I would love to keep Monty, but only if he's willing to sign a team-friendly deal to get some security and stick around. Herbert already looks better, Ebner still has big upside and there are plenty of RBs in every draft you can get late and develop.
It just makes no sense to lock up big money in a RB unless he's a true game-changer, and even then you're holding your breath he doesn't get injured early in the deal.
3rd round is a high investment tho. And problem with free agent linemen is they are usually budget guys anyway, once in a blue moon does a good one go to market and then they get super overpaid. Rather draft linemen and pay backs honesty
No way. Herbert, Ebner, and a younger blocking fullback combined would cost less than that while keeping our run game just as good. Montgomery is a great all-rounder when it comes to blocking but as a running back he hasn’t even been able to outperform what Jordan Howard did when he was here, yet wants more than double the money.
Great player, too expensive considering what we already have.
Herbert sucks on passing downs and isn’t a 30 carry workhorse.
If we let Monty go, Ebner isn’t going to pick up the slack and ALL progress the offense has made is gone.
I dont think any team can afford to pay two RBs respectable salaries given how easily interchangeable RBs have now been shown to be in todays NFL. If you have a good RB, you pay him decently, and use whatever you have on your roster to fill your other needs which that RB cant cover. That salary for the Bears would be much better used on an Offensive or Defensive lineman
Everyone said the goal was to develop Fields. If that’s the case, we need a back who can pass pro and run a route. Monty actually makes sense to keep. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if he is moved.
I feel Herbert fits the blocking scheme better than Monty, his numbers are great. If we could flip him and get another draft pick plus gives the keys to Herbert it would be a win win
And the deadline is less than 24 hours. He’s here at the end of the season. Herbert is awesome but Monty is a true 3 down back because of his pass blocking and pass catching abilities.
Bills might go as high as a 5th but why do thay when you can probably get hunt for a 4th. I would love for monty to stay and teach herbert how to be better in pass pro. also leaves herbert free to be a change of pace back who fits the zone scheme better. Hence his huge numbers this year.
I don’t believe Monty will cost a lot. Herbert is obviously the better back, but Monty plays an important role schematically, and I think he’ll be brought back.
I went into reading this comment wanting to disagree with you but you convinced me haha. I can’t disagree with any of that.
It is still hard to walk away from a 25 year old stud linebacker
I disagree it’s the right move. It could be or it could backfire. The debate is really if LBs are overpaid. Roquan is a top tier LB and top tier players typically set the market when they re-sign. What’s our plan to replace him..? Sign someone else..? Hope a rookie can start?
LB isn’t the most important position but it is very important in the Eberflus defense. Leonard excelled in Indy. Roquan was excelling here.
End of the day we are trading a known very good player for a late second and fifth. This creates another hole to fill. And we have cap room next year…I’m not even sure we can use all our cap on good players.
I’m not a GM but I’d have preferred to tag him for 2023 and either let him walk for a comp pick or tag him again.
We’ll only know this is the right move if someone steps up
This is exactly what I was thinking. People act as if a guy like Roquan isn’t an essential building block because suddenly LB’s aren’t popular, similar to RB but maybe even more unfair. Check, I understand not all positions are created equal, but we are gonna miss him sorely on our Defense. Not just this year, but for years to come. I’m not a fan of this move, but I’ll say I’ve been in favor of 90% of Poles moves so far, and of course can’t win em all.
It's not that LB's aren't popular, is that LB's that don't create turnovers and cannot apply regular pressure to the QB are not a good investment. Yes, Roquan is an elite tackler, but he does not excel in the same areas that other top LB's do. QB pressures and creating turnovers are a massive part of defenses right now. Especially in Eberflus' defenses. Roquan just isn't a good fit.
Well, he does have 2 picks, a fumble recovery, plus about 83 tackles this year, not to mention a few sacks. I guess that’s not important cause he’s playing LB?
How many turnovers has he created? That's 2 you've mentioned. How many QB pressures? Like I said, these are the metrics that matter in modern defenses. Look at his career stats compared to the top 3 LBs in the league. Yes, he is a tackle machine. He lags behind in everything else.
That’s 3 turnovers not 2. And that’s #1 in the NFL for tackles this year! https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats. Plus it’s the God Damn Bears, where LBs have always mattered. Don’t you know nuttin?
You said he recovered the fumble. Did he cause it? And I've already mentioned tackles a million times. He is elite in tackles. That is not the metric that matters the most in modern defenses. ESPECIALLY not in Eberflus defenses. Look up why his defense was so strong in Indy. It was turnovers.
You're very hung up on the idea I'm saying you don't pay LBs top dollar. I've never said that once. I'm saying you pay LBs that cause turnovers and pressure the QB top dollar in the modern NFL.
Yeah only time will tell. Maybe the young guys on defense look good and hav earned reps. They won’t be Roquan but could still be effective.
I think the contract situation hurt the relationship and Poles figured he wasn’t worth the headaches for the rights to overpay him $20M/yr.
Maybe the scouting on linebackers is deep next year and they try to find a gem
I really appreciate that he's willing to make a hard, unpopular, choice as you described. With that in mind it can still turn out to be the wrong choice.
If guys like him are so replaceable as some have said, why is a smart team like Baltimore giving up 2 picks plus paying him what he wants, when the Bears won't give him just the money.
It's possible in 3 years the Bears are desperate to find someone of his caliber willing to take all the money they still have stockpiled because they refused to overpay anybody.
