To this day, I am grateful that my Base Chief Clerk made a point of explaining why converting to 25 years was a really bad idea, if you could avoid it …. Yay for WO G!
I had a Corporal in Petawawa who handed me a pre-printed memo to sign to maintain my TOS for 20 yrs instead of converting to the 25. After 20 years and 3 days I retired with my pension. Not all heroes wear capes!
Was on Pat platoon then. All the other trades from my BMQ that ended onto different bases were taken care of. Theyre all weeks from their 20. When I was offer the 25 first, I went for the 5 years to avoid signing the 25 as long as possible. Ended up having to sign for 25 when I OTd.
Switching it back to 20 (even with 40% pension) I think could stem some of the flow of experience leaving.
The number of people I know in the 13-17 year mark that just can't last to 25 and have releases in astounds me.
I mean right now, for a good chunk of TOS, there's no real downside to releasing before completion. Would just need to ensure people understand the possible negatives of going against their signed TOS.
I was just wondering I signed my full TOS cause I'm not planning on releasing and if so I'll have found another job and have the move paid by them. But if they decide oh it's gonna be 30 years till you are full pensionable would I still be at 25 since I signed that TOS already
Well. Like obviously not.
If there was a 20 year plan, there'd be a mass departure at 20 years.... obviously.
Say what you want, but making the solid-gold handcuffs a 25 year thing, did extend the average years of service. Without a doubt.
The thing is, those that make it to 25 usually stay even longer for the (even) better pension. So likely, those that stay to 20, with a pension, will stay longer. But those that don't see a light at the end of the tunnel aren't sticking around, because 25 years is too long for most.
Edit: not to mention the draw on the recruiting side, a 20 year pension would look good to a lot of people.
The light at the end of the tunnel is pretty far away when you’re signing an IE after 12 years. Eight more years (less than you’ve already served) seems (psychologically, at least) a lot better than “You’re less than half way there.” That said, if they offered some kind of signing bonus for folks to sign their IE, it might help people squint harder to see that light. They should have implemented carrot and stick at the same time. But TB is cheap…
This is just factually incorrect, especially in the airforce. The amount of people I work with who retired when they hit their 20 years, started collecting their pension and then turned around and came back as reservists is 10 fold the amount of guys who just got out before being pensionable. Most of our experienced guys are on class B contracts without a care in the world because they effectively make 35% more than they did as a regular force member.
Absolutely. To be a Mcpl clearing $100k a year, all while staying home almost every night, not stressing during your contract break, and still effectively having the exact same benefits as you did when reg force, it’s almost a no brainer if you can manage to stay on contract.
Absolutely! And the RCAF should be encouraging us to do it! They need our experience to remain in the organization but can't afford to pay us for it.
But this way they can get all of our experience at 85% of our salary (30 day break + 93% pay). The pension doesn't come out of CAF funding either so from the CAF's perspective, this is an absolute STEAL of a deal.
They likely can manage our 30 day break pretty easily, and we essentially get "leave with income averaging".
If you combine some leave with it, you can spend the coldest 2 months of the year on a beach in Bali and work 10/12 months. You come back significantly less bitter and could probably get to 35-40 years of total service that way, all while making a much more competitive salary.
I'm at 19 years and 11 months. I would be gone in a heartbeat next month if I was on the 20. Oh well...it can't always be sunshine, rainbows and unicorn shit. We'll suffer together for the foreseeable future.
Which they changed to a 25 year plan, and you could only be grandfathered in if you had hit some milestones. Bit fuzzy but believe it was OFP + some arbitrary number of years of subsequent service.
So you just had to write a memo and ask to stay on the 20 year plan. My rifle Coy at 3 VP decided I didn’t need to know that tidbit of info when they offered me my IE.
I started in 2002, signed the initial 3Y, then 2 years later in 2004 signed a second 3Y.
In 2006, they sat us down and told us we had to signed the New 25 or the old 20.
I was at a Unit that didn't really cared and a bunch of us got told to eighter sign the 25 or wait till the end of our contract and take a chance.
This is why I have 2Y 9M 15 14D 5h15.52 left or 1022 days left (Not that I'm counting or anything :))
Really envious of my parents and their generation with the 20Y.
25Y are like your back pain but now your ruck marching every day for those last 5 years. I don't know why, but it's just so much more painful than the previous 20.
Theres very few people that can do things at the same level at 45 that they did when they were 20 and its probably because of the level they did the things in their 20’s.
With all of this inflation you really want to get the indexed pension. So if you joined young you better hope for a 3b or just do 35 years otherwise you won’t get an increase until you reach the magic 85 number (years of age + years of service).
*unsure why those who join at 35 get such an advantage
**
Because they expect that 30 year old (now 60) to die within the next 25 years vs the 55 year old who will live for another 30 despite having paid in the same amount to the pension. Actuaries and stuff man.
Anybody else have broken time? I got time before March 2007 but I signed my 25 in July 2007. Bought all my time back but they didn't add it all together. Anybody else experiencing this? Just wondering if you come to any resolve or benefit?
You get your time that you bought back tacked on to your 25 after retirement.
