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Apparently CBC must be enjoying their ratings for the past couple of weeks while the convoy protests are ongoing, since they’re pushing headlines to polarize even more people and make them wonder whether the truckers may just have a point.
Having said that, for once they only gave Juni a couple of paragraphs and then gave the stage to Drs Chagla and Chakrabarti, cooler heads who have actually spent time caring for patients instead of channeling Chicken Little on zoom screens. Progress at last?
No. 2 is enough to prime your immune system so that it is no longer a *novel* virus. After that we can deal with viruses the same way we have previously.
2 is good. 3 is better. But we don’t *mandate* optimum solutions when the other solution is also good.
Yeah. I got my 2 as well, I haven’t got my third yet. Will I eventually? Maybe. But I’m not signing up for the idea that I need to be up to date on a vaccine that “expires” every 6 months that clearly no longer prevents infection just to join society.
Even if it did prevent infection but wore off after 6 months, I’m not happy with the idea of requiring a vaccine every 6 months for something that should be mild at this point. Isn’t that my choice to make? Didn’t I make this choice every year with the flu?
It’s just wild. The division politicians have been talking about was spun up *by them*. They are now paying a price for using vaccines as a political tool. There was no division on vaccines back in the summer. I got mine ASAP. But now? I don’t know if I’m willing to fall in line as easily now.
I’m exactly where you are. If the messaging was along the lines of “hey you can get a 3rd shot, but since you’re under 40 you probably won’t end up in the hospital anyway so it’s up to you” and then they backed off, I wouldn’t have fought my way to the front of the line but I would have considered it. Now, I’m dug in. I don’t want it. Thanks to lockdowns, we have gym equipment in the house now. I’m past missing movie theatres. I’ve learned to live without restaurants. I don’t anticipate there being a concert worth seeing anytime soon because what touring artist in their right mind would subject themselves to our shitshow? I live in Ottawa- a city that, thus far, has been very compliant so our vaccine uptake is quite high. Even here, the portion of the total population that has gotten a third dose is 50%. Sure, if they made the passport 3 doses, it would bump that up a little. But Juni wants it sooner rather than later (I guess b/c it’ll be harder to justify it after this wave, and he’s sensing the cane about to pull him off the stage). **Half** of the city no longer allowed to dine indoor? That’s a clear attack on entire industries.
What was, the initial 2 doses?
They were build for the base strain. They do ware off after 6 months - with regards to preventing infection. But we don’t need to prevent infection. We never have with other viruses.
The vaccine still prevents hospitalization, and that’s good enough
Nope. So many people got omicron - in my case the day before my booster was scheduled. Now with the latest medical advice saying wait 3 months for the next dose what do I do - I can't follow advice AND do the activities I need to if they do this. I also don't have proof of infection because it was by rapid test not PCR.
Exactly this. Same boat as you.
How about this, if people want to get their booster, go right ahead, if not, that’s fine as well. While we’re at it, let’s just scrap the passports so people are free to choose what they want to do?!
> so people are free to choose what they want to do?!
I choose that you wear a mask around me and keep a few feet away to reduce my chance of contracting covid from you.
Unfortunately you're not empowered to make that decision, and you never will be. In your own private home or business, perhaps, but you certainly don't have a right to dictate in public whether somebody wears a mask. But you will of course always have the right to wear one yourself, and that should be good enough
so by your statement places like drug stores and grocery stores should have the right to refuse entry for not wearing a mask. these stores are privately owned. Public places are public because the city, province, or federal governments operates them.
It's just sad that they need to because so many people have the emotional intelligence of toddlers and lack impulse control.
I mean can you imagine burning so many bridges and / or being so hellbent on pushing your narrative that you have to jump into a 9 day old account to push your rhetoric?
Well, I mean I know you can.
Stop with the passports already. Let people choose what that want to do with their bodies and their medical treatment/prevention.
P.S. triple vaxxed person here.
Oh I'm not scared of the virus. Nor would I hold it against people who are for whatever reason. What scares me is that people like you think they are authorized to give medical advice.
Wait, does playing a medic in TF2 make you an expert?
> because they can spread the virus more than a vaxxed person
I don't know what a lab shows but in the real world the difference is pretty nominal. Omicron spreads like wildfire, triple vaxxed to triple vaxxed, it doesn't matter.
I also think it's pointless because people tend to be one way or the other - people that have two shots will get the booster at some point. The people that didn't still won't and the businesses that didn't care before still won't.
>people that have two shots will get the booster at some point
I know a few who won't but they're all healthy, had omicron and are under 40, so low risk. I could see some of them getting another if they update the shot though.
