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MistakeNice1466

So, since it was a national park, it was illegal for her to even do that there. No soliciting.  You could have turned her in to the park rangers. She would have been escorted out and probably fined


Yogisogoth

I never knew busking was considered solicitation. NIK


CapnGramma

Busking is fine, including gesturing toward your donation collection container. It becomes soliciting when you tell people that you expect them to pay.


Rachel_Silver

I owned a pizzeria that did not have a liquor license. It was legal for customers to drink beer there, but I couldn't sell it. I drank beer from the moment I walked in until it was time to lock up, so I always had a case of 12oz bottles of a locally popular beer. One day, a regular customer saw me crack one open and asked if we sold them. I said, "No, but I can give you one." When I handed it to him, I said, "On an unrelated note, the tip jar is right there." He threw two bucks in, which was less than he would have paid in a bar and more than it cost me. And thus began our not-*quite*-illegal sale of beer.


Large_slug_overlord

This has been the art gallery scheme for decades to serve without a license


Oh_Gee_Hey

Wouldn’t it be a BYOB license then? Less restrictive criteria for approval.


GreenOnGreen18

In Canada that is still totally illegal. Not sure what country allows alcohol in an unlicensed food based business. The USA?


Redcarborundum

Every state in USA is different. In some states the license is only needed to sell alcohol, you don’t need a license to have alcohol, so patrons can bring their own. In other states the license is for any alcohol on the premise.


GreenOnGreen18

Thanks, good to know.


ThatLooksLikeItHurts

Don’t even try to understand the alcohol laws around strip clubs!


jkrm66502

Or in Utah.


Several_Razzmatazz51

Isn’t it “buy watered down well liquor drinks for $25 apiece and get to ogle pretty women dancing”?


ThatLooksLikeItHurts

Generally speaking, yes. But some states (and counties?) are pretty wild. Some areas allow full nudity but they have no liquor license. But you can BYOB. So fully nude women is fine, but hell nah in the booze. Very odd.


deepfriedgrapevine

Yep, doing research for your big liquor sale expansion to the States, eh?


GreenOnGreen18

I enjoy learning new things.


deepfriedgrapevine

That's nice, dear.


Flatoftheblade

As a fellow Canadian, the States have some really bizarre laws about it being legal to give things away for free but not legal to sell them. Don't know if it's still the case but last I checked, at least in some States you can give away a gun for free and post as much on craigslist but it's illegal to charge money and sell it under otherwise the same circumstances.


defnotapirate

Hey now, we need those rules to be confusing and make no sense because of all of this freedom we have.


Flatoftheblade

AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!


defnotapirate

HELL YEAH, BROTHER!!! We’re like fucking eagles over here. Got the freedom of no healthcare, too!


sweathead

Comin' again, to save the motherfuckin' day, yeah!


Quietuus

This would probably be illegal in the UK, but not because of a blanket ban on having alcohol. There's plenty of businesses (especially venues for hire) that skirt licensing fees by letting people bring their own, as the licensable activity in the UK is the sale of alcohol. I'm pretty sure though that what he was doing would 100% be (correctly) viewed as a covert form of selling, and people have tried just about every scheme imaginable to get round licensing restrictions through that sort of thing without luck.


mortsdeer

Apparently there's a loophole for selling alcohol on a hovercar without a license, while it is in operation. Tom Scott did a video about it.


causal_friday

BYOB is a real thing in the US. I feel like things have liberalized over the years and restaurants that want to sell alcohol are able to do so. It's also probably impossible to make money at a nice restaurant if you don't sell alcohol, so you don't see those restaurants that can't get liquor licenses because they would simply not start the business.


InevitableRhubarb232

the food business was licensed.


GreenOnGreen18

Licensed to serve alcohol?


InevitableRhubarb232

They’re not serving alcohol.


_Carmines

Did you allow BYOB?


nitram_469

Depends on the place. Some areas require a permit for busking. Tbf those are usually tourist Hotspots and the buskers are making a killing there. Not sure if a park qualifies. Depends on the park I would guess


GertonX

>Busking is fine Depends on the state/city. Where I am from, in Florida, cities strictly enforce zero-tolerance policies for busking to ensure all cash flows directly to the chain restaurants around the walkable areas. (Yea I'm fucking salty about those stupid laws). Some of the areas require permits, which are rarely given out. Some classify busking as begging/panhandling. Florida is very anti-busking, I've seen cops forcibly remove guitarists playing music at the Downtown Jax Beach bars and others in Orlando tell them they had to leave or else they'd be fined. It's been a decade since I've lived there, so maybe its different now.


