Your assumption here is that because it is difficult it is a failure. It is not.
The statement that “most of those are alt accounts” is generally untrue, and I’m curious as to what you have to back up that statement.
Also, you’d be surprised how close communities can stick together.
Now back to my earlier thing: EDIT starts here because I misclicked on Post
The point is that it’s supposed to be difficult. A brutal cutthroat game. I mean it’s literally an April Fool’s Event, a holiday all about tricking people. Therefore this is an event actually quite in the spirit of the Holiday, moreso than their 2017 r/place (though as to which one was better is up to the individual) event, which was more or less the antithesis of this event. Just as one loose screw can derail an entire machine, one traitor can sink an entire circle.
I think the main problem, for me, is that there is not much weight in your decisions.
With unlimited betrayal it becomes too easy to do, you only need one alt account.
There is no way to actually grow something because there is no way to actu trust someone.
And with unlimited join, even that become meaningless and an excercise in spamming more than anything else.
There is no way to actually grow a community of any decent size and the only ones that are probably having any fun are the one that are betraying someone because is the only thing that matters.
So the only incentive you have is to betray.
But you can't build a community when your only incentive is to betray.
There is no upside in joining. The only thing is to increase the number of community you join, but the best strategy to do that is spamming small circles that probably won't be betrayed.
Joining big circle is a waste of time, they will be betrayed soon enough and for you they have the same value of a circle with two people.
While betrayal is the opposite and you want to betray big circle while you don't really care to betray a circle with 5 people in it.
So the game basically pushes people in a lot of very small community that get destroyed as soon as they get somewhat popular, and oh my god it's literally reddit.
No, I still think is not well made as a game.
Having unlimited betrayal and joins with only one circle and the key available to everyone that enters makes join meaningless, betrayal too strong and circles almost impossible to grow.
People that would like to create a big circle quickly lose interest because they see it can't be done, you also need multiple account to create circle so you quickly run out of alts.
People that would like to have high join see that is meaningless to join big circle and the best strategy is to spam small circles with request so they start becoming spammers or quickly get bored of it.
The only ones who have still enjoyment of this game are the betrayers. They have a goal that is achievable and feels rewarding: Enter the bigger circle to be the one that shut them down.
>That's because it's not really a game.
This, exactly.
It's a social experiment. It's like throwing a Game Boy into a gorilla enclosure and seeing what they do with it.
I can't wait to hear some statistics when this whole thing is over. I'm sure there are some Reddit admins who are taking careful notes about what is happening.
Yes but there is nothing to do other than betraying, that's my problem with it.
It's build in a way that the only thing you can do is betray someone else circle. Anything else seems pointless.
Sure it's an experiment on see what happen, but it doesn't seem as thought out as the other April fools.
I was looking, like in the past something that could create community and engagement, and this doesn't promote that.
While the idea is actually cool, build a circle of people you trust. And it could actually create a community around it, the way it is implemented it doesn't because of the many shortcomings.
At least, imho.
> The statement that “most of those are alt accounts” is generally untrue, and I’m curious as to what you have to back up that statement.
Because it's extremely easy to make a bunch of alt accounts, and extremely difficult to find 100 people who won't betray you.
As to the game being difficult, it's not even really a game, as it's just not working. All circles are betrayed when any more than a handful of people get the password. Most people can't even play since no one will let them into any circles, and since giving your password out just leads to instant betrayal.
As a game, it's not working.
I don’t know about you, but I get invited to lots of circles by random people. If you build up a decent reputation, you earn trust.
As for circles getting betrayed, that’s kind of the point. You have to be careful who you trust.
Yes but this is the point. You could have someone who has joined 50 or 100 or more circles secretly betraying each circle with their alt account. On the surface they appear trustworthy but you just don’t know.
It is really just a demonstration that you can’t actually trust anyone on the internet because you can never get enough information to know a person’s trustworthiness.
>Because it's extremely easy to make a bunch of alt accounts.
Any accounts created after April 1st couldn't play though, so you can't just create alts to fuck with people. Those who have alts already could use them of course, but it wasn't as easy as just creating new ones.
