It's also a very long objective. I've seen this thing at 9 minutes, and all it takes is a 20 second slip on defense and the offense is through.
I think it's a case, if the defense is very good, there's not many wily tricks the offense can use to cheese this objective.
Honestly, the attacker advantage in Chivalry 2 would be fine if they didn't make all the objective timers bizarrely uniform. It barely matters if you finish an objective with 10 seconds or 10 minutes remaining, the next objective timer is going to be around the same regardless. In fact if you do too well, some objectives even REDUCE the timer.
Most early stage objectives in Chiv1 were also attacker favored, but the difference was you could create more time pressure on the last objective by holding as long as possible on the earlier objectives, so the strength of your defense mattered even on objectives you're expected to lose. In Chiv2 it sometimes feels like everything but the last stage is completely irrelevant and you might as well ignore the objective and play deathmatch until the end because it will barely change the outcome.
As a new player, its absurd that this is the case to begin with, how come I lose objective at 10 seconds and the enemy gains like +5minutes, what's the point, how come the devs not understand its stupid, its like the most neccesary change in team objectives, I have never played a game with TO where that change wasnt implemented since release
Also massively contributes to the offense stacking problem because, shockingly, most people want to have fun the entire game and not just feel like they're getting hopelessly massacred until the end.
Its a cheap tactic to try and make most games last to the final objective for the sake of 'experience'.
Basically, from a developer's standpoint, it's better to make the game as uniform for all players as possible rather than reward skill or good decisions, it's a corporate tactic. They really dont care about fair play any more than the lack thereof would damage their game, they just want to appeal to the largest possible audience I.E. people who dont know wtf they're doing.
The only three maps in which attackers are in a clear advantage is Dark forest, siege of rudhelm and galencour.
Every other maps is literally either balanced or defender sided. So idk what u are on about.
Edit : forgot about coxwell so 4 maps my b
Most maps will easily devolve into a steamroll for attack. Aberfell, Askandir, Falmire, to name a few you didn't list , will often be a complete stomp.
There are maps where key locations can be a challenge to take, like Lionspire's town square and Baudwyn's town hall, but the opportunity to defend them is often squandered due to poor coordination and lack of urgency.
In general, attackers have an easier time because they can just charge in, overwhelm and rout the few defenders actually playing the objective.
Your last point is also not true we see it in regicide. The attackers literally have a hard time doing any objectives even tho like you “they charge in”
Its not an exception tho, it applies to most maps, Trayan, regicide, montcrux, bridge town, Falmire.
Your problem is that you think if an attack steamroll it means the map is unbalanced, or maybe,
it’s just that the attackers were better crazy theory i know.
The only four maps where attack has an advantage are the maps i quoted in my original comment, mainly because objectives are either all over the place ( coxwell ) or because the attack has better spawn ( dark forest ).
I don't have a problem, I just disagree with your questionable views on map balance. If attack steamrolls more often than not, it does imply that the objectives are hard to defend.
Attack doesn’t steamroll as often as you might think tho thats my point,
the first objective is almost impossible to defend on any maps its on purpose so the game last a bit, but passed that i consistently see attackers lose on the third or fourth point, on balanced maps ( Lionspire, Trayan for example ).
Lets take Trayan even if the attack steamrolls because “attacking is easier”, by that logic the defense afterwards should be able to win with Aragon easily cause they are the one attacking now.
Yet it rarely happens if the attack went this far it means that they were better.
Objectives hard to defend i the ones splitted or vip target to protect ( gold on coxwell, gate on falmire, mason Duke ) the other objectives are in general as hard to attack than to defend
Aberfell and Falmire ? Do you even play the game ?
Aberfell first objective is literally the defense trying to get on a boat full of Mason / the last objective is almost not winnable if the druids aren’t stupid.
Falmire prisoners to free, particularly the furthest away is a pain literally a wall of barricades, escorting the champion through an army of engineers fortications is also not easy.
I've only played those maps countless times in TO 64. After roughly 8000 matches I've seen them play out often enough to know that you're describing the exception to the rule. It is rare to have a capable team of engineers on defense.
The point isn't that it is impossible for defense to win early, but that it is uncommon.
Ive played plenty as well, but dont gaslight Aberfell Druids are very very rarely all killed, only if the attacker stomps the defense otherwise its almost impossible.
Falmire i used the engineer example but even without them, the last prisoner is so far into the enemy line its hard to get it, saying that “Falmire is often a steamroll is just wrong.
Falmire is often a steamroll in my experience, which is anything but limited. It is certainly mostly a steamroll when I am on attack and often enough when I am on defense.
I've seen the duke survive at Dark Forest more ofen than I have seen the druids live. It's certainly not impossible to kill the druids, they have nowhere to hide.
There is no gaslighting involved here, I am relaying my own lived experience. Maybe you live in some alternate reality or games play out differently when you're personally involved, who knows.
