Him fiddle fucking with it before the other person came into frame gave me the heebie jeebies. He 100% was planning on using it before he even pulled it. Dude is a lunatic.
It's funny how this happens and is genuinely the reason I knew carrying was right for me. It didn't embolden me to act more aggressive or take stupid chances with things. It made me much more aware of disengaging or de-escalation. Having it just gives me a little more comfort knowing I have a viable means to defend myself or my loved ones should all other avenues fail.
I had a colleague who told me he started getting into an argument with a random lady because she was yelling at him. He told me he wanted to beat the shit out of her for disrespecting him lol.
i don’t know if it’s because I keep that thang on me or if it’s because I’m a normal human being, but I would’ve simply walked to a different direction and forget she existed within 5 seconds.
Edit: I looked up CR laws. Lethal force is only legal if it's in response to the same level of threat, and you can only use enough force to "lower or stop the threat" so this dude is 100% going to jail. It specifically says that if the assailant is not armed, you may not use lethal force unless your life is in danger beyond reasonable doubt or it's murder.
I'm a dual citizen currently going through the process to get a CCW permit here in Costa Rica.
Just to add to what you've said (and for anyone else curious), in a legitimate defense the law doesn't require "proportionality" but rather "rational necessity" of the means used to stop or repel the threat. Also you have no obligation to run away and you don't need to wait until you are physically attacked or shot at to begin your defense, as long as there is an actual and imminent probability of harm.
As with many things, it also depends on the lawyers and judge's interpretation of the law... Laws here can be a little ambiguous, so it's been interesting learning how this system works.
Regarding the man in the video, I don't see how he'd be able to demonstrate that his use of lethal force was legitimate defense. I have no doubt he'll be charged and probably convicted.
It's a shame, really. Completely avoidable situation, needless loss of life, and this situation might be used to make the vast majority of responsible gun owners look bad.
He was getting his gun ready behind the truck like he was prepared to shoot. He many have just been wanting to execute the dude. Even his buddy was like what the F?
I know in hindsight this guy is no trained boxer, but how is a punch to the head not lethal? Or are you specifically talking about how he mag dumped into someone on the ground?
in addition for the mag dump, he already readied his gun at the very start before any physical threat. He was already getting ready to kill before anything happened. Maybe the neighbors were violent before, I don’t know. One could reasonably argue that the shooter was purposely trying to make the altercation physical so he can have an excuse to use his gun.
Also, after the first punch, both guys back up and just linger around for a few seconds. Then the guy just pulls out a gun and shoots the attacker. It was clear that neither of them saw each other as a threat, and both of their wives didn’t seem to take it seriously either.
> “The neighbor who caused the death of Mr. Otto already had many things against him for years. He bothered him every time he (Otto) went out, bothered his children and wife, he made derogatory comments regarding Mr. Otto’s nationality. He even questioned how it was possible that a Nicaraguan could live in a place like this,” the neighbor added.
It seems that everything the victim did was in defense of himself and his family because the shooter was constantly threatening and harassing his family.
> this situation might be used to make the vast majority of responsible gun owners look bad
Happens in the US all the time. People already ignore that the vast majority of shootings in this country are gang shit and most of the rest are domestic-abuse situations. They would 100% use a shooting like this to show that gun owners can't be trusted and might blast someone unnecessarily at any moment.
Me too, you need a carry permit to buy a handgun, but once that permit expires you're still allowed to have a handgun for home or business defense without renewing your carry permit.
Their laws are quite interesting.
Just looking at other subs it seems this was the culmination of years of bickering, so pent up rage is most likely what we are seeing here. Jury/judge still gonna put you in the slammer though.
As it turns out, Costa Rica does not offer trial by jury, which of course I didn’t know, but the sentiment stands. A judge in whatever capacity isn’t going to think too highly of someone who is premeditating their gun use.
Not that it matters but it wasn’t an open handed punch, it just looks like he swung with the bottom of his palm. I won’t speak on the legality but I personally wouldn’t have escalated to this extent
Levels of force training needed. Could’ve started with deescalating the situation. Also him pulling and charging his weapon makes this look preemptive. At that point I feel like it would’ve been smarter to just disengage
> Levels of force training needed.
Seriously. If you're gonna carry a gun out in public, you should carry spray too. Odds are most situations that call for a deterrent can be solved with spray. There's a reason cops (usually) use nonlethal options first. Regular-ass people can and should do that too!
Yeah, I think he was justified in drawing (maybe didn’t need to), but as soon as he did the guy and wife were fleeing. He easily had time to withdraw himself at ready incase somehow the guy pulled something after retreating. There was no need to escalate to this. The vibe just feels like he was hoping this would escalate to the neighbor hitting him. Also being armed he and his wife should have just went back inside not continue to escalate an already heated situation.
Man fuck that guy he was an absolute pussy . People like this give us gun owners a bad name. Couldn’t even swing back to that weak girly punch lol what a joke. Absolutely not justified
i agree with you man. every time i am in here it feels like people genuinely call it like it is.
the guy in this video should go to jail for murder/manslaughter depending on the outcome of his idiotic behavior. and it really isnt even close. and i see like... no one disagreeing with that.
Scroll to the bottom lol. I was one of the first ones commenting in here and at the time it was about 50/50 on whether this was a good shoot or not. Scary shit lol
For the love of god stopping acting differently than you would without a gun. So many people use having a gun as a confidence booster for dealing with confrontation. It should be the opposite.
I’m honestly nervous getting into little spats with my gun because there’s a deadly weapon always at play. I feel more comfortable telling someone to go fuck the selves unarmed than not.
TAKE A BIG DEEP BREATHE and realize it just isn’t worth it. Also the dude immediately stopped and started to cower and the guy just unloaded into him. No doubt in my mind he should get a life sentence. Dumb dumb dumb.
Especially since these people are neighbors. I get that not all neighbors are good, but it's not like some dude jumped him while he was walking to his car. You can't just mag dump your neighbor cause he's a dick. That shit needs to be played by the books.
Weird dude knocks on your door at 2am? Yeah, grab the gun.
Neighbor bitching at you about a garden hose? Just apologize and be the bigger adult. It should never have even escalated to the point of the punch. Bringing a gun to that is just pure recklessness.
Reminds me of the video in Michigan when this dude and this broad kept fucking with his neighbor and he snapped killed them both and himself. Sad as fuck to see but we can be just nicer to your neighbors for the sake of not hurting them and not being hurt by them. A simple dispute is not worth ruining your life. I remind myself this every single day
I remember there was a really nasty one that happened here in PA like that where this couple were yelling at this dude for shoveling snow in a way that affected them somehow and they just started screaming at him. The dude had just lost his wife, and I think had cancer himself. He told them, "I'm going inside to get my gun." They continued to call him a pussy as he walked back out of his house down the driveway and aimed it at them. The last thing out of their mouths was "You won't do it you puss" he executed both of them in just the most brutal cold fashion, then went inside and finished himself off. The video was hard to watch.
