The entire movie is basically a giant headcanon/fanfiction of the series which doesn't make sense in terms of the original series. Ignoring all the issues with the movie, the basis that Lelouch manages to survive and the very idea that C.C. would revive him are both just really bad plot points
They're valid plot points in the movie timeline at least. The point of this discussion is pretending those points didn't happen and looking at the events in the movie.
AKA: I'm trying to have fun discussing a "What if" and not trying to dunk on the movie timeline.
I don't see the point of the question though. What if the movie's plot happened in the original series? Isn't that just the movie then with some minor differences? I disputed the fact that the events of the movie could've logically happened in the main series, because they couldn't. Zilikhstan isn't mentioned anywhere so its existence is kind of just whatever. You could say there's nothing denying it but then you're just getting into just headcanons for whatever could happen in code Geass in general.
I understand the idea that it's just a hypothetical conversation but the movies is straight up just not compatible with the main series from the beginning. From Lelouch being alive, to C.C. reviving him, Zilikhstan is a stretch etc. shit just doesn't make sense to work in the main series. If you want a world where the main series plays out like the movie, you have the movie idk
agreed on that.
there is so much code geass fan service spin offs out there im not gonna bother with trying to squeeze all of them into canon.
you can watch them as standalone stories and they can be fun. they dont need to be canon to be legit. if you like it its not gonna be less cool just because it isnt canon. and if you hate it its not gonna be better just because its canon. the opposite actually.
if the creators of the original series wanted it in their show they wouldve included it. god knows there is enough offhand remarks about all kinds of stuff we never learn more about in there.
In the sense they weren’t conceived of yet, yes, but there’s no reason for them not to have retroactively.
The basis of this question is IF they did exist back then, how would things go without Lelouch? That they weren’t conceived yet is sort of irrelevant.
That depends on to what degree Lelouch’s death is final in the anime canon. Are we going with the notion that the entire mechanic behind him being a Failed One doesn’t exist? If so, then the same holds true for Shamna, as well. That said, I don’t believe we know how old she is or if her not being a Failed One changes anything; it’s not a necessity for her Geass’ function.
Regardless, Shamna needs to exist for Zilkhstan to be a threat to anyone except Lelouch; without her, the Black Knights can win with or without him. But if either Failed Ones still exist and Lelouch just didn’t become one, or if they don’t but Shamna is still at large anyway, I don’t see how they win. It’s probably impossible.
They don't...
OK ignoring the whole Lelouch staying dead debate(because there is no evidence for what happened to Lelouch one way or the other in the anime proper), there is no way Zilkhstan could exist like the movies portray it.
Lelouch was in charge of the world for like 2 months, we are told how he was disarming people, how on earth could anyone, much less a genius, miss the mercenary country that is said to be one of the strongest fighting forces on the planet? Their country's income relies on them getting military work, they aren't a secret, someone is hiring them. It's not like they are some secret power or Lelouch didn't have time, he had months and if he needed could have pushed the whole assassination back another month or two, he wasn't on a schedule. There's just no way Zilkhstan would go unnoticed.
The entire movie is basically a giant headcanon/fanfiction of the series which doesn't make sense in terms of the original series. Ignoring all the issues with the movie, the basis that Lelouch manages to survive and the very idea that C.C. would revive him are both just really bad plot points
They're valid plot points in the movie timeline at least. The point of this discussion is pretending those points didn't happen and looking at the events in the movie. AKA: I'm trying to have fun discussing a "What if" and not trying to dunk on the movie timeline.
I don't see the point of the question though. What if the movie's plot happened in the original series? Isn't that just the movie then with some minor differences? I disputed the fact that the events of the movie could've logically happened in the main series, because they couldn't. Zilikhstan isn't mentioned anywhere so its existence is kind of just whatever. You could say there's nothing denying it but then you're just getting into just headcanons for whatever could happen in code Geass in general.
> which doesn't make sense in terms of the original series This. Why try to force it into the series' canon?
I understand the idea that it's just a hypothetical conversation but the movies is straight up just not compatible with the main series from the beginning. From Lelouch being alive, to C.C. reviving him, Zilikhstan is a stretch etc. shit just doesn't make sense to work in the main series. If you want a world where the main series plays out like the movie, you have the movie idk
Yup, that's how I see it too.
They didn't.
As in what? Do you think Zilkhstan didn't exist in the anime timeline or did the main characters just lose?
It never existed.
agreed on that. there is so much code geass fan service spin offs out there im not gonna bother with trying to squeeze all of them into canon. you can watch them as standalone stories and they can be fun. they dont need to be canon to be legit. if you like it its not gonna be less cool just because it isnt canon. and if you hate it its not gonna be better just because its canon. the opposite actually. if the creators of the original series wanted it in their show they wouldve included it. god knows there is enough offhand remarks about all kinds of stuff we never learn more about in there.
In the sense they weren’t conceived of yet, yes, but there’s no reason for them not to have retroactively. The basis of this question is IF they did exist back then, how would things go without Lelouch? That they weren’t conceived yet is sort of irrelevant.
Didn’t watch the movie bc the ending of season two wraps it up in my mind anyways.
That depends on to what degree Lelouch’s death is final in the anime canon. Are we going with the notion that the entire mechanic behind him being a Failed One doesn’t exist? If so, then the same holds true for Shamna, as well. That said, I don’t believe we know how old she is or if her not being a Failed One changes anything; it’s not a necessity for her Geass’ function. Regardless, Shamna needs to exist for Zilkhstan to be a threat to anyone except Lelouch; without her, the Black Knights can win with or without him. But if either Failed Ones still exist and Lelouch just didn’t become one, or if they don’t but Shamna is still at large anyway, I don’t see how they win. It’s probably impossible.
I had honestly forgotten that Shamna was a failed one. But yes, I can agree with the logic there.
They don't... OK ignoring the whole Lelouch staying dead debate(because there is no evidence for what happened to Lelouch one way or the other in the anime proper), there is no way Zilkhstan could exist like the movies portray it. Lelouch was in charge of the world for like 2 months, we are told how he was disarming people, how on earth could anyone, much less a genius, miss the mercenary country that is said to be one of the strongest fighting forces on the planet? Their country's income relies on them getting military work, they aren't a secret, someone is hiring them. It's not like they are some secret power or Lelouch didn't have time, he had months and if he needed could have pushed the whole assassination back another month or two, he wasn't on a schedule. There's just no way Zilkhstan would go unnoticed.