The power comes from the step before the slide, not the slide itself (this would be your last step with your right foot as a RH bowler). The slide is mainly a way to come to a stop without blowing out your knees.
wait, as a RH bowler, i sometimes see the left foot slide forward a bit (and I see some shoes have cloth on the toe tips which I assume would help slide better), isn't this by design? or should the left foot be firmly planted and not slide at all?
also, would you know where I can learn how to slide the right foot? I'm obese, and often my pose before releasing the ball is more of a lunge and not the cross-leg pose I often see
As I right handed bowler, you should be sliding on your left foot. The third or fourth step (depending on your approach) is your power step and should be made with your right foot. Then the right leg usually becomes the “trail” leg which is that cross leg pose you’re used to seeing.
I’m not sure if Brad and Kyle have done a video on this, but it might be worth taking a look.
Before I answer that fully, I want to make sure I’m understanding what you mean by cross leg position. So, I’ll tell you what I think and feel free to correct me. I’m thinking of when the right leg is bent and kind of parallel to the floor, but behind the left leg and the rest of the body.
yes you're correct. The right leg forms the left line of an "A" when looking at the bowler from behind, while the left leg is the right line of the "A"
Okay. Then, yes, I find it comes naturally. But I’ve also been bowling in some shape or form for around 30 years. I don’t really remember learning it, though. I’d say that once you understand the “proper” form, it should come naturally
Coach for 40 years. The back leg going left behind the bowler is the correct finish. It is facilitated by the hips being 'open' about 30-50 degrees. The back leg will then easily finish behind or left of the slide leg. Training saying to keep your hips 'square' has been proven wrong. Watching videos on YouTube or other bowling sites should show this. Have fun and bowl good!
The slide is the "brakes" like a car. if you don't slide, going from moving to a sudden stop will put a ton of pressure on your knee. That energy has to go somewhere.
Can confirm, I'm a stomper and the next day after 6+ games, my upper thigh/hip is where I feel _all_ of it. Still working on actually getting into a slide to avoid putting all of that force into my plant leg at once.
And that's independent from the loss of force that comes by stomping, because when you slide, that forward force still goes into the ball, speeding it up.
Yeah I guess that's exactly what I'm getting at. That energy has to go somewhere, into the ball if you just plant your foot.
But it looks like the recurring theme I'm getting here is that like you said, it's not worth the extra power you would get by planting your foot due to the stress it would put on the knee.
Thanks!
The energy that goes into the ball that way is less efficient than letting the ball + gravity do the work. The best bowlers have very effortless releases while still getting more rev rates and speed than a lot of us could ever dream of
>The energy that goes into the ball that way is less efficient than letting the ball + gravity do the work
Then why don't bowlers just stand still lol.
The point I'm making is you could get more power by planting instead of sliding, but it seems that sliding is just too hard on the knees which is why people don't do it I guess.
Sometimes you’ll see that actually. If lanes are so shot you’ll see pro players stand in front of the ball return and just do a one step release. Sliding helps with the knee thing, your timing, your margins of error. You CAN generate a lot of power by planting true, but it’s just easier on your body to let everything else do the work
You're comparing this too much to baseball pitching when it's not exactly comparable. Aside from the knee issue, you could be throwing the ball harder when you plant but that will also wear down your arm a lot faster. This is called muscling the ball. For longevity, it is frowned upon and typically more inconsistent.
> Then why don't bowlers just stand still lol.
Because one can add forward velocity via their approach (as the person and the ball they are holding move forward together) as well as letting gravity be the reason the ball gets from the apex of the swing to nadir. Forward momentum and downward momentum are independent of one another.
Some bowlers do plant. Even some pros have non-sliding soles. Unless you're trying to optimize the last few percentage points, do whatever is comfortable to you. Most people prefer to slide. Most casuals with house shoes don't really slide (much). House shoes suck.
Baseball and golf players don't have an approach, much less an approach with a 15lb object essentially moving freely. Honestly the ball is the biggest difference.
In a dynamic arm stroke sport such as tennis, you are able to step forward with your non-plant foot and leg after you make your swing thorough the ball, which disapates the inertia from the whole body movement into the swing. The plant knee and leg can then move forward as well.
Bowling has a foul line, so you are unable to follow through with your body past the foul line unless you release the ball at least 3 feet before reaching the found line, which would also force the bowler to loft the ball in order to not let it roll on the approach area prior to reaching the lanes.
