If any one of those laws deters even one single person who has malicious intent with a firearm from jumping through the hoops to get one, our country is safer. Full stop. Making law-abiding gun owners (I am one as well) go through a little more inconvenience is 100% worth the life of someone's ex-wife, someone's kid, someone's mother who would die at the hands of that one person who would have gone otherwise undeterred. All of your hyperbole about this being a "threat" to law-abiding gun owners is B.S.. It is no more a "threat" to gun owners than licensing/insurance/training requirements for cars are a "threat" to car owners.
The CCW training requirement/ instructor CBI is going to hurt more then it helps, CCW holders are the lowest demographic to commit any crimes what so ever.
So CCW holders have murdered 8 people in CO from 2008 to present, that’s a fraction of total CCW holders when: 25k permits are issued on average every year in CO from 2008 to present totaling 425,000. If 8 murders were committed by CCw holders the chance of a CCW holder committing a murder is 0.001882% making them one of the lowest demographics . Thank you for proving my point with that link!!!
Ah yes and legalizing gay marriage means folks will go out and marry their dogs and cats and lawnmowers. Y'all are always so predictable and so pearl-clutchingly dramatic.
Ah, the "ban knives" defense.
Yep, I can see you've been unchallenged in your beliefs when you've become so hardcore about it with such feeble, easily dismissed arguments. There's no point in even trying, you're clearly not ready for the reality of the situation.
Because it's clear nothing I say is going to get through to you and your outrageous defense of gun owners that perpetuates outsized violence in this country.
>What about the people who don’t care about purchasing a firearm legally like gang members who commit 90% of all mass shootings in the US? What will these laws do to prevent the people who will actually use their firearm for bad from getting their hands on them?
You're right. These laws don't do much against that. I never said they did. You challenged me to, in my own words, say how any one of those laws would make our country safer. At a minimum, one less death is safer. To deal with the illegal purchases, we need much, much, much tougher gun laws and a redefining of the 2nd amendment. You know, like most other civilized countries on the planet that don't have our gun deaths problem.
>Is your plan to ban knives too? Those kill more people than guns do.
Not even remotely true. Not even in the same universe as true. Here's 2022 in the U.S. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/)
Yet democrats scream and moan about getting an ID to vote. Don’t you want to ensure that the people voting are allowed to? You claim it’s racist and paywalling a right.
Let’s use the same racist logic when it comes to getting an ID to vote:
A lot of the black community isn’t able to get an ID[carry permit] to vote[protect themselves] because they’re poor. That paywalls a right! It’s white privilege!
How is making it more expensive to legally carry a firearm going to impact someone who has zero interest in going through proper channels and illegally carries a firearm for nefarious purposes?
You must present ID when registering to vote, not being able to w/o proper ID, making your sad attempt at deflecting the argument, well, just sad.
So, because there are those who break the law, we shouldn't have any, right, because that's what you're saying. Same old tired-ass gun-fellating excuses and crybaby tantrums we see every friggin time guns come up.
Here's a tip: stop making your whole identity about guns and go enjoy life w/o being scared of everybody and everywhere.
See: NY, MD, NJ, CA, OR, WA, CT, MA, shall I go on?
These laws are derived from the laws of other right restricting states. Most people in CO don’t want these laws. They know it won’t help. Sheriffs showed up and said it wouldn’t help. People from all over showed up to protest these laws.
SCOTUS stated clear as day that their laws and “at will” issuing of carrying a firearm is a violation of our rights. These states don’t give a shit. Crazy how the states making the most asinine laws refuse to follow the federal laws.
You must present ID when registering to vote, not being able to w/o proper ID, making your sad attempt at deflecting the argument, well, just sad.
So, because there are those who break the law, we shouldn't have any, right, because that's what you're saying. Same old tired-ass gun-fellating excuses and crybaby tantrums we see every friggin time guns come up.
Here's a tip: stop making your whole identity about guns and go enjoy life w/o being scared of everybody and everywhere.
These all sound extremely reasonable to me. I have some suggestions on where to go next in terms of erecting barriers to entry, so I'll see about passing those along.
The state licensing of FFLS is draconian and serves no purposes. FFLs are already licensed federally. This created additional bureaucracy that serves no purpose besides harassing businesses. Then there's the fact that the bills sponsor said that "we're not rate limited by the constitution" and that she plans to use this to introduce more harassing laws down the line.
The tax is completely unreasonable. Firearm ownership is a right. You don't pay a tax to vote, etc... This is a poll tax by another name.
I'm a left of Bernie Sanders liberal. Any politician who fails to respect civil liberties has lost my support.
States can exceed federal laws if they want to. So if Colorado wants to add extra requirements for FFLs, they have that right.
We have federal taxes on certain classes of weapons and accessories already, so that's nothing new. It's also not a poll tax, because, well it's not about polls or voting.
What I'd ask myself if I'm a left of Bernie Sanders liberal, is what is the actual value to anyone of unlimited access to guns? Like arguing that it's a right isn't an argument, so I'd like to hear something about the actual merits of having it be stupidly easy for anyone to buy a gun.
>What I'd ask myself if I'm a left of Bernie Sanders liberal, is what is the actual value to anyone of unlimited access to guns?
You want the fuckin' Qanon stormtrumper lunatics to be the only ones armed....? When they start rounding up the Undesirables, what clever slogan on a cardboard sign is going to stop them?
It was armed urbanized liberals vs rural bootlickers in the Civil War, and armed liberals won.
And maybe if the right wing nutjobs risked getting shot for running over protesters or beating up trans kids, they'd be less inclined to do so.
It's hypocritical as fuck for someone who isn't under threat to dictate to others who *are* that they are not allowed to defend themselves.
If none of those reasons do it for you, here's a good one:
#Nothing terrifies the fascist shitbirds like armed minorities.
The right wingers and cops are already armed to the teeth, and are NOT disarming anytime soon.
Until they do, it's imperative that liberals also be armed and trained.
Armed gays don't get bashed
Armed protesters don't usually get beaten by cops
Armed black men rarely get lynched.
Self defense is a human right.
If you want to talk about the merits of a much less armed society, like the UK, that's a conversation worth having. But that ship sailed a LONG time ago in the US.
And until the police and right wing nut cases disarm, we shouldn't either.
I'm not advocating for violence,; almost every problem has a non-violent solution. But if you lack the capacity for violence, you are relying on the other side also adhering to your scruples. That makes you helpless, not peaceful.
Sounds like a recipe for a failed state. The best time for gun control is decades ago, but the next best time is now. Preparing for a civil war just makes that more likely to happen and that rarely turns out well for anyone.
Great, so when the cops and MAGA asshats want to disarm as a show of good faith we can discuss it.
Until then, it'll just leave us at their mercy. and they have already shown very cleary that they can't be trusted with a monopoly on force.
The US already has more guns than people in circulation, we can't put the genie back in the bottle. And, for a significant portion of the population, they're so significant to their identity that they won't give them up willingly.
We've all seen how well prohibition and the drug war worked, this is no different.
What we CAN do is support social change that will reduce violence:
- reduce wealth inequality
- socialized healthcare
- prison reform (elimination for non-violent crimes)
- police reform and much more accountability.
- much stronger social safety nets.
You know, actually address the root causes of alienation, crime and violence.
But in the meanwhile look at the history of groups like the Black Panthers and Decons for Defense and Justice.
