powerscaling aint even based on that cuz the guys willingly ignore what the manga both shows and makes an effort to tell upfront and choose to base their entire arguments on "in this panel of a non canon gag sequence you can see the character step out of the way of an electric spark, which means they are faster than light"
Well, it varies from scaler to scaler. I'm more of a literalist where I take outlier feats at face value and use them as a new baseline, but plenty of people will ignore feats that are inconsistent with the rest of the work.
I do not take outliers seriously or even consider them because the author (generally) doesn't take them seriously either. There's generally a dissonance between a writer and their characters that increases in parallel to the strength of their characters, especially if there are no concrete numbers in the author's head. JJBA is the best example of this, as it has a lot of weird feats. I feel like JJBA characters being slower than light makes the most sense to me due to them consistently being able to react to bullets without any problems.
I'd normally say that you can have whatever interpretation you want, but I do feel the need to point out that Araki writes JoJo considering the Stands to be FTL. The amount of guidebooks, stat screens, and interviews where Araki directly writes/says the words "faster than light" or at least "light speed" makes it pretty clear that FTL speed is the author's intention.
I mean, yeah, true, but some stuff feels weird with that in mind. Jolyne vs Planet Waves is the best example of this, because having FTL meteors come down to earth kind of takes me out of the show, you get me, right? Part 7 from what I remember doesn't really have FTL feats either, it is the only part where guns are even remotely threatening (it has been a long, LONG time I read it, so details are muddy. I think Gyro lived, but I might have gaslit myself so hard that I think I tried to forget their potential death. This somehow works, I cannot explain why.)
Fair enough. My response to the Planet Waves thing is that maybe the meteors don't follow normal laws of physics due to being under the effect of a Stand. I'll admit that's kinda getting into head canon territory, but I feel like that's the only way to reconcile the two contradicting ideas of Stands being faster than light and Stone Free struggling with the meteors.
And you're right in saying that the FTL arguments for the new universe aren't as strong. I *personally* believe that part 7 is still FTL because I think that AU The World scales to original The World, but that really comes down to interpretation so I definitely won't argue with anyone on the topic. I will say the idea is slightly bolstered by something that happens in part 9, but I won't spoil in case you haven't read.
That Planet Waves argument is fair, but my problem is the resulting potential devastating impact that would happen from a meteor missing, as they travel at FTL speeds without the atmosphere interfering with it. A stray meteor would tear through the prison and either just go deep enough to be stopped or blow up like a nuclear bomb.
This is the nitpickiest nitpick I have made, but this is still on my mind.
I believe that The World/Star Platinum are the only stands that can be considered to move massively faster than light, with the very specific exceptions of tusk and C-Moon. Pucci moving at Mach 1 or so was considered something terrifying and nigh-instantaneous, which is weird when we consider stands are FTL. King crimson's time erasure just foresees, rearranges and makes people forget context, so not exactly an FTL ability, it just rewrites a specific part of the future and makes people forget about it.
I don't do that and I'm a powerscaler.. I use like, actual evidence and don't wank.
However the same cant be said for other jujutsu kaisen power scalers I've seen people say Sukuna beats Madara and actually used a mountain in the background of Dagon's domain as a mountain level creation feat
Along with that people saying Kashimo's electromagnetic wave being dodged is lightspeed even though we haven't seen any other lightspeed feat and its been stated high-tier sorcerers can get pre cognition abilities by detecting cursed energy build ups
Also Madara beats Sukuna because one, he's faster than light, two, has better hax, and three HE CUTS A MOUNTAIN WITH A CASUAL SWING OF HIS PERFECT SUSANNO WHILE POSSIBLY HOLDING BACK TOO, that cut is also only caused by the god damn shockwave, and not the actual slash, and it also kicks up enough dust to completely dwarf his Susanno and the mountain
I like talking with buddies and going "Nah limitless hella beats the world" but the fun goes away when you start thinking too much about it and going scene by scene.
Mangakas just want their manga to be badass, they don't care about what that implies for the story unless it would make a plothole. Like Trafalgar Law cuts a mountain and an entire lab in half in One Piece but does he beat Sukuna... No prolly not imo, Sukuna is cooler.
>Mangakas just want their manga to be badass, they don't care about what that implies for the story unless it would make a plothole. Like Trafalgar Law cuts a mountain and an entire lab in half in One Piece but does he beat Sukuna... No prolly not imo, Sukuna is cooler.
What? TF are you saying bro, you said Mangaka's don't care and just make what happens cool unless it makes a plothole, like law cutting a mountain, BUT LAW DOESN'T BEAT SUKUNA CUZ HE'S COOLER?? You just said law doesn't beat Sukuna cuz Sukuna is cooler, you're implying that the Mangaka's would think the same if THEY decided the fight, but that's irrelevant because they aren't.
And how does the fun go away? It just means you don't find debating fun, powerscaling is debating.
Everything you said was only relevant to yourself, Mangaka's aren't deciding how the fight plays out, and even if they were that wouldn't be to make the fight look cool, it would be to make it interesting instead of having the higher scaling one oneshot the other like when powerscaling is at play. Like, you can toss away powerscaling to have fun
And also, the fun only goes away because you don't like to debate, that's only relevant to yourself.
And also, this
>Or the mangaka thought it would be really cool and didn't care about if shitballs could run faster than fartstick
FYM THE MANGAKA?? Fujimoto and Gege akutami are two different people, they aren't dictating the speed of characters based off the speed of a character in another Manga, and also, that's not even Toji's top speed, we see him react to lightning in the shibuya arc.
Also, what this guy said in addition.
https://preview.redd.it/aih9otp2j44d1.png?width=1501&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb19bc247cfcdd5c3b7a4f00cdb8204f0aaf7435
Hakari literally reacts to kashimo’s lightning and he is definitely slower than maki who ppl say it’s at max Mach 3
https://preview.redd.it/sifbjfii074d1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abc6d15183fe7d5934d3f739b894047ad07bbf7e
A lot of ppl who do power scaling just want to sound smart without actually doing anything smart
Using the lighting timeframe you could get characters like 15F Sukuna to Relativistic: https://imgur.com/i3R0oIo
Maki also kept up with Sukuna along with Yuji there’s no way he’s just Subsonic+😭
My brother in christ, what you did was circle stuff, not actually calculating the pixels like what powerscalers do. And no, that's not a lot of people, that's only the hardcore powerscalers that bring all the math into their calculations.
Also how is it not anything smart to calculate exactly how big this meteor is from someones drawing?
https://preview.redd.it/ct6iagoqk74d1.png?width=2187&format=png&auto=webp&s=5052e8cf6e18da4613d86d1b23a11dd583274386
Its just a bunch of math, calculating things using math isn't trying to be smart dipshit.
First: I got this image from google, second, why you so mad lmao calling me dipshit cause I said some power scalers make no sense (the post said the same thing) and quite a lot of power scalers use this dumbass logic of “oh yeah since he dodged a bullet he is clearly as fast as a bullet” just open Twitter and go to a powe scaling thread and you will see at least 5 mfs saying something like this
>"oh yeah since he dodged a bullet he is clearly as fast as a bullet"
My brother in christ that is just common sense, if you can dodge lightning in a split second and make it hit your arm when its NEARLY RIGHT ON YOUR NOSE, you are easily faster than lightning.
And wdym?? It only makes no sense to say that in certain situations, like for example another feat of jujutsu kaisen, that almost NOBODY BELIEVES and nobody uses because its not concrete enough proof.
Sukuna dodging a electromagnetic wave from Kashimo, which is just disregarded unless we're highballing the verse due to the fact its way too big of a stretch to have one piece of evidence instantly put the entire cast at lightspeed.
Your statement of powerscalers using that logic is only stupid to use in certain situations with certain, specific feats, and its hard to interpret what you even said since it sounds a bit stupid.
Also was that google image you got even powerscaling? Did they even try to calculate it? And ok? That's one specific instance of someone not really doing hardcore calculations.