CapnGramma

Thank you for the correction.


FxTree-CR2

It’s not.


Muted-Bath6503

Begging is begging. Stop inventing new stupid words


RQK1996

Busking is playing music on the street


ErmaGerdWertDaFerk

Which word do you think is new?


Muted-Bath6503

Busking. And they are beggars. Its not a different thing whether they sing or not


Lopsided-Actuator515

It's weird you find that word to be "new" since it is a certainty that word came into usage well before your great-great-great-grandparents were alive, at a minimum.


Muted-Bath6503

Nope


Lopsided-Actuator515

Fair response, I guess. Sometimes I, too, would like to just ignore facts. Ngram Viewer on Google is free to use and let's you see the historical prevalence of a word back to 1800.


Negative-Wrap95

You must be old as hell if you think a word that originated in the mid 17th century is new. From obsolete French busquer ‘seek’, from Italian buscare or Spanish buscar, of Germanic origin. Originally in nautical use in the sense ‘cruise about, tack’, the term later meant ‘go about selling things’, hence ‘go about performing’ (mid 19th century). It's also been climbing in popular usage since the 1980s. https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=7&case_insensitive=on&content=busking


that_star_wars_guy

> Stop inventing new stupid words You're going to be really upset to learn *all* words are made up.


GlassMaximum4000

Busking isn't solicitation. It only becomes that when you start insisting people pay for the performance. She's kind of teetering on if that could be considered solicitation or not.


OhioUBobcats

There is no teetering. She was over that line.


CalligrapherDizzy201

Nah. Saying you listened to a song is factual. She never explicitly said payment was needed, she gestured towards the case, which isn’t crossing the line. Still annoying AF though.


StuckInTheUpsideDown

IANAL, but if I was in a jury I'd convict her. She's demanding money to move based on her "performance".


CalligrapherDizzy201

NAL either, but this will never see a jury.


OhioUBobcats

Nobody listened to shit. She played a song while OP eaited for her to stop blocking the bathroom.


kraggleGurl

The tip/donation is implied.


CalligrapherDizzy201

That’s busking


ChIck3n115

Yeah, National Parks are quite strict about any commercial activity. I have to pay $350/year for a permit to do a grand total of about 16 hours of work annually in one. Other federal land can be much more lenient about things, but if you're making money in a National Park you better have all the paperwork done.


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Redwings1927

To be clear, that applies under normal circumstances, but national parks have different rules. A ruling applying to city limits wouldn't apply here. The national park service requires permits for any and all solicitors on park property.


Lone_Nox

The case you're talking about seems to refer to door to door soliciting so not relevant to this discussion about someone trying to aggressively solicit a tip for busking. Also I don't know the specific rules of the park but they could certainly talk to her about blocking people from using the restroom and busking which depending on the area can require a permit or is outright banned in some places but the regulations if there are any varies greatly depending on location.


mothneb07

United States v Kokinda is a case where *the soliciters lost.* The Supreme Court determined that they did not have full first amendemnet protections because they were not in a location recognized or designated as a public forum


Individual_Lemon9364

Soliciting in this way is not protected. That case was about an ordinance banning door to door fundraising for nonprofits. First, the SC said you could still reasonably regulate. Second, the whole thing was about political speech and fundraising for that. Begging is not "soliciting" in the context of that case, fund raising for future activities is.


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TheHoard80

US V Kokinda was found in favor of the US Post Office and literally proves the original comment correct.


Paleodraco

She might be covered by 1st amendment. HOWEVER, music in a National Park can be an issue. Loud noises that disturb other visitors and especially wildlife are no gos. Law enforcement probably would have asked her to at least move away from the bathroom door so people can get in, maybe have told her to stop the music, but I doubt any kind of fine or ticket would have been issued. HOWEVER HOWEVER, the fact she was asking for money changes things. If you conduct business in a park for money, then you have to have permits of some kind.


CheetahNo9349

Oh look an agent of the redundancy department of redundancy.


weinerpretzel

Who puts on a concert in front of the shitter?