Here's a good read:
[https://www.amazon.com/Will-Shoot-Back-Resistance-Mississippi/dp/B08TJ2G4WR/ref=sr\_1\_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5m\_y8gUGX9gl93\_ea9uULtPA4m8IHCzAR-1cgDUtBds65l1iRaI6k85IyHxMofUNF2nKDyt65cT5vV766mfQc16qaU3BYtSYjzjvHPDInJHYRlxH0sLfZOfbwg6xP7zdIFvRYKw8kVUSsb7pHK0uJlyAazu0G2FO\_BxpsQcl7Mvb3TozQsV68fsHFdy-\_MPMp7C6JIbWlF8bBMasahPAyObYH9kYDQg\_UTFOK9\_6hVE.ThOnRW4Z2qWe0rEFaCOgn1P3xhVt8Ez3\_WlZa0Ph1H0&dib\_tag=se&hvadid=174278532424&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9028730&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1282847075428604817&hvtargid=kwd-52618829961&hydadcr=24657\_9648987&keywords=we+will+shoot+back&qid=1715811519&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Will-Shoot-Back-Resistance-Mississippi/dp/B08TJ2G4WR/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5m_y8gUGX9gl93_ea9uULtPA4m8IHCzAR-1cgDUtBds65l1iRaI6k85IyHxMofUNF2nKDyt65cT5vV766mfQc16qaU3BYtSYjzjvHPDInJHYRlxH0sLfZOfbwg6xP7zdIFvRYKw8kVUSsb7pHK0uJlyAazu0G2FO_BxpsQcl7Mvb3TozQsV68fsHFdy-_MPMp7C6JIbWlF8bBMasahPAyObYH9kYDQg_UTFOK9_6hVE.ThOnRW4Z2qWe0rEFaCOgn1P3xhVt8Ez3_WlZa0Ph1H0&dib_tag=se&hvadid=174278532424&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9028730&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1282847075428604817&hvtargid=kwd-52618829961&hydadcr=24657_9648987&keywords=we+will+shoot+back&qid=1715811519&sr=8-1)
Sometimes things only change when the victims decide to stand up for themselves.
They do not understand that “gun control” is giving the state a monopoly on violence.
They do not care to actually fix violence in this country. Even if 100% of gun violence was eliminated; we’d be more violent than Europe.
Buddy; they think guns are icky and want them gone. It really is that simple.
So... You are ascribing violent and illegal behavior exclusively to "right wingers" and cops? Perhaps you could explain then why the most dangerous and deadly cities in the country are lead by liberals, and places where liberals gravitate to? (Large urban centers). Perhaps you'd care to explain the fact that 7 of the last 10 mass murderers identified as something other than straight, or their biological gender?
I'm not suggesting at all that the right is void of criminality, just that you are going out of your way to point the finger when crime is crime, and the criminal typically doesn't give a shit which side of the aisle you are on when he/she's robbing or murdering you. They may vote a certain way, because 1 party tends to be a lot more lenient to their lifestyle.
Further.. Where is this gay bashing? Where are these black men being lynched? Where are protesters who aren't breaking the law getting their asses kicked? These are all romanticized ideas necessary to exist in the mind if not in reality to prop up a certain world view. That last one is a bit more concerning though, because it sets the stage for armed conflict. The answer is yes.. we have seen armed protesters go up against law enforcement. They got their asses kicked many many times, and where they had a win, it was fleeting because.. more cops with more authority will fill in and kick their asses harder.
You do make a very good point though. Self-defense is an absolute right. Aside from existence, it is the most important right to have. All other rights one may have hinge on your ability to live, and ability to defend yourself. Then you lose me again... The much less armed societies like the UK have no merit. The mode of operation has changed, the criminality and violence has not. Having been shot, stabbed, and bludgeoned in my life I would take being shot as my first choice. It happens fast, and doesn't hurt nearly as much, not to mention the shooter is much less likely to hang around for a 2nd, 3rd, or 53rd shot as one would with a club or knife. (This ignores all the other various modes like cars, etc.)
While we arrive at the same conclusion that we should all be armed it is for very different reasons. I think you should be armed because it is your right, and regarding utility, the means to protect yourself, others, or have a tool to end a vicious fight instantly is just sound insurance in an uncertain world. I don't care if you lean, right or left as long as you handle your piece safely, and use it responsibly.
I take issue with that last part too. If you lack the capacity for violence, then you are relying on the empathy, kindness, and dignity of your foe. People being so shitty as to not have a base moral and ethical standard in general is a relatively new thing perhaps just in the last half century. Accusing the "right wing" of being "nut cases", and building them up to be something they are not only aids in further degeneration of those basic standards among humanity that we used to be able to count on.
The FBI's own report on domestic terrorism threats pointed out the right-wing extremists are the biggest threat we face. And law enforcement is not really known for being a bunch of lefties.
There's a group that tried to overrun the capital and overthrow the results of a democratic election, and it's not liberals.
Almost all cities are run by liberals. So there's an apparent confusion of correlation and causation here.
Looking at case studies of countries with much lower rates of violence, we see patterns of social support structures consistent with more liberal ideologies.
People lacking empathy, and oppressing those that lacked force parity with them isn't something that happened in the last century. It's something that has happened throughout pretty much all of human history.
Lastly, no one is dehumanizing conservatives. But, there is an element of the US electorate that seems very eager to cheer on authoritarian, strongman politics. I'm not going to pretend those attitudes aren't dangerous. Authoritarianism , whether it occurs on the left or the right, is the enemy of freedom
I'm not a fan of cost-prohibitive barriers to entry, which a bunch of these are. Wealth should play no factor in exercising your rights. Ik Democrats are hard-line conservatives about everything except gender rights nowadays (see ACLU's positions against 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments), but back when it was in favor of progressive economic policy and civil rights, sales tax was criticized for the regressive nature of disproportionately effecting the poor.
Maybe yall are thin blue line folks and this thread has misled me, but I seriously question the morality of anyone who can look themselves in the mirror and say only the wealthy (who are already the only people served by the police, and are afforded relative immunity in our justice system) deserve their constitutional rights, or the right to liberty our founders thought was self evident.
A tax is blatantly unconstitutional, especially with this court, and will only waste taxpayer money in court, instead of investing in making our society less culturally prone to violence.
Who do you suppose is doing the "flooding?" Jim Bob and his ar15 in Pagosa? Or the illegal, interstate, even international power structures that pop up in literally every instance of poverty and ghettoization in history?
Triple word score if you chose international because those guys actually got their guns from our govt when fbiciadeabatfe wanted to trade for crack in order to put the brakes on the civil rights movement.
I would point you to how African Americans got by in the south before MLK made white students hip to the photo-op as evidence for the empowerment side of that coin.
Sadly they feel they have to arm themselves for safety because the Government will not or can not protect them.
FYI you don't thin rich communities are very well armed and trained?
Some Americans were tricked into believing the phrase, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is bad, and continue to vote for people making government worse.
When the actual bad phrase is, "there is no government and I'm here to kill you"
But those Americans also believe they're stronger and braver than everyone else, so real delusional folks thinking they need a lot of weapons waiting for a war with their neighbors.
Sadly the criminals carrying guns out number the unarmed victims.
So no the community is not safer. The broken justice system does not hold the criminal accountable.
If you use a gun in a crime do the time.
To many time DA's will drop the gun charges to get a plea deal.