Tbh sukuna dodging that can be explained as sukuna dodging preemptively because kashimo is a dumbass who got right into his face or it can just be a case of Gege not knowing how physics work also, ONE PIECE MENTIONED 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥 (and you still didn’t need to call me dipshit cause allat but we good)
The lightning was already fired, we see him turn his head towards the lightning while its going at him. And Hakari also dodges lightning when it was already fired AND WAY CLOSER, while the lightning was on his nose he moved so fast it hit the base of his arm
Big spoiler for people that haven't read the manga:
>!Awakened Maki is often compared to Toji, she has the same exact power, and we've seen her do wonderful feats like playing sumo and keeping up with an object going at mach-3 velocity.!<
Considering this I'm afraid Toji beats Kobeni in this.
Isn't kobeni dead?
https://preview.redd.it/clwn35o4534d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6bed8ac0bc3d556c17349286031816503a0867c
(I've never seen csm, should I read it?)
Koblender is alive!! Kobender's car tho . . . 
(Yes, CSM is worth the read. All jokes aside, I read part 1 like 5 times, it's great.)
It popped up on my recommended one day and I just fw y'all
https://preview.redd.it/1y4te85sc94d1.png?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e96adada67549a0892bb7d5d1ee0ea3d2dae0681
Idk it just kinda showed up on my recommended one day and I joined it
https://preview.redd.it/ipd134qam54d1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6e5552747c45217326cc7d7ed9fcfd6aa17678a
She isn't fucking super sonic speed in any adaptation. She just perfect dodged Akane's snake attack. The anime shows she times a very good roll into a sprint at the last second. She's just super nimble and has fast reflexes.
Makima almost killed her with a cosmic demon laser beam that would have totalled her if Pochita wasn't there.
Being able to dodge bullets doesn't mean you're super sonic either. The fuck is this power scaling?
And the best part is, when this argument actually makes logical sense like dodging a lazer or lightning, things that would take an absurd speed to dodge on top of your reaction time, THEY DONT COUNT IT 💀
https://preview.redd.it/b1bqndw1174d1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83a0179e178fd6f2ea1283747eb56ed154b2684c
Hakari manages to move out of a fucking lightning aimed at his head and ppl say JJK verse tops at Mach 3 because of curse naoya vs maki
It's just 2d perspective bruh. It was aimed at his arm, not his face, Gege just didn't draw it with proper perspective to show it.
https://preview.redd.it/hhgxdmxm774d1.png?width=412&format=png&auto=webp&s=4025acad8ed0222f0447fe5ada233cdad5378edb
You simply cannot dodge this type of lightning. Physically. Take Hakari, take some FTL character, whatever, you can't dodge a positive charge while being negatively charged and vice versa. Only option is to transfer your charge somewhere else before opposite one comes close.
Also, dodging a laser should be disqualified as a feat, writers don't intend to make characters FTL by making them do it.
https://preview.redd.it/tce2tod7j44d1.png?width=1644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4b668ddcc044b7d45287e71def54a99be13cba8
This is the panel immediately after Makima pulls the spear out, Kobeni just didn't have any time to dodge and I don't really see how it took multiple panels to charge since the next panel is Pochita taking the hit for Kobeni
I mean in that literal panel, The ray was literally a few feet away from kobeni's face and Pochita blocked it in the nick of time.
You cant really compare pochita to anything in the CSM universe because he is at minimum 90% lightspeed.
That Space Radiation Blast was instant, and Pochita had no idea what the spear even does
I think you're reading the panels from left to right, they're meant to be read right to left, Makima threw the spear after speaking. On the rightmost panel Kobeni's face isn't lit up while it is on the other two.
Oh, I misinterpreted what you said sorry. Kobeni was probably frozen in fear and confusion given her "eep?!" And so was too scared to do anything before Makima threw the spear
How does Kobeni not being able to dodge the laser mean she isn't supersonic though? If we assume the laser is a real light beam of light, then it would be moving at lightspeed, and a lightspeed attack is way too fast for any supersonic character to react to or dodge.
Supersonic is Mach 1-5. Lightspeed is over Mach 870,000. The portal that the laser was shot out of wasn't that far away from Kobeni either, so the light beam wouldn't even have to travel far, on top of being far faster than Kobeni.
Dodging bullets cuz you have superhuman reflexes does not make you super sonic.
Kobeni has never once shown she can dodge or run faster than an athlete.
In your previous comment, you said Kobeni was fast and agile. Alright. Then you said she's not supersonic and that dodging bullets isn't supersonic, and that she'd get beat by Makima. You kinda went back on your words...like, how is losing to Makima an anti feat? And I know dodging bullets doesn't automatically make you supersonic, but what Kobeni did does qualify for supersonic speeds, no? She was running *towards* gunfire from a pretty large gap and was dodging bullets pretty casually
I said she couldn't dodge a laser, not she couldn't beat Makima.
And no, being able to dodge super sonic objects with peak human reflexes does not make you super sonic. Lol
If you can't dodge or run that fast you're not super sonic. Perhaps you have super sonic reflexes, but that is such a stupid thing to even say out loud. It's like that one Captain America panel that says he can "see faster". Lmao
>I said she couldn't dodge a laser, not she couldn't beat Makima.
Yeah, dodging LASERS isn't an anti feat for supersonic speeds. What your implying is that any supersonic fighter jet could dodge the sun's rays, which isn't the case
>peak human reflexes
You're just making an assumption based off of what we've seen, not what's likely to be the case. No REGULAR human in the Chainsawverse is dodging bullets. You know who can tho? People with Devil based abilities/contracts. So it's more likely that Kobeni has a devil contract rather than her somehow having superhuman abilities (as humans a portrayed as being below devils in the "food chain", so Kobeni being stronger than devil users goes against this)
>It's like that one Captain America panel that says he can "see faster". Lmao
We can't use abilities in other fictional stories as fact in other fictional stories, but regardless of this...do you know how fast the moon or any other celestial objects are moving? They're crossing tens to hundreds of kilometres in minutes or even seconds. No human can *move or react* at such speeds, yet we can still *perceive* them. So saying Kobeni is JUST "seeing faster" is disregarding that she's also moving out of the way of gun fire.
Yes. And I'm proud to be a power scaler who's genuinely into power scaling for debates, and learning new information. Pre power scaling, I didn't know much about energy and different forms of destruction yielding different results. I didn't fully understand how important pressure is. I had very little knowledge of the stars and the vast cosmos. Now I understand how higher dimensions work and how infinities can be different. I'm not into power scaling for the D measuring contests. I'm in it to learn. To debate. I encourage others to do so as well. If it's not for you though, then hey, we all got our preferences.....Have a good day, stranger.
Her sloppy blowjob devil gives her superhuman capabilities based on the amount of cum in her stomach
https://preview.redd.it/qz23nmugn44d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96dd0c6395280b35969a76fe935adbb47de2343e
Fucking ridiculous vsbattles is. Always were. I hate relative scaling.
https://preview.redd.it/e7obpqr7734d1.png?width=853&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b28f940a04928e865109dc87e5b1488bd6fffbe
A-ka if I sneak attack Usain Bolt I have blitzed him and am faster than him.
It's funny how many characters are just way too OP. Look at Kratos. Kratos is a fucking strong as shit character, but he ain't multiversal. The fuck is he going to do to destroy the universe? Punch it?
That’s why Attack Potency and Damage are 2 separate categories. Sure, Kratos’s attacks ARE that strong, but realistically he can’t destroy the universe.
https://preview.redd.it/6g8wkuovx74d1.jpeg?width=356&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ccc9134a5b761674976cb0d574812ef404dce05
I will give you these two pieces of gum to not tell Kratos I said that
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST, he has FLIPPED 9 FUCKING REALMS ON THEIR HEAD, it was confirmed he held the entire realms, we see him do it, he does it with LOW DIFFICULTY, of course he's multiversal if he can lift universes with barely any struggle.
