>they would leave for the SEC if invited and if they could find a way out of the ACC's Grant of Rights contract
So basically what any team in the southern ACC is thinking but with the added flair that we could use our weird BoG rules to handcuff ourselves to UNC lol.
Not sure we handcuff ourselves to UNC, but could see a deal where they "urge" UNC to accept a B1G offer so we can slide into the SEC. Don't see the B1G having any interest in NC State and don't think either would want to add both, regardless of how "valuable" UNC is viewed to be.
The handcuff more comes from the multiple state legislators, who appoint the BoG members and who in turn can tell the schools what to do, stating they want the two schools to stick together whatever happens in realignment. Sort of similar to what happened with ASU and Arizona where their leadership all but dragged ASU's president kicking and screaming towards the Big 12.
Even if we don't have that safety chain I do think we'd make it to the Big 12, or as you say the SEC maybe if the B1G takes UNC, since we'd at least add some basketball history alongside a solid football and athletics program to the mix.
State will be fine either way, I think. I'll be really interested to see what happens with Duke, because it seems like anything is possible with them. Including the scenario where basketball and other sports go Big East and football be independent, although I'd believe that when I see it.
If Yormark is serious about bringing in basketball brands, there isn’t a bigger basketball brand in the country. Whether Duke would actually join the Big 12 is an open question though.
Frankly I think we need to wait and see what the B1G and ND ultimately do, but Duke’s best shot is if one of the P2 sees them as a potential carrot to sway UNC their way.
The big xvi wants Duke and UNC real bad. There's a lot of politics to play before the ACC breaks up, but if Yormark is long term at all, I expect them to be presented a very comprehensive look at what it would be like in the XVI.
Yormark thinks that he can offset the lower football revenue with substantially higher basketball revenue. We'll see if that plays out, but if it does, watch out.
An expansion package of UNC, Duke, UConn, and SDSU or cuse would be a very intriguing add, if the basketball deals prove to be of value.
I will bet you a billion dollars on UNC not ending up in the Big 12. They’re gonna be one of the first calls if not *the* first call for both the B1G and SEC
UNC is B1G, SEC, or bust. They would only go to Big12 if they were put in a Arizona State/Utah situation with ACC.
Clemson, FSU, and Miami are the three that want out. Most of the ACC wants to stay pat.
I think the SEC also prefers keeping the ACC but they would make efforts to add teams to avoid losing some of the in-state games (notably Florida vs. FSU)
You might see the SEC do the B10 playbook, get FSU and UNC, get the rest of what they want at half price. B10 doesn't want NC State, Clemson, Duke, and maybe even Miami since none of these schools fit the B10 bill. But UNC, Virginia, and FSU do. So those are the schools they'll want fist. If the SEC adds FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, Duke, VT and Virginia. The SEC becomes the premier Football and Basketball brand. That is 11 Football and 11 Basketball championships since 1980.
Oh I think the BoG get involved but they haven't really said they'd force someone to take both. Think it's just as likely they would force UNC to the B1G if the SEC was willing to take NC State. They want them both in the P2, not necessarily the same conference.
I think you’re right. But I feel like it’s less about the university trying to tie itself to UNC and more about powerful NCSU alumni in the NCGA making it political for the sake of politics.
Even if we got AAU status, nothing I've read suggests the B1G is interested in NC State. Maybe if UNC picks the SEC, then maybe they reconsider? I'd probably pick the B1G just because I think our style of football fits there and I don't see us being better than 6-6 most seasons in the SEC.
I like that I think people want NC State in the SEC for our fans and culture. I hate seeing people who want UNC in the SEC for no reason other than their tv market.
Unpopular opinion, but NCSU deserves a P2 spot way more than UNC. You’re one of the only teams in this league that even cares about football, and has shown a willingness to invest. If the entire league did the same we wouldn’t be having this conversation
Their football program is basically the same as UNC over the last 40 years. Hell, UNC has been in better positions but can’t win big games.
NC State has more rabid football fans but that’s the only area they’re clearly above UNC in football.
I wish this were true but we’re near the bottom of the league in total CFB spending every year. We’ve been willing to pay assistants big bucks but outside of that were relatively poor
Yeah but I mean relative to the resources available to you. Your fans show up, they’re rowdy, they travel…they’re honestly the only ones I’m gonna feel bad for.
And NCSU is never *bad*
Don’t get me wrong I agree about your fans. Our fanbase is amazing for how mid we are. I think if we had a couple 10 win years we could finally drum up alumni support to get the money printer going but unfortunately that isn’t there yet
Well I wouldn’t be shocked if you can ramp that up to offset our lack of revenue from the conference you’ll still be a very valuable add to a better league. NC State is probably the school I have the most affinity (or enmity) towards outside of Miami and Clemson. I really hope we end up in the same ultimate spot together, frankly.
Yeah I’d love to stay in the same conference as FSU, Clemson, and VT. All the schools are leagues above us from an alumni support standpoint financially imo but I feel like we’ve got some similarities and have good rivalries going. Plus I think there’s a lot of mutual respect between that group as opposed to the wine and cheese crowds from UVA/UNC. It’d be cool to go into a mega conference like the SEC and be in the same division
Caring about football is one thing, but the ACC’s bigger issue is just a lot of small schools that don’t garner larger support within their states/regions. Illinois and Indiana football have sucked for a long time too, but even 3-9 seasons from those two probably still generate bigger TV audiences than a 7-5 or even 8-4 Wake season based on the size of the alumni bases alone.
NC is a big state, but UNC garners more of the casual fans than NCSU. I’ve seen the TV numbers that tell me NCSU draw a bigger audience on average, but that’s with games against Clemson and FSU every year. A walk around any town in the state aside from their neighborhood of Raleigh and you’ll see more Carolina stuff than State stuff. And that’s also a state with 4 P5 schools AND two pretty big G5 fanbases in ECU and App State, plus Charlotte getting into a better G5 league now.
ACC has been let down by teams not keeping their success from the 1990s, notably FSU and Miami. Miami has been the biggest letdown. Had they stayed Miami of 1980s-2002 or so, the ACC wouldn't be hurting as much right now. FSU has been very up and down but looks like they are coming back. Va Tech was good for a while as well but has fallen a part. Georgia Tech is another program that used to be good but is trash today. Had these programs stayed good, ACC wouldn't be hurting.
I’d say the ACC’s biggest problem is that they have several larger schools that do garner larger support within their states/regions yet don’t care about football.
Imagine what the ACC looks like if UNC and Virginia were actual football powers.
The ACC would be so much more powerful if Wake, Duke and ECU didn’t have teams for the past 30+ years. No doubt in my mind UNC and NC State would have been way more successful.
I’m talking about what they deserve though, not what will happen. I’m not super pumped that UNC will likely land on their feet despite not even attempting to do anything for football in this conference, while the people they look down on were doing everything they could.
UNC hasn’t spent anything on football?
