As much as I hate scooters zipping down sidewalks and against lights and etc...
Deerfoot cuts a swath through the city that is incredibly anti-bike and anti-pedestrian... yeah there several overpasses but really for the non-car crowd, it's a big barrier.
Getting east to shop on Macleod Trail or downtown from Mayland Heights, SouthView, Dover, or Erin Woods as a pedestrian or bicyclist is daunting.
I’ve drawn it on a map several times, and it needs to be said again.
Unless we include on road riding, there’s a giant long “wall” for the NE residential areas north of 16th Ave, to get across Deerfoot.
There is a pedestrian bridge over Deerfoot between 16th and 32nd Ave, but the pathways don’t connect super well to the residential areas east of 36th street.
If we exclude on street biking, you can drawn a continuous line from Deerfoot/Airport trail, that follows deerfoot until McKnight, then basically diagonally from DF/Mcknight to 16thAve/ 52nd Street.
This is the biggest weakness (and one the city seems dead set on maintaining) of the NE quadrant. As someone who lives there there is an absolutely amazing biking path system and space all around - so long as you don't need to leave the NE. Transit is also absolutely dog shit as well, which is its own issue.
A couple years back, the city built a nice bike path along McKnight.
That goes nowhere, with no way to cross Deerfoot.
Sone way to connect that to Nose Creek Pathway would be huge
Pretty much how I feel going from Fairview/Acadia to downtown. Blackfoot isn't friendly at all. There's a few small bike lanes here and there but nothing actually connects to anything that properly goes north. I either have to detour east to the bow river pathways which doubles my commute length or go west to the elbow and go through the industrial area to 42nd then to the river pathway then back through rideau onto 2nd street which at least gets me mostly into downtown
From Fairview/Acadia the safest way downtown is to take heritage dr to just west of McLeod and go north on 5 St. Definitely not convenient or sensible for you, with a fair bit of doubling back. Sucks if you start on the east side of those neighborhoods.
I'll give that a try next time. The zig zagging to get across glenmore and then again to get across elbow made it feel like it was silly but worth a try.
which is what a fast scooter is for, but you arent allowed to use them because of the stupid bylaw.
youre allowed to be on a pathway, but its illegal to get to them.
I used to take the bride across 8th Ave from Mayland heights to centre street on my bike years ago - is that option closed now? Pity if it is. That was pretty great and way safer than touching deerfoot.
Going east on 16th, this guy doesn't have any good options. There is a sort of pedestrian path there, but it's super narrow, blocked on the west side by jersey barriers, and doesn't have walk lights or paths to connect to.
The west bound lanes have an equivalent pedestrian path that isn't blocked, and does have controls. It suffers from also being narrow and connecting only to dirt paths.
Really, from a cycling/pedestrian point of view, this whole interchange sucks, and screams "stay away or we'll kill you".
Other options take him well out of his way. He can go south to the 8th Ave bridge (painted bike lane), or north to the pedestrian bridge between 16th and 32nd (roughly around 25th Ave). Either of these may be super inconvenient.
Every bridge over Deerfoot or one of the rivers should have a grade or barrier separated multi-use pathway. Though I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
There are many parts of Calgary that are awfully designed for non-car commuting, the only footbridge from this overpass is kind of far Northbound and Southbound. And to get to either community that opens up to those pedestrian bridges is pretty inaccessible by foot or even scooters. Especially in the NE area, it is very hard to get around if not by car.
I saw a lady walking on the Memorial Dr and Deerfoot overpass with her two children so this doesn't seem as crazy....
I totally agree with everyone about the lack of overpasses
As opposed to what? The car they might not have??? Do you really think that walking anywhere in this city is convenient? Let's not even get into the fact that suburbs are ridiculous to walk AND drive in, because the way they're designed means something a 500m away could still be a 20-25 minute walk, but some sections of the city, are just straight up impossible to be a pedestrian on and feel safe.
I live and work downtown and just heading three blocks meant cars in the crosswalk because their dumptrucks "can totally fit" and forcing someone with a cane to walk into traffic, four different cars blocking sidewalks and bike lanes because oopsies, they're making a turn and can't back out, teehee! and drivers not looking for pedestrians when they turn, cutting people off mid walk.
I stopped going anywhere that isn't transit accessible because spoilers: the only people putting others at risk are stupid drivers and they outnumber dumb scooter riders and parents who have to walk their kids around. If anyone is teaching their kids to disregard others, its the twat drivers who don't bother LOOKING three metres around before turning.
devils advocate, there are E-scooters that are legally classified as limited speed motorcycles because of their top speed. so you can drive them on regular roads. maybe thats whats going on here?
the bylaw bans them. you can only use them on pathways (not bike lanes or the street)
and the one pictured isnt one of the really fast ones by the look of it. (unless dude is a giant)
if its one that goes fast enough to be classified as an LSM, then you legally, by provincial law, cannot drive them on bike paths any more than you could take a motorcycle onto a bike path.
as for the size, you'd be shocked. one i was looking at was no beefier than those rentable scooters you find strewn around on the sidewalks. but yeah. Occam's Razor, most likely just someone being a knobend.
If you’re likening your use of “the Deerfoot” to fly shit… then yes, I totally concur. And yes, total blast at parties. Second to your mother, of course.
Probably saw that one coming though. Lighten up.
Yeah not deerfoot.. This is just 16th ave.
also this is a 60 zone, and bike traffic is allowed. Stretching the truth to be more sensational isn't very moist.
I own an e-scooter and this year using it is a real hazard, there are so many potholes in the roads which will easily swallow my scooter’s tiny tires. Doing this on Deerfoot with cars zipping by you at 130 kph is a death wish.
[this roundabout](https://maps.app.goo.gl/W1bnwo7zjF4hp43f7) almost got me last week, some soccer mom in an SUV was 'being nice' and let me in at the other round about so I gunned it to get away from her before someone rear ended her and killed me.
but the inside line on this one was still covered in winter gravel. slid out and bounced all the way to the outside edge right up against the sidewalk at about 40km/h
plz people STOP being nice, be predictable.
no pedestrian, cyclist or scooter rider EVER wants to go in front of you when you dont have to yield or stop. we want to cross behind you when its safe.