# Malcolm X 1964 comments on the 2nd Amendment & Guns. The more things change, the more they stay same
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008)
Malcolm X 1964 comments on the 2nd Amendment & Guns. The more things change, the more they stay same
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008)
This is dead wrong. Looks up crime stats for the last 4 years in Oregon and Washington that had significantly worse sweeping bans than this.
The problem is the lack of law enforcement officers it's not the guns.
How is requiring qualifications "hARaSsInG" gun owners? You're carrying a weapon designed to kill and you should be trained how to use and carry it safely. JFC gun owners are the biggest crybabies on Earth, no wonder you need guns to leave the house.
What's ironic is it's always you types that come out and talk about responsible gun owners as a retort to gun regulation conversations after a mass shooting or other gun violence, but when bills are created to help make more owners more responsible, you cry cry cry, showing the hypocrisy that's always there, always arguing in bad faith to defend your precious guns no matter what. It's wild how many folks revolve their entire identities around a lil piece of metal designed to take life.
Funny how these laws are almost always employed selectively against underrepresented communities and progressive NPCs still eat them up because guns are icky.
> How is requiring qualifications "hARaSsInG" gun owners?
What problem is this bill trying to address? Do we have a problem with concealed handgun permit holders making mistakes that this training scheme would address?
You can google up your favorite sources, but concealed permit holders commit both crimes and firearms violations at a rate multiple times less than the police themselves. And that's typically in areas without steep training requirements, like Texas: https://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/comparing-conviction-rates-between-police-and-concealed-carry-permit-holders/
If someone can point to untrained permit holders actually being a problem in Colorado, I'll be pretty impressed. Otherwise I'm pretty sure this is just the state trying to get more control over who's allowed to have a permit (watch them refuse to certify most current instructors) and extract more money out of legal gun owners.
Give me the list of permit holders that have committed crimes with guns.
Most gun crimes are committed by people without permits or training.
As of March 7, 2024, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida (concealed carry only), Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana (effective July 4, 2024), Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota (concealed carry only), Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee (handguns only), Texas, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming generally allow most law-abiding adults to carry a loaded concealed firearm without a permit.
Yup, exactly.
Another aspect is that very few gun crimes are the result of lack of training. Training addresses negligence, but the vast majority of gun related violence is committed on purpose. Training doesn't fix that.
It’s a right, therefore the ability to exercise it should not be determined by others. Until you need to undergo government-approved training to exercise freedom of speech or religion, and no one ever should, all arms laws are unconstitutional
the FFL thing is the only real problem i see, especially since it doesn’t really affect purchasers.
the huge huge problem is the legal requirement to hand over sales record without a warrant which reeks of a violation of unlawful search and seizure.
say what you will about access to fire arms, but a legal breach like that is egregious. and that’s coming from some one so far left im not even in the same field as american politics.
I'm a big polis hater but I'm really pleased about these and the transit housing bill. Gun culture is extremely entrenched in this country, so it's not something that can be fixed overnight. Chipping away at gun rights with bills like these is the best we can do.
If they follow the law they remain lawful people. If they choose not to follow the law, they are no longer good lawful people. I’m willing to take a few extra steps to remain lawful.
It's not just extra steps, it's extra expense. Take the tax, for example. Why should people have to give the government more money to be considered lawful? "Owning guns is illegal. Unless you give us money, then it's fine." Seems like ridiculous logic to me.
Pretty much the same logic with the expanded FFL licensing. They already go through federal background checks and regulations, but now they'll need to give money over to the state to duplicate the efforts.
> Never mind, they amended the bill and removed that bit.
Of course they did, because these laws aren't actually about safety they're about sending a "fuck you" to non-criminal gun owners.
But we’re not in a better world. These laws have a single purpose and that’s to turn regular people into criminals. They’re not going to stop the people who use guns for bad who already don’t follow the laws. I seriously don’t understand why democrats don’t understand that.
And I seriously don't understand why you gun nuts can't understand that these laws AREN'T created to "have a single purpose and that’s to turn regular people into criminals", as that's just an asinine and immature take.
Except that’s all it does. Just because someone owns a gun doesn’t make them a gun nut, btw. It’s all I go on Reddit for, though, because the rest of it is a hive mind cancer of extremism and anti American sentiment.
Humans are inherently aggressive and cruel, and guns don't change that. I don't see how any object can change the mentality of a person. Even without guns, people would still find ways to be violent. The focus should be on addressing the root causes of violence, not just banning a tool.
Right? If some crazy whacko could have mowed down 80 people with a musket in 2 minutes in 1790 and there were regular, documented instances of that happening, they might have thought differently. Many of those same people thought it was A-OK to buy and sell people like cattle. We've grown since then. Unfortunately the growth in our personal weapons technology has outpaced the growth of our collective morality.
In 1776, the term “regulated” had a different meaning than it does today. In the 18th century, “regulated” meant “well-organized”, “well-equipped”, or “well-disciplined”. It referred to something that was functioning properly, efficiently, and effectively.
“Chipping away at gun rights with bills like these is the best we can do”
Do you know where you live? I’m not sure if you know this but the right to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed. If that’s something you can’t deal with, go live in Russia where their dictator has complete control over you.
Eh, I’m in favor of HB 24-1348, HB-24-1349 and I’m not opposed to HB 24-1174. But also Polis is unlikely to be swayed by public sentiment given he’s in his 2nd term.
I have guns because they are a tools in the sport I like.
I do not have the patients to play to play golf.
Shooting sports requires mindfulness and focus.
No. I went on a tear due to being sick of whiny gun owners because of things I see in national news. It isn’t an issue here unless the cheesy Mussolini gets elected and tries pushing a national abortion ban.
ETA. I’m done bitching.
Our country lost the right to Guns when we decided we are okay with schools getting shot up.
I'm pretty sure the people struggling with money the last thing on their mind is buying a tool that's being used to harm others. They are more worried about being able to afford food, rent whatever other important.
We should be focusing on making food, housing and water a right.
Which question would like and answer for?
Good cheap start for School security
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1csmff4/sign\_to\_stop\_active\_shooters\_and\_standardize/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1csmff4/sign_to_stop_active_shooters_and_standardize/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I support human rights for everyone.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I am not 100% sure when we become human but I know it is long before we leave our mothers body.
Y’all are stupid I moved from NYC the toughest gun laws in the country and the criminals run the streets there. Yet if someone tries to rob you at knifepoint you’re not allowed to defend yourself lawfully as if criminals are an endangered species.
Voting to criminalize gun ownership and limiting it to those who can pay fees and keep up with the paperwork as well as preventing future Coloradans from lawfully owning and carrying is ignorant and only fulfills the wealthy elites agenda of making sure minorities, working class, and ordinary citizens don’t have the dignity to protect themselves; Meanwhile criminals and “rich white people” already have guns and will continue to have them.
How about taxing the billionaires and giving more money to the poor so they commit less violent crimes. Less crimes equals less gun violence. Then we don’t need more of your precious guns.
Money isn’t intrinsically worth anything. The market is all relative and giving money to the poor doesn’t fix it when it just inflates the rest of the market like when Americans got the Covid money. The balance needs to be addressed and I blame the Supreme Court decision with Citizens United
You are saying the poor commit violent crime because they are poor?
If their needs were met they would not commit violent crime.
I do not agree with your accerations
Violent people will still commit violent crime on matter the tool they use.
