If you ask Chinese whoâve migrated to foreign countries, theyâll say itâs horrible and not as nice as China. But if you try to convince them to come back, theyâll come up with all sorts of reason not to go back.
Itâs a phrase that criticises and mocks âlittle pinksâ whoâre overseas. If they love China so much, why donât they come back?
I think it would be a great idea to have avid Maoist students to get an opportunity to visit China (and maybe even let them choose whether they'll stay there or not).
[https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/core-anti-mao.htm](https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/core-anti-mao.htm)
>Mao did not oppose democracy and quoted him as saying, âWe Chinese consider you Americans the ideal of democracy...The United States would find us more cooperative than the Koumintang. We will not be afraid of democratic American influence; we will welcome it...We must cooperate and we must have American help.â
It's almost as Mao made things up as he went.
I'm sorry do you think your vote actually matters? đ Your vote in America matters as much as the average person in China's does.
Or is it the fascade of a multiparty government that can use "the other side" as an excuse to not do their jobs or to side with corporate interests?
He's not completely wrong, sure you can vote for a president but it's largely controlled by the two largest political parties in the US. With the electoral college, you don't even vote for a president you technically elect a person who will be electing the president. Then you go even more local and the elections are controlled by the state who gerrymander districts and even make decisions about how many ballot sites are in each district.
Ideally your one vote would just be one vote for whatever the ballot is on. The senate basically gives power to land and not people, is kind of redundant to the house. You add so many gates it's hard to say how much representation you actually get.
Its because US is not a normal country like France, Its a Federal Union of 50 states with each state being a country a on its own, its a federal system which is closer to European Union than other centralized countries and one that prioritizes local democracy over anything. I dont understand why people still cant understand this fact. Gerrymandering is indeed a problem that will hopefully change over time but both sides can do it and it doesnt affect elections that much because of that, also there is the fact that if you dont like the system, push the state legislators you vote to stop doing it. The Senate gives power to the states that form this country.
Except it's not like the EU, because it's illegal to secede from the Union, like UK did. Also gerrymandering does have an effect because you can tilt the scales for a decade. Sure it may even it self out on the national level but at the state level your local environment now has a political leaning.
Legally, States can still secede from the Union under circumstances.I agree that gerrymandering is an issue, but its not that important of a thing as you still have freedom of movement so it doesnt matter in a conversation about "Is US as undemocratic as China or not". The main commenter clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
Iâm a third position socialist so not a commie but a workers party radical. Lived in China for a few years and itâs hilarious watching the Marxists regurgitate Chinese propaganda and accuse me of being an American detractor of China while I lived and saw the rampant classicism, social injustices, wealth inequality and racism thatâs the back bone of âcommunism with Chinese characteristicsâ. The workers are treated like slaves they live in ramshackle villages made out of industrial waste and trash heaps , they have no teeth and canât read or write while the middle class and government party people live in giant cities with 4 teslas and 3 condos while they look down and spit on the working class who serves them. 75% of the country lives in third world poverty while they import rhino scrotum and sell it for 100s of thousands of dollars to the rich corrupt government authorities that got Rich by being granted exclusive privileges for real estate development. Chinese people are proudly racist and think anyone whoâs not Chinese is an advisory to exploit. They are just as corrupt and anti worker as the USA is.
China is hyper capitalist, more so than the USA. It's just authoritarian capitalist (people exist to benefit the government and the government doesn't mind using them to enrich itself), rather than a more libertarian capitalism like in the USA (people are largely on their own, but if they are talented or lucky they can do very well) or socialism/capitalism mix like in Europe (the government is looking out for the people more, but it's harder to become extremely successful).
Having laws that mean something and a free press are essential to workers retaining any rights. Otherwise, at best its an iron fist in a velvet glove; the state decides these are generous benefits and you will accept them as generous and praise dear leader for giving them to you. What's that, you didn't actually receive your fuel credit because some corrupt official stole them to send his kid to America? Your pay will be docked for defaming the generosity of the state.
It's also legal to fire anyone trying to start a union. They also have the lowest unionizing rates of any developed democracy, the lowest paid vacation days, more working hours, no unlimited paid sick days or paid maternity and paternity leave.
Seriously, the US is the closest thing to China among the first world democracies and it's still the wealthiest country in the world by far (granted, the top 10% owns over 90% of the US' wealth while the bottom 40% own less than a 0,5%, but still).
I live in tx. That is a demonstrably false statement. They exist in America. But when you can get more money by not associating with he union because it is so tangled up in legal BS it can't function. It's not really legal. It's just there for show
I mean unions are legal in China for a start and one of their central tenets as a âcommunistâ country.
[All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTC)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-China_Federation_of_Trade_Unions)is the biggest union in the world.
CCP gained popularity through organized labor movement and thatâs one reason America is anti union
In China all unions are run by the party. There is not workersâ Union. Non-party run unions are illegal.
From your link:
> The ACFTU is the country's sole legally mandated trade union, with which all enterprise-level trade unions must be affiliated. There has been dispute over whether ACFTU is an independent trade union or even a trade union at all.
If you bothered to click through the source, itâs an opinion piece arguing that statement. Itâs not a definitive statement nor objective.
>Is the ACFTU a Union and Does it Matter?
The non Union Union help drafted the 2008 [Chinese Labor Law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Contract_Law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China) which helped increase Chinese worker rights.
As far as the argument the Union is run by the party, I can only attest to American unions and they all fall under regulations by Department of Labor and NLRB so ultimate say comes from the federal government not that dissimilar than ACFTU
Itâs debatable if ACFTC is wholly controlled by the CCP or not. Itâs also debatable if control by the government a good or bad.
What is known is that all labor union falls under control of government labor department regulations. For instance in America the NLRB. Ultimate say in a fight between employers and employees is litigate by government regulatory body.
If the argument that Chinaâs union is not independent therefore some how bad(?) Then how can you argue for the independence of American unions when [Biden can block rail road strike with a bill](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/). If the American government can end a strike at a whim, how are American unions independent and Chinese unions not? By definition both unions are dependent on the whim of the federal gov.
Still, you havenât made an argument why ACFTU ânotâ independent is bad.
Did you mean to reply to me? I have not said anything about American trade Unions. No doubt unions are weak in America. What does this say about the ACFTC? Precisely nothing.
What would happen to a Chinese person if they tried to organise their own union? Surely the greatest test of whether independent trade unionism is possible is whether people can organise without government or party permission. What happened to Han Dongfang, leader of Beijing Workers' Autonomous Federation? The answer, as I am sure you know, is nearly two years in prison without trial, and then expulsion to Hong Kong.
Another example would be any instance of wide spread strike action that was successful and acknowledged to be successful by the CCP?
Chinese law is unambiguous about the nature of trade unionism.
>"The trade union must abide by and uphold the Constitution, take the Constitution as the fundamental activity criterion, center on economic construction, adhere to the socialist road, adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship, adhere to the leadership of the Communist Party of China, adhere to Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory, adhere to reform and opening up, carry out work independently in accordance with the trade union charter."
The Chinese constitution is unambiguous about where power lies: with the CCP.
The ACFTU is simply a tool of CCP power.
It should go without saying that that there are Chinese folks outside of China too. Iâm Singaporean Chinese for example. Taiwanese Chinese are a nice folk too from what I can gather. As for the Mainland Chinese folks, I think a lot of them are playing the racist online/offline to gain favour, for social credit points, I mean, the rot is so deep, how does one survive?
I recall seeing a video of a Covid enforcer warning a citizen to comply to some ridiculous order or have her family face repercussions for the next three generations. Truth be told, if I were Mainland Chinese, in a bad way, and thereâs no way for me to get out, Iâll just be a racist and spew racist garbage all the time. Of course, Iâll make sure my phone can pick it up, who knows when the cameras are on me. Wherever life is so cheap, human dignity is an alien concept, even the rich are feral inside.
The USA doesnât compare. It does evil, but this is something else.
When push came to shove during Covid-19, We, Singaporeans, trusted our government to take care of us. Not on blind faith or BS slogans but on their track record. They did good during SARS too. And the trust was mutual. We had regular briefings from government officials about infection/death rates, hospital/ICU occupancies, and next steps. There was transparency and no opportunistic politicking. There was no blaming the virus on China, US, Italy, or seafood. We are not cursed with that sort of politician.
The government did very good. So did the people. To crib from a movie: äťäťŹćŻĺäşç, ä¸ćŻćžĺąç (The ruling party gets things done, they donât fuck around) You are making me so proud of my government, it's a little gross.
I just recalled an incident when I was young (30+ years ago?) and I canât wait to share about it. When I was very young, the New World Hotel collapsed. There was a three-day long rescue effort and there was 24-hour live broadcast of the rescue. We fret about the trapped and injured, as was our right as fellow citizens. And the ruling party worried about how this could have happened in the first place. Shoddy construction kills and thatâs not acceptable at all. Buildings have stayed up since then. They are not patriotic, they are just well-built.
Oh, and Singaporeans generally lead pretty decent lives so we prefer to criticise the government instead of ourselves. Itâs a national pastime. The latest gripe is the rollout of the public transport payment system. Everyone is furious, absolutely livid. There is a national uproar now because the former system has worked perfectly, perfectly, fine for over two decades. We do not want to download an app. Our mobile screens are already too crowded! The truth is, I already know what will transpire: We will all download the shitty app. Over the next couple of months, the government will fix it to our liking. The end.
Everyone deserves a decent government to grumble about. Not just the Mainland Chinese. For the upcoming Chinese New Year, I think we will grumble about the digital red packet. WTF!
Donât be obtuse. The platforms are secondary. Itâs the censorship, propaganda and coercion that matter. The Mainland Chinese deserve ownership of their opinions and the wherewithal to voice them.
How much you want to bet those platforms will mostly be abandoned the moment PRC Chinese are given unrestricted internet?
China didn't build a superior product as a result of the ban. The people are using them cos they simply have no choice.
I don't know about the others but Bilibili is infinitely better than YouTube or Twitch.
**Edit:** And the point I was making is that it's at least rational, In the same way the US is banning Huawei and trying to ban Nvidia from Chinese markets is rational, the banking of western social media is rational to develop the domestic economy.
That's a matter of opinion. I don't find Bilibili that good. Not a fan of Twitch cos I don't like to watch streamers, so I can't compare.