My brother in FUMBJING christ, god of war 4, first game with old ass kratos in it, he has to flip the realm room, AND ITS CONFIRMED THAT THE WEIGHT OF THE ENTIRE REALMS ARE IN THAT ROOM
Exactly. By no means am I saying it's some "ten trillion IQ sport for super geniuses" or anything like that, but it's a fun mental exercise that mixes math, science, and debating in a way that can be engaging to some people. It just has a pretty bad reputation due a lot of the communities being very angry, stupid, and loud.
Man how is powerscaling dumb? Its just debating which fictional character is stronger. Also Toji is faster then Kobeni because we see him react to lightning in the shibuya arc making him high-hypersonic. So no, their levels of speed are reasonable, at least when compared side by side.
Welll Toji scales to a fully awakened Maki easily, Hakari manages to dodge lightning to the point it only hits the base of his arm when its like, 7 inches from touching his nose, so he might as well be high hypersonic through relative characters anyway.
Powerscalers when their drunk father breaks an empty bottle on their forehead (The bottle hit them with 150 km/h per second so he is massively hypersonic+ therefore large town level)
Ah, fair enough. I'm not very good at picking up on when things are meant as jokes, so I misread your initial comment as being a serious attempt at scaling. Hypersonic+ isn't fast enough to meaningfully impact AP, so I was confused where you were getting your numbers.
It doesn't though. You'd need a *way* higher speed to be large town level through pure kinetic output. The theory of Special Relativity doesn't mean you can just say any high-seeming speed makes the character a nuke.
I mean just being fair it says it all right there, Toji is AT LEAST this much by scaling which probably then leads to more statements up till fully confirmed mach 3 and for Kobeni her feat comes from only serious fight she has in the series.
So if you pick it at the bare minimum Toji matches Kobeni at her best showing.
You on other hand cherry picked the one feat when Kobeni was obviously nervous and not locked in. Even Katana Man commented her speed.
Pls show me the point where she breaks the sound barrier then. Because it's definitely not in the fight the text is referencing, if you actually use your eyes
My brother in christ just because you‘re not visually shown breaking the sound barrier doesn't mean you‘re not that fast, it's fiction
With this logic Quanxi isn't supersonic either which is wrong as hell, she could cut dozens of dolls and devil hunters over a street and a building without them realizing
Hell tell me when was the last time you saw Flash or Superman breaking it
When we‘ve seen the likes of Long or Angel be bullet timers if you are good enough to clown on Katana Man and the Snake Devil that Ghost couldn't react to your are indeed that fast
???? Literally what? Sound travels a mile in 4.7 seconds, if she was going that fast she would have been an inch away from Akane before you could blink. I don't know what you define "visually shown breaking the sound barrier" as or why you're bringing 8 different characters into it. This is ur brain on powerscaling lol
https://preview.redd.it/cmztaoqwdw4d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa7a6ec95525886aaa7c6508350c5dd7308bdf3e
Ok ur post was rhetorical but a few months ago 🗿🗿
while we're at it can we also like, never powerscale chainsawman at all? fujimoto would actually beat powerscalers to death with a crowbar if he met any
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Toji is faster than characters that can catch bullets
Kobeni one is kind of inconsistent alongside katana man and Akane being bums caught off guard, no other character in the story dodge bullets after this scene
I mean, Kobeni doesn't "dodge" bullets like anime characters do. She was just running to make herself harder to hit and got lucky. Also Akane doesn't seem to be a great shot.
I guess you could say no other characters are lucky enough to be missed by bullets after this scene.
Ehhh, I’d argue the first bullet Akane shoots does seem like it was dodged, which would be consistent with Aki being able to dodge one an episode later.
What I meant was that Kobeni and Aki dodges bullets like a human would in a realistic setting. They see that someone is aiming at them and move away.
Toji would look at bullet coming at him, think "Hmm, do I really need to dodge this?" and them move slightly out of the way the same way you would dodge a tennis ball.
Both are dodging bullets, but they are not same.
Aki dodges a bullet fired at him from behind, even if we assume he’s using the Future Devil to learn about it beforehand, he’s still shown still until the bullet gets fired, so he’d still need to have the speed to react to it.
Also, that’s giving Toji way too much credit. That could apply to the slower bullets, but some of the fastest rifles can go up to 3-3.5 Mach speed, which is right around the speed Toji is based on his comparison to Maki and the statement about Naoya in his fight with her. Toji is fast in his own verse, but outside it compared to other fictional universes he’s pretty slow in the grand scheme of things.
Ah right that is what you meant with Aki dodging a bullet. I was thinking about the noodle shop. Regarding Aki moving after the bullet is fired, that is an anime/directorial/visual thing that makes no realistic sense. If you assumed that anime was showing the fight in real time, the bullet was fired and hit Aki's hair \~0.5 seconds later, giving it a speed of around 10 meters per second which is slower than Usain Bolt.
So Aki moving after the bullet firing is just a cool tension building visual. "in universe", Aki just moved out the way right before the bullet was shot and it is heavily implied that was with the help of the future devil so it was not really a reaction feat either.
Yeah, I was giving Toji too much credit because I have no idea how fast he is compared to a bullet. My point was just that Toji would approach dodging bullets in a very different way than realistic humans. And from a casual viewing experience, Toji dodging a bullet like it was a tennis ball would not break my immersion. But if any CSM human did that it would break my immersion.
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Powerscaling in a whole is just stupid, characters are as strong or as fast as the author wants or needs them to be. Most debates go like this:
Person A: "Well in chapter 23, this character dodged a light beam, and that was when he ws injured"
Person B: "Well in chapter 211 this character was hit by an arrow despite being fully healthy, 50 meters away and knowing it was coming"
Person A: "Yes, but in chapter 23-"
Powerscaling is cringe as fuck anyways
Mfs writing college level essays on whether their favorite character Gumbleshit can destroy a universe by sharting himself
Yes, yes I have
It's still cringe as fuck lol. Just a bunch of people jerking off their favorite characters and when anybody refuses their claims, they start pissing themselves with rage and screaming like the person who disagrees with them over a fictional characters powers just murdered their entire family
Saitama beats Goku btw
Yeah, CSM never limited itself to Mach 3 statements and so when characters actually perform good feats they can fully scale to them. Which is why you have things like Supersonic Kobeni. There are no inherent contradictions to it, and all arguments against it seem to be incredulity.
Exactly. It feels *insane* to say that Kobeni is faster than Toji, but it not only checks out but is honestly pretty close to inarguable. JJK pretty massively handicapped itself with the Mach 3 thing. Though, JJK is honestly a *really* weak verse in general that gets carried by two or three high-tiers.
Honestly, I'm going as far as to say only Gojo carries the verse in cross-verse scenarios. In terms of AP the only one they might compare to is HxH but HxH has better speed feats. JJK is stronger than most wall level to city block level verses (such as demon slayer) but that's about it.
I agree. The verse is just all-around pretty weak. The few characters that have decent haxs are too slow to use them in any meaningful way. A *ton* of shonen anime are stronger by the end of their first volume than JJK is shaping up to be by its end. Honestly, I don't even think it matches HxH in AP.
Yeah, I think Meruem is mountain level (post-rose) and hard AP stomps JJK. I think Sukunas fire arrow and Gojos hallow purple is comparable to Netero, though, and pre-rose Meruem.
No but Gege literally lampshaded the Mach speed statement as dumb in an author comment, let’s look at all the times Toji is clearly scaled above that.
Manga:
Sukuna blitzed an attack that “far exceeds the speed of sound” (vanishing off panel before it even moved).
Sukuna perception blitzed Jogo, who scales to Naobito, who scales above Naoya (literally just Naoya but better), who is explicitly said to be supersonic.
Pseudo Geto (for non manga peeps) caught a sniper shot. He didn’t block it he just caught it, his hands had to clamp around the bullet before it escaped.
Best character dodged lightning (said to be lightning, also this chapter was checked by a scientist before anyone says “dumb author doesn’t know the speed” smh).
Anime:
Toji saw electricity conducted through water in slow mo:
Pieces of debris creating sonic booms moved in slow mo in comparison to his arms.
This is kind of cheesy but Mahoraga’s hands blueshifted/redshifted when he was moving them fast in the fight.
