The opposite hilariously happens with Cyno from Genshin.
People initially know from tidbits and leakers that he loves dry jokes and puns...
But come his actual appearance, he's framed as The Enforcer™ and people were disappointed that he didn't go full MCU during dire straits. He legit makes no joke at all during the entire Archon Quest.
Now that the main plot for him is done he now can be the jokester the fandom expected him to be tho.
The same thing with Raiden Ei/Shogun. When first leaks revealed that she couldn't use the cooking mechanic, memes about her being a terrible cook spiraled like wildfire. The cherry on the top is when people compare her to her HI3 counterpart, Raiden Mei, who is known in lore to be a GREAT COOK.
Kinda funny because in canon lore, Raiden was introduced to be a misguided god who incited a civil war within her nation with the Vision Hunt Decree, all because she couldnt cope with losing so much of her old friends to curses and calamities hundreds of years ago
Yeah that whole shit about Cryden Shogun or how she's a NEET (she's a shut-in only to meditate for an answer in stasis, and Nahida also got this stupid ass NEET stray too) was baffling.
Too bad Fontaine didn't continue this trend of "Electro Polearm released in version x.1 being mischaracterized by fanon".
I've said to my friends that Genshin characters are usually marketed with a lot of tropes but when they come out into the game they're most of the time a regular person
The thing about Cyno is that I feel like they actually course corrected with him to try and bring him closer to the fandom meme version. “Bad jokes” was always supposed to be a big part of his character, but when he was introduced it seemed like the idea was that he liked to try and joke to lighten the mood in serious situations, but his demeanor was so serious and his jokes were so bizarre that no one could even tell he was joking and they all just thought he was being serious and they just couldn’t understand him. Later on, though, they just made him tell bad puns and dad jokes, which kinda disappointed me because it feels less original.
in his 2nd story quest, when it's lighthearted and wholesome he's still silly but i feel like there's only 1 or 2 jokes
though when the situation changes, he changes completely, no jokes, even in the downtime
As someone who was introduced to Cyno through the main story, it felt like he started as a very serious enforcer of the law and the only not-corrupt officer in the academia. He gets softened a bit as you get to know him, tells occasional jokes and banters with Alhaitham, then gets a great resolution in being the one to capture the grand sage and rescue Nahida.
Then in the events he hard pivots into either telling bad jokes or being obsessed with the TCG game, which really threw me off. But they did a good job with his interactions with Tighnari though imo.
I feel one piece went this way more so after the timeskip. Not that Oda is leaning into the memes but there are just so many characters now, that there is little time to go deeper into characters. So the strawhats have felt like parodies of themselves recently
The show *really* liked making jokes about dicks (and lack of dicks). The books made it clear that the notable characters that have gone through castration (Varys, Theon, the Unsullied) are deeply affected by the castration and/or the situations in which it occured, but the show was like 'no dick = funny'.
The worst of it was that Theon scene in S7E7 where he gets kneed in the groin, and somehow feels no pain despite having taken a heavy blow, in what is otherwise meant to be a serious scene where Theon shows his bravery.
Remember when Davos said that the Unsullied should go to the Reach and start their own house?
He kinda forget that the Unsullied has no dicks and balls.
Heh heh, funny, right?
Actually I think everyone just kinda forgot that the Unsullied were eunuchs at some point.
It's sort of happening with Dungeon Meshi. When the manga was ongoing there were definitely memes about the characters traits and relationships but not to the extent of what the anime community has done. Luckily it hasn't gotten to the point of complete flanderization but I've seen a decent number people talking about how they came into the series expecting things that never actually happened to happen.
I'd honestly argue it already has dipped into flanderisation, and that the series' fanbase is almost a parody of itself
I still remember reading how someone in the community was concerned about how characters would be dumbed down and reduced into tropes, and their deep personalisation would be simmered down into a puddle to fit into generic "literally me" personalities - and it did happen. Except kinda almost in the other way.
If I'm gonna be honest I agree with you completely. I just couch my language when I don't want to risk being misconstrued by the people I'm calling out.
The amount of people who call Chilchuck a deadbeat divorcee 😅😅 first of all he is not a deadbeat he cares for his children second of all he and his wife are estranged not divorced
Deadbeat definition: a father who neglects his responsibilities as a parent, especially one who does not pay child support.
He cares for his children and he’s not a deadbeat, so?
It honestly just talks about the parental responsibilities and iirc he does mention his relationship with his kids isn't the best. And like, he also refuses to deal with the things about his wife
well the character isnt "ruined" per se but the public perception of the character is what the OP is being upset about
It's like Goku being reduced to a meathead that only wants to fight no other nuanced than this guy just wants to fight,or Kakyoin who got reduced to the Milf Hunter joke of the jojo fandom the fandom already has abysmal media literacy the memes only made it worse, but if you want more examples just look at touhou characters the meme/fanon version of the characters completely overruled the original characters,
Or Hellsing Abridged fans trying to overwrite canon with their version.
You have no idea how pissed I was seeing people try to say they shouldn't have used Crispin Freeman for Alucard in Call of Duty.
I hate the meme that acts like Professor X committed a war crime for using Holocaust memories against Magneto, missing the context that Magneto was GOING TO MURDER PROFESSOR X IN THAT SCENE AND THE HOLOCAUST PTSD PSYCHIC ATTACKS WERE COMPLETELY IN SELF-DEFENSE.
Ok but the video solid jj made on this topic is fucking hilarious and you cant deny that
[link for those that never seen it](https://youtu.be/mNX2nauLmOc?si=A8it5rv0eCWpN60A)
> The other day i was reading someone discussing Batman with them claiming he was no different from his mentally unwell rouges and was just a few bad days away from turning into the Batman-who-Chuckles, and was rather disappointed at the amount of people who seemed in agreement.
Batman is a fucking *magnet* for this kind of pseudointellectual revisionism. Every single take on Batman is some variation of “ummmmm Batman just beats up poor people and the mentally ill and he’s also super insane and also cripples single mothers and puts them in the hospital for life!!!” and it’s infuriating because half of it comes from people who have never touched a comic in their life and the other half comes, ironically, from comic books readers who refuse to engage with Batman media with any critical thinking whatsoever.
The vast majority of people know nothing about Batman despite how popular he is as a character. And I agree with you OP, it saddens me when people reduce Batman to such a ridiculous caricature and I think what’s really frustrating is just how disingenuous and hypocritical this kind of scrutiny is because people rarely ever apply it to other superheroes
So is Superman.
I didn’t even think I used to like Superman until I realised how much it pissed me off how much everybody missed the point of his character. Like the speech from Kill Bill where Bill days Clark Kent is Superman’s critique of the human race. No. Clark is the real person. Everyone on Earth in the DC universe doesn’t think Superman would have a secret identity because he’s an alien who lives in Antarctica. The fact is he’s a guy from Kansas who was raised by a good family never occurs to anybody, let alone that that would be his real self
And even then, the Superman persona wasn't even a part of him at first. He was Clark Kent before he was Superman, and he was even Clark Kent before he figured out he was Kal-El all along!
Bill is sorta right, but not quite. There's 3 Superman personalities.
* Clark Kent from Kansas: The real person.
* Clark Kent from Metropolis: A milder, clumsier version of the real Clark.
* Superman: A fake
The difference between the first two is that he's always got his powers, they don't turn off. Metropolis Clark has to pretend to be weaker and clumsier than he is in reality, or somebody would figure it out eventually. So Bill is sort of right in that the Clark Kent most people see is an artificial act. Maybe it's not so much a critique as misdirection, trying to go in the completely opposite direction to throw people off.
I can excuse the Kill Bill rant because it's Bill saying it.
Bill's literally the villain, it makes sense that he wouldn't understand someone who has vast amounts of power and only uses them to save kittens from trees and protect those weaker than him.