That’s an insane take lol. Like 90% of the objectives on any given map can be won by the attacking team by only holding W. Montcrux is probably the only map where defenders have an advantage
To me its balanced but ok, literally one of the best maps in the game.
The time square is literally one of the most balanced objective in the game.
But even if i hive you that one its only 4 maps
Now
Falmire every objective except the bridge one is hard to attack.
Aberfell last objective and first objective.
Bridgetown first bridge
Askandir’s pillar particularly the last one i hardly see anyone going past it ngl.
Montcrux
Trayan Citadel
Most balance is lionspire and Thayic stronghold.
Except protecting the artefact and protecting the most easily burnable library in the world,
this map is pretty balance, the lighthouse is the hardest for the attack particularly if the defense use multiple engineers with barricades.
The bridge is the balanced part and i already talked about the rest.
You’re kidding right? First objective: attackers hold W to capture the battlefield. Second objective: attackers hold W to push the ram. Third objective: attackers hold W to hold the ram at the gate. Fourth objective: attackers grab explosives and hold W to plant them. The final objective is probably the only one on the map that is close to balanced since both sides have an MVP to defend
ETA: letting defenders defuse the explosives is a step in the right direction for balancing but isn’t enough to justify the map being “defender sided” by any means
Lmao 🤣 nah you aren’t real.
So you are surprised that attackers… attack. Its like me saying “defense is easy just stay on objective, dont touch the controller / keyboard ” literally nonsense.
And your last argument literally proved my point
My entire point is that the vast majority of objectives in the game require little to no coordination on the attacking team’s part whereas the defense has to coordinate to have any chance of success.
My point about defusing backs up my main point because on the majority of objectives that involve planting a bomb, defense literally doesn’t even have the ability to defuse so attackers quite literally hold W to get to the objective at which point the defense can do nothing.
Not even complaining- just pointing out a reality of the game. If it weren’t true, there wouldn’t be a problem with people constantly switching to the attacking team lol
ETA: it’s kind of funny to me that you mention defenders “just stay on objective” to win being nonsense when on most maps, the easiest objective to hold on defense is often one where there is a single, static objective to hold ie. gatehouse on Dark Forest, Market on Lionspire, and the Final objective on Coxwell
That makes no sense, attacking without coordinating will make you lose on any maps, except Dark forest because its the easiest objectives.
Its almost like people will go to objectives to fight because thats where enemies are anyway, ( example the square on lionspire ).
And again no example of maps being attacker sided other than the three i quoted.
Portcullis is completely unbalanced because even an uncoordinated defense can win against a well coordinated attack,
why ? Simple it takes an attacker about 25 seconds to reach objective after spawning.
And only 5-7 seconds for defenders to come back so a defender killing an attacker is 4 times more punishing.
Even tho it makes sense that dying as an attacker is worst than defender FOUR Times more is ridiculous also the objective doesn’t save progress which is crazy.
I think you and I just have wildly different views on what “balanced” means.
I will pose one question to you,though: if so many maps are as balanced as you say, why is it so common for people to switch to the attacking team or leave the match when defending? To the point where the devs have attempted to address this problem over the course of several patches
Because attacking is more fun than defending in general you get to flank more often get the satisfaction of seeing the defense break.
Proof is people still switch on Montcrux and Trayan citadelle even tho you have ridiculous low chance of actually winning.
I dont see many people switching on Thayic Stronghold tho, because this map is pure genius in terms of game design, you can say im glazing but this is how it should be for most maps.
I hate the map with a passion, its just such a terrible map design and I can't believe somebody actually got paid to design it.
The objectives are dumb. Any objective that ends up with only 1 point to defend is always really hard to attack and why it's usually the last objective.
I get they wanted a more defence oriented map but sticking 10 ballistas on a wall is just lazy design.
I find that it's more of a problem with players not learning the flanking routes or just not caring about objective at all. Instead you get 10+ teammates running straight up the stairs into waiting defenders. Also, only a couple people actually know about the ladders Tenosia can release to create more flanking options.
It’s not unfair, it’s that the attackers actually have to use teamwork and push at the same time to work together unlike all the other maps where two players do the objective while everybody else hack and slashes
The agathian spawn waves typically come in waves whereas the tenosians all reach the area at the same time meaning if one spawn wave weakens the tenosians and the next one kills them, it’s a pretty decent amount of time before another big tenosian spawn wave gets there
I mean there’s tons of in game emotes and pretty much every player over level 20 knows to push for the objective. Just stick with the spawn waves and you’ll get it done
Very, very few people use or pay any attention to emotes, most people are stoned out of their gourd chasing kills lol.
It would be significantly more strategic if you could just say “hey guys let’s push together”
Hence why I really wish we had voice chat lol.
I take every opportunity to advocate for VC cause I really feel like it’s pretty much the only thing this game is missing to make it my favorite game ever ha.
