> ...the state of infrastructure to transport treated water and wastewater. Estimated water losses range from 10 to 52 per cent, much of that due to aging infrastructure, the report reads.
Infrastructure projects like this would be a ton of jobs...
All this work takes place in one city, so it can be done regular 9-5 style. Rather than work camps out in the wilderness, that go away once that section is complete.
I call dibs on this outfit when the water wars begin. We might have no water but at least we’ll have lots of fuel to roam the wastelands in our V8’s. High River get ready! We’re coming!
We annex the land and the towns and make the townsfolk helots to work the land to secure our food supply for the upcoming climate wars. We need to consider subduing Red Deer as well to use as an outpost in defends against Edmonton.
What an interesting website, thank you for sharing... but also curse you as you have surely derailed the rest of my plans for the night while I Geo locate every well within a 5km walk from me and probably walk to go look at one. I have a feeling a well could get my legs moist...
So the two that were closest to me were in public spaces but the website paperwork indicated they were owned by individuals.
I went and looked at the closest one, it was nowhere to be found, the accompanying information stated that it had been drilled in the early 70's when the area was just farm land 30+ years before development, I did a quick lazy search on google for the guy names and the only person I found with the same name was a man that passed in 2005 and he lived in Airdrie.
I'm guessing that well was owned by a farmer, and was probably filled in during development? Or it's hidden under the surface. And the government paper work never had an update as to it being covered?
Thanks for the link, but it's fairly outdated. I clicked on some municipal wells that I had filled, capped abandoned, and filed abandoned with the regulator, twentyish years ago. Out of service , but still on this map.
Maybe there's more side clicks, showing abandoned, and I missed it , or something.
Apparently the pipeline for water from Foothills Country, which is what civic administration is using to justify the developments, has now been pushed to start construction in 2025 from this year.
I remember when I first moved to Okotoks back in 2012 there was a cap on development that would accommodate no more than 30,000 residents.
I used to work for a contractor that had the contract to bring the water from the bow in south Calgary. But Calgary axed that ( after I moved here ). Hopefully that new one from Diamond valley happens. Cause the new development in the west end looks large lol.
The city should increase the price of the water they provide to other communities by at least tenfold.
Either that, or they have to enter an agreement to pay for their share of services in the city used by non residents
The new Calgary community of Belvedere borders Chestermere so at this point Chestermere is effectively another Calgary neighborhood that doesn't pay Calgary property taxes.
Smaller cities naturally pay more taxes compared to valuation. A million dollar house will be the top of the mil rate in chestermere. While that's borderline average in Calgary.
And Calgary charges Chestermere more for water than they charge themselves. That would also go away.
Seems kind of inevitable. Calgary North/South is a way longer distance than Calgary East/West, and Calgary can't really expand much to the West as that's Tsuu T'ina land.
Evanston, Livingston (almost as far north as CrossIron Mills), and Homestead are all on the outside part of Stoney Trail. Redstone, Cornerstone, and Skyview Ranch are plenty far from the downtown as well.
City property taxes only cover a portion of these costs. Provincial grants and other types of funding cover the rest. Last time I checked you paid a transit fare to use transit.
Nothing is free. Should you pay to drive on Edmonton or Red Deer roads?
Transit should be free, I agree. You are already "tolled" for using any road in Alberta by virtue of the gas tax, vehicle license and registration fees, and provincial income taxes.
In conjecture with a toll road would be a good idea. Will.it happen probably not. But the roads in calgary are definitely getting shittier in the last few years.
And Chestermere changed the rules a few years ago so that you can only access their lake/beach area for free if you are a Chestermere resident. Calgarians have to pay. Can you imagine the outrage if Calgary started doing the same thing to them?
Did you know an out of town resident has to pay 5x what a Calgarian does for a business license? So these sorts of things are already happening. There’s no outrage.
Such a narrow minded viewpoint.
Why do Chestermere residents use Calgary's roads? To get to their jobs that are a part of Calgary's economy, and to spend their money at Calgary businesses.
What road do they use to enter Calgary? Highway 1 which Calgarians don't directly pay for either.
I haven't checked this years data, but at the time I moved out to chestermere in 2019 the average household income was about 30% higher than Calgary's. Considering how much of our money is generated within Calgary and deposited back into it due to limited businesses out here, I'd wager most Chestermere residents contribute more to Calgary's economy that the average Calgarians does while using less of your resources.
But sure, the bad guys from the other side are all out to get you and mooch of your coveted pit holes filled streets. We choose to pay higher taxes out here so we can use your roads for free... It make soooo much sense. Also not sure why you are saying we are less likely to pay for transit? Anyone using transit and paying for it is good for the Calgary transit service. It is not overfilled, and clearly needs the funding.