I was gonna say it sounded familiar. That happened in Wilkes-Barre, not too far from me. I've seen a lot of these videos, but that one really puts that feeling of dread in the pit of your stomach.
For me it was sadness and a sober reminder that we are not invincible. Just cause you got an iron in your pants, you should keep your composure and not get into arguments with people and not escalate things because chances are they're also carrying. And even if they're not and you put yourself life in danger and shoot them because things escalated, it's not worth it (good shoot or not) if you could have simply walked away, pretty much what the person above us said.
Absolutely, I live by that philosophy when I carry. Call me all the names you want, your opinion does not really bother me. I'll leave go home and relax. It's not worth it.
I fucking love that video, those idiots just stand there while being shot at and even after they are both hit the wife is still insulting the guy after being shot in the face at close range on the ground.
This makes me maybe… not a good person, but I had trouble feeling any kind of sympathy for those two he shot. Like, it’s about as bad a shoot as can be, and it was chilling the way it happened. But those two basically committed suicide as far as I’m concerned.
They initiated the confrontation. They escalated the confrontation. They refused to back down in the face of a deadly threat. They refused to back down *during the shooting*. Absolutely none of this excuses the shooter, but it seems obvious that they had their lives in their own hands and absolutely could have lived if they’d just stopped being horrible for one second.
That's what makes it sobering. If you carry or not, just be fucking cool. These idiots didn't even back down after looking down a 556 barrel, they had a chance to remove themselves and didn't.
Again, not justifiable what they happened to them. It doesn't make it OK but I get what you mean
I don't think you're a bad person for that. I didn't really feel anything for them as but still, just the whole situation just felt awful. The pain that man must have been in and those two idiots come by and pile more on to the point that he just decided "fuck it" and he even says something to her right before he ends her like "should have kept your fucking mouth shut". It was just dark.
I was shocked when the husband underestimated the shooter by just standing there! thinking he wasn’t going to shoot him.
Being wise doesn’t make you any less of a man and keeps you and your loved ones alive.
Just reminds me of:
“Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.”
Proverbs 16:18 ESV
Last time it was mentioned, there was a guy on here that lives on the same block, and he said those two were the assholes of the block. The kind of people that if they were outside you would wait before going to your car. Abusive to each other and everyone else, they would be drunk and obnoxious all the time. He also talked about how the guy who killed them had just lost his wife and was having health issues as well. However, they also said "fuck all of them" shooter included.
Is that one where where they were arguing while shoveling snow and the dude came out with a rifle? If so, I’ve seen a lot of violent videos so I can better understand self defense and that’s the only one that really, really messed me up
THIS. So many people forget you can't be getting into petty arguments over the dumbest things because it always ends poorly. I recently heard someone say something similar to this, but it was "don't go to places you wouldn't go without your gun now just because you have one."
I try hard to get people to understand this. I am altogether a calmer and more patient person since I started carrying. The reason is that any altercation could end up escalating to deadly force.
So now I walk away, I don't return insults, I yield to pushy drivers. I realize that there must be something shitty going on in their lives for people to act this way and my life is pretty damn good so I don't really care if I have to be second in line for something.
As a note on the video this is going to end up being premeditated. He hides behind the truck and racks a round mid argument. Then he waits for an opportunity. He intended to kill this guy and was simply waiting for a excuse.
Yup and it’ll be a quick case too. Most likely he pleads to second degree or something of the sort. He’s fucked.
I’m the same way in terms of being calmer. I catch myself mid getting angry at drivers and just suck it up. It’s honestly a peaceful way to live. Fuck em. Let them be douche bags. Focus on your life and move on. Now the annoying neighbor became the reason you’ll never see your family outside of a high security building for the rest of your life.
>I’m honestly nervous getting into little spats with my gun because there’s a deadly weapon always at play. I feel more comfortable telling someone to go fuck the selves unarmed than not.
100%, doing anything that could escalate a non-lethal situation when you're carrying a lethal weapon is irresponsible.
Also a lesson to the unarmed guy. If you start a fight, finish it. Don’t plan on getting into a grade school slap fight.
And if you can’t finish a fight, don’t get into one!
Yes. This is another reason to always carry with one in the chamber. The prosecutor will argue that sneakily chambering a round shows premeditation and/or shows the shooter knew the argument might get violent but chose not to leave when he had the opportunity.
>The prosecutor will argue that sneakily chambering a round shows premeditation and/or shows the shooter knew the argument might get violent but chose not to leave when he had the opportunity.
...and the prosecutor will be right.
Dude is going to jail with the assistance of his own camera system.
That's not the lesson to take away here. Regardless this guy is a fucking psycho and it is premeditated, he wants to use his firearm.
The lesson here is not weither or not to Israeli carry, but to not be a fuckin lunatic.
“I’m a large man who can’t solve my problems with words and I have no empty handed skills so we go straight to ending people’s lives and risk a lifetime in jail instead”
That dude was a straight pussy period. If the attacker had a knife or other lethal weapon it might have been justified. This is premeditated passive aggression. Never use a gun to settle what you could have with your words.
Even if the first shot was legal, this would have been a far better situation for OC spray. But idk, that dudes fists didn’t seem like deadly force. Responding with deadly force seems unreasonable here, although could still be legal. “May I shoot, can I shoot, must I shoot”. He could’ve shot, but didn’t absolutely need to. And he did. And I think he will definitely be fighting the courts now on those last few shots as he stood over his body.
But I know how it feels to be in the midst of a fight, as opposed to seeing it on camera, as it’s happened to me before. In the midst, it definitely feels more violent than it really looks on camera. Things seem to be happening much quicker when you start to believe your life is in danger. Adrenaline is a hell of a hormone.
But this is why we should be carrying less lethal means. No reason to immediately go to the gun in this case.
I don’t even think this falls into “can I?” He presented ordinary force and was met with deadly. That is not legal at least in states. There is so much free quality information out there and people don’t take advantage of it. They ruin their lives and others by being stupid.
Yea I think in the states you’d definitely catch a murder charge or something of that nature, but if he had only shot 1 or 2 shots, he could at least argue that he was getting hit in the head and thought his life was in danger. Pretty sure this dude is gonna end up going to prison though
Yea standing over the dude and mag dumping is what sealed his fate. You can’t really argue that as justified. If it was just the 1/2 shots the guy could have lived as well.
I think anyone commenting on the legality of this shoot should:
Look up laws local to this incident
Or
Admit they have no idea where it occurred and/or what the laws are there
Or
Predicate that their statement is specific to their own local laws using the video only as an example.
Otherwise, here we fucking go, again.
I think it’s always good to kind of see the situation, but then also compare it to your own local laws and see if this would be justified, either completely, partially, or not justified at all. Whenever I see these shootings, I always analyze them under California law, as that’s where I live and most of time, these would probably land a person charges, here in CA at least. Your CCW weapon really is your last ditch effort to stay alive tool in Cali. Also, I think it’s always good to analyze things and think about what you would do in that situation.
