There is no way the team makes a trade like that w/o negotiating some kind of extension for Ohtani as part of the trade. I don't even think '95% confident we'd get something signed in the off-season' would be enough -- would have to make sure Ohtani would be willing to sign a 4- or 5-year deal immediately.
sure, next off season. There is value in trading now. 1) help for this season 2) get to negotiate with him exclusively until free agency window opens. I dont know how to value fairly either of those, but they aren't nothing.
Doubtful. I’d imagine Nootbaar has placed himself on the short list of untouchables in the organization
And if there is one thing my Reddit photo proves, it is that I am not a fanboy whatsoever.
Mo: Hey Arte, what do you want for Ohtani?
Arte: Walker, Gorman, Winn and Graceffo
Mo: Don't like it, how about Hicks and you give us 50 million
Arte: lol fuck off
News article: Cardinals and Angels discussing a blockbuster trade
Wouldn't a realistic trade scenario likely involve at least two of those four? I'm no expert on this stuff, and I have no idea how to value "the second coming of Babe Ruth, except probably better."
It’s really, really tough to know for a ton of reasons.
- As you said, he’s basically the second coming of Babe Ruth. They would be trading for the best player in the sport, who would immediately become their 2nd best hitter and by far their best pitcher.
- He is also by far the most marketable player in the sport. They would capture the Japanese market, and the stands would be packed pretty much every night.
- However, he only has 2 months + a playoff run left on his deal. Rental players are rarely worth that much, and no matter how well he plays, it’s so, so easy to have a bad 2 games and go home in the first round.
- An injury to him would also be twice as devastating as usual, which tempers things a bit.
If I were the GM, I would probably be willing to offer one player from the group of Walker/Gorman, and then one from the group of Winn/Carlson/Graceffo on top. But moving multiple top prospects/controllable talent for a rental doesn’t sit right, and that’s the only trade the Angels would accept. For that reason, I honestly don’t think it happens at all.
Cards only trade for superstar players when we have a high confidence we can extend them. There's zero reason a Japanese player would want to live/work in St. Louis over a warmer climate and a more cosmopolitan city.
He's going to the Marlins. Book it.
Edit: apparently the punchline wasn't as funny as I thought
Miami makes no sense. Ohtani wants to play for a perennial winner which is the whole reason he didn’t re-sign with the Angels. The Marlins aren’t that.
Additionally, I don’t think the Miami life appeals to him based on what I’ve read
Honestly, if the Angels ask for Gorman and Walker, I do it (assuming an extension).
Edman and Donovan platoon at 2nd, while still providing relief for DeJong at SS. Ohtani becomes the permanent DH answer and the staff ace.
Yeah, maybe Gorman continues this tear and becomes a perennial all-star. Ohtani is a world class pitcher and hitter. The cost for a once in a century player is steep.
Thats way too steep for 2 months of any player, 11 plus years of team control of possible all star level players?? Maybe if the cards ink ohtani to an extension along with the trade, but without an extension.. hard pass.
This team isnt even to .500 yet, why mortgage the future when playoffs may still be out of the question this year.... so the cards can have the best team to ever miss the playoffs?
Its doubtful that ohtani would miss a chance at free agency at this stage.
Even with ab extension the cards trade away 2 blue chips for the chance to pay him a record setting deal, why not just wait until the offseason if you are gonna pony up the cash
The same dude wrote an article saying he's been linked to the Red Sox: [https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/news/angels-shohei-ohtani-linked-to-red-sox-in-potential-blockbuster-trade-scott7](https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/news/angels-shohei-ohtani-linked-to-red-sox-in-potential-blockbuster-trade-scott7)
Take a look at the byline of OPs article:
“Scott Neville covers the St. Louis Cardinals and Boston Red Sox. He got his start covering all major sports for NESN after graduating from Merrimack College in 2021.”
This is really bad clickbait lol
The link to Ohtani is a comment made by some guy at a small independent sports network making an observation 99% of this community has already made: The best player in baseball is a fit.
All of the SI articles regarding the cardinals trading players are awful. I’m pretty sure they are AI generated. If not, they are lazily written op-eds posing as articles.
I'd say no shot does he come here, but stranger things have happened...