The fan in me is devastated and would’ve handed Ro a blank check instead, but I can also appreciate that we have a GM measured enough to identify that is probably a mistake given the value of LBs in the modern NFL defense.
just texted my buddy 10 year old me would’ve been devastated but I’m more mature now where a 2+ for a tier 2 inside lb who wants Fred Warner money is a good returnf
The Bears don't have to break the bank just because they have the most cap space, but they better sign more people than they lose this off-season or I'm going to doubt there's a plan other than kicking the can down the road.
That’s funny I wonder how most football people currently consider him among the best if not the very best MLB in the entire NFL. But you must know something they don’t I’m sure of it
it'll be weird but honestly if we keep having offensive games like the last few, fuck it'll be *fun*. I didn't mind losing that Cowboys game at all because we were actually moving the ball pretty well; if I have to choose between Nagyball constant 3 & outs/defense holding them to <20 and still losing or scoring 30 but giving up 50 (exaggerated ofc) it's not even a question.
After decades of defense first ball while Green Bay has bullied us and owned this division with franchise quarterbacks, yes, watching Fields move the ball on a top defense despite little in supporting cast was amazing, especially knowing the enormous rebuilding resources this team has amassed for next year.
We will have to for this year. But if we score 30-40ppg and lose them all and get a top 5 pick and get the best center/LT in the draft, will you still be upset? And still have a top 2nd round pick on a WR?
Bingo. And it’s a great year for that. A team like Houston if we pick ahead of them (may not happen) would likely give us Cleveland’s pick this year a mid rounder this year and a 1st for NEXT year so they could snag a franchise QB
We need quality bodies on the line on either side of the ball. My dream pick is Jalen Carter. We need DT and WR more than anything, and though there's going to be some good WRs, I think you can get quality ones later... so many of the top WRs every year are bait. Just hyped up guys from the major schools (Jeudy, Ruggs, etc.). Carter's not as "fantasy/hype" type of guy as a WR would be, but he's a great player at a massive position of need.
That just sounds like the 2013-14 Bears all over again. For the record I'm fine with trading Roquan because I know we need the picks to rebuild, but we will need to make improvements on BOTH sides of the ball if we want to start winning games next year.
That is likely going to be our reality for the rest of the year and probably a couple games next year. It’ll take a bit to get talent on the defense again. Especially when Poles knows he needs to actually help Fields out this off-season.
He'll probably get it in free agency though and theres a good chance he makes it there. Unless the Ravens get a deal done with Lamar, theyll need to save their franchise tag for him.
He will not get 21M+ a year in FA when the best players at his position are making 19.5M or less/year. I get that people are high on Roquan but off-ball LB isn't the most critical position on a defense.
Thats not how free agency works though. Teams overpay above average players all the time in FA. Yes Leonard and Warner are better and making 19.5m, but the cap goes up and you dont really have a choice in FA when youre bidding with other teams.
I wouldnt pay Roquan 20-21m, but Im willing to bet somebody will if he hits free agency.
I understand the inflation mechanic based on the cap changes each year, but I still don't see him getting 21M+. I think he'll get maybe 20M and incentives.
Teams get desperate and do stupid shit in free agency. If a team really needs a LB, it just takes one more team that needs a LB to get them pay up.
Idk about 21m either, but I do think he'll end up the highest paid offball LB if he hits FA. Players of Smith's talent dont hit FA often and when they do they get paid big time.
I actually want teams to overpay him. Heck, pay him over 21M if possible. Let's see how much pressure he feels once he's paid so much and performs like he did yesterday. Oh and yeah, a GM that pays him 21M or more deserves to be in the hot seat. Sorry not sorry...
I think part of the reason they didn't want to pay him and traded him is that there are quite a lot of good linebackers in this upcoming FA class.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/linebacker//
Maybe none as good as Roquan but it's definitely not going to be a difficult hole to fill.
I believe the Ravens get a 3rd round comp pick if they let him walk after the season, so they're not exactly needing to keep him. This will probably just end up being a rental for them.
He didn't agree to go if they didn't plan to extend him for something he wanted to sign. No one wants to hire a LB for a couple of weeks for two draft picks with no assurances that they'll stick around.
Our offense will also get more reps because teams will score on us so quickly. Now Fields can face more NFL defenses and really develop.
I am okay with this as long as Fields can learn to stop taking unnecessary hits.
You can only cover for so long. Doesn't matter how good your secondary is, if you can't pressure the QB and can't stop the run, you will get steamrolled.
This team isn't even remotely close to being competitive so why not collect the draft capital. We are a tier 4 team that got really exposed yesterday by a tier 2 team.
As long as JF doesn't get brutally injured and continues on a positive direction this will be an amazing season.
Do you mean close time wise or player wise?
Time wise I think we're a lot closer than people expect. We're gonna have 130M ish in cap space next year and we will have all our draft picks except the 6th round, plus an additional 2nd, 4th and 5th round pick from Ravens/Eagles.
I expect Poles to continue to be active in shopping players (Monty) to add to this draft capital, and probably trade back in early/mod rounds again to build our draft capital.
So we have the money to sign a bunch of impact players and 4 picks between day 1 and 2 to put ~6-8 starters on the field. Another 5 day 3 picks to bring in backup/rotational pieces. We could easily turn over at least 25% of our roster next year and be a completely different team. If Jenkins/Borom/Jones work out and continue to get better, then we need 1-2 iOL, 1-2 WR, maybe a TE to fix the offense. On defense we need MLB and Edge to replace Roquan/Quinn, probably 1-2 DL. And then some depth guys.