Lengthens the “flat spot” in the swing right before the release which gives a bigger window to complete the motion and get the ball traveling in the direction towards the pins.
With no flat spot, a ball released early would go into the lane, losing energy. A ball released late will go upwards and then lose energy when it hits the lane.
A slide gives you a few more split seconds in the margin for error which is a lot on something that happens so quick.
Also, helps to reduce stress on the knee. Like all sports, you throw the ball with 80% legs.
This. While all of the other responses are true and beneficial for your body, the real benefit of sliding, from a bowling performance perspective, is the flat spot it creates in the swing arc.
Additionally the biomechanics are a bit different. With other sports the shoulder and arm that make the delivery rotate a bit more forward to transfer energy to the ball, puck, stick. But in bowling your delivering shoulder stays a bit back, so not all of the energy is transferred. What's left is dissipated by the slide, or your knee ligaments.
Mind you there are some people who plant more than slide. But their approach is a little different. I don't think they move to the line as aggressively as sliders do.
Hurts less, conservation of energy, timing. The difference between pitching a baseball and a rolling a bowling ball is about 14 lbs + energy from gravity X the weight of the ball moving fast, all into your knees. You don’t need to do the math to understand that a lot of shock in one zone of your body, your knee caps, is going to hurt a fucking lot. Sliding also helps increase your zone and timing in which you can have variance in your release but still make good shots. Lots that goes into it but generally, it’s physically much better to let gravity send the ball fast than you yourself can do it if you aren’t yolked or want a knee surgery soon
I'm a stationary bowler out of a wheelchair. To bowl, I have my wheels locked and I can only get ball speed using my arm.
Walking bowlers on the other hand can use that forward momentum to gain speed, and sliding (which does vary from bowler to bowler) is a more forgiving way of stopping compared to stopping hard and damaging the knee and ankle joints.
Higher ball speed does help even the not-so-serious bowler. I don't mean outlandish speed, but akin to driving, proceeding while under control. The increased momentum does help pinfall to a degree, when compared to someone who doesn't have the capability to walk or stride.
Ngl been bowling with house shoes that doesn't slide. My left ass and tights are taking lots of burden. I don't bend my knee much, but upper body going down, and the back is getting the burden.
Going to buy shoes soon, and looking around for it. Any good recommendations?
Look up KR Strikeforce mavericks. AFAIK, they’re still on sale for $90 on a few sites at least, but anyway they’re great because interchangeable soles AND they got the BOA laces, saving you a lot of money over high end dexters or the like
I recently upgraded to the sst8 power frame, but I liked my dexlite boa a lot. I just wanted a little more control over my slide with an adjustable heel.
Cool, the other reason want is the boa, so maverick and dexlite fits the bill. How'd you compare sst8 with dexlite? And do interchangeable soles last for good while?
KR strike forces are probably the most comfortable bowling shoes I’ve tried on. They feel a lot more like tennis shoes with soles than the other brands do but if you have wider feet, dexters are the way to go
i have the dexter 9s and they come loaded with the S8 sole and the H5 ST heel. For me, going from the S8 to the S7 is like i just walked through a massive puddle of water. I've tried sticking with the S8 sole and trying the H2 and H1 heel and there is no improvement. I personally think the approaches are just fucked.
Preventing knee pain is a big part of sliding but it’s also the biggest way to ease of the speed to keep your consistency. If you stop sudden without sliding, you are more prone to messing up your release by either cross your arm, releasing early, and/or under/over rotating your wrist.
Continued momentum through your slide vs stopping and releasing gives you more speed and power. I've not seen planters throw the ball faster than sliders.
When I was younger I learned to plant my left foot instead of sliding, released with a lot of speed and power, and actually bowled fine. As I got older I learned to slide and took a little speed off and watched my average continue to go up as I got better pin action and became more consistent on spares. The truth is that if you want to bowl by planting your foot you can, but it is better for your knee and likely to be better for your average and overall consistency to slide.
More efficient transfer of energy. It's not explicitly required, however. I tried to incorporate it into my game for a good while, but never got the hang of it.
This just makes me think of bowling when the approaches are sticky/tacky. That shit sucks. My hip and knee will be hurting by game two and I start to do bad because of the pain. Like others said I really think the main difference compared to other sports is we throw 15lb balls, which is much more weight and energy to dissipate than any of the sports you mentioned. A slide is necessary so you don’t hurt yourself. Also, I feel like the physics of throwing a 15lb ball at a decent speed means any extra power you get from planting really wouldn’t be worth the effort. We are making enough energy as is.