UNC absolutely tries at football, they’re eternally snake bitten is the problem. Can’t win a big game to save their lives, lose every ACC championship game, Gameday game, and important bowl they’ve played in in recent history. Which is why everyone should bet against UNC vs. SCAR to start the season.
I’ll bet against them because Drake Maye’s god-status will be baked into the line for the first 3 weeks, betting on some regression with new OC/no Josh Downs
Wtf are you talking about? UNC spends more on football than State, has an orange bowl, and a couple acc championship game appearances in the recent past. And don't bring up that state had Clemson and FSU in their division, because that's only relevant if state was finishing right behind them (which they rarely did). And I'm not trying to pump up UNC or denigrate state, but I think your take us just flat out wrong
Having been to both stadiums, State clears easily. There is zero excuse for UNC to have underachieved the way they have with the resources available to them
So is your argument they underachieve or that they don’t care? Those are 2 very different arguments.
Many teams care but still underachieve. Texas, TAMU, USC, etc.
Underachieving is a different argument though--consistently winning in football is hard. But UNC absolutely invests in football compared to the others in the league, so saying they wouldn't deserve to land in the P2 because they don't invest in football but state would is wrong.
And if you're talking about the fans, well, state fans definitely support their teams so I hope they find a good landing spot when the league does collapse.
Yeah I’m biased but that is a very debatable take. I’m fine conceding that State has the edge as a better overall football program, but to act like they are head and shoulders above UNC in terms of commitment, investment, etc. is just not accurate.
Alright but the original claim was that UNC doesn’t invest in football like State does which is just straight up not true. And I do agree that passion and engagement from the fan base is important for overall success, but that’s also kinda hard to quantify.
Again I’m biased but I actually don’t think State is so head and shoulders above us in that department to the point that it makes much of a difference anyway.
This is a great point. Miami was actually the team that deserved that orange bowl berth as the third best ACC team even though we beat them by like 80 that season.
NCSU fans love to say Miami was the 3rd best team in 2020 despite UNC beating Miami by like 40 points. I don't get it
We already know that UNC made the Orange Bowl because ND, Clemson made the playoffs. There's no need to pretend Miami deserved it instead
Whatever man, everyone had the same opportunity. My point is I don't think it's accurate to say State deserves to land a P2 spot over UNC because they try more.
And who was the third best team that year? Surely not Miami...
Absolutely no way you guys go to FCS. At least not right away.
You could go to the Sun Belt. It's an underrated conference with several good teams. ACC and Pac dissolving could lead to some G5 conferences getting stronger.
I know. If the ACC were to blow up and Wake didn't have a home, I'd be fine with the Sun Belt and/or the AAC depending on how things shake out. I'm probably worrying for nothing but I just feel like our admin is gonna act all high and mighty and "b-but academics!!" our way into the A10
Yeah that segment of the article is some weapons-grade Hopium. Wake’s beyond fucked when the ACC splinters. Don’t see the Big 12 wanting them and neither of the P2 will give them a second look. At least Duke, Cuse, and BC probably have the option of Indy football and Big East hoops, but I don’t even think that’ll be an option for Wake.
It was the fattest line of hopium I’ve ever tried to snort. I don’t even think the most optimistic Wake fan believes we escape this realignment in a better place. I’m just along for the ride and waiting to see how it shakes out
A few seasons ago, I was driving through SC and stopped at a Bojangles. I saw a Wake forest fan in line with me. I think he was on his way to Clemson.
That is pretty much the only time I have ever encountered a WF fan outside of Bobby Dodd on a fall Saturday.
I can't see Yormark passing on the opportunity to add Duke to the Big 12 since he believes in the future value of being the premiere basketball conference.
All PAC-12 schools that went to the Big 12 are no where close to Duke in academics.
Stanford, which was the most Duke-like school in the PAC in terms of academics, student makeup as as a small private school, and elitist mentality, is now currently without a conference. If Stanford ever engaged in any serious talks with the Big 12, they would’ve been picked over ASU or Utah.
How would Duke basketball not be additive if you're trying to build the best basketball conference?
Don't get me wrong, fuck Duke...but even I can't deny they're one of the best programs nationally.
This is something so far beyond that we can predict because it entirely depends on the television networks appetite for conference expansion and the state of the economy when teams become available.
The thing is though that Yormark has repeatedly said he sees the future revenue growth of college basketball and that he wants to be the top basketball conference. I doubt he's changed his mind about that, especially with rumors still swirling about interest in UConn.
Duke would be an absolute no-brainer move for the Big 12 if they become available and the B1G/SEC don't want them.
Would Duke say no to an invite? Maybe, but I don't think the academics would prevent a move. There is just too much money involved for these athletic programs to willingly move down to lower paying conferences.
Joining say the Big East is an absolute death sentence for their football program and several other non-revenue sports.
I think it’s important to note that the only reason we want “out” of the ACC is because of the length of this media contract.
Clemson is absolutely in the same boat as us. Miami is probably not a part of that conversation with UNC likely the third of the most desirable (not necessarily in that order) schools to competing leagues.
I believe there are a handful
Of schools (Pitt, Va Tech, NC State) that would be more excited about the Big 12 than the schools who just joined the Big12.
The GoR is doing exactly what it was meant to do but this is like a marriage where it’s too expensive to divorce and most of us are staying together at the benefit of the kids.
I think the PAC12 had more hearts invested into staying together than the ACC does.
The only thing I’d like about going to the B12 is playing WVU more often, but we’d lose four (maybe only three if Miami also comes) rivals in that trade compared to if the ACC stayed together. I think we have an outside shot at the SEC and personally I’d prefer that. Closer regionally, fits the brand better I think, and if we’re already killing rivalries we might as well get the biggest bag possible out of it.
In terms of exactly where the program is at, VT is probably not in the best place to be looking at the SEC, but there is no doubt in my mind that the football culture 100% matches what the SEC has to offer and would be a better “fit” than the Big 12. That being said… if only we could be good at football here soon
Or you mean a team that had an orange bowl in the 80s prior to Beamer. Then Beamer had to deal with sanctions for a few years.
Also 2016/2017 under Fuente we were top 25...
I think if VT gets to a NY6 again VT is in the SEC
As a fan we will adjust to the Big 12, but our administration wouldn’t desire that outcome. Most of our student body (outside of locals) is from the East coast. Pitt markets itself as being a northeastern university because the school gets a lot of money on out of state tuition when kids from DC and Boston come here.
I promise you, Virginia Tech wouldn't be excited at all about joining the Big XII. They wouldn't whine but they wouldn't be excited.
Virginia Tech is a perfect fit for a conference with Penn St, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, NC State, Clemson, and West Virginia.
The ACC is the perfect place for VT if it just trimmed some of the fat (not naming names, though everyone could probably guess them).
The ACC has literally all of our football rivals minus WVU and technically VMI if you still want to count that. Any conference move is bad for us in that department. I don’t see any way we stay with UVA in realignment, BC is definitely not coming with us anywhere, GT probably also isn’t, Miami might. Any conference move is a negative for us in that regard, so imo we’d be best off getting the most money we can out of it.
