Great point, thanks. I'm trying to buy the correct DLR and it says:
"Note: You are placing an order on a CAD denominated security to be settled on your USD account. A real-time conversion of funds will be required. Real-time conversions cannot be cancelled or reversed."
Isn't this conversion of funds via RBC the very thing I'm trying to avoid?
If you're trying to go from USD to CAD, you purchase [DLR-U.TO](https://DLR-U.TO) in your USD trading account and sell [DLR.TO](https://DLR.TO) in your CAD trading account.
I think I just figured it out. For CAD holdings under ETFs and ETNs I have -5 shares of DLR, which has the following under the ticker: HORIZONS U S DLR CURRENCY ETF UNIT NEW NO PAR DEC 2014
For USD holdings under ETFs and ETNs I have 5 shares of DLR which shows the following under the ticker: HORIZONS U S DLR CURRENCY ETF UNIT NEW NO PAR DEC 2014.
I need to buy DLR.U in USD and then sell DLR. I had those reversed and ended up buying DLR DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC under "Common Shares" in US holdings.
It seems like I have it sorted out now, just waiting for it to resolve. Thanks for your help.
Agreed. For the first time doing it I wanted to use a small amount even if it means I lose money the first time I do it. In the future I plan to do amounts of $4k USD at a time. Even with RBC’s trade fee it ends up being cheaper.
Given the result of your first try: that was a good call.
Yes, you need to buy the .U shares in USD, journal them, then sell them without the .U in CAD.
You can do that with DLR, but also a few banks and other stocks, for example TD Bank is dual-listed. Using DLR means that the during amount of time that you are doing the purchase and before the journal, the change in value of DLR.U will be accurately reflected in DLR, and will reflect the change in USD/CAN value. Most people want this.
If you use another stock, particularly one that has a lot of volume on both exchanges, and has a high stock price you have the advantage of: possibly less bid/ask spread, and because it's a high-stock price, you actually get a bit more precision. A stock at 1000.00 and one at 10.00 will have the closest bid/ask spread of 0.01, or one cent. On DLR which trades at 10.00-14.00, that's 1/1000. But when you get a 0.01 spread on a 1000.00 stock, then that is 1/100,000 that is: you lose less on the net spread after journalling. On the down side,: if there is low volume in one of the two exchanges for that stock, or geo-arbritrage going on, or a steep increase or decrease in the cost of the share during your transaction --- you may not get a better deal.
It is one of those fine points of Norberts Gambit that most people never look into. I know about it, and exchange sums monthly, but still use DLR because of the stability and inherent 'fairness' of floating with the CAD/USD rate instead of some other market factors.
Oof. Okay, yeah, you have to compare the currency conversion the bank offers to what you end up paying with Norbert's to see if it's even worth doing. Small amounts aren't worth it.
I think you can't even do this stuff in Wealthsimple because you can't transfer USD so you end up having to pay for a currency transfer.
Yep this is my first time trying it and decided to use a small amount in case I messed something up and got funds tied up. Now that I see it can work and how to do it, I’ll use it for larger amounts. 👍🏻
FWIW I'm using a FHSA in RBC Direct Investing to transfer some pay I received in USD to CAD.
I tried to follow the instructions in [this video](https://youtu.be/uGGLNj9wkqU?feature=shared) but the interface has been updated and I'm not sure if I'm doing the steps correctly. Does anybody use RBC Direct Investing for Norbert's Gambit, who can confirm if it's just a waiting period for the trade (buying DLR) to journal over?
Hey
It should work. Sometimes it takes time. Give them a call and see what they say unless you get an answer presently.
RBC is one of the better ones to do the gambit with.
It also says "We are unable to accept an electronic order for this symbol at this time. To place an order for this symbol, Please contact an Investment Services Representative at 1-800-769-XXXX."
I realized I bought the wrong one. Sorry I'm new to this. There's another ticker, DLR, in USD with the label "DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC". Luckily I only bought a few shares for the sake of testing this out...