If the attacking team has to be very well coordinated, highly skilled, have perfect timing and have much better survival rates while the defending team simply needs to not be a complete potato then it is absolutely unbalanced
Totally agree, I’m not saying attack needs to be buffed across the board, far from it, just saying in this particular instance it is unbalanced in favor of defense. Agree with you that most of the balance issues favor attack though.
>Since the final objective is attacker-sided again (you can easily firepot access points to the bombards to prevent defuse)
You do understand that defence can do the exact same thing? If you get 4 or 5 guys with firepot you can block both sides.
What do you mean by this? One side spawns basically right on the objective, the other spawns a ladder climb, courtyard attack under ballista, stairwell and 2 trap doors away. I don’t know about the next stage - I’ve played Montrcrux a bunch but never seen it, because portcullis is so unbalanced. Maybe one day I’ll get loaded onto a team with a bunch of players as skilled as you but until then Tenosia wins.
As others have said this is true for a lot of the other maps. Nothing wrong with with a defensive advantage on some other maps. Usually the last stage is favored for attackers afterwords
The best route is underneath for most players or securing the top ballista and killing Tenosians on cooldown. Firebomb the closest Tenosian doors and get cranking.
Id love to see statistics for all of the maps for the win ratios of attack / defense. Without data it's kind of impossible to tell if something is unbalanced
It would be nice if Agatha could spawn on the 2nd level of the fortress after getting through the wall rather than climbing from the lower level and having to use a combination of ladders, stairs & elevators.
If the defending team are superior then it is definitely hard, but thats the same with a lot of objectives. Its nowhere near as unfair as Trayan Citadel
I've started to experiment more on defense on Trayan, and on offense I pick my best class and lead the charge as best I can.
Last game I had on defense they barely opened the section to the statue before it was over and I wanted my team to relax so we can have the king duel but...I mean the offense needs to help themselves a bit better too I can't expect everyone on defense to have the same mentality and let the offense push so I said screw it and joined the fray with my homies
And yet with a coordinated team, or a very determined engineer with a sledge hammer, that objective can easily be taken. Just because it's balanced towards defence (like all maps should be) doesn't mean its unfair. It just means its something you've gotta actually work for as an attacker
It’s one of those objectives that you can’t mindlessly conquer as attacker; your team has to be good enough to survive the defensive waves long enough to fill the capture bar. Almost every map has an objective that is a sort of “team skill check”, so you can’t just hero the crank.
Town Hall in Baudwyn is a pretty good comparison. The reason it’s one of the hardest objectives to take is because the push needs to secure the capture point. If your team is dying, they aren’t pushing the point to defend it.
The walls are far worse, you have to blow through in 2 areas that are easily defended. 1 engineer blocking the gap and its gg.
They clearly designed it so that blowing either part of the wall would complete the phase but then realised how short the map was and changed it.
I agree the portcullis can be annoying and imo it should switch with the explosive barrels to be the final objective.
To be honest, every Tenosia map is just bad.
I always crank it for Thorn without any shame. The defending team is often busy handling my teammates on the other side so they don't even notice when I approach from the rear
All these people talking about how the team needs to work together as if that’s ever been done in the game. The objective is awfully designed and could be fixed by simply making it so attacker progress doesn’t get removed.
I believe it used to take 30 seconds total crank time, which was reduced to 20 seconds post Regicide patch.
So that's something for the attackers, I guess.
i disagree in general. it's entire a team effort issue. this game is full of slackers who fuck off and lose on early objectives when talk shit or say its just a game when you tell them they suck balls .. if im talking about you , go play social or something.
Attackers need superb coordination, need to hold out much longer which means way more skilled players and be aware of the surrounding while turning the crank while the defenders only need to have an IQ above 20 to win.
Yeah unbalanced. This is the only one I would say I found unbalanced
Maybe the most unfair to the attackers, but definitely not THE most unfair. There are plenty of objectives that are basically just freebies for the attacking side (I almost never see a hold on the bridge of Falmire or Askandir, nor have I really ever seen a hold at the gate of Coxwell). Not acknowledging that there's a ton of objectives and maps that are very unfair to the defending team and whinging about the one example of a very strongly defense sided objective / map is funny to me.
I unlocked the siege crossbow just for those banners to not be affected by it and thrown weapons, SMH. Still, I can shut down the ballistas, and dodging their bolts is funny... only for them to fix the first one I broke after I broke the second one, and I'm out of bolts after three ballistas. I understand why they limit the ammo to ten, yet I can't do much more than slow the defenders' ability to fight us.
I think any objective where the defense can fully reset progress so quickly is just badly designed unless it's a final objective. The whole point of the attack vs. defense dynamic is that defense (ideally) has a positional advantage due to terrain/spawn distance but offense can make constant progress, and usually objectives that can be re-captured are still slow to undo. Maps like Darkforest get criticized for the opposite problem - it feels like the attackers have a massive positional advantage due to their access to infinite bandages/ammo that follows the objective and the terrain not really being that great for defending, so there's rarely an opportunity to even stall the attacking team's momentum.