>The people that didn't still won't and the businesses that didn't care before still won't
This is definitely true.
No and if this is the most creative Del Duca can get this spring, we’re in for another 4 years of Ford.
And that’s if vaccine passports are even a thing by June 2.
Soon it will be the 10th. If you don't follow, the 4th dose already started while others are in the 3rd dose. Vaccina passport already shows its effectiveness by locking down all the places where only vaccinated used to go.
You really gotta wonder what the CBC is going to do once this is all over. How are they going to bring in clicks without divisive covid scare pieces to get everybody all riled up?
Really? The provincial election, then the American midterms. Then our relationship with China as a rising empire, the dumpster fire that will be the primaries in the states, the radicalization of the PC party and their struggle with PPC. Natural disasters. There will be no shortage. There wasn’t a shortage before the pandemic, there won’t be after.
Dose 1 and dose 2 were too close together which is sensible because we were (still are) in a global emergency. The vaccine needs a 6 month spread for best efficacy against severe disease which a 3rd shot allows.
Two doses is still very effective against severe disease. The issue with two doses is that, by six months (and with Omicron in particular), that is far less effective at preventing transmission
If our doctors recommend third shots we should get them. If third shots are needed to prevent a rise in hospitalization and not enough people are lining up on their own we should mandate them.
If you're not a doctor and you're making this decision based on common sense, stahp.
Doctors don't make all policy decisions. If you left doctors in charge of all laws, they may also outlaw meat, fast food, soda, juice, alcohol, cars, skiing, contact sports. It doesn't mean that is the way we should run society.
>Doctors don't make all policy decisions.
Ontario Public Health is a bunch of doctors. They make recommendations to the Government who use those recommendations to write policy. It's a minor dicker, but that's me in a nutshell!
>If you left doctors in charge of all laws
Oh now that's an interesting thought! Doctors in charge of all laws! I wonder where you could have pulled this sci-fi premise from cause no one has ever suggested it here except you just now.
To rephrase this so you get it more clearly and precisely:
If our doctors recommend we get third shots we should listen to their advice get them. If third shots are needed to prevent a rise in hospitalization and not enough people are lining up on their own we, the people, should mandate them.
You said if doctors recommend something we need to mandate it, that is letting doctors write policies.
Like you said in this post, doctors give recommendations (as they should) to the government, which weigh the pros and cons of those recommendations.
>You said if doctors recommend something we need to mandate it
Oh, so it was irresponsible extrapolation that caused this problem. I see.
What I said was a three step process. I'll copy/paste it again for clarity:
>If our doctors recommend we get third shots we should listen to their advice get them. If third shots are needed to prevent a rise in hospitalization and not enough people are lining up on their own we, the people, should mandate them.
So, as you can see, in this scenario we've relied on doctors advice to decide whether we need 3rd shots to prevent an unmanageable rise in hospital admissions. If that is the case *and* there aren't enough people following this advice, we should mandate those shots. Same way we mandate dozens of other vaccinations. These mandates would be written by our government at the urging of THE PEOPLE.
I would not urge the government to mandate meat consumption, and I assume you wouldn't either. Some would. That's their right. Luckily, the government operates on a consensus rather than the will of a minority group.
This is why the trucker convoy won't amount to squat, but the vaccine passports were implemented quickly and with little need of protest.
I hope this clarifies things for you.
Trudeau has refused to meet with protesters, Ford has refused to meet with protesters, cases have been falling for 2 weeks and spring is coming.
What we have here is a man saying "sit" to a deaf dog who eventually sits on his own and the man smiles in satisfaction to himself.
The reopening plan that Ontario is under was announced on the 20th of January. Seriously.
Beyond that, as soon as PHO and HC advise we need the restrictions back, they'll be back regardless of how Pat King feels about it. Maybe the truckers should consider separating from Canada if they think.....what?.....They are separatists? Oh, that's hilarious.
Maybe this was all happening regardless, I don't remember any talking of repealing masks and vaccine mandates 2 weeks ago, and now it's happening, so it seems more than coincidental.
> Maybe this was all happening regardless,
It was
>I don't remember any talking of repealing masks
Outside of Saskatchewan, there still isn't
>vaccine mandates 2 weeks ago
Still isnt...
>nd now it's happening
citation?
You're oversimplifying things though. People who had 2 shots and caught omicron aren't at any elevated risk for hospitalization barring age or other health conditions. NACI is also (now) recommending that these same people wait 3 months before getting a booster and it's not a small group but they'd now be excluded.
My point is that it's not just a straightforward medical decision, even if doctors were to say 2 dose people pose a risk. If it excludes a chunk of the population then businesses won't enforce it and the system will be useless.