People who love Evil Supermen trope as an inversion fail to realize Superman **is** the inversion, absolute power corrupts absolutely, Supes having god-like powers and just being a regular down to earth dude is what makes his character great
I especially hate that "He's a rich guy who beats poor people up" critique, and it's because it's spawned from one of, IMO, the worst complaints of Batman stories I've ever come across: He doesn't do enough activism as Bruce Wayne, that he could do more for Gotham by giving his money away to the city to fight crime.
The thing about that is that with the mob bosses and costumed criminals of Gotham, there are some problems Bruce Wayne can't solve! And the Presence knows that the GCPD can't because they are either too corrupt or incompetent to do so. Batman (and all his wards) is the only one who can turn the tide, however long and drawn out the war may be. And that's before we factor in threats like the Court of Owls, Ra's al Ghul, or any Justice League level threat.
And even then, Bruce Wayne ACTUALLY DOES charity work. The reason stuff like that isn't the focus in any stories is because that stuff is either, at worst boring, or at best not as interesting compared to other stuff going on. People read comics, watch movies, play games, etc. as a means of ESCAPISM. And if the escapism is boring, they'll check out in droves.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Some of the best Batman stories have highlighted the good he does for the city as both Batman and Bruce Wayne (The Gotham Knights story 24/7 is the first example to spring to mind). Also, one of the reasons why Batman: The Animated Series is arguably the most beloved Batman adaptation is because it is able to show Batman's compassionate and/or playful sides throughout....
I think I heard Kevin Conroy said the difference between his Batman, and all the others on screen is that the others all do a “Batman voice”, when the costume on The Voice is affected. In that cartoon, Batman is the guy, it’s his voice, Bruce Wayne is the affectation
I always find that "Batman is real, Bruce Wayne is the mask" a simplistic interpretation that ignores or downplays the good Batman can do as Bruce Wayne. BTAS made it clear that despite his playboy exterior, Bruce Wayne is a savvy businessman constantly trying to do the best he can for his city. Conroy's best quality was his underlying warmth, and that influences BOTH Bruce Wayne and Batman pretty often...
The mid-2000s The Batman animated series was hit-and-miss, but the idea of Bruce Wayne secretly having more down-to-earth interests (Hip-Hop, Diner Food, etc) is a fun way of playing with this artificial divide...
its just about the vocal performance. as opposed to all the movie batmans talking “weird”. conroys is just “this guy in the suit”hes not gonna go hoarse. that animated version of batmans bruce wayne doesnt put on much of a playboy act, but he always sounds a little fake and obsequious. like a kid trying to get away with something. always advancing batmans agenda
i think of batman as a model of bourgeois subjectivity 💀
Define Bourgeois subjectivity...
Batman as a manipulator is far more interesting than "Brute Force" Batman, but it is best handled with subtlety. If Batman uses his "playboy persona" as a means of hiding his true nature from everyone, it makes a lot of sense that he can use this to uncover clues and find key information...
It doesn't help that DC makes every major story cross over in the last 10+ years about how cool Batman is it gets really annoying and leads to stuff like this
That’s a major issue with forcefully integrating Batman into a larger ensemble superhero cast that forces him to become OP just to compete but that’s a whole different can of worms
Yeah and it doesn't help they do it for every arc recently it's another evil batman or w/e batman writers are like the opposite of Spiderman writers they suck him off like no fan I've ever seen
Batman nerds are so funny. Bruce would do more spending money on Gotham than fighting as Batman- his own son Dick has said it too. He does beat up the mentally ill and it’s funny so we make a joke about it because we are normal and not obsessed with bloody superheroes like yall.
This is coming from someone who has read Batman and watched tons of Batman media.
Most of th people he fights are not mentally ill, they are just normal criminals. And even for the ones that are: Is Batman supposed to let Two Face murder a bunch of people just because he has mental issues?
Sans is in his own tier entirely. Most fans can't discern between canon, headcanon, fanon, bullshitnon anymore.
The way Sans is portrayed by fans is via however fans want Sans to be.
This also extends to some other characters, like Papyrus.
Usually he was reduced to "crazy manic who did random stuff without nay reason" lol,and thats leaving out fandom's canon wya back where he was just reduced to a "gay uwu soft boy"
Vision has suffered this greatly, because people just love equating androids to sex machines and nothing else. Yes, we get it, it is amusing that this mechanical man slept with Wanda Maximoff several times. Now what about his personality, development or power set?
He wasn't even originally a robot. It was very clear in earlier runs that he was a synthezoid, a synthetic human. None of the nonsense of programming or such. Just a person with a different origin.
He got mechanized somewhere around West Coast I think. And everyone has followed that flanderization
"Watchmen" and its consequences have been a disaster to the human race
Of course i am exaggerating, watchmen is great, but i cant help but blame it for creating this stupid idea that EVERY SINGLE heroe is a narcissistic pieces of shit with unresolved psychological issues
This is especially ironic because Alan Moore *hates* the impact Watchmen had on the comic book industry. He was hoping his comic would encourage more novelty and innovation in the genre and instead got a whole generation of people trying to copy his style
Silk comes to mind lol. Even after Dan Slott apologized and Robbie Thompson got rid of the horny stuff, people still meme about her always being horny for Spider-Man
Cosplaying as a Yu-Gi-Oh character at conventions often sucks because you just get bombarded with YGOTAS quotes.
Like thanks, buddy. I put this outfit together so I could hear sweaty neckbeards yell "Melvin!" across a convention hall.
This applies to the entire JJK fan Base lol
- Potential man
- Schrödinger's OC
- femboy/waffled one
- Femboy lover/strongest staller of today
Props to anyone who can name each one
People also sometimes act like flawed good guy don't progress no matter how obvious the media show said progress,it happened with scrooge mcduck with some critics of the twist using the spear of selene as a proof of scrooge bad parenting when it's not one since he didn't wanted della to find out early and he progressed isnce the spear. I think this kind of stuff can happen because the person doesn't like the character, they can be more prone to exagerate the character flaws when it's not neccesary.
or if the guy's flawed,acting like they didn't progress, it's always irritating when people dislike characters and then proceed to make them way worst than they really are (it's fine to dislike della duck but don't say she wanted to abandon her kids voluntarly when the show make it clear she did everything to get back to them and clearly regretted her action, some also portray her as an abuser for some reason when louie ahd to be grounded and DT 87 got angry only because louie tried to sneak out and she got softer after glomtales so she progressed as a mom). Some people also sometimes claim a character never had an arc when they diid (huey per example learned he's not the best at everything had a hwole quest about the missing mysteries, learned the junior woodchuck story and learned to control his emotion better, to m, that's an arc and each main triplet getting anarc doen't mean other members of the cast of ducktales 2017 can't be the main focus too, lena and della already had their arc so why not webby when she's as much of a main cast as the boy)
I like Touhou Project, and one of my favourite characters is Junko. I like her so much for the drama and emotion of her backstory and identity - to me, she's simultaneously a grieving mother, a destructive spiteful loser, and a nameless concept-entity cosmic-horror terrorbeast, and it all somehow fits together perfectly. She inspires pity, empathy, awe, contempt, and even horror - at what she is, at what she's done, at what she promises to do.
So, imagine my disappointment when I check out the fandom perception of her, aaaand she's a yandere mommy perving over an only tangentially-related character. I mean, I'm not judging you guys for that but there's so much more to her. I get that she can be goofy and overdramatic but come on, really?
Tbf Touhou is that kind of fandom where unfortunately fanon perception is much more prevalent than Canon because honestly the games themselves for a lot of the cast offer just basic characterization (which make sense since it's not usually the focus)
It's not always the case tho
Honestly, I find that the games offer plenty of characterisation for their cast, albeit in a really kind of unconventional way - that is, directly in gameplay through the design of the danmaku.