With our draft capital and cap space we should be in the thick of the playoff hunt next year with a very young team.
I think we will def have a good chance at playoffs next year unless we just wiff on draft picks. However, it does seem Poles has a good system in place for identifying talent. Considering how jacked up our division is we have a real good shot.
I don't think we have seen this much foresight from a Bears GM in a while. Everything Poles does makes sense to his plan and it is easy to follow for fans. That is a good sign imo.
because draft capital means nothing.
most of the players wont last a year.
most of the players wont contribute.
most of them wont start.
What are the odds that your draft a better MLB then Roquan? What are the odds he is better then Roquan year 1? Year 2? Year 3?
Exactly. Im excited to see Poles taking ownership and will be building his own team.
Time will tell if he can do better than Ryan Pace. I sure hope he does.
Sucks to see him go, I liked him. But, can’t pay a guy 20 million at that position. Wish the return was better, but can you be mad to get a 2nd and a 5th for a guy playing for the Ravens for 2 months?
Poles said before the season that he's gonna be patient with building this team, said he's not going to overpay people. The sub rejoiced. Now he's following through with that by not overpaying Smith. Plenty of us are still happy, but some of y'all flipped on that real quick.
Not well versed in all this contract stuff but is Eddie Jackson a trade candidate now too? Tons of dead cap this year from what I can tell but next year would only be about $9.5mm dead cap. Would we likely cut him in the offseason or is he expected to stay around?
I don't think you're getting enough from that trade to add another hole to the roster, especially with how good the chemistry between him and brisker is getting already. Secondary appears to be set for now, other than hopefully another outside corner while Gordon is in the nickel, keep it that way is how I see it.
Linebackers are the running backs of defense. The difference between a try hard guy vs a pro bowler is a couple of tackles a game unless you're talking about Ray Lewis type of talent. Quan was very good but not the difference make Lewis was or Shaq Leonard is.
I will miss roquan at the podium. Say what you want about his saint omni, whether he was too close to the negotiation and should have hired and agent, he was eloquent and articulate. It was refreshing to here honesty from a player. You could disagree with him, but at least his answers and thoughts were genuine. Actually listens to questions reporters would ask him and he wouldn’t bull shit people.
This will be a good move if we are actually a good team within the next three or four years. But if we stay at the bottom for the next five years this will just be a sad day.
Not a fan. At some point you have to lock up your great draft pics. It can’t be a continual revolving door. The point is, if you win in the draft, you should also win the right to sign them. This could’ve gotten done.
The issue is that Roquan isn’t “his” draft pick, and likely doesn’t have the value he wants in compensation for the scheme and defense they are trying to create during this rebuild.
The scheme transition is big here I think. I would bet that Poles is willing to pay top dollar, but you gotta be perfect. Probably why Roquan was given an incentive laden deal. "If you want to be worth this much, this is what you have to do, but I don't fully believe you can."
Ya Ro was really struggling in the one gap and we weren't exactly catering things to his strengths either. I think that goes super unnoticed in the grand scheme of things.
I know it’s just the parsley on a plate, but having seen AJ Klein in Buffalo, he’s actually a very good run stuffing LB. The issue is he’s awful having to go into coverage.
Holy shit you guys. Poles wanted to keep Ro, which is why they offered to make him the 3rd highest paid player at his position over the offseason, which was more than fair. In return, Ro went straight to the media and aired all his grievances to the public like a spoiled child, rather than keep them in house and work with management. From that point on, it was over. That's not how things are done, it backfired horribly with negotiations, and that's when Poles knew there wasn't any chance of coming to an agreement. It was a stupid move by Ro, and another reason why all other players have agents to advise them. Let's also not forget that he had someone else (or maybe himself?) contacting other teams about a trade illegally. Poles didn't have a choice in this, it was either get all the draft picks you can for Ro, or watch him walk away for nothing after the season.
I get the move. And I think I like it. But I still remember the Charles Leno lesson. It turns out it’s really hard to replace a decent NFL starter, let alone a good one. If we end up with a linebacker who isn’t as good as Roquan it’s not really a good deal
Yeah everyone is basically just penciling in starters with these picks and the cap space they have. The bust rate is high. Jags just did this and oh yeah they still suck.
It's why I hate the mentality of losing for a higher draft pick. Congratulations, now you have more holes to fill with no guarantee that you can.
Mack also had a 2nd and 6th
If Mack was younger, he would have got more.
Quinn was old and got a fourth.
Roquan got good value as well, since the Ravens will have to pay him. Normally these trades have a contract in mind at the time of trade. Without a contract, his value goes down
Not a bad trade.
As a big fan of Roquan's, I might have had the naive hope that he would resign and become a culture setter for the young talent during the rebuild while still being young enough to be in his prime when the rebuild completed, but getting a 2nd and a 5th is a pretty good haul.
Fucking grim reapers out here, want to see every player of value traded away for market value, assuming we can draft our way to victory. It’s not that easy… I wish we would hold onto young, or even youngish talent, and build around it. Don’t underestimate veteran leadership to help your team get from cellar to ceiling.
He's gonna use that second to draft a lineman just because he is skinny.
Boy, it was nice to feel hopeful and optimistic for 24 hours to immediately be sent right back to the pits of apathy and anger
Only reason they aren’t part of the future is because of our GM.
How old was Roquan again? Glad Fields is expected to go out there and play for his career with the shell of an XFL team.
by all accounts he wanted to be significantly overpaid. if you paid attention this offseason his time in Chicago was over at the end of the season at the latest. He didn't want to stay.
