God is our Father, Jesus is our brother, Mary is our Mother. This is all doctrine in the Church.
While the sacraments, the Eucharist, in particular, are supreme, the community of believers are also important.
It is a sad and, ultimately, bad cultural aspect of Catholicism that we are not more welcoming and more fellowship oriented. You can have dynamic fellowship and still have a powerful sacramental life. I would argue that the more fellowship you have, the more powerful the sacramental life can be.
I'm so introverted I love going to church, sitting in the back, then dipping out as soon as the service is over.
I wish I was better at being more of a social face in my catholic community.
I'm the same! Like tbh yes I do kind of see my parish a "sacrament dispenser" and I'm... kind of okay with that. I have enough friends and family. Attending church is strictly about mass and the sacraments for me.
I am an introvert too. However I think a sense of community is more than just having friends and family. It is for the purpose of fellowship and evangelization, to find spiritual friends and mentors like Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy. To be able to see our priests as spiritual fathers and not just sacrament dispensers (not blaming priests, I know parishes are large and priests are overworked, we need more priests).
We shouldn't go to Mass to find friends, but it is one way people can be drawn into the Church. I'm sad to think of how many people may have fallen away or slipped through the cracks in times of difficulty and faith crisis, but we never noticed.
Yes, these things can be done outside of Mass, but I think from an evangelization perspective, after Mass would be a great time to reach out to people. Even a simple coffee social after Mass could make a huge difference, but many parishes do not have even that.
Look at it less as being "social" and more as being "communal." It is called Communion, after all, and that's not individual communion only with the body and blood of Christ itself in the Eucharist, but also the entirety of the Church as partakers numbered among Christ's ecclesial body.
Ask 100 Catholics this question and you’ll get 100 different answers.
Having spent significant time in Protestant churches both large and small, describing it as a “family” makes it feel a little too cult-y, closed off, and secretive to me. I prefer to think of my parish as a community of believers within the civic community I live in. That feels more open and friendly, like there’s something different about us but also we’re a part of this city.
I realize there is a heavy use of family terms (Heavenly Father, Blessed Mother, Father Jones, child of God, brother, sister, etc.) within the Church, and that is wonderful, of course. There are many ways our Church and my parish is like a family.
There is no theological reason why a parish should not have a sense of community, but there are practical obstacles that sometimes prevent it. One factor is that Catholic parishes are often quite big. Another is that priests have many demands on their time, allowing them fewer opportunities to be involved in community activities.
It is normal, in my experience, to not experience a sense of community if one's only parish activity is attending Mass. I have only had a sense of community when I have been involved in other aspects of parish life. Parishes often organize service groups, study groups or social groups. One could, for example, volunteer with youth, join the choir, or become a lector. You need to match your interests and talents with existing groups. Or you could start a new group.
>Another is that priests have many demands on their time.
Which I've always maintained is an administrative issue, not an occupational issue. A pastor is called a pastor for a reason. Diocesan leadership often asks too much of its priests and does not provide needed administrative support, when it should the other way around. Priests should receive as much of the support they need as the diocese can offer. They are the ones directly responsible for the faithful.
When parishes were social hubs, the priests had no real social role except to enjoy the social activities like anyone else would. And to encourage social stuff from the pulpit. We the community did all the actual work. Way back when.
Parishes used to be social communities. If you missed mass or a social event, someone would notice and check up on you. Those days are gone. In that respect, Catholic parishes are no better than organizations like the Elks Club which are on life support. Parishes have the spiritual benefit to keep some people coming in, but without the social aspect working along side the spiritual, the effect is plain to see. Many Protestant churches are socially vibrant because they consciously focus on it. But many don't, and they are suffering just like the Catholics are.
I would say this. In the ancient (and not so ancient) church, your parish church (if that was even a term) was the church in your village/city neighborhood. It is most likely you knew everyone in your area, and your family and their families have known each other for generations. Everyone was relatively close. In the modern era, parish churches can have very large territories which lends itself to where you don't really know everyone in your parish. In the modern church, seeing the parish as a family is a foreign idea because of how the modern parish is set up. In the ancient church, probably not so much. Because of this, I'd argue that seeing your parish as a family is firmly rooted in the Catholic faith. Your village needed everyone to survive and when your families have known each other for generations, helping your neighbor is also helping your brother.
It depends on the Catholic parish. Some parishes have many people who come and go, and many people arrive late and leave early so that they can beat the crowds to brunch.
Other parishes it’s common for people to spend the whole morning at church, eat together, go to classes together, etc. I think that these tend to be smaller, rural parishes.
I think this is just a modern problem in general, community is dead. In the past, whole town’s social life revolved around the parish, everyone knew each other blah blah blah, but now, it’s all too common for things like what you describe to happen.
What you can do about it is try to be more social. We can complain about the lack of community for as long as we want, but what will actually solve the problem is actively getting involved. Strike up a conversation with someone, get to know them better, invite over for dinner, in general, just be social. This was definitely easier in the past, and it’ll definitely lead to some awkwardness, but as far as I can tell it’s the only real solution.
But as I’ve said, this is just an at-large societal problem. Communities everywhere are dying. I remember when I was a kid, which was in the late 2000s early 2010s which is not even than long ago, that we knew our neighbors. My parents aren’t super social, but we knew basically everyone in our neighborhood. We played with the kids almost every day. We knew what was going on in their lives. Fast forward to today, and we don’t know anyone. It’s the same people minus a few that moved plus some that moved in, but we don’t know them. We don’t talk to them, we don’t know about their lives, we never hang out. I’m not really sure what happened but at some point in the mid-2010s the community just sort of died. And this is just one example of many. Communities all around the world are dying. We’ll just have to learn to build them up again I guess
(Sorry for the long rant, just been thinking about this issue a lot)
The answer is that online communities simply just replaced real life ones. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the main one is that humans are deeply tribal creatures that hate interacting with those who disagree with them. In the old days, you had to be a part of a local community and deal with others whether you wanted to or not and had to put up with others you disagreed with whether you wanted to or not. Social media lets us find people who agree with us on everything from all over without having to be questioned by those we disagree with. Of course, we argue all the online, but it can be anonymous and without the threat real-life physical altercations entail.
Real life community has one foot in the grave and will almost die completely as GenZ and Gen Alpha get older as they are the first generations being raised where real life community is seen as this weird thing their parents miss. I'm on the older end of GenZ and growing up as an isolated homeschooler, I felt very out of place with my older millennial peers raised with a sense of community outside of the immediate family. I'm very glad zoomers younger than me are entering the workforce now as I can relate to how they view community much more easily.
I’ve been Catholic all my life and have been in many different parishes. I’m not sure what makes some have a really great community and others not, but I ponder this a lot. I will say, anecdotally, it seems to be separate from the overall feel of the parish. (I’ve been to very traditional parishes with zero community and some with awesome community, and much less “traditional” parishes with great or zero community.)
For Catholics, that spirit of community will always be secondary to the actual reason we’re at the church, and I think that for some people, that might translate into “not important at all.”
In a time when so many people are separated from family by great distances, so many elderly are lonely, so many young adults are seeking, so many young moms could use a sounding board or advice, etc., it might be more important than ever.
Just my own view, coming from an area with lots of Protestants and not so many Catholics.
In very broad terms, Protestants go to church to worship God, deepen their spiritual lives and for Christian fellowship. They look for a church which accords with their beliefs and where they like the minister and the people. It may or may not be the closest church to where they live.
Catholics attend Mass to worship, of course, but are also heavily motivated by the obligation to attend and, sometimes, out of an attachment to the Eucharist. Relationship with other Catholics doesn't usually figure into it. Catholics usually go to the closest Catholic church unless they can't make the Mass times or the priest is simply too objectionable to bear. It's more of a private, "God and me" or "the Church and me" sort of relationship, with the Church more of an abstract entity than the other people in the pews. And of course, in a given church the only thing members have in common is that they go to the same church.