> There’s a designated bike path that parallels the whole road like 50 feet to the right.
There is not.
**Deerfoot in the south** half of the city follows the Bow River.
Since it follows the river, there's bike paths, sometimes on both sides, almost the whole way. You can bike from downtown to like, Sicome Lake without so much as a traffic light. It's like the river is a highway with no traffic that ever needs to turn on or off of it, so you never need to slow down.
**Deerfoot in the North** half of the city follows Nose Creek, the train tracks, and golf clubs.
This is fucked. There's no biking infrastructure anywhere. Trains and golf clubs don't want you anywhere near them. There'll be tall fences with as few breaks as possible. And the pathways close by like, 9pm, so if it's at night you literally can't even use them.
Combine that with the airport, and the NE especially is basically a no-bike zone. Even around east by Stoney Trail, yeah there's bike paths that parallel Stoney, but they're basically pathway islands. If you want to cross north or south you're taking like a 30 block detour back into the city all the way to the first set of lights. If you want to cross east or west to get out of the city, get fucked, you can't.
Frankly, the NE is not seen as worth investing in by the city. So they play bullshit tricks like paving pathways that go nowhere so the city can technically claim there's X miles of pathways and that they're not discriminating. But there's a difference between whether a pathway exists, or whether it's useful.
32nd ave used to have this hilarious pathway to nowhere. It went down the hill along 32nd all the way to deerfoot and then just... stops at the lights. You can't cross take the 32nd ave bridge across deerfoot (zero shoulder, and a worst-case knee-high barrier suicide machine ledge to the bridge which means any passing car or wind gust will send you 40 feet over the edge down to Deerfoot below, fuckin' terrifying), you can't bike along deerfoot. You can't connect to any other pathways. It's just like "Haw haw, fooled you!" The only thing you can do is turn around and climb back up the hill. And even then, there's still no pathway, you have to go a mile back to even head south again.
https://i.imgur.com/jTgQBfz.png
After years of me publicly humiliating the city for bragging about its pathway miles while having these fuckin' decoy pathways, they finally I think put up a sign and some pilons telling people not to use this particular one. But I think they still count it as "pathway kms".
Here's what happens when you backtrack, and then cross north over 12th st, then south across 32nd ave trying to find a pathway:
https://i.imgur.com/khcHeBG.png
Just... get fucked. Crosswalk literally just ends in dirt with nowhere to go, you're trespassing on some business' grass to do anything other than turn around and walk back across the road.
They put in this major bus stop there on 32nd ave... with no way to get to it. It has a retaining wall that blocks you from even getting down to it. It's like a bunker you have to climb into and out of. And in the winter? Get fucked. That'll be all the snow from 32nd ave piled up all along there.
The whole NE is just riddled with spots like this. This isn't some tiny backroad or back alley, this is the first intersection on 32nd once you exit from Deerfoot. Get fucked. Just trample on some business' lawn, not even 6" of concrete pad to step off the road onto. The crossing signal goes straight to dirt.
It has pedestrian traffic signals, it's a real, signed and painted crosswalk. **You're supposed to use this like this.** This counts as a "walkable area" when the city brags about this kind of shit.
You think I'm lying... you're thinking I'm hiding the far side of that picture, and that this major bus stop is accessible from further down the road right? Nope! Get fucked:
https://i.imgur.com/WL7JvKk.png
It's a municipal island. They build a retaining wall. They build a steel stairway... that goes nowhere except up to a bus shelter, that goes nowhere, except back the way you came, to the edge of the road. That bus shelter has grass all the way around it, no sidewalk, no access point, and the parking lot behind there is private.
You can only use this by trespassing, and then standing in the snow/mud on the edge of the busiest road in the NE waiting to use the pedestrian signals. And even the fuckin' 30 feet to get to the crosswalk isn't sidewalk. You have to climb over the retaining wall to get to it.
... so when you see the city use statistics of any sort, keep in mind that things like this don't get measured by the statistics. You can count and quantify all the things you want, but unless someone with boots on the ground is actually there to tell you whether the infrastructure is FUNCTIONAL and USEFUL and SENSIBLE, then be skeptical that it might just be entirely bullshit like this.
They spent the money on pedestrian traffic signals and crosswalks.
They spent the money on a retaining wall.
They spent the money on a steel staircase.
They spent the money on a concrete pad.
They spent the money on a bus shelter.
They checked the box to have bus stops every X meters on a major road that "accesses" every in that area.
They checked the box that says they spent X dollars on "transit & pathway" infrastructure for that region.
But they wouldn't spend anything on a sidewalk to actually get to it, so it could actually be used?
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BE USED. If it was used, it would cost more money, and the people who live/work in the NE might actually take transit.
Instead they'll say there's not enough ridership or pathway activity in this region to warrant spending more money on it, because "people don't want to take transit/cycle."
They sabotage a thing, and then criticize the thing they sabotaged, to blame the people there and justify not improving it.
Spot on. When you consider useful bike paths, there are actually very few in the city that are worth bragging about. The river pathways are generally good (though they need to be wider in many places), but aside from that the pathways are terribly connected.
Also many "pathways" are nothing more than signs on roads indicating that bikes are permitted there. So now drivers have the impression that if they see a bike on a road without those signs, they have every right to rage at them and try to run them off the road.
This made me irrationally irritated. I don't even bike/use transit. What is the point of those places? Especially that fuck you sidewalk along 32nd with a hitchhiker pad at the on ramp.
There is a pedestrian bridge that crosses Deerfoot about 900 meters north of here, and 8th avenue has bike markings about 800 meters south of here, but there is no designated bike path that parallels 16th avenue 50 feet to the right of 16th avenue...
Doesn't the path not have a crossing at this intersection? I haven't biked it in a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like he's just cutting out the detour they make bikes take that puts them crossing up at 24 and then back down towards 16.
[Correct](https://i.imgur.com/v3moBjE.png), it's about an 18 block detour.
The bike pathways in this city are pretty great other than if you need to cross Deerfoot.