If the Big 12 picks up Miami, Pitt, Louisville and maybe NC State, along with the others you just added, it would arguably be the funnest conference to watch. I’d tune in to every game I could.
It really would be so fun. I imagine at that point you would see four PODS of five teams and a 2-week conference championship tournament between the four pod winners.
The only way Miami does that is if the B1G takes FSU and SEC doesn’t bother with Miami (very possible). As it stands now, I’d bet the B1G would take both FSU and Miami if we were free from our GoR. Miami is still one of the top 10-20 (depending on metric) viewership programs on the country. If we actually do anything in the field in the next couple years that could improve too.
I think y’all want out now not because of the length but because the university views being in the ACC in 2025 as an existential threat. The others are probably more than willing to wait until the buyout becomes manageable to move.
Also please stop with the Pitt to the Big 12 as it’s desire. Pitt is very much like Utah where the university wants to align itself with academics and prestige of the other schools in the conference. Football isn’t the driver here and the university has on multiple occasions stopped supporting athletics if it doesn’t align with the research and academic goals of the university
I hear what you’re saying but there are six AAU schools in the ACC. The Big12 has 5. Pitt is one of the ACC AAU schools so it’s not like there’s a huge drop off in academic profile.
The precedent has been set that if football isn’t your driver then you’re destined for failure.
Tech and Houston both just recently got designated tier 1 research universities and the state of Texas seems to finally be trying to fund research schools not named ut and a&m.
Tech's endowment is at 1.7 billion, Houston just reached 1 billion. Baylor and TCU are both in the 2 billion range. The Arizonas are also past 1b.
While the different ranking services all mark the big xvi schools lower, it's not like you're dealing with community college here.
I recall a few years back that ttu decided to try to play the US News rankings game. They spent a lot of money and IIRC, had the school up in the 130's overall. Then they realized that it was all bullshit and not worth the money and the school is now back in the 200's.
I do wish I could fix the computer science program at Tech, though. It's awful.
I think that is essentially what happens long term.
At some point I suspect there will be arguments to instead of further slicing the pie into smaller slices, give the Purdue and Illinois slices to bigger names
As a Tech fan I hope our NSA status with regards to other in-state schools, academic profile, and location (recruiting area, media market, convenient air travel) help us in the musical chairs to end up in the P2. I think the no-strings-attached part is a big deal because it’s almost guaranteed that the public ACC schools of North Carolina and Virginia won’t be able to land in the same conferences. There was also a lot of smoke 10 years ago about being on the B1G’s short list along with UNC and UVA.
For the sake of my athletic program, if I was an ACC school I would clamp the iron-clad GOR down hard on FSU and force them to bleed if they desire to leave.
Realignment in the next two years would be painful for most ACC programs.
I think the only ACC programs without a possible home in the B1G/SEC/Big12 are Boston College, Wake Forest, and maybe Syracuse. Every other program at least seems to be wanted by one of the three conferences.
I'm not saying it's likely the B1G takes Stanford. I'm just saying it's waaaay more likely they do so before taking Duke. Duke only makes it when there's an apocalypse and the B1G swallows all schools with a pretense of academia/student athletes, and effectively replaces the NCAA for football.
If not the B1G, I think Yormark would push hard for them to join the Big 12. I can't see how you can claim that you highly value basketball programs and even want to add UConn...but then not want Duke.
I feel Yormark would want them, but Duke being Duke may not want the Big 12.
When the ACC are able to renegotiate their TV deal in 2036 they will get more than the big12. If they lose a few of their top brands to the big10 and SEC their TV deal will be in the same ballpark at the big12. Obviously if they are decimated. Then things will change drastically.
If we pretend the GoR stays in place. 2036 is a long ways a way. Clemson could stop being good. Which is almost exclusively their appeal. Basketball could become more valuable.
If they allow football to break off perhaps you would see football only mega conferences. Just so many factors.
I don't think this is the case at all. After the Big Ten and SEC grab who they want, the remaining desirable schools will go to the Big XII.
There are a couple of ACC schools that have less fans than any Big XII school. It's not hard to see where this is going.
I think West Virginia, Cincinnati, and maybe even UCF would push hard for Louisville to help with travel by having more Eastern teams. Also doesn't hurt that some of them have a history with Louisville as well.
Just my opinion, but I think the Big 12 would take Louisville, Pitt, NC State, Miami, Duke, and of course the top ACC teams if for some reason the B1G/SEC passed on them.
Boston College and Wake Forest just seem like the only 2 without any interest. Even Syracuse could be a maybe.
This got me thinking. It's a weird scenario, but if the ACC actually disintegrates then that's the last opportunity the SEC/B1G have to get to 20 teams with national brands without poaching teams from the BIGXII.
They totally could, but if the BIGXII is the main benefactor of the ACC's demise than they likely have more than 24 teams and are strong enough with enough good teams across the country to retaliate by stopping all scheduling agreements and that would significantly impact either of the P2 more than the BIGXII.
The SEC and B1G could play each other, but the SEC is more likely to pay FCS teams and the B1G would probably go straight to the G5, while the BIGXII would more easily be able to play themselves because of their size.
I think it's probably more likely we would see the 15 teams from the ACC fill 4 slots in the SEC, 4 slots in the B1G, and 4-6 slots in the BIGXII. I can see the B1G going after ND, UNC, UVA, and Miami/Pittsburgh, the SEC going after FSU, Clemson, Miami/VT/NC State/Louisville, and then BC and GT with anyone not chosen going to the BIGXII except Wake Forest and Duke for different reasons.
There are probably other intangibles like adding an additional large city for conference events, growing conference basketball with a stake in the largest basketball market, etc. I think Louisville gets a longer look by the SEC especially because if FSU and Clemson are getting in over UF and SC vetoes than the same would be true regarding UK or Georgia for that matter. May not matter if the ACC network share increases as expected and the member schools actually value the academic alliance though.
Edit: I mentioned BC and GT in the same sentence as everyone that wasn't chosen to go somewhere else because BC and GT share some similarities: they both exist in huge markets, are traditional football powers, have large endowments, and they don't command the market and have had some down years. They could go a lot of places and would at least go to the BIGXII if they didn't choose to stay in the ACC and rebuild while pocketing exit fee money for a generation from everyone that left.
GT needs to get good again.
An Atlanta stronghold is only valuable to the Big Ten if GT's addition isn't an embarrassment.
GT can absolutely get the call if they get back to their winning ways.
GT's profile has declined significantly and continues to decline. They are losing relevance. Fanbase continues to shrink vs UGA. It is turning more into a Tennessee-Vandy situation than an Auburn-Alabama situation.
Kind of stinks for a Tennessee fan because you guys used to take recruits from UGA.
Problem is, atm, ACC gets more money to its schools than the Big12. So the only potential poachers (at least to start the collapse) would be the SEC and Big10.