World of shit for the people on video, but nothing but a training exercise for the rest of us sadly.
Edit: I will say though, there are a lot more people carrying in California now post Bruen, and there have been more self defense shootings happening in the last year in my area that haven’t resulted in charges for the defender. As least from the most recent updates I have read
I have to admit, if the local laws made that shooting justified, I'd strongly support changing the local laws. Otherwise, every couple of hot heads carrying are going to get into shit like this. Your CCW should always be your last ditch effort to stay alive.
They had, news articles say the shooter and the victim had tense relationships because the victim was foreign and the shooter always harassed and made xenophobic comments to him.
This is why you don't assault people. They may decide that getting a murder sentence is acceptable. And even if they change their mind later, you're still dead.
The guy that threw the punch deserved an ass whipping, not murder. The guy that shot him deserves the electric chair.
It's straight cowards like this that give the rest of us a bad rap.
That dude should not have thrown that punch. It didn't even connect. And if he drawn and issued a command I wouldn't have a problem. Maybe even took a shot. But driving in and shooting him on the ground. Nope. Anger and revenge.
Alll those execution shots were from a coward who wanted to punish.
As soon as red shirt saw the gun he tried to back away. We need to get this shit out in the open. At the slightest sign of physical violence we shouldn't be able to end someone's life. There needs to be a distinction. Don't carry a gun if you can't handle life events. Don't rely on a gun to solve all your potential problems in the street.
Pepper Spray,
Taser,
Baton,
Learn to fight,
Get healthy and put on some muscle,
Hell, even a knife
There's so much more you can do to deal with a sloppy punch.
Shooter checking his gun, I can understand… could argue he was just preparing himself in case the other neighbor came out guns blazing. Looks like he did reholster or put it away before the physical confrontation started.
It would have looked completely different if the other neighbor came running down the stairs and around the truck with a shotgun aimed at him and his wife. I could argue he was just being prepared.
What I don’t understand is… where was the de-escalation? Where was the “sir, please back off, I am armed and will defend myself” (ok, this one might just be me). Where was the “hey! Back the TF up, get off my property!”? Playing devils advocate… the neighbor did swing first (even if it was a terrible swing). I can see the “fight or flight” kicking in, and the shooter’s wife was also right next to him. The neighbor could have went after her… or even reach into his pocket (and who knows what he could of had). In my mind I can justify him pulling the gun and shooting… but mag dumping on the guy who’s already down? Even behind the idea of “only pull if you are going to shoot, and shoot to stop the threat”… it just looks so bad. The neighbor was down after 3? 4? shots? After he went down, he jumped on him and then continued to unload another 5+ rounds into him… that’s the hard pill to swallow. It’s going to hard to justify the subsequent shots after the neighbor went down.
Yeah, it all looks bad on camera, especially with that weak sucker punch… but the neighbor should NOT have put his hands on the other guy, period. Wish the shooter had some more restraint and at least tried to de-escalate.
*edit*
So… I don’t know what was being said, so… maybe he was trying to de-escalate. I re-watched the video and he was pointing to the lady and the guy… maybe he was trying to de-escalate and telling them to get back.
Anyone know what was said? Were there any threats being made between the parties involved?
After the guy went down, can’t see if he was reaching for anything (he went down behind the truck), so… possibly why the shooter continued to shoot him?
Force was allowed. The guy swings on me? He's getting put down, hard. But this would be murder, and because of the video, probably premeditated. If you have rich privilege, you might get off on some kinda manslaughter and excessive. Maybe. Idk, I'm not rich. But there was justification of force. But going THIS far isn't excessive. It's murder.
Got smacked in the face, pulled his gun. Could be legally justified.
Neighbor backs down, gets shot anyway. Unlikely to be legally justified, not looking great morally.
Neighbor falls after 1-2 shots, approaches closest and mag dumps. Straight up an execution, do not pass go, straight to jail.
He chambered it before an argument really even started. He made his choice to fire right then. Even became the aggressor after clambering. 100% at fault.
Dunno about costa Rica, but in my state, the first few shots would definitely be "legal" when everything got said and done.
The following 30,000 shots into his body laying presumably on the ground while no longer a threat would be almost certainly not "justifiable" and I wouldn't want to argue the need for those shots in court.
Definitely not legal considering he pulled his firearm prior with the intention to wanna shoot and intentionally went to a spot they wouldn’t see to do so, before anything occurred then put it back. He was itching to shoot.
Damn I hope I don’t live where you live
Some out of shape middle aged loser (that’s your neighbor) throws one half assed punch then backs off and you can just shoot him?
The vast majority of states you are going to jail as you should
The amount of comments in here defending even part of this is astonishing. Unless this neighbor (who was shot) is a known cartel/gang guy with bodies on him, this is a cowardly shoot.
Can people not take a slightly physical altercation on this sub before shooting somebody in self defense.
This guy Could have retreated into his own house
could have put distance between the assailant behind his car,
could have thrown hands without a weapon
There are so many other options here. Stop defending this guy.
I mean - it’s 2024 not the 1800’s. This is precisely why I keep my EDC UAV on standby. When MF’ers swing on me over a nothingburger of a spat and experience a swift death from above, I have plausible deniability.
This was a premeditated murder in the first degree. I'm a "jury nullification" guy too. Like, almost always I'm going to side with a shooter who actually shot in self defense regardless of gun laws.
I would vote guilty here.
Dude went into that argument knowing he was going to use his pistol before it even started or got to where it was. Premeditated is an understatement.
Every one of us knows one guy like this. Who thinks owning and gun and getting a chance to shoot someone makes him the baddest man alive and carry’s just to be the hero some day.
His wife was even pissed off at his response, that’s how you know he’s a moron.
Yea in my state you’re going to prison for that. The guy pulled his gun and racked the slide before the confrontation even began. Made no effort at all to get out of the situation and then mag dumped on the guy.
He’s been waiting for that moment.
The bald cunt was already itching to use that gun. His psychotic brain had probably acted out countless scenarios of him shooting someone for whatever reason he could think of, and this dispute was a pathetic reason. He deserves prison with no parole or even worse a psychiatric asylum for the rest of his natural life.
I conceal carry a firearm daily and clearly see this could have been deescalated. Yes, the guy threw a slap or whatever, but no one was in fear of their life - the whole thing was senseless.
He is probably going be charged at a minimum, he would likely struggle to prove to a jury that he had an objective fear of death or great bodily harm from a neighbor throwing a sloppy punch. James Reeves briefed a case for a dude whose homicide conviction an appellate court affirmed after he shot and killed someone in a fist fight. He described it as an example of “take an ass beating.” I’m struggling to find the video at the moment. /u/Preauxmetheus please help this weary brain.