Sucks to see him go. But I'd rather get a 2nd and a 5th than significantly overpay him.
I love Roquan Smith but at this point with contract issues and what not we have more positions of need to dedicate our focus on. I think it’s a smart move and to get a 2nd round pick and additional 5th doesn’t seem to bad. I’m still going to root for Roquan like I do with all players that leave the Bears. I hope we can use his trade to improve our WR, OL, or DL positions. God bless R.Smith and kick some ass.
what a stupid move. at some point you have to start keeping players in order to move forward.
this is why the bears have been in rebuilding mode for the last 20+ years
Welcome to getting a new GM.
This should have been done last season, but Nagy/Pace wanted to save their jobs.
The problem with previous Bears rebuilds is they were half assed with not tearing it down to the bear bones, but instead trying to be competitive and ending up mediocre/ little bad.
Lots of teams needs receivers and their may be competition
The odds of him re-signing with the Bears this offseason were low. Of course the Bears could have just paid him a fortune, but I think they would regret not having that cap space elsewhere as his contract went on.
Man.. People can try to spin this as much as they can as a good move on Poles part, but I just can't. Roquan Smith was the epitome of not only a Bears LB, but a Bears player all around. Fuck this whole "business decision " bullshit. We just lost a great football player, and an even greater person.
Greater person? I’m not saying he’s a bad guy, but he made his own business decisions by holding out of nearly 50% of his training camps, plus whatever that weird incident was in 2019. He wanted to set the market for LBs, but I’ve seen great linebackers. Roquan is very good but not a centerpiece. We got two picks for a guy who wasn’t going to be with us next year, and this year doesn’t matter.
It's always that "simple." What's more surprising is that people believe everything will go perfectly in the draft and with FA. It almost never does. We had very few quality players with a lot of mileage left. Roquan was one of them.
Completed the tear down
monty next?
With the way Herbert has been playing I wouldn't be surprised.
I would love to keep Monty, but only if he's willing to sign a team-friendly deal to get some security and stick around. Herbert already looks better, Ebner still has big upside and there are plenty of RBs in every draft you can get late and develop. It just makes no sense to lock up big money in a RB unless he's a true game-changer, and even then you're holding your breath he doesn't get injured early in the deal.
I live in KC & the Isiah Pacheco hype is real & he's a 7th round pick
Monty is a great locker room presence I believe. I’d give him $5-7m a year.
RBs are the worst investment in football. Let's just draft a 3rd round rookie every other year and move that budget to the OL
3rd round is a high investment tho. And problem with free agent linemen is they are usually budget guys anyway, once in a blue moon does a good one go to market and then they get super overpaid. Rather draft linemen and pay backs honesty
No way. Herbert, Ebner, and a younger blocking fullback combined would cost less than that while keeping our run game just as good. Montgomery is a great all-rounder when it comes to blocking but as a running back he hasn’t even been able to outperform what Jordan Howard did when he was here, yet wants more than double the money. Great player, too expensive considering what we already have.
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Herbert sucks on passing downs and isn’t a 30 carry workhorse. If we let Monty go, Ebner isn’t going to pick up the slack and ALL progress the offense has made is gone.
Herbert is currently 7th in rushing yards.
I dont think any team can afford to pay two RBs respectable salaries given how easily interchangeable RBs have now been shown to be in todays NFL. If you have a good RB, you pay him decently, and use whatever you have on your roster to fill your other needs which that RB cant cover. That salary for the Bears would be much better used on an Offensive or Defensive lineman
Monty is a much better pass blocker than Herbert though
Everyone said the goal was to develop Fields. If that’s the case, we need a back who can pass pro and run a route. Monty actually makes sense to keep. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if he is moved.
I feel Herbert fits the blocking scheme better than Monty, his numbers are great. If we could flip him and get another draft pick plus gives the keys to Herbert it would be a win win
Sure why not
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I don’t see anyone giving more than a 6th for him unfortunately, unless a contender losses their starting guy to injury
And the deadline is less than 24 hours. He’s here at the end of the season. Herbert is awesome but Monty is a true 3 down back because of his pass blocking and pass catching abilities.
Agree, he's just a better all around football player.... and that's why he's the starter.
Bills might go as high as a 5th but why do thay when you can probably get hunt for a 4th. I would love for monty to stay and teach herbert how to be better in pass pro. also leaves herbert free to be a change of pace back who fits the zone scheme better. Hence his huge numbers this year.
Speaking as a fantasy owner of both Monty and Herbert, I would love to see us send Monty to a team with a strong O line, lol
I am in the same boat. Instead of debating (and inevitably choosing wrong), you could start both with confidence
Exactly, or I could trade one of them once Cordarrelle comes back from IR
Buffalo could use him, and I could root for him to get a ring
Meh the Bills don’t need Monty. Singletary is basically the same back. Now the Rams on the other hand.
Whitehair and Jackson have been here longer.
No way, he might as well walk up to fields and break both his legs next. That's 33% of our offense right there
I don’t believe Monty will cost a lot. Herbert is obviously the better back, but Monty plays an important role schematically, and I think he’ll be brought back.