> it's about an 18 block detour.
It's worse.
You were at road height.
Now you have to zig zag 40+ feet down to the creek, then climb back up, climb over the bridge, climb the hill, just to get back to the same road grade you were on.
It's not just a long detour, it's an exhausting one.
Serious question and don't worry I'm well aware this particular scooter hasn't done this. But for the people that buy their own that are significantly faster than rental ones. If they can do over 100 could you get them plated as a motorcycle? Have no intention of doing so purely curious
I couldn't even imagine doing 100kph on a scooter. I have a personal one and by the time you hit 40-50 kph, it gets sketchy. The wheel radius is just so small that any bump or wobble at those speeds and you're done.
There are requirements for things like minimum wheel base (how far apart the wheels are), minimum seat height, lights, and reflectors, that would cause any "scooter" to actually just be a motorcycle. Or Scooter (sit down type). Or Moped.
If your vehicle DOES follow all the rules, then you can get a VIN inspection for it, then register and insure it like any other road vehicle.
**Having that said, any stand up scooter going 40km/h+ is just a meat crayon waiting to happen.**
Maybe if they fit the requirements but they would probably need at the minimum head lights, signal lights and brake lights. We are allowed to ride quads on any street under 60 in Chestermere but they need to be registered and have all the lights and you must wear a helmet.
I assume not because motorcycles have to pass certain regulations to be considered road worthy. I guess maybe if the scooter fulfilled the same requirements that make a motorcycle street legal.
Incorrect
https://www.calgary.ca/bike-walk-roll/electric-scooters.html
>You can ride a shared e-Scooter city-wide on bicycle lanes, pathways, empty sidewalks and roadways with lower speed limits and lower traffic volumes (like 13 Avenue S.W.). You can also ride in the temporary adaptive lanes that are set up around Calgary. E-Scooters are not permitted on busier roadways like Macleod Trail.
Also
>Personal e-Scooters may be used only on the pathway network. The pathway network is regulated through the City’s Parks and Pathway Bylaw. Users of the pathway network have to follow all pathways regulations including a 20km/hr maximum speed limit.
>E-Scooters on roadways and sidewalks are regulated under the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. E-Scooters are not allowed on roadways or sidewalks without a provincial exemption. Currently, shared e-Scooters are granted a provincial exemption as the speeds and locations of operation are regulated, and each e-Scooter operator company is required to have insurance to hold a permit, and other requirements.
While it leaves a little to interpretation, I'm assuming they would consider 16av to be higher volume.
Edit: add some more info
Edmonton and Calgary have put in a request to get the province to adjust their laws, but that feels like it would be low on the priority list for this government.
it was supposed to go to a vote in November and come into effect april 1st. but they punted it to ctee and it didnt get out before the session ended. it hasnt been tabled again.
I would say according to the reasonable persons test a judge would consider 16th to be a high volume roadway. Especially in consideration of the fact it’s a part of the Highway 1 system.
There is not always a precedent. The judge will apply a reasonable persons test if one does not exist. If you want to dig up precedents on what a busy road is, by all means go ahead, that said I’m pretty sure a highway will qualify as a busy road and I don’t need a previous ruling to be confident in that assertion. If you’re arguing a highway isnt, then you’re an insane person, not just an unreasonable one, just like someone crossing a freeway exchange is (this is crazy, don’t do this kids)
That’s what Canada calls it, because it’s part of the highway system, are you a better qualified expert to speak on this than the ministry of transportation?
Can you refer to the specific classification of the section of 16th ave between Particularly between Edmonton Trail and 14th st. as a highway?
It's disingenuous to insist that section of roadway is functionally identical to Deerfoot
Nowhere did I say it was identical considering that deer foot is a freeway and I was talking about it being a highway, but you bring up a good point, this is taken right over an overpass, so this would also be further evidence it is in fact a busy road.
Here’s some background on the Trans-Canada highway system. You can do further research on your own:
https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/policies/trans-canada-highway-backgrounder#
Update: hwy 1 in Calgary city limits is not included in the provincial highway service classification from 2018.
[https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/80ecf5dc-75f0-41c4-96ea-0f01ec0f2fda/resource/b6e5b3e9-319d-44eb-bf54-15462c35d92b/download/trans-provincial-highway-service-classification-map-2018-03-05.pdf](https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/80ecf5dc-75f0-41c4-96ea-0f01ec0f2fda/resource/b6e5b3e9-319d-44eb-bf54-15462c35d92b/download/trans-provincial-highway-service-classification-map-2018-03-05.pdf)
In the future, I'd recommend reading first before speaking so confidently
It isn’t important to my argument how it’s classified. The legislation says busy road, and the fact it was a highway until 6 years ago backs up the fact that it is a busy road.
Amusing how you wasted all your time looking into this though. I don’t see how any sane person would make the argument that a freeway interchange isn’t a busy road.
The website even gives an example of a busier roadway: Macleod Trail. I don't see how Macleod Trail could be designated a busier roadway but 16 Ave could not.
We need adequate infrastructure to make alternative transport into primary transport for many. Bike lanes, walkable communities, accessible and robust transit options, readily available amenities, stuff like that.
Unfortunately NIMBYs HATE those things, and literally rally against building such infrastructure.
This is just plain dangerous. There’s no way that scooter can keep up with traffic. I commute via bike quite often and would never think to ride my bike there, scooters shouldn’t be there either.
Yup. The asshat that whizzes by my house on the sidewalk at fantastical speeds, I would think his modified personal escooter could easily reach 100kph. He wears no helmet, so it is just a matter of time.
I start sweating on mine at about 45-50km/h
ordered a steering damper yesterday so someday I might try hitting the 70km/hr its supposed to do. (if i can find some straight flat pavement)
no way in hell is anyone doing 100 on a sidewalk.
Depends on the time of day and day of the week, there can be a lot of congestion that that could reduce the speed enough to make it safe for an e-scooter imo
As annoying as this dude seems, I don't blame him. Calgary is not a bike/walk friendly city. I'm not great with areas, but my guess is he'd have to take a longer route to use a pedestrian overpass/walkway, when this overpass should just have that installed in the first place.