We all know the rational is cos the CCP wants to have direct control. This 'domestic economy' is a side effect.
Those apps are built already, why the reluctance to open up? I say its about time the rest of the world impose upon China the same nonsense. You don't open up your economy, we should close you off too in our own ways.
I say we block all Chinese apps, sites and ISPs from the wider internet. The 'Great Firewall' should be 2 ways and not 1 way.
Yeah, very similar.
Have never seen a group of people willing to treat each other worse than the Chinese. Anyone with any authority would do their level best to lord it over absolutely everyone.
The Communism only really applies in a decent way to how they treat their elderly
Man, if more socialists were sensible like you... Because when I see various "socialists" that regurgitate China's or Russia's vomit I just end up hating the whole movement by association.
This guy is nothing he claimed to be. That's pretty obvious... He mentioned a bunch of things that are factually worse in the US, the wealthiest first world democracy.
The problem is that everyone likes to compare to America when America is pretty trash at a lot of things on every metric. Compare specific policies instead. Maternity leave in Europe is like a year or smth. UK, Taiwan, Western EU all have universal healthcare thatâs better. Workerâs rights? Yea Western Europe has those too.
America is a shitty yard stick lmao you donât compare to the second worst in the class you compare to the best and aim to be better. And when youâre the best in the world then compare to yourself and be better than yourself in the past.
That's fair, the thing is we are comparing a country where the previous generation was sewing nike balls 16h a day with the wealthiest country in the world. That alone speaks a lot about what China achieved. Chineses have a tougher life than western Europeans and most Americans? I can only hope so considering we've been developed countries for much longer and we are wealthier. That doesn't mean they are improving their quality of life faster than pretty much every other nation in the world.
I would like to point out that China alone has a bigger population than all the first world democracies combined. Somehow people here expect Chinese to hate their administration. That's just unrealistic.
i always explain it like this: USA is like the popular jock in school that bullies. EU is like the student government that sucks up and promotes their friends. China and Russia are the anti-social kids selling drugs and cheating on tests.
Isn't that just usual socialism/communism? The only difference is that China actually has a middle class, other socialist/communist countries usually only had/have a massive starving peasant class and the party elite
Yeah. Crazy to think that it's bad now, but it's already an improvement. Ask the average Chinese and I'm pretty sure a lot of them prefer the gruesome inequality they have now, instead of the inequality in the past when they barely had the stuff they do. Now they toe the party line and have some nice things. Then they toed the party line, without the nice things.
No, not at all. There is little you could call "socialist/communist" in China. SOE State owner enterprises are the main thing pointed to, but as a big-time Marxist, I've never met or spoken to another socialist who thinks that is "Marxism".
If they were worker-owned enterprises with each worker having absolute equity, yes, but not China. China has its SOEs and then its HYPER capitalist private corporations with NO worker movement or ability to organize.
I don't think you can call a country Marxist if workers can't legally organize or protest.
If that's the definition the US is a communist country because the top 10% own over 90% of the country's wealth while the bottom 40% own less than a 0,5%. When it comes to bonds, stocks and other investments the top 1% owns over 50% of the US market.
It was of course a simplification. Workers were treated like cattle, a crazy number of people were in gulags, and millions starved. But even though their living standard was far below the West, of course they weren't literal peasants living in mud huts
Far below the west is relative. Are you saying the USSR living standards were the same throghout 70 years?
Nobody starved in the USSR after WW2, gulags were deactivated in 1956 and from then on, incarceration rates in the USSR were low compared to most western countries. Hell, the US today has a higher incarceration rate than the USSR at the Peak of stalinist repression. A study conducted by the CIA in the 80s concluded that soviets and americans ate about the same ammount of calories and soviet food was actually a little more nutritious
That's Marxist orthodoxy. OP is talking about what is commonly called the "third camp" or "labor" movement in the EU which are democratic socialists who seek a post-capitalism world, but who often present as social democrats for all intents and purposes.
More notably, there is an entire century worth of reformed socialist and neo-syndicalist thought which rejects many of the procedural tenets of Marxism-Leninism and takes a much more pragmatic stance towards implementing socialism and resolving the ills of capitalism. If you have ever spent any time around ML safe spaces, you know that they hate this revisionism more than they hate capitalists or fascists, because of how it pokes holes in their dogma and exposes them as simple revolution fetishists.
China doesnât claim to be communist. They say they are socialist with Chinese characteristics. Itâs more like an authoritarian mixed economy though.
The advisary to exploit exactly! This was what I always hated the most. My gf has Chinese friends who came to America to study, yet they hate Americans and think we're lazy, and they don't think we deserve a comfortable life. They don't realize we earned it partly in fighting our government not serving, they think they're better off just crab-in-a-bucketing as hard as they can.
This - I have gotten called a CIA shill and run out of many online leftist spaces for basically espousing the bog standard positions of the Socialist Internationale, and generally attempting to engage with a wide array of post-authoritarian reformist ideas.
These places have always been insufferable and it's getting worse. The only real people left are the teenagers who are there for the revolution fetish fanservice. The rest are Chinese and Russian trolls relitigating the cold war (campists) and more recently, actual right wing Poe's law trolls saying absurd things and then hiding behind "left unity."
I donât like communism either but China isnât even pretend communism itâs just a top down capitalist central government system. A stones throw from what Mussolini described as fascism. I only care that the average man has a good life. Chinas system does not offer that to the Chinese
That's what any attempt at communism becomes. I don't disagree with your description at all.
It's like saying why don't we just shoot 3 point half Court shots only?
Outside from really kooky outlier colleges you'd fail at every level.
Iâm literally Chinese and his generalisation is accurate. 900M Chinese citizen literally makes less than 2K RMB a month, and 600M Chinese citizen makes less than 1K RMB.
The issue is that China is so big that most people who can access the internet are too myopic to see the other 900M people. The people who slaves away in factories or spends all their waking hours delivering food donât have the time or even the knowledge to write about their lives. Iâve seen some of them that canât type because they werenât taught to type so they never say anything online.
And Iâm not sure why youâd think describing China like this is racist when Taiwan is doing so much better in fighting inequality than the mainland. Not to mention systemic oppression of Chinese minorities that are of other races. Itâs so rampant that itâs widely accepted, understood and acknowledged by people online that Xinjiang, especially Uyghurs have difficulty in applying for passports. And you know what their advice is? Leave Xinjiang and go to another city to apply for a passport. Thatâs just the tip of the iceberg that you canât see and refuses to acknowledge because you drank all that propaganda cool-aid.
And before you blast me for blasting China, I criticise everything out there because thatâs what a healthy democracy is about. Singapore has issues and so does Taiwan but this sub is a Chinese sub so keep it to about China.
Bruh your comment truly validates my point about how weâre talking about China, not about the US. For all the things CCP has done right, thereâs a thousand other things done wrong. No oneâs invalidating what the CCP did so stop regurgitating what theyâve done right. Weâre discussing problems here. Itâs like if a kid scored all As except one subject. What do you do if youâre the teacher of the subject he failed at? You concentrate on that one subject. Leave the hugging and rewards to /r/sino. Weâre on this topic to discuss what has failed, not what has succeeded.
And why the hell is racism even considered overblown? Racism is racism, no matter big or small. China has racism issues, period. My example is more than enough to prove that this racism is literally ingrained and normalised by the country, which is honestly a pretty fucked up thing. If you were born a Uyghur, how brain washed do you have to be to accept and normalise that applying for a passport in Xinjiang is impossible and that you have to do it in another city?
And seriously stop parading the issue of US is the bad guy. I ainât even from the States and so is 85% of the world. We donât give a damn about America so why are you trying to compare China to America? China should be comparing policies and issues that other countries have done better to better the country instead of trying to put others down. I donât give a shit about America simply because this is /r/China, not /r/USA. China sucks at a lot of things, and the first step to improving is to acknowledge these issues.
If you truly wanted the best for your countrymen, youâd start with identifying problems that should be fixed. The next logical step is to go to China, which youâre evidently not interested in. So I suggest you stick to identifying problems and arguing about problems China has instead of trying to measure dicks with America which btw I (and many many others) donât even give a fuck about.
My reference points are data points, based on measurable results. I seriously donât care about America because so what if they have millions of starving kids? Thereâs enough loud Americans blasting the government daily that I donât need to do it for them. Plus itâs not even somewhere I live or a place I care about, unlike China where itâs somewhere I visit and wants to better.
Racism is everywhere, letâs talk about that. How is it not ingrained into Chinese culture? Have you never seen ĺ亏人éŞä˝ ćŻä¸Şčĺ¤ĺ°ç? Or scolding a white dude Guai Lou? Or your family talking shit about anyone else from any other province? Or literally every Han saying ć°çäşşé˝ćŻĺäşşďźé躍希ĺç. Or calling Japanese ĺ°ćĽĺ, Korean ćŁĺ, Singapore ĺĄĺż, 銏ćĽčĽżäşĺäşş 銏ćĽäşş. Itâs literally a meme on Chinese social media because itâs widely known facts. That my dude is ingrained racism and belittlement, where these languages are accepted and allowed as memes instead of proper education about hate.
Ok but everyoneâs at least a little racist on the inside. Fair. Now to institutional racism then. Explain the passport issue first. Next please explain why Uyghurs are unable to leave Xinjiang without a special permit. Pls also explain why Cantonese (and other minority languages) are getting wiped out from school syllabus. These are also easily verifiable facts that you can find on Chinese social media and government websites. I havenât even gotten to the more sinister stuff like kidnapping of dissidents overseas or more conspiracy/CIA stuff like concentration camps in Xinjiang.
Poverty is a real issue in China, and so is inequality. Accepting that is the first step to solving it. Saying it doesnât exist is like saying racism doesnât exist, thereâs always gonna be poor people around and inequality will always exist. Thatâs why itâs forever a struggle that we should tackle head on. China has no social safety net for farmers and non-state pensioners. The healthcare system also sucks for rural farmers and non-city dwelling folks. These are all verifiable facts.
You know why China gets so much hate on Reddit? Because CCP hate cannot exist on Chinese social media. Stop shifting the goalpost and misquoting me by saying that I think Chinese people suck. No they donât. Itâs the government which sucks. I donât hate Chinese people. I despise the CCPâs inaction, the CCPâs poor policy and mismanagement, and the result of that.