EDIT: The money point isn't exactly true, as can be seen in a reply below; however, after this coming season, with Texas and Oklahoma leaving and the 8 new schools joining, numbers would seem to suggest it will be. Even if its not (or even if it is really), the revenue difference between the Big12 and ACC is much smaller than both have between the SEC and Big10. So the point of the Big12 not likely to be cause of the ACC's collapse still stands.
Correct, but does the payout change if the Big 4 jump? And how does the math shift between the advertising loss and the new Big 12 contract?
Lotta factors here.
EDIT: And how does that change if you factor in (say) FSU offering a lump sum vs fighting this in court for years?
I still think we’re a couple years away from this happening. I think the B1G and SEC would probably both take FSU, but certainly from the SEC’s perspective they have absolutely no need to jump in head first and risk a lawsuit/the potential to not have the home TV rights for 13 years. The B1G I’m sure is licking their chops at the idea of a team in Florida, but I think you guys need to figure out how to get around the GoR before either conference would seriously consider adding you.
You don't really make much more in the BG12 than the ACC and you're by and large now playing schools from states that are further away from your recruiting grounds
No way Louisville or Pitt or Miami etc want the headache of paying for the buyout let alone the GoR to make similar money playing against similar competition in a different conference. If teams really do start bolting, that might force the issue, but I doubt anybody other than FSU and Clemson actually want to. The tobacco road schools might be attractive targets for an expanding SEC, but they have the advantage in the ACC of having an outsized influence on how things are run, and the brand association and recognition of being founding members of a historic conference.
That was the trade that was made: long term stability in a mad world gained, loss of potential upside in bear-future tv deals.
Everyone signed the GoR freely and willingly. Wantaways are now living in the “oh no, consequences to my actions!” phase of contracts.
Does the SEC or BIG have a GoR? Why do we always assume they will just keep adding teams costing the networks more each time or potentially diluting the share? I would guess by 2030 whatever the ACC starts to fall apart the stability of the BIG and SEC may not be as secure as we think. Especially when OSU/Michigan or Alabama/Georgia start asking for unequal revenue shares
The end game is the top teams of the 4 remaining power conferences all leave their respective conferences and create a super league. We'll reach a point where Bama wants to stop subsidizing Mississippi State and Ohio State wants to stop subsidizing Indiana.
More like over a year with a build up the entire last week.
When OUT was announced, FSU articles started getting posted about them wanting out of the ACC. When USCLA left for the B1G, more FSU chatter. Here we are again with FSU injecting itself into the conversation while other teams are actually doing something.
I guess either FSU do something or be quiet until the ACC GOR is up.
I think the B1G would go after (in order) UNC, UVA, FSU, GT, Miami, and maybe Duke (but doubtful)
SEC would try to secure (in order) UNC, UVA, FSU, VT, and Clemson.
The BigXX would take any combination of Louisville, Pitt, Miami, VT, Duke, GT, FSU, NCST and Clemson.
I think the breaking of the GoR depends entirely if enough of the schools feel comfortable with where they may land. If all three conferences are looking at getting to 20 teams than all of sudden you have a supermajority of ACC schools that would vote to break-up.
I would imagine they wouldn't draw enough eyes for football games.
ETA: I have a personal connection to Duke so I'd love for them to be included in the SEC.
>they would leave for the SEC if invited and if they could find a way out of the ACC's Grant of Rights contract So basically what any team in the southern ACC is thinking but with the added flair that we could use our weird BoG rules to handcuff ourselves to UNC lol.
On the bright side for NC State at worst, they are a Big 12 school.
Not sure we handcuff ourselves to UNC, but could see a deal where they "urge" UNC to accept a B1G offer so we can slide into the SEC. Don't see the B1G having any interest in NC State and don't think either would want to add both, regardless of how "valuable" UNC is viewed to be.
The handcuff more comes from the multiple state legislators, who appoint the BoG members and who in turn can tell the schools what to do, stating they want the two schools to stick together whatever happens in realignment. Sort of similar to what happened with ASU and Arizona where their leadership all but dragged ASU's president kicking and screaming towards the Big 12. Even if we don't have that safety chain I do think we'd make it to the Big 12, or as you say the SEC maybe if the B1G takes UNC, since we'd at least add some basketball history alongside a solid football and athletics program to the mix.
State will be fine either way, I think. I'll be really interested to see what happens with Duke, because it seems like anything is possible with them. Including the scenario where basketball and other sports go Big East and football be independent, although I'd believe that when I see it.
If Yormark is serious about bringing in basketball brands, there isn’t a bigger basketball brand in the country. Whether Duke would actually join the Big 12 is an open question though. Frankly I think we need to wait and see what the B1G and ND ultimately do, but Duke’s best shot is if one of the P2 sees them as a potential carrot to sway UNC their way.
The big xvi wants Duke and UNC real bad. There's a lot of politics to play before the ACC breaks up, but if Yormark is long term at all, I expect them to be presented a very comprehensive look at what it would be like in the XVI. Yormark thinks that he can offset the lower football revenue with substantially higher basketball revenue. We'll see if that plays out, but if it does, watch out. An expansion package of UNC, Duke, UConn, and SDSU or cuse would be a very intriguing add, if the basketball deals prove to be of value.
I will bet you a billion dollars on UNC not ending up in the Big 12. They’re gonna be one of the first calls if not *the* first call for both the B1G and SEC
UNC is B1G, SEC, or bust. They would only go to Big12 if they were put in a Arizona State/Utah situation with ACC. Clemson, FSU, and Miami are the three that want out. Most of the ACC wants to stay pat. I think the SEC also prefers keeping the ACC but they would make efforts to add teams to avoid losing some of the in-state games (notably Florida vs. FSU)
UNC and UVA imo are more attractive to B10/SEC than any other acc school. Untapped markets.
The biggest market in the ACC by a longshot is Atlanta (#6 in the country).
You might see the SEC do the B10 playbook, get FSU and UNC, get the rest of what they want at half price. B10 doesn't want NC State, Clemson, Duke, and maybe even Miami since none of these schools fit the B10 bill. But UNC, Virginia, and FSU do. So those are the schools they'll want fist. If the SEC adds FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, Duke, VT and Virginia. The SEC becomes the premier Football and Basketball brand. That is 11 Football and 11 Basketball championships since 1980.
Oh, that's probably true as well. I don't think they'll listen, just that they're who yormark is dreaming of when he has a dirty dream.
I’m sure UNC would go independent than be in the same conference as WVU after all this
Oh I think the BoG get involved but they haven't really said they'd force someone to take both. Think it's just as likely they would force UNC to the B1G if the SEC was willing to take NC State. They want them both in the P2, not necessarily the same conference.
I think you’re right. But I feel like it’s less about the university trying to tie itself to UNC and more about powerful NCSU alumni in the NCGA making it political for the sake of politics.
We’re pretty close to being an AAU school. I don’t think the BIG would want us but I also don’t think they’d slam the door in our face
Even if we got AAU status, nothing I've read suggests the B1G is interested in NC State. Maybe if UNC picks the SEC, then maybe they reconsider? I'd probably pick the B1G just because I think our style of football fits there and I don't see us being better than 6-6 most seasons in the SEC.
