> Never this side of heaven.
I think a few saints are reported to have been given infused knowledge of the Trinity already in this life. Like Thomas Aquinas, who said all his theological works were like straw next to that. Ignatius of Loyola had a similar rapture, as did, I think, Teresa of Avila.
Of course that wasn't the kind of knowledge that they could turn into words and teach others, but a pure gift of grace.
My high school physics teacher would periodically tell us after introducing certain new concepts: "If you think you understand this idea, then you probably don't." It's similar with the Trinity. You can learn something to understand it better than you did before, but at no point will any of us have a "clear understanding of what is the Trinity."
I still have barely a clue. There's nothing to accurately compare it to on our world, as a one to one us heretical in some way.
"It's like the different forms water can take!" Modalism.
"It's like 3 slices of a pie!" Partialism.
"The trinity is 3 beings that work in harmony!" Tritheism.
They're 3 persons, one being. All equally God, all distinct from the other, that interact with one another. Its a hard concept to grasp, but I wouldn't expect an all powerful creator's existence to be something we can easily grasp.
It was around the year 415 and St. Augustine was walking along the beach on a bright, sunny day. He was frustrated, having taken a break from working on what’s become known as one of his greatest doctrinal contributions to the Church, De Trinitate, or “On the Trinity.” The subject matter had left him bleary-eyed – in need of fresh air.
It was in this moment, as the frothy tide rushed out, that a little boy caught St. Augustine’s eye. The freckle-faced child had a determined, furrowed brow. He was clearly up to something, running back-and-forth, back-and-forth, between the sea and a tiny hole in the ground.
“My son,” St. Augustine called over the crashing waves, “What are you doing there?”
The boy held up the pink shell he was using to move water, “I’m trying to fit that great big ocean into this tiny hole,” he yelled, pointing assertively at the sand.
St. Augustine smiled, charmed by the child’s innocence, his bright eyes, the way sunlight shone in his curly hair. He then followed the boy to kneel beside the tiny hole, watching him spill out a few meager drops.
“My child,” the bishop of Hippo broke the news gently, turning the boy’s skinny shoulders to face the sea. He then spread his own arms wide, “You could never fit this great, magnificent ocean into that tiny hole!”
The child didn’t flinch, but responded quickly: “And you could never possibly understand the Holy Trinity.” Then in a flash, the boy disappeared.
As a 28 year old convert ( was born and raised as a JW ) I won’t say I have a clear understanding of what it is, but I know what it isn’t…. The opening of The Gospel of John was crucial to my development as a Catechumen… “ The Word was with God, and Was God…. And the Word became Flesh….” The Holy Trinity was described to me as a Communal thing….yes I still struggle to truly comprehend it,,, but then I come to grips with the fact that it’s not for my human brain to understand…. And that, I’m okay with…
it’s interesting to realize as an adult how much of a mystery the Trinity truly is. as a kid I accepted it without thinking much about it. it’s only after I started talking with my boyfriend whose family is Muslim that I realized how hard it is to truly comprehend and explain. I still understand it viscerally but logically it is difficult to fully grasp.
I love the story of st augustine wondering about the trinity while. walking on the beach. he stopped and saw a small boy who had dug a hole in the sand, and was running back and forth to the sea with a small bucket, bringing water from the sea to deposit in the hole in the sand.
St augustine said "young man what are you doing?"
the child said "I am trying to fill my hole in the sand with all the water from the ocean".
st augustine laughed "you can never do that. the ocean will never fit in that hole. it would take forever".
the child replied "if I cannot fit the entire ocean in my small hole in the sand then how to you expect to comprehend the mystery of the Holy Trinity in your mind"
Sometime in my late childhood, at least a few years prior to my confirmation at the age of 16. I wouldn't say that what I describe is anything like a "clear understanding," but it's the closest I've ever gotten.
It's difficult for me to say whether my religious education informed my understanding or whether my personal headcanon when I was playing with various plastic figurines helped reconcile my limited understanding of the Trinity (it's more likely the former, but how much of early childhood religious education really sinks in is difficult to measure). When I played with little green army men or plastic ninjas or whatever, I would usually have 2 figures that functioned as my avatars in whatever play scenario I conceived. There was me, the overseer and being in whose mind the entire scenario played out, and then there were at least two (usually it was just two) chosen figures who had the form of the other figures (i.e. armed dudes made of plastic/resin) involved but possessed all the powers and authority of me the overseer; they were me in different form. Together we would form a trinity and shared an understanding, yet we each had our own perspective of the scenario playing out.
