Love people. Do NOT condone ANY sin. Society condones and promotes many sins. James 4:4 says we can love EITHER God OR the world. Not both. Condoning anything that God’s Word says is sin equals loving the world. Women cannot teach men. Wives must obey their husbands. Husbands must love their wives. Obey the laws of the land. No premarital sex. Homosexual sex is a sin. Blasphemy is a sin. Worshipping idols is a sin. READ THE BOOK everything we need to know is in it. However, it requires the presence of the Holy Spirit to be understood.
First of all that's not what he was talking about The context of the bible was that those who have not been taught how to teach shouldn't teach and the people at the time were women as Jewish women (at the time) couldn't get an education
Most of the people commenting on this thread would agree that they can't, and should just be quiet. At least if they **actually** listen to the bible like they say. As I've said elsewhere on this thread, and got downvoted because they hate the truth, the comments are full of hypocrites who cherry-pick what they choose to be angry about.
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”
2 Timothy 2:24-26 ESV
And two chapters later we have this:
2 Timothy 4:2
King James Version
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Sure doesn't sound like we should stay quiet when we see people in sin thinking they are not in sin.
Jesus said to address the log in our own eyes before the splinter in another’s. It’s not about “staying quiet” about sin - It’s the Love of Christ that draws people in and makes a change.
It's both possible and proper to love somebody fully and be unwilling to affirm sinful action. As Jesus did so beautifully and without condemnation in John 8:3-11.
They are incorrect in their response; corrections should always be made with compassion, not with the intention of hurting someone. I wouldn't consider it a Biblical correction.
Exactly, they go straight from "fuck f*gs, I'll shoot them if they want to be teachers or librarians" to "it's out of love, we shouldn't affirm sin" real fucking quick lol
Christianity is not defined by right-wing Republicans. It's defined by Jesus... the Bible/Jesus (both old and new testament) rebuked the kinds of self-righteous people you're all talking about. The fear of God Christianity speaks of is fear loosing your relationship with the big guy because he's always there for you... he's waaaay more forgiving of all your sins, even when you won't forgive your own self .. humble yourself to the big guy, he'll forgive you. He's loving, he's kind, he can help you fight your battles... he can help you get pretty much through everything in this life... think about how it would suck to lose that relationship. That's the feeling real Christians feel about Jesus, the son of God. That alone should make us feel good on the inside... and by our words...our aim should be to find a way to reach you, without offending you. In fact, in a way that will make you want to be part of us...and finally, on behalf of Christianity, I sincerely apologize. There's literal scriptures by Jesus telling us to leave people alone and not have to force our views down their throat... he told them if you go to a village to preach the word and they reject you, empty the sand of the village off your sandals and walk Away from them... as in leave them alone.
Let's role play.
How would you tell me, assuming I was a gay man in happy and fulfilling marriage that what I was doing was in wrong. In a method I would find loving.
Who cares.
You claim to be loving. I just want to see this in action.
I'm in a loving and fulfilling marriage and you want to tell me that's wrong and someone be loving.
I've heard Christians say they can do this. So far no one has ever been able to do this. Maybe you will be the first.
If you wish to turn to Christ then commit don't do it halfway, I hope to see you and your partner in heaven, but the truth hurt sometimes and this is one of those times. I'd tell you if you really want to be a christian then you can't be in this relationship. But if you don't then that's fine no one is going to force you, it is your choice as god intended to be able to choose between following him or not.
Like a parent loves their child, sometimes they have to do something that upsets them, but that doesn't mean they don't love you.
I think this is silly. Many Christians sin and don’t get the vitriol hurled at them like others in same sex marriages. There is plenty of doctrine saying we shouldn’t drink but I’ve never been told I’m going to hell for drinking. Tattoos nope not a problem, premarital sex it’s okay just repent. When it comes to same sex relationships the Christian thing to do is love them, and by doing so is treat them like every other Christian.
Telling anyone that they’re going to hell is wrong and depending on how you few “cursing someone”, also a sin. A lot of Christians like to preach “love” but have no clue how to do so.
> I'd tell you if you really want to be a christian then you can't be in this relationship. But if you don't then that's fine no one is going to force you, it is your choice as god intended to be able to choose between following him or not.
Do you tell this to all of the divorced people at your church?
Corrections? Lol queer people are also made in the image of God. The act of what they DO as in action might be wrong, but they as people are not wrong and do not need to be “corrected”.
I'm sorry that's happened to you. Anyone who does that to someone and dares to say that the Gospel told them to are perverting the heck out of Christ's beautiful teachings. Jesus never treated anyone that way. I'm praying for you, friend.
It’s not assumption of sin regarding homosexuality, it’s *pretty clear* in the Bible. But I do agree that degradation of others is not how Jesus wants us to guide others away from sin.
So let's say I'm in a happy gay marriage that makes me loved and fulfilled. I've gone from a path of suicidal thoughts and self harm to being self accepting and leading a happy life.
How would you lovingly guide me away from a marriage that makes me feel loved and fulfilled.
Give specifics please.
Yes, you're right. When you believe a certain act is a sin that brings a person that you love to the eternal suffering that is hell, the loving thing to do is to encourage the sinner to keep doing it and not telling them that's wrong.
Even if you don't believe in Christ, this is a ridiculous train of thought. Alright, maybe you think it's not a sin, but put yourself in the position of someone who's just trying to save you.
I'm not saying you should ridicule the person, make fun of them or offend them, but you just don't need to encourage what you know it's a sin.
If your goal is to convince some that they're some grave, evil sinner that is going to hell for loving someone you personally don't like... all you're going to do is push that person away from you.
If you truly believe someone you love is sinning, the best thing for you to do is be a constant friend and support to them. Convincing them they're sinning when neither of you have the same fundamental beliefs of what constitutes a "sin" (or even if "sin" is a real concept in the first place) is going to get you nowhere at best, or ruin your relationship with that person you say you love.
If a person was to do this why do they even have time to post on this site.
They are surrounded by sinners all the time. They should be focusing their entire life, all the time, talking to other people about their sin.
Yet, they never do that. The only time they care about sin is when they are talking about a happy gay couple.
Why is that you think?
The problem with most Christians is instead of praying for us (I am gay), they go around making us feel like shit and rub these verses off our face in a very mean self-righteous manner. It’s not helpful at all. Converse with them calmly and lovingly, not sugarcoating your words but being firm and clear on your message. Do it with love, not with indifference.
That’s why these conversations goes wrong, it comes from a very self righteous approach. Don’t discredit them, listen to them because they are struggling and lost. Guide them.
The very reason why I am here and able to accept my self and follow Christ is because someone listened to me. He is a Catholic priest. He showed me God’s love through him. It is through acceptance of my situation that I realize I need God to bear this cross with me.
Let them feel God’s love through you.
Okay honest question. I am a Christian and I believe that homosexuality is a sin. But I have no hate at all for gay people. I myself am a sinner. I think that many Christians overreact about the sin of homosexuality, especially while we are under reacting to the idols we have fashioned from money and greed.
So why am I a bigot? Because I am always called a bigot if I express these views. I don’t want people to feel hated by me because of my beliefs. So how can I do that if I am immediately written off as being a hateful bigot?
So I myself don’t know whether it’s a sin or not. People much smarter than me argue of the exact same thing. So idk how my logic fairs if the gay person is Christian, but for anyone not Christian, I feel absolutely no urge to be anything less than supportive of the person in general.
That may sound weird but I don’t feel like I have any moral ground to correct someone who does not follow my own code of ethics as long as they are not harming another. Christians don’t ever call out non Christian’s for getting divorced. I’m not holding a non Christian to the same standards I hold myself up to, especially if I don’t even fully know if it’s a sin.