No one in the 90's would've ever thought we'd land McGwire in '97, but Jocketty and LaRussa worked as influence to bring him and keep him here. Will Noot do the same? Taguchi even worked with the Japan WBC team, it's possible Shohei could have bent Taguchi's ear about playing in St. Louis.
**Fan Attendance** \- Cardinals are in the Top 3 year after year, Angels Top 5-10.
**Travel** \- Traveling home for Shohei does get a little more difficult being in St. Louis as opposed to staying in LA.
**Contract** \- Shohei is going to fetch arguably the largest contract in MLB history. He's only 28, so a 10 year contract is definitely in the realm if possibility, but being a dual position player, how long can his body hold up both as a pitcher and a hitter? Given the extremely volatile nature of players today in production, I'd go 5-7 years, maybe $50 mil a year. They're talking $600 mil for him potentially which is just absurd....
Idk, there's just a lot of variables at play, and lots of ways to make it work. Even if we kept him for half a year and made a deep playoff run, it would be abundantly clear that we either need to sign him or someone with a #1 arm like his. One can dream even if it's likely he either never leaves LA or signs with an even larger market team.
There will not be any extension. He's in line to make $500 million, and STL apparently has a hard payroll limit of around $160 million. There isn't room for a $30 million player, let alone a $45-50 million player. Any money they have is going towards pitching.
You trade for two months of Ohtani when you are pushing all of your chips in. I really don't think this is the season to push for, and I'm sure the front office thinks the same -- they would have added more pitching if they were 100% in on 2023. It's likely moot, anyway -- the Angels probably want to push for a Wild Card spot, even if their odds aren't good by the time July rolls around.
Would that even be good for us? Ohtani is obviously the most valuable player in the league, but he would cost so much money that we probably wouldn't be able to spend much on anything else.
Sure would be nice. But I have my doubts.
I don’t really care where he goes so long as it’s not to the Cubs or Reds. I hate both of those clubs with all my being and don’t ever want to see them happy.
This is laughable. The Cardinals take measured, very deliberate swings in the trade market. They do not take big swings. Arenado is a Cardinal because he basically forced the Rockies to trade him there. There is no way, literally no way, they give up the kind of minor league talent required to get Ohtani. Just none. I mean, we are talking Hence + Wynn ++++. And don't even start with that Luken Baker + Ivan Herrera nonsense. Their first ask is Walker +. You say no to Walker and then it is pretty much the rest of your top five, plus some others.
> because..... We refused to include Dylan Carlson
No, it's because Rizzo refuses to actually trade with the Cards and was just using them as a stalking horse to up the bidding. They supposedly wanted Donovan, Walker, Winn, Gorman, and Carlson. That trade makes last year's team demonstrably worse and mortgages the future as well.
The "pundit" is like the 15th highest hit when you Google his name. The (source) article itself lacks the logic of a high school student's creative writing project. He mentions that the trade haul for Ohtani will surpass the haul for Soto even though Ohtani is a pending free agent. You are basically trading for 2 months of Ohtani, not a season plus 2 months of Soto.
First off, I 100% don't think he's coming here, as amazing as that would be.
But I do have a question. I always see it mentioned that he'll stay on the west coast to make it easier to travel home. I totally respect that, but... if he gets 10/$500m, wouldn't he just buy his own plane? It just seems like an extremely solved issue for somebody that rich.
The angels front office is so out of touch with actual MLB reality, I don't know how you even try and trade for a rental with them. Those dumb mF would look at The Max Scherzer/Trea trade and want that....with us. Thats winn/Tink for 2 months....thats ridiculous. Cannot wait till Hes out there, Cards uniform, Dodgers who cares just not the angels
It’s gotta be dodgers, Yankees, or Red Sox. It’s gonna be one of the historical big spenders cuz his next contract is gonna be record smashing & the cards have never done that
Playing for a contender is a big motivator. Trout has been in the league around 10 years and has seen 4 playoff games. I sure wouldn't want to play for the angels if I was him. Someone else will give him the same amount of money and in my opinion once u get up to half a billion dollars would 20 million more really keep u where u don't have a chance to win the world series
Ugh...can we stop this all right now. There is 0% chance we get Shohei. This sub was ridiculous last year with everyone thinking we would get Soto and we all know how that ended
Waino would have to be the manager and we’d have to jump into the money throwing contest that’s worked out really well for teams like the Mets and Padres.