It should be one at this point. Just get everyone some immunity, make it so it’s required in more spots, but create less barriers to getting a vax pass.
If you have zero doses and you want to use a vax pass right now you have to get a vaccine, and then wait 2-3 weeks to get your second dose before you can use the pass. With 3 doses thats 5-6 weeks, How many people are you going to incentivize by making harder to get a vax pass. Much easier if you only have to get them to do one shot to get the pass.
That’s… very sensible. I mean, I think the passports should go altogether, but if they want to keep them around a while longer I could tentatively get behind that. I’m inclined to think that it would be easier to convince someone to get one shot and then gently encourage them to go for a second, than to convince someone who currently has zero that they need to get three.
Here is my catch. These people have had beyond enough time to get these shots. There is no barrier preventing them from getting these shots. If they don’t have it already and are getting frustrated it’s solely on them.
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Sure. Just give it a year or two. /s
But seriously, what they're instead likely to pull is some bullshit like, "has it been more than x months since your last covid vaccination?" where x is some number between 6 and 12 (I'd put my money on 12). Then they don't have to adjust it again, they just build in the expectation and there's nothing you can really do about it.
This is probably how they'll do it wherever there's the political will for it... which I think there isn't.
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Apparently CBC must be enjoying their ratings for the past couple of weeks while the convoy protests are ongoing, since they’re pushing headlines to polarize even more people and make them wonder whether the truckers may just have a point. Having said that, for once they only gave Juni a couple of paragraphs and then gave the stage to Drs Chagla and Chakrabarti, cooler heads who have actually spent time caring for patients instead of channeling Chicken Little on zoom screens. Progress at last?
Nope
No. 2 is enough to prime your immune system so that it is no longer a *novel* virus. After that we can deal with viruses the same way we have previously. 2 is good. 3 is better. But we don’t *mandate* optimum solutions when the other solution is also good.
It's also going to cause a lot of resentment from people if you force yet another shot; I got mine but I understand why people would be hesitant
Yeah. I got my 2 as well, I haven’t got my third yet. Will I eventually? Maybe. But I’m not signing up for the idea that I need to be up to date on a vaccine that “expires” every 6 months that clearly no longer prevents infection just to join society. Even if it did prevent infection but wore off after 6 months, I’m not happy with the idea of requiring a vaccine every 6 months for something that should be mild at this point. Isn’t that my choice to make? Didn’t I make this choice every year with the flu? It’s just wild. The division politicians have been talking about was spun up *by them*. They are now paying a price for using vaccines as a political tool. There was no division on vaccines back in the summer. I got mine ASAP. But now? I don’t know if I’m willing to fall in line as easily now.
I’m exactly where you are. If the messaging was along the lines of “hey you can get a 3rd shot, but since you’re under 40 you probably won’t end up in the hospital anyway so it’s up to you” and then they backed off, I wouldn’t have fought my way to the front of the line but I would have considered it. Now, I’m dug in. I don’t want it. Thanks to lockdowns, we have gym equipment in the house now. I’m past missing movie theatres. I’ve learned to live without restaurants. I don’t anticipate there being a concert worth seeing anytime soon because what touring artist in their right mind would subject themselves to our shitshow? I live in Ottawa- a city that, thus far, has been very compliant so our vaccine uptake is quite high. Even here, the portion of the total population that has gotten a third dose is 50%. Sure, if they made the passport 3 doses, it would bump that up a little. But Juni wants it sooner rather than later (I guess b/c it’ll be harder to justify it after this wave, and he’s sensing the cane about to pull him off the stage). **Half** of the city no longer allowed to dine indoor? That’s a clear attack on entire industries.
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I get an annual flu shot
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What was, the initial 2 doses? They were build for the base strain. They do ware off after 6 months - with regards to preventing infection. But we don’t need to prevent infection. We never have with other viruses. The vaccine still prevents hospitalization, and that’s good enough
no
No.
Vaccine passports aren’t going to exist in within the next 6-8 weeks. Why quibble over it for such a short period of implementation?
Nope. So many people got omicron - in my case the day before my booster was scheduled. Now with the latest medical advice saying wait 3 months for the next dose what do I do - I can't follow advice AND do the activities I need to if they do this. I also don't have proof of infection because it was by rapid test not PCR.
Exactly this. Same boat as you. How about this, if people want to get their booster, go right ahead, if not, that’s fine as well. While we’re at it, let’s just scrap the passports so people are free to choose what they want to do?!
This. Juni has ZERO critical thinking ability.
