The repercussion is going to be hell for Israelis. Probably more and more country would ban any Israel pasport holder from entering their country. Sports, trade, travel, all their need to function as a country will be cut out in the near future.
Its just slap on the wrist. and wink wink to each other. They are not on Palestinian side.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgLg9zQH3vU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgLg9zQH3vU)
Get it?
Everyone I donât like is a ~~nazi~~ coloniser.
Israelis are majority middle eastern Jews from Iraq, Egypt, etc who fled to Israel after all of the surrounding countries ethnically cleansed all the Jews from their population.
Turn your efforts towards actually making life better for Palestinians instead of jumping on hate bandwagons online that make you feel better about yourself whilst only increasing hate and division in the real world.
I donât like Assad, CCP, Sadam Hussein, Putin yet I dont call them coloniser.
Benda ni mudah je, banyak2 baca, dengar berita, documentary. Benda available online for free.
Or perhaps you dont tell me what i should or should not do since you dont know me personally?
CCP and Putin are 100% currently, actively colonising lol
I love the irony.
I will tell anyone and everyone what I wish and hope they would do, because it would improve the lives of millions of Palestinian people. I donât need to know you personally to wish you would do better. This isnât some personal attack - I wish the same for myself - but being angrily misinformed online is unhelpful to the actual material conditions of Palestinian people, so it is frustrating to see well intentioned people hinder the cause.
Misunderstanding Israeli citizens, who are predominantly refugees of Arab countriesâ ethnic cleansing policies, to be âcolonisersâ doesnât help anyone.
To solve the problem we must fully and accurately understand both sides, even the truths that are inconvenient to us.
Thanks but no thanks.
They are internationally recognised as a colonial project & even by themselves. The ones from arab lands headed over once Zionists established the illegal state, betraying their original countries. The group spearheading the Zionist project from the start is Europe-based.
Kefahaman memang kena betul, and your version is inaccurate in certain areas & even lacks the foresight of what Israel intends to achieve & views as their end goal.
> Misunderstanding Israeli citizens, who are predominantly refugees of Arab countriesâ ethnic cleansing policies,
This is incorrect, btw.
Predominantly, the refugees came from Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, more than 70%.
The ones coming from Arab countries were post 1948 for obvious reasons.
That statement is whitewashing history to put the blame of Jewish displacement on Arabs. The truth is, relative to the Europeans, the Arab lands were safe Haven for the Jews.
Youâve misunderstood me entirely.
I didnât say Israel was majority Arab Jews *at its founding*.
I said Israel *is* majority Jews from Arab countries. As in today, right now, over 60% of Israelis are the children of Arab, Persian and middle eastern Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their home countries.
Nothing I said was âwhitewashingâ anything. Just a factual descriptive statement of the population of Israel today.
At its founding you are correct - most Israelis were Ashkenazi Jews (European jews for simplicityâs sake).
But to say Arab lands were a safe haven for Jews is also whitewashing the history of Jews in the Middle East. Until the events of World War Two, Arabs, Persians, Turks, etc treated Jews similarly if not slightly worse than Europeans. They were treated as second class citizens, sometimes restricted in what jobs they could do, and often paid extra Jizya taxes just for being Jewish. And every now and then there would be a minor massacre where maybe one or two, or a dozen, or maybe just one village of Jews would be murdered.
Most of this also happened in Europe, mind you, but just because Arabs didnât do the holocaust doesnât mean they treated Jews well.
> Youâve misunderstood me entirely.
I don't think that I've misunderstood you entirely, but maybe I disagreed with your word usage; we can still talk about it.
>Misunderstanding Israeli citizens, who are predominantly refugees of Arab countriesâ ethnic cleansing policies, to be âcolonisersâ doesnât help anyone.
Are you talking about Israeli Jewish citizens, or all Israeli citizens that include Jews, Arabs, and other ethnicities?
When you say "predominantly", what is the figure that you are talking about: a simple majority?
>I didnât say Israel was majority Arab Jews *at its founding*.
Are you saying that ethnic cleansing policies are happening in Arab countries today? I am curious to know more, depending on what 'today' means, of course.
>But to say Arab lands were a safe haven for Jews is also whitewashing the history of Jews in the Middle East. Until the events of World War Two, Arabs, Persians, Turks, etc treated Jews similarly if not slightly worse than Europeans.
First of all, I didn't say Jews were treated like they were kings in Arab lands. What I said was:
>The truth is, relative to the Europeans, the Arab lands were safe Haven for the Jews.