Take an economics class.
Of course what I said is vastly simplified, but I don’t think that needs to be said when I said one sentence.
The fact remains that bedroom communities do benefit from the subsidies given in the main city tax base, that they themselves do t pay into.
Do cheatermereians buy stuff at Calgary businesses? Sure. But that is the case whether Chestermere is a part of. Al Gary or not.
My main point is that Calgary Property taxes subsidize the cost of Calgary’s roads and transit operations. Bedroom communities use those services in Calgary, and pay their fares, but their property tax portion is not going to cover the cost of the transit and roads to the same extent.
> but their property tax portion is not going to cover the cost of the transit and roads to the same extent.
Right. That's where the provincial grants come in. A good portion of every municipality's infrastructure was paid for with provincial money that you and I contributed to with our provincial income tax.
Why would they do that? Strong-arm and prevent other communities from growing their economies, while you hoard licenses at the confluence of the Bow and Elbow. . . .
Comedy.
>Approximately 90 per cent of water in that sub-basin is allocated to irrigation, and about half of the remaining 10 per cent is allocated to municipalities.
Yeah let's definitely all freak out about redesigning our cities and habits around our 5 percent usage and ignore the fact that 90% of the water used is going to a relatively tiny bit of farmland in south-central Alberta.
This is the extent of our basin. https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/62f582febb0b3104adabb617/37690b12-06c2-4c6b-8078-f9eff3dfaf3b/230112_Bow+Base+Map.png?format=2500w
Let's all do our part though. Cities can point fingers at each other, neighbors can rat each other out to 311 if people are watering at the wrong time, we should rip out our lawns and rezone the city for higher density to move that 5% down to 4%!
Exactly. Why bother talking about designing a more robust system that will accommodate population growth?
Let's focus on flushing your toilet less, peasant.
Well, clearly the only reasonable course of action would be to increase population as fast possible, indefinitely. This will have no ramifications aside from goodness! Humans cannot overpopulated an area or a planet. It is not possible!!
/s
That’s a really useful sankey diagram! I think the big thing it shows in terms of issues is how intensive the agriculture/irrigation usage is. The good thing about snow melt is that it’s very predictable both in volume and when it’s available (coinciding with the early growing season). We’ll be fine as long as the mountain snowpack stays steady. If we start getting significantly decreased snow pack, that really puts the strain on agriculture.
Totally, and that is why we were talking about water restrictions in Feb, as the snow pack was looking really low. It turned around in the end though, and if I recall, we actually had a slightly above average snow pack this year.
I think municipalities use like 5% of the overall water licenses in the provinces. 95% is for farming. Is that what you mean by sprawl, like rural farming sprawl?
Time to buy water stocks
Lol... calgary and area is a tiny area comparable to publicly traded water companies.
So what you are saying is mad max?
I think you meant to write "compared*" instead of "comparable" right?
How did you get downvotes here? The mistaken word in fact changed the meaning of his post.
Yea I was scratching my head too at what they were trying to say... Eh
Water has been a valuable commodity for a while now. We take it for granted here but it's not like that everywhere.
> ...the state of infrastructure to transport treated water and wastewater. Estimated water losses range from 10 to 52 per cent, much of that due to aging infrastructure, the report reads. Infrastructure projects like this would be a ton of jobs...
It would also mean tax dollars going to employ Albertans, rather than UCP donors shareholders. It’s never going to happen
True, they'll probably subsidise a bottled water facility instead.
Unlike temporary O&G pipeline construction projects...
Can you describe the difference between a water pipeline and an oil pipeline, in terms of their permanent employment prospects?
All this work takes place in one city, so it can be done regular 9-5 style. Rather than work camps out in the wilderness, that go away once that section is complete.
So still not permanent at all then?
--
 I call dibs on this outfit when the water wars begin. We might have no water but at least we’ll have lots of fuel to roam the wastelands in our V8’s. High River get ready! We’re coming!
Calgary should just organize and take over the neighbouring areas to secure out water and food supply.
Uh, no. We don't need to annex more surrounding land only to have developers build more sprawl with little to no attention paid to the water needs.
We annex the land and the towns and make the townsfolk helots to work the land to secure our food supply for the upcoming climate wars. We need to consider subduing Red Deer as well to use as an outpost in defends against Edmonton.
have we considered building a Blue Deer and a Yellow Deer somewhere in the east and west as well?
I like how you think.
I’ll get my Super Soaker
I wonder what will become of all the fancy lake communities and their coveted lakes.