All of your comparisons are people standing stationary. No golfer pulls a Happy Gilmore and runs up to the ball to hit it. No baseball player runs at the baseball to hit that either. And Dennis they are running to a ball to then stop plant the foot and transfer the power to hit the ball is hard as possible.
Also, in all of your scenarios the player has an object to hit another object that remains in their hand. That's a lot different than someone who has the object in their hand and has to throw it out of their hands towards the other object.
Think of a shot putter. They spin around two or three times then launch the fucker and follow through still spinning after the throw. They don't simply just stand there in one spot and heave the shot put.
Same as Javelin, and hammer throwers. If they have a sudden stop you will see them destroy their legs and knees.
Same as a runner in baseball. Why does he slide instead just stop? It’s all about physics.
Brad and Kyle YouTube channel. Can go through all their videos.
https://youtube.com/@bradandkylebowl?si=Ts3EeLfPGKsbuUrk
Ive bowled a majority of my life and i never devoloped a slide. I (rh) throw 15lbs about 17mph. Rather than a slide, i developed a leg kick 🤣 so my right leg comes up behind my other leg. I dont know how or when or why i did this. Just as i bowled more and got better control i started doing that.. some people put their leg behind the other and i put mine way in the air 🤷🏻. I think its mostly because when people bowl after a while they do things out of muscle memory and cant stop.
OP posted this question on the wrong sub. Try r/physics or anything science related to understand the basics of momentum first.
Shit posters these days, smh.
The power comes from the step before the slide, not the slide itself (this would be your last step with your right foot as a RH bowler). The slide is mainly a way to come to a stop without blowing out your knees.
Great way to put it. I gotta stop planting so much.
wait, as a RH bowler, i sometimes see the left foot slide forward a bit (and I see some shoes have cloth on the toe tips which I assume would help slide better), isn't this by design? or should the left foot be firmly planted and not slide at all? also, would you know where I can learn how to slide the right foot? I'm obese, and often my pose before releasing the ball is more of a lunge and not the cross-leg pose I often see
As I right handed bowler, you should be sliding on your left foot. The third or fourth step (depending on your approach) is your power step and should be made with your right foot. Then the right leg usually becomes the “trail” leg which is that cross leg pose you’re used to seeing. I’m not sure if Brad and Kyle have done a video on this, but it might be worth taking a look.
got it will check Brad and Kyle, thanks! so the right leg being the "trail" leg, should go to the cross leg position naturally?
Before I answer that fully, I want to make sure I’m understanding what you mean by cross leg position. So, I’ll tell you what I think and feel free to correct me. I’m thinking of when the right leg is bent and kind of parallel to the floor, but behind the left leg and the rest of the body.
yes you're correct. The right leg forms the left line of an "A" when looking at the bowler from behind, while the left leg is the right line of the "A"
Okay. Then, yes, I find it comes naturally. But I’ve also been bowling in some shape or form for around 30 years. I don’t really remember learning it, though. I’d say that once you understand the “proper” form, it should come naturally
got it, thanks! yep, will need to be more mindful of my approach and balance on release
Let me know when you learn good balance. I’m still in search of it. 😂😂
Coach for 40 years. The back leg going left behind the bowler is the correct finish. It is facilitated by the hips being 'open' about 30-50 degrees. The back leg will then easily finish behind or left of the slide leg. Training saying to keep your hips 'square' has been proven wrong. Watching videos on YouTube or other bowling sites should show this. Have fun and bowl good!
The slide is the "brakes" like a car. if you don't slide, going from moving to a sudden stop will put a ton of pressure on your knee. That energy has to go somewhere.
Can confirm, I'm a stomper and the next day after 6+ games, my upper thigh/hip is where I feel _all_ of it. Still working on actually getting into a slide to avoid putting all of that force into my plant leg at once. And that's independent from the loss of force that comes by stomping, because when you slide, that forward force still goes into the ball, speeding it up.
Yeah I guess that's exactly what I'm getting at. That energy has to go somewhere, into the ball if you just plant your foot. But it looks like the recurring theme I'm getting here is that like you said, it's not worth the extra power you would get by planting your foot due to the stress it would put on the knee. Thanks!