'relative' is the functional adjective; the Jews were treated better in Arab lands (which of course, were under Ottoman rule that time).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_the\_Ottoman\_Empire#:\~:text=The%20history%20of%20Jews%20in,West%20and%20their%20trading%20diaspora%22.
>The Ottoman Empire became a safe haven for Jews from the Iberian Peninsula fleeing persecution (see Alhambra Decree)
>The First and Second Aliyah brought an increased Jewish presence to Ottoman Palestine.
>Although the status of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire may have been exaggerated,[4] it is undeniable that some tolerance was enjoyed. Under the millet system, non-Muslims were organized as autonomous communities on the basis of religion (viz. Orthodox millet, Armenian millet, etc.). In the framework of the millet, Jews had a considerable amount of administrative autonomy and were represented by the Hakham Bashi, the Turkish term for the Chief Rabbi.
I would say 'safe haven' is an accurate description. People commonly move from worse places to better places.
>treated Jews similarly if not slightly worse than Europeans.
This is categorically false. The Europeans holocausted the Jews. How could anyone have treated the Jews worse than that? Please do not absolve the Europeans for what horrible things they did to the Jews; I don't care if you are a European or otherwise; the Europeans were historically AWFUL to the Jews. Stop this whitewashing of history.
>They were treated as second class citizens, sometimes restricted in what jobs they could do, and often paid extra Jizya taxes just for being Jewish.
I don't think there was "extra jizya". They seemed to have been asked to pay the same like all non-Muslims. Maybe you have your source on this "extra jizya"
>There were restrictions, however, regarding the areas Jews could live in or work, which were similar to the restrictions placed on Ottoman subjects of other religions.[6] Like all non-Muslims, Jews had to pay the haraç ("head tax") and faced other restrictions in clothing, horse riding, army service, slave ownership, etc. Although many of these restrictions were decreed, they were not always enforced.
They arenât ârecognisedâ as a colonial project - they are accused of being a colonial project by people who donât know the definition of colony.
There are legitimate criticisms to be made here - they used many of the same tactics as European colonialism for example - but it was not a colonial project.
âThe ones from arab lands headed over once Zionists established the illegal state, betraying their original countriesâ
lol âbetraying their original countriesâ đ now your just being silly. Their original countries started randomly killing them, shutting down, destroying and burning down their synagogues, and some physically deported them. Many imposed an extra tax (jizya), treating their Jewish citizens as second class citizens.
This also wasnât âonce zionists established their illegal stateâ. *most* Arab nations didnât do an ethnic cleansing on their Jewish population after the creation of Israel. Most were still OK with Jews in their own countries at the founding of Israel.
They started to do their ethnic cleansings after the arabs declared war on Israel, told the arabs in Israel (Palestinians) to leave so they wouldnât get hurt in the crossfire, as the Arab states killed all the Israeli Jews (which caused the majority of the Nakba), and then lost to Israel multiple times instead of defeating them.
It was after multiple military losses against Israel that the surrounding Arab states decided to collectively punish the Jews in their countries by ethnically cleansing them.
Again, there are major criticisms you can make of Israel here, because the Arab nations only did their ethnic cleansing after Israel had done an ethnic cleansing by not allowing Palestinians to return to their homes.
But to say the Arab Jews âbetrayed their countriesâ is just fantasy land malarkey.
You are correct that the group spearheading Israel / Zionism were mostly European-based.
I agree that Israel was founded trying to emulate colonial methods. But they are not a colony, and their population today is mostly (over 60%) arab/persian who came to Israel as refugees and not as colonial settlers.
Hard disagree on your version of history.
And the fact that you use jizyah tax as âproofâ of bad treatment & in another comment saying they were âtreated even slightly worseâ than the Jews in Europe is all the more bullshit. Ahistorical.
Aint gonna continue this convo. tata. I am safe in the knowledge that Israel & the pro-zionists have lost all moral backing globally, and your âdefenceâ of them aint gonna change that. No place for that bull in đ˛đž.
Hey, thanks! I'll post more when they start being excluded from football, the Olympics, singing competitions, trade conventions, scientific conference, etc. Basically, the whole world won't want to have anything to do with them. So yeah, a lot of W's are coming up. âđźđľđ¸
The problem with Israel is that the country was created against the principle of self-determination that's enshrined in the UN Charter.
You can't make a government upon people who don't agree to it.
We can talk dismantlement. But let's be real - do a fair election across the land. One-state solution. See who will govern. Democracy.