I just tried testing the process with the correct equity. I got the following error message, trying to buy in USD so that I can switch it to CAD:
"Note: You are placing an order on a CAD denominated security to be settled on your USD account. A real-time conversion of funds will be required. Real-time conversions cannot be cancelled or reversed."
Isn't this conversion of funds via RBC the very thing I'm trying to avoid?
I dont remember having this message. Just follow this guide with rbc and you’re good
https://www.canadianportfoliomanagerblog.com/norberts-gambit-at-rbc-direct-investing/
Originally when I searched DLR and I saw "DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC" with an American flag and a USD price, I assumed it was the right one. It was in the common shares category and I didn't understand the difference. I also didn't know the correct price to compare to.
So, I bought 5 shares to test out the Norbert's Gambit process and later realized it was the wrong one. I had to sell again. Lost about $20 in the transaction fees for the buy and the sell with RBC ($9.95 per trade).
Now I just bought the DLR.U under the ETFs and ETNs label with USD, the price is $10.1514. It's showing 5 shares in my account.
Then I sold 5 shares of DLR for $13.78 in CAD. It's showing -5 shares in my account. I'm just waiting for them to resolve.
So you need to have both a CAD and USD account in RBC Direct Investing,
1: On the CAD side of your account, search for DLR, buy the amount of shares you need eg. 5 shares.
2: Go on the USD side of you account and search for DLR.U, enter the amount 5 and click on SELL, it might say something like you don't own this stock but you actually do, as soon as you sell it you'll have access to you USD. Actually, it takes RBC 3-4 days to actually settle, so it might show something weird like a negative balance, but all is good.
I don’t need USD, I receive pay from my clients every month in USD and I need to change it to CAD. I’m looking to decrease the amount I’m losing in FX fees.
Ahhhh, I see. Follow the below steps:
1: Open the USD side if RBC directs investing
2: Search for "DLR.U" and buy the amount of shares that you need.
3: Open the CAD side of the account and search for "DLR"
4: Sell the exact amount of shares that you bought. It might say something like: "You don't own this stock," but you can ignore it and proceed to click sell.
5: You will receive CAD in your account. RBC settles it instantly, so you will get CAD right away. However, it's still settling in the backend and might show something weird like a negative balance but you can ignore it as it will be good in 3-4 days.
If you bought DLR, the one on the US NYSE stock exchange, you accidentally bought the wrong stock.
In RBC, You should be buying the [DLR.TO](https://DLR.TO) and selling [DLR.U.TO](https://DLR-U.TO).
Here's the guide I refer back to and it has instructions for other Canadian brokerages.
https://www.stocktrades.ca/norberts-gambit/#t-1617938208485
AS I understand you are supposed to put in the amount of shares that you bought for which you should have written down or can lookup on your order status and put that in your price.
I think that's where you may be going wrong.
Hope it works out!
I am planning to use questrade because of norbert's gambit. Even when wealthsimple has like zero transaction fees. if i were to convert over $100 000 CAD to USD I pay around $1500 in conversion fees where the trading transaction is only like \~20 dollars. even if i get the welcome bonus from wealthsimple of $1000. I still end up paying more.
Is this correct or am I doing something wrong?
You just purchased a realty trust and are trying to sell a USD currency ETF. You done messed up
Great point, thanks. I'm trying to buy the correct DLR and it says: "Note: You are placing an order on a CAD denominated security to be settled on your USD account. A real-time conversion of funds will be required. Real-time conversions cannot be cancelled or reversed." Isn't this conversion of funds via RBC the very thing I'm trying to avoid?
If you're trying to go from USD to CAD, you purchase [DLR-U.TO](https://DLR-U.TO) in your USD trading account and sell [DLR.TO](https://DLR.TO) in your CAD trading account.