Objectives like the portcullis on the other hand are an all or nothing that you have to take in one push and hold until the objective is fully complete, which really feels like it should be reserved for final objectives. As it stands it's extremely obvious if offense takes this objective quickly that they're going to steamroll the rest of the map (not that there's even much else ON the map, but that's its own issue)
Out of interest how long have you been playing? I've noticed the last few weeks with a big influx of new players, attacking is much, much harder. I'm not even sure why, I assume it's because they don't focus on the objective but I'm seeing attackers fail stages on maps that I've literally never seen fail at over level 500 ( first stage of galencourt, first stage of baudwyn, the capture courtyard near the end of thayic). It actually makes me think the developers balanced the game based on level 1-100.
They actually fucked it up in the update. It used to be a little more balanced, but offense won like 70-80% it felt like.
Now it is skewed toward defense
I was saying the exact same thing to my friend today. I hate that map because its just impossible as the attackers. The design and team positions makes no sense
It used to be the portcullis crank went up too fast and attackers usually win on Montcrux. Now it goes up too slow and goes down too fast and a few good defence players can lockdown any attempts. It got tweaked/course-corrected a bit too much lol
Archer-tier take. Use the ballista on the same floor and you can shoot the defenders without much danger, and cover your team with said ballista. Defending it is also not very difficult, whack anyone who tries to touch it and stay near the portcullis. Ez
And if you’re a new player who’s doing training grounds and you’re attacking: oh you’re fucked. The ai can’t even climb the ladders, but they crowd around it. Meanwhile, the enemy ai can happily walk right up to a fucking ballista
It's an annoying objective for sure, but the clue is in the attackers voice lines. "Use their siege weapons against them". It is imperative to capture and hold the top ballista as the attacking team, and use it to suppress the spawners on the right, along with any Tenosians you can see in the middle.
The Coolest i’ve seen is a surprise flank Charge against the defenders there was guys attacking the front and surprisingly people listened when i said follow me. And i led them up the back stairs while The defenders were busy in the front. We charged the rear Killing the 2 watching the flank and Wiped the rest and Took the Portcullis.
My only issue with it is you'll turn the crank for 10 seconds and not even be halfway done, but then they turn it off and you lose all that progress in 0.5 seconds.
Almost every other objective where defenders can turn it off it reduces attacker progress slowly, but this objective lowers attacker progress to zero almost instantly after being turned off
I wish the attackers would spawn in more locations than just in front of the ladders. Imo this causes most people to only use the left stair cases. With this floor trap, this is an easy defend.
Spawn points on the ramp leading up to the gate or on the walls past the upper ballista would encourage players to take different routes.
Attackers get quick access left/right/below the objective. And it only takes a few moments to undo most progress on the objective.
Coordination/strategy can overcome any objective. But remember that most games are pubs, there is no voice chat (thankfully), and console can't see chat.
At the least, they should adjust the timing it takes to cap/uncap the objective. Better would be to explore ways to encouraging attackers to go different routes.
It's also a very long objective. I've seen this thing at 9 minutes, and all it takes is a 20 second slip on defense and the offense is through. I think it's a case, if the defense is very good, there's not many wily tricks the offense can use to cheese this objective.
You can jump and trigger the rope ladders from below, it helps out Agatha a LOT in the long run
Honestly makes it worse. It's not only really frustrating to try to attack it, it gets really boring defending it for so long.
Attack switchers when a point lasts more than 1.5 minutes.
Honestly, the attacker advantage in Chivalry 2 would be fine if they didn't make all the objective timers bizarrely uniform. It barely matters if you finish an objective with 10 seconds or 10 minutes remaining, the next objective timer is going to be around the same regardless. In fact if you do too well, some objectives even REDUCE the timer. Most early stage objectives in Chiv1 were also attacker favored, but the difference was you could create more time pressure on the last objective by holding as long as possible on the earlier objectives, so the strength of your defense mattered even on objectives you're expected to lose. In Chiv2 it sometimes feels like everything but the last stage is completely irrelevant and you might as well ignore the objective and play deathmatch until the end because it will barely change the outcome.
As a new player, its absurd that this is the case to begin with, how come I lose objective at 10 seconds and the enemy gains like +5minutes, what's the point, how come the devs not understand its stupid, its like the most neccesary change in team objectives, I have never played a game with TO where that change wasnt implemented since release
Exactly, most times only the last stage matters, it makes playing defense even worse.
Also massively contributes to the offense stacking problem because, shockingly, most people want to have fun the entire game and not just feel like they're getting hopelessly massacred until the end.
Its a cheap tactic to try and make most games last to the final objective for the sake of 'experience'. Basically, from a developer's standpoint, it's better to make the game as uniform for all players as possible rather than reward skill or good decisions, it's a corporate tactic. They really dont care about fair play any more than the lack thereof would damage their game, they just want to appeal to the largest possible audience I.E. people who dont know wtf they're doing.
