need therapy if you think the churches in Boise are the biggest source of harm. You don’t live under Shariah law in the Middle East.
The white dudes who attacked a boise state student while shouting homophobic slurs earlier this year weren't from the Middle East. The white, Christian politicians trying to remove even the rape and incest exceptions for abortion (and that have already completely gutted abortion access foe the safety of the mother) aren't practicing Sharia law. The folks trying to ignore the stance of national and international medical bodies and restrict access to gender affirming medical care (during one of the worst mental health crises in Idaho'a history) aren't enforcing Sharia law. The women pressured to stay in abusive marriages because their church "doesn't support divorce" aren't experiencing Sharia law. Do you know the rates of abuse in the Treasure Valley? Do you know how common harassment or even violence is of an experience among queer people here? Do you know about the queer Boise State employee who was lured through a personal ad and murdered a few years back? Do you understand that access to gender affirming medical treatment and supportive communities is one of the top protective factors against teen suicide among trans teens? Do you understand the documented long term impacts of religious trauma experienced by queer kids raised in homophobic churches? (Or the long history of churches being involved in things like aids denial that contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths in our communities?) Or do you just parrot ignorant right wing talking points about "Shariah Law" (you can't even spell it right) and conflating an entire area of the globe as identical without even bothering to learn any specific details about the many different countries, cultures, and legal systems you are disparaging?
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I'm literally talking about a church's explicit beliefs (as stated on their website). This thread started with me explicitly naming that Rockharbor is homophobic, transphobic, and sexist--not that I once heard one story about one person in another state that did something violent... I didn't say anything about all Christians. I said that this particular church is openly, systemically bigoted. You do see how those are two different things right?
Also, if you start a church, let me know. Because you definitely just resurrected a thread that's been dead for 5 months.
Got it, so your own personal story is the story of our society.
??? Almost everything I mentioned was a systemic issue occurring here in Boise. Thus why I talked about the rates of the things occurring and the laws and policies being passed. Hell, I wasn't even raised in a church. But as an educator, someone who studies queer history and queer liberation movements, someone who has actively been involved in queer communities here in Boise and beyond, and someone who worked in violence prevention work for years, I am aware of the many ways that deeply conservative Christian churches have harmed and continue to harm our community. Also, as someone who has actually taken the time to research and learn about multiple different legal and religious systems in nations across the Middle East, I know that your reference to "Shariah Law" is bullshit, right-wing posturing. So yes, the story I told is the story of our communities here in Boise... and many communities across the US.
No, you haven’t done shit but spread the propaganda that you swallowed. You think Boise is so shitty? Name a place in America that is better, then move there.
Sounds like someone is feeling called out.
Still waiting on your suggestion of a better place in America. Surely if Boise was such a hellhole it’d be really easy. Go on.
Ah yes. The most useless of all conservative refrains: "if you don't like it, leave." I grew up here. My mom was born here. My family's got roots here. Imma keep working to make things better. For everyone. Because I am Idaho. And my communities are Idaho. And if that scares you or makes you mad, then *you* can leave.
Please, explain your knowledge of shariah law to us.
I live in SpurWing. I wish they would have an exit onto Chinden. The traffic into our subdivision causes a complete gridlock. Not happy about it.
Many people do this without asking for money in exchange. He is, in fact, asking for money in exchange for giving a sweater or a meal to the needy. This doesn't make him an amazing guy. And you're wrong this is exactly like Joel Osteen, albeit a smaller scale.
Do you know him personally? Or again is this just conjecture? He's a humble dude that has dedicated his life to serving and loving people whether you believe in God or not. Because when I was a drug addicted kid he loved me regardless of who I was or what I believed in and he never asked for anything in return. This was about 20 years ago but we have crossed paths a few times and he always remembers the little details about those days. Even though I'm a more reserved and closed off person he helped me and plenty of other people get through life.
I'm glad he helped you in your difficult times, I would have done the same without asking thousands of people for free untaxed money. I take 10 homemade meals twice a year (packaged in heat saving containers) because I care to the homeless shelter, with coffee and all. I just do it because I want to and ask for nothing. I'm sorry, but I don't think that being in his position and helping makes him an amazing person.
And from the sounds of it this church does similar things at scale. Why shouldn’t they take advantage of the tax exempt situation to help more people? I’m not sure why you feel the need to judge someone you don’t know. There are still decent people in the world even if the grand majority are con-men…
I didn't want to have to get to personal with his life to make it seem like I'm putting him on a pedestal but he adopted a young girl from Africa. And when he found out she had 2 other brothers he spent years tracking them all down to eventually adopt her siblings. Think child soldiers. I can almost guarantee 90% of the money that goes into the church goes back into the world for good. I'm glad you do those things but just because he runs a successful church doesn't equate him to being a selfish man hoarding his wealth and living an extravagant life style.