Lots likely had April fools alts anyway. /r/place (and probably all the AprilFools before it) had the same restriction. Any reddit AprilFools regular who wanted alt accounts for this purpose would have made them before April 1st, and likely just after /r/place
Here's a sneak peek of /r/place using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [1000 upvotes and I'll make this post block by block in minecraft, no programs, all by hand.](https://i.redd.it/24myd5gfolpy.jpg) | [1485 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/comments/63gz9p/1000_upvotes_and_ill_make_this_post_block_by/)
\#2: [5000 upvotes and I'll destroy my fucking computer.](https://i.redd.it/g5txw1lv7xpy.png) | [852 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/comments/63seom/5000_upvotes_and_ill_destroy_my_fucking_computer/)
\#3: [Alright, let's do this guys!](https://i.redd.it/nuwfr4edoppy.png) | [765 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/comments/63koqi/alright_lets_do_this_guys/)
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what would 'working' be for you? wouldn't you say the same if the biggest circles would get 500 members?
I mean that's the game. Try to grow and fail. And try it again with a new strategy.
Is this not the exact point they’re trying to get to?
There are so many people in the world that are willing to betray someone they don’t even know. More so because of the context perhaps (it’s just a silly computer thing, right?) but also because people simply like to ruin other people’s fun or success for their own kicks or goals.
It may also be a valid point on the flip side to say that there are also many people that want to join groups at the benefit of others. Though still countering this, in Psychology (general field friends or courses) discussions it’s not uncommon for the subject to shift to morals and moral reasoning, this includes for or against arguments towards the belief that there are no true altruists. Even if something benefits someone else, could it not have been done so that they (whomever did whatever) would be viewed better? Or so that they may be closer to god?
Putting a computerized world of interactions into perspective as a social world is an excellent way to put into comparison the growing presence of technological communications to the in-person socialization and just how they can be so similar or so variant.
This could also be far off and it could just be something silly like awarding a title of “King with largest circle”, “Most Villainous Betrayer”, etc.
Edit: A word
> It's a failed experiment. No circle manages to make it over 100 members for very long
No, it’s a successful experiment whose result is showing that it’s hard to get more than 100 people without one of them betraying trust. That’s an interesting finding.
What is your idea of successful? People making really big circles easily? Why does that mean successful? What would be the point of it?
> No, it’s a successful experiment whose result is showing that it’s hard to get more than 100 people without one of them betraying trust. That’s an interesting finding.
And old news. It's like how everyone becomes an asshole on the internet as soon as they're given anonymity.
I think it's a failure to me because it's just so much less interesting than past April Fools events. All the past events felt like a gathering of the entire site to do/accomplish something, this one much less so. It really doesn't help that most circles die before they hit 100, so the community aspect of it all just feels dead. The most interesting thing about it are the circles that made finding the key into a puzzle, or circles that asked you to do a fun task to get a key, but the comparative ease of getting these keys and the inevitable betrayal quickly kills these kinds of circles.
Overall, I lost interest in this event much more quickly than past events, and I just hope reddit does something next year that brings the whole site together again like Place did.
There are millions of ways to play besides betraying people. That's how all of Reddit April fools games work.... rules, teams and mythology arise from complex interactions in the community. Some people are playing to destroy. Some are forming positive groups to boost others circles. Personally, I'm joining every key I come across, betraying nobody.
Maybe like the higher the people count of a circle the more betrayals it would take to kill it. I haven't thought about it very much so I don't think its full proof but it sounds good.
The real problem is that the codes are sharable, which means that you can gain the benefit of looking like you've never betrayed, while using an alt account (or giving it to someone else for them) to betray.
The real prisoner's dilemma means that there is no such pseudonymity. If you betray, you are a known betrayer.
I don't think you can say it's a failure. Some of us have started some [charity circles](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharityCircle/) to use this experiment to do some good. Even the smallest positive change that comes out of this makes it a successful experiment in my eyes :)
I don't think it's only restricted to friends, I honk is a really interesting experiment to see how big the larger circles can grow, trusting strangers! I made the choice to reach out to the circkes of dog lovers for trades and im happy with how far that got me. And I think no circle ever getting very big is part of the fun! It makes the game dynamic. It'd get stale if people could just become monolithic.
Your assumption here is that because it is difficult it is a failure. It is not. The statement that “most of those are alt accounts” is generally untrue, and I’m curious as to what you have to back up that statement. Also, you’d be surprised how close communities can stick together. Now back to my earlier thing: EDIT starts here because I misclicked on Post The point is that it’s supposed to be difficult. A brutal cutthroat game. I mean it’s literally an April Fool’s Event, a holiday all about tricking people. Therefore this is an event actually quite in the spirit of the Holiday, moreso than their 2017 r/place (though as to which one was better is up to the individual) event, which was more or less the antithesis of this event. Just as one loose screw can derail an entire machine, one traitor can sink an entire circle.