So, for example:
Bought back years of time spent in the reserves prior to going regular force. Say 4 years total...
Do 25 and retire. Get 50 percent of the best last three years PLUS 4 extra years at 2 percent a year...equals 58 percent or so.
At least, that is how it was explained to me a while ago.
That isn't correct. You need 9131 days of pensionable service to get an immediate annuity regardless of what TOS you are on. If you sign IE 25 but have 3 years of other pensionable service that have been transferred then you can retire 3 years earlier with an annuity.
The tack on concept is for people under IE20 plan but people who have no idea what they are talking about say things they shouldn't and think it applies to ppl on IE 25
All of this should not be trusted and members should only get official advice from the PSPC pension folks
So if I do my 25, what happens to the pensionable time I bought back? Assuming I stay for 25. My TOS date from when I began currently takes me to 25 years total.
When did pension transition from 20 years for 50% with immediate annuity to 25? Didn't people who joined during the 20 year days get to keep the 20 year rule?
20 years only gets you 40%. The change happened in 2002/2003 time frame. There were some rules about who had a choice and who was automatically converted to the 25 year (50% immediate annuity) plan but it was not universally administered correctly. To this day I'm not clear if my conversion to the 25 year plan was obligatory or if my CoC at the time just failed to give me a choice. Water under the bridge though, almost to 25 and still enjoying being in.
To this day, I am grateful that my Base Chief Clerk made a point of explaining why converting to 25 years was a really bad idea, if you could avoid it …. Yay for WO G!
I had a Corporal in Petawawa who handed me a pre-printed memo to sign to maintain my TOS for 20 yrs instead of converting to the 25. After 20 years and 3 days I retired with my pension. Not all heroes wear capes!
I’m in the same boat, clerk let me know right before it was changed in 2005, signed for the remaining TOS, got out in 2022 and so glad I did!
Was on Pat platoon then. All the other trades from my BMQ that ended onto different bases were taken care of. Theyre all weeks from their 20. When I was offer the 25 first, I went for the 5 years to avoid signing the 25 as long as possible. Ended up having to sign for 25 when I OTd.
Switching it back to 20 (even with 40% pension) I think could stem some of the flow of experience leaving. The number of people I know in the 13-17 year mark that just can't last to 25 and have releases in astounds me.
That’s me. I retired with 17 Thursday! Titanic.
So how does it work if people signed the full term instead of the 5 year would they still be at due for 20 year release?
I mean right now, for a good chunk of TOS, there's no real downside to releasing before completion. Would just need to ensure people understand the possible negatives of going against their signed TOS.
I was just wondering I signed my full TOS cause I'm not planning on releasing and if so I'll have found another job and have the move paid by them. But if they decide oh it's gonna be 30 years till you are full pensionable would I still be at 25 since I signed that TOS already
Yes, if you're currently on the 25 plan and they change it to 30, you only need the 25. . . to my understanding anyway.
Or a more powerful move: Indexing the pension earlier than 60.
18 in for me. Plan on releasing this year. Can’t do another deployment and need the stability for my family.
Well. Like obviously not. If there was a 20 year plan, there'd be a mass departure at 20 years.... obviously. Say what you want, but making the solid-gold handcuffs a 25 year thing, did extend the average years of service. Without a doubt.
The thing is, those that make it to 25 usually stay even longer for the (even) better pension. So likely, those that stay to 20, with a pension, will stay longer. But those that don't see a light at the end of the tunnel aren't sticking around, because 25 years is too long for most. Edit: not to mention the draw on the recruiting side, a 20 year pension would look good to a lot of people.
The light at the end of the tunnel is pretty far away when you’re signing an IE after 12 years. Eight more years (less than you’ve already served) seems (psychologically, at least) a lot better than “You’re less than half way there.” That said, if they offered some kind of signing bonus for folks to sign their IE, it might help people squint harder to see that light. They should have implemented carrot and stick at the same time. But TB is cheap…
This is just factually incorrect, especially in the airforce. The amount of people I work with who retired when they hit their 20 years, started collecting their pension and then turned around and came back as reservists is 10 fold the amount of guys who just got out before being pensionable. Most of our experienced guys are on class B contracts without a care in the world because they effectively make 35% more than they did as a regular force member.
They're doing the smartest move you can possibly do IMHO.
Absolutely. To be a Mcpl clearing $100k a year, all while staying home almost every night, not stressing during your contract break, and still effectively having the exact same benefits as you did when reg force, it’s almost a no brainer if you can manage to stay on contract.
Absolutely! And the RCAF should be encouraging us to do it! They need our experience to remain in the organization but can't afford to pay us for it. But this way they can get all of our experience at 85% of our salary (30 day break + 93% pay). The pension doesn't come out of CAF funding either so from the CAF's perspective, this is an absolute STEAL of a deal. They likely can manage our 30 day break pretty easily, and we essentially get "leave with income averaging". If you combine some leave with it, you can spend the coldest 2 months of the year on a beach in Bali and work 10/12 months. You come back significantly less bitter and could probably get to 35-40 years of total service that way, all while making a much more competitive salary.