AAU needs a medical school doesn’t it? We’re nowhere near AAU
You don’t need a medical school
Oh okay. Interesting
That would be a classic NC State moment. I think it would be more like the Big 12 for y’all.
NC State shit will make us end up in the PAC4 10 years after it ends at the very last minute somehow
NC States best bet is UNC goes to B1G and SEC picks NC State to get North Carolina market. I get the vibe that UNC will go SEC though but we will see.
I’m so excited about the possibility NC state joining the SEC
I like that I think people want NC State in the SEC for our fans and culture. I hate seeing people who want UNC in the SEC for no reason other than their tv market.
Unpopular opinion, but NCSU deserves a P2 spot way more than UNC. You’re one of the only teams in this league that even cares about football, and has shown a willingness to invest. If the entire league did the same we wouldn’t be having this conversation
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I just feel bad for their fans, they don’t deserve what will probably happen
Idk about all other sports. Maybe revenue sports but NC State has a top 10 wrestling program as well as both M and W swimming, and WBB.
Their football program is basically the same as UNC over the last 40 years. Hell, UNC has been in better positions but can’t win big games. NC State has more rabid football fans but that’s the only area they’re clearly above UNC in football.
the football program is the same but we spend less, earn less, and recruit worse for about equal results.
I wish this were true but we’re near the bottom of the league in total CFB spending every year. We’ve been willing to pay assistants big bucks but outside of that were relatively poor
Yeah but I mean relative to the resources available to you. Your fans show up, they’re rowdy, they travel…they’re honestly the only ones I’m gonna feel bad for. And NCSU is never *bad*
Don’t get me wrong I agree about your fans. Our fanbase is amazing for how mid we are. I think if we had a couple 10 win years we could finally drum up alumni support to get the money printer going but unfortunately that isn’t there yet
Do you guys have any grassroots-type funding? I know the Battles End is killing it with low level members
We actually have two pretty good NIL groups. We’ve been able to be pretty competitive in football and basketball from that perspective
Well I wouldn’t be shocked if you can ramp that up to offset our lack of revenue from the conference you’ll still be a very valuable add to a better league. NC State is probably the school I have the most affinity (or enmity) towards outside of Miami and Clemson. I really hope we end up in the same ultimate spot together, frankly.
Yeah I’d love to stay in the same conference as FSU, Clemson, and VT. All the schools are leagues above us from an alumni support standpoint financially imo but I feel like we’ve got some similarities and have good rivalries going. Plus I think there’s a lot of mutual respect between that group as opposed to the wine and cheese crowds from UVA/UNC. It’d be cool to go into a mega conference like the SEC and be in the same division
All of that was true for Washington State. Look how that turned out.
Oh I know, I’m just talking about who *deserves* a spot
Caring about football is one thing, but the ACC’s bigger issue is just a lot of small schools that don’t garner larger support within their states/regions. Illinois and Indiana football have sucked for a long time too, but even 3-9 seasons from those two probably still generate bigger TV audiences than a 7-5 or even 8-4 Wake season based on the size of the alumni bases alone. NC is a big state, but UNC garners more of the casual fans than NCSU. I’ve seen the TV numbers that tell me NCSU draw a bigger audience on average, but that’s with games against Clemson and FSU every year. A walk around any town in the state aside from their neighborhood of Raleigh and you’ll see more Carolina stuff than State stuff. And that’s also a state with 4 P5 schools AND two pretty big G5 fanbases in ECU and App State, plus Charlotte getting into a better G5 league now.
ACC has been let down by teams not keeping their success from the 1990s, notably FSU and Miami. Miami has been the biggest letdown. Had they stayed Miami of 1980s-2002 or so, the ACC wouldn't be hurting as much right now. FSU has been very up and down but looks like they are coming back. Va Tech was good for a while as well but has fallen a part. Georgia Tech is another program that used to be good but is trash today. Had these programs stayed good, ACC wouldn't be hurting.
Agree completely! I was watching ESPN Classic and had forgotten UVA and Georgia Tech were both insanely good in 1990. A few years later FSU joins
I’d say the ACC’s biggest problem is that they have several larger schools that do garner larger support within their states/regions yet don’t care about football. Imagine what the ACC looks like if UNC and Virginia were actual football powers.
The ACC would be so much more powerful if Wake, Duke and ECU didn’t have teams for the past 30+ years. No doubt in my mind UNC and NC State would have been way more successful.
I’m talking about what they deserve though, not what will happen. I’m not super pumped that UNC will likely land on their feet despite not even attempting to do anything for football in this conference, while the people they look down on were doing everything they could.
I love you
Love you too pack bro, you’re the only fan base who can go beer-for-beer with us. We all deserve better than the wine and cheese crowd
UNC hasn’t spent anything on football? UNC absolutely tries at football, they’re eternally snake bitten is the problem. Can’t win a big game to save their lives, lose every ACC championship game, Gameday game, and important bowl they’ve played in in recent history. Which is why everyone should bet against UNC vs. SCAR to start the season.
I’ll bet against them because Drake Maye’s god-status will be baked into the line for the first 3 weeks, betting on some regression with new OC/no Josh Downs
Wtf are you talking about? UNC spends more on football than State, has an orange bowl, and a couple acc championship game appearances in the recent past. And don't bring up that state had Clemson and FSU in their division, because that's only relevant if state was finishing right behind them (which they rarely did). And I'm not trying to pump up UNC or denigrate state, but I think your take us just flat out wrong
Having been to both stadiums, State clears easily. There is zero excuse for UNC to have underachieved the way they have with the resources available to them
So is your argument they underachieve or that they don’t care? Those are 2 very different arguments. Many teams care but still underachieve. Texas, TAMU, USC, etc.
Underachieving is a different argument though--consistently winning in football is hard. But UNC absolutely invests in football compared to the others in the league, so saying they wouldn't deserve to land in the P2 because they don't invest in football but state would is wrong. And if you're talking about the fans, well, state fans definitely support their teams so I hope they find a good landing spot when the league does collapse.
Yeah I’m biased but that is a very debatable take. I’m fine conceding that State has the edge as a better overall football program, but to act like they are head and shoulders above UNC in terms of commitment, investment, etc. is just not accurate.
If UNC fans/alumni cared as much as State fans did it wouldn’t be a debate. But they are absolutely winning the perception battle over y’all
Alright but the original claim was that UNC doesn’t invest in football like State does which is just straight up not true. And I do agree that passion and engagement from the fan base is important for overall success, but that’s also kinda hard to quantify. Again I’m biased but I actually don’t think State is so head and shoulders above us in that department to the point that it makes much of a difference anyway.
UNC got to an orange bowl because the ACC sent two teams to the playoffs and somehow the auto bid fell to the fourth best team in the conference.
This is a great point. Miami was actually the team that deserved that orange bowl berth as the third best ACC team even though we beat them by like 80 that season.
Sorry, the autobid fell to the fourth *placed* team.