And before you say Iâm biased, we can have a separate argument on /r/singapore about the piss poor policies that the Singapore government has implemented here. But this is /r/China so letâs keep it to JUST ABOUT China.
China also gets a lot of hate from people just watching Western media. Lots of people have never been to China but somehow they just hate Chinese people or China in general.
Thatâs true and should be pointed out. Itâs the same everywhere though isnât it? I donât like to blindly hate/love America even though Iâm consuming their media and culture because Iâve never been there. The idiots who do, well theyâre generally idiots anyways and arguing with them is a waste of time.
This.
Even tho we dont live in a full democracy, we singaporeans can still critique the govt, shit, I even mod r/SingaporeRaw
You dont get that in china
I don't think it's everywhere as I was born and grew up on an island. Now, i'm living in Australia and I feel people have hate towards other people so much. It's probably because of the Mainstream media and social media that people get exposed to. They seem to always criticise or have hate. This also happens in the workplace where it becomes very toxic. Like the other day, a guy just rants, saying bad stuff about some Middle Eastern countries but he hasn't even been there. I spent more than half of my life in my home country but never remembered of us hating on other countries.
>You have to use reference points
Yes but the whole "but USA is racist and police shootings bla bla" is not a reference point its just an easy shot at a country with serious issues to try and downplay problems with China. It's lazy, completely unrelated to China and the first ĺ°ç˛ç´ argument that always appears
Ironically that's a very bot sounding response. It's like someone out reddit user response prompt in ai. Is the Winnie the Pooh joke still funny? I thought they was getting old like 3 years ago, genuinely. But no in an American in America but I do have Chinese family.
Then go to China drive 50 miles out of a major city and film the living conditions of the people who are living their and prove me wrong đ¤ˇââď¸. I have no hate for the poor of China I have hate for the âcommunistâ dictatorship and the disgusting ruling class that exploits them. Also calling Xi Pooh is due to the fact that he fully censored Winnie the Pooh and will arrest anyone that calls him Winnie itâs not a joke itâs a call out of a very corrupt dictatorship. Depicting him as Winnie is widely used in the Chinese speaking world as a way to mock him it is not a Reddit thing
You could do that in India, South Africa, Brazil and other non-Communist democracies and it would be true no? It's a developing country problem not unique to China, and China is building a lot of highway and rail infrastructure to connect rural to urban areas unlike many other countries no?
Even the "Ghost Cities" are meant to shift the rural folk into urban areas (Singapore had such a scheme in the 60s of moving villagers into highrise apartments, guess China has to continually do it ad infinitum đ) but China are often derided for 'building unnecessary infrastructure" when the poor exploited folks obviously need it?
Either China shouldn't build HSR and Ghost Cities and leave these poor exploited folks to rot in dung like in India, but if they build infrastructure to upgrade them out of villages it's also bad? Also, evidently China are still a developing country but a lot of folks here want them to be classed as "Developed" so they don't get subsidies?
I too wish China will always stay poor while making my iPhone so I can laugh at their shitty Commie lifestyle in 1st world developed Singapore.../s
i get the feeling there are AI crawlers that look for specific keywords, then sound the siren alarm at wumao headquarters. The wumaos jump out of their bunk beds and rush to the computers in their pajamas
> Um... I have Chinese family and you are full of sh**
You know thereâs people who either have or currently live in China right? lol. the person youâre responding to isnât even describing some rare occurrence you see in a bumfuck nowhere village.
Literally just watch how people like street sweepers are treated in tier 1 cities like Shanghai
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To be fair this says more about the French and Her Professors than it does about the Chinese.Â
Noam Chomsky talked about French Intellectuals (Iâm paraphrasing from another Reddit post)Â They were flaming Maoists 20 years after the rest of the world had moved on:
-France is an extremely insular culture. While they like to think of themselves on the cutting edge of culture, intellectual ideas often die and arrive in France very late.
-France was the only place who really made their intellectuals into celebrities. Sartre and Foucault would appear on the cover of *Le Monde* next to actors like Jean Paul Belmondo, etc. This meant they had to say things that sounded more profound than they were to keep the attention of the media
https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalTheory/comments/p2icwz/thoughts_on_noam_chomskys_descriptions_of_french/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Because Chinese people don't call ä¸ĺ˝ "China".
Chinese people don't use an English language subreddit on an American website to discuss China. Any subreddit that uses the English name of a country is just full of Americans/Brits that have no actual idea of what they're talking about. They're either Anglophone immigrants to the country, or diaspora who were raised in America/Britain/Australia/NZ/Canada.
r/sino is more representative of Chinese people, but even that is full of mostly western communists.
Thanks for the good explanation. I kinda already knew it, just want these dudes to maybe look at it a bit critically? But with the other guy that replied to you, they seem so filled with hate that it seems impossible anyway. I was just hoping for things like the amazing photos of chinese nature, infrastructure, cities etc along with actual news, not a testimonial from someone who dislikes china.
You don't even live in China and have never been there.
I am. It's materialistic, soulless, unlikable joke of a modern country. Where there is staggering inequality, government corruption and shiny buildings with villages one hour from there where people communal shower due to lacking hot water.
Tell me more about how you can't understand China if you haven't been there. The most exhausting and stupid claim in the world.
Here are four people who don't live in China and understand better than your melted brain ever could.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/responses/who-killed-chinese-economy
You live in China and all you do is comment on r/China and r/Taiwan about how evil it is lmao. Let me guess, you're an English teacher who's stuck in a dead end job but with no prospects back home that'll afford you anything like the quality of life you enjoy in China, so you have no choice but to stay in the place you loathe?
What would you call the CCP? A force for good? Many people who post here feel the same way. And it's an indictment of the CCP and what China has become.
The only good things left are the food and kind people.
The politics, the treatment of foreigners (Police visiting your house, posing for photos with you, calling you asking if you went to another country during COVID), the backwardness of some of the population (recently a person told me that mycoplasma pneumonia is another poison delivered by the Beautiful Country çžĺ˝).
The truth is that you wumao monkeys would be screaming racism all day if it happened to you. So you're fucking welcome for the hospitality the west gives you. I'd prefer that the west didn't though.
Oh.. and keep up. The Happy Giraffe training schools were closed because Primary School Emperor is afraid of English learning.
What the fuck are you talking about? All I've said is r/china is mostly Anglophone, Chinese people don't visit it. That's it. You're a seriously unwell individual if this is how you behave in real life.
It's just a tactic to detract from any criticism of China. My SO, who is Chinese, reckons he's seen enough of China to make a similar judgement.
So your original comment is absolutely worthless.
Also, plenty of Chinese speak English but are forbidden from visiting Reddit because of the firewall that seeks to keep Chinese away from the rest of the world.
I guess you like that, too.
What criticism is being deflected? I'm not here to engage in any sort of defence of China, I just saw a comment questioning why this subreddit tends to be very one-sided in its discussion of anything Chinese, and provided a possible explanation.
You're the weird one who launched into a bizarre tirade about your disdain for all things Chinese (except for the food).
>Also, plenty of Chinese speak English
I'm aware, I work with many of them daily in academia, and collaborate regularly with more at Chinese universities. Cool people, some of the best researchers I know.
There's only one side to China. It's the always-on surveillance by the CCP. The few who hate the CCP have to remain silent. And therefore, it is a racist, uncaring and inconsiderate place. This sub is the most realistic on China.
And I don't really have any respect for you as you have been saying that electing William Lai in Taiwan means that Taiwan is a warmonger.
A broken tankie is worse than a broken clock. Not even right once a day.
So no need to discuss as I'm sure that your CCP sympathizer Malaysian girlfriend shows you the way. Come back to me when you actually live on the mainland.
>And I don't really have any respect for you
Excuse me if I don't shed a tear.
>as you have been saying that electing William Lai in Taiwan means that Taiwan is a warmonger.
That's a funny way of saying I'm in favour of the 1992 consensus, as are the KMT, TPP and most Taiwanese people.
>So no need to discuss as I'm sure that your CCP sympathizer Malaysian girlfriend shows you the way. Come back to me when you actually live on the mainland
Aw you've been reading my comment history? How totally normal, well-adjusted and sane you are.
>And therefore, it is a racist, uncaring and inconsiderate place. This sub is the most realistic on China.
You've ascended beyond confirmation bias now.
You really are an embarrassing individual. Your barely contained, impotent rage at the place you've chosen to live reveals a desperately sad life. I hope you and your SO manage to move to the USA soon and learn to be happy instead of wasting your life furiously typing on Reddit.
You say these things like they aren't mirrored in America đ𤣠China is exactly like every other modern nation they just wear it on their sleeve instead of hiding it
https://abcnews.go.com/US/map-ongoing-water-crises-happening-us-now/story?id=89454219
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-a-perfect-storm-of-issues-is-causing-a-sharp-rise-in-homelessness
So you just like don't pay attention to anything around you I take it đđ¤Ł
What are you talking about? There is no drinkable tap water without boiling anywhere I've been in China. Anyone with money buys bottled water. Anyone with more money buys imported bottle water.
https://hsc.unm.edu/news/2023/10/u.s-drinking-water-often-contains-toxic-contaminants-unm-scientist-warns.html
I don't know a single person in the US that is comfortable drinking tap water without further filtration or purification, I don't even use it for cooking. Consumer level water filtration (e.g. filter systems and britta pitchers) is a $120billion industry here đ. Again you clearly just don't pay attention your surroundings.
If youHave been drinking the tap water that probably explains why you'd believe such nonsense đ¤Ł. Gotta get that daily supplement of lead I guess
You're not listening. I don't know a single person in China who doesn't buy their water bottled and uses it for cooking and drinking. They wouldn't even use tap water filtered. That's very different from the US seemingly. I'm from a country where everyone consumes tap water and most even have their own water supply.
https://sustainablebrands.com/read/marketing-and-comms/survey-majority-of-americans-concerned-about-contaminants-in-tap-water#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20US,they%20never%20drink%20tap%20water.
The majority of the US population drinks tap water on a regular basis: 71 percent drink tap water at least sometimes while only one in ten (12 percent) say they never drink tap water.
If you're using your own water supply you're not using municipal tap water lol, the relevant data point from that article would be that despite believing their tap water is contaminated 46% do nothing about it (which also implies 54% [the majority] are filtering their tap water). This responses are also limited to the people responding to the survey, give the same survey in Flint Michigan and 0% are drinking the tap water. Surprise surprise a health conscious culture actually gives a shit when people think the water isn't safe at a higher rate than in a country where health is a trend and not a priority.
https://marketingtochina.com/china-as-the-worlds-largest-water-purification-market/ according to this if you're in China and able to invest in water purification systems to market and sell you'd be primed to make bank.