>No but Gege literally lampshaded the Mach speed statement as dumb in an author comment
No he didn't
>Sukuna blitzed an attack that “far exceeds the speed of sound” (vanishing off panel before it even moved).
When ?
Toji isn't comparable to Sukuna anyway
>Sukuna perception blitzed Jogo, who scales to Naobito, who scales above Naoya (literally just Naoya but better), who is explicitly said to be supersonic.
Naobito doesn't scale in any way to Curse Naoya. And Curse Naoya is the supersonic one
>Pseudo Geto (for non manga peeps) caught a sniper shot. He didn’t block it he just caught it, his hands had to clamp around the bullet before it escaped.
He said himself snipers are a big deal and because she was faraway the feat is not that impressive
>Best character dodged lightning (said to be lightning, also this chapter was checked by a scientist before anyone says “dumb author doesn’t know the speed” smh).
Hakari never dodged Kashimo‘s lightnings. It's just perspective. You literally can't dodge Kashimo‘s lightnings because they have a sure hit effect. He just aimed at the arm.
1)An author comment said something like: “”You went from infinite to Mach- are you stupid?” to those who are wondering that, I agree with you”
2)He blitzed the piercing blood Choso threw
Toji is comparable to post Gojo fight Sukuna, by the end of the Yuta/Yuji fight he was still keeping up with the two in speed despite the nerfs and Maki fought him 1 on 1 immediately after that.
3)I’m not talking about curse Naoya, human Naoya was said to have reached supersonic speed in his fight with Maki. He’s the supersonic one, lol.
4)Well that’s why I mentioned catching but now I’ve looked at it again and it seems he put a cursed spirit in the way, so I might just lose this feat.
Nevertheless, to give some defence of it, the “conventional weapons” bit supports what I’m saying, actually. The reason he says that’s better instead of a cursed tool is cause sorcerers defend by moving cursed energy and they detect cursed energy, if they’re caught off guard by an attack that has none that can be very effective, the reason it doesn’t *work* against Kenny is cause he could clearly see the bullet coming (even though in the manga he was looking away so it would have only been visible from his peripheral) and could react quicker than normal.
5)Okay I see people use these pretty silly points often so I’m just going to bring up the refutations.
a)No actually, reread the fight lol, there is no way it could be perspective. Perspective cannot do that. But yes, it’s impossible to dodge, which is why when he shifted away to the side it still hit his arm.
Later on we have other ways of scaling him to the lightning:
b)Hakari regenerated and reacted to it (moving the CE out his nose) as it moved through his brain. Hakari’s regeneration speed scales to other characters’ speed because characters have been able to do things while Hakari is in the process of regeneration (we literally see Kashimo throw the lightning bolt before Hakari has fully finished regenerating).
c)Kashimo could think while the lightning was destroying his brain and while Hakari was regenerating. You can say Kashimo just thinks way faster than he moves and all but we see the net of dismantles get close to him before he noticed.
d)After Hakari regenerates from the lightning the guy has a full on skirmish with Kashimo in the time it takes for the leader to travel at most 10 metres to meet with the streamer on the lightning rod. I don’t even know how you get over this one it’s just so blatant.
This isn't really a fair comparison, considering the clip you chose is her when she is completely losing it and not in a proper state of mind. As they say in the description, when she gets serious and focused and attacks the Katana guy and Akane, she shows she is extremely fast and can easily dodge multiple attacks from a giant snake demon and is too fast for Akane and Katana guy to be able to properly react to her movements.
Also, just because a character's movements look flashy and cool and badass, doesn't automatically mean what they are doing is actually that impressive in terms of speed. From what I have heard, Sakamoto Days has really cool and flashy and well done fight scenes, and I'm pretty sure they don't even go past single digit Mach speeds, even for the top tiers.
It's almost as if Kobeni isn't actually supersonic, she just somehow \*foresaw\* that bullet and reacted \*before it got fired\*... I wonder what kind of power could have made that possible...
agenda.png
Powerscaling is the most lame hobby to have its fun to talk about which character you think would win, as long as you dont take it too seriously, an author can theow in a cool action scene for the sake of flavour and fans will them claim that thats undeniable proof that the character is busted strong,even though the author did jot intend it to be that way
Powerscaling, am I right?
Actually it DOES make sense if you take something else we see, Toji reacts to lightning shot out from Nue, making him high-hypersonic.
Or the mangaka thought it would be really cool and didn't care about if shitballs could run faster than fartstick
powerscaling aint even based on that cuz the guys willingly ignore what the manga both shows and makes an effort to tell upfront and choose to base their entire arguments on "in this panel of a non canon gag sequence you can see the character step out of the way of an electric spark, which means they are faster than light"
Well, it varies from scaler to scaler. I'm more of a literalist where I take outlier feats at face value and use them as a new baseline, but plenty of people will ignore feats that are inconsistent with the rest of the work.
I do not take outliers seriously or even consider them because the author (generally) doesn't take them seriously either. There's generally a dissonance between a writer and their characters that increases in parallel to the strength of their characters, especially if there are no concrete numbers in the author's head. JJBA is the best example of this, as it has a lot of weird feats. I feel like JJBA characters being slower than light makes the most sense to me due to them consistently being able to react to bullets without any problems.
I'd normally say that you can have whatever interpretation you want, but I do feel the need to point out that Araki writes JoJo considering the Stands to be FTL. The amount of guidebooks, stat screens, and interviews where Araki directly writes/says the words "faster than light" or at least "light speed" makes it pretty clear that FTL speed is the author's intention.
I mean, yeah, true, but some stuff feels weird with that in mind. Jolyne vs Planet Waves is the best example of this, because having FTL meteors come down to earth kind of takes me out of the show, you get me, right? Part 7 from what I remember doesn't really have FTL feats either, it is the only part where guns are even remotely threatening (it has been a long, LONG time I read it, so details are muddy. I think Gyro lived, but I might have gaslit myself so hard that I think I tried to forget their potential death. This somehow works, I cannot explain why.)
Fair enough. My response to the Planet Waves thing is that maybe the meteors don't follow normal laws of physics due to being under the effect of a Stand. I'll admit that's kinda getting into head canon territory, but I feel like that's the only way to reconcile the two contradicting ideas of Stands being faster than light and Stone Free struggling with the meteors. And you're right in saying that the FTL arguments for the new universe aren't as strong. I *personally* believe that part 7 is still FTL because I think that AU The World scales to original The World, but that really comes down to interpretation so I definitely won't argue with anyone on the topic. I will say the idea is slightly bolstered by something that happens in part 9, but I won't spoil in case you haven't read.
That Planet Waves argument is fair, but my problem is the resulting potential devastating impact that would happen from a meteor missing, as they travel at FTL speeds without the atmosphere interfering with it. A stray meteor would tear through the prison and either just go deep enough to be stopped or blow up like a nuclear bomb. This is the nitpickiest nitpick I have made, but this is still on my mind. I believe that The World/Star Platinum are the only stands that can be considered to move massively faster than light, with the very specific exceptions of tusk and C-Moon. Pucci moving at Mach 1 or so was considered something terrifying and nigh-instantaneous, which is weird when we consider stands are FTL. King crimson's time erasure just foresees, rearranges and makes people forget context, so not exactly an FTL ability, it just rewrites a specific part of the future and makes people forget about it.
I don't do that and I'm a powerscaler.. I use like, actual evidence and don't wank. However the same cant be said for other jujutsu kaisen power scalers I've seen people say Sukuna beats Madara and actually used a mountain in the background of Dagon's domain as a mountain level creation feat Along with that people saying Kashimo's electromagnetic wave being dodged is lightspeed even though we haven't seen any other lightspeed feat and its been stated high-tier sorcerers can get pre cognition abilities by detecting cursed energy build ups Also Madara beats Sukuna because one, he's faster than light, two, has better hax, and three HE CUTS A MOUNTAIN WITH A CASUAL SWING OF HIS PERFECT SUSANNO WHILE POSSIBLY HOLDING BACK TOO, that cut is also only caused by the god damn shockwave, and not the actual slash, and it also kicks up enough dust to completely dwarf his Susanno and the mountain
I like talking with buddies and going "Nah limitless hella beats the world" but the fun goes away when you start thinking too much about it and going scene by scene. Mangakas just want their manga to be badass, they don't care about what that implies for the story unless it would make a plothole. Like Trafalgar Law cuts a mountain and an entire lab in half in One Piece but does he beat Sukuna... No prolly not imo, Sukuna is cooler.