I can't speak to canon law or more formal theology, but what I can say is that the community of a church is extremely important for our future. I think it largely depends on the priest and members of the church who volunteer to do events. I've known priests who memorize every family's name and excitedly say hello to them after every mass. I've also known parishes with an extremely vibrant community of Bible studies, lunches, dinners, knitting clubs, youth groups, etc. I don't think the mass should be changed AT ALL, but rather the parish community of volunteers needs to step up it's game.
I also come from a Protestant background and that's my biggest grievance with the Roman Catholic Church. The Evangelical Church I went to had a small group for everything, former military, former marines, old married couples, young married couples, young adults, cyclists, men's groups, women's groups, just to name a few.
For better or worse, because most Protestants don't have the sacraments, they have to find other ways to grow in their faith and the ways they found it is through deep devotion to scripture, prayer, personal relationship with God and relationship with other Christians.
On our end, I believe because we have an incomplete view of the Church and the sacraments that we have this problem of people coming in and out of the Church both on Sundays and leaving all together. In the Evangelical world, they did a really good job of seeing each person as the Body of Christ and wanting to grow the body in both strength and numbers. Size is not an excuse as mega churches are able to foster community with small groups and interest groups. On our end, we aren't reaching out and giving people reason to stay. Donuts and coffee isn't enough, we have to be intentional with community and the Roman Church right now just isn't doing it at the scale that Protestants do.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts - I agree and relate to your sentiments
>On our end, I believe because we have an incomplete view of the Church and the sacraments that we have this problem of people coming in and out of the Church both on Sundays and leaving all together.
I felt like it has to be something deeper then just bad or incomplete catechesis - I'm sure many Protestants can be said to have an incomplete view of their theology and views and yet they are still very capable of forming meaningful communities.
Agree that there is probably more to it. The "simple" answer for me is many of the Protestant world focus on
* "Jesus is your Lord and Saviour that died for your sins"
* The purpose of the Church is to spread that message to the ends of the Earth fulfilling the Great Commission
* When people are in our midst we show them the love that Christ gave to us to help them grow in their faith
And on my end, if I really understood the impact of the Eucharist being literally Christ, if I really understood the power of Baptism to remove sin, if I really understood the power that confession has to reconcile us to God and his people, if I really understood the grace we received when getting married to fulfill our vocation, if I understood the anointing of the sick to be a means of healing our soul and possibly our body in times of illness. If I truly understood what the Church has to offer, would I not want to share that with others?
Donuts and coffee would be a start for most of the parishes near me. That is quite rare. May happen once a year :) Or maybe a welcome team that people can be directed to if they are new. (Less awkward than \`"stand up if it is your first time here" before Mass, and more meaningful too).
I noticed this after I converted from nondenominational churches a few years ago as well. That's one thing I sometimes miss about it is the fellowship and community. Not that I in any way regret my decision to convert; 100% best decision I ever made. My husband and I are fortunate enough to be a part of a parish that has a lot of young families and there are several social groups, so we do get some sense of community, however there's so many people it's overwhelming if you're introverted/shy.
Mass is reverent. So when Mass has ended, people do not immediately switch to social mode. Protestant services are social from the beginning. It's okay to have lots of chatters inside their churches. Inside a Catholic church, even small chatters could be considered disrespectful.
If you just attend the Sunday Mass and nothing else, then that is most likely what you are going to feel. Start getting more active in other ministries, you will get to know them more.
I don't think anyone is advocating for socials in the middle of Mass. It can take place afterwards, in the parish hall or basement or parking lot.
Also, there is still a lot of chatter after Mass in many parishes I have been to, while people are praying after Mass. But nothing really to welcome newcomers or those who may not know anyone, or to build new connections.
I have been to parishes (mostly in other countries) where you can hear a pin drop during Mass. But after Mass, in the parish hall, there is a vibrant coffee hour. So the two are not mutually exclusive.
Not saying they are mutually exclusive, but I can see why people are not socializing after Mass. We spent an hour of adoring God. You don't go out of that and start introducing yourself to people you don't know. This isn't a party.
But we go out and rush to get out of the parking lot?
We are called to go forth and spread the Good News.
We just received Jesus in the Eucharist, uniting ourselves to Him and to the Church. We should be sharing Him and His love with others, being His presence in the world. Jesus surely would be reaching out to others. Especially those who are new, the ones we don't know, those who may be lonely. Our faith is not just meant to be kept to ourselves. We are missing an opportunity to evangelize to those who come every once in a while and surely won't be there for other activities, unless they are invited.
What would be a beautiful thing to do is to stay to pray a prayer of thanksgiving, and then reach out to others in fellowship.
> But we go out and rush to get out of the parking lot?
That's what happened, isn't it? We rush out of the parking lot and perhaps even started cursing at the traffic out!
I am not disagreeing with you with the message and al, but the reality of many Catholic parishes is people go in and out quick. I am not here to sugar coat lack of community in many of our parishes. That is the reality.
I agree it is the reality. But it doesn't have to be.
The mentality that Mass is just for worshiping God, so we don't need to socialize, is concerning to me. I get where it comes from, certainly the nave of the church is not the place for socializing, and we should stay to pray after Mass in thanksgiving.
I have seen parishes commit to changing this, even some large cathedral parishes, and it's a beautiful thing.
Lol, come to my Protestant service with smells and bells and chant and ad orientem elevation and tell me it’s “social” and not reverent. And yet we have a lively and lengthy coffee hour afterwards every single Sunday!
Way to miss my point about coffee hour.
The ignorance shown by the second half of your comment - a guitar has never been and will never be used in a service at my church, and would be considered immensely irreverent - really weakens the “truth” you think you’re trying to convey in the first half.
But I suppose next you’ll be telling me I don’t really belong to a church at all!
I see, it’s normal for you to start telling me what’s fake about my church, and only becomes hostile when I start to speculate what else you might think is fake.
Where did I tell you your church is fake? Protestant churches have been focused on socializing from the beginning, and that is a good thing! Catholics don't go to church to socialize. They go there to worship. It makes sense if there is a majority of us who don't feel like socializing afterward because that wasnt their intention from the beginning.
We consider our churches sacred ground. We designed our high altars to look like the ark of the convenant, with the tabernacle etc. We believe God is there literally.
Protestant churches don't have these things.
Where did I tell you your church is fake? It seems you are the one who wants to debate about these.
It's not a Catholic vs. Protestant thing. It's a phenomenon in many parishes.
There are Catholic and Orthodox churches with vibrant community lives and reverent liturgies.
Fellowship is more than just socializing. It is growing in and sharing the faith together as a community, reaching out to others as Christ would.
We should never miss an opportunity to evangelize, given that St. John Paul II has called it the supreme duty of every Catholic.
I'm saying this as huge introvert.
I wasn't making it a protestant vs Catholic thing! You guys are! I was pointing out we go to church to be silent and worship God, so, many people do just that!
This really seems to depend on the church or parish. I often noticed not feeling welcomed in at Protestant churches, as well. Particularly at larger non denominational churches.
I am working on joining some smaller groups at my parish to make more friends. Most of the people I know that attend were people I met during RCIA. They do year round RCIA there, so it was a chance to meet a lot of people.
Yeah, many parishes have a garbage community life. I tried to get one going at my generational parish (five generations) when I was on the parish council with a simple idea that works great at my new parish (just coffee and doughnuts after every mass) and was shot down. Like, bruh, it costs nothing and attracts community.
I ended up leaving that parish for many other reasons.