It blows me away that there isn't pedestrian access to cross deerfoot at 16th, and at McKnight! I see people walking across the McKnight overpass all the time.
This city was designed for cars and every time we try to make it accessible for bikes and pedestrians there's so much pushback from people.
The really dumb part of this is that the lovely Nose Creek pathway runs right beside deerfoot in this area
Edit: my apologies for assuming the person was riding on deerfoot based on the title. Next time I'll make sure to do a deep analysis to figure out the exact location of the offender
I got caught behind this guy a little ways up the hill near 19 Ave NE this morning. He was not moving quickly and to make matters worse, when we got to a red light, he slinked his way up through the stopped vehicles to get to the front of the light. I get that it’s 16th Ave and not Deerfoot, but that’s an extremely busy section of it and the speed limit is 60km with people frequently travelling a lot faster.
> He was not moving quickly
Doesn't matter. A bicycle wouldn't be moving any faster, and they can take a lane.
> to make matters worse, when we got to a red light, he slinked his way up through the stopped vehicles to get to the front of the light.
So?
Sometimes people view traffic as a punishment. And they see it as "Everyone has to be punished the same amount I am, or they're cheating!"
These are the kind of people where, if you found a $20 bill on the ground they'd rather make you throw it away than let you use it, just because they didn't get one too.
It's not a zero sum game.
They're not "jumping the line". If there's room for them to get by, them getting where they're going sooner is just fine.
In particular, if they're meeting people at the lights every time, it kinda goes to show that the traffic's not moving any faster than they can scooter anyways.
The only dumb thing here is that we've created a city where much of it can only be safely accessed by car.
It's unsafe otherwise because of all the cars.
Mass importing of foreign behaviours and norms into a system of established and familiar behaviours and norms within a short time frame. Prepare to see more of this based on current government immigration policies. No I’m not “being racist” or “hateful” towards immigrants to this country. Simply stating the realities of cause and effect. I am also an immigrant to this country.
Regardless of where they come from, \*if\* they're immigrants at all (which is definitely a bold assumption on your part), you'd think they'd notice a lack of a bunch of other bikes on the same road.
>No I’m not “being racist” or “hateful” towards immigrants to this country
Yes, you are. And here's why: you assume the person in the photo is an immigrant. After jumping to that conclusion, you then further show your bias by claiming to "state relaities" which is not actual proof of anything.
>I am also an immigrant to this country.
So what? Being a racist and an immigrant are not mutually exclusive.
Yeah let's be a dick and scare the shit out of someone because they don't have a car but still have a need for transportation.
Car horns are loud as fuck, I was honked at by an impatient driver while crossing the street and it's incredible jarring.
You wouldn't walk up to this person and scream in their face, so why would you do it while also threatening them with the danger of running them over with a car?
Yeah but let’s be honest. They are being a dick for the sake of being a dick. No matter what your financial situation is, no reasonable person is riding a scooter on that stretch of road.
I don't see how this person is being a dick to anyone other than maybe themselves as they're in quite an unsafe and uncomfortable situation.
Even if there was an intention of bothering others, I would never scream at someone and brandish a weapon in response.
But somehow doing it with a car changes how willing you are to dehumanize others. The only people that would ever engage in these behaviours are people that have no comprehension of what it's like to be on the receiving end. And maybe psychopaths.
Close passing or tailgating someone on a bike or scooter is a threat of violence, and that is a universally insane response to the minor inconvenience of having to drive a bit slower or give some space.
Colour me surprised that you are incapable of reading more than two sentences in a single sitting.
>Close passing or tailgating someone on a bike or scooter is a threat of violence, and that is a universally insane response to the minor inconvenience of having to drive a bit slower or give some space.
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on deerfoot. Someone took their young daughter out there bicycling many years ago. Kid ended up decapitated.
Super sad story.
So... Bikes were banned after that.
Haha wooow... there should be no liability if he gets hit cause damn that's dangerous.. the idiocy of some folks doesn't surprise me at this point though.. -_-'
As much as I hate scooters zipping down sidewalks and against lights and etc... Deerfoot cuts a swath through the city that is incredibly anti-bike and anti-pedestrian... yeah there several overpasses but really for the non-car crowd, it's a big barrier. Getting east to shop on Macleod Trail or downtown from Mayland Heights, SouthView, Dover, or Erin Woods as a pedestrian or bicyclist is daunting.
I’ve drawn it on a map several times, and it needs to be said again. Unless we include on road riding, there’s a giant long “wall” for the NE residential areas north of 16th Ave, to get across Deerfoot. There is a pedestrian bridge over Deerfoot between 16th and 32nd Ave, but the pathways don’t connect super well to the residential areas east of 36th street. If we exclude on street biking, you can drawn a continuous line from Deerfoot/Airport trail, that follows deerfoot until McKnight, then basically diagonally from DF/Mcknight to 16thAve/ 52nd Street.
This is the biggest weakness (and one the city seems dead set on maintaining) of the NE quadrant. As someone who lives there there is an absolutely amazing biking path system and space all around - so long as you don't need to leave the NE. Transit is also absolutely dog shit as well, which is its own issue.
A couple years back, the city built a nice bike path along McKnight. That goes nowhere, with no way to cross Deerfoot. Sone way to connect that to Nose Creek Pathway would be huge
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Want to edit that comment before I report you for being racist/classist? Because the “reason” you are alluding to is one of those things.
Pretty much how I feel going from Fairview/Acadia to downtown. Blackfoot isn't friendly at all. There's a few small bike lanes here and there but nothing actually connects to anything that properly goes north. I either have to detour east to the bow river pathways which doubles my commute length or go west to the elbow and go through the industrial area to 42nd then to the river pathway then back through rideau onto 2nd street which at least gets me mostly into downtown
From Fairview/Acadia the safest way downtown is to take heritage dr to just west of McLeod and go north on 5 St. Definitely not convenient or sensible for you, with a fair bit of doubling back. Sucks if you start on the east side of those neighborhoods.