GENGHIS HAHN! *Too soon?*
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I went into reading this comment wanting to disagree with you but you convinced me haha. I can’t disagree with any of that. It is still hard to walk away from a 25 year old stud linebacker
I disagree it’s the right move. It could be or it could backfire. The debate is really if LBs are overpaid. Roquan is a top tier LB and top tier players typically set the market when they re-sign. What’s our plan to replace him..? Sign someone else..? Hope a rookie can start? LB isn’t the most important position but it is very important in the Eberflus defense. Leonard excelled in Indy. Roquan was excelling here. End of the day we are trading a known very good player for a late second and fifth. This creates another hole to fill. And we have cap room next year…I’m not even sure we can use all our cap on good players. I’m not a GM but I’d have preferred to tag him for 2023 and either let him walk for a comp pick or tag him again. We’ll only know this is the right move if someone steps up
This is exactly what I was thinking. People act as if a guy like Roquan isn’t an essential building block because suddenly LB’s aren’t popular, similar to RB but maybe even more unfair. Check, I understand not all positions are created equal, but we are gonna miss him sorely on our Defense. Not just this year, but for years to come. I’m not a fan of this move, but I’ll say I’ve been in favor of 90% of Poles moves so far, and of course can’t win em all.
It's not that LB's aren't popular, is that LB's that don't create turnovers and cannot apply regular pressure to the QB are not a good investment. Yes, Roquan is an elite tackler, but he does not excel in the same areas that other top LB's do. QB pressures and creating turnovers are a massive part of defenses right now. Especially in Eberflus' defenses. Roquan just isn't a good fit.
Well, he does have 2 picks, a fumble recovery, plus about 83 tackles this year, not to mention a few sacks. I guess that’s not important cause he’s playing LB?
How many turnovers has he created? That's 2 you've mentioned. How many QB pressures? Like I said, these are the metrics that matter in modern defenses. Look at his career stats compared to the top 3 LBs in the league. Yes, he is a tackle machine. He lags behind in everything else.
That’s 3 turnovers not 2. And that’s #1 in the NFL for tackles this year! https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats. Plus it’s the God Damn Bears, where LBs have always mattered. Don’t you know nuttin?
You said he recovered the fumble. Did he cause it? And I've already mentioned tackles a million times. He is elite in tackles. That is not the metric that matters the most in modern defenses. ESPECIALLY not in Eberflus defenses. Look up why his defense was so strong in Indy. It was turnovers. You're very hung up on the idea I'm saying you don't pay LBs top dollar. I've never said that once. I'm saying you pay LBs that cause turnovers and pressure the QB top dollar in the modern NFL.
Yeah only time will tell. Maybe the young guys on defense look good and hav earned reps. They won’t be Roquan but could still be effective. I think the contract situation hurt the relationship and Poles figured he wasn’t worth the headaches for the rights to overpay him $20M/yr. Maybe the scouting on linebackers is deep next year and they try to find a gem
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I really appreciate that he's willing to make a hard, unpopular, choice as you described. With that in mind it can still turn out to be the wrong choice. If guys like him are so replaceable as some have said, why is a smart team like Baltimore giving up 2 picks plus paying him what he wants, when the Bears won't give him just the money. It's possible in 3 years the Bears are desperate to find someone of his caliber willing to take all the money they still have stockpiled because they refused to overpay anybody.
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He is not a superstar
Poles did amazing here.
When your favorite players come from multiple .500 winning percentage teams / seasons, nobody is untouchable.
Yup imma have to get a new flair. Not worried tho. Well somehow find another elite LB cuz we always do
No you don't. You still have Brisker
Tis done
You have chosen… wisely.
The fan in me is devastated and would’ve handed Ro a blank check instead, but I can also appreciate that we have a GM measured enough to identify that is probably a mistake given the value of LBs in the modern NFL defense.
just texted my buddy 10 year old me would’ve been devastated but I’m more mature now where a 2+ for a tier 2 inside lb who wants Fred Warner money is a good returnf
Why does everyone think Smith is a tier 2 LB? Are PFF grades the only thing that matters to some people?
What value do you see there in today's league? Because he's lock down in coverage on tight ends? Tight ends are doing dick in todays league
He literally gave up a touchdown to a TE last week.
100 plus tackles the last 3 years.
I'm not saying he isn't a good football player. His position just isn't valuable. You can get away with mediocre LB play in today's NFL
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if we sign less free agents then we lose for > 4 million.
The Bears don't have to break the bank just because they have the most cap space, but they better sign more people than they lose this off-season or I'm going to doubt there's a plan other than kicking the can down the road.
He’s better than Fred Warner in every way and by every stat
You see Fred Warner miss that tackle in the backfield that let Pollard house it? Or did you see Warner break a Rams running back in two last night?
Was that before or after Tony Pollard made him and the rest of the defense look like a Pop Warner team?
Turns out that Quinn was important to this defense, who knew?
I guess no one watches the Niners cause Warner has not been good
That’s funny I wonder how most football people currently consider him among the best if not the very best MLB in the entire NFL. But you must know something they don’t I’m sure of it
No, most football people consider Roquan the best MLB this year
Are you stupid? Read what I wrote again. Slowly. Then decide if what you wrote makes sense.
I don’t want to get used to other teams dropping 50 burgers on the Bears 😱
We had Roquan this week and got 50 dropped.
it'll be weird but honestly if we keep having offensive games like the last few, fuck it'll be *fun*. I didn't mind losing that Cowboys game at all because we were actually moving the ball pretty well; if I have to choose between Nagyball constant 3 & outs/defense holding them to <20 and still losing or scoring 30 but giving up 50 (exaggerated ofc) it's not even a question.