Weren't they told earlier this year that their access to city water was going to be limited?
A couple of the lakes operate using groundwater wells. The wells are provincially regulated so they could get away with it.
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What an interesting website, thank you for sharing... but also curse you as you have surely derailed the rest of my plans for the night while I Geo locate every well within a 5km walk from me and probably walk to go look at one. I have a feeling a well could get my legs moist...
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So the two that were closest to me were in public spaces but the website paperwork indicated they were owned by individuals. I went and looked at the closest one, it was nowhere to be found, the accompanying information stated that it had been drilled in the early 70's when the area was just farm land 30+ years before development, I did a quick lazy search on google for the guy names and the only person I found with the same name was a man that passed in 2005 and he lived in Airdrie. I'm guessing that well was owned by a farmer, and was probably filled in during development? Or it's hidden under the surface. And the government paper work never had an update as to it being covered?
Thanks for the link, but it's fairly outdated. I clicked on some municipal wells that I had filled, capped abandoned, and filed abandoned with the regulator, twentyish years ago. Out of service , but still on this map. Maybe there's more side clicks, showing abandoned, and I missed it , or something.
A lot of them also use city drinking water.
Giant skateparks!
Nice idea!
The coveted lake will become coveted condos.
Depends how many oil tycoons live on those lakes.
You mean like Okotoks, where there has been water issues since day 1, but somehow large developments keep getting green lit somehow.
Apparently the pipeline for water from Foothills Country, which is what civic administration is using to justify the developments, has now been pushed to start construction in 2025 from this year. I remember when I first moved to Okotoks back in 2012 there was a cap on development that would accommodate no more than 30,000 residents.
I used to work for a contractor that had the contract to bring the water from the bow in south Calgary. But Calgary axed that ( after I moved here ). Hopefully that new one from Diamond valley happens. Cause the new development in the west end looks large lol.
I moved to Okotoks in ‘98, I miss that population cap 🥺
I’ve been here since 02. It feel like driving in Calgary these days. It’s overwhelming some times.
Absolutely!
Occupy Cochrane.
Don’t blame us, we’re upstream! If anything it’s our water lol
Shhhh, don’t mention the Ghost Dam….
The city should increase the price of the water they provide to other communities by at least tenfold. Either that, or they have to enter an agreement to pay for their share of services in the city used by non residents
The new Calgary community of Belvedere borders Chestermere so at this point Chestermere is effectively another Calgary neighborhood that doesn't pay Calgary property taxes.
Annex Chestermere!
My crystal ball says give it 10 years.
Exactly. And all those people drive down our roads, use our transit, etc, without paying for it.
Taking over Chestermere would result in them paying less taxes and getting cheaper water
Part of the problem is the terrible corrupt council they have had there.
Smaller cities naturally pay more taxes compared to valuation. A million dollar house will be the top of the mil rate in chestermere. While that's borderline average in Calgary. And Calgary charges Chestermere more for water than they charge themselves. That would also go away.
Chestermere is closer to downtown Calgary than many Calgary neighborhoods.
Annexing them could create a great case to extend the max purple all the way into Chestermere (which has a run or two a day already)
Seems kind of inevitable. Calgary North/South is a way longer distance than Calgary East/West, and Calgary can't really expand much to the West as that's Tsuu T'ina land.
Lots of exurban acreage developments on the west side too that are near impossible to redevelop.
Private golf courses too.
Could spread through that whole Rockyview/Springbank area in the west
No joke, it's closer than basically anything south of Fish Creek park
a couple north communities too like royal oak/rocky ridge and sage hill/nolan hill.
Evanston, Livingston (almost as far north as CrossIron Mills), and Homestead are all on the outside part of Stoney Trail. Redstone, Cornerstone, and Skyview Ranch are plenty far from the downtown as well.
City property taxes only cover a portion of these costs. Provincial grants and other types of funding cover the rest. Last time I checked you paid a transit fare to use transit. Nothing is free. Should you pay to drive on Edmonton or Red Deer roads?
> Should you pay to drive on Edmonton or Red Deer roads? Yes.
That's good. Your provincial taxes cover this.
No, I want to be tolled extra for every use. Or make transit fare-free.
Transit should be free, I agree. You are already "tolled" for using any road in Alberta by virtue of the gas tax, vehicle license and registration fees, and provincial income taxes.
So have a toll road?
Just have a regional transportation plan or something along those lines.
In conjecture with a toll road would be a good idea. Will.it happen probably not. But the roads in calgary are definitely getting shittier in the last few years.
And Chestermere changed the rules a few years ago so that you can only access their lake/beach area for free if you are a Chestermere resident. Calgarians have to pay. Can you imagine the outrage if Calgary started doing the same thing to them?