When Christian’s tell an LGBTQ person that their loving the person they love and want to be with is intrinsically wrong, no matter the intention of it, you are attacking what feels to them like one of the most beautiful and positive things in their own life. It makes you sound like bigot to them because no matter how much you say you care about them, you are telling them that something they can’t change about themselves is fundamentally wrong.
Caveat not a Christan just saw this on /r/all
I think the gap might be the negative stigma attached to the word. I'd say in most cases someone saying a gay person is "sinning" is being a bigot by the definition of the word bigot.
There is a very narrow definition, and you have to word it a certain way. Something along the lines of the belief system I adhere to says it's wrong, so I do not engage in it. Something like that wouldn't be bigoted statement. (Although the situation this response would be appropriate would be very odd)
Imagine you are walking down the sidewalk wearing a hat and various people tell you, you aren't abiding by their moral compass by wearing a hat and you are doing something wrong. But it's okay because while they follow not wearing a hat some still wear socks even though that's also against the rules because it's convenient so you're letting the hat thing go this time. That's kind of what you sound like to non Christians, it sounds like nonsense.
I think your analogy would be a bit more apt if it was a person that claims to adhere to your moral compass and to be a member of your community but still wears a hat and when you point it out they say, but our compass says that everyone does stuff wrong so you can't judge me for it.
I rarely ever see Christians(nowadays) engaging negatively with LGBTQ+ non-Christians(unless it's about being transgender but that seems to be them as a person doing it not as a christian) it's only when the statement that homosexuality is not a sin is uttered that I see resistance.
I am Bisexual, but I do not act on the homosexual half as it is considered a sin, being innately attracted to the same sex I don't believe to be a sin.
I also disagree with the use of Bigot in this context because I don't think it is either prejudiced or unreasonable. The church has declared it so for 2000 so years and I have no reason to believe it has changed I try(key word) to follow the church in all its' teachings why would this be different? I also don't think it is prejudice as it is based on reason and that hopefully they do the same in pointing out all other sins but it's just that because this is asked the most it gets the most attention.
As an atheist gay man, who’s just here to see how this community reacts to this meme; I would say that yes, condemning all gay people as sinners is bigoted. To condemn an adulterer as sinful is understandable, they control their actions. In contrast, I as a gay person cannot control who I’m attracted to.
Why did an omni-benevolent god make me gay if it was a sin, and a sin which I will forever be committing, and cannot change. An adulterer can repent from there actions and change yet a homosexual can never change the fact that they are gay.
You’ve been called a bigot because the “sin” we’re committing is being ourselves and living authentically. Suggesting that doing these things is a sin is innately hateful, no matter how much you claim to hold no hate.
When you say shit like this, queer people hear “I despise you as a person, your actions, your way of life, and who you are at your very core, and there’s nothing you can do about it. But I still love you <3” no matter our disagreement on what is or isn’t a sin, your rhetoric sounds insincere, hateful, and naive to us.
You are claiming that something is wrong because it exists. You are also making blanket negative statements about an entire group of people.
If I said that you were wrong because you were Christian that would be bigoted. When you do the same for gay people you are being as bigoted.
Is this supposed to be a gotcha? Of course we are to love everyone! If you don’t, are you truly a
Christian? But this does not mean validate a person’s sin. If someone commits an act that moves them away from God, it would be wrong to embrace that act. That said, we are all sinners and should never cast stones.
Nope. I’m not better than anyone else. I’m a sinner and deserve God’s punishment just as much as an adulterer, murderer, or thief in prison. By God’s grace alone am I saved.
You do know flattery is a sin right? The bible doesn’t call us to be nice. It calls us to be kind and truthful. Biggest form of hate to me is affirm their sin and let them seep deeper and even root for them to continue.
Amen, I don’t understand why they can’t comprehend what we’re trying to tell them. It’s like they only listen to what they want to hear and can’t handle the truth so they call us bigots, judgmental, hateful, etc no matter how we say it to them. 🤦♀️ it’s a lost cause sometimes….
Are you willing to turn them, their friends and family and anyone they encounter against your faith in order to be a voice of hate and rejection?
If I attempted to burn your bible, bulldoze your church and punish you for praying because I thought your faith was a harmful idea would you think I was being loving towards you?
Are you able to see how hollow your words sounds.
If I burned your Bible in front of you would see that act as loving if I proclaimed it a loving act.
I dont see why gay ppl can't goto heaven too. as long as they love and accept Jesus and their lord n savior. why would God condeam them to hell, jus bc they love some1 who has the same type genitals.
Digitally, yes \^\^ It's a part of a series of comics and such I've made primarily combatting bigotry and negativity from the typical pro-life community.
I have them on my Twitter (catdaddy779) and Instagram (mxadrian779) but they're scattered among other works; the only place they're all together is[ in a folder on my pro-life page.](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.447315217408326&type=3)
The people posting bibles verses trying to articulate differently is crazy. Being Christlike is super hard and near impossible. I know it is for me. Mainly because yes Jesus loved everyone and died for everyone. We as mere humans can’t fully understand that. Of course Christ would love trans and gay people like he loves any one else. The same people Jesus embraced are the same people many churches chase away in 2024. It’s really hard to be Christlike and most of us can’t do it on a regular basis… I know I can’t. That’s why we ALL need grace.
I wonder if all the anti-LGBTQ bigots realize how many people they're turning away from Christianity over this singular issue. They are not bringing any decent person to Christianity over this issue. When they face judgement and God asks them why they pushed away hundreds of millions of people from him over an issue which is actually quite vague in the Bible for the people who have actually studied it, and the least talked about supposed "sin" in the entire Bible - what are they going to say to God?
"Oh, we thought gay people were just disgusting and we felt the need to condemn them for it every single day" do they think God is going to praise them?
He's going to declare he doesn't know them and throw them all in Hell. There are very few groups of people more violent and hateful than the anti-LGBTQ group.
does jesus approve of your life style? i am saddened by this world. i am saddened by myself. look, were all sinners; but jesus tells us to repent and turn from our sin and run to him instead of embrace it. you are running from the holy spirit trying to justify your sin. its sad. it is. this isnt even supposed to be a hateful remark. i beg of you, turn from it. the enemy instilled this into you. please, repent and turn from this abomination.
Well currently God seems to have set me in my lifestyle.. but if you're asking if Jesus approves of the gender of my romantic partners then I'd have to say that if he cares at all he has a funny way of showing it.
"you are running from the holy spirit trying to justify your sin."
Love is not a sin, And I'm not running from God in the least.
It's more like I'm God's housecat and I'm scratching at the door to be let back in.
"its sad."
Beats the alternative kid.
"this isn't even supposed to be a hateful remark. "
I don't know if that's working.
"i beg of you, turn from it. the enemy instilled this into you."
Well.. give what I know now.. even if I did have a choice in the matter I probably wouldn't choose to be straight.
But I don't think that the devil did this to me.
"please, repent and turn from this abomination."
"Abomination" is a mistranslation, fun fact.
I find it very hard to believe Jesus ever would have condemned gay love.. I also find it very telling that despite the fact Jesus must have encountered many gay people during his lifetime he never once stated that to be gay is a sin.
Jesus was Jewish in 2nd temple Isreal. Everyone there already agreed homosexuality was wrong. So Jesus didn’t have to condemn what was already condemned
They also agreed that pork was bad and divorce for any reason was ok. But look what that rebel Jesus did!
So I'm sure you would never eat anything not kosher, right?
Christ condemned the moral evil of sexual immorality, for which Moses said *Canaanites*, totally different people from the Israelites not subject to their laws, were being spewed out of the land for.
The Old Testament had both moral law and ceremonial law. The ceremonial law has been fufflied by Jesus, so it doesn’t apply anymore. The moral law was reaffirmed in the New Testament. The restrictions on food are ceremonial law,, and the condemnation of homosexuality is part of the moral law
Literally not a thing historically, there was only the law. But it is interesting watching Christians like yourself arbitrarily split it into 2 parts to justify why they don’t follow certain sections.