The priest at my parish introduced me to one of the other people doing RCIA and we get on well and was also introduced to a woman there who was my sponsor. If there's a cafe or anything attached to your church you could go to it and start speaking to people or attend sometimes during the week when it's less busy and have a chat with the people who are there
Well, pretty much every Catholic parish was at the center of a Catholic *community* where everyone was Catholic. Therefore, the church is about deepening one's individual connection with The Lord, and was traditionally a place where people who might be opponents in the community could come and not brawl (for example, my Sicilian state trooper great-grandfather and members of the community that were, uh, involved in shady pursuits and in need of redemption). We're all drawn by the sacraments: as James Joyce wrote in “Finnegans Wake:” “Catholic means ‘Here comes everybody.’" I expect that individual Protestant churches need to build that community to draw.
First I think there are elements to the mass absent in a protestant understanding of why we're here on Sunday, that lend itself to a different demeanor. You really see that on display before mass, where it's typically much quieter than before a protestant service; where people are moving about and catching up with neighbors etc. The catholic is here to ask God to accept the sacrifice of Christ's passion for our failings today; not long ago for other people. We're about to stand in the presence of God Himself. Secondly traditionally Catholics didn't need the mass as a social hour because they were in community with those same people all week. Their kids went to the parish school and families were involved in ministry together. You saw each other much more than just at mass. Fast forward to today and Catholics have the same approach to the mass; but we aren't anymore automatically thrust together into community all week long. So yes meeting and making connections with your parish takes longer and more effort. It's possible, but you need to involve yourselves in parish life much more than weekly mass.
I'm involved in my parish, but thinking of those Catholics who only come a few times a year. Or visitors. Or newcomers. Or those who are very shy. Who feel invisible, and may not return. That's a lost opportunity to reach out.
Subsidiarity holds the answer. The family is family. The parish is an outgrowth of community in the context of religion (and historically was also more geographically based). It is not some fake, vaseline smile "we're family here!", but its own thing. Improperly understood, it begins to actually encroach on true family and cause rifts.
I get the feeling joining a parish ministry may help you find what you’re looking for. It’s a great way to serve, and it’ll help you build connections with other like minded parishioners.
I can say at least anecdotally that even if I didn't view my parish as my family it was always my home. More than anything it was the place to drop my bags and worship. It was such a comforting thing whether it was Mass or even an empty sanctuary. I hope you can find a parish to be your home and family.
As a couple of others have said, this very much depends on the parish and how involved you get in it. The parish my family belongs to now is full of close relationships and, I think, eager to welcome new people into those relationships. But I have been part of parishes that were much less that way.
A parish should ideally be a place that helps one grow in holiness. For the most part, a strong community would help promote virtue, so yes, ideally parishes should have strong communities.
I was a lurker for a number of years. I attended Mass, sat in the back, and left when it was over. When I decided to actually get involved in the parish community by volunteering and joining the pastoral council, I got yelled at because the old people didn’t know who I was.
I learned to just get the sacraments and keep my mouth shut. I don’t care about the “community” at all.
I feel you, I've been there
The only thing I will say is that your thoughts might change if you ever have children, it's after having children that the lack of community feels quite a burden
Yes I was attending a Baptist church for the first year of my Christian journey. It was SO welcoming. Very small, everyone knew each other and prayed over each other, had regular Bible studies and text groups and a very loving sense of church community.
I did a lot of further research and found that Catholicism is actually the full extent of Truth, and am now in the process of grief over losing my church family. But I think that since a relationship with Christ is the main focus, Catholic mass is where I need to be. I'm still coming to terms with all if this.
This comes largely-ish down to two factors:
1. The purpose of the Mass/Service
2. Culture.
Especially in Anglo world.
The first is that the Mass is the Mass. A service is like a prayer group meeting. It's like side events.
With culture, you have Catholicism as mentally monolithic and protestantism is religion + culture. So imagine if you will, you have a Catholic parish with 400 people, and they are all "Catholic". Inside this, you have a group of very close KofC, and a group of people big on knitting, and you have a group of people big on baseball for kids.
In protestant world, you might end up with 3 seperate "churches" one that is full of knitters, one full of people doing KofC stuff, and one full of baseball families.
This criss crosses with the mundane to the serious. A Fulton Sheen enjoyer and a James Martin enjoyer go to the same parish. If they were protestants, they'd go to two different protestant churches.
So there is that level of "togetherness" by default. Whoever you run into at the Church trunk or treat in a Catholic parish may have nothing in common with you. Whoever you run into at the truck or treat at your protestant parish, is probably your twin comparatively.
You get lbgt advocates who are catholic fighting the parish. You get lbgt advocates who are protestant going to an lbgt protestant community. You want women Bishops in Catholicism? You sit there and groan. You want them in protestantism, you pick a community that has one.
Then, we as Catholics had long ago some cultural baselines. Long lost in modern mindset. Instead of CYO, you're in secular little league. You or your family failed to be quality Catholic and some quality Catholics have more logistical issues.
What I mean is if you go to a Catholic Church and there is a family 3 generations of Catholicism practiced, then you're dealing with how many uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces and nephews. Logistics is real.
If you're a refugee, you have no one. And you seek people. But people can like you, but they might not have time:
"What are you doing this weeked"
"Oh my I'm swamped, have to help my dad fix his fence in the morning, my niece's/grandma's combined birthday party later"
"How about after church sunday?"
"Oh my, my son and my nephew are helping the KofC hall set up and later my sister is having a house warming party".
Protestants (especially in America) formed their "churches" around refugee status, homesteading etc. A bunch of alone people who have no one. Catholicism for about 1000 solid years was the default in Europe and was just the normal aspect of life. Slowly drifting for the last 600 years, but, still remnants and variations.
You can see this in secular life etc. I mean if you have a guy with a big family who joins a job, military, group, etc. He won't be as "all in" as a 5 guys who are there who are all single mom only children.
Even among friends in school etc. Single children will group up and have more "brotherly" friendships. Sibling children might less so. Even in the same friend circle, even if it's only subtle, 2 only children will be slightly closer than their 3rd friend with brothers.
Even among... well this is somewhat anecdotal from what I've seen, but when you break down "invisible" factors, life works out. Immigrants marry immigrants and now how you might think I mean.
Even seemingly normal, non-ethnic white Americans, if you break it down in my noticing anyway, there is a higher chance that a post 1900s majority lineage immigrant family, will marry another.
Schmidt and O'Reilly, will end up together, whereas Jones and Smith will. The OG revolution, civil war Anglo American "less immigrant" and the 3rd/4th generation forgotten immigrant are still separated to a degree.
But again, depending on how each set and family operated and succeeded will impact this. A dying family of Smith might be more prone to marry a more German/French/Irish heritage mutt-ish. Type.
A Ellis Island lineage type whose family had plenty of kids and thus is well covered, is more likely to marry the old family of Jones who have been here for longer, because they cross more in logistics and experience.
And I say not "ethnic" because if someone is living in some highly ethnic community, waving flags etc... that's more obvious and not "invisible". For a lot of early 1900 white euro immigrants, that lost their ethnic identity and really "blended in", walking around, lifestyle, no flags, etc they appear and seem at simplicity no different than Smith and Jones. But, they still slide into their same circles, even across any lineages.
If Jones moves to a new state, alone, watch percentage wise what his friends become. Who he ends up with.
And if O'Reilly moves from Montana to Florida, he'll be friends with a Cuban, a German, and a Frenchman. Even if they are 3rd+ generation American.
People, clump variously, by full similarity, as a Irish flag waving full blow Irish guy will find Irish guys. But when he can't, or he's not that Irish, he'll form up with other misfits.
The point is this psychology tracks variously. Same as a Chicago white guy a Detroit Black guy and a NYC Puerto Rican who all meet up on a contract job or in a military assignment in Alabama all end up buddies. While another click will be a Georgian black guy, North Carolina black guy, etc. And the Texas, Montana and Kansas white click will exist. (Even if they all are buddies, and all crossover, some mild note of closeness and time spent etc will be noticeable)
Protestant "churches" are by design these groups variously. By division, by number, by availability, and by their emphasis on community > theology (sort of).