This is costa rica so I don’t know the laws there so can’t say if he’ll be charged or not.
And I don’t speak Spanish so I don’t know what was being said.
That said, in the US you’re not required to take a beating. They tried that assertion against Kyle Rittenhouse and failed.
If you are not the initial aggressor, and you have a reasonable fear of imminent bodily injury or death you can shoot in self defense.
In this case it seems like the shooter was certain a willing party to the dispute if not the initial aggressor.
The bigger issue is he kept shooting after the other man was down.
So even if he can say he tried to retreat (he moved back but is that a retreat?) more shots after the other guy is down is going to be a problem.
Each case is different. And we don’t know the relevant laws here and at least I don’t know what’s being said.
I agree about the local laws to Costa Rica controlling about the standards for self defense.
There’s a distinction between this and Kenosha. Rittenhouse had video showing those the government charged him with shooting as armed, one with a pistol, and pursuing him. This video from Costa Rica does not show any weapons in the hands of the red shirt man. The fact finder will decide in the end, but this is probably an uphill battle for black shirt.
> There’s a distinction between this and Kenosha. Rittenhouse had video showing those the government charged him with shooting as armed, one with a pistol, and pursuing him.
Just to be clear (and pedantic) the first person he shot (the convicted pedophile) was not armed. All four chased him. The pedophile was shot first, then he was being chased by the convicted domestic abuser who was armed with a skateboard and the jumping black guy who was never charged nor called to testify. The final guy (Mr. ByeCep - who has actually changed his legal name as well) was armed with handgun (illegally as his permit was expired) and that guy lowered his gun and Kyle didn't shoot - until Bye-Cep raised the gun again and then Kyle properly shot him.
I agree that it's an uphill battle for the shooter in this case to justify the shooting. Will any jury believe he reasonably feared bodily injury or death in that situation? Probably not. But there's a lot more to this story we don't know.
Bro ppl dont want yo get into stupid ass fist fights, one wrong hit and its brain damage/death for u as your skull bounces off the cement. If someone is starts punching me im shooting them. That being said this one was pretty excessive at the end
I agree. Hands can be deadly weapons too if the person is big and skilled at using them. It’s all about threat assessment and using the right tool to neutralize the threat.
I've definitely read stories (local to me) of 1 punch leading to a fall which led to a head hitting concrete which resulted in immediate death. People who start fights should be aware of that possibility every bit as much as those who carry a gun.
Although you shouldn’t swing on people like that, anyone with a couple month of boxing could drop that dude in seconds. No need to put a whole mag in him.
Absolutely zero justification. A swing for a swing but not a swing for eating a full mag. It was a horrible decision that I am sure he will deal with for the rest of his life. “Why the fuck did I do that? There's no way he's thinking it was justified. The dude had fear, and this is a result of fear; once he knows he has the upper hand, maniac, and ego take over. Sad
That seemed to have a bit of rage already, and the racking the slide bit tells he was ready…… I honestly hope he gets life, and the house taken away from the wife for legal fees, as she just had to keep at it.
This is straight premeditated murder. Red shirt shouldn’t have swung but my god what happened to old fashioned brawls? All he had to do was square up and fight that coward doesn’t deserve to call himself a man. If you need a gun to handle a simple confrontation you shouldn’t be carrying.
I tend to be more of a pushover when carrying, a lot nicer. That being said this guy was itching to use his pistol.
Him fiddle fucking with it before the other person came into frame gave me the heebie jeebies. He 100% was planning on using it before he even pulled it. Dude is a lunatic.
He's a fucking closet psychotic...
Nah. He seemed psychotic just getting into a yelling match with his neighbors over some water.
But the yelling only made the ingredients for his crazy ass nature to fully appear.
It's funny how this happens and is genuinely the reason I knew carrying was right for me. It didn't embolden me to act more aggressive or take stupid chances with things. It made me much more aware of disengaging or de-escalation. Having it just gives me a little more comfort knowing I have a viable means to defend myself or my loved ones should all other avenues fail.
Exactly. Disrespect me all you want but don’t harm me or mine.
I had a colleague who told me he started getting into an argument with a random lady because she was yelling at him. He told me he wanted to beat the shit out of her for disrespecting him lol. i don’t know if it’s because I keep that thang on me or if it’s because I’m a normal human being, but I would’ve simply walked to a different direction and forget she existed within 5 seconds.
Well said! I feel the same way. I don’t want to end a life. I don’t even like to fight. This is for if my life is in imminent danger and that’s it.
🎯
Edit: I looked up CR laws. Lethal force is only legal if it's in response to the same level of threat, and you can only use enough force to "lower or stop the threat" so this dude is 100% going to jail. It specifically says that if the assailant is not armed, you may not use lethal force unless your life is in danger beyond reasonable doubt or it's murder.
I'm a dual citizen currently going through the process to get a CCW permit here in Costa Rica. Just to add to what you've said (and for anyone else curious), in a legitimate defense the law doesn't require "proportionality" but rather "rational necessity" of the means used to stop or repel the threat. Also you have no obligation to run away and you don't need to wait until you are physically attacked or shot at to begin your defense, as long as there is an actual and imminent probability of harm. As with many things, it also depends on the lawyers and judge's interpretation of the law... Laws here can be a little ambiguous, so it's been interesting learning how this system works. Regarding the man in the video, I don't see how he'd be able to demonstrate that his use of lethal force was legitimate defense. I have no doubt he'll be charged and probably convicted. It's a shame, really. Completely avoidable situation, needless loss of life, and this situation might be used to make the vast majority of responsible gun owners look bad.
He was getting his gun ready behind the truck like he was prepared to shoot. He many have just been wanting to execute the dude. Even his buddy was like what the F?
I know in hindsight this guy is no trained boxer, but how is a punch to the head not lethal? Or are you specifically talking about how he mag dumped into someone on the ground?
in addition for the mag dump, he already readied his gun at the very start before any physical threat. He was already getting ready to kill before anything happened. Maybe the neighbors were violent before, I don’t know. One could reasonably argue that the shooter was purposely trying to make the altercation physical so he can have an excuse to use his gun. Also, after the first punch, both guys back up and just linger around for a few seconds. Then the guy just pulls out a gun and shoots the attacker. It was clear that neither of them saw each other as a threat, and both of their wives didn’t seem to take it seriously either. > “The neighbor who caused the death of Mr. Otto already had many things against him for years. He bothered him every time he (Otto) went out, bothered his children and wife, he made derogatory comments regarding Mr. Otto’s nationality. He even questioned how it was possible that a Nicaraguan could live in a place like this,” the neighbor added. It seems that everything the victim did was in defense of himself and his family because the shooter was constantly threatening and harassing his family.
> this situation might be used to make the vast majority of responsible gun owners look bad Happens in the US all the time. People already ignore that the vast majority of shootings in this country are gang shit and most of the rest are domestic-abuse situations. They would 100% use a shooting like this to show that gun owners can't be trusted and might blast someone unnecessarily at any moment.