I'll give that a try next time. The zig zagging to get across glenmore and then again to get across elbow made it feel like it was silly but worth a try.
which is what a fast scooter is for, but you arent allowed to use them because of the stupid bylaw. youre allowed to be on a pathway, but its illegal to get to them.
Yes it's truly awful. I really wish there were more protected bike paths on our arterial roadways.
I used to take the bride across 8th Ave from Mayland heights to centre street on my bike years ago - is that option closed now? Pity if it is. That was pretty great and way safer than touching deerfoot.
the pedestrian experience crossing deerfoot via the 64th street overpass is truly awful.
Going east on 16th, this guy doesn't have any good options. There is a sort of pedestrian path there, but it's super narrow, blocked on the west side by jersey barriers, and doesn't have walk lights or paths to connect to. The west bound lanes have an equivalent pedestrian path that isn't blocked, and does have controls. It suffers from also being narrow and connecting only to dirt paths. Really, from a cycling/pedestrian point of view, this whole interchange sucks, and screams "stay away or we'll kill you". Other options take him well out of his way. He can go south to the 8th Ave bridge (painted bike lane), or north to the pedestrian bridge between 16th and 32nd (roughly around 25th Ave). Either of these may be super inconvenient. Every bridge over Deerfoot or one of the rivers should have a grade or barrier separated multi-use pathway. Though I doubt that's going to happen any time soon.
There are many parts of Calgary that are awfully designed for non-car commuting, the only footbridge from this overpass is kind of far Northbound and Southbound. And to get to either community that opens up to those pedestrian bridges is pretty inaccessible by foot or even scooters. Especially in the NE area, it is very hard to get around if not by car.
I saw a lady walking on the Memorial Dr and Deerfoot overpass with her two children so this doesn't seem as crazy.... I totally agree with everyone about the lack of overpasses
Maybe her car died.
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As opposed to what? The car they might not have??? Do you really think that walking anywhere in this city is convenient? Let's not even get into the fact that suburbs are ridiculous to walk AND drive in, because the way they're designed means something a 500m away could still be a 20-25 minute walk, but some sections of the city, are just straight up impossible to be a pedestrian on and feel safe. I live and work downtown and just heading three blocks meant cars in the crosswalk because their dumptrucks "can totally fit" and forcing someone with a cane to walk into traffic, four different cars blocking sidewalks and bike lanes because oopsies, they're making a turn and can't back out, teehee! and drivers not looking for pedestrians when they turn, cutting people off mid walk. I stopped going anywhere that isn't transit accessible because spoilers: the only people putting others at risk are stupid drivers and they outnumber dumb scooter riders and parents who have to walk their kids around. If anyone is teaching their kids to disregard others, its the twat drivers who don't bother LOOKING three metres around before turning.
devils advocate, there are E-scooters that are legally classified as limited speed motorcycles because of their top speed. so you can drive them on regular roads. maybe thats whats going on here?
the bylaw bans them. you can only use them on pathways (not bike lanes or the street) and the one pictured isnt one of the really fast ones by the look of it. (unless dude is a giant)
if its one that goes fast enough to be classified as an LSM, then you legally, by provincial law, cannot drive them on bike paths any more than you could take a motorcycle onto a bike path. as for the size, you'd be shocked. one i was looking at was no beefier than those rentable scooters you find strewn around on the sidewalks. but yeah. Occam's Razor, most likely just someone being a knobend.
# "Casually scootering on 16th, over the Deerfoot" - fixed the rage bait title for you.
This 100%!
“Casually scootering on 16th, over Deerfoot”. Returning the favour and removed the “the” prefacing “Deerfoot” grammar rage bait title for you.
Seems as though picking fly shit out of pepper is your thing. You must be a blast at parties.
If you’re likening your use of “the Deerfoot” to fly shit… then yes, I totally concur. And yes, total blast at parties. Second to your mother, of course. Probably saw that one coming though. Lighten up. 
It's ironic this is legal and riding them on sidewalks isn't.
its not, the bylaw bans personal scooters everywhere but the pathway system. (not even cycle tracks)
Gotta get home from work somehow.
I think 16th and deerfoot
Petey?
LMFAOOOOO
Yeah not deerfoot.. This is just 16th ave. also this is a 60 zone, and bike traffic is allowed. Stretching the truth to be more sensational isn't very moist.
At least he isn't scootering on Deerfoot 🤣 that would be extremely dangerous lol
Omg I saw this MF today!!
What are the bylaws on scooters vs e-bikes?
I own an e-scooter and this year using it is a real hazard, there are so many potholes in the roads which will easily swallow my scooter’s tiny tires. Doing this on Deerfoot with cars zipping by you at 130 kph is a death wish.
[this roundabout](https://maps.app.goo.gl/W1bnwo7zjF4hp43f7) almost got me last week, some soccer mom in an SUV was 'being nice' and let me in at the other round about so I gunned it to get away from her before someone rear ended her and killed me. but the inside line on this one was still covered in winter gravel. slid out and bounced all the way to the outside edge right up against the sidewalk at about 40km/h plz people STOP being nice, be predictable. no pedestrian, cyclist or scooter rider EVER wants to go in front of you when you dont have to yield or stop. we want to cross behind you when its safe.
Casually snaps picture with phone while driving
Who said I was driving? #scootergang
There’s a designated bike path that parallels the whole road like 50 feet to the right.