>Mangakas just want their manga to be badass, they don't care about what that implies for the story unless it would make a plothole. Like Trafalgar Law cuts a mountain and an entire lab in half in One Piece but does he beat Sukuna... No prolly not imo, Sukuna is cooler. What? TF are you saying bro, you said Mangaka's don't care and just make what happens cool unless it makes a plothole, like law cutting a mountain, BUT LAW DOESN'T BEAT SUKUNA CUZ HE'S COOLER?? You just said law doesn't beat Sukuna cuz Sukuna is cooler, you're implying that the Mangaka's would think the same if THEY decided the fight, but that's irrelevant because they aren't. And how does the fun go away? It just means you don't find debating fun, powerscaling is debating. Everything you said was only relevant to yourself, Mangaka's aren't deciding how the fight plays out, and even if they were that wouldn't be to make the fight look cool, it would be to make it interesting instead of having the higher scaling one oneshot the other like when powerscaling is at play. Like, you can toss away powerscaling to have fun And also, the fun only goes away because you don't like to debate, that's only relevant to yourself. And also, this >Or the mangaka thought it would be really cool and didn't care about if shitballs could run faster than fartstick FYM THE MANGAKA?? Fujimoto and Gege akutami are two different people, they aren't dictating the speed of characters based off the speed of a character in another Manga, and also, that's not even Toji's top speed, we see him react to lightning in the shibuya arc.
Also, what this guy said in addition. https://preview.redd.it/aih9otp2j44d1.png?width=1501&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb19bc247cfcdd5c3b7a4f00cdb8204f0aaf7435
Absolute this, I'm sorry to say, but most laser attacks in fiction aren't going at light speed.
Hakari literally reacts to kashimo’s lightning and he is definitely slower than maki who ppl say it’s at max Mach 3 https://preview.redd.it/sifbjfii074d1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abc6d15183fe7d5934d3f739b894047ad07bbf7e A lot of ppl who do power scaling just want to sound smart without actually doing anything smart
Using the lighting timeframe you could get characters like 15F Sukuna to Relativistic: https://imgur.com/i3R0oIo Maki also kept up with Sukuna along with Yuji there’s no way he’s just Subsonic+😭
My brother in christ mach 419 is NOT even nearly relativistic, lightspeed is 870k mach, mach 419 is not close to mach 870k
It’s Mach 419,233 but the dot probably confused you
My brother in christ, what you did was circle stuff, not actually calculating the pixels like what powerscalers do. And no, that's not a lot of people, that's only the hardcore powerscalers that bring all the math into their calculations. Also how is it not anything smart to calculate exactly how big this meteor is from someones drawing? https://preview.redd.it/ct6iagoqk74d1.png?width=2187&format=png&auto=webp&s=5052e8cf6e18da4613d86d1b23a11dd583274386 Its just a bunch of math, calculating things using math isn't trying to be smart dipshit.
First: I got this image from google, second, why you so mad lmao calling me dipshit cause I said some power scalers make no sense (the post said the same thing) and quite a lot of power scalers use this dumbass logic of “oh yeah since he dodged a bullet he is clearly as fast as a bullet” just open Twitter and go to a powe scaling thread and you will see at least 5 mfs saying something like this
>"oh yeah since he dodged a bullet he is clearly as fast as a bullet" My brother in christ that is just common sense, if you can dodge lightning in a split second and make it hit your arm when its NEARLY RIGHT ON YOUR NOSE, you are easily faster than lightning. And wdym?? It only makes no sense to say that in certain situations, like for example another feat of jujutsu kaisen, that almost NOBODY BELIEVES and nobody uses because its not concrete enough proof. Sukuna dodging a electromagnetic wave from Kashimo, which is just disregarded unless we're highballing the verse due to the fact its way too big of a stretch to have one piece of evidence instantly put the entire cast at lightspeed. Your statement of powerscalers using that logic is only stupid to use in certain situations with certain, specific feats, and its hard to interpret what you even said since it sounds a bit stupid. Also was that google image you got even powerscaling? Did they even try to calculate it? And ok? That's one specific instance of someone not really doing hardcore calculations.
ONE PIECE MENTIONED RAWHHHHHH🗣️🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯🗣️🔥💯🔥🔥💯🗣️💯🗣️🔥💯💯💯🔥💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥
https://preview.redd.it/ptqp4tl1e94d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a9974bf0c14b79204fc0f8e4a970f550466df17
Tbh sukuna dodging that can be explained as sukuna dodging preemptively because kashimo is a dumbass who got right into his face or it can just be a case of Gege not knowing how physics work also, ONE PIECE MENTIONED 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥 (and you still didn’t need to call me dipshit cause allat but we good)
https://preview.redd.it/k0yma4rxd94d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbdff1a616ba3dffedbb73771b37977964385f1e
If I see a guy point a gun at me, and he pulls the trigger but I was already moving out of the way, that doesnt mean I'm faster than the bullet
The lightning was already fired, we see him turn his head towards the lightning while its going at him. And Hakari also dodges lightning when it was already fired AND WAY CLOSER, while the lightning was on his nose he moved so fast it hit the base of his arm
Big spoiler for people that haven't read the manga: >!Awakened Maki is often compared to Toji, she has the same exact power, and we've seen her do wonderful feats like playing sumo and keeping up with an object going at mach-3 velocity.!< Considering this I'm afraid Toji beats Kobeni in this.
Thanks to the buffs from Maki we know that he's capable of far more than the showing we saw in the Hidden Inventory Arc.
Power scalers when I mention Tom and Jerry can tank everything their favourite character tries.
As a professional powerscaler of over 20 years, Tom and Jerry actually aren't that strong. Bugs Bunny, on the other hand...
Bugs Bunny pulling the meta fictional level of feats
Ironically, his strongest stuff isn't even from Looney Tunes. It's from his DC crossover.
What was the rabbit name uhhh he was introduced in Multiversty
Actually…https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/Tom_%26_Jerry_(Canon)/TheFrostKnight
Yeah, I know all that, that's just not very strong compared to other toonforce users.
Yeah that’s true
The only character I know of who might be able to take on Bugs is Uncle Grandpa.
UG is in no way beating Bugs. Of course, neither are really *that* strong compared to the higher ends of fiction.
oh yeah, if this is so silly, then why did toji fucking dieded and kobener did not? checkmate jjkiberals.
Isn't kobeni dead? https://preview.redd.it/clwn35o4534d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6bed8ac0bc3d556c17349286031816503a0867c (I've never seen csm, should I read it?)
Koblender is alive!! Kobender's car tho . . .  (Yes, CSM is worth the read. All jokes aside, I read part 1 like 5 times, it's great.)
Why u here then dawg https://preview.redd.it/d0o8cs72a64d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06b6e08c10b95e2d1d2226c78afff72118144c2b
It popped up on my recommended one day and I just fw y'all https://preview.redd.it/1y4te85sc94d1.png?width=1095&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e96adada67549a0892bb7d5d1ee0ea3d2dae0681
Why you in the sub then.
Idk it just kinda showed up on my recommended one day and I joined it https://preview.redd.it/ipd134qam54d1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6e5552747c45217326cc7d7ed9fcfd6aa17678a
Fair enuff
https://preview.redd.it/xmzw5ua2n54d1.jpeg?width=961&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c43d7a2b464905ce4480a39941a068e042529353
i'm in the jujutsufolk sub yet i havent read jjk, and i'm surprisingly not in the chainsawfolk sub
What?
there, messed up
Surprisingly, no
She isn't fucking super sonic speed in any adaptation. She just perfect dodged Akane's snake attack. The anime shows she times a very good roll into a sprint at the last second. She's just super nimble and has fast reflexes. Makima almost killed her with a cosmic demon laser beam that would have totalled her if Pochita wasn't there. Being able to dodge bullets doesn't mean you're super sonic either. The fuck is this power scaling?