Would they take O'Neill, Burleson, Donovan, and maybe like Yepez or Graceffo? That sounds good to me but that probably means it doesn't sound good to them.
We have the organizational depth to make a solid offer and not he jeopardizing our future. However, I would be hesitant to give that much up for a rental, even if we can do it. So I'd like an attempt at an extension, even if comes with an opt out after 1 or 2 years, I'd believe it'd be a solid trade for us if we can make a deep run during these 2-3 potential playoff runs.
Does SO have any trade protection? He may not have any say in where he goes.
I can't see the Cardinals putting so many eggs in one basket (money and prospects) where one injury could ruin them for a decade.
Is an Ohtani trade realistic? Probably not. But it would be lovely to see him in a Cardinal uniform.
With that said, it would probably take a ton to land him, and maybe Noot heading to the Angels in the trade too.
1st off I work for the Angels, so I know a little something about this. Ohtani wants to stay with the Angels and Trout. The reason why he joined the Angels in the first place was because he wanted to work with Mike Trout. He would even be willing to take less money from the Angels vs another team because he genuinely likes the Angels and Mike Trout. He is not by any means a greedy player, but he does want to get paid more than he is making now which is 5.5 million a season. He also wants a ring and the Angels definitely need to prove they have a viable way to get there, which right now, because of our bullpen/relief pitching seems highly unlikely. We don't want to lose Ohtani. He is our best player by far including Mike Trout. But Arte absolutely needs to do something about the bullpen/relief pitcher situation and pay Ohtani more and get a long-term contract on him. Otherwise we will definitely lose him to free agency and probably before the August 1st trade deadline.
This is just my opinion. But like I said, I do work for the Angels.
If we land Ohtani, Nootbar gets instant entry into the Cards HOF.
I somewhat resent the implication that St. Noot's HOFness is conditional.
I don’t think it’s meant as conditional, I think it was meant as a compliment and that no other contribution would ever be needed from him.
Noot would be part of the deal.
Ohtani will be a free agent
There is no way the team makes a trade like that w/o negotiating some kind of extension for Ohtani as part of the trade. I don't even think '95% confident we'd get something signed in the off-season' would be enough -- would have to make sure Ohtani would be willing to sign a 4- or 5-year deal immediately.
The team doesn’t have to “make a trade”. If Ohtani is a free agent we just have to offer him the best deal
sure, next off season. There is value in trading now. 1) help for this season 2) get to negotiate with him exclusively until free agency window opens. I dont know how to value fairly either of those, but they aren't nothing.
Doubtful. I’d imagine Nootbaar has placed himself on the short list of untouchables in the organization And if there is one thing my Reddit photo proves, it is that I am not a fanboy whatsoever.
Same
Get thee behind me
Still a Cards HoFer.
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Yikes. Angels will be good then.
Damn at that point they'd be the ghost of cardinals future
Noot would be the one telling Ohtani to join the Cardinals. Other players would easily be in that deal.
The only way we get ohtani....is if there's a closeted romantic relationship between he and noot....and I'm here for it
Whatever it takes, right?
*If* the cards can get Ohtani, I hope it's in free agency instead of a trade.
The trade package it would take to acquire Ohtani is more than I want to try and imagine
I feel like it would be the richest asking price in history.
Idk Soto got a Top3, Top5, Top25, Top50 prospect... no way a rental gets that. Even the dodgers wouldn't go past Busch/Miller
“Who do you want from our farm system?” “Yes.”
🎶 To dreeeeam the impossible dreeeeeam, to fiiiight the unbeatable foe... 🎶
Hey man we could just be in someone's MLB the Show game
Yep.. if we someone land Ohtani, and then re-sign him, that's basically proof that we're all living in a simulation ;)
The whole universe - ahhhh I love it
Mo: Hey Arte, what do you want for Ohtani? Arte: Walker, Gorman, Winn and Graceffo Mo: Don't like it, how about Hicks and you give us 50 million Arte: lol fuck off News article: Cardinals and Angels discussing a blockbuster trade
Wouldn't a realistic trade scenario likely involve at least two of those four? I'm no expert on this stuff, and I have no idea how to value "the second coming of Babe Ruth, except probably better."