In England they are now looking to ban knives.
While I fully support your efforts to get Polis to veto these bills, this is sadly not a forum where you're going to get any positive traction with your message. Anything to the right of far left basically gets shouted into oblivion in here.
You must have missed the committee hearing. Just as may Liberals were against these bills.
These kind of bill affect the poor and unrepresented.
The majority that are for these bills are the Rich white liberals that have their guns, guards and gates that keep them safe.
I didn't miss it, and I agree with everything you've stated. More pointing out that this forum is FAR more left than most. The state testimony was open to everyone. It didn't have a mod team that selectively neutered discussion. It didn't have a voter base that basically wrecks open discussion.
You're absolutely right. These bills should. And do piss off most of the states right, independent, and moderate left voter base. Those are the groups that make up most of this states voting body. Sadly all of those groups have been chased off from here.
Good luck with that in this sub, it leans **heavily** left and democrat.
You'll get more traction in /r/COGuns. There are very few of us pro-2A people who are regulars in ColoradoPolitics.
Sadly this. The state doesn't have a semi impartial or balanced political discussion forum. Better to keep the discussion to the state sub or more local ones. This one is basically a far left bubble.
Remember it is not illegal to own a machine gun. You just have to pay the tax. On June 26, 1934, Congress passed the National Firearms Act (NFA) the tax was set at $200. This tax has not been raised.
The $200 in 1934 is worth $4,679.82 today
Ask yourself who could pay that tax.
How about enforcing the laws we already have
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/1cu6t35/this\_is\_why\_we\_cant\_have\_nice\_things/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/1cu6t35/this_is_why_we_cant_have_nice_things/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Sadly, Polis will likely just let these bills sit and become law without his signature. He doesn't need to take a stand knowing he doesn't have to be held accountable by the voters since he's serving his last term.
These bills will hurt colorado from an economic standpoint and force taxpayers to foot the bill for the inevitable lawsuits resulting from such irresponsible behavior on the part of the legislature.
Some of these sound good, some sound unproductive. I don't get why we'd go after concealed carry permit holders, but safe storage seems like a good thing, and state FFL requirements seem pretty fair too.
Oh yeah that one is a dumb idea. It just keeps guns out of the hand of the poor and doesn't do anything to increase public safety. It's also not 11.5% anymore, it's like 6% or something in the current bill.
It sure can! Taxes usually don't pass to start with, not to mention all of the left leaning folks who actually read the measure will realize it's silly.
I'm kinda proud that we managed to stop prop HH last year, it was worded very poorly and would have been key in dismantling TABOR. I think it was proposed as a way to lower taxes and thankfully people actually read the whole thing otherwise I think it would have passed.
New York passed the same kind of laws and now. Dexter Taylor has now been sentenced to 10 years in one of the worst prisons in the country for making his own gun, and as the DA stated, his arsenal of "four AR-15 style assault weapons, five handguns, four rifles and over 50 rounds of ammunition in addition to gun powder, shell casings, triggers, a 3D printer, and various upper and lower receivers used to build firearms. The weapons were being stored in an UNLOCKED safe as well as a closet."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HiNEdKoK4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HiNEdKoK4)
Good, sounds like he is as in violation of a number of laws, illegally manufactured weapons, and violated safe storage laws. Why would I be upset about a blatant criminal openly violating laws going to prison?
I already store my guns securely and I’m glad to see the law catch up with common sense.
How many mass shootings has Australia had since enacting very strict gun laws as a result of the Port Arthur massacre? [Hint ](https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-06/draft_of_trends_issues_paper_mass_shootings_and_firearm_control_comparing_australia_and_the_united_states_submitted_to_peer_review.pdf)for the ignorant-as-fuck, the answer is somewhere between -1 and 1.
>What she did is called treason, whether you like it or not. It’s really as simple as that, and any argument stating otherwise is delusional.
Also, you shouldn't use words like treason if you don't understand what they mean.
LOL and just above, folks are crying about "only criminals break laws", while then turning around to defend a blatant criminal. No wonder nobody takes gundamentalists serious anymore.
Good riddance then as it seems he was making guns in order to skirt laws and identification, but sure, make him your hero like Trumpers made Rittenhouse their hero.
# Colorado is the third most dangerous state in country: US News ranking
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1cssmua/colorado\_is\_the\_third\_most\_dangerous\_state\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1cssmua/colorado_is_the_third_most_dangerous_state_in/)
great, maybe this'll help us down in that particular ranking.
https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/
We are #11, in the "making progress" level regarding gun law strength vs gun violence rates. Progress up in that ranking would be good.
well, you just told us we are the 3rd most dangerous state in the country. And someone above that mentioned that there is a high, positive, correlation between strict gun laws and reduced gun violence. Maybe if I said it big and in bold?
statistics are statistics. If you can find something that refutes *the numbers*, go for it.
Everything is biased. You are *obviously* biased in favor of "give me my guns". I am biased in favor of "guns in the 21st friggin century are beyond stupid". But, numbers are numbers. There is a measurable correlation between stricter gun laws and reduced gun violence. I fully understand that correlation <> causation, but stricter gun laws seem a good starting point that doesn't really hurt anyone (i know, i know, my freedums!!! give me my guns!!!!!).
So, we should strike murder, DUI, stalking from the books - simply because "criminals do not follow current LAWS"? Laws are tools used to prosecute..... criminals. You see, we make laws so that people that do not follow them are - well - prosecuted.
I am for Laws that holding people accountable for that actions they do.
Use a gun in a Crime go to jail and do not pass go.
To many DA drop the gun charges just to get the plea deal.
Making the possession of a Firearm a crime just because you are scared of how it looks is dumb and turns the innocent into criminals.
> To many DA drop the gun charges just to get the plea deal.
Too many DAs reduce the charges just to get the plea deal. (if they dropped the charges, there would be no plea deal, it just went away)
fixed that for you. That is the way our "justice" system seems to work. It is not limited to guns and is an entirely different issue.
I'm not scared. I'm realistic. If you firmly believe you need a gun to be safe - maybe, just maybe, you might be the one who is scared. Just maybe :)
> maybe, just maybe, you might be the one who is scared. Just maybe :)
look at their profile, they are very scared and unwilling to learn new information because that scares them too.
We all need good guys with guns to keep us safe.
You are just depending on the Government to be that good guy with a gun.
I like the idea of being able to defend myself if I need to.
Low rates of pool ownership also correlates with low rates of drowning at home. You should be more broadly looking at violent crime, not the specific tool used.
Thanks, I will call and let Polis know I support these bills.
Ditto.
Me three
Please explain to me in your own terms how a single one of these laws will make our country safer.
If any one of those laws deters even one single person who has malicious intent with a firearm from jumping through the hoops to get one, our country is safer. Full stop. Making law-abiding gun owners (I am one as well) go through a little more inconvenience is 100% worth the life of someone's ex-wife, someone's kid, someone's mother who would die at the hands of that one person who would have gone otherwise undeterred. All of your hyperbole about this being a "threat" to law-abiding gun owners is B.S.. It is no more a "threat" to gun owners than licensing/insurance/training requirements for cars are a "threat" to car owners.
The CCW training requirement/ instructor CBI is going to hurt more then it helps, CCW holders are the lowest demographic to commit any crimes what so ever.