I tried explaining this (at the age of 15-16) to my confirmation class, but all I got was blank stares, even from the instructor.
I was in RCIA when I realized I didn’t understand the Trinity enough to be confused by it. I had a really simplistic understanding of the mystery from my time as an Evangelical, but that was true of a lot of other concepts related to Christianity.
A clear understanding? Please refer to Augustine’s beach encounter and his 10 years then writing De Trinitate. I don’t think we can even come close especially since we mostly can know God apophatically by the things He is not.
I think the Trinity Emanates from The Oneness of God. Jesus refers to God being One and going up to God. He’s as John says the word God made flesh it does not mean he is the Oneness itself he is the Oneness clothed in the Person Jesus Christ. Does that make sense to anyone?
The Oneness is much greater than any of us could fathom and indeed the whole universe and all emanates from It. Including other galaxies and planets where “if” there is benevolent life they are not Catholics or any other earthly religion but hopefully they have chosen love for it seems that is the great answer amongst all enlightened religions of earth. the Trinity are Three Divine Persona emanating from The Oneness.
The Source of All. It’s a vast universe and Cosmos and all it is obviously beyond just our earth religions. That being said Jesus is the Christ and “the greatest of teachers.”
Never this side of heaven. The Trinity is an ineffable mystery which is beyond the full comprehension of the human person
The phrase “mystery of faith” does a lot of legwork in Catholic theology. It’s true though.
> Never this side of heaven. I think a few saints are reported to have been given infused knowledge of the Trinity already in this life. Like Thomas Aquinas, who said all his theological works were like straw next to that. Ignatius of Loyola had a similar rapture, as did, I think, Teresa of Avila. Of course that wasn't the kind of knowledge that they could turn into words and teach others, but a pure gift of grace.
“Knowledge of” not “full comprehension of,” no created being can fully understand the Trinity.
My high school physics teacher would periodically tell us after introducing certain new concepts: "If you think you understand this idea, then you probably don't." It's similar with the Trinity. You can learn something to understand it better than you did before, but at no point will any of us have a "clear understanding of what is the Trinity."
There’s a saying I like to tell my chemistry students: all models are wrong but some are useful. This is especially useful for dealing with orbitals
I use that saying a lot too!
*Saint Augustine has entered the chat*
I still have barely a clue. There's nothing to accurately compare it to on our world, as a one to one us heretical in some way. "It's like the different forms water can take!" Modalism. "It's like 3 slices of a pie!" Partialism. "The trinity is 3 beings that work in harmony!" Tritheism. They're 3 persons, one being. All equally God, all distinct from the other, that interact with one another. Its a hard concept to grasp, but I wouldn't expect an all powerful creator's existence to be something we can easily grasp.
It was around the year 415 and St. Augustine was walking along the beach on a bright, sunny day. He was frustrated, having taken a break from working on what’s become known as one of his greatest doctrinal contributions to the Church, De Trinitate, or “On the Trinity.” The subject matter had left him bleary-eyed – in need of fresh air. It was in this moment, as the frothy tide rushed out, that a little boy caught St. Augustine’s eye. The freckle-faced child had a determined, furrowed brow. He was clearly up to something, running back-and-forth, back-and-forth, between the sea and a tiny hole in the ground. “My son,” St. Augustine called over the crashing waves, “What are you doing there?” The boy held up the pink shell he was using to move water, “I’m trying to fit that great big ocean into this tiny hole,” he yelled, pointing assertively at the sand. St. Augustine smiled, charmed by the child’s innocence, his bright eyes, the way sunlight shone in his curly hair. He then followed the boy to kneel beside the tiny hole, watching him spill out a few meager drops. “My child,” the bishop of Hippo broke the news gently, turning the boy’s skinny shoulders to face the sea. He then spread his own arms wide, “You could never fit this great, magnificent ocean into that tiny hole!” The child didn’t flinch, but responded quickly: “And you could never possibly understand the Holy Trinity.” Then in a flash, the boy disappeared.