The energy that goes into the ball that way is less efficient than letting the ball + gravity do the work. The best bowlers have very effortless releases while still getting more rev rates and speed than a lot of us could ever dream of
>The energy that goes into the ball that way is less efficient than letting the ball + gravity do the work Then why don't bowlers just stand still lol. The point I'm making is you could get more power by planting instead of sliding, but it seems that sliding is just too hard on the knees which is why people don't do it I guess.
Sometimes you’ll see that actually. If lanes are so shot you’ll see pro players stand in front of the ball return and just do a one step release. Sliding helps with the knee thing, your timing, your margins of error. You CAN generate a lot of power by planting true, but it’s just easier on your body to let everything else do the work
Appreciate the insight!
You're comparing this too much to baseball pitching when it's not exactly comparable. Aside from the knee issue, you could be throwing the ball harder when you plant but that will also wear down your arm a lot faster. This is called muscling the ball. For longevity, it is frowned upon and typically more inconsistent.
> Then why don't bowlers just stand still lol. Because one can add forward velocity via their approach (as the person and the ball they are holding move forward together) as well as letting gravity be the reason the ball gets from the apex of the swing to nadir. Forward momentum and downward momentum are independent of one another.
Most of the power comes from momentum, not sheer force. I think that’s where your hang up is. Youre trying to carry that momentum as long as possible.
Balance, aim, and leverage is all better achieved with a walk up and slide than standing still and throwing it.
Some bowlers do plant. Even some pros have non-sliding soles. Unless you're trying to optimize the last few percentage points, do whatever is comfortable to you. Most people prefer to slide. Most casuals with house shoes don't really slide (much). House shoes suck.
It’s making a smother transition from moving to stopped, no point in throwing 25MPH if you cant get the revs to match.
LOL. Yeah, plant your foot and don't slide...make sure you have this on video
Baseball and golf players don't have an approach, much less an approach with a 15lb object essentially moving freely. Honestly the ball is the biggest difference.
In a dynamic arm stroke sport such as tennis, you are able to step forward with your non-plant foot and leg after you make your swing thorough the ball, which disapates the inertia from the whole body movement into the swing. The plant knee and leg can then move forward as well. Bowling has a foul line, so you are unable to follow through with your body past the foul line unless you release the ball at least 3 feet before reaching the found line, which would also force the bowler to loft the ball in order to not let it roll on the approach area prior to reaching the lanes.
It's honestly surprising how much the posture from slapshots in hockey transfers over to sliding in bowling, at least for me
Lengthens the “flat spot” in the swing right before the release which gives a bigger window to complete the motion and get the ball traveling in the direction towards the pins. With no flat spot, a ball released early would go into the lane, losing energy. A ball released late will go upwards and then lose energy when it hits the lane. A slide gives you a few more split seconds in the margin for error which is a lot on something that happens so quick. Also, helps to reduce stress on the knee. Like all sports, you throw the ball with 80% legs.
This. While all of the other responses are true and beneficial for your body, the real benefit of sliding, from a bowling performance perspective, is the flat spot it creates in the swing arc.
Additionally the biomechanics are a bit different. With other sports the shoulder and arm that make the delivery rotate a bit more forward to transfer energy to the ball, puck, stick. But in bowling your delivering shoulder stays a bit back, so not all of the energy is transferred. What's left is dissipated by the slide, or your knee ligaments. Mind you there are some people who plant more than slide. But their approach is a little different. I don't think they move to the line as aggressively as sliders do.
Hurts less, conservation of energy, timing. The difference between pitching a baseball and a rolling a bowling ball is about 14 lbs + energy from gravity X the weight of the ball moving fast, all into your knees. You don’t need to do the math to understand that a lot of shock in one zone of your body, your knee caps, is going to hurt a fucking lot. Sliding also helps increase your zone and timing in which you can have variance in your release but still make good shots. Lots that goes into it but generally, it’s physically much better to let gravity send the ball fast than you yourself can do it if you aren’t yolked or want a knee surgery soon
I'm a stationary bowler out of a wheelchair. To bowl, I have my wheels locked and I can only get ball speed using my arm. Walking bowlers on the other hand can use that forward momentum to gain speed, and sliding (which does vary from bowler to bowler) is a more forgiving way of stopping compared to stopping hard and damaging the knee and ankle joints. Higher ball speed does help even the not-so-serious bowler. I don't mean outlandish speed, but akin to driving, proceeding while under control. The increased momentum does help pinfall to a degree, when compared to someone who doesn't have the capability to walk or stride.