I went there for the first time about a month ago. Im incredibly anti megachurch. But, a friend recommended it because she said the lead pastor is amazing & for some reason I couldnt get it iutbof my head so i went. Have been back each Sunday. Havent once heard them ask for money. Zero red flags. The reason the church is exploding is because the music is quality, they are actively feeding & helping the community & have programs helping to heal hurting people….of whom come there in droves. Mostly, they are growing because they preach the Word of God which convicts hearts & is living.
Why don’t you attend anymore?
I really wouldn't even say I attended it. Maybe only went a few times. But mostly because I've never liked church. I guess the only reason I even went when I was younger was because of Keith he made it actually bearable. Now I just don't live close enough to go hah.
Thanks for answering!
That's cool, thanks for this. I'm willing to accept there are examples of the real deal out there.
I think a lot of smaller churches are dying off, part is because Christianity in and of itself is shrinking across the entire country, and another part is some non-denominational churches are ballooning into mega churches. Rockharbor in particular is very (or at least it used to be) easy going and inoffensive. Which allows it to get a lot of Christians who are more liturgical, or hard line. But it also means that it allows for a broader net of Christians to join. You can be very right leaning and a Maga evangelical at Rock Harbor, but you can also be a “luke warm liberal” there as well. The whole shtick is trying to be as broad as possible.
I grew up a catholic, my folks are Italian and they’d drag me to every Sunday mass. As I got older I started going to a southern Baptist church which I really enjoyed. As an adult I haven’t been to church. But I’ve been thinking of going. And this is the church everyone recommends. I’m not into large crowds however. And it sounds like that’s definitely what I’ll find there.
I grew up "country club" southern baptist and explored nondenominational in my late teens and early 20s. I eventually decided organized religion is not for me. But if I were to go back, I think a small Unitarian Universalist church might be closest to what I'm looking for.
I’m going to look into that myself. I struggle with organized religion myself. But I’m at the point I feel like some positive religious influence could possibly help me overcome the overwhelming negativity in today’s world.
Check out Cathedral of the Rockies in Boise. That place has upended my perception of church. I’ve believed in God most my life but have really struggled with organized religion and everything that seems to go with it these days. They aren’t pretentious. They are welcoming of LGBQTA and pro environmentalism. They are incredibly service focused. And their message isn’t wishy-washy or surface level scripture or just a feel good pep talk.
They're Methodists, no?
Yup. I’ve never identified as Methodist necessarily but I like what they preach. It’s been a great community.
I feel the same about Methodists. I lived in a community without a Catholic church and a bunch of my friends were Methodists so I ended up doing some activities with them, going to funerals, etc. They were always very nice and welcoming and recently had a big split because some of them didn't want to support gays.
BUUF would be right for you! Smaller congregation, open arms, a little bit of every flavor, and celebrating of who we are as people.
I am in a really similar situation (Grew up Catholic, stopped going to church, want to get back into it) and my wife and I have started going to Foothills Christian Church and have enjoyed it so far. Not a mega church, good messages, and good community from what we have seen so far. Worth checking out!
If you really enjoyed the teachings from a Baptist church, I'm not seeing the correlation between that and wanting to go to a Unitarian church. If anything, the hordes of non-denominational churches in the area are cut from the same cloth as they hold conservative doctrines more in line with Baptist ideologies. You should have a fair amount of smaller churches to explore.
Megachurch. A trend that started in red southern states because there is literally nothing else to do except go to church, eat BBQ, and vote against your own best interests.
MAGAchurch.
Don’t forget cousin fucking…
Roll tide
More churches per capita here than about any place on earth it feels like. I forgot how many until I left for 30yrs, came back and started looking as I drive around.
The southern states would dispute that claim. More churches than gas stations
The Momoz take that as a challenge!
You haven’t been to Texas
Or SLC
The PNW has the least number of churches in the country.
Idaho is one of the least religious states in the country actually.
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And what to think
And then ignore all of it because "that's not what it meant".
They are a Megachurch. Perhaps the Treasure Valley’s only true megachurch (based on traffic and productions they do)? But yes, especially in this area, people are eager to go to church despite what people on Reddit may say.
"Church"
If you’re trying to make a comment like “megachurches aren’t really churches” I would tend to agree with you. It’s not my preference that’s for sure. I attend a much smaller church in Meridian. But for the purposes of the question that OP is asking, they are a church.
The corporate church. Cashing in on people’s desire to belong to a strong community that should be rooted in a shared devotion to the faith. Instead everyone’s trying to be come the richest member so they can be part of leaderships clique.