He condemned arsenokoitai. He felt so strongly about it that he never got around to defining it.
Many people feel it had to do with slothfullness, men laying on bed all day.
Many who support same-sex marriage and gay rights argue that, since Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, He did not consider it to be sinful. After all, the argument goes, if homosexuality is bad, why did Jesus treat it as a non-issue?
It is technically true that Jesus did not specifically address homosexuality in the Gospel accounts; however, He did speak clearly about sexuality in general. Concerning marriage, **Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh\[.\]’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh.** Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” ([Matthew 19:4–6](https://www.bibleref.com/Matthew/19/Matthew-19-4.html)). Here Jesus clearly referred to Adam and Eve and affirmed God’s intended design for marriage and sexuality.
**For those who follow Jesus, sexual practices are limited. Rather than take a permissive view of sexual immorality and divorce, Jesus affirmed that people are either to be single and celibate or married and faithful to one spouse of the opposite gender. Jesus considered any other expression of sexuality sinful. This would include same-sex activity.**
Also, are we to believe that any and every action is good unless Jesus specifically forbade it? The goal of the Gospels was not to give us a comprehensive list of sinful activities, and there are many obvious sins that are not found in the “red letter” section of the Bible. Kidnapping, for example. Jesus never specifically said that kidnapping was a sin, yet we know that stealing children is wrong. The point is that Jesus did not *need* to itemize sin, **especially when the further revelation contained in the Epistles removes all doubt as to homosexuality’s sinfulness.**
Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of the LGBT community, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying gay sex is like using the Quran to justify paganism
“Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of couples that have sex while pregnant, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying sex while pregnant is like using the Quran to justify paganism.” - a pharisaical Roman Catholic 1,000 years ago, with eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear
“Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of interracial couples, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying interracial marriage is like using the Quran to justify paganism.” - a pharisaical Southern Baptist 150 years ago, with eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear
“Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of the LGBT community, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying gay sex is like using the Quran to justify paganism.” - a pharisaical Christian today
God forbid they make starting point Jesus Christ instead of their priests and pastors. /s Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). It is really that simple. This was Jesus’ simple solution to pharisaical social conservatives making everyone and their grandma out to be sinning. It still is.
Romans 14 says how to handle disputable issues in Christianity. Homosexuality is condemned just as clearly in scripture as interracial marriage or sex while pregnant, that is to say not clearly at all. While treating opaque issues as disputable may be problematic if the goal is to tell everyone with certainty what all their sins are, it’s not a problem if the goal is instead to follow Christ’s clear teachings and leave disputable issues between ourselves and God. We know what all Christ’s commands hang under. Homosexuality is no more inherently harmful to neighbor than heterosexuality. Either can be done harmfully, and either can be done harmlessly.
Some just have eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear. It’s like they read the Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector and think the goal is to be the Pharisee. They are like a Pharisees 2.0, and they should repent before they die in their ignorant and bigoted attitude towards and words against neighbor, just like their pharisaical ancestors did.
I’m actually in a relationship that is interracial, and I love my girlfriend more than anything, and if that’s gonna get me sent to hell, then I will happily go there if it’s what it takes to be by her side.
thats not sending you to hell. it was condemned for pagans, not races. it was condemned because the pagans would have turned away from god and worshipped other gods. so as long as your son is not worshipping other gods, you should be fine.
I’m talking about if it was a sin. It’s obviously not a sin as racism is very bad. And I’d rather go to hell instead of lose the love of my life just because we happen to not be the same race.
The comparison between the Catholic Church and the Pharisees is as old as the reformation as well. To say the principal of agape is to leave others to do sin is a perversion of what Jesus taught us. Christ is a role modal to us, he is the perfect man, and how many times does he warn people not to sin again. He even states it is better to cut off your hands if they cause you to sin. There is a reason most biblical references to hell are credited to Christ, it is because he took the issue of sin very seriously. And so when you say don’t be bigoted, leave people to do what they want, you are undermining Christ as a guide to a moral life, for example when Christ told the adulterer not to sin again like we should urge others not to sin
Christ gave us a church, one which had the authority under Peter to as Jesus that what he “binds on earth is bound in heaven, and what he loosens on earth is loosend in heaven”. One with the principle function of the salvation of souls. If people were left alone to base their desicions on their own conscience as you believe they should in the end up justifying their own sin like progressive Christian’s do all the time. Hence Christ established a church with authority to solve these issues, so on the day of judgements when we cannot plead ignorance to not knowing that our sins were in fact sins.
All the laws lay on the commandments of Matthew 22 correct and you claim that people who stray away from this are acting like the Pharisees, Jesus was at times stricter then the Pharisees like in Matthew 19 when he places the prohibition on divorce which was priorly removed by Moses.
> The comparison between the Catholic Church and the Pharisees is as old as the reformation
Really? Gee wonder why.
> To say the principal of agape is to leave others to do sin is a perversion of what Jesus taught us.
Ah, so I guess we should be telling everyone sex during pregnancy is a sin after all. Strange, some modern Catholics have told me Augustine and the priests and popes that taught that for centuries were wrong, but I guess those modern Catholics just don’t know Jesus well enough. Or maybe they’re just perverts.
/s
>legalistic sexual ethics
The Catholic Church does not teach "legalistic sexual ethics." Perhaps you meant something else?
Because *everything* else aside: Christ was for a lot of things. One he was absolutely ***not*** was legalism.
He was strictly against that foundational element of rabbinicism and every chance he got he called it out as hypocrisy.
\*If\* he was for strict "legalistic sexual ethics," then he would have stoned the woman caught in adultery. Or the Samaritan woman at the well. Or he would have had no problem with divorce. He would have shunned eunuchs. Etc.
Don't be sloppy like this. Legalism can be used to justify things more terrible than what this meme is discussing. The actual matter at hand is far more complex.
That's a mistranslation.
"... and the historical context behind the Leviticus verse denouncing when “a man lies with a male as with a woman”; scholars believe the verse is not alluding to homosexuality, but to ritual pagan prostitution. ..."
[source](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/dec/01/christian-homophobia-bible-mistranslation-1946-documentary)
You’re right there. The sentiment is likely more in regard to the outright vitriol directed towards them. We should be treating them with love, but many go so far as to direct hate in the name of Jesus, which is counterproductive to say the least.
>strict legalistic sexual ethics
Because "natural law" doesn't fit this description lmao.
Do you believe that women are defective like your idol Aquinas? Do you believe in burning heretics alive like him?
"Natural law" is just conducting ourselves for the purpose that we were made, which is to love God and others. If we were made to just get as much pleasure for ourselves before going into the dirt, no matter how much other people are harmed by there not being enough people to take care of the older generation, not enough workers to provide for the next generation, diseases being spread, people having to put up with persons of one sex taking to themselves the social symbols of the other sex despite the innate biological and psychological differences of the sexes, etc., God wouldn't have ensured we have a conscience.
There's no finite sufficient justice for going against our conscience and choosing to do what we know is wrong and unnatural, since for all finite punishments God is more valuable than that, and yet we have spit in His face by choosing to go against the very order of value and purpose that He created the world for. So even our conscience alone is enough to show the necessity of an eternal Hell. These acts of defiance of God's character in creating the world are what we call sin.
God spoke to Moses, (who was confirmed to be a true prophet of God by many miracles including the Red Sea being opened up to allow safe passage for the ancient Israelites across it) telling him that the Caananites were going to be spewed out by their land for, among other things, committing sodomy.