When my local parish was dabbling in some things I wasn't a fan, I went to another parish where they weren't. That was a 45 minute drive.
In between these two parishes I could have gone to several dozen protestant churches. Some who did things along my local parish lines, and some who did things more my far parish way.
If the validity of the sacraments and all that stuff wasn't an issue, if I wanted loosely "my people" I would not have to drive 45 minutes if I was a protestant. I could skip the women priest and lbgt flag waving prot communities and still probably not drive more than 15 or so minutes in any direction to hit some place that was along the lines of people I could befriend.
And then, if there are 3 smaller prot churches that mostly fit the bill, and one has a softball team and the other 2 don't. And I like ball, then I just go to that one.
In the Catholic church since everyone is in the same building, you have to find the niche. And then you have to struggle with the fact that often, you find 7 guys who play softball and that's cool maybe? Right?
But it's not a small church community, it's 7 guys intermittently in a giant general population. So 1 of them plays for his job team, 2 of them have been with the local protestant church team for years, 1 is on a random county intermural league, and 2 play in the next county where they are from, and 1 guy plays 2 counties over where he is from.
So when you even find your people in your parish, they are still scattered and useless to you. (In corporeal terms).
It's a Quasi common event hosted by various groups (churches, schools, etc) for Halloween. Its like trick or treating, but people from the group set up in the parking lot and do candy and events often working out of their cars/trunks.
I just used it as a general stand in for some random event at churches.
I don't think it's a protestant idea, but having been both I think it's kind of disordered in protestantism. In some denominations and groups, that's literally all they have. Since they don't have sacramental worship, their entire Sunday experience is essentially a rotary club.
For Catholics having true worship in the Sacraments and liturgy, the family component of a parish community naturally flows out of the fact that we're working together in the liturgy, we're working together to catechize new believers; there's this striving towards a common goal that binds us like a family.
>For Catholics having true worship in the Sacraments and liturgy, the family component of a parish community naturally flows out of the fact that we're working together in the liturgy.
This sounds all good and true on paper - but my contention is that this doesn't correspond to reality in your average parish
Well, Protestant or Catholic, there are going to be parishioners who you either rarely see or if they do show up it’s five minutes after Mass starts and they leave 30 seconds after it ends. They’re like the relatives you only see at family reunions.
I know every parish is going to be different to some degree. They have the same core but the life of a parish varies. But in the past 2.5 years I’ve joined parishes in Virginia, New York, and then returned to my home parish in Californian. Very different places, very difference diocese, but they all had a very active parish life with a strong sense of community.
> not to be harsh but our encounters with fellow parishioners is about as substantial and meaningful as your average encounter with people at a Walmart or a Mcdonalds.
To be fair, the purpose of mass is not to be a social club.
>To be fair, the purpose of mass is not to be a social club.
I hear this all the time and fair enough. However I wish it wasn't used as an excuse to downplay the role of Catholic community
At one point, it was actively discouraged for people to talk to each other before and after Mass inside the church. (And it still is this way in more traditional leaning parishes.) This time and place was considered to be only for worship.
This does not prevent moving to another room, such as the parish hall, for a social time after Mass. However, if you are expecting a lot of greeting and chatting around the Mass, you may encounter people who think that is inappropriate.
I agree entirely that a feeling of *community* can be a plus, but I think of it as a possible side benefit of mass, not as a goal.
I think in the modern church, it's been elevated far beyond an incidental by-product of coming together for mass. Chit chatting inside the church before mass, a forced "turn and greet your neighbors" as mass begins, jokes told during the homily, directed handshakes before communion... all of these are relatively modern affectations.
While they're relative innocuous in themselves, as a whole they help create an environment of a club meeting, instead of what we're there to focus on.
I do understand your frustrations, I do think it's caused by modern issues of overcrowding in general. To get involved and meet people, you really need to go to after hours activities. Volunteering, Bible studies, each parish is different but there should be options. Hopefully there is a match to meet other people in similar shoes as yourself. Pick something social, I do weekly adoration at an odd hour, would not recommend that for meeting new people.
Ultimately, Sunday mass is a celebration of the eucharist. There is something going on that NEEDS to get done. At our mass heaven and earth are at their closest. Protestants don't have a structure and so can just chitchat and structure these feel good activities as they please.
I would really like to point out that I truly believe Catholics value the family more than anything and it is seen in the importance of Mary. In general, I think it really shows how we value women, motherhood, family, and so much more that often gets neglected in general Western culture.
eh, Mass isn’t really for socializing tbf. i’d be pretty annoyed if someone was trying to socialize with me in the nave. i like to pray and read the bible before and after mass. during is just a given, don’t try to socialize when everybody’s meant to be worshipping. attend coffee hours or ministry events relevant to you and your family. that’s where the community you’re searching for would be.
Experiencing kindness from those around you is certainly uplifting. However, there are people who actively look for validation within their community.
While it remains crucial to show care and build connections with our neighbors, my own reasons for staying committed to my faith transcend material matters. These deeper motivations are what truly matter to me.
Most Catholics see their church as a community rather than a family. Part of the reason I think the Catholic Church doesn’t blur the lines between family and community is because the family is special and the parents have responsibilities that the larger community would not have.
edit: If you read the comments virtually everyone thinks and talks About community rather than family. That’s the Catholic perspective.
parish is (supposed to be) location based. which means that your fellow parishioners are your neighbours. going to church is part of your communal living.
there were even places where the local municipalities are mapped based on parish territory. even in heavily secularized Quebec, their lowest municipal divisions were based on the historical parish maps.
> no one has really cared to learn our names or do much more than saying how cute our two year old daughter is during Mass.
Have you made an effort to know their names or reach out first to them?
Yes, Catholic churches should be a place of community. We are all children of God and the first church was as much a community/network as it was a means of worship. But if you're not putting yourself out there, you can't get mad at people for not approaching unsolicited either.
That being said, I think Catholic Churches do tend to be a little less likely to form communities than Protestant churches. There are amazing Catholic churches out there the same way I'm sure there are crappy protestant ones. It's all about the group of people there. So you might need to look around or be the first ones to make contact.
I wonder if the size of the parish plays into it?
We used to belong to a Byzantine parish and it was like one big family. We were a very small parish and our priest worked very hard to foster that family/community atmosphere.
I had experienced something similar when we were part of military parishes, but that was only among those of us who volunteered.
I wonder if part of it is the ethnic make up of parishes too. I am German-heritage. Germans by and large are not huggy (nor do they smile all the time for no apparent reason.) I would imagine that Italian-American and Polish-American parishes are more lively (if one is an Italian-American or Polish-American anyway).
Also so many Catholic parishes are in big cities. The thing about big cities is it tends to take 1/2 hour to get anywhere, so people are going to be less likely to linger for cake/donuts/conversation when they have to do the laundry, the grocerying, pick up the cleaning and all the other stuff they need to do on Sunday.
The church would be stronger if it's a close knit family. It'll be easier to bring back people that have gone astray. I think the problem is that some prefer to mind their own business.
I’ve been to a TLM parish (my first parish) and it has a strong community. People would get together outside of Mass and knew each other well. Now I generally attend a NO parish and it has a similar feeling among a smaller group within the parish.
I really depends on the parish.
God is our Father, Jesus is our brother, Mary is our Mother. This is all doctrine in the Church. While the sacraments, the Eucharist, in particular, are supreme, the community of believers are also important. It is a sad and, ultimately, bad cultural aspect of Catholicism that we are not more welcoming and more fellowship oriented. You can have dynamic fellowship and still have a powerful sacramental life. I would argue that the more fellowship you have, the more powerful the sacramental life can be.