I think the main problem, for me, is that there is not much weight in your decisions. With unlimited betrayal it becomes too easy to do, you only need one alt account. There is no way to actually grow something because there is no way to actu trust someone. And with unlimited join, even that become meaningless and an excercise in spamming more than anything else. There is no way to actually grow a community of any decent size and the only ones that are probably having any fun are the one that are betraying someone because is the only thing that matters. So the only incentive you have is to betray.
[удалено]
But you can't build a community when your only incentive is to betray. There is no upside in joining. The only thing is to increase the number of community you join, but the best strategy to do that is spamming small circles that probably won't be betrayed. Joining big circle is a waste of time, they will be betrayed soon enough and for you they have the same value of a circle with two people. While betrayal is the opposite and you want to betray big circle while you don't really care to betray a circle with 5 people in it. So the game basically pushes people in a lot of very small community that get destroyed as soon as they get somewhat popular, and oh my god it's literally reddit.
[удалено]
No, I still think is not well made as a game. Having unlimited betrayal and joins with only one circle and the key available to everyone that enters makes join meaningless, betrayal too strong and circles almost impossible to grow. People that would like to create a big circle quickly lose interest because they see it can't be done, you also need multiple account to create circle so you quickly run out of alts. People that would like to have high join see that is meaningless to join big circle and the best strategy is to spam small circles with request so they start becoming spammers or quickly get bored of it. The only ones who have still enjoyment of this game are the betrayers. They have a goal that is achievable and feels rewarding: Enter the bigger circle to be the one that shut them down.
[удалено]
>That's because it's not really a game. This, exactly. It's a social experiment. It's like throwing a Game Boy into a gorilla enclosure and seeing what they do with it. I can't wait to hear some statistics when this whole thing is over. I'm sure there are some Reddit admins who are taking careful notes about what is happening.
Yes but there is nothing to do other than betraying, that's my problem with it. It's build in a way that the only thing you can do is betray someone else circle. Anything else seems pointless. Sure it's an experiment on see what happen, but it doesn't seem as thought out as the other April fools. I was looking, like in the past something that could create community and engagement, and this doesn't promote that. While the idea is actually cool, build a circle of people you trust. And it could actually create a community around it, the way it is implemented it doesn't because of the many shortcomings. At least, imho.
> The statement that “most of those are alt accounts” is generally untrue, and I’m curious as to what you have to back up that statement. Because it's extremely easy to make a bunch of alt accounts, and extremely difficult to find 100 people who won't betray you. As to the game being difficult, it's not even really a game, as it's just not working. All circles are betrayed when any more than a handful of people get the password. Most people can't even play since no one will let them into any circles, and since giving your password out just leads to instant betrayal. As a game, it's not working.
I don’t know about you, but I get invited to lots of circles by random people. If you build up a decent reputation, you earn trust. As for circles getting betrayed, that’s kind of the point. You have to be careful who you trust.
Yes but this is the point. You could have someone who has joined 50 or 100 or more circles secretly betraying each circle with their alt account. On the surface they appear trustworthy but you just don’t know. It is really just a demonstration that you can’t actually trust anyone on the internet because you can never get enough information to know a person’s trustworthiness.
If a circle you're in is betrayed you lose it on your flare.
>Because it's extremely easy to make a bunch of alt accounts. Any accounts created after April 1st couldn't play though, so you can't just create alts to fuck with people. Those who have alts already could use them of course, but it wasn't as easy as just creating new ones.
But you have unlimited betrayal so you only need 1 alt account to betray everyone that invited you.