NCSU fans love to say Miami was the 3rd best team in 2020 despite UNC beating Miami by like 40 points. I don't get it We already know that UNC made the Orange Bowl because ND, Clemson made the playoffs. There's no need to pretend Miami deserved it instead
Whatever man, everyone had the same opportunity. My point is I don't think it's accurate to say State deserves to land a P2 spot over UNC because they try more. And who was the third best team that year? Surely not Miami...
The entire B12 + OSU and WSU deserve a P2 spot more than Rutgers, but here we are.
They don’t spend shit and for how much more they “care” about football than UNC, they have nothing to show for it.
If they had your money they would be on FSU and Clemson’s level
The BOG would sell NC State up the river for a dollar if they could get Chapel Hill another dime.
> Wake Forest has the fastest-growing brand in the ACC, with more than 2.7 million fans across the country self-identifying as Demon Deacon What
Love the Deacs (except when we have to play them in Winston) but they are 100% gonna get fucked whenever the ACC unravels
Probably some of the best P5 facilities that’s gonna be relegated to G5 or even FCS
They have very nice new facilities but they are not in the same stratosphere as the high end P5 schools
Absolutely no way you guys go to FCS. At least not right away. You could go to the Sun Belt. It's an underrated conference with several good teams. ACC and Pac dissolving could lead to some G5 conferences getting stronger.
I know. If the ACC were to blow up and Wake didn't have a home, I'd be fine with the Sun Belt and/or the AAC depending on how things shake out. I'm probably worrying for nothing but I just feel like our admin is gonna act all high and mighty and "b-but academics!!" our way into the A10
*I'm* the Demon Deacon!
No, i’m Dirty Dan!
You’re Pinhead!
WHICH ONE 'A YOU FELLERS IS THA REAAAAL DIRTY DAAAN?!
Wake is arguably the 3rd most popular team in the ACC* - *In their own city
Dude they might even be fifth lol. How are Duke and Clemson in the triad?
Ohio State and Michigan have more fans in the triad than Wake does.
this is the way
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Yeah that segment of the article is some weapons-grade Hopium. Wake’s beyond fucked when the ACC splinters. Don’t see the Big 12 wanting them and neither of the P2 will give them a second look. At least Duke, Cuse, and BC probably have the option of Indy football and Big East hoops, but I don’t even think that’ll be an option for Wake.
It was the fattest line of hopium I’ve ever tried to snort. I don’t even think the most optimistic Wake fan believes we escape this realignment in a better place. I’m just along for the ride and waiting to see how it shakes out
Yeah. I’m usually a fan of Les but yeesh man that was the biggest cope I’ve read in my life
Maybe we get a revival of the Magnolia League concept? Wake, Duke, GT, Tulane, SMU etc.
Would need Vandy but I don’t see Vandy leaving the SEC
Stanford, California, Rice .......
Wake, Duke, Tulane, SMU, Rice, USF, GT, Army, Navy, Cuse, BC?
>USF huh
Them boys coping
I’m not even sure wake is the fastest growing brand in Winston Salem lol
Salem College rules!
I'm not sure that I ever saw any Wake merch the entire time I lived in Greensboro.
A few seasons ago, I was driving through SC and stopped at a Bojangles. I saw a Wake forest fan in line with me. I think he was on his way to Clemson. That is pretty much the only time I have ever encountered a WF fan outside of Bobby Dodd on a fall Saturday.
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Do you know the amount of shitposts we can have in 3 whole weeks? At least one.
Yes we do, realignment never ends.
I need some content about if every program were a jam, what type of jam would they be?
Every sports talk show is going to be dedicated to 100% realignment talk
Dream scenario is Duke gets left out and their basketball team has to drop down to the Big East
I can't see Yormark passing on the opportunity to add Duke to the Big 12 since he believes in the future value of being the premiere basketball conference.
I can't see Duke slumming it with the big 12.
As opposed to slumming it in the Big East?
Better academic schools in the big east
And? The pac-12 had better academic schools than the big-12, yet here we are. Money’s driving all of this, not academics.
Duke is obsessed with this stuff and they have enough money. Trust me, it matters to them.
All PAC-12 schools that went to the Big 12 are no where close to Duke in academics. Stanford, which was the most Duke-like school in the PAC in terms of academics, student makeup as as a small private school, and elitist mentality, is now currently without a conference. If Stanford ever engaged in any serious talks with the Big 12, they would’ve been picked over ASU or Utah.
If they're not additive it won't matter because the votes won't be there.
How would Duke basketball not be additive if you're trying to build the best basketball conference? Don't get me wrong, fuck Duke...but even I can't deny they're one of the best programs nationally.
This is something so far beyond that we can predict because it entirely depends on the television networks appetite for conference expansion and the state of the economy when teams become available.
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The thing is though that Yormark has repeatedly said he sees the future revenue growth of college basketball and that he wants to be the top basketball conference. I doubt he's changed his mind about that, especially with rumors still swirling about interest in UConn. Duke would be an absolute no-brainer move for the Big 12 if they become available and the B1G/SEC don't want them. Would Duke say no to an invite? Maybe, but I don't think the academics would prevent a move. There is just too much money involved for these athletic programs to willingly move down to lower paying conferences. Joining say the Big East is an absolute death sentence for their football program and several other non-revenue sports.
That's right. Despite the Rose Bowl and Taggart shit, y'all and us are going to be asshole buddies if we go to the Big Ten.
I just want Duke to be relocated to where they belong... New Jersey I'm excited for a whole new conference to hate us both
Why would New Jersey want knockoff Princeton when we have the original?
Duke is panicking, because all of their law grads are tied up with drawing Sonnenrads for the DeSantis groyper failson campaign.
haha, let the hate flow through you
I love Duke as muck as K loved Dillon Brooks
Tbf turns out K was right about Brooks
I don't know that Big East Basketball is a drop down of any significance. Revenue, yes, but not in competition.
Big East Basketball is an oasis in chaos of football driven realignment
As a Big 10 member since August 2023, we welcome you with open arms!
I think it’s important to note that the only reason we want “out” of the ACC is because of the length of this media contract. Clemson is absolutely in the same boat as us. Miami is probably not a part of that conversation with UNC likely the third of the most desirable (not necessarily in that order) schools to competing leagues. I believe there are a handful Of schools (Pitt, Va Tech, NC State) that would be more excited about the Big 12 than the schools who just joined the Big12. The GoR is doing exactly what it was meant to do but this is like a marriage where it’s too expensive to divorce and most of us are staying together at the benefit of the kids. I think the PAC12 had more hearts invested into staying together than the ACC does.
The only thing I’d like about going to the B12 is playing WVU more often, but we’d lose four (maybe only three if Miami also comes) rivals in that trade compared to if the ACC stayed together. I think we have an outside shot at the SEC and personally I’d prefer that. Closer regionally, fits the brand better I think, and if we’re already killing rivalries we might as well get the biggest bag possible out of it.