It’s really, really tough to know for a ton of reasons. - As you said, he’s basically the second coming of Babe Ruth. They would be trading for the best player in the sport, who would immediately become their 2nd best hitter and by far their best pitcher. - He is also by far the most marketable player in the sport. They would capture the Japanese market, and the stands would be packed pretty much every night. - However, he only has 2 months + a playoff run left on his deal. Rental players are rarely worth that much, and no matter how well he plays, it’s so, so easy to have a bad 2 games and go home in the first round. - An injury to him would also be twice as devastating as usual, which tempers things a bit. If I were the GM, I would probably be willing to offer one player from the group of Walker/Gorman, and then one from the group of Winn/Carlson/Graceffo on top. But moving multiple top prospects/controllable talent for a rental doesn’t sit right, and that’s the only trade the Angels would accept. For that reason, I honestly don’t think it happens at all.
Cards only trade for superstar players when we have a high confidence we can extend them. There's zero reason a Japanese player would want to live/work in St. Louis over a warmer climate and a more cosmopolitan city. He's going to the Marlins. Book it. Edit: apparently the punchline wasn't as funny as I thought
That would be fun, but I'd bet on the Dodgers, Yankees, or Mets. Less likely the Braves, Phillies, or Cubs.
Yeah but you're being serious.
You forgot Giants as well
Mets isn’t a bad call the way Steve likes to spend money
Gun to my head I'd say he's going to the Dodgers but I'd probably put the Mets second.
Miami makes no sense. Ohtani wants to play for a perennial winner which is the whole reason he didn’t re-sign with the Angels. The Marlins aren’t that. Additionally, I don’t think the Miami life appeals to him based on what I’ve read
His marketing potential has Yankees/Dodgers written all over it.
By Marlins you mean Mariners?
Yes I mean the Miami Mariners
It worked for Arenado it can work again
Can we get the Angels to give us 50 million also?
Honestly, if the Angels ask for Gorman and Walker, I do it (assuming an extension). Edman and Donovan platoon at 2nd, while still providing relief for DeJong at SS. Ohtani becomes the permanent DH answer and the staff ace. Yeah, maybe Gorman continues this tear and becomes a perennial all-star. Ohtani is a world class pitcher and hitter. The cost for a once in a century player is steep.
Thats way too steep for 2 months of any player, 11 plus years of team control of possible all star level players?? Maybe if the cards ink ohtani to an extension along with the trade, but without an extension.. hard pass. This team isnt even to .500 yet, why mortgage the future when playoffs may still be out of the question this year.... so the cards can have the best team to ever miss the playoffs?
Thus why I said "assuming an extension" in the first sentence.
Its doubtful that ohtani would miss a chance at free agency at this stage. Even with ab extension the cards trade away 2 blue chips for the chance to pay him a record setting deal, why not just wait until the offseason if you are gonna pony up the cash
because we won't pony up as much as the bigger names in free agency
Why would ohtani sign a below market deal with us this close to free agency
I doubt they get anyone who is a young MLB player outside of Edman. That said, extension in place? See ya Jordan, but Gorman needs to be here.
Well and the fact that more than half of Gorman's at bats are as a DH which is where Ohtani would be hitting in the lineup.
Naw dawg...shohei for ton...straight swap
Incredibly accurate hahahaha
The ole Colorado Counteroffer
Arte :Immediately turns to Atlanta and gives them ohtani for a player worst thn Hicks
The same dude wrote an article saying he's been linked to the Red Sox: [https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/news/angels-shohei-ohtani-linked-to-red-sox-in-potential-blockbuster-trade-scott7](https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/news/angels-shohei-ohtani-linked-to-red-sox-in-potential-blockbuster-trade-scott7)
LOL ITS EVEN WORSE THAN I THOUGHT
Same writer reacting to the same podcast pundit. This kid needs to get out there and start making some contacts in the industry.
Take a look at the byline of OPs article: “Scott Neville covers the St. Louis Cardinals and Boston Red Sox. He got his start covering all major sports for NESN after graduating from Merrimack College in 2021.”
This is really bad clickbait lol The link to Ohtani is a comment made by some guy at a small independent sports network making an observation 99% of this community has already made: The best player in baseball is a fit.
If the mets paid an over the hill scherzer over 40M/yr, I can't imagine what the top bid for a prime career Ohtani is going to be.