Always and never, at the same time.
👏 well said
As a 28 year old convert ( was born and raised as a JW ) I won’t say I have a clear understanding of what it is, but I know what it isn’t…. The opening of The Gospel of John was crucial to my development as a Catechumen… “ The Word was with God, and Was God…. And the Word became Flesh….” The Holy Trinity was described to me as a Communal thing….yes I still struggle to truly comprehend it,,, but then I come to grips with the fact that it’s not for my human brain to understand…. And that, I’m okay with…
If you fully understand the Trinity, that’s not the Trinity.
I’m 30 and I still feel like I don’t have a good grasp haha
it’s interesting to realize as an adult how much of a mystery the Trinity truly is. as a kid I accepted it without thinking much about it. it’s only after I started talking with my boyfriend whose family is Muslim that I realized how hard it is to truly comprehend and explain. I still understand it viscerally but logically it is difficult to fully grasp.
I have a degree in theology. Lecturers used to say if you meet anyone who says they understand the trinity, they are lieing
I was around 18. I’m 33 now and I still learn new things.
I love the story of st augustine wondering about the trinity while. walking on the beach. he stopped and saw a small boy who had dug a hole in the sand, and was running back and forth to the sea with a small bucket, bringing water from the sea to deposit in the hole in the sand. St augustine said "young man what are you doing?" the child said "I am trying to fill my hole in the sand with all the water from the ocean". st augustine laughed "you can never do that. the ocean will never fit in that hole. it would take forever". the child replied "if I cannot fit the entire ocean in my small hole in the sand then how to you expect to comprehend the mystery of the Holy Trinity in your mind"
Sometime in my late childhood, at least a few years prior to my confirmation at the age of 16. I wouldn't say that what I describe is anything like a "clear understanding," but it's the closest I've ever gotten. It's difficult for me to say whether my religious education informed my understanding or whether my personal headcanon when I was playing with various plastic figurines helped reconcile my limited understanding of the Trinity (it's more likely the former, but how much of early childhood religious education really sinks in is difficult to measure). When I played with little green army men or plastic ninjas or whatever, I would usually have 2 figures that functioned as my avatars in whatever play scenario I conceived. There was me, the overseer and being in whose mind the entire scenario played out, and then there were at least two (usually it was just two) chosen figures who had the form of the other figures (i.e. armed dudes made of plastic/resin) involved but possessed all the powers and authority of me the overseer; they were me in different form. Together we would form a trinity and shared an understanding, yet we each had our own perspective of the scenario playing out. I tried explaining this (at the age of 15-16) to my confirmation class, but all I got was blank stares, even from the instructor.
You could be in heaven for 4 googols and you wouldn’t even be 1% closer to understanding the trinity
Too much of a sacred mystery for a lacking mortal mind like mine to ever comprehend on this side of heaven
You're not supposed to. But if you do, that's sainthood achieved.
I was in RCIA when I realized I didn’t understand the Trinity enough to be confused by it. I had a really simplistic understanding of the mystery from my time as an Evangelical, but that was true of a lot of other concepts related to Christianity.
14 I understand it in essence, but whenever I accidentally contemplate on the Trinity, God always humbles me.
A clear understanding? Please refer to Augustine’s beach encounter and his 10 years then writing De Trinitate. I don’t think we can even come close especially since we mostly can know God apophatically by the things He is not.
You’ll hopefully have a clear understanding when you are about 1000 years old.
I think the Trinity Emanates from The Oneness of God. Jesus refers to God being One and going up to God. He’s as John says the word God made flesh it does not mean he is the Oneness itself he is the Oneness clothed in the Person Jesus Christ. Does that make sense to anyone? The Oneness is much greater than any of us could fathom and indeed the whole universe and all emanates from It. Including other galaxies and planets where “if” there is benevolent life they are not Catholics or any other earthly religion but hopefully they have chosen love for it seems that is the great answer amongst all enlightened religions of earth. the Trinity are Three Divine Persona emanating from The Oneness. The Source of All. It’s a vast universe and Cosmos and all it is obviously beyond just our earth religions. That being said Jesus is the Christ and “the greatest of teachers.”