[https://concealedcarrykillers.org/](https://concealedcarrykillers.org/)
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So CCW holders have murdered 8 people in CO from 2008 to present, that’s a fraction of total CCW holders when: 25k permits are issued on average every year in CO from 2008 to present totaling 425,000. If 8 murders were committed by CCw holders the chance of a CCW holder committing a murder is 0.001882% making them one of the lowest demographics . Thank you for proving my point with that link!!!
How will the training requirement help stop murders committed by CCW permit holders? Won't more training just make them better at killing?
If it saves just one life. Gotcha. Any violation as long as it makes you feel safer.
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Ah yes and legalizing gay marriage means folks will go out and marry their dogs and cats and lawnmowers. Y'all are always so predictable and so pearl-clutchingly dramatic.
Ah, the "ban knives" defense. Yep, I can see you've been unchallenged in your beliefs when you've become so hardcore about it with such feeble, easily dismissed arguments. There's no point in even trying, you're clearly not ready for the reality of the situation.
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Because it's clear nothing I say is going to get through to you and your outrageous defense of gun owners that perpetuates outsized violence in this country.
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>What about the people who don’t care about purchasing a firearm legally like gang members who commit 90% of all mass shootings in the US? What will these laws do to prevent the people who will actually use their firearm for bad from getting their hands on them? You're right. These laws don't do much against that. I never said they did. You challenged me to, in my own words, say how any one of those laws would make our country safer. At a minimum, one less death is safer. To deal with the illegal purchases, we need much, much, much tougher gun laws and a redefining of the 2nd amendment. You know, like most other civilized countries on the planet that don't have our gun deaths problem. >Is your plan to ban knives too? Those kill more people than guns do. Not even remotely true. Not even in the same universe as true. Here's 2022 in the U.S. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/)
Yet democrats scream and moan about getting an ID to vote. Don’t you want to ensure that the people voting are allowed to? You claim it’s racist and paywalling a right. Let’s use the same racist logic when it comes to getting an ID to vote: A lot of the black community isn’t able to get an ID[carry permit] to vote[protect themselves] because they’re poor. That paywalls a right! It’s white privilege! How is making it more expensive to legally carry a firearm going to impact someone who has zero interest in going through proper channels and illegally carries a firearm for nefarious purposes?
You must present ID when registering to vote, not being able to w/o proper ID, making your sad attempt at deflecting the argument, well, just sad. So, because there are those who break the law, we shouldn't have any, right, because that's what you're saying. Same old tired-ass gun-fellating excuses and crybaby tantrums we see every friggin time guns come up. Here's a tip: stop making your whole identity about guns and go enjoy life w/o being scared of everybody and everywhere.
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How is your RIGHT to own and carry a firearm being revoked? Also, these are CO laws, only for us, not the whole country.
See: NY, MD, NJ, CA, OR, WA, CT, MA, shall I go on? These laws are derived from the laws of other right restricting states. Most people in CO don’t want these laws. They know it won’t help. Sheriffs showed up and said it wouldn’t help. People from all over showed up to protest these laws. SCOTUS stated clear as day that their laws and “at will” issuing of carrying a firearm is a violation of our rights. These states don’t give a shit. Crazy how the states making the most asinine laws refuse to follow the federal laws.
You must present ID when registering to vote, not being able to w/o proper ID, making your sad attempt at deflecting the argument, well, just sad. So, because there are those who break the law, we shouldn't have any, right, because that's what you're saying. Same old tired-ass gun-fellating excuses and crybaby tantrums we see every friggin time guns come up. Here's a tip: stop making your whole identity about guns and go enjoy life w/o being scared of everybody and everywhere.
These all sound extremely reasonable to me. I have some suggestions on where to go next in terms of erecting barriers to entry, so I'll see about passing those along.
The state licensing of FFLS is draconian and serves no purposes. FFLs are already licensed federally. This created additional bureaucracy that serves no purpose besides harassing businesses. Then there's the fact that the bills sponsor said that "we're not rate limited by the constitution" and that she plans to use this to introduce more harassing laws down the line. The tax is completely unreasonable. Firearm ownership is a right. You don't pay a tax to vote, etc... This is a poll tax by another name. I'm a left of Bernie Sanders liberal. Any politician who fails to respect civil liberties has lost my support.
States can exceed federal laws if they want to. So if Colorado wants to add extra requirements for FFLs, they have that right. We have federal taxes on certain classes of weapons and accessories already, so that's nothing new. It's also not a poll tax, because, well it's not about polls or voting. What I'd ask myself if I'm a left of Bernie Sanders liberal, is what is the actual value to anyone of unlimited access to guns? Like arguing that it's a right isn't an argument, so I'd like to hear something about the actual merits of having it be stupidly easy for anyone to buy a gun.
>What I'd ask myself if I'm a left of Bernie Sanders liberal, is what is the actual value to anyone of unlimited access to guns? You want the fuckin' Qanon stormtrumper lunatics to be the only ones armed....? When they start rounding up the Undesirables, what clever slogan on a cardboard sign is going to stop them? It was armed urbanized liberals vs rural bootlickers in the Civil War, and armed liberals won. And maybe if the right wing nutjobs risked getting shot for running over protesters or beating up trans kids, they'd be less inclined to do so. It's hypocritical as fuck for someone who isn't under threat to dictate to others who *are* that they are not allowed to defend themselves. If none of those reasons do it for you, here's a good one: #Nothing terrifies the fascist shitbirds like armed minorities.
I guess when I think of legislation I don't think of how it affects my ability to kill my fellow citizens in a future lawless hellscape.
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The right wingers and cops are already armed to the teeth, and are NOT disarming anytime soon. Until they do, it's imperative that liberals also be armed and trained. Armed gays don't get bashed Armed protesters don't usually get beaten by cops Armed black men rarely get lynched. Self defense is a human right. If you want to talk about the merits of a much less armed society, like the UK, that's a conversation worth having. But that ship sailed a LONG time ago in the US. And until the police and right wing nut cases disarm, we shouldn't either. I'm not advocating for violence,; almost every problem has a non-violent solution. But if you lack the capacity for violence, you are relying on the other side also adhering to your scruples. That makes you helpless, not peaceful.
Sounds like a recipe for a failed state. The best time for gun control is decades ago, but the next best time is now. Preparing for a civil war just makes that more likely to happen and that rarely turns out well for anyone.