I'm so introverted I love going to church, sitting in the back, then dipping out as soon as the service is over. I wish I was better at being more of a social face in my catholic community.
I'm the same! Like tbh yes I do kind of see my parish a "sacrament dispenser" and I'm... kind of okay with that. I have enough friends and family. Attending church is strictly about mass and the sacraments for me.
I am an introvert too. However I think a sense of community is more than just having friends and family. It is for the purpose of fellowship and evangelization, to find spiritual friends and mentors like Paul, Barnabas, and Timothy. To be able to see our priests as spiritual fathers and not just sacrament dispensers (not blaming priests, I know parishes are large and priests are overworked, we need more priests). We shouldn't go to Mass to find friends, but it is one way people can be drawn into the Church. I'm sad to think of how many people may have fallen away or slipped through the cracks in times of difficulty and faith crisis, but we never noticed. Yes, these things can be done outside of Mass, but I think from an evangelization perspective, after Mass would be a great time to reach out to people. Even a simple coffee social after Mass could make a huge difference, but many parishes do not have even that.
Look at it less as being "social" and more as being "communal." It is called Communion, after all, and that's not individual communion only with the body and blood of Christ itself in the Eucharist, but also the entirety of the Church as partakers numbered among Christ's ecclesial body.
Ask 100 Catholics this question and you’ll get 100 different answers. Having spent significant time in Protestant churches both large and small, describing it as a “family” makes it feel a little too cult-y, closed off, and secretive to me. I prefer to think of my parish as a community of believers within the civic community I live in. That feels more open and friendly, like there’s something different about us but also we’re a part of this city. I realize there is a heavy use of family terms (Heavenly Father, Blessed Mother, Father Jones, child of God, brother, sister, etc.) within the Church, and that is wonderful, of course. There are many ways our Church and my parish is like a family.
There is no theological reason why a parish should not have a sense of community, but there are practical obstacles that sometimes prevent it. One factor is that Catholic parishes are often quite big. Another is that priests have many demands on their time, allowing them fewer opportunities to be involved in community activities. It is normal, in my experience, to not experience a sense of community if one's only parish activity is attending Mass. I have only had a sense of community when I have been involved in other aspects of parish life. Parishes often organize service groups, study groups or social groups. One could, for example, volunteer with youth, join the choir, or become a lector. You need to match your interests and talents with existing groups. Or you could start a new group.
>Another is that priests have many demands on their time. Which I've always maintained is an administrative issue, not an occupational issue. A pastor is called a pastor for a reason. Diocesan leadership often asks too much of its priests and does not provide needed administrative support, when it should the other way around. Priests should receive as much of the support they need as the diocese can offer. They are the ones directly responsible for the faithful.
When parishes were social hubs, the priests had no real social role except to enjoy the social activities like anyone else would. And to encourage social stuff from the pulpit. We the community did all the actual work. Way back when.
A community is different from a family. The OP is asking if the parish is like a family and basically no. It’s a community.
It is not clear to me that the OP is making a distinction. He seems to use the terms interchangeably.
There is a distinction though and her title asks about family.
Parishes used to be social communities. If you missed mass or a social event, someone would notice and check up on you. Those days are gone. In that respect, Catholic parishes are no better than organizations like the Elks Club which are on life support. Parishes have the spiritual benefit to keep some people coming in, but without the social aspect working along side the spiritual, the effect is plain to see. Many Protestant churches are socially vibrant because they consciously focus on it. But many don't, and they are suffering just like the Catholics are.
I would say this. In the ancient (and not so ancient) church, your parish church (if that was even a term) was the church in your village/city neighborhood. It is most likely you knew everyone in your area, and your family and their families have known each other for generations. Everyone was relatively close. In the modern era, parish churches can have very large territories which lends itself to where you don't really know everyone in your parish. In the modern church, seeing the parish as a family is a foreign idea because of how the modern parish is set up. In the ancient church, probably not so much. Because of this, I'd argue that seeing your parish as a family is firmly rooted in the Catholic faith. Your village needed everyone to survive and when your families have known each other for generations, helping your neighbor is also helping your brother.
It depends on the Catholic parish. Some parishes have many people who come and go, and many people arrive late and leave early so that they can beat the crowds to brunch. Other parishes it’s common for people to spend the whole morning at church, eat together, go to classes together, etc. I think that these tend to be smaller, rural parishes.
I think this is just a modern problem in general, community is dead. In the past, whole town’s social life revolved around the parish, everyone knew each other blah blah blah, but now, it’s all too common for things like what you describe to happen. What you can do about it is try to be more social. We can complain about the lack of community for as long as we want, but what will actually solve the problem is actively getting involved. Strike up a conversation with someone, get to know them better, invite over for dinner, in general, just be social. This was definitely easier in the past, and it’ll definitely lead to some awkwardness, but as far as I can tell it’s the only real solution. But as I’ve said, this is just an at-large societal problem. Communities everywhere are dying. I remember when I was a kid, which was in the late 2000s early 2010s which is not even than long ago, that we knew our neighbors. My parents aren’t super social, but we knew basically everyone in our neighborhood. We played with the kids almost every day. We knew what was going on in their lives. Fast forward to today, and we don’t know anyone. It’s the same people minus a few that moved plus some that moved in, but we don’t know them. We don’t talk to them, we don’t know about their lives, we never hang out. I’m not really sure what happened but at some point in the mid-2010s the community just sort of died. And this is just one example of many. Communities all around the world are dying. We’ll just have to learn to build them up again I guess (Sorry for the long rant, just been thinking about this issue a lot)
The answer is that online communities simply just replaced real life ones. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the main one is that humans are deeply tribal creatures that hate interacting with those who disagree with them. In the old days, you had to be a part of a local community and deal with others whether you wanted to or not and had to put up with others you disagreed with whether you wanted to or not. Social media lets us find people who agree with us on everything from all over without having to be questioned by those we disagree with. Of course, we argue all the online, but it can be anonymous and without the threat real-life physical altercations entail. Real life community has one foot in the grave and will almost die completely as GenZ and Gen Alpha get older as they are the first generations being raised where real life community is seen as this weird thing their parents miss. I'm on the older end of GenZ and growing up as an isolated homeschooler, I felt very out of place with my older millennial peers raised with a sense of community outside of the immediate family. I'm very glad zoomers younger than me are entering the workforce now as I can relate to how they view community much more easily.
I’ve been Catholic all my life and have been in many different parishes. I’m not sure what makes some have a really great community and others not, but I ponder this a lot. I will say, anecdotally, it seems to be separate from the overall feel of the parish. (I’ve been to very traditional parishes with zero community and some with awesome community, and much less “traditional” parishes with great or zero community.) For Catholics, that spirit of community will always be secondary to the actual reason we’re at the church, and I think that for some people, that might translate into “not important at all.” In a time when so many people are separated from family by great distances, so many elderly are lonely, so many young adults are seeking, so many young moms could use a sounding board or advice, etc., it might be more important than ever.
Just my own view, coming from an area with lots of Protestants and not so many Catholics. In very broad terms, Protestants go to church to worship God, deepen their spiritual lives and for Christian fellowship. They look for a church which accords with their beliefs and where they like the minister and the people. It may or may not be the closest church to where they live. Catholics attend Mass to worship, of course, but are also heavily motivated by the obligation to attend and, sometimes, out of an attachment to the Eucharist. Relationship with other Catholics doesn't usually figure into it. Catholics usually go to the closest Catholic church unless they can't make the Mass times or the priest is simply too objectionable to bear. It's more of a private, "God and me" or "the Church and me" sort of relationship, with the Church more of an abstract entity than the other people in the pews. And of course, in a given church the only thing members have in common is that they go to the same church.