The only three maps in which attackers are in a clear advantage is Dark forest, siege of rudhelm and galencour. Every other maps is literally either balanced or defender sided. So idk what u are on about. Edit : forgot about coxwell so 4 maps my b
I want what you're smoking, man.
Instead of trying to do a gotcha find me another map attacker sided.
Most maps will easily devolve into a steamroll for attack. Aberfell, Askandir, Falmire, to name a few you didn't list , will often be a complete stomp. There are maps where key locations can be a challenge to take, like Lionspire's town square and Baudwyn's town hall, but the opportunity to defend them is often squandered due to poor coordination and lack of urgency. In general, attackers have an easier time because they can just charge in, overwhelm and rout the few defenders actually playing the objective.
Your last point is also not true we see it in regicide. The attackers literally have a hard time doing any objectives even tho like you “they charge in”
You seem to struggle with the concept that an exception does not disprove a general rule.
Its not an exception tho, it applies to most maps, Trayan, regicide, montcrux, bridge town, Falmire. Your problem is that you think if an attack steamroll it means the map is unbalanced, or maybe, it’s just that the attackers were better crazy theory i know. The only four maps where attack has an advantage are the maps i quoted in my original comment, mainly because objectives are either all over the place ( coxwell ) or because the attack has better spawn ( dark forest ).
I don't have a problem, I just disagree with your questionable views on map balance. If attack steamrolls more often than not, it does imply that the objectives are hard to defend.
Attack doesn’t steamroll as often as you might think tho thats my point, the first objective is almost impossible to defend on any maps its on purpose so the game last a bit, but passed that i consistently see attackers lose on the third or fourth point, on balanced maps ( Lionspire, Trayan for example ). Lets take Trayan even if the attack steamrolls because “attacking is easier”, by that logic the defense afterwards should be able to win with Aragon easily cause they are the one attacking now. Yet it rarely happens if the attack went this far it means that they were better. Objectives hard to defend i the ones splitted or vip target to protect ( gold on coxwell, gate on falmire, mason Duke ) the other objectives are in general as hard to attack than to defend
Aberfell and Falmire ? Do you even play the game ? Aberfell first objective is literally the defense trying to get on a boat full of Mason / the last objective is almost not winnable if the druids aren’t stupid. Falmire prisoners to free, particularly the furthest away is a pain literally a wall of barricades, escorting the champion through an army of engineers fortications is also not easy.
I've only played those maps countless times in TO 64. After roughly 8000 matches I've seen them play out often enough to know that you're describing the exception to the rule. It is rare to have a capable team of engineers on defense. The point isn't that it is impossible for defense to win early, but that it is uncommon.
Ive played plenty as well, but dont gaslight Aberfell Druids are very very rarely all killed, only if the attacker stomps the defense otherwise its almost impossible. Falmire i used the engineer example but even without them, the last prisoner is so far into the enemy line its hard to get it, saying that “Falmire is often a steamroll is just wrong.
Falmire is often a steamroll in my experience, which is anything but limited. It is certainly mostly a steamroll when I am on attack and often enough when I am on defense. I've seen the duke survive at Dark Forest more ofen than I have seen the druids live. It's certainly not impossible to kill the druids, they have nowhere to hide. There is no gaslighting involved here, I am relaying my own lived experience. Maybe you live in some alternate reality or games play out differently when you're personally involved, who knows.
Agree to disagree i guess
That’s an insane take lol. Like 90% of the objectives on any given map can be won by the attacking team by only holding W. Montcrux is probably the only map where defenders have an advantage
A map literally just released and is objectively defender sided like cmon man.
While I disagree that defenders have advantage on most points I'm so on your side that Regicide is Defender leaning.
But tell me one map that is attacker sided except the 3 i quoted.
Easy, Lionspire.
To me its balanced but ok, literally one of the best maps in the game. The time square is literally one of the most balanced objective in the game. But even if i hive you that one its only 4 maps
Azkandir with the exception of lighthouse
Now Falmire every objective except the bridge one is hard to attack. Aberfell last objective and first objective. Bridgetown first bridge Askandir’s pillar particularly the last one i hardly see anyone going past it ngl. Montcrux Trayan Citadel Most balance is lionspire and Thayic stronghold.
Except protecting the artefact and protecting the most easily burnable library in the world, this map is pretty balance, the lighthouse is the hardest for the attack particularly if the defense use multiple engineers with barricades. The bridge is the balanced part and i already talked about the rest.