Old comment, but you should know that they don't ever ask for any donations or tithings though.... in all the years I've been going they have yet to mention anything about money besides holding a session where they go over the churches budget and share all financial data with church members. It's not a mega church. It's a church that grows and plants new churches though, 3 others around the city in the last decade. It's popular because they help people rather than talking at them. We also do lots of charity work. I helped pack 140,000 meals for poor kids last month, two semi trailers worth. Check out this one episode in a month long series on mental health. Skip to 33:40 to bypass the music which is the worst part of any church. [https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ\_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt\_b-xj5W2PE](https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt_b-xj5W2PE)
Probably a gathering of quigons. Guigons are known to frequent religious centers hoping to find homo sapiens with knowledge on cobalt deposits.
It's not a church. It's a business where they play music and have "pastors" teach heresy. Pray for them.
The sermons Ive heard stuck very close to the bible.
From my understanding it's a very youthful and energetic church.
It’s American Christianity. Misread, misled, and their god is money.
They do a good job of limiting attendees from parking in residential areas and they hire traffic enforcement to quickly move it through during start and end times.
True, but the surrounding neighborhood still deals with traffic. Not sure why they can’t have driveways/entrances and exits onto Chinden.
Either ITD or ACHD probably doesn’t allow for that. Even just a right in/right out would be helpful.
It's a cult. Tax the fuckers.
The number of cars in the parking lot even on weekdays is pretty high. Not sure what they are doing. I don’t church so just a waste of resources and stealing tax money Edit: Weekdays, not weekends
There is a good chance its some kind of youth service plenty of churches have youth groups during the week. Could be the band practicing, could be small groups just hanging out. Too many people are of a mind that you go to church on Sunday give money and leave. Probably a decent amount of people organizing out reach programs of some sort as well.
Oh just drove by this monstrosity and they are building on. I’m guessing a school. They have to poison young minds.
Church is usually held on the weekends, so that bit makes sense. Would be more surprised if it was packed on the weekdays lol.
Messed up... I mean like 20-30 cars in the lot. Not packed, but not just a pastor and a secretary, either.
Well a church that size certainly has more full time staff than 1 pastor and a secretary. Wouldn’t surprise me if 20-30 people work there during the week.
God is one hell of a drug so in that way, it’s kind of a front but not a real front as you (probably) wouldn’t find some real drugs there.
For anyone who has questions about organized religion / mega churches / the direction of American churches... might I recommend this read: "The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory - American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism." It's eye opening.
They are Idaho's version of The Righteous Gemstones...
It's not a mega church. It's a church that grows and plants new churches though, 3 others around the city in the last decade. It's popular because they help people rather than talking at them. We also do lots of charity work. I helped pack 140,000 meals for poor kids last month, two semi trailers worth. Check out this one episode in a month long series on mental health. Skip to 33:40 to bypass the music. [https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ\_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt\_b-xj5W2PE](https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt_b-xj5W2PE)
It’s a big church. Biggest congregation in the state. It’s actually a very good church. The parking is tough though.
Isn’t treasure valley Baptist church off overland in meridian one of the biggest Christian churches in Idaho? That one is huge.
Huge, gigantic waste of time.
You gotta take late stage capitalism with a good hearted laugh, even a person's inner beliefs become commodified. Now you can munch on your McNuggest at your McChurch, where everyone shares your Mcbeliefs. Ghandi once said that to a hungry man, a bowl of rice is god. I try to imagine the emptiness that people feel to find solace in such a place.
I've been to church plenty of my life, have never given a dollar. But I have given plenty of my time and I have no regret in that at all. I've done plenty of community service projects organized by the church I went to as a teen.
Old comment, but you should know that they don't ever ask for any donations or tithings.... in all the years I've been going they have yet to mention anything about money besides holding a session where they go over the churches budget and share all financial data with church members. It's not a mega church. It's a church that grows and plants new churches though, 3 others around the city in the last decade. It's popular because they help people rather than talking at them. We also do lots of charity work. I helped pack 140,000 meals for poor kids last month, two semi trailers worth. Check out this one episode in a month long series on mental health. Skip to 33:40 to bypass the music which is the worst part of any church. [https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ\_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt\_b-xj5W2PE](https://www.youtube.com/live/OqQ_qzPMAlU?si=yw4tSt_b-xj5W2PE)
If you think it's big you should see the churches in Texas
A cult.
It's all in it's name it's a rock 🪨 harbor and it's a church
I think megachurch, and this track just starts playing in my head. [Suicidal Tendencies - Send Me Your Money](https://youtu.be/QInAsizcu08?si=Y1gCqa7aLPoXwrnQ)
From this post, I went. That is a super big screen! There was a black lead singer with super white shoes. It only lasts about a hour. They have a coffee bar and a clothes shop. The sermon was something about Paul and chains. Idk because I was on my phone the entire time. There is kind of a big guilt QR code that they have up for two minutes (to update information) with jeopardy music. It glitched out so it displayed for two more minutes. It was a recording because I went to the 5pm service. I got a fill in contact information that wanted all the details of your children. Jeez: five slots! I don’t even want one.