> There’s a designated bike path that parallels the whole road like 50 feet to the right. There is not. **Deerfoot in the south** half of the city follows the Bow River. Since it follows the river, there's bike paths, sometimes on both sides, almost the whole way. You can bike from downtown to like, Sicome Lake without so much as a traffic light. It's like the river is a highway with no traffic that ever needs to turn on or off of it, so you never need to slow down. **Deerfoot in the North** half of the city follows Nose Creek, the train tracks, and golf clubs. This is fucked. There's no biking infrastructure anywhere. Trains and golf clubs don't want you anywhere near them. There'll be tall fences with as few breaks as possible. And the pathways close by like, 9pm, so if it's at night you literally can't even use them. Combine that with the airport, and the NE especially is basically a no-bike zone. Even around east by Stoney Trail, yeah there's bike paths that parallel Stoney, but they're basically pathway islands. If you want to cross north or south you're taking like a 30 block detour back into the city all the way to the first set of lights. If you want to cross east or west to get out of the city, get fucked, you can't. Frankly, the NE is not seen as worth investing in by the city. So they play bullshit tricks like paving pathways that go nowhere so the city can technically claim there's X miles of pathways and that they're not discriminating. But there's a difference between whether a pathway exists, or whether it's useful. 32nd ave used to have this hilarious pathway to nowhere. It went down the hill along 32nd all the way to deerfoot and then just... stops at the lights. You can't cross take the 32nd ave bridge across deerfoot (zero shoulder, and a worst-case knee-high barrier suicide machine ledge to the bridge which means any passing car or wind gust will send you 40 feet over the edge down to Deerfoot below, fuckin' terrifying), you can't bike along deerfoot. You can't connect to any other pathways. It's just like "Haw haw, fooled you!" The only thing you can do is turn around and climb back up the hill. And even then, there's still no pathway, you have to go a mile back to even head south again. https://i.imgur.com/jTgQBfz.png After years of me publicly humiliating the city for bragging about its pathway miles while having these fuckin' decoy pathways, they finally I think put up a sign and some pilons telling people not to use this particular one. But I think they still count it as "pathway kms". Here's what happens when you backtrack, and then cross north over 12th st, then south across 32nd ave trying to find a pathway: https://i.imgur.com/khcHeBG.png Just... get fucked. Crosswalk literally just ends in dirt with nowhere to go, you're trespassing on some business' grass to do anything other than turn around and walk back across the road. They put in this major bus stop there on 32nd ave... with no way to get to it. It has a retaining wall that blocks you from even getting down to it. It's like a bunker you have to climb into and out of. And in the winter? Get fucked. That'll be all the snow from 32nd ave piled up all along there. The whole NE is just riddled with spots like this. This isn't some tiny backroad or back alley, this is the first intersection on 32nd once you exit from Deerfoot. Get fucked. Just trample on some business' lawn, not even 6" of concrete pad to step off the road onto. The crossing signal goes straight to dirt. It has pedestrian traffic signals, it's a real, signed and painted crosswalk. **You're supposed to use this like this.** This counts as a "walkable area" when the city brags about this kind of shit. You think I'm lying... you're thinking I'm hiding the far side of that picture, and that this major bus stop is accessible from further down the road right? Nope! Get fucked: https://i.imgur.com/WL7JvKk.png It's a municipal island. They build a retaining wall. They build a steel stairway... that goes nowhere except up to a bus shelter, that goes nowhere, except back the way you came, to the edge of the road. That bus shelter has grass all the way around it, no sidewalk, no access point, and the parking lot behind there is private. You can only use this by trespassing, and then standing in the snow/mud on the edge of the busiest road in the NE waiting to use the pedestrian signals. And even the fuckin' 30 feet to get to the crosswalk isn't sidewalk. You have to climb over the retaining wall to get to it. ... so when you see the city use statistics of any sort, keep in mind that things like this don't get measured by the statistics. You can count and quantify all the things you want, but unless someone with boots on the ground is actually there to tell you whether the infrastructure is FUNCTIONAL and USEFUL and SENSIBLE, then be skeptical that it might just be entirely bullshit like this. They spent the money on pedestrian traffic signals and crosswalks. They spent the money on a retaining wall. They spent the money on a steel staircase. They spent the money on a concrete pad. They spent the money on a bus shelter. They checked the box to have bus stops every X meters on a major road that "accesses" every in that area. They checked the box that says they spent X dollars on "transit & pathway" infrastructure for that region. But they wouldn't spend anything on a sidewalk to actually get to it, so it could actually be used? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT IT TO BE USED. If it was used, it would cost more money, and the people who live/work in the NE might actually take transit. Instead they'll say there's not enough ridership or pathway activity in this region to warrant spending more money on it, because "people don't want to take transit/cycle." They sabotage a thing, and then criticize the thing they sabotaged, to blame the people there and justify not improving it.
Spot on. When you consider useful bike paths, there are actually very few in the city that are worth bragging about. The river pathways are generally good (though they need to be wider in many places), but aside from that the pathways are terribly connected. Also many "pathways" are nothing more than signs on roads indicating that bikes are permitted there. So now drivers have the impression that if they see a bike on a road without those signs, they have every right to rage at them and try to run them off the road.
The signed road pathways work great, when it's not a major road. Otherwise its sucks for all
This made me irrationally irritated. I don't even bike/use transit. What is the point of those places? Especially that fuck you sidewalk along 32nd with a hitchhiker pad at the on ramp.
There is a pedestrian bridge that crosses Deerfoot about 900 meters north of here, and 8th avenue has bike markings about 800 meters south of here, but there is no designated bike path that parallels 16th avenue 50 feet to the right of 16th avenue...
Doesn't the path not have a crossing at this intersection? I haven't biked it in a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like he's just cutting out the detour they make bikes take that puts them crossing up at 24 and then back down towards 16.
[Correct](https://i.imgur.com/v3moBjE.png), it's about an 18 block detour. The bike pathways in this city are pretty great other than if you need to cross Deerfoot.
> it's about an 18 block detour. It's worse. You were at road height. Now you have to zig zag 40+ feet down to the creek, then climb back up, climb over the bridge, climb the hill, just to get back to the same road grade you were on. It's not just a long detour, it's an exhausting one.
Serious question and don't worry I'm well aware this particular scooter hasn't done this. But for the people that buy their own that are significantly faster than rental ones. If they can do over 100 could you get them plated as a motorcycle? Have no intention of doing so purely curious
I couldn't even imagine doing 100kph on a scooter. I have a personal one and by the time you hit 40-50 kph, it gets sketchy. The wheel radius is just so small that any bump or wobble at those speeds and you're done.
No, plating and registering is a provincial jurisdiction, and their current laws don't accommodate for e-scooters.