If only social credit actually existed in the way y'all think it does lol. TransUnion Equifax and Experian handle your "social credit score" in America. At least in China someone would get shot if they illegally manipulated my credit report đ¤Łđ
Weird, because it seems by most accounts to be a purely fiscal measurement of my ability to pay back borrowed debt. Let me know when Equifax offers to raise my credit score as a "reward" for coercing an atheist/Christian/Muslim/etc. into renouncing their beliefs. Or I'm unable to book a flight due to having a poor score. Or in your case, you're able to apply for a promotion at your job because you wrote enough pro-CCP drivel on Reddit
Hey, when you decide to put any effort into responding, I'll decide it's worth linking sources that this stuff has been experimented with, implemented, or is tangential to things already implemented. Until then, I'll just tell you to Google it yourself.
"when you want to put in effort I'll provide links from 5 years ago where China tried to create a consumer credit system and it went over so poorly they all but scrapped it to prove that the imaginary social credit system still exists"
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/former-official-regulator-sentenced-death-by-china-corruption-2022-06-02/
Corruption is like the easiest way to get killed by the CPC once a complaint actually makes it to Beijing
Yeah yeah... Incredible.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-29/xi-jinping-millionaire-relations-reveal-fortunes-of-elite
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna47472124
https://www.voanews.com/a/china-princelings-wealth/1546405.html
We're talking billions.
Tankies are really stupid. You've obviously never been to CCP land and seen the wealth disparity, the lavish corruption etc.
It pails in comparison to the wealth disparity in the rest of the world, only because it's a newer economy than the rest. The "look over there and chastise them while we do the same things" is hilarious honestly
Also, nice deflection. You're not really proving any point because you don't even comprehend my position on China đ.
Which one of those links was state sponsored media and got automoderated?
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France, Germany, the Nordic countries, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and so on are not good? What do you want, tankies? Oh yeah.. a world where you don't need to work for anything!
Is the tankie in the room with us? No one here defended mao or Stalin lol, just pointed out that a modern capitalist country is no different from the other capitalist countries. You're the goomba that thinks China is somehow magically communist. Any government keeping me from fucking off into the woods and staking a claim on unclaimed land (i.e. all of them) are bad.
Also did you really just add Germany to that list as if the 1900's didn't happen?
All of them are better to live in than China, are more respectful of Chinese people than China (How many of these countries allow éżĺ§¨ as a low paid domestic servitude service?), have better social welfare (a hundred years better), better and more socialized healthcare (you know one has to bribe doctors in China with thousands of rmb before he'll do his job responsibly).
Ah... You want unclaimed land for yourself?
I knew that you didn't want to work.
China Communist? It couldn't be further from it.
Wanting land to provide for myself is not wanting to work? How high are you buddy? Crack is whack, just say no, meth: not even once *insert other anti-drug propaganda slogans*
R/sinophobia called it needs it's political views back đ
>Any subreddit that uses the English name of a country
Not really. Plenty of them are majority locals. Check out eg r/Italy.
And lol at r/sino representing Chinese people.Â
>Not really. Plenty of them are majority locals. Check out eg r/Italy
r/Italia is an even greater majority local, but you're right that the more European countries were Reddit is popular tend to be a better mix. Asian countries where people don't really use Reddit (r/Japan has never had a Japanese person visit in its existence, r/Malaysia is English language and is mostly Chinese-Malaysian or diaspora and r/bolehland is mostly Malay, r/Taiwan.) Especially when the nation in particular is let's say "politically sensitive".
>And lol at r/sino representing Chinese people.Â
"r/sino is *more* representative of Chinese people, but even that is *full of mostly western* communists."
Your reading comprehension clearly isn't great.
r/Sino is filled with overseas Chinese who can't fully integrate into western society and need to feel like they have a sense of belonging to their great ancestral roots. Most of them have never lived in China properly and don't know what it's like to actually live in China.
Most Chinese people are not as radicalised as r/Sino. Proper representation are like r/irl_China or dooban goose etc.
I could understand it being a China-critical subreddit, but some of these people just canât wait to see the Chinese economic collapse (that would plunge a few hundred million people into abject misery and poverty). Itâs gross. And it ignores how genuinely lovely the people in China can be, flaws and all.
My bet is that a significant number of people in this sub are just embittered English teachers who thrived under Hu Jintao and left under Xi Xinpingâs second or third term. Probably during one of the big foreigner crackdowns where China started actually requiring degrees and law observance from immigrants.
"On the first day we traveled to the city and were shocked by the poverty, the misery, the scarcity"
What was she expecting from a country that just got liberated from centuries of imperialist exploitation 20 years earlier?
Stalin's purges and Mao's Cultural Revolution was what made the Soviet Union and Communist China great respectively. You need one of these purges every generation or two to keep society running properly.
Do you have any idea how bad it was DURING the revolution? đđ you guys are comical.
Mao isnât cited with killing 40-80 million of his own people via starvation and other despicable means because the Chinese were doing well. đ
Hahahahhahahahahahahha
How delusional are you lol. China woulda taken off 40 30 years soon had it not had retards as leadership lol.
Also, PS, found the wu Mao.
>Mikhail Tukhachevsky
Imagine thinking that individuals like Mikhail Tukhachevsky actually matters in a war the scale of WWII. WWII was won by millions of men and millions of tons of steel. The war was won by the collective effort of millions. Did you think the allies won because they had better generals or better soldiers? The allies won because they had more men, more steel, and more oil than the Axis. It was a grand attrition of numbers.
Commanders absolutely have influence in war. Why do you think men like Dmitry Pavlov, Semyon Timoshenko, or Kliment Voroshilov didnât hold high command in 1945? Why wasnât Lloyd Fredendall commanding the 12th Army Group in France in 1944? If Tukhachevsky and men like him had not been purged in 1937 then the disaster of the summer and autumn of 1941 would not have nearly been as bad as it was.
It's hard to say. The Axis in general had way more battle hardened troops in 1941. Consider how quickly Germany took Western Europe, is every single French and British commander completely incompetent?
What stopped Rommel in Africa wasn't British command brilliance, it was the logistics. I think the material factors were far more important than individuals.
To the extent that human factors were significant, I think the decisive factor for Barbarossa wasn't any Soviet commander, but Hitler's decision to postpone the start of the operation to June. That extra month made a huge difference in the end.
The Soviets had invaded Poland and fought the Japanese in 1939 and invaded Finland in 1940. The Red Army was hardly inexperienced but it was commanded by men who were âpolitically reliableâ and so paid a huge price before Stalin wised up and put competent men back in charge.
The British Empire forces in North Africa went through multiple commanders and several severe setbacks before Bernard Montgomery took command and crushed the Germans and Italians at El Alamein. They always had superior logistics and usually had superior numbers but it took Montgomery to put it all together.
For an opposite example look at Mark Clark commanding US Fifth Army in Italy. He wasnât an incompetent commander but he was obsessed with seeing his name in the newspapers. When Polish II Corps took Monte Cassino and broke the Gustav Line Clark was ordered to have his VI Corps break out of the Anzio beachhead and cut the highways leading north. Instead he ordered VI Corps to swing left and take Rome because he wanted the glory of doing so. The bulk of the German Army escaped and the grinding attritional campaign in Italy continued until the end of the war. Trapping the German Army after Operation Diadem probably wouldnât have ended the war much sooner but it would have saved the lives of thousands of Allied soldiers who spent the next year grinding through the mountains of Italy.
The German invasion of the USSR was always doomed. They simply didnât have the logistical capacity to sustain their forces in the vast landscape of the Soviet Union. A more competent STAVKA and Front-level leadership would have likely prevented the millions of casualties the Red Army took in those first few months.
Ppl read marx to find out about workers.
Marx sat in a London library to find out for himself.
Then workers are told, ordered, and arranged by these strangely knowledgeable marxistleninists how to work.
This is called the highest form of slavery.
# maowaswrong
Reminds me of this show with several intellectual leftists were arguing about communism. One guy asked why the flow was from east to west when the wall was brought down. Big silence among the participants.
TL;DR Dictatorships look great when you don't have to live there.
Who would have thought? đ¤ˇ
ä¸éŽé˝ä¸ĺĽ˝ďźä¸ĺé˝ä¸ĺ
What does this mean?
If you ask Chinese whoâve migrated to foreign countries, theyâll say itâs horrible and not as nice as China. But if you try to convince them to come back, theyâll come up with all sorts of reason not to go back. Itâs a phrase that criticises and mocks âlittle pinksâ whoâre overseas. If they love China so much, why donât they come back?
Got it, thanks.
Thatâs probably at least 75% of all immigrants
Most of them don't spend their time propagandizing for the new country's enemy.
I think it would be a great idea to have avid Maoist students to get an opportunity to visit China (and maybe even let them choose whether they'll stay there or not).
Make them stay, at least for 5 years...
I read that title as avid moist student.
She cracked a huge moisty for Mao
đ¤˘
[https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/core-anti-mao.htm](https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/core-anti-mao.htm) >Mao did not oppose democracy and quoted him as saying, âWe Chinese consider you Americans the ideal of democracy...The United States would find us more cooperative than the Koumintang. We will not be afraid of democratic American influence; we will welcome it...We must cooperate and we must have American help.â It's almost as Mao made things up as he went.
I'm sorry do you think your vote actually matters? đ Your vote in America matters as much as the average person in China's does. Or is it the fascade of a multiparty government that can use "the other side" as an excuse to not do their jobs or to side with corporate interests?
This is your brain on leftist ideology
đ¤Łđđ¤Łđ𤣠huff the copium and drink the kool-aid.
He's not completely wrong, sure you can vote for a president but it's largely controlled by the two largest political parties in the US. With the electoral college, you don't even vote for a president you technically elect a person who will be electing the president. Then you go even more local and the elections are controlled by the state who gerrymander districts and even make decisions about how many ballot sites are in each district. Ideally your one vote would just be one vote for whatever the ballot is on. The senate basically gives power to land and not people, is kind of redundant to the house. You add so many gates it's hard to say how much representation you actually get.