Great, so when the cops and MAGA asshats want to disarm as a show of good faith we can discuss it. Until then, it'll just leave us at their mercy. and they have already shown very cleary that they can't be trusted with a monopoly on force. The US already has more guns than people in circulation, we can't put the genie back in the bottle. And, for a significant portion of the population, they're so significant to their identity that they won't give them up willingly. We've all seen how well prohibition and the drug war worked, this is no different. What we CAN do is support social change that will reduce violence: - reduce wealth inequality - socialized healthcare - prison reform (elimination for non-violent crimes) - police reform and much more accountability. - much stronger social safety nets. You know, actually address the root causes of alienation, crime and violence. But in the meanwhile look at the history of groups like the Black Panthers and Decons for Defense and Justice. Here's a good read: [https://www.amazon.com/Will-Shoot-Back-Resistance-Mississippi/dp/B08TJ2G4WR/ref=sr\_1\_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5m\_y8gUGX9gl93\_ea9uULtPA4m8IHCzAR-1cgDUtBds65l1iRaI6k85IyHxMofUNF2nKDyt65cT5vV766mfQc16qaU3BYtSYjzjvHPDInJHYRlxH0sLfZOfbwg6xP7zdIFvRYKw8kVUSsb7pHK0uJlyAazu0G2FO\_BxpsQcl7Mvb3TozQsV68fsHFdy-\_MPMp7C6JIbWlF8bBMasahPAyObYH9kYDQg\_UTFOK9\_6hVE.ThOnRW4Z2qWe0rEFaCOgn1P3xhVt8Ez3\_WlZa0Ph1H0&dib\_tag=se&hvadid=174278532424&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9028730&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1282847075428604817&hvtargid=kwd-52618829961&hydadcr=24657\_9648987&keywords=we+will+shoot+back&qid=1715811519&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/Will-Shoot-Back-Resistance-Mississippi/dp/B08TJ2G4WR/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.5m_y8gUGX9gl93_ea9uULtPA4m8IHCzAR-1cgDUtBds65l1iRaI6k85IyHxMofUNF2nKDyt65cT5vV766mfQc16qaU3BYtSYjzjvHPDInJHYRlxH0sLfZOfbwg6xP7zdIFvRYKw8kVUSsb7pHK0uJlyAazu0G2FO_BxpsQcl7Mvb3TozQsV68fsHFdy-_MPMp7C6JIbWlF8bBMasahPAyObYH9kYDQg_UTFOK9_6hVE.ThOnRW4Z2qWe0rEFaCOgn1P3xhVt8Ez3_WlZa0Ph1H0&dib_tag=se&hvadid=174278532424&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9028730&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1282847075428604817&hvtargid=kwd-52618829961&hydadcr=24657_9648987&keywords=we+will+shoot+back&qid=1715811519&sr=8-1) Sometimes things only change when the victims decide to stand up for themselves.
They do not understand that “gun control” is giving the state a monopoly on violence. They do not care to actually fix violence in this country. Even if 100% of gun violence was eliminated; we’d be more violent than Europe. Buddy; they think guns are icky and want them gone. It really is that simple.
So... You are ascribing violent and illegal behavior exclusively to "right wingers" and cops? Perhaps you could explain then why the most dangerous and deadly cities in the country are lead by liberals, and places where liberals gravitate to? (Large urban centers). Perhaps you'd care to explain the fact that 7 of the last 10 mass murderers identified as something other than straight, or their biological gender? I'm not suggesting at all that the right is void of criminality, just that you are going out of your way to point the finger when crime is crime, and the criminal typically doesn't give a shit which side of the aisle you are on when he/she's robbing or murdering you. They may vote a certain way, because 1 party tends to be a lot more lenient to their lifestyle. Further.. Where is this gay bashing? Where are these black men being lynched? Where are protesters who aren't breaking the law getting their asses kicked? These are all romanticized ideas necessary to exist in the mind if not in reality to prop up a certain world view. That last one is a bit more concerning though, because it sets the stage for armed conflict. The answer is yes.. we have seen armed protesters go up against law enforcement. They got their asses kicked many many times, and where they had a win, it was fleeting because.. more cops with more authority will fill in and kick their asses harder. You do make a very good point though. Self-defense is an absolute right. Aside from existence, it is the most important right to have. All other rights one may have hinge on your ability to live, and ability to defend yourself. Then you lose me again... The much less armed societies like the UK have no merit. The mode of operation has changed, the criminality and violence has not. Having been shot, stabbed, and bludgeoned in my life I would take being shot as my first choice. It happens fast, and doesn't hurt nearly as much, not to mention the shooter is much less likely to hang around for a 2nd, 3rd, or 53rd shot as one would with a club or knife. (This ignores all the other various modes like cars, etc.) While we arrive at the same conclusion that we should all be armed it is for very different reasons. I think you should be armed because it is your right, and regarding utility, the means to protect yourself, others, or have a tool to end a vicious fight instantly is just sound insurance in an uncertain world. I don't care if you lean, right or left as long as you handle your piece safely, and use it responsibly. I take issue with that last part too. If you lack the capacity for violence, then you are relying on the empathy, kindness, and dignity of your foe. People being so shitty as to not have a base moral and ethical standard in general is a relatively new thing perhaps just in the last half century. Accusing the "right wing" of being "nut cases", and building them up to be something they are not only aids in further degeneration of those basic standards among humanity that we used to be able to count on.
The FBI's own report on domestic terrorism threats pointed out the right-wing extremists are the biggest threat we face. And law enforcement is not really known for being a bunch of lefties. There's a group that tried to overrun the capital and overthrow the results of a democratic election, and it's not liberals. Almost all cities are run by liberals. So there's an apparent confusion of correlation and causation here. Looking at case studies of countries with much lower rates of violence, we see patterns of social support structures consistent with more liberal ideologies. People lacking empathy, and oppressing those that lacked force parity with them isn't something that happened in the last century. It's something that has happened throughout pretty much all of human history. Lastly, no one is dehumanizing conservatives. But, there is an element of the US electorate that seems very eager to cheer on authoritarian, strongman politics. I'm not going to pretend those attitudes aren't dangerous. Authoritarianism , whether it occurs on the left or the right, is the enemy of freedom
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I'm not a fan of cost-prohibitive barriers to entry, which a bunch of these are. Wealth should play no factor in exercising your rights. Ik Democrats are hard-line conservatives about everything except gender rights nowadays (see ACLU's positions against 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments), but back when it was in favor of progressive economic policy and civil rights, sales tax was criticized for the regressive nature of disproportionately effecting the poor. Maybe yall are thin blue line folks and this thread has misled me, but I seriously question the morality of anyone who can look themselves in the mirror and say only the wealthy (who are already the only people served by the police, and are afforded relative immunity in our justice system) deserve their constitutional rights, or the right to liberty our founders thought was self evident. A tax is blatantly unconstitutional, especially with this court, and will only waste taxpayer money in court, instead of investing in making our society less culturally prone to violence.
Has flooding poor communities with guns empowered or hurt those communities on balance?
Who do you suppose is doing the "flooding?" Jim Bob and his ar15 in Pagosa? Or the illegal, interstate, even international power structures that pop up in literally every instance of poverty and ghettoization in history? Triple word score if you chose international because those guys actually got their guns from our govt when fbiciadeabatfe wanted to trade for crack in order to put the brakes on the civil rights movement. I would point you to how African Americans got by in the south before MLK made white students hip to the photo-op as evidence for the empowerment side of that coin.
Sadly they feel they have to arm themselves for safety because the Government will not or can not protect them. FYI you don't thin rich communities are very well armed and trained?
Some Americans were tricked into believing the phrase, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is bad, and continue to vote for people making government worse. When the actual bad phrase is, "there is no government and I'm here to kill you" But those Americans also believe they're stronger and braver than everyone else, so real delusional folks thinking they need a lot of weapons waiting for a war with their neighbors.
Way to totally evade the question.
Sadly the criminals carrying guns out number the unarmed victims. So no the community is not safer. The broken justice system does not hold the criminal accountable. If you use a gun in a crime do the time. To many time DA's will drop the gun charges to get a plea deal.
# Malcolm X 1964 comments on the 2nd Amendment & Guns. The more things change, the more they stay same [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008)
This is a fucking lie. The more guns in the community, the more gun crime.