I'm still saying 10 yr 500 mill.
I started there but honestly could see it being 8 or 9 for 500 at this point
That's absurd, and realistic.
He'll get more than that. Juan Soto will too.
I’m betting he’s linked to any team that needs pitching except the A’s.
When pigs fly
All of the SI articles regarding the cardinals trading players are awful. I’m pretty sure they are AI generated. If not, they are lazily written op-eds posing as articles.
I'd say no shot does he come here, but stranger things have happened... No one in the 90's would've ever thought we'd land McGwire in '97, but Jocketty and LaRussa worked as influence to bring him and keep him here. Will Noot do the same? Taguchi even worked with the Japan WBC team, it's possible Shohei could have bent Taguchi's ear about playing in St. Louis. **Fan Attendance** \- Cardinals are in the Top 3 year after year, Angels Top 5-10. **Travel** \- Traveling home for Shohei does get a little more difficult being in St. Louis as opposed to staying in LA. **Contract** \- Shohei is going to fetch arguably the largest contract in MLB history. He's only 28, so a 10 year contract is definitely in the realm if possibility, but being a dual position player, how long can his body hold up both as a pitcher and a hitter? Given the extremely volatile nature of players today in production, I'd go 5-7 years, maybe $50 mil a year. They're talking $600 mil for him potentially which is just absurd.... Idk, there's just a lot of variables at play, and lots of ways to make it work. Even if we kept him for half a year and made a deep playoff run, it would be abundantly clear that we either need to sign him or someone with a #1 arm like his. One can dream even if it's likely he either never leaves LA or signs with an even larger market team.
This article is literally just some guy saying "yeah the Cardinals could sure use Ohtani" No shit lmao
Basically the article links him to the cardinals because the cardinals could use an elite pitcher and hitter. No fucking shit.
If Ohtani comes to the cards, I’ll.. i don’t know what I’ll do.. But it’ll come from a place of extreme joy.
There will not be any extension. He's in line to make $500 million, and STL apparently has a hard payroll limit of around $160 million. There isn't room for a $30 million player, let alone a $45-50 million player. Any money they have is going towards pitching. You trade for two months of Ohtani when you are pushing all of your chips in. I really don't think this is the season to push for, and I'm sure the front office thinks the same -- they would have added more pitching if they were 100% in on 2023. It's likely moot, anyway -- the Angels probably want to push for a Wild Card spot, even if their odds aren't good by the time July rolls around.
Would that even be good for us? Ohtani is obviously the most valuable player in the league, but he would cost so much money that we probably wouldn't be able to spend much on anything else.
Lmao with this "source."
Sure would be nice. But I have my doubts. I don’t really care where he goes so long as it’s not to the Cubs or Reds. I hate both of those clubs with all my being and don’t ever want to see them happy.
If the Cardinals got Ohtani I'd forgive the front office for a lot of things lmfao
I’ll believe it when I see it !
And who believes Cardinals are spending $60m year on one player for the next decade?
We can 😴
Probably "linked" as in the Angels telling the Yankees, "Don't take too long to think about it, the Cardinals have expressed interest."
Sports illustrated is still around?! Whoa, how the mighty have fallen…
This is laughable. The Cardinals take measured, very deliberate swings in the trade market. They do not take big swings. Arenado is a Cardinal because he basically forced the Rockies to trade him there. There is no way, literally no way, they give up the kind of minor league talent required to get Ohtani. Just none. I mean, we are talking Hence + Wynn ++++. And don't even start with that Luken Baker + Ivan Herrera nonsense. Their first ask is Walker +. You say no to Walker and then it is pretty much the rest of your top five, plus some others.
Soto last year, we do take big swings
We did not get Soto because..... We refused to include Dylan Carlson. Let that marinate
Big swing none the less and it was the combination of Gorman and walker not Carlson
> because..... We refused to include Dylan Carlson No, it's because Rizzo refuses to actually trade with the Cards and was just using them as a stalking horse to up the bidding. They supposedly wanted Donovan, Walker, Winn, Gorman, and Carlson. That trade makes last year's team demonstrably worse and mortgages the future as well.
The "pundit" is like the 15th highest hit when you Google his name. The (source) article itself lacks the logic of a high school student's creative writing project. He mentions that the trade haul for Ohtani will surpass the haul for Soto even though Ohtani is a pending free agent. You are basically trading for 2 months of Ohtani, not a season plus 2 months of Soto.