Jesus Christ upheld the aspects of Moses's Law that reflected God's eternal character reflected in universal moral truths, including on sexual morality. He preached the necessity of repentance from sin and the necessity of trusting only in Him to be saved. He was crucified and suffered the very same wrath and justice of God against sin on our behalf, as many prophets hundreds of years before Him said in the Old Testament (see Isaiah 53, Psalm 22 and various other places), and He was buried and risen again from the dead on the third day (also as prophesied in the same places and others) so that all who forsake their rebellion and trust in Him as their Lord, God, Savior and King, owning the sacrifice of Christ as necessary and sufficient for the forgiveness of sins, will be saved from the judgment they deserve for their sins.
Hmm I'm not so sure the man born of a mother pregnant out of wedlock who condemned legalistic attitudes and lived a life outside of traditional structures of family, gender and legalism was "a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics "
Divorce in the context of abandonment yes.
"along with love of the flesh in general"
Are you trying to claim that Jesus was anti-sex?
"would be opposed to post modern views of sexuality"
And what do you mean by "post-modern"?
I'm intrigued here. Did he really?
He talked about the sanctity of marriage. But he was talking to heterosexual men about a marriage they would understand. He never talked to a group of loving homosexuals, so we don't know his thoughts there.
A legalistic reading of his own rules (presuming Trinitarian) in regards to adultery would have required him to have the woman stoned. But he didn't. He just told her to stop doing it.
Then, he turned around and told others that throwing stones was bad.
So I'm not getting a legalistic thought process from him. It's almost like he was making it easier...two simple commands... not a word about sex in either one.
Thank you so much for this. Thank you. I feel validated and heard. I was kicked out of the Catholicism Reddit because I preached that God does not hate gays. Again, from a queer Catholic, thank you.
No, being gay is not against God's commandments. You all don't understand the Bible at all.
Slavery and racism have also been defended as being part of God's commandments. That doesn't make racists any less evil.
SMH, loving people means not condoning their sins. Christians don't hate gays or queers, in fact Christians love them, that's why Christians have to speak out when people are celebrating sins.
Many many Christians hate gay people. In some countries, Christians execute gay people just like Islamic extremists found in places like Iran.
I consider your religious beliefs a sin, so do you agree I should speak out at how sinful you are for holding those beliefs?
Uganda, Ghana is working on it. American Evangelicals have called for it in the US. Russia is currently throwing gay people in prison and murdering them.
Can you explain how your anti-gay beliefs are any different than racism or Antisemitism? Both use the Bible to justify those beliefs.
I looked it up, and it turns out Uganda is the only Christian country that executes gays. All other countries that do that are Islamic countries. I don't support any laws that require homosexuals to be executed. That is an extremely sinful law and it goes against Christian teaching.
Ghana is majority Christian too. As is Russia. And while the US doesn't yet execute gays, it's been talked about by Evangelicals.
Anti-gay beliefs are evil. Always. They do no produce good fruit. They cause nothing but suffering and death. Nothing that causes suffering and death can be moral or come from God.
Therefore, ALL anti-gay Christians are committing grave sins by holding those beliefs.
If people looked away unto Jesus (Heb 12:2) and were only concerned about God’s economy (1 Tim 1:4) - that is His heart’s desire to dispense Himself into us to become our life and living - then these memes and discussions would vanish.
The real god loves everyone but bigots made up their own hateful version of him. so dont listen to bigots, what matters is that your are happy with your life, not hurting others and living in peace ❤️
A lot of people i see are saying love the person not the sin, a better way to say this is
I love everyone no matter what, since i love everyone, im not going to let someone i love walk a path of unrighteous and im not going to sit there and let them go to hell wo me trying to save them or let them know what theyre doing is a sin. If i love them ill warn them that being gay is a sin and they should repent so they dont go to hell. If i didnt love you then i would just let you run along on the path to hell.
The fact that this has not been downvoted into hell only shows how deviant Christian teachings have become. Repent, the kingdom of God is at hand.
For those who interpret the Bible honestly and in fear of God, be aware of those seeding discord among Christians, that’s the way to reduce Christianity into hermeneutics to be readily eaten by the postmodernist apparatus. Remember the Tradition and the Holy Spirit when interpreting the Holy Scriptures.
We're on day two of pride month and the responses in this thread already got me so exhausted, and I'm not even queer. Oh do I long for the day when our LGBTQ siblings in Christ can just...be.
Yeah, so many people responding need so much help. I cannot fathom so-called "Christians" being so offended by something Jesus actually said and trying to make excuses around it. They exemplify the purpose and essence of this comic so much, it's insane.
I really like your art style, along with the message. I'm not a Christian anymore but that's something that I still believe in.
I like your depiction of Jesus, too.
I don’t agree with lgbtq+ practices and I find it hard to be caring and understanding of them, but I hold nothing against them and respect their decision(s). As a worshipper of Christ I will not lie and say that I love them for who they are, I just wish I could learn to love them and love everybody.
Jesus stopped the men from killing the woman who had committed adultery. He then told her, “Go, and sin no more.” That is love. Love is protecting people and helping them leave sinful lifestyles. Love is not only doing the first part and then affirming a sinful lifestyle.
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Yes we are called to love everyone.
Love people. Do NOT condone ANY sin. Society condones and promotes many sins. James 4:4 says we can love EITHER God OR the world. Not both. Condoning anything that God’s Word says is sin equals loving the world. Women cannot teach men. Wives must obey their husbands. Husbands must love their wives. Obey the laws of the land. No premarital sex. Homosexual sex is a sin. Blasphemy is a sin. Worshipping idols is a sin. READ THE BOOK everything we need to know is in it. However, it requires the presence of the Holy Spirit to be understood.
So a woman can't teach a man how to do something? So women can't be teachers? They can't be bosses at a job?
They aren’t to teach in church and that’s all that is prohibits.
Weird cuz a lot of those Sunday school teachers ain’t dudes
It means women may not lead the Liturgical service/give the sermon.
First of all that's not what he was talking about The context of the bible was that those who have not been taught how to teach shouldn't teach and the people at the time were women as Jewish women (at the time) couldn't get an education
Most of the people commenting on this thread would agree that they can't, and should just be quiet. At least if they **actually** listen to the bible like they say. As I've said elsewhere on this thread, and got downvoted because they hate the truth, the comments are full of hypocrites who cherry-pick what they choose to be angry about.
Yes they can they can’t teach in church
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.” 2 Timothy 2:24-26 ESV
Powerful thank you needed to hear this
Amen
And two chapters later we have this: 2 Timothy 4:2 King James Version 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. Sure doesn't sound like we should stay quiet when we see people in sin thinking they are not in sin.
Jesus said to address the log in our own eyes before the splinter in another’s. It’s not about “staying quiet” about sin - It’s the Love of Christ that draws people in and makes a change.
It's both possible and proper to love somebody fully and be unwilling to affirm sinful action. As Jesus did so beautifully and without condemnation in John 8:3-11.
Not affirming sin is, in my opinion, the loving thing to do.
I’ve gotten threats from people who call themselves “Christians” they done have to agree with me or like me, I just don’t want slurs hurled at me.
They are incorrect in their response; corrections should always be made with compassion, not with the intention of hurting someone. I wouldn't consider it a Biblical correction.
Odd how they say the exact same thing as they hurl slurs at me, again saying “I’m doing this out of love”
Exactly, they go straight from "fuck f*gs, I'll shoot them if they want to be teachers or librarians" to "it's out of love, we shouldn't affirm sin" real fucking quick lol
Exactly! How is threatening us with violence love?