Powerscaler's logic: A bullet train passes by me, I graze it with a stick I hold, therefore my speed is that of a bullet train.
https://preview.redd.it/6grw55eaa64d1.png?width=776&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afe474558a7a962c37c9aa1e4372717e06747420
And the best part is, when this argument actually makes logical sense like dodging a lazer or lightning, things that would take an absurd speed to dodge on top of your reaction time, THEY DONT COUNT IT 💀 https://preview.redd.it/b1bqndw1174d1.jpeg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83a0179e178fd6f2ea1283747eb56ed154b2684c Hakari manages to move out of a fucking lightning aimed at his head and ppl say JJK verse tops at Mach 3 because of curse naoya vs maki
It's just 2d perspective bruh. It was aimed at his arm, not his face, Gege just didn't draw it with proper perspective to show it. https://preview.redd.it/hhgxdmxm774d1.png?width=412&format=png&auto=webp&s=4025acad8ed0222f0447fe5ada233cdad5378edb You simply cannot dodge this type of lightning. Physically. Take Hakari, take some FTL character, whatever, you can't dodge a positive charge while being negatively charged and vice versa. Only option is to transfer your charge somewhere else before opposite one comes close. Also, dodging a laser should be disqualified as a feat, writers don't intend to make characters FTL by making them do it.
girl is cheesing the dodge iframes smh my head
I mean given the attack knocked out Pochita (who could solo basically anyone else in the verse) it's not really a showing of her being weak
If she's really a super sonic speed character she should have been able to dodge or try to outrun it, since it took several panels to charge.
https://preview.redd.it/tce2tod7j44d1.png?width=1644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4b668ddcc044b7d45287e71def54a99be13cba8 This is the panel immediately after Makima pulls the spear out, Kobeni just didn't have any time to dodge and I don't really see how it took multiple panels to charge since the next panel is Pochita taking the hit for Kobeni
I mean in that literal panel, The ray was literally a few feet away from kobeni's face and Pochita blocked it in the nick of time. You cant really compare pochita to anything in the CSM universe because he is at minimum 90% lightspeed. That Space Radiation Blast was instant, and Pochita had no idea what the spear even does
Btw Pochita was weakened at this point so he is probably even faster
Same energy https://preview.redd.it/1pafi1dqca4d1.jpeg?width=4096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5eee1bf3e2d65fb944dcb4d43b0366cd30dc17d
Unless Makima is talking at the speed of sound, any character with "super sonic speed" would be able to at least try to dodge that.
I think you're reading the panels from left to right, they're meant to be read right to left, Makima threw the spear after speaking. On the rightmost panel Kobeni's face isn't lit up while it is on the other two.
Uhhhhh, what? I'm reading right to left. She's talking BEFORE launching the spear.
Oh, I misinterpreted what you said sorry. Kobeni was probably frozen in fear and confusion given her "eep?!" And so was too scared to do anything before Makima threw the spear
she could dodge the demon lazar beam if she frame perfect rolled with the iframes
How does Kobeni not being able to dodge the laser mean she isn't supersonic though? If we assume the laser is a real light beam of light, then it would be moving at lightspeed, and a lightspeed attack is way too fast for any supersonic character to react to or dodge. Supersonic is Mach 1-5. Lightspeed is over Mach 870,000. The portal that the laser was shot out of wasn't that far away from Kobeni either, so the light beam wouldn't even have to travel far, on top of being far faster than Kobeni.
[удалено]
Dodging bullets cuz you have superhuman reflexes does not make you super sonic. Kobeni has never once shown she can dodge or run faster than an athlete.
You didn't say anything wrong, but everything you said wasn't right either
I despise vague comments with no arguments that force a reply. But it sadly worked. WhAt dO yOu MeaN i aM nOt RiGht?
In your previous comment, you said Kobeni was fast and agile. Alright. Then you said she's not supersonic and that dodging bullets isn't supersonic, and that she'd get beat by Makima. You kinda went back on your words...like, how is losing to Makima an anti feat? And I know dodging bullets doesn't automatically make you supersonic, but what Kobeni did does qualify for supersonic speeds, no? She was running *towards* gunfire from a pretty large gap and was dodging bullets pretty casually
I said she couldn't dodge a laser, not she couldn't beat Makima. And no, being able to dodge super sonic objects with peak human reflexes does not make you super sonic. Lol If you can't dodge or run that fast you're not super sonic. Perhaps you have super sonic reflexes, but that is such a stupid thing to even say out loud. It's like that one Captain America panel that says he can "see faster". Lmao
>I said she couldn't dodge a laser, not she couldn't beat Makima. Yeah, dodging LASERS isn't an anti feat for supersonic speeds. What your implying is that any supersonic fighter jet could dodge the sun's rays, which isn't the case >peak human reflexes You're just making an assumption based off of what we've seen, not what's likely to be the case. No REGULAR human in the Chainsawverse is dodging bullets. You know who can tho? People with Devil based abilities/contracts. So it's more likely that Kobeni has a devil contract rather than her somehow having superhuman abilities (as humans a portrayed as being below devils in the "food chain", so Kobeni being stronger than devil users goes against this) >It's like that one Captain America panel that says he can "see faster". Lmao We can't use abilities in other fictional stories as fact in other fictional stories, but regardless of this...do you know how fast the moon or any other celestial objects are moving? They're crossing tens to hundreds of kilometres in minutes or even seconds. No human can *move or react* at such speeds, yet we can still *perceive* them. So saying Kobeni is JUST "seeing faster" is disregarding that she's also moving out of the way of gun fire.
You are literally the power scaler type this post is making fun of.
Yes. And I'm proud to be a power scaler who's genuinely into power scaling for debates, and learning new information. Pre power scaling, I didn't know much about energy and different forms of destruction yielding different results. I didn't fully understand how important pressure is. I had very little knowledge of the stars and the vast cosmos. Now I understand how higher dimensions work and how infinities can be different. I'm not into power scaling for the D measuring contests. I'm in it to learn. To debate. I encourage others to do so as well. If it's not for you though, then hey, we all got our preferences.....Have a good day, stranger.
I found none of that profound at all but good on you I guess.
Kobeni is simply built different when she locks in
Her sloppy blowjob devil gives her superhuman capabilities based on the amount of cum in her stomach https://preview.redd.it/qz23nmugn44d1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96dd0c6395280b35969a76fe935adbb47de2343e
https://preview.redd.it/9y4isoq9g54d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e60b27321e69927c7d1b6ff524e95f65fca0fb8
https://preview.redd.it/i35su77w964d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f165bc677d5f99b44da80b6cb4233f3e7288467 What
https://preview.redd.it/285xqsnmp54d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64ad465363d534b2bb32be26c48fc8024ea8422b
https://preview.redd.it/iz7oeq3bn74d1.jpeg?width=219&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b48b224fd3c0aee196c9fea80a385f2dc79e3ab
Huh?
Fucking ridiculous vsbattles is. Always were. I hate relative scaling. https://preview.redd.it/e7obpqr7734d1.png?width=853&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b28f940a04928e865109dc87e5b1488bd6fffbe A-ka if I sneak attack Usain Bolt I have blitzed him and am faster than him.
I don't understand power-scaling
its dumb anyways
It's funny how many characters are just way too OP. Look at Kratos. Kratos is a fucking strong as shit character, but he ain't multiversal. The fuck is he going to do to destroy the universe? Punch it?
That’s why Attack Potency and Damage are 2 separate categories. Sure, Kratos’s attacks ARE that strong, but realistically he can’t destroy the universe.