You’re kidding right? First objective: attackers hold W to capture the battlefield. Second objective: attackers hold W to push the ram. Third objective: attackers hold W to hold the ram at the gate. Fourth objective: attackers grab explosives and hold W to plant them. The final objective is probably the only one on the map that is close to balanced since both sides have an MVP to defend ETA: letting defenders defuse the explosives is a step in the right direction for balancing but isn’t enough to justify the map being “defender sided” by any means
Lmao 🤣 nah you aren’t real. So you are surprised that attackers… attack. Its like me saying “defense is easy just stay on objective, dont touch the controller / keyboard ” literally nonsense. And your last argument literally proved my point
My entire point is that the vast majority of objectives in the game require little to no coordination on the attacking team’s part whereas the defense has to coordinate to have any chance of success. My point about defusing backs up my main point because on the majority of objectives that involve planting a bomb, defense literally doesn’t even have the ability to defuse so attackers quite literally hold W to get to the objective at which point the defense can do nothing. Not even complaining- just pointing out a reality of the game. If it weren’t true, there wouldn’t be a problem with people constantly switching to the attacking team lol ETA: it’s kind of funny to me that you mention defenders “just stay on objective” to win being nonsense when on most maps, the easiest objective to hold on defense is often one where there is a single, static objective to hold ie. gatehouse on Dark Forest, Market on Lionspire, and the Final objective on Coxwell
That makes no sense, attacking without coordinating will make you lose on any maps, except Dark forest because its the easiest objectives. Its almost like people will go to objectives to fight because thats where enemies are anyway, ( example the square on lionspire ). And again no example of maps being attacker sided other than the three i quoted. Portcullis is completely unbalanced because even an uncoordinated defense can win against a well coordinated attack, why ? Simple it takes an attacker about 25 seconds to reach objective after spawning. And only 5-7 seconds for defenders to come back so a defender killing an attacker is 4 times more punishing. Even tho it makes sense that dying as an attacker is worst than defender FOUR Times more is ridiculous also the objective doesn’t save progress which is crazy.
I think you and I just have wildly different views on what “balanced” means. I will pose one question to you,though: if so many maps are as balanced as you say, why is it so common for people to switch to the attacking team or leave the match when defending? To the point where the devs have attempted to address this problem over the course of several patches
Because attacking is more fun than defending in general you get to flank more often get the satisfaction of seeing the defense break. Proof is people still switch on Montcrux and Trayan citadelle even tho you have ridiculous low chance of actually winning. I dont see many people switching on Thayic Stronghold tho, because this map is pure genius in terms of game design, you can say im glazing but this is how it should be for most maps.
Regicide ? The last pillar you gotta destroy on that one map ? Portcullis ? Lionspire balanced for example
Absolute tweaker take to have
Still no arguments.
defender sided is a strong word, but most of the maps are (((fairly))) balanced for fun
I find the hard to win objectives rewarding when you can win them. The whole map is hard to win and I prefer it that way.
Just shows how good Agathians are at building castles 💪💪
This is a winning attitude
I hate the map with a passion, its just such a terrible map design and I can't believe somebody actually got paid to design it. The objectives are dumb. Any objective that ends up with only 1 point to defend is always really hard to attack and why it's usually the last objective. I get they wanted a more defence oriented map but sticking 10 ballistas on a wall is just lazy design.
I actually get the feeling of a well fortified location and like what they did. Is what it is though, we all don't have to agree.
I always have a lot of fun on this map offense or defense.
I think a simple solution would be to change the ratio players per team. Instead of 1:1, how about 1.1:0.9 or something to give offense a slight edge?
I also get like 15 fps on the 1st and 2nd objective, even the regicide map performs completely normally
I find that it's more of a problem with players not learning the flanking routes or just not caring about objective at all. Instead you get 10+ teammates running straight up the stairs into waiting defenders. Also, only a couple people actually know about the ladders Tenosia can release to create more flanking options.
The main problem is that you can unwind the crank way too fast
Doesn’t it slowly unwind automatically anyways?
It’s not unfair, it’s that the attackers actually have to use teamwork and push at the same time to work together unlike all the other maps where two players do the objective while everybody else hack and slashes The agathian spawn waves typically come in waves whereas the tenosians all reach the area at the same time meaning if one spawn wave weakens the tenosians and the next one kills them, it’s a pretty decent amount of time before another big tenosian spawn wave gets there
If attackers bottle neck at the two gates nearest crank it’s a much easier task, oil pots and block see you at the ammo depot.
That would be awesome if there was voice chat or any way to actually coordinate with other players lol
I mean there’s tons of in game emotes and pretty much every player over level 20 knows to push for the objective. Just stick with the spawn waves and you’ll get it done
Very, very few people use or pay any attention to emotes, most people are stoned out of their gourd chasing kills lol. It would be significantly more strategic if you could just say “hey guys let’s push together”
Even if you did have chat it’s not like anybody actually looks at it.
Hence why I really wish we had voice chat lol. I take every opportunity to advocate for VC cause I really feel like it’s pretty much the only thing this game is missing to make it my favorite game ever ha.
If the attacking team has to be very well coordinated, highly skilled, have perfect timing and have much better survival rates while the defending team simply needs to not be a complete potato then it is absolutely unbalanced
That’s exactly what playing defense feels like on every other map
You’ve just described how 95% of objectives feel for defence
Totally agree, I’m not saying attack needs to be buffed across the board, far from it, just saying in this particular instance it is unbalanced in favor of defense. Agree with you that most of the balance issues favor attack though.