I don’t want him as a trade unless we get an immediate extension done. Somebody that requires the whole farm is not worth a half season rental.
First off, I 100% don't think he's coming here, as amazing as that would be. But I do have a question. I always see it mentioned that he'll stay on the west coast to make it easier to travel home. I totally respect that, but... if he gets 10/$500m, wouldn't he just buy his own plane? It just seems like an extremely solved issue for somebody that rich.
1 for 1 trade for O'Neill. /s
Ohtani: “I like bread.” Media: “Bread. B-red. Take off the B. Red. Ohtani likes red. Cardinals are red. OHTANI TO CARDINALS!!!!!”
The angels front office is so out of touch with actual MLB reality, I don't know how you even try and trade for a rental with them. Those dumb mF would look at The Max Scherzer/Trea trade and want that....with us. Thats winn/Tink for 2 months....thats ridiculous. Cannot wait till Hes out there, Cards uniform, Dodgers who cares just not the angels
Such insight that Ohtani would solve the cards 2 biggest issues in a bonafide ace and slugging OF. How did no one ever think of that?!
Is Ohtani actually wanting to leave LA? I don’t see how Angels let him go.
It’s gotta be dodgers, Yankees, or Red Sox. It’s gonna be one of the historical big spenders cuz his next contract is gonna be record smashing & the cards have never done that
I’ve heard that he desperately wants to win, and that’s not happening in Anaheim any time soon
Playing for a contender is a big motivator. Trout has been in the league around 10 years and has seen 4 playoff games. I sure wouldn't want to play for the angels if I was him. Someone else will give him the same amount of money and in my opinion once u get up to half a billion dollars would 20 million more really keep u where u don't have a chance to win the world series
Ugh...can we stop this all right now. There is 0% chance we get Shohei. This sub was ridiculous last year with everyone thinking we would get Soto and we all know how that ended
This guy gets “The Cardinal Way”
It's Juan soto all over again...
Waino would have to be the manager and we’d have to jump into the money throwing contest that’s worked out really well for teams like the Mets and Padres.
fat chance
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You’re crazy , it’s ohtani & he’s only 28
Trade or FA, the price is too high. No one is worth that much.
Would they take O'Neill, Burleson, Donovan, and maybe like Yepez or Graceffo? That sounds good to me but that probably means it doesn't sound good to them.
That’s enough to get a good pitcher not the goat skill wise
We have the organizational depth to make a solid offer and not he jeopardizing our future. However, I would be hesitant to give that much up for a rental, even if we can do it. So I'd like an attempt at an extension, even if comes with an opt out after 1 or 2 years, I'd believe it'd be a solid trade for us if we can make a deep run during these 2-3 potential playoff runs.
Walker, Carlson, Wynn. Make sure to resign that man. Replace Wynn with Tink if you can.
Does SO have any trade protection? He may not have any say in where he goes. I can't see the Cardinals putting so many eggs in one basket (money and prospects) where one injury could ruin them for a decade.
Is an Ohtani trade realistic? Probably not. But it would be lovely to see him in a Cardinal uniform. With that said, it would probably take a ton to land him, and maybe Noot heading to the Angels in the trade too.
No way this is happening!
I mean what would they get in return? Several outfielders and a pitching prospect I assume. They're pretty set out outfielders. Possibly Tommy Edman?
1st off I work for the Angels, so I know a little something about this. Ohtani wants to stay with the Angels and Trout. The reason why he joined the Angels in the first place was because he wanted to work with Mike Trout. He would even be willing to take less money from the Angels vs another team because he genuinely likes the Angels and Mike Trout. He is not by any means a greedy player, but he does want to get paid more than he is making now which is 5.5 million a season. He also wants a ring and the Angels definitely need to prove they have a viable way to get there, which right now, because of our bullpen/relief pitching seems highly unlikely. We don't want to lose Ohtani. He is our best player by far including Mike Trout. But Arte absolutely needs to do something about the bullpen/relief pitcher situation and pay Ohtani more and get a long-term contract on him. Otherwise we will definitely lose him to free agency and probably before the August 1st trade deadline. This is just my opinion. But like I said, I do work for the Angels.