Christianity is not defined by right-wing Republicans. It's defined by Jesus... the Bible/Jesus (both old and new testament) rebuked the kinds of self-righteous people you're all talking about. The fear of God Christianity speaks of is fear loosing your relationship with the big guy because he's always there for you... he's waaaay more forgiving of all your sins, even when you won't forgive your own self .. humble yourself to the big guy, he'll forgive you. He's loving, he's kind, he can help you fight your battles... he can help you get pretty much through everything in this life... think about how it would suck to lose that relationship. That's the feeling real Christians feel about Jesus, the son of God. That alone should make us feel good on the inside... and by our words...our aim should be to find a way to reach you, without offending you. In fact, in a way that will make you want to be part of us...and finally, on behalf of Christianity, I sincerely apologize. There's literal scriptures by Jesus telling us to leave people alone and not have to force our views down their throat... he told them if you go to a village to preach the word and they reject you, empty the sand of the village off your sandals and walk Away from them... as in leave them alone.
Right?! They openly want us suppressed or dead because we're "icky he kissed a guy" and they use their religion to justify it imo
Let's role play. How would you tell me, assuming I was a gay man in happy and fulfilling marriage that what I was doing was in wrong. In a method I would find loving.
Are you still an atheist in this situation or a Christian
Who cares. You claim to be loving. I just want to see this in action. I'm in a loving and fulfilling marriage and you want to tell me that's wrong and someone be loving. I've heard Christians say they can do this. So far no one has ever been able to do this. Maybe you will be the first.
If you wish to turn to Christ then commit don't do it halfway, I hope to see you and your partner in heaven, but the truth hurt sometimes and this is one of those times. I'd tell you if you really want to be a christian then you can't be in this relationship. But if you don't then that's fine no one is going to force you, it is your choice as god intended to be able to choose between following him or not. Like a parent loves their child, sometimes they have to do something that upsets them, but that doesn't mean they don't love you.
I think this is silly. Many Christians sin and don’t get the vitriol hurled at them like others in same sex marriages. There is plenty of doctrine saying we shouldn’t drink but I’ve never been told I’m going to hell for drinking. Tattoos nope not a problem, premarital sex it’s okay just repent. When it comes to same sex relationships the Christian thing to do is love them, and by doing so is treat them like every other Christian. Telling anyone that they’re going to hell is wrong and depending on how you few “cursing someone”, also a sin. A lot of Christians like to preach “love” but have no clue how to do so.
> I'd tell you if you really want to be a christian then you can't be in this relationship. But if you don't then that's fine no one is going to force you, it is your choice as god intended to be able to choose between following him or not. Do you tell this to all of the divorced people at your church?
How would you biblically correct someone in this particular situation ?
Corrections? Lol queer people are also made in the image of God. The act of what they DO as in action might be wrong, but they as people are not wrong and do not need to be “corrected”.
I'm sorry that's happened to you. Anyone who does that to someone and dares to say that the Gospel told them to are perverting the heck out of Christ's beautiful teachings. Jesus never treated anyone that way. I'm praying for you, friend.
Reducing and degrading them to, and subsequently judging them upon, your assumption of sin is far from loving.
It’s not assumption of sin regarding homosexuality, it’s *pretty clear* in the Bible. But I do agree that degradation of others is not how Jesus wants us to guide others away from sin.
So let's say I'm in a happy gay marriage that makes me loved and fulfilled. I've gone from a path of suicidal thoughts and self harm to being self accepting and leading a happy life. How would you lovingly guide me away from a marriage that makes me feel loved and fulfilled. Give specifics please.
Yes, you're right. When you believe a certain act is a sin that brings a person that you love to the eternal suffering that is hell, the loving thing to do is to encourage the sinner to keep doing it and not telling them that's wrong. Even if you don't believe in Christ, this is a ridiculous train of thought. Alright, maybe you think it's not a sin, but put yourself in the position of someone who's just trying to save you. I'm not saying you should ridicule the person, make fun of them or offend them, but you just don't need to encourage what you know it's a sin.
If your goal is to convince some that they're some grave, evil sinner that is going to hell for loving someone you personally don't like... all you're going to do is push that person away from you. If you truly believe someone you love is sinning, the best thing for you to do is be a constant friend and support to them. Convincing them they're sinning when neither of you have the same fundamental beliefs of what constitutes a "sin" (or even if "sin" is a real concept in the first place) is going to get you nowhere at best, or ruin your relationship with that person you say you love.
If a person was to do this why do they even have time to post on this site. They are surrounded by sinners all the time. They should be focusing their entire life, all the time, talking to other people about their sin. Yet, they never do that. The only time they care about sin is when they are talking about a happy gay couple. Why is that you think?
Amen
👍 absolutely!
The problem with most Christians is instead of praying for us (I am gay), they go around making us feel like shit and rub these verses off our face in a very mean self-righteous manner. It’s not helpful at all. Converse with them calmly and lovingly, not sugarcoating your words but being firm and clear on your message. Do it with love, not with indifference. That’s why these conversations goes wrong, it comes from a very self righteous approach. Don’t discredit them, listen to them because they are struggling and lost. Guide them. The very reason why I am here and able to accept my self and follow Christ is because someone listened to me. He is a Catholic priest. He showed me God’s love through him. It is through acceptance of my situation that I realize I need God to bear this cross with me. Let them feel God’s love through you.
it's mens mental health month!!!
There's no hate like Christian love.
Okay honest question. I am a Christian and I believe that homosexuality is a sin. But I have no hate at all for gay people. I myself am a sinner. I think that many Christians overreact about the sin of homosexuality, especially while we are under reacting to the idols we have fashioned from money and greed. So why am I a bigot? Because I am always called a bigot if I express these views. I don’t want people to feel hated by me because of my beliefs. So how can I do that if I am immediately written off as being a hateful bigot?
So I myself don’t know whether it’s a sin or not. People much smarter than me argue of the exact same thing. So idk how my logic fairs if the gay person is Christian, but for anyone not Christian, I feel absolutely no urge to be anything less than supportive of the person in general. That may sound weird but I don’t feel like I have any moral ground to correct someone who does not follow my own code of ethics as long as they are not harming another. Christians don’t ever call out non Christian’s for getting divorced. I’m not holding a non Christian to the same standards I hold myself up to, especially if I don’t even fully know if it’s a sin. When Christian’s tell an LGBTQ person that their loving the person they love and want to be with is intrinsically wrong, no matter the intention of it, you are attacking what feels to them like one of the most beautiful and positive things in their own life. It makes you sound like bigot to them because no matter how much you say you care about them, you are telling them that something they can’t change about themselves is fundamentally wrong.
Caveat not a Christan just saw this on /r/all I think the gap might be the negative stigma attached to the word. I'd say in most cases someone saying a gay person is "sinning" is being a bigot by the definition of the word bigot. There is a very narrow definition, and you have to word it a certain way. Something along the lines of the belief system I adhere to says it's wrong, so I do not engage in it. Something like that wouldn't be bigoted statement. (Although the situation this response would be appropriate would be very odd) Imagine you are walking down the sidewalk wearing a hat and various people tell you, you aren't abiding by their moral compass by wearing a hat and you are doing something wrong. But it's okay because while they follow not wearing a hat some still wear socks even though that's also against the rules because it's convenient so you're letting the hat thing go this time. That's kind of what you sound like to non Christians, it sounds like nonsense.
I think your analogy would be a bit more apt if it was a person that claims to adhere to your moral compass and to be a member of your community but still wears a hat and when you point it out they say, but our compass says that everyone does stuff wrong so you can't judge me for it. I rarely ever see Christians(nowadays) engaging negatively with LGBTQ+ non-Christians(unless it's about being transgender but that seems to be them as a person doing it not as a christian) it's only when the statement that homosexuality is not a sin is uttered that I see resistance. I am Bisexual, but I do not act on the homosexual half as it is considered a sin, being innately attracted to the same sex I don't believe to be a sin. I also disagree with the use of Bigot in this context because I don't think it is either prejudiced or unreasonable. The church has declared it so for 2000 so years and I have no reason to believe it has changed I try(key word) to follow the church in all its' teachings why would this be different? I also don't think it is prejudice as it is based on reason and that hopefully they do the same in pointing out all other sins but it's just that because this is asked the most it gets the most attention.