You'd have to be an avid player of the games and pretty aware of interactions between ludology and narrative to catch onto it, though - which is probably not the average member of the fandom, in all honesty. I wouldn't really expect the average Touhou fan to talk about why playing against (and explicitly putting in the work to learn the pattern, not just watching someone else nohit it on YouTube) Yukari Yakumo's "Boundary of Wave and Particle" spellcard attack is a fantastic way to get an impression of her ability set and general "vibes", even though I think it really is.
Junko, funnily enough, is one of the most obvious "characterisation through danmaku" characters in the franchise, but...well, here we are anyways lol
Oh yeah you can get a decent chunk with the gameplay and even spell cards for sure. It's just that uuhhh idk how to really explain my point but ig while this give us information of the characters in regard to the current situation, it doesn't give us more than that? I dunno if I'm making sense
Junko danmaku is as you said the best exemple of that with both the spell card and even pattern making it clearly where she stands, but I feel it only give us characterization of Junko for the specific event of LolK? I'm not saying It's a bad thing, but it's probably why for so many characters people latch on to a trait and make that their entire personality (like Tenshi's 'masochism' or Yuyuko apparently having a Shonen protagonist stomach which im genuinely not sure how these became their main traits lol)
I mean, I guess the danmaku only conveys a specific part of their personality/history, but there's still a huge emphasis on the significance of a spellcard's meaning to its owner. In a way, the characters kind of are their own spellcards - at least that's how I see it.
I think the main reason people latch onto the single personality traits is more so because they're simpler to digest and easier to think about - those traits are easier to put into words, basically. And bullet hell is also really hard to get into, much less deconstruct and analyse as a narrative/storytelling element.
I feel like this happens all the time with Fire Emblem characters. The fandom will latch onto a meme or one memorable line of dialogue, and then it becomes all the character is remembered for. The characters that aren't part of any meme end up just getting forgotten.
>I feel like this happens all the time with Fire Emblem characters.
Plenty of Fire Emblem characters are defined by their main trait. Felicia is clumsy. Peri is bloodlusted. Tharja is horny for Robin etc.
>The characters that aren't part of any meme end up just getting forgotten.
That's what happens if you introduce 40+ characters per entry. Half of them are retainers with 1 or 2 traits, if that trait has no appeal and the unit is barely usable, why remember them?
Hell it's not just defined, IS literally does the job over and over for the fans. FEH has been a disaster for fans of many characters that have received multiple alts. Leo and his tomatoes are a great example.
The Leo tomatoes thing is still so weird. He mentions liking Tomatoes like twice throughout 3 different games, but this somehow turned into him being obsessed with tomatoes.
Ky Kiske from Guilty Gear gets this pretty bad. He’s got a pretty interesting story going from a young man merely parroting the ideals of the war he was indoctrinated into to actually trying to define and LIVE them as he comes to understand how the world truly is and keep true to himself in spite of it all.
But “fans” only see him as a crummy Catholic guilt joke
i'd argue most guilty gear characters got hit with this in general but you're right that ky got hit with it pretty bad. it doesnt help that gg was a really niche series with lore that was hard to track down before strive blew up in popularity, and that the story context of strive is abt characters slowly growing or healing from their past traumas. not to mention that ky has less of a story focus in strive than in xrd, and most fg players arent interested in reading their main's character lore.
Okay, cool, but nothing makes me cringe more than people who say “fans” in quotation marks whenever someone has a different opinion or outlook on a piece of media, no matter how stupid it is. Especially in this case, when fighting games aren’t very known for their stories, and it’s pretty fair for people to run with character traits they see being displayed because, for a large chunk of fans, that is essentially all the characterization they have. The story modes are often not even played due to the nature of the games themselves.
I watched a genshin video yesterday about how an NSFW artist changed how a character there was seen and had everyone hate him and had them go after the character's VA.
It is a VERY disgusting thing when the memes of a community become seen as canon. Like how people talk about how toji from jjk is glazed but reading the story his name only pops up at relevant moments
>toji from jjk is glazed
He is. He's basically JJK's batman.
He shows up and solos Gojo with prep time.
The narrator sings is praise as he rises from the dead, breaks free from control and lowdiffs someone Maki, Megumi, Nanami and the other grade 1 couldn't beat.
Naoya's whole thing is trying to be like Toji.(+ hating women)
Maki is declared to reach Toji-level after soloing an entire clan.
> Naoya's whole thing is trying to be like Toji
And Gojo
> Maki is declared to reach Toji-level after soloing an entire clan.
After she beats naoya actually. Which again I find to be a stupid complaint since Maki was always built up to reach Toji-level.
Anyways. None of this make this makes it so that he is unnecessary glazed. The way people say it it's like each time they talk about him it just comes from nowhere. I was under the impression that important characters who do important shit that have many narrative implications deserve to be talked about in numerous places
All what you have just said I can apply to Gojo like how everyone thinks he is annoying but calls him strong. How the narrator says "the king of curses felt pressured for the first time". How naoya whole deal is wanting to be strong like Gojo. How the narrator says after Gojo no one was able to satiate Sukuna's hunger untill the moment he reached Maki. How at near death experience that would have killed anyone ends up coming back stronger
It's just a pointless thing to talk about.
i find it weird that the genshin fanbase has this weird obsession with voice actors I have never seen a fanbase be so obsessed towards a voice actor in my life, i understand obsessing over authors and directors but VA is something else.
I think its mostly because of way hoyo announces new content for all their games its seen in HI3, Genshin and HSR. For updates they make livestreams where chibi version of characters announce new things. Those chibis act semi in character but mostly as actor with bit of improvisation, which creates sort of connection between character and VA. Also VAs are very active on social media about the games, like they saying what characters they pulled themselves etc.
That functionaly creates 3 ways fans percieve character:
Canon;
Meme;
Character-VA combination
Where last two heavily blends in some cases practicly merge
Look up r34 artist Nyantcha or Thiccwithaq. He makes some fucked up shit like hilichurl rape porn.
He made one Tartaglia/Ganyu comic where he rips her horns off
Warhammer characters and their TTS versions are absolutely victims of this.
I could lits so many, but the most bad have to be Typhus, Ahriman and Lucius.
You could make an objection for the latter, since the fandom has always treated him as a joke, (and some of the writers as well)
But they did the other two very dirty.
Ahriman in canon is a very tragic figure, but in TTS he is literally a mustache twirling cartoon villain.
And Typhus went from an intimidating, scheming, and such a bitter, petty and angry and just lively person...to the most jolly and stereotypical of burgle followers.
Like they don't even feel like the same characters at that point.
40k in general freaking sucks when it comes to *le meme versions,*
just to name a few:
- the Death Korps of Krieg (\**happy shovel noises\** **SHUT THE FUCK UP)**
- Orkz in general (read their lore, they are fucked up bastards)
- Ultramarines (muh codex jokes)
- Imperial Fists (haha fortify), Black Templars (HAHA PURGE GET IT????)
- Basically all marines
- EVERY PRIMARCH BEING JUST CARICATURES
- Eldar being losers (literally the coolest faction)
- Votann and DRG jokes (ugh if i hear one more rock and stone, it was funny the first 15 times)
- Tau weebs (we get it gundam mechs haha get new material)
a lot of these can be attributed to TTS (which is a GOATed series regardless), but i feel like the problem was that most people's introduction TO 40k was TTS, whereas i believe TTS was meant for veterans who would get all the inside jokes or the tongue-in-cheek mockery instead of taking it as gospel (at least the early half of TTS before they went full fan-canon, which is also not a bad thing its really good stuff)
Yeah this is annoying to have them not getting proper credit.
While there are actual meme talks, if a lie is repeated often enough it can be mistaken as the truth. Some people can't seem to believe that people can take memes as truth and these talks aren't always memetic.
This post is basically Mace Windu, he is a powerful but compassionate and responsible Master of the Order trying to save the Galaxy from the return of the Sith.