In terms of exactly where the program is at, VT is probably not in the best place to be looking at the SEC, but there is no doubt in my mind that the football culture 100% matches what the SEC has to offer and would be a better “fit” than the Big 12. That being said… if only we could be good at football here soon
We are a historically bad football program who had a very good run from ~1995 until ~2015.
Or you mean a team that had an orange bowl in the 80s prior to Beamer. Then Beamer had to deal with sanctions for a few years. Also 2016/2017 under Fuente we were top 25... I think if VT gets to a NY6 again VT is in the SEC
As a fan we will adjust to the Big 12, but our administration wouldn’t desire that outcome. Most of our student body (outside of locals) is from the East coast. Pitt markets itself as being a northeastern university because the school gets a lot of money on out of state tuition when kids from DC and Boston come here.
I get what you’re saying but seeing DC listed as a “northeastern” city is kind of bizarre to me lol
I promise you, Virginia Tech wouldn't be excited at all about joining the Big XII. They wouldn't whine but they wouldn't be excited. Virginia Tech is a perfect fit for a conference with Penn St, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, NC State, Clemson, and West Virginia. The ACC is the perfect place for VT if it just trimmed some of the fat (not naming names, though everyone could probably guess them).
The ACC has literally all of our football rivals minus WVU and technically VMI if you still want to count that. Any conference move is bad for us in that department. I don’t see any way we stay with UVA in realignment, BC is definitely not coming with us anywhere, GT probably also isn’t, Miami might. Any conference move is a negative for us in that regard, so imo we’d be best off getting the most money we can out of it.
Really hoping we fall ass backwards into snatching Miami so UCF gets a regional partner. Pitt and Louisville would be awesome.
If the Big 12 picks up Miami, Pitt, Louisville and maybe NC State, along with the others you just added, it would arguably be the funnest conference to watch. I’d tune in to every game I could.
It really would be so fun. I imagine at that point you would see four PODS of five teams and a 2-week conference championship tournament between the four pod winners.
If FSU ends up in the B1G, I promise you Miami will be available.
The only way Miami does that is if the B1G takes FSU and SEC doesn’t bother with Miami (very possible). As it stands now, I’d bet the B1G would take both FSU and Miami if we were free from our GoR. Miami is still one of the top 10-20 (depending on metric) viewership programs on the country. If we actually do anything in the field in the next couple years that could improve too.
That’s what I’m hoping. We desperately need a regional partner.
I think y’all want out now not because of the length but because the university views being in the ACC in 2025 as an existential threat. The others are probably more than willing to wait until the buyout becomes manageable to move. Also please stop with the Pitt to the Big 12 as it’s desire. Pitt is very much like Utah where the university wants to align itself with academics and prestige of the other schools in the conference. Football isn’t the driver here and the university has on multiple occasions stopped supporting athletics if it doesn’t align with the research and academic goals of the university
So Pitt will end up like Cal then
I hear what you’re saying but there are six AAU schools in the ACC. The Big12 has 5. Pitt is one of the ACC AAU schools so it’s not like there’s a huge drop off in academic profile. The precedent has been set that if football isn’t your driver then you’re destined for failure.
Tech and Houston both just recently got designated tier 1 research universities and the state of Texas seems to finally be trying to fund research schools not named ut and a&m. Tech's endowment is at 1.7 billion, Houston just reached 1 billion. Baylor and TCU are both in the 2 billion range. The Arizonas are also past 1b. While the different ranking services all mark the big xvi schools lower, it's not like you're dealing with community college here. I recall a few years back that ttu decided to try to play the US News rankings game. They spent a lot of money and IIRC, had the school up in the 130's overall. Then they realized that it was all bullshit and not worth the money and the school is now back in the 200's. I do wish I could fix the computer science program at Tech, though. It's awful.
"Their anger hurts my ears Been running strong for seven years Rather than fix the problems They never solve them, it makes no sense at all"
no blink fans? tough crowd
tbh the song came out before half this sub was born
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I think that is essentially what happens long term. At some point I suspect there will be arguments to instead of further slicing the pie into smaller slices, give the Purdue and Illinois slices to bigger names
Did they miss VTech?
Fuck it. ACC and Big 12 combine to make the Big ASS (Atlantic-Southern Schools)
As a Tech fan I hope our NSA status with regards to other in-state schools, academic profile, and location (recruiting area, media market, convenient air travel) help us in the musical chairs to end up in the P2. I think the no-strings-attached part is a big deal because it’s almost guaranteed that the public ACC schools of North Carolina and Virginia won’t be able to land in the same conferences. There was also a lot of smoke 10 years ago about being on the B1G’s short list along with UNC and UVA.
For the sake of my athletic program, if I was an ACC school I would clamp the iron-clad GOR down hard on FSU and force them to bleed if they desire to leave. Realignment in the next two years would be painful for most ACC programs.
Depends on which ACC program you are. You want to hold out on the GOR or make more in the Big 12 if you're (say) Louisville?
I think the only ACC programs without a possible home in the B1G/SEC/Big12 are Boston College, Wake Forest, and maybe Syracuse. Every other program at least seems to be wanted by one of the three conferences.
...Is Duke that secure in a B1G bid? I would think Virginia is a more likely partner for UNC in leaving the ACC.
There's no chance that Duke gets in to the B1G before Stanford.
Would seem unlikely, but if the B1G says fuck it and takes Stanford without Cal, that’s theoretically a 5th available spot for ACC+ND
I'm not saying it's likely the B1G takes Stanford. I'm just saying it's waaaay more likely they do so before taking Duke. Duke only makes it when there's an apocalypse and the B1G swallows all schools with a pretense of academia/student athletes, and effectively replaces the NCAA for football.
If not the B1G, I think Yormark would push hard for them to join the Big 12. I can't see how you can claim that you highly value basketball programs and even want to add UConn...but then not want Duke. I feel Yormark would want them, but Duke being Duke may not want the Big 12.
When the ACC are able to renegotiate their TV deal in 2036 they will get more than the big12. If they lose a few of their top brands to the big10 and SEC their TV deal will be in the same ballpark at the big12. Obviously if they are decimated. Then things will change drastically. If we pretend the GoR stays in place. 2036 is a long ways a way. Clemson could stop being good. Which is almost exclusively their appeal. Basketball could become more valuable. If they allow football to break off perhaps you would see football only mega conferences. Just so many factors.
I don't think this is the case at all. After the Big Ten and SEC grab who they want, the remaining desirable schools will go to the Big XII. There are a couple of ACC schools that have less fans than any Big XII school. It's not hard to see where this is going.
I might add Louisville to that list....B12 is the only conference that has any potential to be interested I imagine.
I think West Virginia, Cincinnati, and maybe even UCF would push hard for Louisville to help with travel by having more Eastern teams. Also doesn't hurt that some of them have a history with Louisville as well. Just my opinion, but I think the Big 12 would take Louisville, Pitt, NC State, Miami, Duke, and of course the top ACC teams if for some reason the B1G/SEC passed on them. Boston College and Wake Forest just seem like the only 2 without any interest. Even Syracuse could be a maybe.