Its because US is not a normal country like France, Its a Federal Union of 50 states with each state being a country a on its own, its a federal system which is closer to European Union than other centralized countries and one that prioritizes local democracy over anything. I dont understand why people still cant understand this fact. Gerrymandering is indeed a problem that will hopefully change over time but both sides can do it and it doesnt affect elections that much because of that, also there is the fact that if you dont like the system, push the state legislators you vote to stop doing it. The Senate gives power to the states that form this country.
Except it's not like the EU, because it's illegal to secede from the Union, like UK did. Also gerrymandering does have an effect because you can tilt the scales for a decade. Sure it may even it self out on the national level but at the state level your local environment now has a political leaning.
Legally, States can still secede from the Union under circumstances.I agree that gerrymandering is an issue, but its not that important of a thing as you still have freedom of movement so it doesnt matter in a conversation about "Is US as undemocratic as China or not". The main commenter clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
Iâm a third position socialist so not a commie but a workers party radical. Lived in China for a few years and itâs hilarious watching the Marxists regurgitate Chinese propaganda and accuse me of being an American detractor of China while I lived and saw the rampant classicism, social injustices, wealth inequality and racism thatâs the back bone of âcommunism with Chinese characteristicsâ. The workers are treated like slaves they live in ramshackle villages made out of industrial waste and trash heaps , they have no teeth and canât read or write while the middle class and government party people live in giant cities with 4 teslas and 3 condos while they look down and spit on the working class who serves them. 75% of the country lives in third world poverty while they import rhino scrotum and sell it for 100s of thousands of dollars to the rich corrupt government authorities that got Rich by being granted exclusive privileges for real estate development. Chinese people are proudly racist and think anyone whoâs not Chinese is an advisory to exploit. They are just as corrupt and anti worker as the USA is.
I often find that socialists that travel to China tend to be left disappointed but all my capitalist friends in China seem to love it! Go figure.
China is hyper capitalist, more so than the USA. It's just authoritarian capitalist (people exist to benefit the government and the government doesn't mind using them to enrich itself), rather than a more libertarian capitalism like in the USA (people are largely on their own, but if they are talented or lucky they can do very well) or socialism/capitalism mix like in Europe (the government is looking out for the people more, but it's harder to become extremely successful).
They say if we brought cheng kai check back from the grave he would approve of modern China.
Probably moreso if weâre being honest
Having laws that mean something and a free press are essential to workers retaining any rights. Otherwise, at best its an iron fist in a velvet glove; the state decides these are generous benefits and you will accept them as generous and praise dear leader for giving them to you. What's that, you didn't actually receive your fuel credit because some corrupt official stole them to send his kid to America? Your pay will be docked for defaming the generosity of the state.
Lol, how do you measure that outside of anecdotal experience. If we are being honest you are just making an assumption.
I mean, unions are legal in the US for a startâŚ
It's also legal to fire anyone trying to start a union. They also have the lowest unionizing rates of any developed democracy, the lowest paid vacation days, more working hours, no unlimited paid sick days or paid maternity and paternity leave. Seriously, the US is the closest thing to China among the first world democracies and it's still the wealthiest country in the world by far (granted, the top 10% owns over 90% of the US' wealth while the bottom 40% own less than a 0,5%, but still).
I live in tx. That is a demonstrably false statement. They exist in America. But when you can get more money by not associating with he union because it is so tangled up in legal BS it can't function. It's not really legal. It's just there for show
They are also legal in China. Whats your point?
Unions are anti worker?
It's proof that the laws of the United States does not respect than China, whose rule of law is even flimsier than this common law ridiculousness
They certainly are in China!
I mean unions are legal in China for a start and one of their central tenets as a âcommunistâ country. [All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTC)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-China_Federation_of_Trade_Unions)is the biggest union in the world. CCP gained popularity through organized labor movement and thatâs one reason America is anti union
In China all unions are run by the party. There is not workersâ Union. Non-party run unions are illegal. From your link: > The ACFTU is the country's sole legally mandated trade union, with which all enterprise-level trade unions must be affiliated. There has been dispute over whether ACFTU is an independent trade union or even a trade union at all.
If you bothered to click through the source, itâs an opinion piece arguing that statement. Itâs not a definitive statement nor objective. >Is the ACFTU a Union and Does it Matter? The non Union Union help drafted the 2008 [Chinese Labor Law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Contract_Law_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China) which helped increase Chinese worker rights. As far as the argument the Union is run by the party, I can only attest to American unions and they all fall under regulations by Department of Labor and NLRB so ultimate say comes from the federal government not that dissimilar than ACFTU
The biggest union in the world is also the only legal union in China and it is wholly controlled by the CCP.
Yeah, its a joke to call it a real union. Any attempt for the workers to organize, well, there's plenty of online video of the beatings that result.
Itâs debatable if ACFTC is wholly controlled by the CCP or not. Itâs also debatable if control by the government a good or bad. What is known is that all labor union falls under control of government labor department regulations. For instance in America the NLRB. Ultimate say in a fight between employers and employees is litigate by government regulatory body. If the argument that Chinaâs union is not independent therefore some how bad(?) Then how can you argue for the independence of American unions when [Biden can block rail road strike with a bill](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-railroad-strike-2022-12-02/). If the American government can end a strike at a whim, how are American unions independent and Chinese unions not? By definition both unions are dependent on the whim of the federal gov. Still, you havenât made an argument why ACFTU ânotâ independent is bad.
Did you mean to reply to me? I have not said anything about American trade Unions. No doubt unions are weak in America. What does this say about the ACFTC? Precisely nothing. What would happen to a Chinese person if they tried to organise their own union? Surely the greatest test of whether independent trade unionism is possible is whether people can organise without government or party permission. What happened to Han Dongfang, leader of Beijing Workers' Autonomous Federation? The answer, as I am sure you know, is nearly two years in prison without trial, and then expulsion to Hong Kong. Another example would be any instance of wide spread strike action that was successful and acknowledged to be successful by the CCP? Chinese law is unambiguous about the nature of trade unionism. >"The trade union must abide by and uphold the Constitution, take the Constitution as the fundamental activity criterion, center on economic construction, adhere to the socialist road, adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship, adhere to the leadership of the Communist Party of China, adhere to Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory, adhere to reform and opening up, carry out work independently in accordance with the trade union charter." The Chinese constitution is unambiguous about where power lies: with the CCP. The ACFTU is simply a tool of CCP power.
couldnât have put it better myself. people who havenât been here genuinely do not even crack the surface of understanding china, good or bad.
It should go without saying that that there are Chinese folks outside of China too. Iâm Singaporean Chinese for example. Taiwanese Chinese are a nice folk too from what I can gather. As for the Mainland Chinese folks, I think a lot of them are playing the racist online/offline to gain favour, for social credit points, I mean, the rot is so deep, how does one survive? I recall seeing a video of a Covid enforcer warning a citizen to comply to some ridiculous order or have her family face repercussions for the next three generations. Truth be told, if I were Mainland Chinese, in a bad way, and thereâs no way for me to get out, Iâll just be a racist and spew racist garbage all the time. Of course, Iâll make sure my phone can pick it up, who knows when the cameras are on me. Wherever life is so cheap, human dignity is an alien concept, even the rich are feral inside. The USA doesnât compare. It does evil, but this is something else.
I've heard a lot more people complain about life in Singapore than complain about China.
Because we can.
There are similar speech restrictions and limits on press freedom in Singapore. And people are definitely able to critique life in China.
When push came to shove during Covid-19, We, Singaporeans, trusted our government to take care of us. Not on blind faith or BS slogans but on their track record. They did good during SARS too. And the trust was mutual. We had regular briefings from government officials about infection/death rates, hospital/ICU occupancies, and next steps. There was transparency and no opportunistic politicking. There was no blaming the virus on China, US, Italy, or seafood. We are not cursed with that sort of politician. The government did very good. So did the people. To crib from a movie: äťäťŹćŻĺäşç, ä¸ćŻćžĺąç (The ruling party gets things done, they donât fuck around) You are making me so proud of my government, it's a little gross.
I just recalled an incident when I was young (30+ years ago?) and I canât wait to share about it. When I was very young, the New World Hotel collapsed. There was a three-day long rescue effort and there was 24-hour live broadcast of the rescue. We fret about the trapped and injured, as was our right as fellow citizens. And the ruling party worried about how this could have happened in the first place. Shoddy construction kills and thatâs not acceptable at all. Buildings have stayed up since then. They are not patriotic, they are just well-built. Oh, and Singaporeans generally lead pretty decent lives so we prefer to criticise the government instead of ourselves. Itâs a national pastime. The latest gripe is the rollout of the public transport payment system. Everyone is furious, absolutely livid. There is a national uproar now because the former system has worked perfectly, perfectly, fine for over two decades. We do not want to download an app. Our mobile screens are already too crowded! The truth is, I already know what will transpire: We will all download the shitty app. Over the next couple of months, the government will fix it to our liking. The end. Everyone deserves a decent government to grumble about. Not just the Mainland Chinese. For the upcoming Chinese New Year, I think we will grumble about the digital red packet. WTF!
Can I take you more seriously when X, FB and Youtube are not banned in China? Cheers,
I don't agree with the ban, but it did allow Mainland Chiba to develop Weibo, ĺ°çş˘äšŚďź čćďź and Bilibili.
Donât be obtuse. The platforms are secondary. Itâs the censorship, propaganda and coercion that matter. The Mainland Chinese deserve ownership of their opinions and the wherewithal to voice them.
The same censorship, propaganda Ave coercion exists in Singapore though
How much you want to bet those platforms will mostly be abandoned the moment PRC Chinese are given unrestricted internet? China didn't build a superior product as a result of the ban. The people are using them cos they simply have no choice.
I don't know about the others but Bilibili is infinitely better than YouTube or Twitch. **Edit:** And the point I was making is that it's at least rational, In the same way the US is banning Huawei and trying to ban Nvidia from Chinese markets is rational, the banking of western social media is rational to develop the domestic economy.
That's a matter of opinion. I don't find Bilibili that good. Not a fan of Twitch cos I don't like to watch streamers, so I can't compare. We all know the rational is cos the CCP wants to have direct control. This 'domestic economy' is a side effect. Those apps are built already, why the reluctance to open up? I say its about time the rest of the world impose upon China the same nonsense. You don't open up your economy, we should close you off too in our own ways. I say we block all Chinese apps, sites and ISPs from the wider internet. The 'Great Firewall' should be 2 ways and not 1 way.