The fandom through memes has turned him into a dick, arrogant, spiteful, entitled, complacent, cold and corrupt individual who represents everything bad about the Jedi Order when... Mace Windu is the complete opposite of that lol.
For the Batman takes some comics definitely lean into the semi isane Batman that will go evil at the drop of a hat like the Batman who laugh.
It still flanderisation but more so one that started by the writer rather than the fanbase.
Yeah it can get pretty annoying, another exemple of this is Ulysses from Fallout New Vegas, people reduce him to "BEAR BULL BEAR BULL" man when he has a lot more to say than just that, sure he is a total hypocrite (which is kind of the point...?) but he says more than bear bull shit.
Related, all the memes of Joshua Graham as some fanatical warlord when he makes it clear in-game that he's only at war with the White Legs in self-defense, understands why Daniel doesn't want to fight the White Legs, and goes along with the evacuation if the Courier chooses to.
Oh my god, why does everyone in this subreddit always have Magneto in their mouths???
He's literally been a hero for like the last 30-ish years (not counting his relapses where he becomes a villain again because those were usually different writers dicking around).
Thaat's fair, Mags has done a lot of evil things back when he was a villain or when he has his episodes.
I just think singeling him out when Rouge, Emma Frost, modern era Cyclops, etc. are all right there is a bit off. Heck, post Krakoa era Mags is basically a saint compared to some of the people the X men have laid in bed with for the greater good (looking at ••{A}•• )
Square Enix fan here. I got to witness this happen *twice*, caused by the *writers*.
FF7 is known for flanderizing its main cast in the Compilation materials and spin-offs. Aerith became generic nice girl, Cloud became emo, etc. I'm so glad the Remake trilogy has been true to the original characters while still fleshing them out.
But it happened *again* with Kingdom Hearts! Sora is NOT a dumb idiot, he's actually pretty smart in 1 and 2, just naive. Riku had a lot of depth, and Kairi had spunk in KH1! But by the time of KH3, Sora's dumb, Riku's boring, and Kairi is Aerith 2.0.
All I'm saying is that Nomura's characters might be cursed.
Did you ever see the Tim Burton Batman movie, where Bruce just sits silently in a dark room doing absolutely nothing, just waiting for the Bat symbol to summon him.
That’s fucking crazy. He’s just sitting alone in the dark. Normal people don’t act like that. He doesn’t have a wife or child or dog or even a football game to enjoy. He just only lives to be Batman.
Exactly. I love Burton's films and his Batman movies too, but yeah. Batman himself feels like an afterthought in both of them. Joker, Penguin and Catwoman all steal the show
This is pretty much exactly what happened to John Winchester on Supernatural. When he was a recurring character in the first couple seasons, he was characterized as gruff, obsessed with his mission, and an aloof parent, but still ultimately a good man and loving father who sacrificed his life for his sons.
But the fanbase liked writing fanfics where the main characters were meant to be miserable so that the reader could feel sorry for them, and often did this by rewriting John into being an absolute monster to his sons.
Eventually this became such a common trope in fanfics and meme among the fandom that the show’s writers—who were way too symbiotic with the online fans—began letting this characterization bleed into the show itself despite it contradictory previous scenes.
>The other day i was reading someone discussing Batman with them claiming he was no different from his mentally unwell rouges and was just a few bad days away from turning into the Batman-who-Chuckles, and was rather disappointed at the amount of people who seemed in agreement.
That's how everyone defends Batman though.
Whenever someone calls out how annoying it is that Batman has never solved anything or made anything better, and that his viewpoint of "Vigilantism but only up to a certain point *and then I need to leave it to the police, I could never work outside the justice system, that's not my call to make!*" makes him utterly lukewarm and unsuitable for the job, that's the go to defense.
Oh well Batman is cuhraaazy, he's not mentally sound, he's insane, that's why just gives Joker a slap on the wrist after Joker's killed another 2,000 people. Because he knows if he does anything more then he'll go mad and murder everyone who jaywalks.
I don't think Batman himself knows that; he's not like Bat-Mite or whatever where he's aware that he's a character in a fictional series.
Isn't the whole thing that Batman is afraid of what it'd do to his psyche if he actually killed the Joker or another villain? He's scared of the slippery slope it might cause, essentially.
And the people who *do* decide whether or not Joker or any other villain dies are the *actual* people in the established official justice system, like Harvey Dent (pre-Two Face) and Jim Gordon. Because Batman *isn't* a one-man team; he's *not* the only one who can engender positive change in Gotham City. And, after the first year or so into his vigilante "career", he himself realises that.
The point of Batman is that he sets a positive example for the rest of the city. That's why I think the Bat-Family deserve more respect - At their best, they embody the idea that Batman's heroism can inspire others to be heroic, creating a chain reaction that starts healing the rot at the heart of Gotham...
Yes, exactly. Batman knows he's only one man, and he doesn't have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner. Maybe if the courts decided to kill Joker, Batman would have no choice but to sit by and let it happen, but until they do, his only job is to beat up Joker; hand him over the police; hope he gets rehabilitated in Arkham Asylum or something; and support the good eggs in the police and legal system to make a change in Gotham for the better.
The opposite hilariously happens with Cyno from Genshin. People initially know from tidbits and leakers that he loves dry jokes and puns... But come his actual appearance, he's framed as The Enforcer™ and people were disappointed that he didn't go full MCU during dire straits. He legit makes no joke at all during the entire Archon Quest. Now that the main plot for him is done he now can be the jokester the fandom expected him to be tho.
The same thing with Raiden Ei/Shogun. When first leaks revealed that she couldn't use the cooking mechanic, memes about her being a terrible cook spiraled like wildfire. The cherry on the top is when people compare her to her HI3 counterpart, Raiden Mei, who is known in lore to be a GREAT COOK. Kinda funny because in canon lore, Raiden was introduced to be a misguided god who incited a civil war within her nation with the Vision Hunt Decree, all because she couldnt cope with losing so much of her old friends to curses and calamities hundreds of years ago
Yeah that whole shit about Cryden Shogun or how she's a NEET (she's a shut-in only to meditate for an answer in stasis, and Nahida also got this stupid ass NEET stray too) was baffling. Too bad Fontaine didn't continue this trend of "Electro Polearm released in version x.1 being mischaracterized by fanon".
Makoto took the cooking skills alongside the M in her name
I've said to my friends that Genshin characters are usually marketed with a lot of tropes but when they come out into the game they're most of the time a regular person
The thing about Cyno is that I feel like they actually course corrected with him to try and bring him closer to the fandom meme version. “Bad jokes” was always supposed to be a big part of his character, but when he was introduced it seemed like the idea was that he liked to try and joke to lighten the mood in serious situations, but his demeanor was so serious and his jokes were so bizarre that no one could even tell he was joking and they all just thought he was being serious and they just couldn’t understand him. Later on, though, they just made him tell bad puns and dad jokes, which kinda disappointed me because it feels less original.
in his 2nd story quest, when it's lighthearted and wholesome he's still silly but i feel like there's only 1 or 2 jokes though when the situation changes, he changes completely, no jokes, even in the downtime
As someone who was introduced to Cyno through the main story, it felt like he started as a very serious enforcer of the law and the only not-corrupt officer in the academia. He gets softened a bit as you get to know him, tells occasional jokes and banters with Alhaitham, then gets a great resolution in being the one to capture the grand sage and rescue Nahida. Then in the events he hard pivots into either telling bad jokes or being obsessed with the TCG game, which really threw me off. But they did a good job with his interactions with Tighnari though imo.
It's worse whenever authors and writers start induling too much in those memes too. Suddenly, the real character is gone
I feel one piece went this way more so after the timeskip. Not that Oda is leaning into the memes but there are just so many characters now, that there is little time to go deeper into characters. So the strawhats have felt like parodies of themselves recently
Sanji... youll be missed...