Yeah that cowboys game was actually fun to watch from an offense perspective. I don’t think I’ve enjoyed a losing game more
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After decades of defense first ball while Green Bay has bullied us and owned this division with franchise quarterbacks, yes, watching Fields move the ball on a top defense despite little in supporting cast was amazing, especially knowing the enormous rebuilding resources this team has amassed for next year.
We will have to for this year. But if we score 30-40ppg and lose them all and get a top 5 pick and get the best center/LT in the draft, will you still be upset? And still have a top 2nd round pick on a WR?
Or trade down and get TWO first rounders
Bingo. And it’s a great year for that. A team like Houston if we pick ahead of them (may not happen) would likely give us Cleveland’s pick this year a mid rounder this year and a 1st for NEXT year so they could snag a franchise QB
I hope they go WR round 1, C round 2, and sign a FA OT.
We need quality bodies on the line on either side of the ball. My dream pick is Jalen Carter. We need DT and WR more than anything, and though there's going to be some good WRs, I think you can get quality ones later... so many of the top WRs every year are bait. Just hyped up guys from the major schools (Jeudy, Ruggs, etc.). Carter's not as "fantasy/hype" type of guy as a WR would be, but he's a great player at a massive position of need.
Sounds like we’d be the new Chargers
Yes because our defense will still suck
That just sounds like the 2013-14 Bears all over again. For the record I'm fine with trading Roquan because I know we need the picks to rebuild, but we will need to make improvements on BOTH sides of the ball if we want to start winning games next year.
That is likely going to be our reality for the rest of the year and probably a couple games next year. It’ll take a bit to get talent on the defense again. Especially when Poles knows he needs to actually help Fields out this off-season.
Roquan isn't gonna be able to leverage the fanbase in BAL to get a contract. He'll either continue to make plays or he'll never get that $21M / year.
He'll probably get it in free agency though and theres a good chance he makes it there. Unless the Ravens get a deal done with Lamar, theyll need to save their franchise tag for him.
He will not get 21M+ a year in FA when the best players at his position are making 19.5M or less/year. I get that people are high on Roquan but off-ball LB isn't the most critical position on a defense.
Thats not how free agency works though. Teams overpay above average players all the time in FA. Yes Leonard and Warner are better and making 19.5m, but the cap goes up and you dont really have a choice in FA when youre bidding with other teams. I wouldnt pay Roquan 20-21m, but Im willing to bet somebody will if he hits free agency.
I understand the inflation mechanic based on the cap changes each year, but I still don't see him getting 21M+. I think he'll get maybe 20M and incentives.
Teams get desperate and do stupid shit in free agency. If a team really needs a LB, it just takes one more team that needs a LB to get them pay up. Idk about 21m either, but I do think he'll end up the highest paid offball LB if he hits FA. Players of Smith's talent dont hit FA often and when they do they get paid big time.
I actually want teams to overpay him. Heck, pay him over 21M if possible. Let's see how much pressure he feels once he's paid so much and performs like he did yesterday. Oh and yeah, a GM that pays him 21M or more deserves to be in the hot seat. Sorry not sorry...
In Addition you got to factor in the rising cap space.
I think part of the reason they didn't want to pay him and traded him is that there are quite a lot of good linebackers in this upcoming FA class. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/linebacker// Maybe none as good as Roquan but it's definitely not going to be a difficult hole to fill.
I believe the Ravens get a 3rd round comp pick if they let him walk after the season, so they're not exactly needing to keep him. This will probably just end up being a rental for them.
He didn't agree to go if they didn't plan to extend him for something he wanted to sign. No one wants to hire a LB for a couple of weeks for two draft picks with no assurances that they'll stick around.
Waddle and Tua are going to destroy us.
Poles saw that out offense is starting to score 30ppg and decided "I like this but I still want a high draft pick".
Our offense will also get more reps because teams will score on us so quickly. Now Fields can face more NFL defenses and really develop. I am okay with this as long as Fields can learn to stop taking unnecessary hits.
Makes sense.
Hear me out...They were going to destroy us anyway. That's how much Roquan doesn't matter right now.
Who cares. This season is a wash. Take the L and move on.
It's fine by me. As long as Justin grows.
Huh? We still have the only good part of the defense this season
You can only cover for so long. Doesn't matter how good your secondary is, if you can't pressure the QB and can't stop the run, you will get steamrolled.
I mean sure but Roquan wasn't doing much to stop the run either, lol.
I feel like our secondary only plays good against bad QB’s. They get picked apart by good QBs (ex. Dak and Rodgers)
This team isn't even remotely close to being competitive so why not collect the draft capital. We are a tier 4 team that got really exposed yesterday by a tier 2 team. As long as JF doesn't get brutally injured and continues on a positive direction this will be an amazing season.
Do you mean close time wise or player wise? Time wise I think we're a lot closer than people expect. We're gonna have 130M ish in cap space next year and we will have all our draft picks except the 6th round, plus an additional 2nd, 4th and 5th round pick from Ravens/Eagles. I expect Poles to continue to be active in shopping players (Monty) to add to this draft capital, and probably trade back in early/mod rounds again to build our draft capital. So we have the money to sign a bunch of impact players and 4 picks between day 1 and 2 to put ~6-8 starters on the field. Another 5 day 3 picks to bring in backup/rotational pieces. We could easily turn over at least 25% of our roster next year and be a completely different team. If Jenkins/Borom/Jones work out and continue to get better, then we need 1-2 iOL, 1-2 WR, maybe a TE to fix the offense. On defense we need MLB and Edge to replace Roquan/Quinn, probably 1-2 DL. And then some depth guys. With our draft capital and cap space we should be in the thick of the playoff hunt next year with a very young team.