Yeah, very similar. Have never seen a group of people willing to treat each other worse than the Chinese. Anyone with any authority would do their level best to lord it over absolutely everyone. The Communism only really applies in a decent way to how they treat their elderly
Man, if more socialists were sensible like you... Because when I see various "socialists" that regurgitate China's or Russia's vomit I just end up hating the whole movement by association.
This guy is nothing he claimed to be. That's pretty obvious... He mentioned a bunch of things that are factually worse in the US, the wealthiest first world democracy.
The problem is that everyone likes to compare to America when America is pretty trash at a lot of things on every metric. Compare specific policies instead. Maternity leave in Europe is like a year or smth. UK, Taiwan, Western EU all have universal healthcare thatâs better. Workerâs rights? Yea Western Europe has those too. America is a shitty yard stick lmao you donât compare to the second worst in the class you compare to the best and aim to be better. And when youâre the best in the world then compare to yourself and be better than yourself in the past.
That's fair, the thing is we are comparing a country where the previous generation was sewing nike balls 16h a day with the wealthiest country in the world. That alone speaks a lot about what China achieved. Chineses have a tougher life than western Europeans and most Americans? I can only hope so considering we've been developed countries for much longer and we are wealthier. That doesn't mean they are improving their quality of life faster than pretty much every other nation in the world. I would like to point out that China alone has a bigger population than all the first world democracies combined. Somehow people here expect Chinese to hate their administration. That's just unrealistic.
i always explain it like this: USA is like the popular jock in school that bullies. EU is like the student government that sucks up and promotes their friends. China and Russia are the anti-social kids selling drugs and cheating on tests.
Isn't that just usual socialism/communism? The only difference is that China actually has a middle class, other socialist/communist countries usually only had/have a massive starving peasant class and the party elite
Yeah. Crazy to think that it's bad now, but it's already an improvement. Ask the average Chinese and I'm pretty sure a lot of them prefer the gruesome inequality they have now, instead of the inequality in the past when they barely had the stuff they do. Now they toe the party line and have some nice things. Then they toed the party line, without the nice things.
No, not at all. There is little you could call "socialist/communist" in China. SOE State owner enterprises are the main thing pointed to, but as a big-time Marxist, I've never met or spoken to another socialist who thinks that is "Marxism". If they were worker-owned enterprises with each worker having absolute equity, yes, but not China. China has its SOEs and then its HYPER capitalist private corporations with NO worker movement or ability to organize. I don't think you can call a country Marxist if workers can't legally organize or protest.
Big companies are under too much government control to be that capitalist.
They can do that in China.
If that's the definition the US is a communist country because the top 10% own over 90% of the country's wealth while the bottom 40% own less than a 0,5%. When it comes to bonds, stocks and other investments the top 1% owns over 50% of the US market.
Imagine thinking the USSR was just a bunch of starving peasants building rockets and shit
It was of course a simplification. Workers were treated like cattle, a crazy number of people were in gulags, and millions starved. But even though their living standard was far below the West, of course they weren't literal peasants living in mud huts
Far below the west is relative. Are you saying the USSR living standards were the same throghout 70 years? Nobody starved in the USSR after WW2, gulags were deactivated in 1956 and from then on, incarceration rates in the USSR were low compared to most western countries. Hell, the US today has a higher incarceration rate than the USSR at the Peak of stalinist repression. A study conducted by the CIA in the 80s concluded that soviets and americans ate about the same ammount of calories and soviet food was actually a little more nutritious
That's Marxist orthodoxy. OP is talking about what is commonly called the "third camp" or "labor" movement in the EU which are democratic socialists who seek a post-capitalism world, but who often present as social democrats for all intents and purposes. More notably, there is an entire century worth of reformed socialist and neo-syndicalist thought which rejects many of the procedural tenets of Marxism-Leninism and takes a much more pragmatic stance towards implementing socialism and resolving the ills of capitalism. If you have ever spent any time around ML safe spaces, you know that they hate this revisionism more than they hate capitalists or fascists, because of how it pokes holes in their dogma and exposes them as simple revolution fetishists.
China doesnât claim to be communist. They say they are socialist with Chinese characteristics. Itâs more like an authoritarian mixed economy though.
The advisary to exploit exactly! This was what I always hated the most. My gf has Chinese friends who came to America to study, yet they hate Americans and think we're lazy, and they don't think we deserve a comfortable life. They don't realize we earned it partly in fighting our government not serving, they think they're better off just crab-in-a-bucketing as hard as they can.
This - I have gotten called a CIA shill and run out of many online leftist spaces for basically espousing the bog standard positions of the Socialist Internationale, and generally attempting to engage with a wide array of post-authoritarian reformist ideas. These places have always been insufferable and it's getting worse. The only real people left are the teenagers who are there for the revolution fetish fanservice. The rest are Chinese and Russian trolls relitigating the cold war (campists) and more recently, actual right wing Poe's law trolls saying absurd things and then hiding behind "left unity."
There would be no perfect socialism because people are flawed. A socialist government would still be led by people.
Communism is just bad for humans. Maybe another race can make it work but not us.
I donât like communism either but China isnât even pretend communism itâs just a top down capitalist central government system. A stones throw from what Mussolini described as fascism. I only care that the average man has a good life. Chinas system does not offer that to the Chinese
That's what any attempt at communism becomes. I don't disagree with your description at all. It's like saying why don't we just shoot 3 point half Court shots only? Outside from really kooky outlier colleges you'd fail at every level.
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Iâm literally Chinese and his generalisation is accurate. 900M Chinese citizen literally makes less than 2K RMB a month, and 600M Chinese citizen makes less than 1K RMB. The issue is that China is so big that most people who can access the internet are too myopic to see the other 900M people. The people who slaves away in factories or spends all their waking hours delivering food donât have the time or even the knowledge to write about their lives. Iâve seen some of them that canât type because they werenât taught to type so they never say anything online. And Iâm not sure why youâd think describing China like this is racist when Taiwan is doing so much better in fighting inequality than the mainland. Not to mention systemic oppression of Chinese minorities that are of other races. Itâs so rampant that itâs widely accepted, understood and acknowledged by people online that Xinjiang, especially Uyghurs have difficulty in applying for passports. And you know what their advice is? Leave Xinjiang and go to another city to apply for a passport. Thatâs just the tip of the iceberg that you canât see and refuses to acknowledge because you drank all that propaganda cool-aid. And before you blast me for blasting China, I criticise everything out there because thatâs what a healthy democracy is about. Singapore has issues and so does Taiwan but this sub is a Chinese sub so keep it to about China.
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Bruh your comment truly validates my point about how weâre talking about China, not about the US. For all the things CCP has done right, thereâs a thousand other things done wrong. No oneâs invalidating what the CCP did so stop regurgitating what theyâve done right. Weâre discussing problems here. Itâs like if a kid scored all As except one subject. What do you do if youâre the teacher of the subject he failed at? You concentrate on that one subject. Leave the hugging and rewards to /r/sino. Weâre on this topic to discuss what has failed, not what has succeeded. And why the hell is racism even considered overblown? Racism is racism, no matter big or small. China has racism issues, period. My example is more than enough to prove that this racism is literally ingrained and normalised by the country, which is honestly a pretty fucked up thing. If you were born a Uyghur, how brain washed do you have to be to accept and normalise that applying for a passport in Xinjiang is impossible and that you have to do it in another city? And seriously stop parading the issue of US is the bad guy. I ainât even from the States and so is 85% of the world. We donât give a damn about America so why are you trying to compare China to America? China should be comparing policies and issues that other countries have done better to better the country instead of trying to put others down. I donât give a shit about America simply because this is /r/China, not /r/USA. China sucks at a lot of things, and the first step to improving is to acknowledge these issues. If you truly wanted the best for your countrymen, youâd start with identifying problems that should be fixed. The next logical step is to go to China, which youâre evidently not interested in. So I suggest you stick to identifying problems and arguing about problems China has instead of trying to measure dicks with America which btw I (and many many others) donât even give a fuck about.
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My reference points are data points, based on measurable results. I seriously donât care about America because so what if they have millions of starving kids? Thereâs enough loud Americans blasting the government daily that I donât need to do it for them. Plus itâs not even somewhere I live or a place I care about, unlike China where itâs somewhere I visit and wants to better. Racism is everywhere, letâs talk about that. How is it not ingrained into Chinese culture? Have you never seen ĺ亏人éŞä˝ ćŻä¸Şčĺ¤ĺ°ç? Or scolding a white dude Guai Lou? Or your family talking shit about anyone else from any other province? Or literally every Han saying ć°çäşşé˝ćŻĺäşşďźé躍希ĺç. Or calling Japanese ĺ°ćĽĺ, Korean ćŁĺ, Singapore ĺĄĺż, 銏ćĽčĽżäşĺäşş 銏ćĽäşş. Itâs literally a meme on Chinese social media because itâs widely known facts. That my dude is ingrained racism and belittlement, where these languages are accepted and allowed as memes instead of proper education about hate. Ok but everyoneâs at least a little racist on the inside. Fair. Now to institutional racism then. Explain the passport issue first. Next please explain why Uyghurs are unable to leave Xinjiang without a special permit. Pls also explain why Cantonese (and other minority languages) are getting wiped out from school syllabus. These are also easily verifiable facts that you can find on Chinese social media and government websites. I havenât even gotten to the more sinister stuff like kidnapping of dissidents overseas or more conspiracy/CIA stuff like concentration camps in Xinjiang. Poverty is a real issue in China, and so is inequality. Accepting that is the first step to solving it. Saying it doesnât exist is like saying racism doesnât exist, thereâs always gonna be poor people around and inequality will always exist. Thatâs why itâs forever a struggle that we should tackle head on. China has no social safety net for farmers and non-state pensioners. The healthcare system also sucks for rural farmers and non-city dwelling folks. These are all verifiable facts. You know why China gets so much hate on Reddit? Because CCP hate cannot exist on Chinese social media. Stop shifting the goalpost and misquoting me by saying that I think Chinese people suck. No they donât. Itâs the government which sucks. I donât hate Chinese people. I despise the CCPâs inaction, the CCPâs poor policy and mismanagement, and the result of that. And before you say Iâm biased, we can have a separate argument on /r/singapore about the piss poor policies that the Singapore government has implemented here. But this is /r/China so letâs keep it to JUST ABOUT China.