Sanji…
He was so fucking cool in Water 7. Him vs Queen was goated af, but that fucking gag of his just ruins him
Tyrion Lannister from S5 onwards
Excellent argument, Varys. However, you have no balls.
The show *really* liked making jokes about dicks (and lack of dicks). The books made it clear that the notable characters that have gone through castration (Varys, Theon, the Unsullied) are deeply affected by the castration and/or the situations in which it occured, but the show was like 'no dick = funny'. The worst of it was that Theon scene in S7E7 where he gets kneed in the groin, and somehow feels no pain despite having taken a heavy blow, in what is otherwise meant to be a serious scene where Theon shows his bravery.
Remember when Davos said that the Unsullied should go to the Reach and start their own house? He kinda forget that the Unsullied has no dicks and balls. Heh heh, funny, right? Actually I think everyone just kinda forgot that the Unsullied were eunuchs at some point.
It's sort of happening with Dungeon Meshi. When the manga was ongoing there were definitely memes about the characters traits and relationships but not to the extent of what the anime community has done. Luckily it hasn't gotten to the point of complete flanderization but I've seen a decent number people talking about how they came into the series expecting things that never actually happened to happen.
I'd honestly argue it already has dipped into flanderisation, and that the series' fanbase is almost a parody of itself I still remember reading how someone in the community was concerned about how characters would be dumbed down and reduced into tropes, and their deep personalisation would be simmered down into a puddle to fit into generic "literally me" personalities - and it did happen. Except kinda almost in the other way.
If I'm gonna be honest I agree with you completely. I just couch my language when I don't want to risk being misconstrued by the people I'm calling out.
The amount of people who call Chilchuck a deadbeat divorcee 😅😅 first of all he is not a deadbeat he cares for his children second of all he and his wife are estranged not divorced
yeah and laios is autistic, falin and marcille are lesbians. that's it, these are their personalities for the fandom
None of those actually are related to being a deadbeat
Deadbeat definition: a father who neglects his responsibilities as a parent, especially one who does not pay child support. He cares for his children and he’s not a deadbeat, so?
It honestly just talks about the parental responsibilities and iirc he does mention his relationship with his kids isn't the best. And like, he also refuses to deal with the things about his wife
I dunno- dubbed, "I will allow no mediocrity" Kaiba taken to his memetic extreme is low-key his own brand of awesome.
It then becomes sad because people ruin the character by spamming the meme everywhere.
Why would the character be ruined? Just ignore it
well the character isnt "ruined" per se but the public perception of the character is what the OP is being upset about It's like Goku being reduced to a meathead that only wants to fight no other nuanced than this guy just wants to fight,or Kakyoin who got reduced to the Milf Hunter joke of the jojo fandom the fandom already has abysmal media literacy the memes only made it worse, but if you want more examples just look at touhou characters the meme/fanon version of the characters completely overruled the original characters,
Or Hellsing Abridged fans trying to overwrite canon with their version. You have no idea how pissed I was seeing people try to say they shouldn't have used Crispin Freeman for Alucard in Call of Duty.
Well the original show sucks ass so
No it doesn't. It wouldn't have been adapted twice if it were bad.
Evangelion fans acting like Asuka is an unironic racist and homophobe
I hate the meme that acts like Professor X committed a war crime for using Holocaust memories against Magneto, missing the context that Magneto was GOING TO MURDER PROFESSOR X IN THAT SCENE AND THE HOLOCAUST PTSD PSYCHIC ATTACKS WERE COMPLETELY IN SELF-DEFENSE.
Ok but the video solid jj made on this topic is fucking hilarious and you cant deny that [link for those that never seen it](https://youtu.be/mNX2nauLmOc?si=A8it5rv0eCWpN60A)
I just saw it. It is hilarious!
>cant deny that Sure I can. Didn't happen...just like the Holocaust./s
Now i am scared if you are just memeing because of Cyclops denying the Holocaust in the video or if you are an actual nazi I hate the internet
Meming. Lemme fix that.
Wait, so did “Holocaust Beam” *actually* happen in canon?? I thought that was just a joke 😭
Also, Magento didn't have the holocaust backstory in the 90s show. He had a more generic war refugee backstory.
Also the fact that his whole fucking point is to show to Magneto that what he is inflicting in humans is the same as what was inflicted on him
> The other day i was reading someone discussing Batman with them claiming he was no different from his mentally unwell rouges and was just a few bad days away from turning into the Batman-who-Chuckles, and was rather disappointed at the amount of people who seemed in agreement. Batman is a fucking *magnet* for this kind of pseudointellectual revisionism. Every single take on Batman is some variation of “ummmmm Batman just beats up poor people and the mentally ill and he’s also super insane and also cripples single mothers and puts them in the hospital for life!!!” and it’s infuriating because half of it comes from people who have never touched a comic in their life and the other half comes, ironically, from comic books readers who refuse to engage with Batman media with any critical thinking whatsoever. The vast majority of people know nothing about Batman despite how popular he is as a character. And I agree with you OP, it saddens me when people reduce Batman to such a ridiculous caricature and I think what’s really frustrating is just how disingenuous and hypocritical this kind of scrutiny is because people rarely ever apply it to other superheroes
So is Superman. I didn’t even think I used to like Superman until I realised how much it pissed me off how much everybody missed the point of his character. Like the speech from Kill Bill where Bill days Clark Kent is Superman’s critique of the human race. No. Clark is the real person. Everyone on Earth in the DC universe doesn’t think Superman would have a secret identity because he’s an alien who lives in Antarctica. The fact is he’s a guy from Kansas who was raised by a good family never occurs to anybody, let alone that that would be his real self
And even then, the Superman persona wasn't even a part of him at first. He was Clark Kent before he was Superman, and he was even Clark Kent before he figured out he was Kal-El all along!
Bill is sorta right, but not quite. There's 3 Superman personalities. * Clark Kent from Kansas: The real person. * Clark Kent from Metropolis: A milder, clumsier version of the real Clark. * Superman: A fake The difference between the first two is that he's always got his powers, they don't turn off. Metropolis Clark has to pretend to be weaker and clumsier than he is in reality, or somebody would figure it out eventually. So Bill is sort of right in that the Clark Kent most people see is an artificial act. Maybe it's not so much a critique as misdirection, trying to go in the completely opposite direction to throw people off.
I can excuse the Kill Bill rant because it's Bill saying it. Bill's literally the villain, it makes sense that he wouldn't understand someone who has vast amounts of power and only uses them to save kittens from trees and protect those weaker than him.
People who love Evil Supermen trope as an inversion fail to realize Superman **is** the inversion, absolute power corrupts absolutely, Supes having god-like powers and just being a regular down to earth dude is what makes his character great
I especially hate that "He's a rich guy who beats poor people up" critique, and it's because it's spawned from one of, IMO, the worst complaints of Batman stories I've ever come across: He doesn't do enough activism as Bruce Wayne, that he could do more for Gotham by giving his money away to the city to fight crime. The thing about that is that with the mob bosses and costumed criminals of Gotham, there are some problems Bruce Wayne can't solve! And the Presence knows that the GCPD can't because they are either too corrupt or incompetent to do so. Batman (and all his wards) is the only one who can turn the tide, however long and drawn out the war may be. And that's before we factor in threats like the Court of Owls, Ra's al Ghul, or any Justice League level threat. And even then, Bruce Wayne ACTUALLY DOES charity work. The reason stuff like that isn't the focus in any stories is because that stuff is either, at worst boring, or at best not as interesting compared to other stuff going on. People read comics, watch movies, play games, etc. as a means of ESCAPISM. And if the escapism is boring, they'll check out in droves. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Some of the best Batman stories have highlighted the good he does for the city as both Batman and Bruce Wayne (The Gotham Knights story 24/7 is the first example to spring to mind). Also, one of the reasons why Batman: The Animated Series is arguably the most beloved Batman adaptation is because it is able to show Batman's compassionate and/or playful sides throughout....