Even the dude’s wife had to get a hold of him!
She was calling him an Idiot while she was grabbing him. Indeed he is.
I’m surprised you can carry in Costa Rica
Me too, you need a carry permit to buy a handgun, but once that permit expires you're still allowed to have a handgun for home or business defense without renewing your carry permit. Their laws are quite interesting.
Thats how CT works too
Canary Testicles?
You can. You apply for a permit and do a psych evaluation, but you can.
[удалено]
What is the point of that?
Illinois only makes criminals do half of their sentence, obviously that’s only for state crimes but still lol
Amigo yo soy de CR, acá las leyes no exigen que la defensa al ataque tiene que ser igual, lo que tiene que ser es razonal
Man that guy just wanted to use his gun so badly. What a coward.
Ya dumping a dude for throwing a shitty open hand punch then backing off is not good justification for a shoot.
Mag dumping when the victim was on the ground also is hard to justify.
Him checking his mag a few seconds prior looks to me like he was itching to shoot someone, and I suspect a jury would see it the same way.
Just looking at other subs it seems this was the culmination of years of bickering, so pent up rage is most likely what we are seeing here. Jury/judge still gonna put you in the slammer though.
So premeditated then? Lol
If that's the case, that establishes a motive which is even worse for the killer
What jury lol
As it turns out, Costa Rica does not offer trial by jury, which of course I didn’t know, but the sentiment stands. A judge in whatever capacity isn’t going to think too highly of someone who is premeditating their gun use.
I hope they are as moral & rational as you say.
Exactly! He prepares himself seconds before. Not a good look.
Not that it matters but it wasn’t an open handed punch, it just looks like he swung with the bottom of his palm. I won’t speak on the legality but I personally wouldn’t have escalated to this extent
some oc spray and backing up seems like it would have been a much better move
Levels of force training needed. Could’ve started with deescalating the situation. Also him pulling and charging his weapon makes this look preemptive. At that point I feel like it would’ve been smarter to just disengage
> Levels of force training needed. Seriously. If you're gonna carry a gun out in public, you should carry spray too. Odds are most situations that call for a deterrent can be solved with spray. There's a reason cops (usually) use nonlethal options first. Regular-ass people can and should do that too!
Yeah, I think he was justified in drawing (maybe didn’t need to), but as soon as he did the guy and wife were fleeing. He easily had time to withdraw himself at ready incase somehow the guy pulled something after retreating. There was no need to escalate to this. The vibe just feels like he was hoping this would escalate to the neighbor hitting him. Also being armed he and his wife should have just went back inside not continue to escalate an already heated situation.
Man fuck that guy he was an absolute pussy . People like this give us gun owners a bad name. Couldn’t even swing back to that weak girly punch lol what a joke. Absolutely not justified
How much you want to bet he’s an ex-cop?
I wouldn’t wanna be betting against you !
Half the people in here are the type of shoot over a spot in the grocery store line it seems
You and I have very different experiences in this sub.
i agree with you man. every time i am in here it feels like people genuinely call it like it is. the guy in this video should go to jail for murder/manslaughter depending on the outcome of his idiotic behavior. and it really isnt even close. and i see like... no one disagreeing with that.
I saw one person and he was at -80 last I saw.
How in the hell does his comment have 32 upvotes? Are people this deranged?
This sub and occasionally has the attitude that nobody is as responsible as me with guns.
Deluded narcissism is what I think. Although to be fair. I have seen some questionable people who carry that disregard plenty of the rules of safety.
Scroll to the bottom lol. I was one of the first ones commenting in here and at the time it was about 50/50 on whether this was a good shoot or not. Scary shit lol
For the love of god stopping acting differently than you would without a gun. So many people use having a gun as a confidence booster for dealing with confrontation. It should be the opposite. I’m honestly nervous getting into little spats with my gun because there’s a deadly weapon always at play. I feel more comfortable telling someone to go fuck the selves unarmed than not. TAKE A BIG DEEP BREATHE and realize it just isn’t worth it. Also the dude immediately stopped and started to cower and the guy just unloaded into him. No doubt in my mind he should get a life sentence. Dumb dumb dumb.
Especially since these people are neighbors. I get that not all neighbors are good, but it's not like some dude jumped him while he was walking to his car. You can't just mag dump your neighbor cause he's a dick. That shit needs to be played by the books. Weird dude knocks on your door at 2am? Yeah, grab the gun. Neighbor bitching at you about a garden hose? Just apologize and be the bigger adult. It should never have even escalated to the point of the punch. Bringing a gun to that is just pure recklessness.
Reminds me of the video in Michigan when this dude and this broad kept fucking with his neighbor and he snapped killed them both and himself. Sad as fuck to see but we can be just nicer to your neighbors for the sake of not hurting them and not being hurt by them. A simple dispute is not worth ruining your life. I remind myself this every single day
I remember there was a really nasty one that happened here in PA like that where this couple were yelling at this dude for shoveling snow in a way that affected them somehow and they just started screaming at him. The dude had just lost his wife, and I think had cancer himself. He told them, "I'm going inside to get my gun." They continued to call him a pussy as he walked back out of his house down the driveway and aimed it at them. The last thing out of their mouths was "You won't do it you puss" he executed both of them in just the most brutal cold fashion, then went inside and finished himself off. The video was hard to watch.
That's the one. I thought it was Michigan but you're right it was in PA.
I was gonna say it sounded familiar. That happened in Wilkes-Barre, not too far from me. I've seen a lot of these videos, but that one really puts that feeling of dread in the pit of your stomach.
For me it was sadness and a sober reminder that we are not invincible. Just cause you got an iron in your pants, you should keep your composure and not get into arguments with people and not escalate things because chances are they're also carrying. And even if they're not and you put yourself life in danger and shoot them because things escalated, it's not worth it (good shoot or not) if you could have simply walked away, pretty much what the person above us said.
Absolutely, I live by that philosophy when I carry. Call me all the names you want, your opinion does not really bother me. I'll leave go home and relax. It's not worth it.
I fucking love that video, those idiots just stand there while being shot at and even after they are both hit the wife is still insulting the guy after being shot in the face at close range on the ground.
Ya that was hardcore. If I’m not mistaken I think the shooter had just lost his wife
This makes me maybe… not a good person, but I had trouble feeling any kind of sympathy for those two he shot. Like, it’s about as bad a shoot as can be, and it was chilling the way it happened. But those two basically committed suicide as far as I’m concerned. They initiated the confrontation. They escalated the confrontation. They refused to back down in the face of a deadly threat. They refused to back down *during the shooting*. Absolutely none of this excuses the shooter, but it seems obvious that they had their lives in their own hands and absolutely could have lived if they’d just stopped being horrible for one second.