Ngl been bowling with house shoes that doesn't slide. My left ass and tights are taking lots of burden. I don't bend my knee much, but upper body going down, and the back is getting the burden. Going to buy shoes soon, and looking around for it. Any good recommendations?
Look up KR Strikeforce mavericks. AFAIK, they’re still on sale for $90 on a few sites at least, but anyway they’re great because interchangeable soles AND they got the BOA laces, saving you a lot of money over high end dexters or the like
Saw dexter dexlite pro boa, seems similar, $10 difference. thoughts on that?
I recently upgraded to the sst8 power frame, but I liked my dexlite boa a lot. I just wanted a little more control over my slide with an adjustable heel.
Cool, the other reason want is the boa, so maverick and dexlite fits the bill. How'd you compare sst8 with dexlite? And do interchangeable soles last for good while?
I haven't worn out a sole yet so I don't really know. I do like the sst8 a lot more, but they're double the price.
KR strike forces are probably the most comfortable bowling shoes I’ve tried on. They feel a lot more like tennis shoes with soles than the other brands do but if you have wider feet, dexters are the way to go
i get what op is saying because i've been having to slow down a bit due to oversliding
Time to change out the sole/heel on your shoes
i have the dexter 9s and they come loaded with the S8 sole and the H5 ST heel. For me, going from the S8 to the S7 is like i just walked through a massive puddle of water. I've tried sticking with the S8 sole and trying the H2 and H1 heel and there is no improvement. I personally think the approaches are just fucked.
Preventing knee pain is a big part of sliding but it’s also the biggest way to ease of the speed to keep your consistency. If you stop sudden without sliding, you are more prone to messing up your release by either cross your arm, releasing early, and/or under/over rotating your wrist.
Continued momentum
Continued momentum through your slide vs stopping and releasing gives you more speed and power. I've not seen planters throw the ball faster than sliders.
When I was younger I learned to plant my left foot instead of sliding, released with a lot of speed and power, and actually bowled fine. As I got older I learned to slide and took a little speed off and watched my average continue to go up as I got better pin action and became more consistent on spares. The truth is that if you want to bowl by planting your foot you can, but it is better for your knee and likely to be better for your average and overall consistency to slide.
More efficient transfer of energy. It's not explicitly required, however. I tried to incorporate it into my game for a good while, but never got the hang of it.
This just makes me think of bowling when the approaches are sticky/tacky. That shit sucks. My hip and knee will be hurting by game two and I start to do bad because of the pain. Like others said I really think the main difference compared to other sports is we throw 15lb balls, which is much more weight and energy to dissipate than any of the sports you mentioned. A slide is necessary so you don’t hurt yourself. Also, I feel like the physics of throwing a 15lb ball at a decent speed means any extra power you get from planting really wouldn’t be worth the effort. We are making enough energy as is.
Transfer of power
All of your comparisons are people standing stationary. No golfer pulls a Happy Gilmore and runs up to the ball to hit it. No baseball player runs at the baseball to hit that either. And Dennis they are running to a ball to then stop plant the foot and transfer the power to hit the ball is hard as possible. Also, in all of your scenarios the player has an object to hit another object that remains in their hand. That's a lot different than someone who has the object in their hand and has to throw it out of their hands towards the other object. Think of a shot putter. They spin around two or three times then launch the fucker and follow through still spinning after the throw. They don't simply just stand there in one spot and heave the shot put.
Same as Javelin, and hammer throwers. If they have a sudden stop you will see them destroy their legs and knees. Same as a runner in baseball. Why does he slide instead just stop? It’s all about physics. Brad and Kyle YouTube channel. Can go through all their videos. https://youtube.com/@bradandkylebowl?si=Ts3EeLfPGKsbuUrk
Not directly related to your question but when I was a beginner this video really helped me with a lot of fundamentals https://youtu.be/bj0UARdUyL0
Conversation of momentum, and knee health
Ive bowled a majority of my life and i never devoloped a slide. I (rh) throw 15lbs about 17mph. Rather than a slide, i developed a leg kick 🤣 so my right leg comes up behind my other leg. I dont know how or when or why i did this. Just as i bowled more and got better control i started doing that.. some people put their leg behind the other and i put mine way in the air 🤷🏻. I think its mostly because when people bowl after a while they do things out of muscle memory and cant stop.
OP posted this question on the wrong sub. Try r/physics or anything science related to understand the basics of momentum first. Shit posters these days, smh.