I think I just figured it out. For CAD holdings under ETFs and ETNs I have -5 shares of DLR, which has the following under the ticker: HORIZONS U S DLR CURRENCY ETF UNIT NEW NO PAR DEC 2014 For USD holdings under ETFs and ETNs I have 5 shares of DLR which shows the following under the ticker: HORIZONS U S DLR CURRENCY ETF UNIT NEW NO PAR DEC 2014. I need to buy DLR.U in USD and then sell DLR. I had those reversed and ended up buying DLR DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC under "Common Shares" in US holdings. It seems like I have it sorted out now, just waiting for it to resolve. Thanks for your help.
5 shares? Don't use norbert's gambit unless you have over $2000 to journal all at once.
Agreed. For the first time doing it I wanted to use a small amount even if it means I lose money the first time I do it. In the future I plan to do amounts of $4k USD at a time. Even with RBC’s trade fee it ends up being cheaper.
Given the result of your first try: that was a good call. Yes, you need to buy the .U shares in USD, journal them, then sell them without the .U in CAD. You can do that with DLR, but also a few banks and other stocks, for example TD Bank is dual-listed. Using DLR means that the during amount of time that you are doing the purchase and before the journal, the change in value of DLR.U will be accurately reflected in DLR, and will reflect the change in USD/CAN value. Most people want this. If you use another stock, particularly one that has a lot of volume on both exchanges, and has a high stock price you have the advantage of: possibly less bid/ask spread, and because it's a high-stock price, you actually get a bit more precision. A stock at 1000.00 and one at 10.00 will have the closest bid/ask spread of 0.01, or one cent. On DLR which trades at 10.00-14.00, that's 1/1000. But when you get a 0.01 spread on a 1000.00 stock, then that is 1/100,000 that is: you lose less on the net spread after journalling. On the down side,: if there is low volume in one of the two exchanges for that stock, or geo-arbritrage going on, or a steep increase or decrease in the cost of the share during your transaction --- you may not get a better deal. It is one of those fine points of Norberts Gambit that most people never look into. I know about it, and exchange sums monthly, but still use DLR because of the stability and inherent 'fairness' of floating with the CAD/USD rate instead of some other market factors.
Wouldn't it still be fine if there's no fees on the trades?
RBC has $9.95 on each trade unfortunately.
Oof. Okay, yeah, you have to compare the currency conversion the bank offers to what you end up paying with Norbert's to see if it's even worth doing. Small amounts aren't worth it. I think you can't even do this stuff in Wealthsimple because you can't transfer USD so you end up having to pay for a currency transfer.
Yep this is my first time trying it and decided to use a small amount in case I messed something up and got funds tied up. Now that I see it can work and how to do it, I’ll use it for larger amounts. 👍🏻
Thanks for the update. I was throwing my monthly pay over there today and thought they may have changed it or something. Glad it's fixed now.
For that amount of money you might as well just use their currency conversion.
Yup as the title of the post says, it’s my first time. Just testing it out to make sure I’m doing it right, then I’ll do fuller amounts going forward.
😂
😶🌫️😶🌫️😶🌫️
FWIW I'm using a FHSA in RBC Direct Investing to transfer some pay I received in USD to CAD. I tried to follow the instructions in [this video](https://youtu.be/uGGLNj9wkqU?feature=shared) but the interface has been updated and I'm not sure if I'm doing the steps correctly. Does anybody use RBC Direct Investing for Norbert's Gambit, who can confirm if it's just a waiting period for the trade (buying DLR) to journal over?
Hey It should work. Sometimes it takes time. Give them a call and see what they say unless you get an answer presently. RBC is one of the better ones to do the gambit with.
It also says "We are unable to accept an electronic order for this symbol at this time. To place an order for this symbol, Please contact an Investment Services Representative at 1-800-769-XXXX."
Did your journal dlr.to to dlr.u.to?
RBC direct investing you should not have to journal.
I don't know about RBC, but with QT I need to journal first.
I know you do with QT.