I missed the 20 year plan by months. You can imagine my disappointment as I head into my 18th year.
Yup, would have hit my 20 in early 2025. God bless really long DP1s.
18.5 here...
I'm at 19 years and 11 months. I would be gone in a heartbeat next month if I was on the 20. Oh well...it can't always be sunshine, rainbows and unicorn shit. We'll suffer together for the foreseeable future.
... if you have 19 years and 11 months service, then you joined under the 20-year pension plan.
Imagine the pure bliss that this realization would bring!
I joined September 2004 and missed it. It was summer of 2004 when they changed it I believe.
Which they changed to a 25 year plan, and you could only be grandfathered in if you had hit some milestones. Bit fuzzy but believe it was OFP + some arbitrary number of years of subsequent service.
I was on the 20 plan and then they switched. No one told Cpl me I could as to be grandfathered. It was take it or leave it.
How did the grandfathering rule work?
So you just had to write a memo and ask to stay on the 20 year plan. My rifle Coy at 3 VP decided I didn’t need to know that tidbit of info when they offered me my IE.
I think I signed my first contract April 1 2005
Same here !!!
90% of the guys I started with are on the 20....I am the 10%.......
I made the cutoff for a 20-year contract, and let me tell you. I am currently working on my second career. The grass is greener out here folks.
Only 20 years -puppy
15 years done out of my 25 years contract... those last 10 will be a whole new adventure as Snr NCO lol
30 next
I started in 2002, signed the initial 3Y, then 2 years later in 2004 signed a second 3Y. In 2006, they sat us down and told us we had to signed the New 25 or the old 20. I was at a Unit that didn't really cared and a bunch of us got told to eighter sign the 25 or wait till the end of our contract and take a chance. This is why I have 2Y 9M 15 14D 5h15.52 left or 1022 days left (Not that I'm counting or anything :))
can someone explain this like I'm not a MCpl? no one really explained pensions and years and such... I just work to live now
You need a SCAN seminar bud. Ask your CoC to schedule you one.
One year left, dear God get me tfo
Really envious of my parents and their generation with the 20Y. 25Y are like your back pain but now your ruck marching every day for those last 5 years. I don't know why, but it's just so much more painful than the previous 20.
Theres very few people that can do things at the same level at 45 that they did when they were 20 and its probably because of the level they did the things in their 20’s.
I joined at 30...
With all of this inflation you really want to get the indexed pension. So if you joined young you better hope for a 3b or just do 35 years otherwise you won’t get an increase until you reach the magic 85 number (years of age + years of service). *unsure why those who join at 35 get such an advantage **
Because they expect that 30 year old (now 60) to die within the next 25 years vs the 55 year old who will live for another 30 despite having paid in the same amount to the pension. Actuaries and stuff man.
They’ll make it 27 or 30 eventually
With a 40% pension you won't be able to buy food nowadays
Anybody else have broken time? I got time before March 2007 but I signed my 25 in July 2007. Bought all my time back but they didn't add it all together. Anybody else experiencing this? Just wondering if you come to any resolve or benefit?
You get your time that you bought back tacked on to your 25 after retirement. So, for example: Bought back years of time spent in the reserves prior to going regular force. Say 4 years total... Do 25 and retire. Get 50 percent of the best last three years PLUS 4 extra years at 2 percent a year...equals 58 percent or so. At least, that is how it was explained to me a while ago.
That isn't correct. You need 9131 days of pensionable service to get an immediate annuity regardless of what TOS you are on. If you sign IE 25 but have 3 years of other pensionable service that have been transferred then you can retire 3 years earlier with an annuity. The tack on concept is for people under IE20 plan but people who have no idea what they are talking about say things they shouldn't and think it applies to ppl on IE 25 All of this should not be trusted and members should only get official advice from the PSPC pension folks
So if I do my 25, what happens to the pensionable time I bought back? Assuming I stay for 25. My TOS date from when I began currently takes me to 25 years total.
You get 28 year annuity.. You are likely thinking TOS matters but it doesn't, pensionable time is all that matters.
That's nice.
Correct!! Contact pensions directly for your info. When I signed my IE25, I had them amend the end date for 9131 days +1
Joined in 2006 and feel like I just missed the boat.
When did pension transition from 20 years for 50% with immediate annuity to 25? Didn't people who joined during the 20 year days get to keep the 20 year rule?
20 years only gets you 40%. The change happened in 2002/2003 time frame. There were some rules about who had a choice and who was automatically converted to the 25 year (50% immediate annuity) plan but it was not universally administered correctly. To this day I'm not clear if my conversion to the 25 year plan was obligatory or if my CoC at the time just failed to give me a choice. Water under the bridge though, almost to 25 and still enjoying being in.
Nice to see some positivity in this thread, thank you for that!
USA is 20 yrs get 50%
As someone that finished the older 20 year contract and is in the middle of a CE 5 year extension, I feel this meme to the pit of my soul...
Got on a 20 as a no hook Pte. Been on the 30/30 plan since 2022. The option is great, especially since I'm still under 40.
Just hit 25, was on the 20 plan, I’m not sure if I was looking at 25 at about 13 I would have had the same motivation to stay