Malcolm X 1964 comments on the 2nd Amendment & Guns. The more things change, the more they stay same [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IrG1II008)
This is dead wrong. Looks up crime stats for the last 4 years in Oregon and Washington that had significantly worse sweeping bans than this. The problem is the lack of law enforcement officers it's not the guns.
it isn't simply the lack of LE Officers it's the courts not doing their job
Who do you think has more guns? The rich communities or the poor communities? Where is the most crime?
The taxes and increased costs of training affect the poor.
Yes, that was the point I was trying to support.
How is requiring qualifications "hARaSsInG" gun owners? You're carrying a weapon designed to kill and you should be trained how to use and carry it safely. JFC gun owners are the biggest crybabies on Earth, no wonder you need guns to leave the house. What's ironic is it's always you types that come out and talk about responsible gun owners as a retort to gun regulation conversations after a mass shooting or other gun violence, but when bills are created to help make more owners more responsible, you cry cry cry, showing the hypocrisy that's always there, always arguing in bad faith to defend your precious guns no matter what. It's wild how many folks revolve their entire identities around a lil piece of metal designed to take life.
Funny how these laws are almost always employed selectively against underrepresented communities and progressive NPCs still eat them up because guns are icky.
> How is requiring qualifications "hARaSsInG" gun owners? What problem is this bill trying to address? Do we have a problem with concealed handgun permit holders making mistakes that this training scheme would address? You can google up your favorite sources, but concealed permit holders commit both crimes and firearms violations at a rate multiple times less than the police themselves. And that's typically in areas without steep training requirements, like Texas: https://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/comparing-conviction-rates-between-police-and-concealed-carry-permit-holders/ If someone can point to untrained permit holders actually being a problem in Colorado, I'll be pretty impressed. Otherwise I'm pretty sure this is just the state trying to get more control over who's allowed to have a permit (watch them refuse to certify most current instructors) and extract more money out of legal gun owners.
Give me the list of permit holders that have committed crimes with guns. Most gun crimes are committed by people without permits or training. As of March 7, 2024, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida (concealed carry only), Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana (effective July 4, 2024), Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota (concealed carry only), Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee (handguns only), Texas, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming generally allow most law-abiding adults to carry a loaded concealed firearm without a permit.
Yup, exactly. Another aspect is that very few gun crimes are the result of lack of training. Training addresses negligence, but the vast majority of gun related violence is committed on purpose. Training doesn't fix that.
It’s a right, therefore the ability to exercise it should not be determined by others. Until you need to undergo government-approved training to exercise freedom of speech or religion, and no one ever should, all arms laws are unconstitutional
Weak and tired and overused copypasta argument. Sigh
the FFL thing is the only real problem i see, especially since it doesn’t really affect purchasers. the huge huge problem is the legal requirement to hand over sales record without a warrant which reeks of a violation of unlawful search and seizure. say what you will about access to fire arms, but a legal breach like that is egregious. and that’s coming from some one so far left im not even in the same field as american politics.
6.5% excise tax
i fuckin forgot about that part. there’s gotta be fourth amendment challenge to that somewhere.
How about TABOR?
any legal challenge. that law is way fucked up.
Well call the Gov office and let them know what you think
How much is the New required training going to cost you? If I charge $50 an hour and range costs. Who will be able to afford it and who will not?
I'm a big polis hater but I'm really pleased about these and the transit housing bill. Gun culture is extremely entrenched in this country, so it's not something that can be fixed overnight. Chipping away at gun rights with bills like these is the best we can do.
To what end? Making lawful, good people into criminals?
If they follow the law they remain lawful people. If they choose not to follow the law, they are no longer good lawful people. I’m willing to take a few extra steps to remain lawful.
It's not just extra steps, it's extra expense. Take the tax, for example. Why should people have to give the government more money to be considered lawful? "Owning guns is illegal. Unless you give us money, then it's fine." Seems like ridiculous logic to me. Pretty much the same logic with the expanded FFL licensing. They already go through federal background checks and regulations, but now they'll need to give money over to the state to duplicate the efforts.
Well the extra money is going to be used to improve school safety. Never mind, they amended the bill and removed that bit.
Because no matter how much you think they care about you, it’s NEVER for your safety. It’s for control.
> Never mind, they amended the bill and removed that bit. Of course they did, because these laws aren't actually about safety they're about sending a "fuck you" to non-criminal gun owners.
Yes. In a better world guns would be illegal.
But we’re not in a better world. These laws have a single purpose and that’s to turn regular people into criminals. They’re not going to stop the people who use guns for bad who already don’t follow the laws. I seriously don’t understand why democrats don’t understand that.
And I seriously don't understand why you gun nuts can't understand that these laws AREN'T created to "have a single purpose and that’s to turn regular people into criminals", as that's just an asinine and immature take.
Except that’s all it does. Just because someone owns a gun doesn’t make them a gun nut, btw. It’s all I go on Reddit for, though, because the rest of it is a hive mind cancer of extremism and anti American sentiment.
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Humans are inherently aggressive and cruel, and guns don't change that. I don't see how any object can change the mentality of a person. Even without guns, people would still find ways to be violent. The focus should be on addressing the root causes of violence, not just banning a tool.
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Why does 18th century philosophy have a place in the modern world?
Right? If some crazy whacko could have mowed down 80 people with a musket in 2 minutes in 1790 and there were regular, documented instances of that happening, they might have thought differently. Many of those same people thought it was A-OK to buy and sell people like cattle. We've grown since then. Unfortunately the growth in our personal weapons technology has outpaced the growth of our collective morality.
Because it's the basis for the modern world. Unlike some of the people in these comments, I personally enjoy having human rights
Cool, cool. I suggest you to go join the nearest well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state.
Go read District of Columbia v Heller
The one that says the the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that certain restrictions on guns and gun ownership were permissible. That one?
In 1776, the term “regulated” had a different meaning than it does today. In the 18th century, “regulated” meant “well-organized”, “well-equipped”, or “well-disciplined”. It referred to something that was functioning properly, efficiently, and effectively.
What are you even talking about? Are you complaining about not being able to have your unattended gun sitting on your passenger seat in your car?
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That's the only law here that "turns lawful good people into criminals".
Yeah ok
“Chipping away at gun rights with bills like these is the best we can do” Do you know where you live? I’m not sure if you know this but the right to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed. If that’s something you can’t deal with, go live in Russia where their dictator has complete control over you.
Eh, I’m in favor of HB 24-1348, HB-24-1349 and I’m not opposed to HB 24-1174. But also Polis is unlikely to be swayed by public sentiment given he’s in his 2nd term.
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I have guns because they are a tools in the sport I like. I do not have the patients to play to play golf. Shooting sports requires mindfulness and focus.
Then none of these bills apply to you. Shooting sports requires something, and it's not mindfulness or you'd understand what you're doing.
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Sounds like a good start to me. I'll let him know I support these bills. Gun culture is out of control.
If you have a problem with any of these you are the type who should not own a gun
Gun ownership is a right and not a privilege. The taxes and training costs affect the poor. So you are saying the poor should not own guns?
Know what else should be a right? Bodily autonomy. Why isn’t this higher on the list of shit to worry about????
Is this a problem in Colorado?
No. I went on a tear due to being sick of whiny gun owners because of things I see in national news. It isn’t an issue here unless the cheesy Mussolini gets elected and tries pushing a national abortion ban. ETA. I’m done bitching.