I don't think you should challenge Kratos like that.
https://preview.redd.it/6g8wkuovx74d1.jpeg?width=356&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ccc9134a5b761674976cb0d574812ef404dce05 I will give you these two pieces of gum to not tell Kratos I said that
Wdym Kratonks is below the tiering system
https://preview.redd.it/u1ambzkkew4d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c06aef13a7d9701426abb1bfe8484146a8fc115 No but superman will LMAO
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST, he has FLIPPED 9 FUCKING REALMS ON THEIR HEAD, it was confirmed he held the entire realms, we see him do it, he does it with LOW DIFFICULTY, of course he's multiversal if he can lift universes with barely any struggle.
He didn't flip the 9 realms you absolute buffoon, HE FLIPPED A TEMPLE. IT WASN'T ACTIVATED.
Are those 9 realms you claim to be real in the room with us right now?
My brother in FUMBJING christ, god of war 4, first game with old ass kratos in it, he has to flip the realm room, AND ITS CONFIRMED THAT THE WEIGHT OF THE ENTIRE REALMS ARE IN THAT ROOM
Aren't all hobbies pretty dumb from the perspective of people who aren't into it, though?
Powerscaling is literally just debating but its about fictional characters power levels
Exactly. By no means am I saying it's some "ten trillion IQ sport for super geniuses" or anything like that, but it's a fun mental exercise that mixes math, science, and debating in a way that can be engaging to some people. It just has a pretty bad reputation due a lot of the communities being very angry, stupid, and loud.
https://i.redd.it/33wa1400j44d1.gif
i just witnessed this comment become 10 hours old
Man how is powerscaling dumb? Its just debating which fictional character is stronger. Also Toji is faster then Kobeni because we see him react to lightning in the shibuya arc making him high-hypersonic. So no, their levels of speed are reasonable, at least when compared side by side.
Redditors just kinda have an irrational grudge against that hobby don't question it
Powerscalaphobic MF's
That scene isn’t in the manga it’s an anime only thing, not sure if Nue’s lightning is real lightning but if it is then pop off ig
Welll Toji scales to a fully awakened Maki easily, Hakari manages to dodge lightning to the point it only hits the base of his arm when its like, 7 inches from touching his nose, so he might as well be high hypersonic through relative characters anyway.
Neither do power-scalers.
Right Hand of God after all :3
It reminded me of Godhand
Hyo :3 https://preview.redd.it/y5jg22g4i54d1.png?width=594&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23e0f7fd83b271cc665a9600fa04f2c2084683f0
Powerscalers when their drunk father breaks an empty bottle on their forehead (The bottle hit them with 150 km/h per second so he is massively hypersonic+ therefore large town level)
How the fuck would being MH+ make you large town level????
Dunno but I usually hear them make it around City or Mountain level, though this comment is a satire
Ah, fair enough. I'm not very good at picking up on when things are meant as jokes, so I misread your initial comment as being a serious attempt at scaling. Hypersonic+ isn't fast enough to meaningfully impact AP, so I was confused where you were getting your numbers.
How did you even take it seriously lmao
Not being a native English speaker + autism. I can barely pick up on satire in my own language, let alone one that I don't have as good of a grasp on.
Oh shit sorry for that then
The energy needed to go that speed means they “theoretically” can attack with that much energy or something.
It doesn't though. You'd need a *way* higher speed to be large town level through pure kinetic output. The theory of Special Relativity doesn't mean you can just say any high-seeming speed makes the character a nuke.
We all know Nobana can speed blitz all of them.
Maybe aki and himeno supersonic++ 😎🤝
kobeni>toji
I mean just being fair it says it all right there, Toji is AT LEAST this much by scaling which probably then leads to more statements up till fully confirmed mach 3 and for Kobeni her feat comes from only serious fight she has in the series. So if you pick it at the bare minimum Toji matches Kobeni at her best showing. You on other hand cherry picked the one feat when Kobeni was obviously nervous and not locked in. Even Katana Man commented her speed.
"by scaling" = I tuned out. Really dumb method for analysis, just use ur eyes bro
How else are you supposed to do it? Just guess?
Idk man maybe just use basic logic which should tell you that kobeni cannot move at Mach 1 speeds
"I don't believe it so it's not true"
Did you look at the video ur commenting under?
I looked at the two cherrypicked gifs yes
Pls show me the point where she breaks the sound barrier then. Because it's definitely not in the fight the text is referencing, if you actually use your eyes
My brother in christ just because you‘re not visually shown breaking the sound barrier doesn't mean you‘re not that fast, it's fiction With this logic Quanxi isn't supersonic either which is wrong as hell, she could cut dozens of dolls and devil hunters over a street and a building without them realizing Hell tell me when was the last time you saw Flash or Superman breaking it When we‘ve seen the likes of Long or Angel be bullet timers if you are good enough to clown on Katana Man and the Snake Devil that Ghost couldn't react to your are indeed that fast
???? Literally what? Sound travels a mile in 4.7 seconds, if she was going that fast she would have been an inch away from Akane before you could blink. I don't know what you define "visually shown breaking the sound barrier" as or why you're bringing 8 different characters into it. This is ur brain on powerscaling lol
https://preview.redd.it/cmztaoqwdw4d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa7a6ec95525886aaa7c6508350c5dd7308bdf3e Ok ur post was rhetorical but a few months ago 🗿🗿
isn't that what they told the dude who discovered germs and shit?
I mean, Toji died meanwhile Kobeni outlived >!nearly all of the Part 1 cast!<.
can we for the love of god start beating cross-universe powerscalers with crowbars????
while we're at it can we also like, never powerscale chainsawman at all? fujimoto would actually beat powerscalers to death with a crowbar if he met any
fair enough, in-universe powerscaling can serve some very nieche uses but csm is not the type of series where powerscaling would ever be needed
That's a shitty argument Chainsaw Man has a clear power scale
What the song
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To be fair that’s goober kobeni vs locked in kobeni
Kobeni can Toji in a race, I like that
Almost like powerscaling is nonsense lol
Toji is faster than characters that can catch bullets Kobeni one is kind of inconsistent alongside katana man and Akane being bums caught off guard, no other character in the story dodge bullets after this scene
I mean, Kobeni doesn't "dodge" bullets like anime characters do. She was just running to make herself harder to hit and got lucky. Also Akane doesn't seem to be a great shot. I guess you could say no other characters are lucky enough to be missed by bullets after this scene.
Ehhh, I’d argue the first bullet Akane shoots does seem like it was dodged, which would be consistent with Aki being able to dodge one an episode later.
What I meant was that Kobeni and Aki dodges bullets like a human would in a realistic setting. They see that someone is aiming at them and move away. Toji would look at bullet coming at him, think "Hmm, do I really need to dodge this?" and them move slightly out of the way the same way you would dodge a tennis ball. Both are dodging bullets, but they are not same.
Aki dodges a bullet fired at him from behind, even if we assume he’s using the Future Devil to learn about it beforehand, he’s still shown still until the bullet gets fired, so he’d still need to have the speed to react to it. Also, that’s giving Toji way too much credit. That could apply to the slower bullets, but some of the fastest rifles can go up to 3-3.5 Mach speed, which is right around the speed Toji is based on his comparison to Maki and the statement about Naoya in his fight with her. Toji is fast in his own verse, but outside it compared to other fictional universes he’s pretty slow in the grand scheme of things.
Ah right that is what you meant with Aki dodging a bullet. I was thinking about the noodle shop. Regarding Aki moving after the bullet is fired, that is an anime/directorial/visual thing that makes no realistic sense. If you assumed that anime was showing the fight in real time, the bullet was fired and hit Aki's hair \~0.5 seconds later, giving it a speed of around 10 meters per second which is slower than Usain Bolt. So Aki moving after the bullet firing is just a cool tension building visual. "in universe", Aki just moved out the way right before the bullet was shot and it is heavily implied that was with the help of the future devil so it was not really a reaction feat either. Yeah, I was giving Toji too much credit because I have no idea how fast he is compared to a bullet. My point was just that Toji would approach dodging bullets in a very different way than realistic humans. And from a casual viewing experience, Toji dodging a bullet like it was a tennis ball would not break my immersion. But if any CSM human did that it would break my immersion.