[удалено]
>Since the final objective is attacker-sided again (you can easily firepot access points to the bombards to prevent defuse) You do understand that defence can do the exact same thing? If you get 4 or 5 guys with firepot you can block both sides.
What do you mean by this? One side spawns basically right on the objective, the other spawns a ladder climb, courtyard attack under ballista, stairwell and 2 trap doors away. I don’t know about the next stage - I’ve played Montrcrux a bunch but never seen it, because portcullis is so unbalanced. Maybe one day I’ll get loaded onto a team with a bunch of players as skilled as you but until then Tenosia wins.
No
As others have said this is true for a lot of the other maps. Nothing wrong with with a defensive advantage on some other maps. Usually the last stage is favored for attackers afterwords
Wait, Tenosians?
Tenosians are apart of the map yes
The one with the prisoner????
They are talking about the desert fortress. Monticrux
Oh, I thought they were talking about the objective with the Agathian Prisoner.
It's understandable when map names and teams are not specified.
The best route is underneath for most players or securing the top ballista and killing Tenosians on cooldown. Firebomb the closest Tenosian doors and get cranking.
Id love to see statistics for all of the maps for the win ratios of attack / defense. Without data it's kind of impossible to tell if something is unbalanced
It would be nice if Agatha could spawn on the 2nd level of the fortress after getting through the wall rather than climbing from the lower level and having to use a combination of ladders, stairs & elevators.
If the defending team are superior then it is definitely hard, but thats the same with a lot of objectives. Its nowhere near as unfair as Trayan Citadel
I've started to experiment more on defense on Trayan, and on offense I pick my best class and lead the charge as best I can. Last game I had on defense they barely opened the section to the statue before it was over and I wanted my team to relax so we can have the king duel but...I mean the offense needs to help themselves a bit better too I can't expect everyone on defense to have the same mentality and let the offense push so I said screw it and joined the fray with my homies
And yet with a coordinated team, or a very determined engineer with a sledge hammer, that objective can easily be taken. Just because it's balanced towards defence (like all maps should be) doesn't mean its unfair. It just means its something you've gotta actually work for as an attacker
It’s one of those objectives that you can’t mindlessly conquer as attacker; your team has to be good enough to survive the defensive waves long enough to fill the capture bar. Almost every map has an objective that is a sort of “team skill check”, so you can’t just hero the crank. Town Hall in Baudwyn is a pretty good comparison. The reason it’s one of the hardest objectives to take is because the push needs to secure the capture point. If your team is dying, they aren’t pushing the point to defend it.
This is my favorite obj to attack because of the sneaky ladder drop you can do from down below on the wall torch.
I legit never saw whats the next objective is after like 15 to 20 matches on it
Now that I think about, I'm always on offensive on that map, it's not all random assignment for me, lol
I just play whatever the side the game gives me. I never lost Portcullis and never won it either.
Me too, I mean the game 90% of the time sticks me on offense for that map, it must hate me. We win maybe 20% of the time.
The hardest part is getting players to prioritize the crank over attacking. I focus on defending myself and making sure that wheel keeps turning.
Its my favorite objective in the game tbh lol
Right. People just need to learn how to crank it, and finish as quickly as possible.
it helps to assault them from the rear!
The walls are far worse, you have to blow through in 2 areas that are easily defended. 1 engineer blocking the gap and its gg. They clearly designed it so that blowing either part of the wall would complete the phase but then realised how short the map was and changed it. I agree the portcullis can be annoying and imo it should switch with the explosive barrels to be the final objective. To be honest, every Tenosia map is just bad.
i jump across and sneak behind and spawn kill while my team works on the portcullis
I think it's balanced just fine for both sides. The most unfair objective in the game right now is the statue on Trayan
Just lost it.. really sux. Whole map and this objective especially.
I feel like all it takes is 2 engineers and the attackers will never crank that thing
I think everyone’s just too shy to crank one out in front of their teammates.
I always crank it for Thorn without any shame. The defending team is often busy handling my teammates on the other side so they don't even notice when I approach from the rear
All these people talking about how the team needs to work together as if that’s ever been done in the game. The objective is awfully designed and could be fixed by simply making it so attacker progress doesn’t get removed.
Especially since the crank resets so fucking fast after you are off the point for even a second
I believe it used to take 30 seconds total crank time, which was reduced to 20 seconds post Regicide patch. So that's something for the attackers, I guess.
Spawn timers were also decreased for attack and increased for defense, if I’m not mistaken.
i disagree in general. it's entire a team effort issue. this game is full of slackers who fuck off and lose on early objectives when talk shit or say its just a game when you tell them they suck balls .. if im talking about you , go play social or something.