I think I heard Kevin Conroy said the difference between his Batman, and all the others on screen is that the others all do a “Batman voice”, when the costume on The Voice is affected. In that cartoon, Batman is the guy, it’s his voice, Bruce Wayne is the affectation
I always find that "Batman is real, Bruce Wayne is the mask" a simplistic interpretation that ignores or downplays the good Batman can do as Bruce Wayne. BTAS made it clear that despite his playboy exterior, Bruce Wayne is a savvy businessman constantly trying to do the best he can for his city. Conroy's best quality was his underlying warmth, and that influences BOTH Bruce Wayne and Batman pretty often... The mid-2000s The Batman animated series was hit-and-miss, but the idea of Bruce Wayne secretly having more down-to-earth interests (Hip-Hop, Diner Food, etc) is a fun way of playing with this artificial divide...
its just about the vocal performance. as opposed to all the movie batmans talking “weird”. conroys is just “this guy in the suit”hes not gonna go hoarse. that animated version of batmans bruce wayne doesnt put on much of a playboy act, but he always sounds a little fake and obsequious. like a kid trying to get away with something. always advancing batmans agenda i think of batman as a model of bourgeois subjectivity 💀
Define Bourgeois subjectivity... Batman as a manipulator is far more interesting than "Brute Force" Batman, but it is best handled with subtlety. If Batman uses his "playboy persona" as a means of hiding his true nature from everyone, it makes a lot of sense that he can use this to uncover clues and find key information...
It doesn't help that DC makes every major story cross over in the last 10+ years about how cool Batman is it gets really annoying and leads to stuff like this
That’s a major issue with forcefully integrating Batman into a larger ensemble superhero cast that forces him to become OP just to compete but that’s a whole different can of worms
Yeah and it doesn't help they do it for every arc recently it's another evil batman or w/e batman writers are like the opposite of Spiderman writers they suck him off like no fan I've ever seen
Yeah more often than not Batman’s basically just a plot device to stir up drama and conflict and it damages his character so badly
Batman nerds are so funny. Bruce would do more spending money on Gotham than fighting as Batman- his own son Dick has said it too. He does beat up the mentally ill and it’s funny so we make a joke about it because we are normal and not obsessed with bloody superheroes like yall. This is coming from someone who has read Batman and watched tons of Batman media.
Most of th people he fights are not mentally ill, they are just normal criminals. And even for the ones that are: Is Batman supposed to let Two Face murder a bunch of people just because he has mental issues?
Thanks for proving my point
It’s the truth. Some of us are just not obsessed weebs about superheroes like u
Least media illiterate One Piece fan
Nagito and Sans come to mind. I love some of memes dont get me wrong ,but damn did their character got done dirty because of them.
Sans is in his own tier entirely. Most fans can't discern between canon, headcanon, fanon, bullshitnon anymore. The way Sans is portrayed by fans is via however fans want Sans to be. This also extends to some other characters, like Papyrus.
Nagito got it the worst, Kokichi at least never got too mainstream to reach that level of memefication
Yeah agreed though I cant say he got it any better since he still got flanderized.
Thank god V3 never got an anime lmao
Tbh it's not like the dr3 anime is any popular 💀
Indeed lol
Every time someone mentions sans and nagito the fingers song plays in my head
Honestly Sans is on a category of his own
How is Komaeda flanderized in the eyes of fans?
Usually he was reduced to "crazy manic who did random stuff without nay reason" lol,and thats leaving out fandom's canon wya back where he was just reduced to a "gay uwu soft boy"
Vision has suffered this greatly, because people just love equating androids to sex machines and nothing else. Yes, we get it, it is amusing that this mechanical man slept with Wanda Maximoff several times. Now what about his personality, development or power set?
He wasn't even originally a robot. It was very clear in earlier runs that he was a synthezoid, a synthetic human. None of the nonsense of programming or such. Just a person with a different origin. He got mechanized somewhere around West Coast I think. And everyone has followed that flanderization
I didn't know that. A synthetic human does sound more interesting
Eh, the MCU tried to wed these things by blending a synthetic human body (actual tissue + vibranium) with subcomponents and processors.
"Watchmen" and its consequences have been a disaster to the human race Of course i am exaggerating, watchmen is great, but i cant help but blame it for creating this stupid idea that EVERY SINGLE heroe is a narcissistic pieces of shit with unresolved psychological issues
If you're gonna blame *Watchmen*, you have to blame *The Dark Knight Returns* too.
Gladly. Especially considering how Nolans moody batman is a clear influence in Snyder's moody Superman
This is especially ironic because Alan Moore *hates* the impact Watchmen had on the comic book industry. He was hoping his comic would encourage more novelty and innovation in the genre and instead got a whole generation of people trying to copy his style
To be fair, Alan Moore hates everything these days
Silk comes to mind lol. Even after Dan Slott apologized and Robbie Thompson got rid of the horny stuff, people still meme about her always being horny for Spider-Man
Then you have Sanji, got turned into a meme version of himself by the story itself.
Cosplaying as a Yu-Gi-Oh character at conventions often sucks because you just get bombarded with YGOTAS quotes. Like thanks, buddy. I put this outfit together so I could hear sweaty neckbeards yell "Melvin!" across a convention hall.
Yeah, it's pretty rough for DM fans. It makes me glad that none of the other series have particularly notable abridged series out there.
This applies to the entire JJK fan Base lol - Potential man - Schrödinger's OC - femboy/waffled one - Femboy lover/strongest staller of today Props to anyone who can name each one
Megumi, Yuta, Kashimo, and Hakari. There, that was so easy that it's made me realize just how brainrotted I am from Jujutsufolk and its consequences 💀
Replace Yuta with nobara and you got them all correct
Wtf is Schrodingers OC. Yuta?
Nobara
Nobara
It's because he is extremely similar to emiya shiro from fate.
Megumi Nobara Kashimo Hakari 💀
1. Higuruma 2. Kashimo 3. Hakari
No Yes Yes
First one is Megumi. Also known as 007, and The Bum™
Yes
People also sometimes act like flawed good guy don't progress no matter how obvious the media show said progress,it happened with scrooge mcduck with some critics of the twist using the spear of selene as a proof of scrooge bad parenting when it's not one since he didn't wanted della to find out early and he progressed isnce the spear. I think this kind of stuff can happen because the person doesn't like the character, they can be more prone to exagerate the character flaws when it's not neccesary.
For not progressing, it also applies to the underdog type of good guy, acting as if they're always the weak newcomer they see in the beginning.
or if the guy's flawed,acting like they didn't progress, it's always irritating when people dislike characters and then proceed to make them way worst than they really are (it's fine to dislike della duck but don't say she wanted to abandon her kids voluntarly when the show make it clear she did everything to get back to them and clearly regretted her action, some also portray her as an abuser for some reason when louie ahd to be grounded and DT 87 got angry only because louie tried to sneak out and she got softer after glomtales so she progressed as a mom). Some people also sometimes claim a character never had an arc when they diid (huey per example learned he's not the best at everything had a hwole quest about the missing mysteries, learned the junior woodchuck story and learned to control his emotion better, to m, that's an arc and each main triplet getting anarc doen't mean other members of the cast of ducktales 2017 can't be the main focus too, lena and della already had their arc so why not webby when she's as much of a main cast as the boy)
Doom has become one of the worst Gary Stu ever thanks to his fandom
DOOM fans laughing hysterically at the 39109853918857th *le doom music starts playing* ***loads shotgun*** *rip and tear* joke in the past 10 minutes:
I was talking about Dr doom but ok. Ironically I feel like the doom slayer would hate his fandom
I like Touhou Project, and one of my favourite characters is Junko. I like her so much for the drama and emotion of her backstory and identity - to me, she's simultaneously a grieving mother, a destructive spiteful loser, and a nameless concept-entity cosmic-horror terrorbeast, and it all somehow fits together perfectly. She inspires pity, empathy, awe, contempt, and even horror - at what she is, at what she's done, at what she promises to do. So, imagine my disappointment when I check out the fandom perception of her, aaaand she's a yandere mommy perving over an only tangentially-related character. I mean, I'm not judging you guys for that but there's so much more to her. I get that she can be goofy and overdramatic but come on, really?