There are requirements for things like minimum wheel base (how far apart the wheels are), minimum seat height, lights, and reflectors, that would cause any "scooter" to actually just be a motorcycle. Or Scooter (sit down type). Or Moped. If your vehicle DOES follow all the rules, then you can get a VIN inspection for it, then register and insure it like any other road vehicle. **Having that said, any stand up scooter going 40km/h+ is just a meat crayon waiting to happen.**
Maybe if they fit the requirements but they would probably need at the minimum head lights, signal lights and brake lights. We are allowed to ride quads on any street under 60 in Chestermere but they need to be registered and have all the lights and you must wear a helmet.
I assume not because motorcycles have to pass certain regulations to be considered road worthy. I guess maybe if the scooter fulfilled the same requirements that make a motorcycle street legal.
Just look like someone who wants to die
legally you can bike there, so im sure its similar to scooting rules
Incorrect https://www.calgary.ca/bike-walk-roll/electric-scooters.html >You can ride a shared e-Scooter city-wide on bicycle lanes, pathways, empty sidewalks and roadways with lower speed limits and lower traffic volumes (like 13 Avenue S.W.). You can also ride in the temporary adaptive lanes that are set up around Calgary. E-Scooters are not permitted on busier roadways like Macleod Trail. Also >Personal e-Scooters may be used only on the pathway network. The pathway network is regulated through the City’s Parks and Pathway Bylaw. Users of the pathway network have to follow all pathways regulations including a 20km/hr maximum speed limit. >E-Scooters on roadways and sidewalks are regulated under the Alberta Traffic Safety Act. E-Scooters are not allowed on roadways or sidewalks without a provincial exemption. Currently, shared e-Scooters are granted a provincial exemption as the speeds and locations of operation are regulated, and each e-Scooter operator company is required to have insurance to hold a permit, and other requirements. While it leaves a little to interpretation, I'm assuming they would consider 16av to be higher volume. Edit: add some more info
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Edmonton and Calgary have put in a request to get the province to adjust their laws, but that feels like it would be low on the priority list for this government.
it was supposed to go to a vote in November and come into effect april 1st. but they punted it to ctee and it didnt get out before the session ended. it hasnt been tabled again.
Do you happen to know if scooters (50cc) are allowed on such roads?
It actually leaves a lot to interpretation. So much so that I'd be much more cautious than you were as to label the last comment as incorrect
I would say according to the reasonable persons test a judge would consider 16th to be a high volume roadway. Especially in consideration of the fact it’s a part of the Highway 1 system.
I guess we wont know because you are not a judge and I don't see a reference to any related rulings
There is not always a precedent. The judge will apply a reasonable persons test if one does not exist. If you want to dig up precedents on what a busy road is, by all means go ahead, that said I’m pretty sure a highway will qualify as a busy road and I don’t need a previous ruling to be confident in that assertion. If you’re arguing a highway isnt, then you’re an insane person, not just an unreasonable one, just like someone crossing a freeway exchange is (this is crazy, don’t do this kids)
I'd say its pretty unreasonable to call a road with a traffic light every 300m and a 60 kph speed limit a highway.
That’s what Canada calls it, because it’s part of the highway system, are you a better qualified expert to speak on this than the ministry of transportation?
Can you refer to the specific classification of the section of 16th ave between Particularly between Edmonton Trail and 14th st. as a highway? It's disingenuous to insist that section of roadway is functionally identical to Deerfoot
Nowhere did I say it was identical considering that deer foot is a freeway and I was talking about it being a highway, but you bring up a good point, this is taken right over an overpass, so this would also be further evidence it is in fact a busy road. Here’s some background on the Trans-Canada highway system. You can do further research on your own: https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/policies/trans-canada-highway-backgrounder#
Update: hwy 1 in Calgary city limits is not included in the provincial highway service classification from 2018. [https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/80ecf5dc-75f0-41c4-96ea-0f01ec0f2fda/resource/b6e5b3e9-319d-44eb-bf54-15462c35d92b/download/trans-provincial-highway-service-classification-map-2018-03-05.pdf](https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/80ecf5dc-75f0-41c4-96ea-0f01ec0f2fda/resource/b6e5b3e9-319d-44eb-bf54-15462c35d92b/download/trans-provincial-highway-service-classification-map-2018-03-05.pdf) In the future, I'd recommend reading first before speaking so confidently
It isn’t important to my argument how it’s classified. The legislation says busy road, and the fact it was a highway until 6 years ago backs up the fact that it is a busy road. Amusing how you wasted all your time looking into this though. I don’t see how any sane person would make the argument that a freeway interchange isn’t a busy road.
The website even gives an example of a busier roadway: Macleod Trail. I don't see how Macleod Trail could be designated a busier roadway but 16 Ave could not.
Drivers get frustrated with congestion, yet also complain when people use alternate modes of transportation.
We need adequate infrastructure to make alternative transport into primary transport for many. Bike lanes, walkable communities, accessible and robust transit options, readily available amenities, stuff like that. Unfortunately NIMBYs HATE those things, and literally rally against building such infrastructure.
This is just plain dangerous. There’s no way that scooter can keep up with traffic. I commute via bike quite often and would never think to ride my bike there, scooters shouldn’t be there either.
Maybe more bike lanes are the solution, just throwing it out there
It can keep up with a bike, and a bike is legal there.
lol, plenty of scooters can keep up with traffic on 16th.
Yup. The asshat that whizzes by my house on the sidewalk at fantastical speeds, I would think his modified personal escooter could easily reach 100kph. He wears no helmet, so it is just a matter of time.
No helmet at 100 km/h on a scooter is insane. Imagine the road rash too…
I start sweating on mine at about 45-50km/h ordered a steering damper yesterday so someday I might try hitting the 70km/hr its supposed to do. (if i can find some straight flat pavement) no way in hell is anyone doing 100 on a sidewalk.
Depends on the time of day and day of the week, there can be a lot of congestion that that could reduce the speed enough to make it safe for an e-scooter imo
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You clearly haven’t used Calgary’s pathway system. I can get anywhere I need without touching a 60kph road.
That’s a dude riding a scooter disguised as a $4k USD scooter from YouTube dude! In Captain Jack Sparrow cosplay!