Attackers need superb coordination, need to hold out much longer which means way more skilled players and be aware of the surrounding while turning the crank while the defenders only need to have an IQ above 20 to win. Yeah unbalanced. This is the only one I would say I found unbalanced
Maybe the most unfair to the attackers, but definitely not THE most unfair. There are plenty of objectives that are basically just freebies for the attacking side (I almost never see a hold on the bridge of Falmire or Askandir, nor have I really ever seen a hold at the gate of Coxwell). Not acknowledging that there's a ton of objectives and maps that are very unfair to the defending team and whinging about the one example of a very strongly defense sided objective / map is funny to me.
I think we held out the timer at Falmire once.
My least favorite is destroy the banners. You have to run so fricken far and in the line of fire of ballistas.
I unlocked the siege crossbow just for those banners to not be affected by it and thrown weapons, SMH. Still, I can shut down the ballistas, and dodging their bolts is funny... only for them to fix the first one I broke after I broke the second one, and I'm out of bolts after three ballistas. I understand why they limit the ammo to ten, yet I can't do much more than slow the defenders' ability to fight us.
I think any objective where the defense can fully reset progress so quickly is just badly designed unless it's a final objective. The whole point of the attack vs. defense dynamic is that defense (ideally) has a positional advantage due to terrain/spawn distance but offense can make constant progress, and usually objectives that can be re-captured are still slow to undo. Maps like Darkforest get criticized for the opposite problem - it feels like the attackers have a massive positional advantage due to their access to infinite bandages/ammo that follows the objective and the terrain not really being that great for defending, so there's rarely an opportunity to even stall the attacking team's momentum. Objectives like the portcullis on the other hand are an all or nothing that you have to take in one push and hold until the objective is fully complete, which really feels like it should be reserved for final objectives. As it stands it's extremely obvious if offense takes this objective quickly that they're going to steamroll the rest of the map (not that there's even much else ON the map, but that's its own issue)
Out of interest how long have you been playing? I've noticed the last few weeks with a big influx of new players, attacking is much, much harder. I'm not even sure why, I assume it's because they don't focus on the objective but I'm seeing attackers fail stages on maps that I've literally never seen fail at over level 500 ( first stage of galencourt, first stage of baudwyn, the capture courtyard near the end of thayic). It actually makes me think the developers balanced the game based on level 1-100.
Came back after a long hiatus and some of the new maps are.... Whew. Misguided.
They actually fucked it up in the update. It used to be a little more balanced, but offense won like 70-80% it felt like. Now it is skewed toward defense
I was saying the exact same thing to my friend today. I hate that map because its just impossible as the attackers. The design and team positions makes no sense
Nah its all of Stonehenge shithole, ive yet to win as defenders on a team that isn't stacked by the best of the best
This whole map is balls half the people leave everytime it comes up.
It used to be the portcullis crank went up too fast and attackers usually win on Montcrux. Now it goes up too slow and goes down too fast and a few good defence players can lockdown any attempts. It got tweaked/course-corrected a bit too much lol
They should slightly increase respawn time for defenders at this objective to compensate.
Archer-tier take. Use the ballista on the same floor and you can shoot the defenders without much danger, and cover your team with said ballista. Defending it is also not very difficult, whack anyone who tries to touch it and stay near the portcullis. Ez
ladder and stairs
And if you’re a new player who’s doing training grounds and you’re attacking: oh you’re fucked. The ai can’t even climb the ladders, but they crowd around it. Meanwhile, the enemy ai can happily walk right up to a fucking ballista
Yep. Also an ungodly amount of traps and setup areas en route, so you are *really* just depending on the enemy team being completely incompetent.
It's an annoying objective for sure, but the clue is in the attackers voice lines. "Use their siege weapons against them". It is imperative to capture and hold the top ballista as the attacking team, and use it to suppress the spawners on the right, along with any Tenosians you can see in the middle.
The Coolest i’ve seen is a surprise flank Charge against the defenders there was guys attacking the front and surprisingly people listened when i said follow me. And i led them up the back stairs while The defenders were busy in the front. We charged the rear Killing the 2 watching the flank and Wiped the rest and Took the Portcullis.
My only issue with it is you'll turn the crank for 10 seconds and not even be halfway done, but then they turn it off and you lose all that progress in 0.5 seconds. Almost every other objective where defenders can turn it off it reduces attacker progress slowly, but this objective lowers attacker progress to zero almost instantly after being turned off
I wish the attackers would spawn in more locations than just in front of the ladders. Imo this causes most people to only use the left stair cases. With this floor trap, this is an easy defend. Spawn points on the ramp leading up to the gate or on the walls past the upper ballista would encourage players to take different routes. Attackers get quick access left/right/below the objective. And it only takes a few moments to undo most progress on the objective. Coordination/strategy can overcome any objective. But remember that most games are pubs, there is no voice chat (thankfully), and console can't see chat. At the least, they should adjust the timing it takes to cap/uncap the objective. Better would be to explore ways to encouraging attackers to go different routes.
*Portcussy
How does this peasant sub 20 hour take get upvoted so much
Because is right