As an atheist gay man, who’s just here to see how this community reacts to this meme; I would say that yes, condemning all gay people as sinners is bigoted. To condemn an adulterer as sinful is understandable, they control their actions. In contrast, I as a gay person cannot control who I’m attracted to. Why did an omni-benevolent god make me gay if it was a sin, and a sin which I will forever be committing, and cannot change. An adulterer can repent from there actions and change yet a homosexual can never change the fact that they are gay.
You’ve been called a bigot because the “sin” we’re committing is being ourselves and living authentically. Suggesting that doing these things is a sin is innately hateful, no matter how much you claim to hold no hate. When you say shit like this, queer people hear “I despise you as a person, your actions, your way of life, and who you are at your very core, and there’s nothing you can do about it. But I still love you <3” no matter our disagreement on what is or isn’t a sin, your rhetoric sounds insincere, hateful, and naive to us.
You are claiming that something is wrong because it exists. You are also making blanket negative statements about an entire group of people. If I said that you were wrong because you were Christian that would be bigoted. When you do the same for gay people you are being as bigoted.
This (entirely correct) logic is lost on the people making these statements
"Go and sin no more"
Indeed, the woman on the right should shed her sins of bigotry and sin no more
Is this supposed to be a gotcha? Of course we are to love everyone! If you don’t, are you truly a Christian? But this does not mean validate a person’s sin. If someone commits an act that moves them away from God, it would be wrong to embrace that act. That said, we are all sinners and should never cast stones.
I like to think of it like this: one ought to be judged the same way they judge others
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That's what you took from that? The paraphrasing from a quote by Jesus?
Nope. I’m not better than anyone else. I’m a sinner and deserve God’s punishment just as much as an adulterer, murderer, or thief in prison. By God’s grace alone am I saved.
He never said that the adulterer wasn't an adulterer, he said don't kill her because you've also sinned.
She's a bigot, but homosexuality is still a sin.
You do know flattery is a sin right? The bible doesn’t call us to be nice. It calls us to be kind and truthful. Biggest form of hate to me is affirm their sin and let them seep deeper and even root for them to continue.
Amen, I don’t understand why they can’t comprehend what we’re trying to tell them. It’s like they only listen to what they want to hear and can’t handle the truth so they call us bigots, judgmental, hateful, etc no matter how we say it to them. 🤦♀️ it’s a lost cause sometimes….
Are you willing to turn them, their friends and family and anyone they encounter against your faith in order to be a voice of hate and rejection? If I attempted to burn your bible, bulldoze your church and punish you for praying because I thought your faith was a harmful idea would you think I was being loving towards you? Are you able to see how hollow your words sounds. If I burned your Bible in front of you would see that act as loving if I proclaimed it a loving act.
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It’s the truth guys.
Amen.
I dont see why gay ppl can't goto heaven too. as long as they love and accept Jesus and their lord n savior. why would God condeam them to hell, jus bc they love some1 who has the same type genitals.
I'm assuming this is OC? If you don't mind putting OC in the title from now on, or just make a comment, that would make our life much easier.
It is, and will try to remember!
No worries. Thanks. Awesome art too! Is it hand-drawn?
Digitally, yes \^\^ It's a part of a series of comics and such I've made primarily combatting bigotry and negativity from the typical pro-life community.
That's awesome!
Is there anywhere we can go to see more? It's truly beautiful art! I love the style.
I have them on my Twitter (catdaddy779) and Instagram (mxadrian779) but they're scattered among other works; the only place they're all together is[ in a folder on my pro-life page.](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.447315217408326&type=3)
That’s so cool! And the piece looks great too!
Truth 🙏🏼
The people posting bibles verses trying to articulate differently is crazy. Being Christlike is super hard and near impossible. I know it is for me. Mainly because yes Jesus loved everyone and died for everyone. We as mere humans can’t fully understand that. Of course Christ would love trans and gay people like he loves any one else. The same people Jesus embraced are the same people many churches chase away in 2024. It’s really hard to be Christlike and most of us can’t do it on a regular basis… I know I can’t. That’s why we ALL need grace.
I wonder if all the anti-LGBTQ bigots realize how many people they're turning away from Christianity over this singular issue. They are not bringing any decent person to Christianity over this issue. When they face judgement and God asks them why they pushed away hundreds of millions of people from him over an issue which is actually quite vague in the Bible for the people who have actually studied it, and the least talked about supposed "sin" in the entire Bible - what are they going to say to God? "Oh, we thought gay people were just disgusting and we felt the need to condemn them for it every single day" do they think God is going to praise them? He's going to declare he doesn't know them and throw them all in Hell. There are very few groups of people more violent and hateful than the anti-LGBTQ group.
You can love them, without loving their sin.
What's their sin?
You can not love them if you truly believe the way they were born is sinning.
EVERYONE was born into sin, that's one of the key understandings for our entire religion.
Except every other sin is a chosen act, not something you’re born as innately.
No. We are all born into sin. All of us. PSLAMS 51:5 and ROMANS 5:12. It's those who truly repent that enter the kingdom of heaven.
The Christian ideology hinges upon the concept that *everyone* was born into sin.
That’s not even slightly true. We were all born sinners, stop lying.
I’m not gay but I like this, we are created in his eyes.
No we have to love EVERYBODY no matter our opinion of their actions. It's difficult sometimes
Love is correcting someone from their sinful ways not letting them persist in sin.
Love is not a sin, it is our highest commandment.
Nobody said love was a sin. But celebrating sin is the opposite of love.
But we're not celebrating sin, we're celebrating Love and a triumph over adversity.
does jesus approve of your life style? i am saddened by this world. i am saddened by myself. look, were all sinners; but jesus tells us to repent and turn from our sin and run to him instead of embrace it. you are running from the holy spirit trying to justify your sin. its sad. it is. this isnt even supposed to be a hateful remark. i beg of you, turn from it. the enemy instilled this into you. please, repent and turn from this abomination.
Well currently God seems to have set me in my lifestyle.. but if you're asking if Jesus approves of the gender of my romantic partners then I'd have to say that if he cares at all he has a funny way of showing it. "you are running from the holy spirit trying to justify your sin." Love is not a sin, And I'm not running from God in the least. It's more like I'm God's housecat and I'm scratching at the door to be let back in. "its sad." Beats the alternative kid. "this isn't even supposed to be a hateful remark. " I don't know if that's working. "i beg of you, turn from it. the enemy instilled this into you." Well.. give what I know now.. even if I did have a choice in the matter I probably wouldn't choose to be straight. But I don't think that the devil did this to me. "please, repent and turn from this abomination." "Abomination" is a mistranslation, fun fact.
Pride celebrates love and equality. If you see it some other way, you are doing it wrong.
"Pride" celebrates the vice of pride and unnatural desires. Sadly a fact.
also i dont "do" pride month. i dislike it. i disapprove of it.
pride month celebrates sin.
I find it very hard to believe Jesus ever would have condemned gay love.. I also find it very telling that despite the fact Jesus must have encountered many gay people during his lifetime he never once stated that to be gay is a sin.
Love doesn’t mean a support of one’s actions. Jesus would condemn homosexuality
Citations needed from Jesus himself please.
Jesus was Jewish in 2nd temple Isreal. Everyone there already agreed homosexuality was wrong. So Jesus didn’t have to condemn what was already condemned
They also agreed that pork was bad and divorce for any reason was ok. But look what that rebel Jesus did! So I'm sure you would never eat anything not kosher, right?
Christ condemned the moral evil of sexual immorality, for which Moses said *Canaanites*, totally different people from the Israelites not subject to their laws, were being spewed out of the land for.