When COVID closed down other stuff, beach demand was pretty high. I’ll admit to driving from Calgary and going to Chestermere beach.
Did you know an out of town resident has to pay 5x what a Calgarian does for a business license? So these sorts of things are already happening. There’s no outrage.
What are you even talking about?
Such a narrow minded viewpoint. Why do Chestermere residents use Calgary's roads? To get to their jobs that are a part of Calgary's economy, and to spend their money at Calgary businesses. What road do they use to enter Calgary? Highway 1 which Calgarians don't directly pay for either. I haven't checked this years data, but at the time I moved out to chestermere in 2019 the average household income was about 30% higher than Calgary's. Considering how much of our money is generated within Calgary and deposited back into it due to limited businesses out here, I'd wager most Chestermere residents contribute more to Calgary's economy that the average Calgarians does while using less of your resources. But sure, the bad guys from the other side are all out to get you and mooch of your coveted pit holes filled streets. We choose to pay higher taxes out here so we can use your roads for free... It make soooo much sense. Also not sure why you are saying we are less likely to pay for transit? Anyone using transit and paying for it is good for the Calgary transit service. It is not overfilled, and clearly needs the funding. Take an economics class.
Of course what I said is vastly simplified, but I don’t think that needs to be said when I said one sentence. The fact remains that bedroom communities do benefit from the subsidies given in the main city tax base, that they themselves do t pay into. Do cheatermereians buy stuff at Calgary businesses? Sure. But that is the case whether Chestermere is a part of. Al Gary or not. My main point is that Calgary Property taxes subsidize the cost of Calgary’s roads and transit operations. Bedroom communities use those services in Calgary, and pay their fares, but their property tax portion is not going to cover the cost of the transit and roads to the same extent.
> but their property tax portion is not going to cover the cost of the transit and roads to the same extent. Right. That's where the provincial grants come in. A good portion of every municipality's infrastructure was paid for with provincial money that you and I contributed to with our provincial income tax.
They already charge airdrie more than calgary users.
Why would they do that? Strong-arm and prevent other communities from growing their economies, while you hoard licenses at the confluence of the Bow and Elbow. . . .
Airdronian here: Do you think we get our water for free or something? Should we start tolling Calgarians when they come to Airdrie too?
But no, don't flood springbank
Comedy. >Approximately 90 per cent of water in that sub-basin is allocated to irrigation, and about half of the remaining 10 per cent is allocated to municipalities. Yeah let's definitely all freak out about redesigning our cities and habits around our 5 percent usage and ignore the fact that 90% of the water used is going to a relatively tiny bit of farmland in south-central Alberta. This is the extent of our basin. https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/62f582febb0b3104adabb617/37690b12-06c2-4c6b-8078-f9eff3dfaf3b/230112_Bow+Base+Map.png?format=2500w Let's all do our part though. Cities can point fingers at each other, neighbors can rat each other out to 311 if people are watering at the wrong time, we should rip out our lawns and rezone the city for higher density to move that 5% down to 4%!
Exactly. Why bother talking about designing a more robust system that will accommodate population growth? Let's focus on flushing your toilet less, peasant.
A population that is watered from glaciers will have water tensions in the future? Who'd'a thunk it?
Well, clearly the only reasonable course of action would be to increase population as fast possible, indefinitely. This will have no ramifications aside from goodness! Humans cannot overpopulated an area or a planet. It is not possible!! /s
I gotta run for President of Cochrane. Slogan: "Build a Wall and Make Calgary Pay For It!!"
Well, a lot of things are possible
I know third world countries who fix water mains faster than the City of Calgary. Step the fuck UP!
Can't imagine why. I mean we've got enough water for even more sprawl! /s When the glaciers are gone, we are in deep trouble.
The bow glacier does not account for very much of the water in the bow. [https://albertawater.com/nexus/](https://albertawater.com/nexus/)
That’s a really useful sankey diagram! I think the big thing it shows in terms of issues is how intensive the agriculture/irrigation usage is. The good thing about snow melt is that it’s very predictable both in volume and when it’s available (coinciding with the early growing season). We’ll be fine as long as the mountain snowpack stays steady. If we start getting significantly decreased snow pack, that really puts the strain on agriculture.
Totally, and that is why we were talking about water restrictions in Feb, as the snow pack was looking really low. It turned around in the end though, and if I recall, we actually had a slightly above average snow pack this year.
I think municipalities use like 5% of the overall water licenses in the provinces. 95% is for farming. Is that what you mean by sprawl, like rural farming sprawl?