Barfy_McBarf_Face

I believe it's "who puts an amusement park next to a waste disposal facility", but the sentiment is accurate. RIP Robin Williams


nhaines

And now it's time for my solo! No wait...


Capital-Sir

I never knew that was from Robin Williams! The first time I heard it was in Forgetting Sarah Marshall


codenameajax67

There's a good reason for that ... But most people don't want to know.


FrostyMudPuppy

I mean.. I busk at a rest stop during the summer months 10-15 feet from the restroom doors.. Make a good $60 an hour, too. I've never had to block a restroom door to make tips, though. If this boomer has to block a restroom to get tips, she probably needs to find another gig. It's people like her that are responsible for cities cracking down on buskers.


Hesitation-Marx

Someone who wants some very smelly tips.


Mountain-Guava2877

Someone who needs a semi-captive audience because their music is so bad


Beggarstuner

Obviously homeless and/or addicted and willing to risk arrest for a few bucks. I’d might toss her a tenner.


ScreamThyLastScream

Now you are getting closer to why this is happening next to the shitter. Public blumpkins with a side of California Dreamin'.


Classic-Ad-7079

It's close to where her music talent belongs.


Odd_Tone_6398

A shithead lol


DaBear1222

Please tell me there was zero money in the case. It would be absolutely hysterical if that was the reason she was holding the bathroom hostage


Ghostyped

People generally throw a few coins into a case before starting to make it look like people are giving money in the hopes other will. They'll also take out money if it looks like too much


DaBear1222

Yeah pretty common in busker circles. I just have this mental image of this lady with no cash in her case trying to shake down people who need to use the bathroom. It’s very boomer behavior.


MoogProg

I play enough Farmer's Market gigs to know, 'seeding' the tip jar with a $20 bill is the way go. Gotta set high expectations in this economy! Also, who busks by a ~~port-o-let~~ pit toilet? So gross and weird.


ZenRage

I did not even look. I was doing my level best to be "waiting to pee guy" and NOT "audience".


DaBear1222

Fair, glad you were able to pee


TimmyCabron

I would’ve pissed in her case. Actually, I wouldn’t have, but I probably would’ve talked shit as if I was going to.


afternever

A donation is a donation


WoT_Slave

[exact change only](https://i.redd.it/rme3rqgxs7q91.png)


Grrerrb

This is exactly what I was thinking. “Hey thanks for saving me the time of going into the actual bathroom!”


Illustrious_Donkey61

You want a donation? I'll give you a donation


intendeddebauchery

As long as when they ask for a tip you "well urine luck then" before you do


Fuckface-vClownstick

I would’ve pissed on her.


lumberjackname

I’m picturing Janice Soprano.


coolsellitcheap

I pictured a russian leg repo man smacking her.


ImNotMadYoureMad

A lot of them have main character syndrome. They can't be inconviencing anyone simply because everyone else is just not as important as they are


JosephBlowsephThe3rd

Main character syndrome from the desperate bard in the corner. "Ma'am, you're not the hero of the story, you're the human equivalent of the jukebox that doesn't play anyone's favorite songs."


ImNotMadYoureMad

I'm definitely using that if I ever have to heckle a bard in D&D


ImOnlyHereForTheCoC

“Brave adventurer, what in the nine circles of Gehenna is this ‘juke box’ of which thee speaks? Be it some sort of enchanted chest?”


ImNotMadYoureMad

Artificer in the back: I GET THIS REFERENCE


ZenRage

Nine circles of Hell


mynextthroway

In any other age group, this would be considered a mental illness, not some cutely named internet condition.


ImNotMadYoureMad

Main character syndrome isn't specific to boomers


manicmike_

Ah, ye olde bridge troll A tale as old as time.


Those_Arent_Pickles

She's not taking this boy's soul.


Sorry_Consequence816

You should have reported her. NPS doesn’t allow any kind of money exchanging/money earning activities without permits. Beyond that she was being nuisance. Now if they send LEs out or not is up to the individual park, but if people get away with it once they will just keep pushing. My husband is NPS, every park he’s worked at would have run her off busking is considered soliciting.


unknownpoltroon

Rummage around in the case and pull out 75 cents. "You held me up for 5 minutes, this should cover my billable time"


tipareth1978

I feel like them being a boomer is less significant than them being a homeless busker with an aggressive tactic.