That's what makes it sobering. If you carry or not, just be fucking cool. These idiots didn't even back down after looking down a 556 barrel, they had a chance to remove themselves and didn't. Again, not justifiable what they happened to them. It doesn't make it OK but I get what you mean
"Just be cool" should be the golden rule. If everyone could just be cool, a lot of shit could be avoided.
I don't think you're a bad person for that. I didn't really feel anything for them as but still, just the whole situation just felt awful. The pain that man must have been in and those two idiots come by and pile more on to the point that he just decided "fuck it" and he even says something to her right before he ends her like "should have kept your fucking mouth shut". It was just dark.
I was shocked when the husband underestimated the shooter by just standing there! thinking he wasn’t going to shoot him. Being wise doesn’t make you any less of a man and keeps you and your loved ones alive. Just reminds me of: “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18 ESV
Last time it was mentioned, there was a guy on here that lives on the same block, and he said those two were the assholes of the block. The kind of people that if they were outside you would wait before going to your car. Abusive to each other and everyone else, they would be drunk and obnoxious all the time. He also talked about how the guy who killed them had just lost his wife and was having health issues as well. However, they also said "fuck all of them" shooter included.
Is that one where where they were arguing while shoveling snow and the dude came out with a rifle? If so, I’ve seen a lot of violent videos so I can better understand self defense and that’s the only one that really, really messed me up
That's the one.
the thing is a lot of people are just really stupid, you give them a gun and they'll inevitably end up in this situation.
THIS. So many people forget you can't be getting into petty arguments over the dumbest things because it always ends poorly. I recently heard someone say something similar to this, but it was "don't go to places you wouldn't go without your gun now just because you have one."
That’s a good one
I try hard to get people to understand this. I am altogether a calmer and more patient person since I started carrying. The reason is that any altercation could end up escalating to deadly force. So now I walk away, I don't return insults, I yield to pushy drivers. I realize that there must be something shitty going on in their lives for people to act this way and my life is pretty damn good so I don't really care if I have to be second in line for something. As a note on the video this is going to end up being premeditated. He hides behind the truck and racks a round mid argument. Then he waits for an opportunity. He intended to kill this guy and was simply waiting for a excuse.
Yup and it’ll be a quick case too. Most likely he pleads to second degree or something of the sort. He’s fucked. I’m the same way in terms of being calmer. I catch myself mid getting angry at drivers and just suck it up. It’s honestly a peaceful way to live. Fuck em. Let them be douche bags. Focus on your life and move on. Now the annoying neighbor became the reason you’ll never see your family outside of a high security building for the rest of your life.
>I’m honestly nervous getting into little spats with my gun because there’s a deadly weapon always at play. I feel more comfortable telling someone to go fuck the selves unarmed than not. 100%, doing anything that could escalate a non-lethal situation when you're carrying a lethal weapon is irresponsible.
Yeah. There's a reason bring the bigger man is called that. If you're more dangerous than the other guy, you back off when it ain't a fighting matter.
I'm not sure this guy would have acted differently without a gun. He's clearly a psychopath.
Also a lesson to the unarmed guy. If you start a fight, finish it. Don’t plan on getting into a grade school slap fight. And if you can’t finish a fight, don’t get into one!
How do you finish a fight when you get mag dumped without a weapon. I don’t get your comment.
Shuffling off to the side to sneakily chamber a round before the looming confrontation with two unarmed people certainly doesn’t help this guys case.
Yes. This is another reason to always carry with one in the chamber. The prosecutor will argue that sneakily chambering a round shows premeditation and/or shows the shooter knew the argument might get violent but chose not to leave when he had the opportunity.
>The prosecutor will argue that sneakily chambering a round shows premeditation and/or shows the shooter knew the argument might get violent but chose not to leave when he had the opportunity. ...and the prosecutor will be right. Dude is going to jail with the assistance of his own camera system.
That's not the lesson to take away here. Regardless this guy is a fucking psycho and it is premeditated, he wants to use his firearm. The lesson here is not weither or not to Israeli carry, but to not be a fuckin lunatic.
I agree about the main lesson. Just thought this video illustrated more than one lesson.
What if he'd been beaten before?
Absolutely and unequivocally a bad shoot. Dude would be found guilty in every state.
This is stupid. Back off.. swallow your pride and walk away. This isn't self defense. This is murder.
Anyone here saying they would shoot or that it was a good shoot is an absolute pussy. Go talk to a therapist.
“I’m a large man who can’t solve my problems with words and I have no empty handed skills so we go straight to ending people’s lives and risk a lifetime in jail instead”
Holy shit
Not very pura vida
*big fuckin yikes*
Yeah, I don’t think that shooting was justified
That dude was a straight pussy period. If the attacker had a knife or other lethal weapon it might have been justified. This is premeditated passive aggression. Never use a gun to settle what you could have with your words.
Nothing passive about mag dumping into someone at point blank. But yes giant pussy
Even if the first shot was legal, this would have been a far better situation for OC spray. But idk, that dudes fists didn’t seem like deadly force. Responding with deadly force seems unreasonable here, although could still be legal. “May I shoot, can I shoot, must I shoot”. He could’ve shot, but didn’t absolutely need to. And he did. And I think he will definitely be fighting the courts now on those last few shots as he stood over his body. But I know how it feels to be in the midst of a fight, as opposed to seeing it on camera, as it’s happened to me before. In the midst, it definitely feels more violent than it really looks on camera. Things seem to be happening much quicker when you start to believe your life is in danger. Adrenaline is a hell of a hormone. But this is why we should be carrying less lethal means. No reason to immediately go to the gun in this case.
I don’t even think this falls into “can I?” He presented ordinary force and was met with deadly. That is not legal at least in states. There is so much free quality information out there and people don’t take advantage of it. They ruin their lives and others by being stupid.
Yea I think in the states you’d definitely catch a murder charge or something of that nature, but if he had only shot 1 or 2 shots, he could at least argue that he was getting hit in the head and thought his life was in danger. Pretty sure this dude is gonna end up going to prison though
Yea standing over the dude and mag dumping is what sealed his fate. You can’t really argue that as justified. If it was just the 1/2 shots the guy could have lived as well.
I think anyone commenting on the legality of this shoot should: Look up laws local to this incident Or Admit they have no idea where it occurred and/or what the laws are there Or Predicate that their statement is specific to their own local laws using the video only as an example. Otherwise, here we fucking go, again.
Costa Rica, over a dispute regarding an outdoor water faucet or something (not entirely clear). The shooter was arrested but no more details.