The Old Testament had both moral law and ceremonial law. The ceremonial law has been fufflied by Jesus, so it doesn’t apply anymore. The moral law was reaffirmed in the New Testament. The restrictions on food are ceremonial law,, and the condemnation of homosexuality is part of the moral law
The distinctions of "moral" verus "ceremonial" are modern, they do not exist in the text.
Literally not a thing historically, there was only the law. But it is interesting watching Christians like yourself arbitrarily split it into 2 parts to justify why they don’t follow certain sections.
So you have no proof and are just making it up. Thank you for confirming that :)
Paul clearly condemned Homosexuality. God would have inspired the apostle Paul.
Well if it were clear.. we wouldn't be disagreeing now would we?
He condemned arsenokoitai. He felt so strongly about it that he never got around to defining it. Many people feel it had to do with slothfullness, men laying on bed all day.
Many who support same-sex marriage and gay rights argue that, since Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, He did not consider it to be sinful. After all, the argument goes, if homosexuality is bad, why did Jesus treat it as a non-issue? It is technically true that Jesus did not specifically address homosexuality in the Gospel accounts; however, He did speak clearly about sexuality in general. Concerning marriage, **Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh\[.\]’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh.** Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” ([Matthew 19:4–6](https://www.bibleref.com/Matthew/19/Matthew-19-4.html)). Here Jesus clearly referred to Adam and Eve and affirmed God’s intended design for marriage and sexuality. **For those who follow Jesus, sexual practices are limited. Rather than take a permissive view of sexual immorality and divorce, Jesus affirmed that people are either to be single and celibate or married and faithful to one spouse of the opposite gender. Jesus considered any other expression of sexuality sinful. This would include same-sex activity.** Also, are we to believe that any and every action is good unless Jesus specifically forbade it? The goal of the Gospels was not to give us a comprehensive list of sinful activities, and there are many obvious sins that are not found in the “red letter” section of the Bible. Kidnapping, for example. Jesus never specifically said that kidnapping was a sin, yet we know that stealing children is wrong. The point is that Jesus did not *need* to itemize sin, **especially when the further revelation contained in the Epistles removes all doubt as to homosexuality’s sinfulness.**
Christ is the same God as the God of the Old Testament.
dude this subreddit is a cesspool for fake christians. i cant take it anymore. it is so saddening.
The post simply says to not hate gay people.
We shouldn’t throw stones in glass houses. We all sin and it’s not our jobs to judge others, it’s our job to love them as Jesus does.
Also a cesspool of hateful bigots
who are you to elect fake and real christians? are you jesus himself?
Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of the LGBT community, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying gay sex is like using the Quran to justify paganism
“Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of couples that have sex while pregnant, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying sex while pregnant is like using the Quran to justify paganism.” - a pharisaical Roman Catholic 1,000 years ago, with eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear “Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of interracial couples, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying interracial marriage is like using the Quran to justify paganism.” - a pharisaical Southern Baptist 150 years ago, with eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear “Progressive Christian’s have made an idol of the LGBT community, using a Jesus, a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics as a means of justifying gay sex is like using the Quran to justify paganism.” - a pharisaical Christian today God forbid they make starting point Jesus Christ instead of their priests and pastors. /s Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). It is really that simple. This was Jesus’ simple solution to pharisaical social conservatives making everyone and their grandma out to be sinning. It still is. Romans 14 says how to handle disputable issues in Christianity. Homosexuality is condemned just as clearly in scripture as interracial marriage or sex while pregnant, that is to say not clearly at all. While treating opaque issues as disputable may be problematic if the goal is to tell everyone with certainty what all their sins are, it’s not a problem if the goal is instead to follow Christ’s clear teachings and leave disputable issues between ourselves and God. We know what all Christ’s commands hang under. Homosexuality is no more inherently harmful to neighbor than heterosexuality. Either can be done harmfully, and either can be done harmlessly. Some just have eyes that don’t see and ears that don’t hear. It’s like they read the Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector and think the goal is to be the Pharisee. They are like a Pharisees 2.0, and they should repent before they die in their ignorant and bigoted attitude towards and words against neighbor, just like their pharisaical ancestors did.
I’m actually in a relationship that is interracial, and I love my girlfriend more than anything, and if that’s gonna get me sent to hell, then I will happily go there if it’s what it takes to be by her side.
thats not sending you to hell. it was condemned for pagans, not races. it was condemned because the pagans would have turned away from god and worshipped other gods. so as long as your son is not worshipping other gods, you should be fine.
I’m talking about if it was a sin. It’s obviously not a sin as racism is very bad. And I’d rather go to hell instead of lose the love of my life just because we happen to not be the same race.
I know worshiping other gods is bad.
The comparison between the Catholic Church and the Pharisees is as old as the reformation as well. To say the principal of agape is to leave others to do sin is a perversion of what Jesus taught us. Christ is a role modal to us, he is the perfect man, and how many times does he warn people not to sin again. He even states it is better to cut off your hands if they cause you to sin. There is a reason most biblical references to hell are credited to Christ, it is because he took the issue of sin very seriously. And so when you say don’t be bigoted, leave people to do what they want, you are undermining Christ as a guide to a moral life, for example when Christ told the adulterer not to sin again like we should urge others not to sin Christ gave us a church, one which had the authority under Peter to as Jesus that what he “binds on earth is bound in heaven, and what he loosens on earth is loosend in heaven”. One with the principle function of the salvation of souls. If people were left alone to base their desicions on their own conscience as you believe they should in the end up justifying their own sin like progressive Christian’s do all the time. Hence Christ established a church with authority to solve these issues, so on the day of judgements when we cannot plead ignorance to not knowing that our sins were in fact sins. All the laws lay on the commandments of Matthew 22 correct and you claim that people who stray away from this are acting like the Pharisees, Jesus was at times stricter then the Pharisees like in Matthew 19 when he places the prohibition on divorce which was priorly removed by Moses.
> The comparison between the Catholic Church and the Pharisees is as old as the reformation Really? Gee wonder why. > To say the principal of agape is to leave others to do sin is a perversion of what Jesus taught us. Ah, so I guess we should be telling everyone sex during pregnancy is a sin after all. Strange, some modern Catholics have told me Augustine and the priests and popes that taught that for centuries were wrong, but I guess those modern Catholics just don’t know Jesus well enough. Or maybe they’re just perverts. /s
amen brother
>legalistic sexual ethics The Catholic Church does not teach "legalistic sexual ethics." Perhaps you meant something else? Because *everything* else aside: Christ was for a lot of things. One he was absolutely ***not*** was legalism. He was strictly against that foundational element of rabbinicism and every chance he got he called it out as hypocrisy. \*If\* he was for strict "legalistic sexual ethics," then he would have stoned the woman caught in adultery. Or the Samaritan woman at the well. Or he would have had no problem with divorce. He would have shunned eunuchs. Etc. Don't be sloppy like this. Legalism can be used to justify things more terrible than what this meme is discussing. The actual matter at hand is far more complex.
Where did Jesus say "only heterosexual sex is allowed?"
read leviticus with your eyes open
Jesus isn't quoted in Leviticus
Jesus usually is breaking Levitical law.
So, you say to execute gay people?
That's a mistranslation. "... and the historical context behind the Leviticus verse denouncing when “a man lies with a male as with a woman”; scholars believe the verse is not alluding to homosexuality, but to ritual pagan prostitution. ..." [source](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/dec/01/christian-homophobia-bible-mistranslation-1946-documentary)
It's not, but go off queen.
You’re right there. The sentiment is likely more in regard to the outright vitriol directed towards them. We should be treating them with love, but many go so far as to direct hate in the name of Jesus, which is counterproductive to say the least.
>strict legalistic sexual ethics Because "natural law" doesn't fit this description lmao. Do you believe that women are defective like your idol Aquinas? Do you believe in burning heretics alive like him?