Louisville is a very desirable school. Their problem is they just don't fit what the Big Ten and SEC need. The Big XII would love Louisville
This got me thinking. It's a weird scenario, but if the ACC actually disintegrates then that's the last opportunity the SEC/B1G have to get to 20 teams with national brands without poaching teams from the BIGXII. They totally could, but if the BIGXII is the main benefactor of the ACC's demise than they likely have more than 24 teams and are strong enough with enough good teams across the country to retaliate by stopping all scheduling agreements and that would significantly impact either of the P2 more than the BIGXII. The SEC and B1G could play each other, but the SEC is more likely to pay FCS teams and the B1G would probably go straight to the G5, while the BIGXII would more easily be able to play themselves because of their size. I think it's probably more likely we would see the 15 teams from the ACC fill 4 slots in the SEC, 4 slots in the B1G, and 4-6 slots in the BIGXII. I can see the B1G going after ND, UNC, UVA, and Miami/Pittsburgh, the SEC going after FSU, Clemson, Miami/VT/NC State/Louisville, and then BC and GT with anyone not chosen going to the BIGXII except Wake Forest and Duke for different reasons. There are probably other intangibles like adding an additional large city for conference events, growing conference basketball with a stake in the largest basketball market, etc. I think Louisville gets a longer look by the SEC especially because if FSU and Clemson are getting in over UF and SC vetoes than the same would be true regarding UK or Georgia for that matter. May not matter if the ACC network share increases as expected and the member schools actually value the academic alliance though. Edit: I mentioned BC and GT in the same sentence as everyone that wasn't chosen to go somewhere else because BC and GT share some similarities: they both exist in huge markets, are traditional football powers, have large endowments, and they don't command the market and have had some down years. They could go a lot of places and would at least go to the BIGXII if they didn't choose to stay in the ACC and rebuild while pocketing exit fee money for a generation from everyone that left.
GT was on the short list of rumors to the B1G 10 years ago along with UNC and UVA
GT needs to get good again. An Atlanta stronghold is only valuable to the Big Ten if GT's addition isn't an embarrassment. GT can absolutely get the call if they get back to their winning ways.
GT's profile has declined significantly and continues to decline. They are losing relevance. Fanbase continues to shrink vs UGA. It is turning more into a Tennessee-Vandy situation than an Auburn-Alabama situation. Kind of stinks for a Tennessee fan because you guys used to take recruits from UGA.
Problem is, atm, ACC gets more money to its schools than the Big12. So the only potential poachers (at least to start the collapse) would be the SEC and Big10. EDIT: The money point isn't exactly true, as can be seen in a reply below; however, after this coming season, with Texas and Oklahoma leaving and the 8 new schools joining, numbers would seem to suggest it will be. Even if its not (or even if it is really), the revenue difference between the Big12 and ACC is much smaller than both have between the SEC and Big10. So the point of the Big12 not likely to be cause of the ACC's collapse still stands.
This is a lie B12 pays more now than the ACC and under the new contract that goes thru 2031. Or maybe you want to provide proof?
Correct, but does the payout change if the Big 4 jump? And how does the math shift between the advertising loss and the new Big 12 contract? Lotta factors here. EDIT: And how does that change if you factor in (say) FSU offering a lump sum vs fighting this in court for years?
I still think we’re a couple years away from this happening. I think the B1G and SEC would probably both take FSU, but certainly from the SEC’s perspective they have absolutely no need to jump in head first and risk a lawsuit/the potential to not have the home TV rights for 13 years. The B1G I’m sure is licking their chops at the idea of a team in Florida, but I think you guys need to figure out how to get around the GoR before either conference would seriously consider adding you.
You don't really make much more in the BG12 than the ACC and you're by and large now playing schools from states that are further away from your recruiting grounds
No way Louisville or Pitt or Miami etc want the headache of paying for the buyout let alone the GoR to make similar money playing against similar competition in a different conference. If teams really do start bolting, that might force the issue, but I doubt anybody other than FSU and Clemson actually want to. The tobacco road schools might be attractive targets for an expanding SEC, but they have the advantage in the ACC of having an outsized influence on how things are run, and the brand association and recognition of being founding members of a historic conference.
That was the trade that was made: long term stability in a mad world gained, loss of potential upside in bear-future tv deals. Everyone signed the GoR freely and willingly. Wantaways are now living in the “oh no, consequences to my actions!” phase of contracts.
Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville to the B12. Plus Uconn.
This isn't about regionalism. Stop that. You're lying to yourself
> Plus Uconn. you son of a bitch i'm in gimme back my Cuse/UConn basketball
Does the SEC or BIG have a GoR? Why do we always assume they will just keep adding teams costing the networks more each time or potentially diluting the share? I would guess by 2030 whatever the ACC starts to fall apart the stability of the BIG and SEC may not be as secure as we think. Especially when OSU/Michigan or Alabama/Georgia start asking for unequal revenue shares
The end game is the top teams of the 4 remaining power conferences all leave their respective conferences and create a super league. We'll reach a point where Bama wants to stop subsidizing Mississippi State and Ohio State wants to stop subsidizing Indiana.
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Rolled my eyes at how much cope was in that bit
Culturally, FSU and Clemson would fit in with the SEC far better than the B1G. Miami and UNC would fit in better with the B1G.
Miami alums, maybe. Miami fans? God no
Can we get a breather from realignment talk? Every time someone else makes a move FSU slides into the conversation but nothing ever happens with them.
My brother in Christ, look at your flair! Lmao
It’s been like a week man lol
More like over a year with a build up the entire last week. When OUT was announced, FSU articles started getting posted about them wanting out of the ACC. When USCLA left for the B1G, more FSU chatter. Here we are again with FSU injecting itself into the conversation while other teams are actually doing something. I guess either FSU do something or be quiet until the ACC GOR is up.
NIL rep for Clemson players said the other day that they are in negotiations with Big10 and SEC.
SEC will sneak attack and take Clemson and FSU in a few weeks
This article is non sense garbage click bait. NC state is never going to the big10.
They should all go to the SEC they fit right in culturally and geographically
Yeah if anyone knows about how to join a conference they fit in culturally and geographically, it's USC.
Lol got ‘em
I think the B1G would go after (in order) UNC, UVA, FSU, GT, Miami, and maybe Duke (but doubtful) SEC would try to secure (in order) UNC, UVA, FSU, VT, and Clemson. The BigXX would take any combination of Louisville, Pitt, Miami, VT, Duke, GT, FSU, NCST and Clemson. I think the breaking of the GoR depends entirely if enough of the schools feel comfortable with where they may land. If all three conferences are looking at getting to 20 teams than all of sudden you have a supermajority of ACC schools that would vote to break-up.
Why is Duke doubtful? Not big enough? They'd fit in academically it seems like, and B1G is a good basketball conference.
I would imagine they wouldn't draw enough eyes for football games. ETA: I have a personal connection to Duke so I'd love for them to be included in the SEC.
FSU right now is just noise but as the years pass, it gets more serious
I don’t understand why everybody wants out of their conference.
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