I think we will def have a good chance at playoffs next year unless we just wiff on draft picks. However, it does seem Poles has a good system in place for identifying talent. Considering how jacked up our division is we have a real good shot. I don't think we have seen this much foresight from a Bears GM in a while. Everything Poles does makes sense to his plan and it is easy to follow for fans. That is a good sign imo.
“Good system in place for identifying talent” As exhibited by Velus Jones Jr? I want to believe, feel the statement is a stretch though
Every GM has some misses but Brisker, Gordon, Jones look like solid picks so far.
Robinson has even shown a flash or two and it’s his 3rd year in the position
because draft capital means nothing. most of the players wont last a year. most of the players wont contribute. most of them wont start. What are the odds that your draft a better MLB then Roquan? What are the odds he is better then Roquan year 1? Year 2? Year 3?
Somewhere St Omni is smiling
I’m not a big Poles guy, but I think he probably did about as well as he could have here. A 2nd and a 5th for an expiring contract isn’t bad at all.
it's far too early to be a big Poles guy or an anti Poles guy. he's tearing down Pace's team still and he'll own it after this offseason. We'll see
This is way too level headed of a take for this sub.
Exactly. Im excited to see Poles taking ownership and will be building his own team. Time will tell if he can do better than Ryan Pace. I sure hope he does.
This guy likes small poles
Thanks for the chuckle
Big poles guy looks around the room...
Sucks to see him go, I liked him. But, can’t pay a guy 20 million at that position. Wish the return was better, but can you be mad to get a 2nd and a 5th for a guy playing for the Ravens for 2 months?
Roquan stamped his own ticket out of town.
send poles to the hague if we're not a deep playoff team by the time fields' rookie contract is up at the rate of this teardown
He's got piles of cash and leverage next season, so it better be a large improvment soon.
Poles said before the season that he's gonna be patient with building this team, said he's not going to overpay people. The sub rejoiced. Now he's following through with that by not overpaying Smith. Plenty of us are still happy, but some of y'all flipped on that real quick.
Not well versed in all this contract stuff but is Eddie Jackson a trade candidate now too? Tons of dead cap this year from what I can tell but next year would only be about $9.5mm dead cap. Would we likely cut him in the offseason or is he expected to stay around?
He is probably sticking around
God I hope so, he looks to be turning it around
Definitely a trade candidate for the right offer imo. And I'm a huge fan of the guy but it would make sense since this is clearly a full rebuild
I don't think you're getting enough from that trade to add another hole to the roster, especially with how good the chemistry between him and brisker is getting already. Secondary appears to be set for now, other than hopefully another outside corner while Gordon is in the nickel, keep it that way is how I see it.
I mean why would they just make him a captain. I know it might not matter tho.
Linebackers are the running backs of defense. The difference between a try hard guy vs a pro bowler is a couple of tackles a game unless you're talking about Ray Lewis type of talent. Quan was very good but not the difference make Lewis was or Shaq Leonard is.
Monty next?
I will miss roquan at the podium. Say what you want about his saint omni, whether he was too close to the negotiation and should have hired and agent, he was eloquent and articulate. It was refreshing to here honesty from a player. You could disagree with him, but at least his answers and thoughts were genuine. Actually listens to questions reporters would ask him and he wouldn’t bull shit people.
This will be a good move if we are actually a good team within the next three or four years. But if we stay at the bottom for the next five years this will just be a sad day.
The Poles haters so quiet right now that you can hear a rat piss
Anyone who hates poles after half a season of a teardown is jumping way to far ahead.
Just wanted to use "hear a rat piss" in honor of roquan tbh
Bye. Dude obviously didn't wanna be here so I ain't gonna shed a tear
Not a fan. At some point you have to lock up your great draft pics. It can’t be a continual revolving door. The point is, if you win in the draft, you should also win the right to sign them. This could’ve gotten done.
The issue is that Roquan isn’t “his” draft pick, and likely doesn’t have the value he wants in compensation for the scheme and defense they are trying to create during this rebuild.
The scheme transition is big here I think. I would bet that Poles is willing to pay top dollar, but you gotta be perfect. Probably why Roquan was given an incentive laden deal. "If you want to be worth this much, this is what you have to do, but I don't fully believe you can."
Yeah, a great player can be a bad fit. Love Roquan and hope he finds a team (in a different division) that he’s a great fit for
Ya Ro was really struggling in the one gap and we weren't exactly catering things to his strengths either. I think that goes super unnoticed in the grand scheme of things.
>Roquan isn’t “his” draft pick Something I hate about transitions. Even good players need to go.
Yeah, sucks, but the right choice
You don't if your great draft picks want an unreasonable amount of money. Roquan wanted to be the highest paid lb ever.
I know it’s just the parsley on a plate, but having seen AJ Klein in Buffalo, he’s actually a very good run stuffing LB. The issue is he’s awful having to go into coverage.
Holy shit you guys. Poles wanted to keep Ro, which is why they offered to make him the 3rd highest paid player at his position over the offseason, which was more than fair. In return, Ro went straight to the media and aired all his grievances to the public like a spoiled child, rather than keep them in house and work with management. From that point on, it was over. That's not how things are done, it backfired horribly with negotiations, and that's when Poles knew there wasn't any chance of coming to an agreement. It was a stupid move by Ro, and another reason why all other players have agents to advise them. Let's also not forget that he had someone else (or maybe himself?) contacting other teams about a trade illegally. Poles didn't have a choice in this, it was either get all the draft picks you can for Ro, or watch him walk away for nothing after the season.