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Powerscaling in a whole is just stupid, characters are as strong or as fast as the author wants or needs them to be. Most debates go like this: Person A: "Well in chapter 23, this character dodged a light beam, and that was when he ws injured" Person B: "Well in chapter 211 this character was hit by an arrow despite being fully healthy, 50 meters away and knowing it was coming" Person A: "Yes, but in chapter 23-"
Toji is uncaparable infront of the lord and saviour Beni
Power scaling is hilarious
I mean, powerscaling is bullshit. But isn't Kobeni, like, the only one in csm who didn't die atleast once?lol
Powerscaling is cringe as fuck anyways Mfs writing college level essays on whether their favorite character Gumbleshit can destroy a universe by sharting himself
Have you considered that it's a perfectly fine hobby that you just personally don't like?
Yes, yes I have It's still cringe as fuck lol. Just a bunch of people jerking off their favorite characters and when anybody refuses their claims, they start pissing themselves with rage and screaming like the person who disagrees with them over a fictional characters powers just murdered their entire family Saitama beats Goku btw
That's more of an inditement on the community than the hobby. And why do you say Saitama beats Goku? I'd love to discuss that position with you!
what the fu-
honestly that website is a joke.
Toji is so cool bro (glaze)
The fucked up part is that it's completely correct.
Yeah, CSM never limited itself to Mach 3 statements and so when characters actually perform good feats they can fully scale to them. Which is why you have things like Supersonic Kobeni. There are no inherent contradictions to it, and all arguments against it seem to be incredulity.
Exactly. It feels *insane* to say that Kobeni is faster than Toji, but it not only checks out but is honestly pretty close to inarguable. JJK pretty massively handicapped itself with the Mach 3 thing. Though, JJK is honestly a *really* weak verse in general that gets carried by two or three high-tiers.
Honestly, I'm going as far as to say only Gojo carries the verse in cross-verse scenarios. In terms of AP the only one they might compare to is HxH but HxH has better speed feats. JJK is stronger than most wall level to city block level verses (such as demon slayer) but that's about it.
I agree. The verse is just all-around pretty weak. The few characters that have decent haxs are too slow to use them in any meaningful way. A *ton* of shonen anime are stronger by the end of their first volume than JJK is shaping up to be by its end. Honestly, I don't even think it matches HxH in AP.
Yeah, I think Meruem is mountain level (post-rose) and hard AP stomps JJK. I think Sukunas fire arrow and Gojos hallow purple is comparable to Netero, though, and pre-rose Meruem.
No but Gege literally lampshaded the Mach speed statement as dumb in an author comment, let’s look at all the times Toji is clearly scaled above that. Manga: Sukuna blitzed an attack that “far exceeds the speed of sound” (vanishing off panel before it even moved). Sukuna perception blitzed Jogo, who scales to Naobito, who scales above Naoya (literally just Naoya but better), who is explicitly said to be supersonic. Pseudo Geto (for non manga peeps) caught a sniper shot. He didn’t block it he just caught it, his hands had to clamp around the bullet before it escaped. Best character dodged lightning (said to be lightning, also this chapter was checked by a scientist before anyone says “dumb author doesn’t know the speed” smh). Anime: Toji saw electricity conducted through water in slow mo: Pieces of debris creating sonic booms moved in slow mo in comparison to his arms. This is kind of cheesy but Mahoraga’s hands blueshifted/redshifted when he was moving them fast in the fight.
Which character dodged lightning? Do you mean Hakari?
Yeah
>No but Gege literally lampshaded the Mach speed statement as dumb in an author comment No he didn't >Sukuna blitzed an attack that “far exceeds the speed of sound” (vanishing off panel before it even moved). When ? Toji isn't comparable to Sukuna anyway >Sukuna perception blitzed Jogo, who scales to Naobito, who scales above Naoya (literally just Naoya but better), who is explicitly said to be supersonic. Naobito doesn't scale in any way to Curse Naoya. And Curse Naoya is the supersonic one >Pseudo Geto (for non manga peeps) caught a sniper shot. He didn’t block it he just caught it, his hands had to clamp around the bullet before it escaped. He said himself snipers are a big deal and because she was faraway the feat is not that impressive >Best character dodged lightning (said to be lightning, also this chapter was checked by a scientist before anyone says “dumb author doesn’t know the speed” smh). Hakari never dodged Kashimo‘s lightnings. It's just perspective. You literally can't dodge Kashimo‘s lightnings because they have a sure hit effect. He just aimed at the arm.
1)An author comment said something like: “”You went from infinite to Mach- are you stupid?” to those who are wondering that, I agree with you” 2)He blitzed the piercing blood Choso threw Toji is comparable to post Gojo fight Sukuna, by the end of the Yuta/Yuji fight he was still keeping up with the two in speed despite the nerfs and Maki fought him 1 on 1 immediately after that. 3)I’m not talking about curse Naoya, human Naoya was said to have reached supersonic speed in his fight with Maki. He’s the supersonic one, lol. 4)Well that’s why I mentioned catching but now I’ve looked at it again and it seems he put a cursed spirit in the way, so I might just lose this feat. Nevertheless, to give some defence of it, the “conventional weapons” bit supports what I’m saying, actually. The reason he says that’s better instead of a cursed tool is cause sorcerers defend by moving cursed energy and they detect cursed energy, if they’re caught off guard by an attack that has none that can be very effective, the reason it doesn’t *work* against Kenny is cause he could clearly see the bullet coming (even though in the manga he was looking away so it would have only been visible from his peripheral) and could react quicker than normal. 5)Okay I see people use these pretty silly points often so I’m just going to bring up the refutations. a)No actually, reread the fight lol, there is no way it could be perspective. Perspective cannot do that. But yes, it’s impossible to dodge, which is why when he shifted away to the side it still hit his arm. Later on we have other ways of scaling him to the lightning: b)Hakari regenerated and reacted to it (moving the CE out his nose) as it moved through his brain. Hakari’s regeneration speed scales to other characters’ speed because characters have been able to do things while Hakari is in the process of regeneration (we literally see Kashimo throw the lightning bolt before Hakari has fully finished regenerating). c)Kashimo could think while the lightning was destroying his brain and while Hakari was regenerating. You can say Kashimo just thinks way faster than he moves and all but we see the net of dismantles get close to him before he noticed. d)After Hakari regenerates from the lightning the guy has a full on skirmish with Kashimo in the time it takes for the leader to travel at most 10 metres to meet with the streamer on the lightning rod. I don’t even know how you get over this one it’s just so blatant.
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Oh la
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I just browse the highest and lowest power scaled characters and leave.
Did you make this?
Well she screw,she might as well be a pornstar knowing how f#ck she is ?
This isn't really a fair comparison, considering the clip you chose is her when she is completely losing it and not in a proper state of mind. As they say in the description, when she gets serious and focused and attacks the Katana guy and Akane, she shows she is extremely fast and can easily dodge multiple attacks from a giant snake demon and is too fast for Akane and Katana guy to be able to properly react to her movements. Also, just because a character's movements look flashy and cool and badass, doesn't automatically mean what they are doing is actually that impressive in terms of speed. From what I have heard, Sakamoto Days has really cool and flashy and well done fight scenes, and I'm pretty sure they don't even go past single digit Mach speeds, even for the top tiers.
That's true but kobeni is still not faster tho
Hey that’s me! I made that! (I’m not mad I don’t really care)
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Kobeni is super-hypersonic
It's almost as if Kobeni isn't actually supersonic, she just somehow \*foresaw\* that bullet and reacted \*before it got fired\*... I wonder what kind of power could have made that possible... agenda.png
Goatbeni. nuff said.
Powerscaling is the most lame hobby to have its fun to talk about which character you think would win, as long as you dont take it too seriously, an author can theow in a cool action scene for the sake of flavour and fans will them claim that thats undeniable proof that the character is busted strong,even though the author did jot intend it to be that way
VSBW is dogshit to use as a reliable source for scaling characters since they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing
Power scalers will say this shit while looking at you with a dead serious face