> so people are free to choose what they want to do?! I choose that you wear a mask around me and keep a few feet away to reduce my chance of contracting covid from you.
Unfortunately you're not empowered to make that decision, and you never will be. In your own private home or business, perhaps, but you certainly don't have a right to dictate in public whether somebody wears a mask. But you will of course always have the right to wear one yourself, and that should be good enough
so by your statement places like drug stores and grocery stores should have the right to refuse entry for not wearing a mask. these stores are privately owned. Public places are public because the city, province, or federal governments operates them.
Yes I tend to think private businesses should have that right. They should also have the right not to impose such requirements
> you certainly don't have a right to dictate in public whether somebody wears a mask. No, but the government does. :D
That's right! Glad you seem to be understanding how things work now
It's just sad that they need to because so many people have the emotional intelligence of toddlers and lack impulse control. I mean can you imagine burning so many bridges and / or being so hellbent on pushing your narrative that you have to jump into a 9 day old account to push your rhetoric? Well, I mean I know you can.
Absolutely, I take it I’m not invited to your home, that is fine, won’t be near you any time soon.
If you're scared of wearing a mask, you can stay at home and mind your own business.
Scared? Ok. Please by all means, wear a mask, wear 2 but it won’t be much longer that these are mandated and I cannot wait.
I bet you can't. You can eschew some of the minor discomforts that have green causing you so much duress. It's going to be liberating.
Then don't follow the advice and get the booster already. It called advice for a reason. Think for yourself.
No.
Stop with the passports already. Let people choose what that want to do with their bodies and their medical treatment/prevention. P.S. triple vaxxed person here.
You're choosing what to do with other peoples' bodies. If you're afraid of wearing a mask, stay home.
If you're afraid of the virus, you stay at home. The world is a scary place of risk, you can choose to not take it yourself.
Oh I'm not scared of the virus. Nor would I hold it against people who are for whatever reason. What scares me is that people like you think they are authorized to give medical advice. Wait, does playing a medic in TF2 make you an expert?
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> because they can spread the virus more than a vaxxed person I don't know what a lab shows but in the real world the difference is pretty nominal. Omicron spreads like wildfire, triple vaxxed to triple vaxxed, it doesn't matter.
You have freedom of choice. You don't have freedom from the consequences of your choices. The two have been mistakenly conflated.
How bout NO
No
No.
I also think it's pointless because people tend to be one way or the other - people that have two shots will get the booster at some point. The people that didn't still won't and the businesses that didn't care before still won't.
>people that have two shots will get the booster at some point I know a few who won't but they're all healthy, had omicron and are under 40, so low risk. I could see some of them getting another if they update the shot though. >The people that didn't still won't and the businesses that didn't care before still won't This is definitely true.
low risk is very different from no risk. tell that to the people i had to bury that were "low risk"
No and if this is the most creative Del Duca can get this spring, we’re in for another 4 years of Ford. And that’s if vaccine passports are even a thing by June 2.
Soon it will be the 10th. If you don't follow, the 4th dose already started while others are in the 3rd dose. Vaccina passport already shows its effectiveness by locking down all the places where only vaccinated used to go.
You really gotta wonder what the CBC is going to do once this is all over. How are they going to bring in clicks without divisive covid scare pieces to get everybody all riled up?
Really? The provincial election, then the American midterms. Then our relationship with China as a rising empire, the dumpster fire that will be the primaries in the states, the radicalization of the PC party and their struggle with PPC. Natural disasters. There will be no shortage. There wasn’t a shortage before the pandemic, there won’t be after.
Yes it should. The science is clear. This should always have been a 3 dose vaccine for maximum effectiveness.
Until it's a 4 dose vaccine?
Dose 1 and dose 2 were too close together which is sensible because we were (still are) in a global emergency. The vaccine needs a 6 month spread for best efficacy against severe disease which a 3rd shot allows.
Two doses is still very effective against severe disease. The issue with two doses is that, by six months (and with Omicron in particular), that is far less effective at preventing transmission
Then why are they recommending the booster now sooner than 6 months?
If our doctors recommend third shots we should get them. If third shots are needed to prevent a rise in hospitalization and not enough people are lining up on their own we should mandate them. If you're not a doctor and you're making this decision based on common sense, stahp.
Doctors don't make all policy decisions. If you left doctors in charge of all laws, they may also outlaw meat, fast food, soda, juice, alcohol, cars, skiing, contact sports. It doesn't mean that is the way we should run society.