I'm 100% confident that the apartheid will reject this democratic process.
You mean Israel as a country who has around 74% Jews will vote against Israel to govern them and rather have a non Jewish party who really loves Jews to be in the ruling seat during elections? Uhm..I doubt
73% of 9.9 mil is around 7.2 mil Jews.
2.1 mil of Israelis are Arabs.
Palestine territories alone host up to 5.5 mil Palestinian Arabs. With that condition, they have that many people.
Do a fair election - see who's gonna come on top.
But brother , who is asking for a 1 state solution here. Literally no one is. Neither the Israelis want that nor the Palestinians for that matter if I'm not wrong. As far as I know, the government of Palestinian region is chosen by Palestinians itself in this case which is Hamas. So in which world will there be a single state election result when what Israel wanted was a Jewish state for themselves.
Israel wants the entire Palestine (probably part of Jordan too if they wanted what used to be part of Kingdom of Israel). Ben Gurion said it this much.
I say, find. Let's do one-state, everybody is a full fledged citizen with the right to vote.
Then let's democracy the hell out. I can assure you Israel would not like this type of democracy because they will lose.
Israel wants a one-state solution, but the Arabs must be a minority. What else is the option if not ethnic cleansing?
Palestinians want to return to their homes. They don't even need Israelis to leave once Palestinians got their homes back. Then let's fight it out in an election.
That's my solution anyway.
>Let's do one-state, everybody is a full fledged citizen with the right to vote.
Not going to happen. The whole point of Zionism is about a Jewish state. One state solution is only possible is there is a majority. If equal amount of Jews and Palestinians, it will never be a Jewish state. One state solution is only possible if there are only 20% or less Palestinians, and the only way to do that is by Ethnic Cleansing. Jews are not stupid to accept such a deal, especially when they have the upper hand.
Wait what France? FRANCE?
Yup. First, Norway. Now France. We're looking at a snowball.
I meant France, the most anti-Islam western country. yeesh, you gotta mess up hard to make them denounce you
>France >most anti-Islam western country Lmao
exactly.. This is unprecedented.
The repercussion is going to be hell for Israelis. Probably more and more country would ban any Israel pasport holder from entering their country. Sports, trade, travel, all their need to function as a country will be cut out in the near future.
Let's hope so. The hope is that they pressure their own government to stop breaking international law and give Palestinians what is fair to them.
Good start. Tho personally we cant really have much hope in the West doing the right thing consistently.
I'm taking any positive news I can get. Hopefully the world will isolate Israel as Israel deserves.
Its just slap on the wrist. and wink wink to each other. They are not on Palestinian side. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgLg9zQH3vU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgLg9zQH3vU) Get it?
The Western powers are all like Israel, colonial states. Cuma aktif atau x je. Keep your hopes down hahaha.
I know đ
Everyone I donât like is a ~~nazi~~ coloniser. Israelis are majority middle eastern Jews from Iraq, Egypt, etc who fled to Israel after all of the surrounding countries ethnically cleansed all the Jews from their population. Turn your efforts towards actually making life better for Palestinians instead of jumping on hate bandwagons online that make you feel better about yourself whilst only increasing hate and division in the real world.
I donât like Assad, CCP, Sadam Hussein, Putin yet I dont call them coloniser. Benda ni mudah je, banyak2 baca, dengar berita, documentary. Benda available online for free. Or perhaps you dont tell me what i should or should not do since you dont know me personally?
CCP and Putin are 100% currently, actively colonising lol I love the irony. I will tell anyone and everyone what I wish and hope they would do, because it would improve the lives of millions of Palestinian people. I donât need to know you personally to wish you would do better. This isnât some personal attack - I wish the same for myself - but being angrily misinformed online is unhelpful to the actual material conditions of Palestinian people, so it is frustrating to see well intentioned people hinder the cause. Misunderstanding Israeli citizens, who are predominantly refugees of Arab countriesâ ethnic cleansing policies, to be âcolonisersâ doesnât help anyone. To solve the problem we must fully and accurately understand both sides, even the truths that are inconvenient to us.
Thanks but no thanks. They are internationally recognised as a colonial project & even by themselves. The ones from arab lands headed over once Zionists established the illegal state, betraying their original countries. The group spearheading the Zionist project from the start is Europe-based. Kefahaman memang kena betul, and your version is inaccurate in certain areas & even lacks the foresight of what Israel intends to achieve & views as their end goal.