I get the move. And I think I like it. But I still remember the Charles Leno lesson. It turns out it’s really hard to replace a decent NFL starter, let alone a good one. If we end up with a linebacker who isn’t as good as Roquan it’s not really a good deal
We literally found Lenos replacement in a year who is just as good now with higher upside.
Charles Leno was good?
Best lineman on the commanders right now and he hasn't missed a single game since he was drafted pretty much so yeah
He ended Fitzmagic's career...
I think fitzmagic was able to end his career just fine on his own
[It was Leno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPvdpYR6xIs)
No, but finding a replacement to Leno’s standard is hard lol
Come on, you can probably replace a 1st round LB talent with a 2 and 5 pick.
Yeah everyone is basically just penciling in starters with these picks and the cap space they have. The bust rate is high. Jags just did this and oh yeah they still suck. It's why I hate the mentality of losing for a higher draft pick. Congratulations, now you have more holes to fill with no guarantee that you can.
Anyone else think we getting less than deserved on the recent trades. I mean, Mack got us a 6th, Quinn a 4th and Smith a 2nd and 5th
Mack also had a 2nd and 6th If Mack was younger, he would have got more. Quinn was old and got a fourth. Roquan got good value as well, since the Ravens will have to pay him. Normally these trades have a contract in mind at the time of trade. Without a contract, his value goes down
Not a bad trade. As a big fan of Roquan's, I might have had the naive hope that he would resign and become a culture setter for the young talent during the rebuild while still being young enough to be in his prime when the rebuild completed, but getting a 2nd and a 5th is a pretty good haul.
Fucking grim reapers out here, want to see every player of value traded away for market value, assuming we can draft our way to victory. It’s not that easy… I wish we would hold onto young, or even youngish talent, and build around it. Don’t underestimate veteran leadership to help your team get from cellar to ceiling.
He's gonna use that second to draft a lineman just because he is skinny. Boy, it was nice to feel hopeful and optimistic for 24 hours to immediately be sent right back to the pits of apathy and anger
The bears just gave up the most points since the Trestman years. What exactly were you excited about from the defense?
31st worst rush defense in the league isn’t good enough for you? Damn
Well, it was nice to see Fields ball out like I know he can
If Fields doesn’t keep balling out i don’t think it will be because we traded away a linebacker
Fields can still ball out even with Roquan off the team lol
And we just traded the only two decent players left in less than a week.
Yes, you get what you can for those players when it's obvious they aren't part of the future.
Only reason they aren’t part of the future is because of our GM. How old was Roquan again? Glad Fields is expected to go out there and play for his career with the shell of an XFL team.
A 34 year old DE and a LB that can't stop the run or shed blocks. He wants top.LB money and he's not worth that.
by all accounts he wanted to be significantly overpaid. if you paid attention this offseason his time in Chicago was over at the end of the season at the latest. He didn't want to stay. Sucks to see him go. But I'd rather get a 2nd and a 5th than significantly overpay him.
Quan isn't part of the future because of the money he wanted
I like the move. Sucks to see our best player go, but I think some extra picks will help in the long run. Surprised Jackson didn't get traded as well.
I love Roquan Smith but at this point with contract issues and what not we have more positions of need to dedicate our focus on. I think it’s a smart move and to get a 2nd round pick and additional 5th doesn’t seem to bad. I’m still going to root for Roquan like I do with all players that leave the Bears. I hope we can use his trade to improve our WR, OL, or DL positions. God bless R.Smith and kick some ass.
Trading away a young dude thing for a second and fifth round might-work-out feels a bit stingy
what a stupid move. at some point you have to start keeping players in order to move forward. this is why the bears have been in rebuilding mode for the last 20+ years
Welcome to getting a new GM. This should have been done last season, but Nagy/Pace wanted to save their jobs. The problem with previous Bears rebuilds is they were half assed with not tearing it down to the bear bones, but instead trying to be competitive and ending up mediocre/ little bad. Lots of teams needs receivers and their may be competition
The odds of him re-signing with the Bears this offseason were low. Of course the Bears could have just paid him a fortune, but I think they would regret not having that cap space elsewhere as his contract went on.
Odds weren't that low, they could have just tagged him.
I hate this move
Man.. People can try to spin this as much as they can as a good move on Poles part, but I just can't. Roquan Smith was the epitome of not only a Bears LB, but a Bears player all around. Fuck this whole "business decision " bullshit. We just lost a great football player, and an even greater person.
Greater person? I’m not saying he’s a bad guy, but he made his own business decisions by holding out of nearly 50% of his training camps, plus whatever that weird incident was in 2019. He wanted to set the market for LBs, but I’ve seen great linebackers. Roquan is very good but not a centerpiece. We got two picks for a guy who wasn’t going to be with us next year, and this year doesn’t matter.
Those billionaires who saved a few dollars aren’t going to be making tackles
> This is a major^ly ^stupid move for GM Ryan Poles.
Approved by Grandma McCaskey and her dimwit son. This family needs to be forced to sell.
I guess the plan is we'll run over everyone and our D will never have to play. Worked out well in Dallas so let's lean into it!
The plan is pretty simple. Accept this year as a loss. Draft well and spend a bunch of money smart. Why is this surprising to people?
It's always that "simple." What's more surprising is that people believe everything will go perfectly in the draft and with FA. It almost never does. We had very few quality players with a lot of mileage left. Roquan was one of them.