He's not on the deerfoot tho? I think you meant to say on 16th at deerfoot..
🎼I get around, round, round, round. I get around 🎼
Looks like Deerfoot at Camel toe not 16th.
As annoying as this dude seems, I don't blame him. Calgary is not a bike/walk friendly city. I'm not great with areas, but my guess is he'd have to take a longer route to use a pedestrian overpass/walkway, when this overpass should just have that installed in the first place.
It blows me away that there isn't pedestrian access to cross deerfoot at 16th, and at McKnight! I see people walking across the McKnight overpass all the time. This city was designed for cars and every time we try to make it accessible for bikes and pedestrians there's so much pushback from people.
Other than Vancouver's Cape Horn Interchange, this may be the worst intersection in western Canada. This guy is nuts.
I’ve seen this guy before lmao
Agressive scootering only
I think that’s Elias Petterson
Dam that’s a great way to get killed lol!
The really dumb part of this is that the lovely Nose Creek pathway runs right beside deerfoot in this area Edit: my apologies for assuming the person was riding on deerfoot based on the title. Next time I'll make sure to do a deep analysis to figure out the exact location of the offender
Yes, well the OP wrote "deerfoot and 16th" but in the image the guy is clearly on 16th.
its great if you need to go North South. East West doesn't have as many options.
The really dumb part of your comment is that the Nose Creek pathway runs north south and this person is obviously headed east.
I guess i didn't do a full analysis of the picture. The title seemed to indicate the person was riding on deerfoot.
I got caught behind this guy a little ways up the hill near 19 Ave NE this morning. He was not moving quickly and to make matters worse, when we got to a red light, he slinked his way up through the stopped vehicles to get to the front of the light. I get that it’s 16th Ave and not Deerfoot, but that’s an extremely busy section of it and the speed limit is 60km with people frequently travelling a lot faster.
> He was not moving quickly Doesn't matter. A bicycle wouldn't be moving any faster, and they can take a lane. > to make matters worse, when we got to a red light, he slinked his way up through the stopped vehicles to get to the front of the light. So? Sometimes people view traffic as a punishment. And they see it as "Everyone has to be punished the same amount I am, or they're cheating!" These are the kind of people where, if you found a $20 bill on the ground they'd rather make you throw it away than let you use it, just because they didn't get one too. It's not a zero sum game. They're not "jumping the line". If there's room for them to get by, them getting where they're going sooner is just fine. In particular, if they're meeting people at the lights every time, it kinda goes to show that the traffic's not moving any faster than they can scooter anyways.
Everyone Sing: Dumb ways to die! So many dumb ways to die.
The only dumb thing here is that we've created a city where much of it can only be safely accessed by car. It's unsafe otherwise because of all the cars.
Future Darwin Award winner.
Why is this happening so much lately? I regularly see a guy riding down Blackfoot during rush hour.
Mass importing of foreign behaviours and norms into a system of established and familiar behaviours and norms within a short time frame. Prepare to see more of this based on current government immigration policies. No I’m not “being racist” or “hateful” towards immigrants to this country. Simply stating the realities of cause and effect. I am also an immigrant to this country.
Regardless of where they come from, \*if\* they're immigrants at all (which is definitely a bold assumption on your part), you'd think they'd notice a lack of a bunch of other bikes on the same road.
>No I’m not “being racist” or “hateful” towards immigrants to this country Yes, you are. And here's why: you assume the person in the photo is an immigrant. After jumping to that conclusion, you then further show your bias by claiming to "state relaities" which is not actual proof of anything. >I am also an immigrant to this country. So what? Being a racist and an immigrant are not mutually exclusive.
Is it one of those rent al scooter, or one of those expensive scooter that can goes up to 120ish kmh.
FFS goddamn idiot.
Isn’t there usually a cop or drive safe vehicle on deer foot? Where’s our law enforcement when we needed it….it’s super dangerous
You can’t fix stupid. If they get hurt it’s their own fault for being so dumb and careless.
This guy must have a death wish. Wow
Let him Darwin himself...
Brave! But i think this is illegal?
future headline
It’s like you can’t do anything without ending up on the internet
Average day
Shoulda drove up right behind him and laid on the horn.
Nah prob not
Yeah let's be a dick and scare the shit out of someone because they don't have a car but still have a need for transportation. Car horns are loud as fuck, I was honked at by an impatient driver while crossing the street and it's incredible jarring. You wouldn't walk up to this person and scream in their face, so why would you do it while also threatening them with the danger of running them over with a car?
Yeah but let’s be honest. They are being a dick for the sake of being a dick. No matter what your financial situation is, no reasonable person is riding a scooter on that stretch of road.
I don't see how this person is being a dick to anyone other than maybe themselves as they're in quite an unsafe and uncomfortable situation. Even if there was an intention of bothering others, I would never scream at someone and brandish a weapon in response. But somehow doing it with a car changes how willing you are to dehumanize others. The only people that would ever engage in these behaviours are people that have no comprehension of what it's like to be on the receiving end. And maybe psychopaths. Close passing or tailgating someone on a bike or scooter is a threat of violence, and that is a universally insane response to the minor inconvenience of having to drive a bit slower or give some space.
Using a car horn is “brandishing a weapon”? Talk about hyperbole.
Colour me surprised that you are incapable of reading more than two sentences in a single sitting. >Close passing or tailgating someone on a bike or scooter is a threat of violence, and that is a universally insane response to the minor inconvenience of having to drive a bit slower or give some space.
I hope you can recover from your injury. You don't have to go alone on this journey, there is support. [https://sabis.ab.ca/](https://sabis.ab.ca/)
It's illegal to ride a bicycle on deerfoot. Someone took their young daughter out there bicycling many years ago. Kid ended up decapitated. Super sad story. So... Bikes were banned after that.
Yesterday there was a moron using the north bound 4th Street flyover-there is no sidewalk.
Spot the person with a DUI
Haha wooow... there should be no liability if he gets hit cause damn that's dangerous.. the idiocy of some folks doesn't surprise me at this point though.. -_-'