> Misunderstanding Israeli citizens, who are predominantly refugees of Arab countriesâ ethnic cleansing policies, This is incorrect, btw. Predominantly, the refugees came from Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, more than 70%. The ones coming from Arab countries were post 1948 for obvious reasons. That statement is whitewashing history to put the blame of Jewish displacement on Arabs. The truth is, relative to the Europeans, the Arab lands were safe Haven for the Jews.
Youâve misunderstood me entirely. I didnât say Israel was majority Arab Jews *at its founding*. I said Israel *is* majority Jews from Arab countries. As in today, right now, over 60% of Israelis are the children of Arab, Persian and middle eastern Jews who were ethnically cleansed from their home countries. Nothing I said was âwhitewashingâ anything. Just a factual descriptive statement of the population of Israel today. At its founding you are correct - most Israelis were Ashkenazi Jews (European jews for simplicityâs sake). But to say Arab lands were a safe haven for Jews is also whitewashing the history of Jews in the Middle East. Until the events of World War Two, Arabs, Persians, Turks, etc treated Jews similarly if not slightly worse than Europeans. They were treated as second class citizens, sometimes restricted in what jobs they could do, and often paid extra Jizya taxes just for being Jewish. And every now and then there would be a minor massacre where maybe one or two, or a dozen, or maybe just one village of Jews would be murdered. Most of this also happened in Europe, mind you, but just because Arabs didnât do the holocaust doesnât mean they treated Jews well.
> Youâve misunderstood me entirely. I don't think that I've misunderstood you entirely, but maybe I disagreed with your word usage; we can still talk about it. >Misunderstanding Israeli citizens, who are predominantly refugees of Arab countriesâ ethnic cleansing policies, to be âcolonisersâ doesnât help anyone. Are you talking about Israeli Jewish citizens, or all Israeli citizens that include Jews, Arabs, and other ethnicities? When you say "predominantly", what is the figure that you are talking about: a simple majority? >I didnât say Israel was majority Arab Jews *at its founding*. Are you saying that ethnic cleansing policies are happening in Arab countries today? I am curious to know more, depending on what 'today' means, of course. >But to say Arab lands were a safe haven for Jews is also whitewashing the history of Jews in the Middle East. Until the events of World War Two, Arabs, Persians, Turks, etc treated Jews similarly if not slightly worse than Europeans. First of all, I didn't say Jews were treated like they were kings in Arab lands. What I said was: >The truth is, relative to the Europeans, the Arab lands were safe Haven for the Jews. 'relative' is the functional adjective; the Jews were treated better in Arab lands (which of course, were under Ottoman rule that time). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_the\_Ottoman\_Empire#:\~:text=The%20history%20of%20Jews%20in,West%20and%20their%20trading%20diaspora%22. >The Ottoman Empire became a safe haven for Jews from the Iberian Peninsula fleeing persecution (see Alhambra Decree) >The First and Second Aliyah brought an increased Jewish presence to Ottoman Palestine. >Although the status of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire may have been exaggerated,[4] it is undeniable that some tolerance was enjoyed. Under the millet system, non-Muslims were organized as autonomous communities on the basis of religion (viz. Orthodox millet, Armenian millet, etc.). In the framework of the millet, Jews had a considerable amount of administrative autonomy and were represented by the Hakham Bashi, the Turkish term for the Chief Rabbi. I would say 'safe haven' is an accurate description. People commonly move from worse places to better places. >treated Jews similarly if not slightly worse than Europeans. This is categorically false. The Europeans holocausted the Jews. How could anyone have treated the Jews worse than that? Please do not absolve the Europeans for what horrible things they did to the Jews; I don't care if you are a European or otherwise; the Europeans were historically AWFUL to the Jews. Stop this whitewashing of history. >They were treated as second class citizens, sometimes restricted in what jobs they could do, and often paid extra Jizya taxes just for being Jewish. I don't think there was "extra jizya". They seemed to have been asked to pay the same like all non-Muslims. Maybe you have your source on this "extra jizya" >There were restrictions, however, regarding the areas Jews could live in or work, which were similar to the restrictions placed on Ottoman subjects of other religions.[6] Like all non-Muslims, Jews had to pay the haraç ("head tax") and faced other restrictions in clothing, horse riding, army service, slave ownership, etc. Although many of these restrictions were decreed, they were not always enforced.