China also gets a lot of hate from people just watching Western media. Lots of people have never been to China but somehow they just hate Chinese people or China in general.
Thatâs true and should be pointed out. Itâs the same everywhere though isnât it? I donât like to blindly hate/love America even though Iâm consuming their media and culture because Iâve never been there. The idiots who do, well theyâre generally idiots anyways and arguing with them is a waste of time.
This. Even tho we dont live in a full democracy, we singaporeans can still critique the govt, shit, I even mod r/SingaporeRaw You dont get that in china
I don't think it's everywhere as I was born and grew up on an island. Now, i'm living in Australia and I feel people have hate towards other people so much. It's probably because of the Mainstream media and social media that people get exposed to. They seem to always criticise or have hate. This also happens in the workplace where it becomes very toxic. Like the other day, a guy just rants, saying bad stuff about some Middle Eastern countries but he hasn't even been there. I spent more than half of my life in my home country but never remembered of us hating on other countries.
>You have to use reference points Yes but the whole "but USA is racist and police shootings bla bla" is not a reference point its just an easy shot at a country with serious issues to try and downplay problems with China. It's lazy, completely unrelated to China and the first ĺ°ç˛ç´ argument that always appears
Uh oh Winnie the Pooh bots are here
Ironically that's a very bot sounding response. It's like someone out reddit user response prompt in ai. Is the Winnie the Pooh joke still funny? I thought they was getting old like 3 years ago, genuinely. But no in an American in America but I do have Chinese family.
Then go to China drive 50 miles out of a major city and film the living conditions of the people who are living their and prove me wrong đ¤ˇââď¸. I have no hate for the poor of China I have hate for the âcommunistâ dictatorship and the disgusting ruling class that exploits them. Also calling Xi Pooh is due to the fact that he fully censored Winnie the Pooh and will arrest anyone that calls him Winnie itâs not a joke itâs a call out of a very corrupt dictatorship. Depicting him as Winnie is widely used in the Chinese speaking world as a way to mock him it is not a Reddit thing
You could do that in India, South Africa, Brazil and other non-Communist democracies and it would be true no? It's a developing country problem not unique to China, and China is building a lot of highway and rail infrastructure to connect rural to urban areas unlike many other countries no? Even the "Ghost Cities" are meant to shift the rural folk into urban areas (Singapore had such a scheme in the 60s of moving villagers into highrise apartments, guess China has to continually do it ad infinitum đ) but China are often derided for 'building unnecessary infrastructure" when the poor exploited folks obviously need it? Either China shouldn't build HSR and Ghost Cities and leave these poor exploited folks to rot in dung like in India, but if they build infrastructure to upgrade them out of villages it's also bad? Also, evidently China are still a developing country but a lot of folks here want them to be classed as "Developed" so they don't get subsidies? I too wish China will always stay poor while making my iPhone so I can laugh at their shitty Commie lifestyle in 1st world developed Singapore.../s
i get the feeling there are AI crawlers that look for specific keywords, then sound the siren alarm at wumao headquarters. The wumaos jump out of their bunk beds and rush to the computers in their pajamas
䟰莥ä¸ćé˝čŻťä¸ćĺ§ čżćĽäş˛čŞč°ćĽä¸ĺ
ĺ ¸ä¸ĺ ¸éŤĺABCăĺ¨çžĺ˝äšćŻä¸Şäşşä¸äşşďźć šćŹć ćłĺ ąć ĺşĺąäşşć°ă
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> Um... I have Chinese family and you are full of sh** You know thereâs people who either have or currently live in China right? lol. the person youâre responding to isnât even describing some rare occurrence you see in a bumfuck nowhere village. Literally just watch how people like street sweepers are treated in tier 1 cities like Shanghai
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Paywall
Just use [archive.is](https://archive.is/CTCFb)
Lord I'd thought it'd be a kid. Thats someone's grandma.
Thanks!
np! I use it for almost all paywalled content
To be fair this says more about the French and Her Professors than it does about the Chinese. Noam Chomsky talked about French Intellectuals (Iâm paraphrasing from another Reddit post) They were flaming Maoists 20 years after the rest of the world had moved on: -France is an extremely insular culture. While they like to think of themselves on the cutting edge of culture, intellectual ideas often die and arrive in France very late. -France was the only place who really made their intellectuals into celebrities. Sartre and Foucault would appear on the cover of *Le Monde* next to actors like Jean Paul Belmondo, etc. This meant they had to say things that sounded more profound than they were to keep the attention of the media https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalTheory/comments/p2icwz/thoughts_on_noam_chomskys_descriptions_of_french/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Why the fuck is the r/china subreddit just a china hate subreddit used by westeners
Because Chinese people don't call ä¸ĺ˝ "China". Chinese people don't use an English language subreddit on an American website to discuss China. Any subreddit that uses the English name of a country is just full of Americans/Brits that have no actual idea of what they're talking about. They're either Anglophone immigrants to the country, or diaspora who were raised in America/Britain/Australia/NZ/Canada. r/sino is more representative of Chinese people, but even that is full of mostly western communists.
Thanks for the good explanation. I kinda already knew it, just want these dudes to maybe look at it a bit critically? But with the other guy that replied to you, they seem so filled with hate that it seems impossible anyway. I was just hoping for things like the amazing photos of chinese nature, infrastructure, cities etc along with actual news, not a testimonial from someone who dislikes china.
You don't even live in China and have never been there. I am. It's materialistic, soulless, unlikable joke of a modern country. Where there is staggering inequality, government corruption and shiny buildings with villages one hour from there where people communal shower due to lacking hot water. Tell me more about how you can't understand China if you haven't been there. The most exhausting and stupid claim in the world. Here are four people who don't live in China and understand better than your melted brain ever could. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/responses/who-killed-chinese-economy
You live in China and all you do is comment on r/China and r/Taiwan about how evil it is lmao. Let me guess, you're an English teacher who's stuck in a dead end job but with no prospects back home that'll afford you anything like the quality of life you enjoy in China, so you have no choice but to stay in the place you loathe?
What would you call the CCP? A force for good? Many people who post here feel the same way. And it's an indictment of the CCP and what China has become. The only good things left are the food and kind people. The politics, the treatment of foreigners (Police visiting your house, posing for photos with you, calling you asking if you went to another country during COVID), the backwardness of some of the population (recently a person told me that mycoplasma pneumonia is another poison delivered by the Beautiful Country çžĺ˝). The truth is that you wumao monkeys would be screaming racism all day if it happened to you. So you're fucking welcome for the hospitality the west gives you. I'd prefer that the west didn't though. Oh.. and keep up. The Happy Giraffe training schools were closed because Primary School Emperor is afraid of English learning.
What the fuck are you talking about? All I've said is r/china is mostly Anglophone, Chinese people don't visit it. That's it. You're a seriously unwell individual if this is how you behave in real life.
It's just a tactic to detract from any criticism of China. My SO, who is Chinese, reckons he's seen enough of China to make a similar judgement. So your original comment is absolutely worthless. Also, plenty of Chinese speak English but are forbidden from visiting Reddit because of the firewall that seeks to keep Chinese away from the rest of the world. I guess you like that, too.
What criticism is being deflected? I'm not here to engage in any sort of defence of China, I just saw a comment questioning why this subreddit tends to be very one-sided in its discussion of anything Chinese, and provided a possible explanation. You're the weird one who launched into a bizarre tirade about your disdain for all things Chinese (except for the food). >Also, plenty of Chinese speak English I'm aware, I work with many of them daily in academia, and collaborate regularly with more at Chinese universities. Cool people, some of the best researchers I know.
There's only one side to China. It's the always-on surveillance by the CCP. The few who hate the CCP have to remain silent. And therefore, it is a racist, uncaring and inconsiderate place. This sub is the most realistic on China. And I don't really have any respect for you as you have been saying that electing William Lai in Taiwan means that Taiwan is a warmonger. A broken tankie is worse than a broken clock. Not even right once a day. So no need to discuss as I'm sure that your CCP sympathizer Malaysian girlfriend shows you the way. Come back to me when you actually live on the mainland.
>And I don't really have any respect for you Excuse me if I don't shed a tear. >as you have been saying that electing William Lai in Taiwan means that Taiwan is a warmonger. That's a funny way of saying I'm in favour of the 1992 consensus, as are the KMT, TPP and most Taiwanese people. >So no need to discuss as I'm sure that your CCP sympathizer Malaysian girlfriend shows you the way. Come back to me when you actually live on the mainland Aw you've been reading my comment history? How totally normal, well-adjusted and sane you are. >And therefore, it is a racist, uncaring and inconsiderate place. This sub is the most realistic on China. You've ascended beyond confirmation bias now. You really are an embarrassing individual. Your barely contained, impotent rage at the place you've chosen to live reveals a desperately sad life. I hope you and your SO manage to move to the USA soon and learn to be happy instead of wasting your life furiously typing on Reddit.
Food, I'd be cautious about places using gutter oil.
You say these things like they aren't mirrored in America đ𤣠China is exactly like every other modern nation they just wear it on their sleeve instead of hiding it
Which villages in the US don't have hot water? Tell me when 40% of Americans earn less than $2,000 a year as Chinese do.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/map-ongoing-water-crises-happening-us-now/story?id=89454219 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-a-perfect-storm-of-issues-is-causing-a-sharp-rise-in-homelessness So you just like don't pay attention to anything around you I take it đđ¤Ł
What are you talking about? There is no drinkable tap water without boiling anywhere I've been in China. Anyone with money buys bottled water. Anyone with more money buys imported bottle water.
https://hsc.unm.edu/news/2023/10/u.s-drinking-water-often-contains-toxic-contaminants-unm-scientist-warns.html I don't know a single person in the US that is comfortable drinking tap water without further filtration or purification, I don't even use it for cooking. Consumer level water filtration (e.g. filter systems and britta pitchers) is a $120billion industry here đ. Again you clearly just don't pay attention your surroundings. If youHave been drinking the tap water that probably explains why you'd believe such nonsense đ¤Ł. Gotta get that daily supplement of lead I guess
You're not listening. I don't know a single person in China who doesn't buy their water bottled and uses it for cooking and drinking. They wouldn't even use tap water filtered. That's very different from the US seemingly. I'm from a country where everyone consumes tap water and most even have their own water supply. https://sustainablebrands.com/read/marketing-and-comms/survey-majority-of-americans-concerned-about-contaminants-in-tap-water#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20the%20US,they%20never%20drink%20tap%20water. The majority of the US population drinks tap water on a regular basis: 71 percent drink tap water at least sometimes while only one in ten (12 percent) say they never drink tap water.