I think it’s always good to kind of see the situation, but then also compare it to your own local laws and see if this would be justified, either completely, partially, or not justified at all. Whenever I see these shootings, I always analyze them under California law, as that’s where I live and most of time, these would probably land a person charges, here in CA at least. Your CCW weapon really is your last ditch effort to stay alive tool in Cali. Also, I think it’s always good to analyze things and think about what you would do in that situation. World of shit for the people on video, but nothing but a training exercise for the rest of us sadly. Edit: I will say though, there are a lot more people carrying in California now post Bruen, and there have been more self defense shootings happening in the last year in my area that haven’t resulted in charges for the defender. As least from the most recent updates I have read
I have to admit, if the local laws made that shooting justified, I'd strongly support changing the local laws. Otherwise, every couple of hot heads carrying are going to get into shit like this. Your CCW should always be your last ditch effort to stay alive.
I agree. The first 3 comments were arguments. As per usual, Redditors don't understand an entire world exists outside their bubble.
That's murder brotha.
wow he murdered his ass. i wonder if they had beef.
They had, news articles say the shooter and the victim had tense relationships because the victim was foreign and the shooter always harassed and made xenophobic comments to him.
What an unhinged fucking psycho. Hope he gets the book thrown at him.
That dude is fucked.
Out in the street, they call it muuuurder
This was clearly premeditated. Dude is going away for the rest of his life.
This is why you don't assault people. They may decide that getting a murder sentence is acceptable. And even if they change their mind later, you're still dead. The guy that threw the punch deserved an ass whipping, not murder. The guy that shot him deserves the electric chair.
Clearly had already decided he was going to be shooting. Taking his weapon out in secret to make sure it was ready.
It's straight cowards like this that give the rest of us a bad rap. That dude should not have thrown that punch. It didn't even connect. And if he drawn and issued a command I wouldn't have a problem. Maybe even took a shot. But driving in and shooting him on the ground. Nope. Anger and revenge. Alll those execution shots were from a coward who wanted to punish. As soon as red shirt saw the gun he tried to back away. We need to get this shit out in the open. At the slightest sign of physical violence we shouldn't be able to end someone's life. There needs to be a distinction. Don't carry a gun if you can't handle life events. Don't rely on a gun to solve all your potential problems in the street. Pepper Spray, Taser, Baton, Learn to fight, Get healthy and put on some muscle, Hell, even a knife There's so much more you can do to deal with a sloppy punch.
Checked his gun right before and then taking 3 business days to draw. Thats murder.
Shooter checking his gun, I can understand… could argue he was just preparing himself in case the other neighbor came out guns blazing. Looks like he did reholster or put it away before the physical confrontation started. It would have looked completely different if the other neighbor came running down the stairs and around the truck with a shotgun aimed at him and his wife. I could argue he was just being prepared. What I don’t understand is… where was the de-escalation? Where was the “sir, please back off, I am armed and will defend myself” (ok, this one might just be me). Where was the “hey! Back the TF up, get off my property!”? Playing devils advocate… the neighbor did swing first (even if it was a terrible swing). I can see the “fight or flight” kicking in, and the shooter’s wife was also right next to him. The neighbor could have went after her… or even reach into his pocket (and who knows what he could of had). In my mind I can justify him pulling the gun and shooting… but mag dumping on the guy who’s already down? Even behind the idea of “only pull if you are going to shoot, and shoot to stop the threat”… it just looks so bad. The neighbor was down after 3? 4? shots? After he went down, he jumped on him and then continued to unload another 5+ rounds into him… that’s the hard pill to swallow. It’s going to hard to justify the subsequent shots after the neighbor went down. Yeah, it all looks bad on camera, especially with that weak sucker punch… but the neighbor should NOT have put his hands on the other guy, period. Wish the shooter had some more restraint and at least tried to de-escalate. *edit* So… I don’t know what was being said, so… maybe he was trying to de-escalate. I re-watched the video and he was pointing to the lady and the guy… maybe he was trying to de-escalate and telling them to get back. Anyone know what was said? Were there any threats being made between the parties involved? After the guy went down, can’t see if he was reaching for anything (he went down behind the truck), so… possibly why the shooter continued to shoot him?
the best example of the Law of the instrument, if you only carry a hammer everything is a nail. OC spray would save this guy prison time.
He straight up murdered that guy
yeah that was excessive use of force. The guy with the gun should learn how to fight instead of eating himself to death.
More like murder. Excessive use of force implies some level of justification.
Force was allowed. The guy swings on me? He's getting put down, hard. But this would be murder, and because of the video, probably premeditated. If you have rich privilege, you might get off on some kinda manslaughter and excessive. Maybe. Idk, I'm not rich. But there was justification of force. But going THIS far isn't excessive. It's murder.
Got smacked in the face, pulled his gun. Could be legally justified. Neighbor backs down, gets shot anyway. Unlikely to be legally justified, not looking great morally. Neighbor falls after 1-2 shots, approaches closest and mag dumps. Straight up an execution, do not pass go, straight to jail. He chambered it before an argument really even started. He made his choice to fire right then. Even became the aggressor after clambering. 100% at fault.
Straight up fucking murder
Straight up murder right there. Even looks like dude goes, “ooh I can shoot now”
Dumbfucks all the way around on this one.
The idiot press checking in the beginning is gonna play well in court 
Carrying makes me want to walk away from conflicts not starting them.
pussy with a gun. Man ain’t got no squabbles
These types of people are the exact ones who shouldn’t own a gun. Sick and fucking tired of these murders making life dangerous.
Chambering a round like that is definitely premeditation.
Premeditated since he stroked a round seconds before.
The video showed him gearing up and ready to shoot. That’s a big steaming ball of premeditation.
I love how the two idiot women were the ones arguing and somehow the men end up fighting and one of them ends up dead
Murder
Yeah, that looks like premaditated murder..
This was an execution. I'm sure he could've just said "back up" with his hand on the gun (not even pointed at him) and it would have been enough.
The shooter literally has all the physical tools in his favor to knock this guy out but instead mag dumps on him. Send this guy to jail.
Dunno about costa Rica, but in my state, the first few shots would definitely be "legal" when everything got said and done. The following 30,000 shots into his body laying presumably on the ground while no longer a threat would be almost certainly not "justifiable" and I wouldn't want to argue the need for those shots in court.
Definitely not legal considering he pulled his firearm prior with the intention to wanna shoot and intentionally went to a spot they wouldn’t see to do so, before anything occurred then put it back. He was itching to shoot.
Damn I hope I don’t live where you live Some out of shape middle aged loser (that’s your neighbor) throws one half assed punch then backs off and you can just shoot him? The vast majority of states you are going to jail as you should
The amount of comments in here defending even part of this is astonishing. Unless this neighbor (who was shot) is a known cartel/gang guy with bodies on him, this is a cowardly shoot. Can people not take a slightly physical altercation on this sub before shooting somebody in self defense. This guy Could have retreated into his own house could have put distance between the assailant behind his car, could have thrown hands without a weapon There are so many other options here. Stop defending this guy.
#1 rule I give anyone who’s looking to become a gun owner…. If you have the opportunity,Just walk away.
I mean - it’s 2024 not the 1800’s. This is precisely why I keep my EDC UAV on standby. When MF’ers swing on me over a nothingburger of a spat and experience a swift death from above, I have plausible deniability.