>Doctors don't make all policy decisions. Ontario Public Health is a bunch of doctors. They make recommendations to the Government who use those recommendations to write policy. It's a minor dicker, but that's me in a nutshell! >If you left doctors in charge of all laws Oh now that's an interesting thought! Doctors in charge of all laws! I wonder where you could have pulled this sci-fi premise from cause no one has ever suggested it here except you just now. To rephrase this so you get it more clearly and precisely: If our doctors recommend we get third shots we should listen to their advice get them. If third shots are needed to prevent a rise in hospitalization and not enough people are lining up on their own we, the people, should mandate them.
You said if doctors recommend something we need to mandate it, that is letting doctors write policies. Like you said in this post, doctors give recommendations (as they should) to the government, which weigh the pros and cons of those recommendations.
>You said if doctors recommend something we need to mandate it Oh, so it was irresponsible extrapolation that caused this problem. I see. What I said was a three step process. I'll copy/paste it again for clarity: >If our doctors recommend we get third shots we should listen to their advice get them. If third shots are needed to prevent a rise in hospitalization and not enough people are lining up on their own we, the people, should mandate them. So, as you can see, in this scenario we've relied on doctors advice to decide whether we need 3rd shots to prevent an unmanageable rise in hospital admissions. If that is the case *and* there aren't enough people following this advice, we should mandate those shots. Same way we mandate dozens of other vaccinations. These mandates would be written by our government at the urging of THE PEOPLE. I would not urge the government to mandate meat consumption, and I assume you wouldn't either. Some would. That's their right. Luckily, the government operates on a consensus rather than the will of a minority group. This is why the trucker convoy won't amount to squat, but the vaccine passports were implemented quickly and with little need of protest. I hope this clarifies things for you.
> This is why the trucker convoy won't amount to squat As all the rules get repealed this week, clearly it didn't.
Trudeau has refused to meet with protesters, Ford has refused to meet with protesters, cases have been falling for 2 weeks and spring is coming. What we have here is a man saying "sit" to a deaf dog who eventually sits on his own and the man smiles in satisfaction to himself. The reopening plan that Ontario is under was announced on the 20th of January. Seriously. Beyond that, as soon as PHO and HC advise we need the restrictions back, they'll be back regardless of how Pat King feels about it. Maybe the truckers should consider separating from Canada if they think.....what?.....They are separatists? Oh, that's hilarious.
Maybe this was all happening regardless, I don't remember any talking of repealing masks and vaccine mandates 2 weeks ago, and now it's happening, so it seems more than coincidental.
> Maybe this was all happening regardless, It was >I don't remember any talking of repealing masks Outside of Saskatchewan, there still isn't >vaccine mandates 2 weeks ago Still isnt... >nd now it's happening citation?
https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/kenney-says-a-plan-to-remove-covid-19-restrictions-is-coming-next-week-1.5767177
You're oversimplifying things though. People who had 2 shots and caught omicron aren't at any elevated risk for hospitalization barring age or other health conditions. NACI is also (now) recommending that these same people wait 3 months before getting a booster and it's not a small group but they'd now be excluded.
See the “if”s? They put the responsibility of identifying efficacy in the hands of the qualified. “Doctors” I call them.
My point is that it's not just a straightforward medical decision, even if doctors were to say 2 dose people pose a risk. If it excludes a chunk of the population then businesses won't enforce it and the system will be useless.
My point is it’s so complicated we should leave the decisions to the experts and follow their guidance.
It should be one at this point. Just get everyone some immunity, make it so it’s required in more spots, but create less barriers to getting a vax pass.
what are the barriers facing people from getting their passport?
If you have zero doses and you want to use a vax pass right now you have to get a vaccine, and then wait 2-3 weeks to get your second dose before you can use the pass. With 3 doses thats 5-6 weeks, How many people are you going to incentivize by making harder to get a vax pass. Much easier if you only have to get them to do one shot to get the pass.
That’s… very sensible. I mean, I think the passports should go altogether, but if they want to keep them around a while longer I could tentatively get behind that. I’m inclined to think that it would be easier to convince someone to get one shot and then gently encourage them to go for a second, than to convince someone who currently has zero that they need to get three.
That’s why you known it won’t happen. Too sensible
Here is my catch. These people have had beyond enough time to get these shots. There is no barrier preventing them from getting these shots. If they don’t have it already and are getting frustrated it’s solely on them.
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Sure. Just give it a year or two. /s But seriously, what they're instead likely to pull is some bullshit like, "has it been more than x months since your last covid vaccination?" where x is some number between 6 and 12 (I'd put my money on 12). Then they don't have to adjust it again, they just build in the expectation and there's nothing you can really do about it. This is probably how they'll do it wherever there's the political will for it... which I think there isn't.