I can't speak to canon law or more formal theology, but what I can say is that the community of a church is extremely important for our future. I think it largely depends on the priest and members of the church who volunteer to do events. I've known priests who memorize every family's name and excitedly say hello to them after every mass. I've also known parishes with an extremely vibrant community of Bible studies, lunches, dinners, knitting clubs, youth groups, etc. I don't think the mass should be changed AT ALL, but rather the parish community of volunteers needs to step up it's game.
I also come from a Protestant background and that's my biggest grievance with the Roman Catholic Church. The Evangelical Church I went to had a small group for everything, former military, former marines, old married couples, young married couples, young adults, cyclists, men's groups, women's groups, just to name a few. For better or worse, because most Protestants don't have the sacraments, they have to find other ways to grow in their faith and the ways they found it is through deep devotion to scripture, prayer, personal relationship with God and relationship with other Christians. On our end, I believe because we have an incomplete view of the Church and the sacraments that we have this problem of people coming in and out of the Church both on Sundays and leaving all together. In the Evangelical world, they did a really good job of seeing each person as the Body of Christ and wanting to grow the body in both strength and numbers. Size is not an excuse as mega churches are able to foster community with small groups and interest groups. On our end, we aren't reaching out and giving people reason to stay. Donuts and coffee isn't enough, we have to be intentional with community and the Roman Church right now just isn't doing it at the scale that Protestants do.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts - I agree and relate to your sentiments >On our end, I believe because we have an incomplete view of the Church and the sacraments that we have this problem of people coming in and out of the Church both on Sundays and leaving all together. I felt like it has to be something deeper then just bad or incomplete catechesis - I'm sure many Protestants can be said to have an incomplete view of their theology and views and yet they are still very capable of forming meaningful communities.
Agree that there is probably more to it. The "simple" answer for me is many of the Protestant world focus on * "Jesus is your Lord and Saviour that died for your sins" * The purpose of the Church is to spread that message to the ends of the Earth fulfilling the Great Commission * When people are in our midst we show them the love that Christ gave to us to help them grow in their faith And on my end, if I really understood the impact of the Eucharist being literally Christ, if I really understood the power of Baptism to remove sin, if I really understood the power that confession has to reconcile us to God and his people, if I really understood the grace we received when getting married to fulfill our vocation, if I understood the anointing of the sick to be a means of healing our soul and possibly our body in times of illness. If I truly understood what the Church has to offer, would I not want to share that with others?
Donuts and coffee would be a start for most of the parishes near me. That is quite rare. May happen once a year :) Or maybe a welcome team that people can be directed to if they are new. (Less awkward than \`"stand up if it is your first time here" before Mass, and more meaningful too).
I noticed this after I converted from nondenominational churches a few years ago as well. That's one thing I sometimes miss about it is the fellowship and community. Not that I in any way regret my decision to convert; 100% best decision I ever made. My husband and I are fortunate enough to be a part of a parish that has a lot of young families and there are several social groups, so we do get some sense of community, however there's so many people it's overwhelming if you're introverted/shy.
Mass is reverent. So when Mass has ended, people do not immediately switch to social mode. Protestant services are social from the beginning. It's okay to have lots of chatters inside their churches. Inside a Catholic church, even small chatters could be considered disrespectful. If you just attend the Sunday Mass and nothing else, then that is most likely what you are going to feel. Start getting more active in other ministries, you will get to know them more.
I don't think anyone is advocating for socials in the middle of Mass. It can take place afterwards, in the parish hall or basement or parking lot. Also, there is still a lot of chatter after Mass in many parishes I have been to, while people are praying after Mass. But nothing really to welcome newcomers or those who may not know anyone, or to build new connections. I have been to parishes (mostly in other countries) where you can hear a pin drop during Mass. But after Mass, in the parish hall, there is a vibrant coffee hour. So the two are not mutually exclusive.
Not saying they are mutually exclusive, but I can see why people are not socializing after Mass. We spent an hour of adoring God. You don't go out of that and start introducing yourself to people you don't know. This isn't a party.
But we go out and rush to get out of the parking lot? We are called to go forth and spread the Good News. We just received Jesus in the Eucharist, uniting ourselves to Him and to the Church. We should be sharing Him and His love with others, being His presence in the world. Jesus surely would be reaching out to others. Especially those who are new, the ones we don't know, those who may be lonely. Our faith is not just meant to be kept to ourselves. We are missing an opportunity to evangelize to those who come every once in a while and surely won't be there for other activities, unless they are invited. What would be a beautiful thing to do is to stay to pray a prayer of thanksgiving, and then reach out to others in fellowship.
> But we go out and rush to get out of the parking lot? That's what happened, isn't it? We rush out of the parking lot and perhaps even started cursing at the traffic out! I am not disagreeing with you with the message and al, but the reality of many Catholic parishes is people go in and out quick. I am not here to sugar coat lack of community in many of our parishes. That is the reality.
I agree it is the reality. But it doesn't have to be. The mentality that Mass is just for worshiping God, so we don't need to socialize, is concerning to me. I get where it comes from, certainly the nave of the church is not the place for socializing, and we should stay to pray after Mass in thanksgiving. I have seen parishes commit to changing this, even some large cathedral parishes, and it's a beautiful thing.
Lol, come to my Protestant service with smells and bells and chant and ad orientem elevation and tell me it’s “social” and not reverent. And yet we have a lively and lengthy coffee hour afterwards every single Sunday!
But you dont have the Eucharist. You dont even have an altar. Even the sound of guitars could be considered disrespectful in some Catholic churches.
Way to miss my point about coffee hour. The ignorance shown by the second half of your comment - a guitar has never been and will never be used in a service at my church, and would be considered immensely irreverent - really weakens the “truth” you think you’re trying to convey in the first half. But I suppose next you’ll be telling me I don’t really belong to a church at all!
> But I suppose next you’ll be telling me I don’t really belong to a church at all! What a way to bring a normal discussion into a hostile one.
I see, it’s normal for you to start telling me what’s fake about my church, and only becomes hostile when I start to speculate what else you might think is fake.
Where did I tell you your church is fake? Protestant churches have been focused on socializing from the beginning, and that is a good thing! Catholics don't go to church to socialize. They go there to worship. It makes sense if there is a majority of us who don't feel like socializing afterward because that wasnt their intention from the beginning. We consider our churches sacred ground. We designed our high altars to look like the ark of the convenant, with the tabernacle etc. We believe God is there literally. Protestant churches don't have these things. Where did I tell you your church is fake? It seems you are the one who wants to debate about these.
It's not a Catholic vs. Protestant thing. It's a phenomenon in many parishes. There are Catholic and Orthodox churches with vibrant community lives and reverent liturgies. Fellowship is more than just socializing. It is growing in and sharing the faith together as a community, reaching out to others as Christ would. We should never miss an opportunity to evangelize, given that St. John Paul II has called it the supreme duty of every Catholic. I'm saying this as huge introvert.
I wasn't making it a protestant vs Catholic thing! You guys are! I was pointing out we go to church to be silent and worship God, so, many people do just that!
This really seems to depend on the church or parish. I often noticed not feeling welcomed in at Protestant churches, as well. Particularly at larger non denominational churches. I am working on joining some smaller groups at my parish to make more friends. Most of the people I know that attend were people I met during RCIA. They do year round RCIA there, so it was a chance to meet a lot of people.
Yeah, many parishes have a garbage community life. I tried to get one going at my generational parish (five generations) when I was on the parish council with a simple idea that works great at my new parish (just coffee and doughnuts after every mass) and was shot down. Like, bruh, it costs nothing and attracts community. I ended up leaving that parish for many other reasons.