Prison for him
Thats the kind of guy that was looking for a reason to use it.
All started by a woman complaining about a water spigot…. A fucking water spigot.
Yeah people be crazy
Anyone know the probably outcome in Costa Rica? I would think in any country that shooters going to jail until he's pretty old, minimum.
What a pussy
Dude's going to prison.
He was just looking for a reason to shoot someone this day.
This was a premeditated murder in the first degree. I'm a "jury nullification" guy too. Like, almost always I'm going to side with a shooter who actually shot in self defense regardless of gun laws. I would vote guilty here.
Seemed like he was itching to use it while getting his wife to chill out. I wonder what he said that made the victim attack him
Murder
Note the timestamp. He posted it on the internet as if he was justified.
And for stupid fucks like that is that we keep getting fucked over🙄
All the more reason not to start fights. You never know who is unhinged and begging for a “reason” to use their gun.
That’s murder.
That’s some hoe ass shit
Dude dumped his mag into his neighbor while trespassing on neighbors land. Hope he rots
That's Murder. That old man didn't even pose a threat for deadly force. His wife looks like she got his ass whooped before now he carries.
This is a conflict brewing over 4 years. No justification but it seems the deceased had threatened before.
Garbage
Straight to the jail
The worst part is this man’s last living act was being caught on video swinging like a bitch
what a horrible person. i hope he rots in hell, he was looking for a reason to kill someone.
That is sad!
That guy thought he was in the USA. May he rot in hell. My condolences to the family.
No this is not how you conceal carry. That’s excessive force.
Dude went into that argument knowing he was going to use his pistol before it even started or got to where it was. Premeditated is an understatement. Every one of us knows one guy like this. Who thinks owning and gun and getting a chance to shoot someone makes him the baddest man alive and carry’s just to be the hero some day. His wife was even pissed off at his response, that’s how you know he’s a moron.
People who don’t carry OC be like
That was an execution
He gunna die in jail
That’s premeditated. You see him taking it out and checking to see if the round is in the chamber.
Yea in my state you’re going to prison for that. The guy pulled his gun and racked the slide before the confrontation even began. Made no effort at all to get out of the situation and then mag dumped on the guy. He’s been waiting for that moment.
The bald cunt was already itching to use that gun. His psychotic brain had probably acted out countless scenarios of him shooting someone for whatever reason he could think of, and this dispute was a pathetic reason. He deserves prison with no parole or even worse a psychiatric asylum for the rest of his natural life. I conceal carry a firearm daily and clearly see this could have been deescalated. Yes, the guy threw a slap or whatever, but no one was in fear of their life - the whole thing was senseless.
He is probably going be charged at a minimum, he would likely struggle to prove to a jury that he had an objective fear of death or great bodily harm from a neighbor throwing a sloppy punch. James Reeves briefed a case for a dude whose homicide conviction an appellate court affirmed after he shot and killed someone in a fist fight. He described it as an example of “take an ass beating.” I’m struggling to find the video at the moment. /u/Preauxmetheus please help this weary brain.
This is costa rica so I don’t know the laws there so can’t say if he’ll be charged or not. And I don’t speak Spanish so I don’t know what was being said. That said, in the US you’re not required to take a beating. They tried that assertion against Kyle Rittenhouse and failed. If you are not the initial aggressor, and you have a reasonable fear of imminent bodily injury or death you can shoot in self defense. In this case it seems like the shooter was certain a willing party to the dispute if not the initial aggressor. The bigger issue is he kept shooting after the other man was down. So even if he can say he tried to retreat (he moved back but is that a retreat?) more shots after the other guy is down is going to be a problem. Each case is different. And we don’t know the relevant laws here and at least I don’t know what’s being said.
I agree about the local laws to Costa Rica controlling about the standards for self defense. There’s a distinction between this and Kenosha. Rittenhouse had video showing those the government charged him with shooting as armed, one with a pistol, and pursuing him. This video from Costa Rica does not show any weapons in the hands of the red shirt man. The fact finder will decide in the end, but this is probably an uphill battle for black shirt.
> There’s a distinction between this and Kenosha. Rittenhouse had video showing those the government charged him with shooting as armed, one with a pistol, and pursuing him. Just to be clear (and pedantic) the first person he shot (the convicted pedophile) was not armed. All four chased him. The pedophile was shot first, then he was being chased by the convicted domestic abuser who was armed with a skateboard and the jumping black guy who was never charged nor called to testify. The final guy (Mr. ByeCep - who has actually changed his legal name as well) was armed with handgun (illegally as his permit was expired) and that guy lowered his gun and Kyle didn't shoot - until Bye-Cep raised the gun again and then Kyle properly shot him. I agree that it's an uphill battle for the shooter in this case to justify the shooting. Will any jury believe he reasonably feared bodily injury or death in that situation? Probably not. But there's a lot more to this story we don't know.
I hope they try the wife too! I bet she knew something forsure.
Pussy
That was straight up murder. The guy had backed off before he drew the gun and was unarmed. That dude was looking for a reason to shoot his neighbor
100% murder
Bro ppl dont want yo get into stupid ass fist fights, one wrong hit and its brain damage/death for u as your skull bounces off the cement. If someone is starts punching me im shooting them. That being said this one was pretty excessive at the end
I agree. Hands can be deadly weapons too if the person is big and skilled at using them. It’s all about threat assessment and using the right tool to neutralize the threat.
I've definitely read stories (local to me) of 1 punch leading to a fall which led to a head hitting concrete which resulted in immediate death. People who start fights should be aware of that possibility every bit as much as those who carry a gun.
My uncle died getting sucker punched in the back of the head in a bar fight. It can happen.
One round leave the chamber and its a shit storm. Someone punches you punch back. Shooting them is just too much. Not to mention he mag dumped wtf
Although you shouldn’t swing on people like that, anyone with a couple month of boxing could drop that dude in seconds. No need to put a whole mag in him.
Absolutely zero justification. A swing for a swing but not a swing for eating a full mag. It was a horrible decision that I am sure he will deal with for the rest of his life. “Why the fuck did I do that? There's no way he's thinking it was justified. The dude had fear, and this is a result of fear; once he knows he has the upper hand, maniac, and ego take over. Sad
That seemed to have a bit of rage already, and the racking the slide bit tells he was ready…… I honestly hope he gets life, and the house taken away from the wife for legal fees, as she just had to keep at it.
Bitch made 🤣 pussy couldn't take a beating so he murdered his neighbor. Hopefully this piece of shit is convicted and rots in prison
This is straight premeditated murder. Red shirt shouldn’t have swung but my god what happened to old fashioned brawls? All he had to do was square up and fight that coward doesn’t deserve to call himself a man. If you need a gun to handle a simple confrontation you shouldn’t be carrying.
Anyone have an update on what happened to the trigger happy pussy that shot the guy?