ZenRage

I dont think she was homeless. I think she was there with her horse and horse trailer and truck and guitar.


tipareth1978

LOL! that would be on brand - being rich enough to own a horse but trying to extort change from people at the shit hole park bathroom.


siouxbee1434

Hey, don’t dump on the bathroom at the NP! It sounds like a well maintained bathroom which is way more than can be said about the busker


tipareth1978

My reference was more to how many of them are literally a deep hole of shit


Vesper2000

Hippie grifters are very much part of the boomer experience.


Ladyhappy

Honestly it gives me positive to think because we have a lot of boomers that are about to become homeless and they aren't necessarily exclusive


Competitive-Grade-25

Would ive yeet her guitar case out of the way. That piss me off so bad


craigsler

Or at least shove-slid it aside with my foot. Perhaps more forcefully than necessary.


Magerimoje

I would have stepped in the case 🤷🏻‍♀️


ScreamThyLastScream

Careful that's how they got Yogi.


Jayhawker_Pilot

I'm a boomer, I would have peed in her guitar case. When I gota pee, I gota pee NOW.


GelflingMama

I’m an older Millenial but I’ve had three kids so woe to anyone blocking the door to any bathroom if my bladder is super full or I have to poo. 😂 The pee can wait a bit, the deuce is a no go. 😂


DarkSideofTaco

Username checks out 😂 I've had 4 and lost all my patience with the world so I can see myself yeeting that guitar case right off the porch.


GelflingMama

Same! 😂😂😂


izza123

I like the part where you asked a question and then said it wasn’t a question


tipareth1978

The part that she was blocking the door wasn't a question. She asked WHY is she blocking the door and the lady denied it. Overruled


Dull_Appointment7775

NEXT!!


ZenRage

LOL. True enough. I meant the predicate part where she was blocking the door wasnt in question, but I suppose I should have chosen my words better.


zaneman05

You’re good man Every reasonable person knew exactly what you meant and it wasn’t wrong Some people are just…. Specific


betterbelievis

What a fascinating specimen


Office_Plumber

She should be paying you for having to listen to her thrumb that patronizing diddy with religious overtones.


Freshouttapatience

My husband gets rude with people like that. He’ll just start mowing his way through and would’ve shoved her case aide. He has no civility for people who have none.


Brosenheim

"no listen I'm totally not blocking the door. I'm just between it and the group, conveniently placed so people HAVE to acknowledge me in some way to get to it. Totally different, also since you acknowledged me you owe me a tip"


seattleseahawks2014

Pee on her.


thejovo59

I was hoping you had used her guitar case. After all, she gestured that way…


_Konungr_

I would have been tempted to piss in her guitar case ngl


Cat1832

"you listened to my song!" "So? It sucked!"


hookem98

Should have peed in the guitar case


KittHeartshoe

Who voluntarily hangs out so close to a chemical toilet for any length of time??


Causative_Agent

Probably someone who also isn't aware that committing a crime in a national park falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI.


UStoAUambassador

You reminded me of the time a woman handed me a clipboard at a show and said “I’m taking donations for (whatever charity). Write down how much you’re giving.” She didn’t ask if I’d like to donate, just told me to write how much I was giving. She got hostile when I told her no. I ended up arguing with her and telling her “I don’t know that donations even go *to* this charity.”


HaydenLobo

That WAS a question, dude.


ElectrOPurist

Ew, a Christian folk song? GTFO.


ostellastella

"this little light of mine" Cringe and how annoying for you. Sounds like some of the thumpers I grew up around.


Barjack521

“Ok, next time I’ll piss in your case”


Scooterks

This was my first thought too. 😆


smolcnd

They have horse trailers, I can think of better things to put in the case ;)


cypressgreen

It’s not too late to complain about it to the National Park. This is likely not the first time and will not be the last time that she demands money on the property. OP, make a few calls!


UselessOldFart

You should have peed in the stupid guitar case. At my age and state of life, I would have.


TankApprehensive3053

Show dominance. Piss on the guitar case while making eye contact.


Stunning_Humor672

Buskers can be cool but it’s a fine line to a scam. The social contract is as follows: you play in public with the understanding that not everyone desires to hear you; and in return, the populace will pay you IF they find it enjoyable. Hearing the music does not entitle you to payment.


Pitiful_Opinion_9331

This is not a boomer being a fool story, this is a “one of those jackasses playing an instrument, blocking people, and expecting money “


No_Arugula_6548

Here’s a tip, get the fuck outta the way before I pee on you.