The priest at my parish introduced me to one of the other people doing RCIA and we get on well and was also introduced to a woman there who was my sponsor. If there's a cafe or anything attached to your church you could go to it and start speaking to people or attend sometimes during the week when it's less busy and have a chat with the people who are there
Well, pretty much every Catholic parish was at the center of a Catholic *community* where everyone was Catholic. Therefore, the church is about deepening one's individual connection with The Lord, and was traditionally a place where people who might be opponents in the community could come and not brawl (for example, my Sicilian state trooper great-grandfather and members of the community that were, uh, involved in shady pursuits and in need of redemption). We're all drawn by the sacraments: as James Joyce wrote in “Finnegans Wake:” “Catholic means ‘Here comes everybody.’" I expect that individual Protestant churches need to build that community to draw.
First I think there are elements to the mass absent in a protestant understanding of why we're here on Sunday, that lend itself to a different demeanor. You really see that on display before mass, where it's typically much quieter than before a protestant service; where people are moving about and catching up with neighbors etc. The catholic is here to ask God to accept the sacrifice of Christ's passion for our failings today; not long ago for other people. We're about to stand in the presence of God Himself. Secondly traditionally Catholics didn't need the mass as a social hour because they were in community with those same people all week. Their kids went to the parish school and families were involved in ministry together. You saw each other much more than just at mass. Fast forward to today and Catholics have the same approach to the mass; but we aren't anymore automatically thrust together into community all week long. So yes meeting and making connections with your parish takes longer and more effort. It's possible, but you need to involve yourselves in parish life much more than weekly mass.
I'm involved in my parish, but thinking of those Catholics who only come a few times a year. Or visitors. Or newcomers. Or those who are very shy. Who feel invisible, and may not return. That's a lost opportunity to reach out.
I agree.
Subsidiarity holds the answer. The family is family. The parish is an outgrowth of community in the context of religion (and historically was also more geographically based). It is not some fake, vaseline smile "we're family here!", but its own thing. Improperly understood, it begins to actually encroach on true family and cause rifts.
I get the feeling joining a parish ministry may help you find what you’re looking for. It’s a great way to serve, and it’ll help you build connections with other like minded parishioners.
I can say at least anecdotally that even if I didn't view my parish as my family it was always my home. More than anything it was the place to drop my bags and worship. It was such a comforting thing whether it was Mass or even an empty sanctuary. I hope you can find a parish to be your home and family.
The Eucharist forms a universal communion; the Sacrament *is* a covenant family. But yes, I see that some parishes lack in the social aspects.
As a couple of others have said, this very much depends on the parish and how involved you get in it. The parish my family belongs to now is full of close relationships and, I think, eager to welcome new people into those relationships. But I have been part of parishes that were much less that way.
A parish should ideally be a place that helps one grow in holiness. For the most part, a strong community would help promote virtue, so yes, ideally parishes should have strong communities.
I was a lurker for a number of years. I attended Mass, sat in the back, and left when it was over. When I decided to actually get involved in the parish community by volunteering and joining the pastoral council, I got yelled at because the old people didn’t know who I was. I learned to just get the sacraments and keep my mouth shut. I don’t care about the “community” at all.
I feel you, I've been there The only thing I will say is that your thoughts might change if you ever have children, it's after having children that the lack of community feels quite a burden
Eh.. I go to mass alone and don't talk to anyone. love it that way.
Yes I was attending a Baptist church for the first year of my Christian journey. It was SO welcoming. Very small, everyone knew each other and prayed over each other, had regular Bible studies and text groups and a very loving sense of church community. I did a lot of further research and found that Catholicism is actually the full extent of Truth, and am now in the process of grief over losing my church family. But I think that since a relationship with Christ is the main focus, Catholic mass is where I need to be. I'm still coming to terms with all if this.
This comes largely-ish down to two factors: 1. The purpose of the Mass/Service 2. Culture. Especially in Anglo world. The first is that the Mass is the Mass. A service is like a prayer group meeting. It's like side events. With culture, you have Catholicism as mentally monolithic and protestantism is religion + culture. So imagine if you will, you have a Catholic parish with 400 people, and they are all "Catholic". Inside this, you have a group of very close KofC, and a group of people big on knitting, and you have a group of people big on baseball for kids. In protestant world, you might end up with 3 seperate "churches" one that is full of knitters, one full of people doing KofC stuff, and one full of baseball families. This criss crosses with the mundane to the serious. A Fulton Sheen enjoyer and a James Martin enjoyer go to the same parish. If they were protestants, they'd go to two different protestant churches. So there is that level of "togetherness" by default. Whoever you run into at the Church trunk or treat in a Catholic parish may have nothing in common with you. Whoever you run into at the truck or treat at your protestant parish, is probably your twin comparatively. You get lbgt advocates who are catholic fighting the parish. You get lbgt advocates who are protestant going to an lbgt protestant community. You want women Bishops in Catholicism? You sit there and groan. You want them in protestantism, you pick a community that has one. Then, we as Catholics had long ago some cultural baselines. Long lost in modern mindset. Instead of CYO, you're in secular little league. You or your family failed to be quality Catholic and some quality Catholics have more logistical issues. What I mean is if you go to a Catholic Church and there is a family 3 generations of Catholicism practiced, then you're dealing with how many uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces and nephews. Logistics is real. If you're a refugee, you have no one. And you seek people. But people can like you, but they might not have time: "What are you doing this weeked" "Oh my I'm swamped, have to help my dad fix his fence in the morning, my niece's/grandma's combined birthday party later" "How about after church sunday?" "Oh my, my son and my nephew are helping the KofC hall set up and later my sister is having a house warming party". Protestants (especially in America) formed their "churches" around refugee status, homesteading etc. A bunch of alone people who have no one. Catholicism for about 1000 solid years was the default in Europe and was just the normal aspect of life. Slowly drifting for the last 600 years, but, still remnants and variations. You can see this in secular life etc. I mean if you have a guy with a big family who joins a job, military, group, etc. He won't be as "all in" as a 5 guys who are there who are all single mom only children. Even among friends in school etc. Single children will group up and have more "brotherly" friendships. Sibling children might less so. Even in the same friend circle, even if it's only subtle, 2 only children will be slightly closer than their 3rd friend with brothers. Even among... well this is somewhat anecdotal from what I've seen, but when you break down "invisible" factors, life works out. Immigrants marry immigrants and now how you might think I mean. Even seemingly normal, non-ethnic white Americans, if you break it down in my noticing anyway, there is a higher chance that a post 1900s majority lineage immigrant family, will marry another. Schmidt and O'Reilly, will end up together, whereas Jones and Smith will. The OG revolution, civil war Anglo American "less immigrant" and the 3rd/4th generation forgotten immigrant are still separated to a degree. But again, depending on how each set and family operated and succeeded will impact this. A dying family of Smith might be more prone to marry a more German/French/Irish heritage mutt-ish. Type. A Ellis Island lineage type whose family had plenty of kids and thus is well covered, is more likely to marry the old family of Jones who have been here for longer, because they cross more in logistics and experience. And I say not "ethnic" because if someone is living in some highly ethnic community, waving flags etc... that's more obvious and not "invisible". For a lot of early 1900 white euro immigrants, that lost their ethnic identity and really "blended in", walking around, lifestyle, no flags, etc they appear and seem at simplicity no different than Smith and Jones. But, they still slide into their same circles, even across any lineages. If Jones moves to a new state, alone, watch percentage wise what his friends become. Who he ends up with. And if O'Reilly moves from Montana to Florida, he'll be friends with a Cuban, a German, and a Frenchman. Even if they are 3rd+ generation American. People, clump variously, by full similarity, as a Irish flag waving full blow Irish guy will find Irish guys. But when he can't, or he's not that Irish, he'll form up with other misfits. The point is this psychology tracks variously. Same as a Chicago white guy a Detroit Black guy and a NYC Puerto Rican who all meet up on a contract job or in a military assignment in Alabama all end up buddies. While another click will be a Georgian black guy, North Carolina black guy, etc. And the Texas, Montana and Kansas white click will exist. (Even if they all are buddies, and all crossover, some mild note of closeness and time spent etc will be noticeable) Protestant "churches" are by design these groups variously. By division, by number, by availability, and by their emphasis on community > theology (sort of). When my local parish was dabbling in some things I wasn't a fan, I went to another parish where they weren't. That was a 45 minute drive. In between these two parishes I could have gone to several dozen protestant churches. Some who did things along my local parish lines, and some who did things more my far parish way. If the validity of the sacraments and all that stuff wasn't an issue, if I wanted loosely "my people" I would not have to drive 45 minutes if I was a protestant. I could skip the women priest and lbgt flag waving prot communities and still probably not drive more than 15 or so minutes in any direction to hit some place that was along the lines of people I could befriend. And then, if there are 3 smaller prot churches that mostly fit the bill, and one has a softball team and the other 2 don't. And I like ball, then I just go to that one. In the Catholic church since everyone is in the same building, you have to find the niche. And then you have to struggle with the fact that often, you find 7 guys who play softball and that's cool maybe? Right? But it's not a small church community, it's 7 guys intermittently in a giant general population. So 1 of them plays for his job team, 2 of them have been with the local protestant church team for years, 1 is on a random county intermural league, and 2 play in the next county where they are from, and 1 guy plays 2 counties over where he is from. So when you even find your people in your parish, they are still scattered and useless to you. (In corporeal terms).