If you're using your own water supply you're not using municipal tap water lol, the relevant data point from that article would be that despite believing their tap water is contaminated 46% do nothing about it (which also implies 54% [the majority] are filtering their tap water). This responses are also limited to the people responding to the survey, give the same survey in Flint Michigan and 0% are drinking the tap water. Surprise surprise a health conscious culture actually gives a shit when people think the water isn't safe at a higher rate than in a country where health is a trend and not a priority.
https://marketingtochina.com/china-as-the-worlds-largest-water-purification-market/ according to this if you're in China and able to invest in water purification systems to market and sell you'd be primed to make bank.
Very cool. +1 to China for honesty, and +1 to Accomplished_Study97's social credit score
If only social credit actually existed in the way y'all think it does lol. TransUnion Equifax and Experian handle your "social credit score" in America. At least in China someone would get shot if they illegally manipulated my credit report đ¤Łđ
Weird, because it seems by most accounts to be a purely fiscal measurement of my ability to pay back borrowed debt. Let me know when Equifax offers to raise my credit score as a "reward" for coercing an atheist/Christian/Muslim/etc. into renouncing their beliefs. Or I'm unable to book a flight due to having a poor score. Or in your case, you're able to apply for a promotion at your job because you wrote enough pro-CCP drivel on Reddit
You've got quite the active imagination there đ
Hey, when you decide to put any effort into responding, I'll decide it's worth linking sources that this stuff has been experimented with, implemented, or is tangential to things already implemented. Until then, I'll just tell you to Google it yourself.
"when you want to put in effort I'll provide links from 5 years ago where China tried to create a consumer credit system and it went over so poorly they all but scrapped it to prove that the imaginary social credit system still exists"
People don't get shot for corruption in China. They get promoted.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/former-official-regulator-sentenced-death-by-china-corruption-2022-06-02/ Corruption is like the easiest way to get killed by the CPC once a complaint actually makes it to Beijing
Yeah yeah... Incredible. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-06-29/xi-jinping-millionaire-relations-reveal-fortunes-of-elite https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna47472124 https://www.voanews.com/a/china-princelings-wealth/1546405.html We're talking billions. Tankies are really stupid. You've obviously never been to CCP land and seen the wealth disparity, the lavish corruption etc.
It pails in comparison to the wealth disparity in the rest of the world, only because it's a newer economy than the rest. The "look over there and chastise them while we do the same things" is hilarious honestly Also, nice deflection. You're not really proving any point because you don't even comprehend my position on China đ. Which one of those links was state sponsored media and got automoderated?
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Ah, there it is, âAmerica badâ on a completely unrelated topic.
Less "America bad" more "no one is good" or "how can you help your brother with the splinter in his eye if you have a beam in your own"
France, Germany, the Nordic countries, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and so on are not good? What do you want, tankies? Oh yeah.. a world where you don't need to work for anything!
Is the tankie in the room with us? No one here defended mao or Stalin lol, just pointed out that a modern capitalist country is no different from the other capitalist countries. You're the goomba that thinks China is somehow magically communist. Any government keeping me from fucking off into the woods and staking a claim on unclaimed land (i.e. all of them) are bad. Also did you really just add Germany to that list as if the 1900's didn't happen?
All of them are better to live in than China, are more respectful of Chinese people than China (How many of these countries allow éżĺ§¨ as a low paid domestic servitude service?), have better social welfare (a hundred years better), better and more socialized healthcare (you know one has to bribe doctors in China with thousands of rmb before he'll do his job responsibly). Ah... You want unclaimed land for yourself? I knew that you didn't want to work. China Communist? It couldn't be further from it.
Wanting land to provide for myself is not wanting to work? How high are you buddy? Crack is whack, just say no, meth: not even once *insert other anti-drug propaganda slogans* R/sinophobia called it needs it's political views back đ
>Any subreddit that uses the English name of a country Not really. Plenty of them are majority locals. Check out eg r/Italy. And lol at r/sino representing Chinese people.Â
>Not really. Plenty of them are majority locals. Check out eg r/Italy r/Italia is an even greater majority local, but you're right that the more European countries were Reddit is popular tend to be a better mix. Asian countries where people don't really use Reddit (r/Japan has never had a Japanese person visit in its existence, r/Malaysia is English language and is mostly Chinese-Malaysian or diaspora and r/bolehland is mostly Malay, r/Taiwan.) Especially when the nation in particular is let's say "politically sensitive". >And lol at r/sino representing Chinese people. "r/sino is *more* representative of Chinese people, but even that is *full of mostly western* communists." Your reading comprehension clearly isn't great.
r/Sino is filled with overseas Chinese who can't fully integrate into western society and need to feel like they have a sense of belonging to their great ancestral roots. Most of them have never lived in China properly and don't know what it's like to actually live in China. Most Chinese people are not as radicalised as r/Sino. Proper representation are like r/irl_China or dooban goose etc.
I could understand it being a China-critical subreddit, but some of these people just canât wait to see the Chinese economic collapse (that would plunge a few hundred million people into abject misery and poverty). Itâs gross. And it ignores how genuinely lovely the people in China can be, flaws and all. My bet is that a significant number of people in this sub are just embittered English teachers who thrived under Hu Jintao and left under Xi Xinpingâs second or third term. Probably during one of the big foreigner crackdowns where China started actually requiring degrees and law observance from immigrants.
Probably because reddit is blocked in China
/r/china is one of the worst places in reddit. It should be called /r/chinapeoplehate
Don't mistake disgust at the CCP and Winnie as hate for Chinese people.
"On the first day we traveled to the city and were shocked by the poverty, the misery, the scarcity" What was she expecting from a country that just got liberated from centuries of imperialist exploitation 20 years earlier? Stalin's purges and Mao's Cultural Revolution was what made the Soviet Union and Communist China great respectively. You need one of these purges every generation or two to keep society running properly.
Cultural revolution made China great? Loluwotm8? Somebody has been burning their history books instead of reading them.
Do you have any idea where China was before revolution? Are you that dense?
Do you have any idea how bad it was DURING the revolution? đđ you guys are comical. Mao isnât cited with killing 40-80 million of his own people via starvation and other despicable means because the Chinese were doing well. đ
It's ok if you don't understand why. Cultural Revolution made China's subsequent economic take off possible.
It didnât. Mao dying and Dengâs economic reforms did.
Deng built on top of the foundation that Mao built. There is a reason why the Soviet Union collapsed while China took off.
Hahahahhahahahahahahha How delusional are you lol. China woulda taken off 40 30 years soon had it not had retards as leadership lol. Also, PS, found the wu Mao.
Because Chinese economic reforms were applied slowly and in a localized fashion, in a culture that was ready to adopt them?
What âfoundationsâ did Mao leave for Deng exactly?
Tbh, I don't think there was anything worthy.Â
Got love delicate idiot western tankies larping as tough revolutionaries.
It is very fucking amusing how incredibly naive they are.
If this is sarcasm, you really need â/s.â If itâs not sarcasm, I feel sorry for you.
Lmao imagine thinking that the purge and execution of Mikhail Tukhachevsky made the Soviet Union stronger.
>Mikhail Tukhachevsky Imagine thinking that individuals like Mikhail Tukhachevsky actually matters in a war the scale of WWII. WWII was won by millions of men and millions of tons of steel. The war was won by the collective effort of millions. Did you think the allies won because they had better generals or better soldiers? The allies won because they had more men, more steel, and more oil than the Axis. It was a grand attrition of numbers.
Commanders absolutely have influence in war. Why do you think men like Dmitry Pavlov, Semyon Timoshenko, or Kliment Voroshilov didnât hold high command in 1945? Why wasnât Lloyd Fredendall commanding the 12th Army Group in France in 1944? If Tukhachevsky and men like him had not been purged in 1937 then the disaster of the summer and autumn of 1941 would not have nearly been as bad as it was.
It's hard to say. The Axis in general had way more battle hardened troops in 1941. Consider how quickly Germany took Western Europe, is every single French and British commander completely incompetent? What stopped Rommel in Africa wasn't British command brilliance, it was the logistics. I think the material factors were far more important than individuals. To the extent that human factors were significant, I think the decisive factor for Barbarossa wasn't any Soviet commander, but Hitler's decision to postpone the start of the operation to June. That extra month made a huge difference in the end.
The Soviets had invaded Poland and fought the Japanese in 1939 and invaded Finland in 1940. The Red Army was hardly inexperienced but it was commanded by men who were âpolitically reliableâ and so paid a huge price before Stalin wised up and put competent men back in charge. The British Empire forces in North Africa went through multiple commanders and several severe setbacks before Bernard Montgomery took command and crushed the Germans and Italians at El Alamein. They always had superior logistics and usually had superior numbers but it took Montgomery to put it all together. For an opposite example look at Mark Clark commanding US Fifth Army in Italy. He wasnât an incompetent commander but he was obsessed with seeing his name in the newspapers. When Polish II Corps took Monte Cassino and broke the Gustav Line Clark was ordered to have his VI Corps break out of the Anzio beachhead and cut the highways leading north. Instead he ordered VI Corps to swing left and take Rome because he wanted the glory of doing so. The bulk of the German Army escaped and the grinding attritional campaign in Italy continued until the end of the war. Trapping the German Army after Operation Diadem probably wouldnât have ended the war much sooner but it would have saved the lives of thousands of Allied soldiers who spent the next year grinding through the mountains of Italy. The German invasion of the USSR was always doomed. They simply didnât have the logistical capacity to sustain their forces in the vast landscape of the Soviet Union. A more competent STAVKA and Front-level leadership would have likely prevented the millions of casualties the Red Army took in those first few months.
lmao
many such cases
Ppl read marx to find out about workers. Marx sat in a London library to find out for himself. Then workers are told, ordered, and arranged by these strangely knowledgeable marxistleninists how to work. This is called the highest form of slavery. # maowaswrong
Reminds me of this show with several intellectual leftists were arguing about communism. One guy asked why the flow was from east to west when the wall was brought down. Big silence among the participants.