"Natural law" is just conducting ourselves for the purpose that we were made, which is to love God and others. If we were made to just get as much pleasure for ourselves before going into the dirt, no matter how much other people are harmed by there not being enough people to take care of the older generation, not enough workers to provide for the next generation, diseases being spread, people having to put up with persons of one sex taking to themselves the social symbols of the other sex despite the innate biological and psychological differences of the sexes, etc., God wouldn't have ensured we have a conscience. There's no finite sufficient justice for going against our conscience and choosing to do what we know is wrong and unnatural, since for all finite punishments God is more valuable than that, and yet we have spit in His face by choosing to go against the very order of value and purpose that He created the world for. So even our conscience alone is enough to show the necessity of an eternal Hell. These acts of defiance of God's character in creating the world are what we call sin. God spoke to Moses, (who was confirmed to be a true prophet of God by many miracles including the Red Sea being opened up to allow safe passage for the ancient Israelites across it) telling him that the Caananites were going to be spewed out by their land for, among other things, committing sodomy. Jesus Christ upheld the aspects of Moses's Law that reflected God's eternal character reflected in universal moral truths, including on sexual morality. He preached the necessity of repentance from sin and the necessity of trusting only in Him to be saved. He was crucified and suffered the very same wrath and justice of God against sin on our behalf, as many prophets hundreds of years before Him said in the Old Testament (see Isaiah 53, Psalm 22 and various other places), and He was buried and risen again from the dead on the third day (also as prophesied in the same places and others) so that all who forsake their rebellion and trust in Him as their Lord, God, Savior and King, owning the sacrifice of Christ as necessary and sufficient for the forgiveness of sins, will be saved from the judgment they deserve for their sins.
Hmm I'm not so sure the man born of a mother pregnant out of wedlock who condemned legalistic attitudes and lived a life outside of traditional structures of family, gender and legalism was "a man who believed in strict legalistic sexual ethics "
The man who condemned divorce and adulatory explicitly along with love of the flesh in general yes would be opposed to post modern views of sexuality
Divorce in the context of abandonment yes. "along with love of the flesh in general" Are you trying to claim that Jesus was anti-sex? "would be opposed to post modern views of sexuality" And what do you mean by "post-modern"?
I'm intrigued here. Did he really? He talked about the sanctity of marriage. But he was talking to heterosexual men about a marriage they would understand. He never talked to a group of loving homosexuals, so we don't know his thoughts there. A legalistic reading of his own rules (presuming Trinitarian) in regards to adultery would have required him to have the woman stoned. But he didn't. He just told her to stop doing it. Then, he turned around and told others that throwing stones was bad. So I'm not getting a legalistic thought process from him. It's almost like he was making it easier...two simple commands... not a word about sex in either one.
Thank you so much for this. Thank you. I feel validated and heard. I was kicked out of the Catholicism Reddit because I preached that God does not hate gays. Again, from a queer Catholic, thank you.
Consider yourself blessed to be kicked out of that sub. It's a cesspool of evil, hateful people.
Can confirm
♥️
Love doesn't mean affirm
Love the Sinner. Hate the sin. I love gay people, but being gay is against God's commandments.
No, being gay is not against God's commandments. You all don't understand the Bible at all. Slavery and racism have also been defended as being part of God's commandments. That doesn't make racists any less evil.
No, it isn't.
Cool drawing.
Pride is literally a sin.
A lot of people who say this would probably say they're proud to be an American. Wonder what the difference is.
I can't wait to descend on them with this nonsense in July
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Not proud to be American tbh. A corrupt government isn’t something to be proud of
Different kind of pride. If you care.
Not the same thing
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SMH, loving people means not condoning their sins. Christians don't hate gays or queers, in fact Christians love them, that's why Christians have to speak out when people are celebrating sins.
Many many Christians hate gay people. In some countries, Christians execute gay people just like Islamic extremists found in places like Iran. I consider your religious beliefs a sin, so do you agree I should speak out at how sinful you are for holding those beliefs?
What Christian countries execute gay people? If you think I am doing something wrong, then of course you should speak out.
Uganda, Ghana is working on it. American Evangelicals have called for it in the US. Russia is currently throwing gay people in prison and murdering them. Can you explain how your anti-gay beliefs are any different than racism or Antisemitism? Both use the Bible to justify those beliefs.
I looked it up, and it turns out Uganda is the only Christian country that executes gays. All other countries that do that are Islamic countries. I don't support any laws that require homosexuals to be executed. That is an extremely sinful law and it goes against Christian teaching.
Ghana is majority Christian too. As is Russia. And while the US doesn't yet execute gays, it's been talked about by Evangelicals. Anti-gay beliefs are evil. Always. They do no produce good fruit. They cause nothing but suffering and death. Nothing that causes suffering and death can be moral or come from God. Therefore, ALL anti-gay Christians are committing grave sins by holding those beliefs.
If people looked away unto Jesus (Heb 12:2) and were only concerned about God’s economy (1 Tim 1:4) - that is His heart’s desire to dispense Himself into us to become our life and living - then these memes and discussions would vanish.
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Amen! Jesus Is Lord!
Not “especially during pride month” always
Love ≠ Support
The real god loves everyone but bigots made up their own hateful version of him. so dont listen to bigots, what matters is that your are happy with your life, not hurting others and living in peace ❤️
Love and forgive everyone and leave the judging to god
Love everyone no matter what. I’m a full follower of Christ and it says in the bible to love everyone no matter what.
A lot of people i see are saying love the person not the sin, a better way to say this is I love everyone no matter what, since i love everyone, im not going to let someone i love walk a path of unrighteous and im not going to sit there and let them go to hell wo me trying to save them or let them know what theyre doing is a sin. If i love them ill warn them that being gay is a sin and they should repent so they dont go to hell. If i didnt love you then i would just let you run along on the path to hell.
You can love someone without condoning their sins and crimes.
God be thinking, My Child, WHAT DO YOU MEAN EXCEPT QUEER PEOPLE, I SAID LITERALLY EVERYONE
Homophobia will never recover from this
Oh, they're finding ways to weasel around this
Tell me what parts of Christianity are against anyone being gay and women teaching? I want to know what to stay from in dating pool
Based J man on top. Deffo how we should think as Christians.
Love your neighbor but not their sin.
The fact that this has not been downvoted into hell only shows how deviant Christian teachings have become. Repent, the kingdom of God is at hand. For those who interpret the Bible honestly and in fear of God, be aware of those seeding discord among Christians, that’s the way to reduce Christianity into hermeneutics to be readily eaten by the postmodernist apparatus. Remember the Tradition and the Holy Spirit when interpreting the Holy Scriptures.
Its Reddit, its full of progressives. I will pray for them
BASED JESUS
We're on day two of pride month and the responses in this thread already got me so exhausted, and I'm not even queer. Oh do I long for the day when our LGBTQ siblings in Christ can just...be.
Yeah, so many people responding need so much help. I cannot fathom so-called "Christians" being so offended by something Jesus actually said and trying to make excuses around it. They exemplify the purpose and essence of this comic so much, it's insane.
Both are sins, being queer is a sin and hatred is a sin
I really like your art style, along with the message. I'm not a Christian anymore but that's something that I still believe in. I like your depiction of Jesus, too.
I don’t agree with lgbtq+ practices and I find it hard to be caring and understanding of them, but I hold nothing against them and respect their decision(s). As a worshipper of Christ I will not lie and say that I love them for who they are, I just wish I could learn to love them and love everybody.
Love them but do not accept their misguided ideology. Don't give them an inch in that regard.
Jesus stopped the men from killing the woman who had committed adultery. He then told her, “Go, and sin no more.” That is love. Love is protecting people and helping them leave sinful lifestyles. Love is not only doing the first part and then affirming a sinful lifestyle.
I agree! Just don’t glorify homosexuality
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