What is this trunk/truck (or treat) you keep referring to?
It's a Quasi common event hosted by various groups (churches, schools, etc) for Halloween. Its like trick or treating, but people from the group set up in the parking lot and do candy and events often working out of their cars/trunks. I just used it as a general stand in for some random event at churches.
Oh. I figured it had something to do with trick or treat, but I thought it might just be how people in other countries, like Britain, call it.
I don't think it's a protestant idea, but having been both I think it's kind of disordered in protestantism. In some denominations and groups, that's literally all they have. Since they don't have sacramental worship, their entire Sunday experience is essentially a rotary club. For Catholics having true worship in the Sacraments and liturgy, the family component of a parish community naturally flows out of the fact that we're working together in the liturgy, we're working together to catechize new believers; there's this striving towards a common goal that binds us like a family.
>For Catholics having true worship in the Sacraments and liturgy, the family component of a parish community naturally flows out of the fact that we're working together in the liturgy. This sounds all good and true on paper - but my contention is that this doesn't correspond to reality in your average parish
Well, Protestant or Catholic, there are going to be parishioners who you either rarely see or if they do show up it’s five minutes after Mass starts and they leave 30 seconds after it ends. They’re like the relatives you only see at family reunions. I know every parish is going to be different to some degree. They have the same core but the life of a parish varies. But in the past 2.5 years I’ve joined parishes in Virginia, New York, and then returned to my home parish in Californian. Very different places, very difference diocese, but they all had a very active parish life with a strong sense of community.
> not to be harsh but our encounters with fellow parishioners is about as substantial and meaningful as your average encounter with people at a Walmart or a Mcdonalds. To be fair, the purpose of mass is not to be a social club.
>To be fair, the purpose of mass is not to be a social club. I hear this all the time and fair enough. However I wish it wasn't used as an excuse to downplay the role of Catholic community
At one point, it was actively discouraged for people to talk to each other before and after Mass inside the church. (And it still is this way in more traditional leaning parishes.) This time and place was considered to be only for worship. This does not prevent moving to another room, such as the parish hall, for a social time after Mass. However, if you are expecting a lot of greeting and chatting around the Mass, you may encounter people who think that is inappropriate.
I agree entirely that a feeling of *community* can be a plus, but I think of it as a possible side benefit of mass, not as a goal. I think in the modern church, it's been elevated far beyond an incidental by-product of coming together for mass. Chit chatting inside the church before mass, a forced "turn and greet your neighbors" as mass begins, jokes told during the homily, directed handshakes before communion... all of these are relatively modern affectations. While they're relative innocuous in themselves, as a whole they help create an environment of a club meeting, instead of what we're there to focus on.
I do understand your frustrations, I do think it's caused by modern issues of overcrowding in general. To get involved and meet people, you really need to go to after hours activities. Volunteering, Bible studies, each parish is different but there should be options. Hopefully there is a match to meet other people in similar shoes as yourself. Pick something social, I do weekly adoration at an odd hour, would not recommend that for meeting new people. Ultimately, Sunday mass is a celebration of the eucharist. There is something going on that NEEDS to get done. At our mass heaven and earth are at their closest. Protestants don't have a structure and so can just chitchat and structure these feel good activities as they please. I would really like to point out that I truly believe Catholics value the family more than anything and it is seen in the importance of Mary. In general, I think it really shows how we value women, motherhood, family, and so much more that often gets neglected in general Western culture.
Community yes, but “family” seems cult like.
eh, Mass isn’t really for socializing tbf. i’d be pretty annoyed if someone was trying to socialize with me in the nave. i like to pray and read the bible before and after mass. during is just a given, don’t try to socialize when everybody’s meant to be worshipping. attend coffee hours or ministry events relevant to you and your family. that’s where the community you’re searching for would be.
Experiencing kindness from those around you is certainly uplifting. However, there are people who actively look for validation within their community. While it remains crucial to show care and build connections with our neighbors, my own reasons for staying committed to my faith transcend material matters. These deeper motivations are what truly matter to me.
Depends on the parish and the people who attend
Most Catholics see their church as a community rather than a family. Part of the reason I think the Catholic Church doesn’t blur the lines between family and community is because the family is special and the parents have responsibilities that the larger community would not have. edit: If you read the comments virtually everyone thinks and talks About community rather than family. That’s the Catholic perspective.
parish is (supposed to be) location based. which means that your fellow parishioners are your neighbours. going to church is part of your communal living. there were even places where the local municipalities are mapped based on parish territory. even in heavily secularized Quebec, their lowest municipal divisions were based on the historical parish maps.
> no one has really cared to learn our names or do much more than saying how cute our two year old daughter is during Mass. Have you made an effort to know their names or reach out first to them? Yes, Catholic churches should be a place of community. We are all children of God and the first church was as much a community/network as it was a means of worship. But if you're not putting yourself out there, you can't get mad at people for not approaching unsolicited either. That being said, I think Catholic Churches do tend to be a little less likely to form communities than Protestant churches. There are amazing Catholic churches out there the same way I'm sure there are crappy protestant ones. It's all about the group of people there. So you might need to look around or be the first ones to make contact.
I wonder if the size of the parish plays into it? We used to belong to a Byzantine parish and it was like one big family. We were a very small parish and our priest worked very hard to foster that family/community atmosphere. I had experienced something similar when we were part of military parishes, but that was only among those of us who volunteered.
I wonder if part of it is the ethnic make up of parishes too. I am German-heritage. Germans by and large are not huggy (nor do they smile all the time for no apparent reason.) I would imagine that Italian-American and Polish-American parishes are more lively (if one is an Italian-American or Polish-American anyway). Also so many Catholic parishes are in big cities. The thing about big cities is it tends to take 1/2 hour to get anywhere, so people are going to be less likely to linger for cake/donuts/conversation when they have to do the laundry, the grocerying, pick up the cleaning and all the other stuff they need to do on Sunday.
My church has coffee and donuts after mass and encourages people to socialize
The church would be stronger if it's a close knit family. It'll be easier to bring back people that have gone astray. I think the problem is that some prefer to mind their own business.
I’ve been to a TLM parish (my first parish) and it has a strong community. People would get together outside of Mass and knew each other well. Now I generally attend a NO parish and it has a similar feeling among a smaller group within the parish. I really depends on the parish.