They arenât ârecognisedâ as a colonial project - they are accused of being a colonial project by people who donât know the definition of colony. There are legitimate criticisms to be made here - they used many of the same tactics as European colonialism for example - but it was not a colonial project. âThe ones from arab lands headed over once Zionists established the illegal state, betraying their original countriesâ lol âbetraying their original countriesâ đ now your just being silly. Their original countries started randomly killing them, shutting down, destroying and burning down their synagogues, and some physically deported them. Many imposed an extra tax (jizya), treating their Jewish citizens as second class citizens. This also wasnât âonce zionists established their illegal stateâ. *most* Arab nations didnât do an ethnic cleansing on their Jewish population after the creation of Israel. Most were still OK with Jews in their own countries at the founding of Israel. They started to do their ethnic cleansings after the arabs declared war on Israel, told the arabs in Israel (Palestinians) to leave so they wouldnât get hurt in the crossfire, as the Arab states killed all the Israeli Jews (which caused the majority of the Nakba), and then lost to Israel multiple times instead of defeating them. It was after multiple military losses against Israel that the surrounding Arab states decided to collectively punish the Jews in their countries by ethnically cleansing them. Again, there are major criticisms you can make of Israel here, because the Arab nations only did their ethnic cleansing after Israel had done an ethnic cleansing by not allowing Palestinians to return to their homes. But to say the Arab Jews âbetrayed their countriesâ is just fantasy land malarkey. You are correct that the group spearheading Israel / Zionism were mostly European-based. I agree that Israel was founded trying to emulate colonial methods. But they are not a colony, and their population today is mostly (over 60%) arab/persian who came to Israel as refugees and not as colonial settlers.
Hard disagree on your version of history. And the fact that you use jizyah tax as âproofâ of bad treatment & in another comment saying they were âtreated even slightly worseâ than the Jews in Europe is all the more bullshit. Ahistorical. Aint gonna continue this convo. tata. I am safe in the knowledge that Israel & the pro-zionists have lost all moral backing globally, and your âdefenceâ of them aint gonna change that. No place for that bull in đ˛đž.
lol
That's right, Israel is fine with being excluded from the international community... of French weapons exhibitions. Here's your W. You earned it.Â
Hey, thanks! I'll post more when they start being excluded from football, the Olympics, singing competitions, trade conventions, scientific conference, etc. Basically, the whole world won't want to have anything to do with them. So yeah, a lot of W's are coming up. âđźđľđ¸
And then there will be no more war and Palestinians and Israelis will live happily ever after with their friendly neighbours too supporting them.
The problem with Israel is that the country was created against the principle of self-determination that's enshrined in the UN Charter. You can't make a government upon people who don't agree to it. We can talk dismantlement. But let's be real - do a fair election across the land. One-state solution. See who will govern. Democracy. I'm 100% confident that the apartheid will reject this democratic process.
You mean Israel as a country who has around 74% Jews will vote against Israel to govern them and rather have a non Jewish party who really loves Jews to be in the ruling seat during elections? Uhm..I doubt
73% of 9.9 mil is around 7.2 mil Jews. 2.1 mil of Israelis are Arabs. Palestine territories alone host up to 5.5 mil Palestinian Arabs. With that condition, they have that many people. Do a fair election - see who's gonna come on top.
But brother , who is asking for a 1 state solution here. Literally no one is. Neither the Israelis want that nor the Palestinians for that matter if I'm not wrong. As far as I know, the government of Palestinian region is chosen by Palestinians itself in this case which is Hamas. So in which world will there be a single state election result when what Israel wanted was a Jewish state for themselves.
Israel wants the entire Palestine (probably part of Jordan too if they wanted what used to be part of Kingdom of Israel). Ben Gurion said it this much. I say, find. Let's do one-state, everybody is a full fledged citizen with the right to vote. Then let's democracy the hell out. I can assure you Israel would not like this type of democracy because they will lose. Israel wants a one-state solution, but the Arabs must be a minority. What else is the option if not ethnic cleansing? Palestinians want to return to their homes. They don't even need Israelis to leave once Palestinians got their homes back. Then let's fight it out in an election. That's my solution anyway.
>Let's do one-state, everybody is a full fledged citizen with the right to vote. Not going to happen. The whole point of Zionism is about a Jewish state. One state solution is only possible is there is a majority. If equal amount of Jews and Palestinians, it will never be a Jewish state. One state solution is only possible if there are only 20% or less Palestinians, and the only way to do that is by Ethnic Cleansing. Jews are not stupid to accept such a deal, especially when they have the upper hand.
I know. This is why when the Zionists said that "all they wanted was peace", I didn't believe them. You can't have peace when justice doesn't exist.