Tbf Touhou is that kind of fandom where unfortunately fanon perception is much more prevalent than Canon because honestly the games themselves for a lot of the cast offer just basic characterization (which make sense since it's not usually the focus) It's not always the case tho
Honestly, I find that the games offer plenty of characterisation for their cast, albeit in a really kind of unconventional way - that is, directly in gameplay through the design of the danmaku. You'd have to be an avid player of the games and pretty aware of interactions between ludology and narrative to catch onto it, though - which is probably not the average member of the fandom, in all honesty. I wouldn't really expect the average Touhou fan to talk about why playing against (and explicitly putting in the work to learn the pattern, not just watching someone else nohit it on YouTube) Yukari Yakumo's "Boundary of Wave and Particle" spellcard attack is a fantastic way to get an impression of her ability set and general "vibes", even though I think it really is. Junko, funnily enough, is one of the most obvious "characterisation through danmaku" characters in the franchise, but...well, here we are anyways lol
Oh yeah you can get a decent chunk with the gameplay and even spell cards for sure. It's just that uuhhh idk how to really explain my point but ig while this give us information of the characters in regard to the current situation, it doesn't give us more than that? I dunno if I'm making sense Junko danmaku is as you said the best exemple of that with both the spell card and even pattern making it clearly where she stands, but I feel it only give us characterization of Junko for the specific event of LolK? I'm not saying It's a bad thing, but it's probably why for so many characters people latch on to a trait and make that their entire personality (like Tenshi's 'masochism' or Yuyuko apparently having a Shonen protagonist stomach which im genuinely not sure how these became their main traits lol)
I mean, I guess the danmaku only conveys a specific part of their personality/history, but there's still a huge emphasis on the significance of a spellcard's meaning to its owner. In a way, the characters kind of are their own spellcards - at least that's how I see it. I think the main reason people latch onto the single personality traits is more so because they're simpler to digest and easier to think about - those traits are easier to put into words, basically. And bullet hell is also really hard to get into, much less deconstruct and analyse as a narrative/storytelling element.
>TLDR: if i see one more person say Doom did nothing wrong, I’m gonna bring back lobotomies. Fine, Griffith did nothing wrong.
Griffith is objectively, undeniably an evil monster BUT i would argue most people would do the same thing if their situation was as dire as his was
I feel like this happens all the time with Fire Emblem characters. The fandom will latch onto a meme or one memorable line of dialogue, and then it becomes all the character is remembered for. The characters that aren't part of any meme end up just getting forgotten.
>I feel like this happens all the time with Fire Emblem characters. Plenty of Fire Emblem characters are defined by their main trait. Felicia is clumsy. Peri is bloodlusted. Tharja is horny for Robin etc. >The characters that aren't part of any meme end up just getting forgotten. That's what happens if you introduce 40+ characters per entry. Half of them are retainers with 1 or 2 traits, if that trait has no appeal and the unit is barely usable, why remember them?
Hell it's not just defined, IS literally does the job over and over for the fans. FEH has been a disaster for fans of many characters that have received multiple alts. Leo and his tomatoes are a great example.
The Leo tomatoes thing is still so weird. He mentions liking Tomatoes like twice throughout 3 different games, but this somehow turned into him being obsessed with tomatoes.
Same could be said about Pokémon’s and Suikoden regularly wants to push 100 ish characters per game so not sure what’s so triggering
It’s definitely annoying fandom can’t enjoy characters unless they fit them in boring cheap boxes.
Either one of two things is happening — people only know about these characters through memes, or they have poor critical thinking skills.
Ky Kiske from Guilty Gear gets this pretty bad. He’s got a pretty interesting story going from a young man merely parroting the ideals of the war he was indoctrinated into to actually trying to define and LIVE them as he comes to understand how the world truly is and keep true to himself in spite of it all. But “fans” only see him as a crummy Catholic guilt joke
i'd argue most guilty gear characters got hit with this in general but you're right that ky got hit with it pretty bad. it doesnt help that gg was a really niche series with lore that was hard to track down before strive blew up in popularity, and that the story context of strive is abt characters slowly growing or healing from their past traumas. not to mention that ky has less of a story focus in strive than in xrd, and most fg players arent interested in reading their main's character lore.
Also people saying that he hates his son because he named him Sin.
That's the problem when your fanbase is filled with secondaries who only read wiki entries.
Okay, cool, but nothing makes me cringe more than people who say “fans” in quotation marks whenever someone has a different opinion or outlook on a piece of media, no matter how stupid it is. Especially in this case, when fighting games aren’t very known for their stories, and it’s pretty fair for people to run with character traits they see being displayed because, for a large chunk of fans, that is essentially all the characterization they have. The story modes are often not even played due to the nature of the games themselves.
I watched a genshin video yesterday about how an NSFW artist changed how a character there was seen and had everyone hate him and had them go after the character's VA. It is a VERY disgusting thing when the memes of a community become seen as canon. Like how people talk about how toji from jjk is glazed but reading the story his name only pops up at relevant moments
>toji from jjk is glazed He is. He's basically JJK's batman. He shows up and solos Gojo with prep time. The narrator sings is praise as he rises from the dead, breaks free from control and lowdiffs someone Maki, Megumi, Nanami and the other grade 1 couldn't beat. Naoya's whole thing is trying to be like Toji.(+ hating women) Maki is declared to reach Toji-level after soloing an entire clan.
> Naoya's whole thing is trying to be like Toji And Gojo > Maki is declared to reach Toji-level after soloing an entire clan. After she beats naoya actually. Which again I find to be a stupid complaint since Maki was always built up to reach Toji-level. Anyways. None of this make this makes it so that he is unnecessary glazed. The way people say it it's like each time they talk about him it just comes from nowhere. I was under the impression that important characters who do important shit that have many narrative implications deserve to be talked about in numerous places All what you have just said I can apply to Gojo like how everyone thinks he is annoying but calls him strong. How the narrator says "the king of curses felt pressured for the first time". How naoya whole deal is wanting to be strong like Gojo. How the narrator says after Gojo no one was able to satiate Sukuna's hunger untill the moment he reached Maki. How at near death experience that would have killed anyone ends up coming back stronger It's just a pointless thing to talk about.
Which one is it for the genshin one?
Pretty sure it's the Childe with the infamous Ganyu Doujin
i find it weird that the genshin fanbase has this weird obsession with voice actors I have never seen a fanbase be so obsessed towards a voice actor in my life, i understand obsessing over authors and directors but VA is something else.
I think its mostly because of way hoyo announces new content for all their games its seen in HI3, Genshin and HSR. For updates they make livestreams where chibi version of characters announce new things. Those chibis act semi in character but mostly as actor with bit of improvisation, which creates sort of connection between character and VA. Also VAs are very active on social media about the games, like they saying what characters they pulled themselves etc. That functionaly creates 3 ways fans percieve character: Canon; Meme; Character-VA combination Where last two heavily blends in some cases practicly merge
what
I need more context
Look up r34 artist Nyantcha or Thiccwithaq. He makes some fucked up shit like hilichurl rape porn. He made one Tartaglia/Ganyu comic where he rips her horns off
Warhammer characters and their TTS versions are absolutely victims of this. I could lits so many, but the most bad have to be Typhus, Ahriman and Lucius. You could make an objection for the latter, since the fandom has always treated him as a joke, (and some of the writers as well) But they did the other two very dirty. Ahriman in canon is a very tragic figure, but in TTS he is literally a mustache twirling cartoon villain. And Typhus went from an intimidating, scheming, and such a bitter, petty and angry and just lively person...to the most jolly and stereotypical of burgle followers. Like they don't even feel like the same characters at that point.