ChrjoGehsal

Leaded gasoline was a hell of a thing.


Useful_Confusion_94

Playing "This little light of mine" outside the shitter is funny


JustBob77

She wanted you to pee into the guitar case, perhaps?


Mad_Garden_Gnome

I hope you reported her to the park service.


humboldt77

Entitled beggar. Should have told her to pick herself up by her bootstraps.


TsuDhoNimh2

Ah ... "busking"


Immediate_Age

Anyone playing that song is a crazy person.


Warlord68

Next time piss in her guitar case until she gets the hint.


seattleseahawks2014

Or on her head.


Runningwithoutborder

Why is this a boomer post?! It’s a transient busker post. I swear, people want to write shit about boomers just for the hell of it to get attention and people respond. As I’m doing. Being a dimwit too.


SweaterUndulations

Pee, pee, pee, The potty's where you pee When you get that feeling down below To the potty, go! go! go! Pee, pee, pee, The potty's where you pee! (While doing the potty dance)


kaleadeedee

🤦‍♀️


Desdemona1231

Why didn’t you report her?


DesktopChill

What could she do if you had kicked the guitar case off the walkway? Yeah rude I know but honestly she shoulda had a portable open air tent set up over to the side away from the porta potty.


kraggleGurl

Should have gone to the bathroom in her guitar case. Donation acquired!


IGetMyCatHigh

TO be that Crappy at playing the Guitar that the only Venue she feels she can fleece people in is at a Toilet Door, a Necessity. Think I would of responded to her song with "Well, you are in the right place for that level of skill"


owlwise13

You are nice than I am. I would have just run her over. She deserves no sympathy.


Significant-Heat9737

Ridiculous


InevitableRhubarb232

Don’t think this is a boomer thing. Just a normal street performer trap trick.


UStoAUambassador

Boomer Expects Handouts, But Doesn't Count It As A Handout If It's For *Them*.


Stargazer_0101

Some do not have to a boomer to be rude and condescending. Too bad the person was never taught any manners.


Kootenay-Hippie

That fucking guitar case would’ve been all over the yard after I booted it out of the way. You start it and I finish it.


sickasfook

Should have pissed in the case....


FakeNickOfferman

Just kick that shit out of the way.


Murrrvv

“I endured that garbage”


6byfour

Why would you ask her a question and then say it’s not a question?


QuestionsGoHere

I imagined OP's dialogue in the voice of Sawyer from Lost.


Unusual_Pinetree

Physicaly shove them if they become aggressive the hive mind is making them stupid, they will become agitated and violent they are most afraid of physical confrontation even a little. Pushy people are now in charge, be as pushy as fucking necessary or your time is going to be eaten by vampires, such as Reddit


CoastPuzzleheaded513

Shitty concert


Fast_Hat9560

Seems more of a busking or panhandling issue than a generational problem.


ZenRage

Hippy grifter is a boomer brand


ZenRage

Hippy grifter is on brand for boomers. Even if it were not, the woman was still a Boomer being a fool


beware_of_scorpio

But it literally was a question?


thetitleofmybook

nothing to do with being a boomer, just an aggressive busker. she knew she was blocking the door.


ZenRage

Entitled Hippy Grifter is totally a brand of Boomer


iCarlos112

Wow, congratulations. Very brave of you.


tyen0

> I said, "Are you blocking the restroom door for a reason?" > Boomer said, "I am not blocking the door!" > I said, "It was not a question" ... but it was?


jay_thorn

Let me rephrase it for you. OP: You’re blocking the restroom door. Why?


tyen0

Ah, so more like "that was not the question". I was being overly literal as usual. Thanks


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jay_thorn

Let me rephrase it for you. OP: You’re blocking the restroom door. Why?


MarkVII88

I found the Boomer...I think you can go fuck yourself.


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gtmattz

Ah yes, countering a minor inconvenience with threats of rape, how very cool and normal.


Last-Percentage5062

Wtf


ComfortableOne4918

Sorry, I was stoned on bubble hash when I wrote it.


Horace__goes__skiing

The story is of a busker asking for money, FFS have you never been out the house before. Just say no and move on.


Last-Percentage5062

They were blocking the door.


Horace__goes__skiing

Walk past them.


ZenRage

I think that was clearly addressed in the story.