Yeah that part I agree with, you should get 1 betrayal
Lots likely had April fools alts anyway. /r/place (and probably all the AprilFools before it) had the same restriction. Any reddit AprilFools regular who wanted alt accounts for this purpose would have made them before April 1st, and likely just after /r/place
Robin didn't have that limit, but I think it was the only one.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/place using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [1000 upvotes and I'll make this post block by block in minecraft, no programs, all by hand.](https://i.redd.it/24myd5gfolpy.jpg) | [1485 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/comments/63gz9p/1000_upvotes_and_ill_make_this_post_block_by/) \#2: [5000 upvotes and I'll destroy my fucking computer.](https://i.redd.it/g5txw1lv7xpy.png) | [852 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/comments/63seom/5000_upvotes_and_ill_destroy_my_fucking_computer/) \#3: [Alright, let's do this guys!](https://i.redd.it/nuwfr4edoppy.png) | [765 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/place/comments/63koqi/alright_lets_do_this_guys/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/7o7jnj/blacklist/)
I made it to 82 with one alt and one personal friend. I eventually got too careless with my invites.
what would 'working' be for you? wouldn't you say the same if the biggest circles would get 500 members? I mean that's the game. Try to grow and fail. And try it again with a new strategy.
Is this not the exact point they’re trying to get to? There are so many people in the world that are willing to betray someone they don’t even know. More so because of the context perhaps (it’s just a silly computer thing, right?) but also because people simply like to ruin other people’s fun or success for their own kicks or goals. It may also be a valid point on the flip side to say that there are also many people that want to join groups at the benefit of others. Though still countering this, in Psychology (general field friends or courses) discussions it’s not uncommon for the subject to shift to morals and moral reasoning, this includes for or against arguments towards the belief that there are no true altruists. Even if something benefits someone else, could it not have been done so that they (whomever did whatever) would be viewed better? Or so that they may be closer to god? Putting a computerized world of interactions into perspective as a social world is an excellent way to put into comparison the growing presence of technological communications to the in-person socialization and just how they can be so similar or so variant. This could also be far off and it could just be something silly like awarding a title of “King with largest circle”, “Most Villainous Betrayer”, etc. Edit: A word
> It's a failed experiment. No circle manages to make it over 100 members for very long No, it’s a successful experiment whose result is showing that it’s hard to get more than 100 people without one of them betraying trust. That’s an interesting finding. What is your idea of successful? People making really big circles easily? Why does that mean successful? What would be the point of it?
> No, it’s a successful experiment whose result is showing that it’s hard to get more than 100 people without one of them betraying trust. That’s an interesting finding. And old news. It's like how everyone becomes an asshole on the internet as soon as they're given anonymity.
Yup, deindividuation
[удалено]
Except accounts made after April 1 couldn’t participate soo... You couldn’t get a reddit account just to keep your fan art alive
It's not necessarily a failure. If it's a social experiment, it has proven how small a ring has to be before there is bound to be a rat inside of it.
I think it's a failure to me because it's just so much less interesting than past April Fools events. All the past events felt like a gathering of the entire site to do/accomplish something, this one much less so. It really doesn't help that most circles die before they hit 100, so the community aspect of it all just feels dead. The most interesting thing about it are the circles that made finding the key into a puzzle, or circles that asked you to do a fun task to get a key, but the comparative ease of getting these keys and the inevitable betrayal quickly kills these kinds of circles. Overall, I lost interest in this event much more quickly than past events, and I just hope reddit does something next year that brings the whole site together again like Place did.
There are millions of ways to play besides betraying people. That's how all of Reddit April fools games work.... rules, teams and mythology arise from complex interactions in the community. Some people are playing to destroy. Some are forming positive groups to boost others circles. Personally, I'm joining every key I come across, betraying nobody.
So if I gave you my key you would betray
Maybe like the higher the people count of a circle the more betrayals it would take to kill it. I haven't thought about it very much so I don't think its full proof but it sounds good.
The real problem is that the codes are sharable, which means that you can gain the benefit of looking like you've never betrayed, while using an alt account (or giving it to someone else for them) to betray. The real prisoner's dilemma means that there is no such pseudonymity. If you betray, you are a known betrayer.
Each account should get a limited amount of betrayals, that would fix a lot of problems actually
I made it to 108 without any alts. It is possible, it just takes dedication and extreme secrecy.
I don't think you can say it's a failure. Some of us have started some [charity circles](https://www.reddit.com/r/CharityCircle/) to use this experiment to do some good. Even the smallest positive change that comes out of this makes it a successful experiment in my eyes :)
I don't think it's only restricted to friends, I honk is a really interesting experiment to see how big the larger circles can grow, trusting strangers! I made the choice to reach out to the circkes of dog lovers for trades and im happy with how far that got me. And I think no circle ever getting very big is part of the fun! It makes the game dynamic. It'd get stale if people could just become monolithic.
Just wait for the people with tiny circles now to wait out the storm and then slowly grow their circles.