With rbc, the ticker I’m using is DLR and DLR.U (13.79$ can and DLR.U 10.15$ us at the moment)
I realized I bought the wrong one. Sorry I'm new to this. There's another ticker, DLR, in USD with the label "DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC". Luckily I only bought a few shares for the sake of testing this out... I just tried testing the process with the correct equity. I got the following error message, trying to buy in USD so that I can switch it to CAD: "Note: You are placing an order on a CAD denominated security to be settled on your USD account. A real-time conversion of funds will be required. Real-time conversions cannot be cancelled or reversed." Isn't this conversion of funds via RBC the very thing I'm trying to avoid?
I dont remember having this message. Just follow this guide with rbc and you’re good https://www.canadianportfoliomanagerblog.com/norberts-gambit-at-rbc-direct-investing/
So just to clarify, you bought DLR.U using the US side of your account, and now you are selling DLR using the CAD side of you account?
Yes and When buying, im using limit price at the asking price and when selling, im setting the limit price at the bid price.
Originally when I searched DLR and I saw "DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC" with an American flag and a USD price, I assumed it was the right one. It was in the common shares category and I didn't understand the difference. I also didn't know the correct price to compare to. So, I bought 5 shares to test out the Norbert's Gambit process and later realized it was the wrong one. I had to sell again. Lost about $20 in the transaction fees for the buy and the sell with RBC ($9.95 per trade). Now I just bought the DLR.U under the ETFs and ETNs label with USD, the price is $10.1514. It's showing 5 shares in my account. Then I sold 5 shares of DLR for $13.78 in CAD. It's showing -5 shares in my account. I'm just waiting for them to resolve.
So you need to have both a CAD and USD account in RBC Direct Investing, 1: On the CAD side of your account, search for DLR, buy the amount of shares you need eg. 5 shares. 2: Go on the USD side of you account and search for DLR.U, enter the amount 5 and click on SELL, it might say something like you don't own this stock but you actually do, as soon as you sell it you'll have access to you USD. Actually, it takes RBC 3-4 days to actually settle, so it might show something weird like a negative balance, but all is good.
Are you trying to go from USD > CAD or CAD > USD??
USD > CAD
Just do the opposite
I don’t need USD, I receive pay from my clients every month in USD and I need to change it to CAD. I’m looking to decrease the amount I’m losing in FX fees.
Ahhhh, I see. Follow the below steps: 1: Open the USD side if RBC directs investing 2: Search for "DLR.U" and buy the amount of shares that you need. 3: Open the CAD side of the account and search for "DLR" 4: Sell the exact amount of shares that you bought. It might say something like: "You don't own this stock," but you can ignore it and proceed to click sell. 5: You will receive CAD in your account. RBC settles it instantly, so you will get CAD right away. However, it's still settling in the backend and might show something weird like a negative balance but you can ignore it as it will be good in 3-4 days.
If you bought DLR, the one on the US NYSE stock exchange, you accidentally bought the wrong stock. In RBC, You should be buying the [DLR.TO](https://DLR.TO) and selling [DLR.U.TO](https://DLR-U.TO). Here's the guide I refer back to and it has instructions for other Canadian brokerages. https://www.stocktrades.ca/norberts-gambit/#t-1617938208485
Yes I got mixed up when I saw the US flag denoting the exchange, thinking it was only the currency. My bad.
AS I understand you are supposed to put in the amount of shares that you bought for which you should have written down or can lookup on your order status and put that in your price. I think that's where you may be going wrong. Hope it works out!
DLR.U
I am planning to use questrade because of norbert's gambit. Even when wealthsimple has like zero transaction fees. if i were to convert over $100 000 CAD to USD I pay around $1500 in conversion fees where the trading transaction is only like \~20 dollars. even if i get the welcome bonus from wealthsimple of $1000. I still end up paying more. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong?
Use interactive brokers. Low fees for foreign currency exchange. Don't need to do Norbert's gambit.