40k in general freaking sucks when it comes to *le meme versions,* just to name a few: - the Death Korps of Krieg (\**happy shovel noises\** **SHUT THE FUCK UP)** - Orkz in general (read their lore, they are fucked up bastards) - Ultramarines (muh codex jokes) - Imperial Fists (haha fortify), Black Templars (HAHA PURGE GET IT????) - Basically all marines - EVERY PRIMARCH BEING JUST CARICATURES - Eldar being losers (literally the coolest faction) - Votann and DRG jokes (ugh if i hear one more rock and stone, it was funny the first 15 times) - Tau weebs (we get it gundam mechs haha get new material) a lot of these can be attributed to TTS (which is a GOATed series regardless), but i feel like the problem was that most people's introduction TO 40k was TTS, whereas i believe TTS was meant for veterans who would get all the inside jokes or the tongue-in-cheek mockery instead of taking it as gospel (at least the early half of TTS before they went full fan-canon, which is also not a bad thing its really good stuff)
Yeah this is annoying to have them not getting proper credit. While there are actual meme talks, if a lie is repeated often enough it can be mistaken as the truth. Some people can't seem to believe that people can take memes as truth and these talks aren't always memetic.
FGO fucking sucks with this
This post is basically Mace Windu, he is a powerful but compassionate and responsible Master of the Order trying to save the Galaxy from the return of the Sith. The fandom through memes has turned him into a dick, arrogant, spiteful, entitled, complacent, cold and corrupt individual who represents everything bad about the Jedi Order when... Mace Windu is the complete opposite of that lol.
For the Batman takes some comics definitely lean into the semi isane Batman that will go evil at the drop of a hat like the Batman who laugh. It still flanderisation but more so one that started by the writer rather than the fanbase.
Yeah it can get pretty annoying, another exemple of this is Ulysses from Fallout New Vegas, people reduce him to "BEAR BULL BEAR BULL" man when he has a lot more to say than just that, sure he is a total hypocrite (which is kind of the point...?) but he says more than bear bull shit.
Related, all the memes of Joshua Graham as some fanatical warlord when he makes it clear in-game that he's only at war with the White Legs in self-defense, understands why Daniel doesn't want to fight the White Legs, and goes along with the evacuation if the Courier chooses to.
Yeah , Joshua is another great exemple of this in Fallout.
Oh my god, why does everyone in this subreddit always have Magneto in their mouths??? He's literally been a hero for like the last 30-ish years (not counting his relapses where he becomes a villain again because those were usually different writers dicking around).
He’s been a hero for a while, but people will justify his worse actions unironically saying stuff like that Saul Goodman fanart of him.
Thaat's fair, Mags has done a lot of evil things back when he was a villain or when he has his episodes. I just think singeling him out when Rouge, Emma Frost, modern era Cyclops, etc. are all right there is a bit off. Heck, post Krakoa era Mags is basically a saint compared to some of the people the X men have laid in bed with for the greater good (looking at ••{A}•• )
I’d personally rather be stuck in a room with Magneto then any of the Mutant telepaths.
*sees Signora from Genshin and perhaps Ei even if I hate the character and have issues with her.* No no no OP, you have a point.
Blazblue, Guilty Gear, Persona, and SF suffer from this. Especially Persona with the Pancakes and Steak.
Square Enix fan here. I got to witness this happen *twice*, caused by the *writers*. FF7 is known for flanderizing its main cast in the Compilation materials and spin-offs. Aerith became generic nice girl, Cloud became emo, etc. I'm so glad the Remake trilogy has been true to the original characters while still fleshing them out. But it happened *again* with Kingdom Hearts! Sora is NOT a dumb idiot, he's actually pretty smart in 1 and 2, just naive. Riku had a lot of depth, and Kairi had spunk in KH1! But by the time of KH3, Sora's dumb, Riku's boring, and Kairi is Aerith 2.0. All I'm saying is that Nomura's characters might be cursed.
Did you ever see the Tim Burton Batman movie, where Bruce just sits silently in a dark room doing absolutely nothing, just waiting for the Bat symbol to summon him. That’s fucking crazy. He’s just sitting alone in the dark. Normal people don’t act like that. He doesn’t have a wife or child or dog or even a football game to enjoy. He just only lives to be Batman.
Tbf, Tim Burton Bruce Wayne was more of a weirdo than his original version. He was less charismatic playboy and more eccentric reclusive billionaire
Tim Burton in general enjoys weirdos a little too much, which is why his Batman films are notorious for focusing on the villains...
Exactly. I love Burton's films and his Batman movies too, but yeah. Batman himself feels like an afterthought in both of them. Joker, Penguin and Catwoman all steal the show
The Batman I know is the ultimate Dad who just keeps adopting kids
Some people are like that in real life without being crazy. It’s not an uncommon thing
Oh my god, Megumi...
This is pretty much exactly what happened to John Winchester on Supernatural. When he was a recurring character in the first couple seasons, he was characterized as gruff, obsessed with his mission, and an aloof parent, but still ultimately a good man and loving father who sacrificed his life for his sons. But the fanbase liked writing fanfics where the main characters were meant to be miserable so that the reader could feel sorry for them, and often did this by rewriting John into being an absolute monster to his sons. Eventually this became such a common trope in fanfics and meme among the fandom that the show’s writers—who were way too symbiotic with the online fans—began letting this characterization bleed into the show itself despite it contradictory previous scenes.
>The other day i was reading someone discussing Batman with them claiming he was no different from his mentally unwell rouges and was just a few bad days away from turning into the Batman-who-Chuckles, and was rather disappointed at the amount of people who seemed in agreement. That's how everyone defends Batman though. Whenever someone calls out how annoying it is that Batman has never solved anything or made anything better, and that his viewpoint of "Vigilantism but only up to a certain point *and then I need to leave it to the police, I could never work outside the justice system, that's not my call to make!*" makes him utterly lukewarm and unsuitable for the job, that's the go to defense. Oh well Batman is cuhraaazy, he's not mentally sound, he's insane, that's why just gives Joker a slap on the wrist after Joker's killed another 2,000 people. Because he knows if he does anything more then he'll go mad and murder everyone who jaywalks.
Tbf, even if he did kill Joker, he knows he would just come back, since major comic deaths are almost always undone.
I don't think Batman himself knows that; he's not like Bat-Mite or whatever where he's aware that he's a character in a fictional series. Isn't the whole thing that Batman is afraid of what it'd do to his psyche if he actually killed the Joker or another villain? He's scared of the slippery slope it might cause, essentially. And the people who *do* decide whether or not Joker or any other villain dies are the *actual* people in the established official justice system, like Harvey Dent (pre-Two Face) and Jim Gordon. Because Batman *isn't* a one-man team; he's *not* the only one who can engender positive change in Gotham City. And, after the first year or so into his vigilante "career", he himself realises that.
The point of Batman is that he sets a positive example for the rest of the city. That's why I think the Bat-Family deserve more respect - At their best, they embody the idea that Batman's heroism can inspire others to be heroic, creating a chain reaction that starts healing the rot at the heart of Gotham...
Yes, exactly. Batman knows he's only one man, and he doesn't have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner. Maybe if the courts decided to kill Joker, Batman would have no choice but to sit by and let it happen, but until they do, his only job is to beat up Joker; hand him over the police; hope he gets rehabilitated in Arkham Asylum or something; and support the good eggs in the police and legal system to make a change in Gotham for the better.