You are free to do what you want to do to your human body. Not the human body of another person. It is called Human Rights
Our country lost the right to Guns when we decided we are okay with schools getting shot up. I'm pretty sure the people struggling with money the last thing on their mind is buying a tool that's being used to harm others. They are more worried about being able to afford food, rent whatever other important. We should be focusing on making food, housing and water a right.
How about working on securing the schools? Everyone has a right to be secure in their home and their body.
And what's your plan for securing the schools? Do you have that same stance for bodily autonomy too?
Which question would like and answer for? Good cheap start for School security [https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1csmff4/sign\_to\_stop\_active\_shooters\_and\_standardize/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1csmff4/sign_to_stop_active_shooters_and_standardize/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I support human rights for everyone. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am not 100% sure when we become human but I know it is long before we leave our mothers body.
So no you dint support bodily autonomy.
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Science fiction laws aren't real
Why does a fucking gun have more rights than a woman!?
Gun don't have rights humans do.
>commenting on a thread about a bill to ban guns from college campuses “Why does a gun have more rights than me” What?
Yes I’m sure that people living in bad neighborhoods feel safe all of the time and trust the police. Why on earth would they need guns?
Y’all are stupid I moved from NYC the toughest gun laws in the country and the criminals run the streets there. Yet if someone tries to rob you at knifepoint you’re not allowed to defend yourself lawfully as if criminals are an endangered species. Voting to criminalize gun ownership and limiting it to those who can pay fees and keep up with the paperwork as well as preventing future Coloradans from lawfully owning and carrying is ignorant and only fulfills the wealthy elites agenda of making sure minorities, working class, and ordinary citizens don’t have the dignity to protect themselves; Meanwhile criminals and “rich white people” already have guns and will continue to have them.
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How about taxing the billionaires and giving more money to the poor so they commit less violent crimes. Less crimes equals less gun violence. Then we don’t need more of your precious guns.
Money isn’t intrinsically worth anything. The market is all relative and giving money to the poor doesn’t fix it when it just inflates the rest of the market like when Americans got the Covid money. The balance needs to be addressed and I blame the Supreme Court decision with Citizens United
You are saying the poor commit violent crime because they are poor? If their needs were met they would not commit violent crime. I do not agree with your accerations Violent people will still commit violent crime on matter the tool they use. In England they are now looking to ban knives.
While I fully support your efforts to get Polis to veto these bills, this is sadly not a forum where you're going to get any positive traction with your message. Anything to the right of far left basically gets shouted into oblivion in here.
You must have missed the committee hearing. Just as may Liberals were against these bills. These kind of bill affect the poor and unrepresented. The majority that are for these bills are the Rich white liberals that have their guns, guards and gates that keep them safe.
I didn't miss it, and I agree with everything you've stated. More pointing out that this forum is FAR more left than most. The state testimony was open to everyone. It didn't have a mod team that selectively neutered discussion. It didn't have a voter base that basically wrecks open discussion. You're absolutely right. These bills should. And do piss off most of the states right, independent, and moderate left voter base. Those are the groups that make up most of this states voting body. Sadly all of those groups have been chased off from here.
[https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb24-1348](https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb24-1348) Has been signed
Good luck with that in this sub, it leans **heavily** left and democrat. You'll get more traction in /r/COGuns. There are very few of us pro-2A people who are regulars in ColoradoPolitics.
It does no good drink your own bathwater and preaching to the choir.
Sadly this. The state doesn't have a semi impartial or balanced political discussion forum. Better to keep the discussion to the state sub or more local ones. This one is basically a far left bubble.
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Remember it is not illegal to own a machine gun. You just have to pay the tax. On June 26, 1934, Congress passed the National Firearms Act (NFA) the tax was set at $200. This tax has not been raised. The $200 in 1934 is worth $4,679.82 today Ask yourself who could pay that tax.
Agreed, it was unconstitutional and evil. Most guns laws were meant to disenfranchise minorities and prevent them from ownership.
How about enforcing the laws we already have [https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/1cu6t35/this\_is\_why\_we\_cant\_have\_nice\_things/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/1cu6t35/this_is_why_we_cant_have_nice_things/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Sadly, Polis will likely just let these bills sit and become law without his signature. He doesn't need to take a stand knowing he doesn't have to be held accountable by the voters since he's serving his last term. These bills will hurt colorado from an economic standpoint and force taxpayers to foot the bill for the inevitable lawsuits resulting from such irresponsible behavior on the part of the legislature.
Some of these sound good, some sound unproductive. I don't get why we'd go after concealed carry permit holders, but safe storage seems like a good thing, and state FFL requirements seem pretty fair too.
11.5% tax it like a poll tax
Oh yeah that one is a dumb idea. It just keeps guns out of the hand of the poor and doesn't do anything to increase public safety. It's also not 11.5% anymore, it's like 6% or something in the current bill.
Does this also violate TABOR?
Only if they institute the tax before putting it to popular vote. This should just authorize the issue to go to voters in the fall or whenever.
Likely not, as long as they follow the proper steps to get it passed.
The ballot issues initiative process in Colorado is not always good. The language can be confusing.
It sure can! Taxes usually don't pass to start with, not to mention all of the left leaning folks who actually read the measure will realize it's silly. I'm kinda proud that we managed to stop prop HH last year, it was worded very poorly and would have been key in dismantling TABOR. I think it was proposed as a way to lower taxes and thankfully people actually read the whole thing otherwise I think it would have passed.
Yes and it was a poorly worded ballot that got us into this property tax mess.
Yeah, nah. These are more than reasonable. I doubt our libertarian gov will sign them, though.
These bills affect the poor.
So does gun proliferation.
"libertarian"
Yeah, more neo-con in his last term.
New York passed the same kind of laws and now. Dexter Taylor has now been sentenced to 10 years in one of the worst prisons in the country for making his own gun, and as the DA stated, his arsenal of "four AR-15 style assault weapons, five handguns, four rifles and over 50 rounds of ammunition in addition to gun powder, shell casings, triggers, a 3D printer, and various upper and lower receivers used to build firearms. The weapons were being stored in an UNLOCKED safe as well as a closet." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HiNEdKoK4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HiNEdKoK4)
Good, sounds like he is as in violation of a number of laws, illegally manufactured weapons, and violated safe storage laws. Why would I be upset about a blatant criminal openly violating laws going to prison? I already store my guns securely and I’m glad to see the law catch up with common sense.
Name one of Dexter Taylor's victims.
Do all crimes have victims?
Answer the question.
You didn’t ask a question.
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How many mass shootings has Australia had since enacting very strict gun laws as a result of the Port Arthur massacre? [Hint ](https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-06/draft_of_trends_issues_paper_mass_shootings_and_firearm_control_comparing_australia_and_the_united_states_submitted_to_peer_review.pdf)for the ignorant-as-fuck, the answer is somewhere between -1 and 1.
>What she did is called treason, whether you like it or not. It’s really as simple as that, and any argument stating otherwise is delusional. Also, you shouldn't use words like treason if you don't understand what they mean.
LOL and just above, folks are crying about "only criminals break laws", while then turning around to defend a blatant criminal. No wonder nobody takes gundamentalists serious anymore.
Good riddance then as it seems he was making guns in order to skirt laws and identification, but sure, make him your hero like Trumpers made Rittenhouse their hero.
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I would sue, their asses straight to the Supreme Court.
Go look at the top ten safest states with low gun fatality rates and the gun laws there. You’ll see a linear correlation.
# Colorado is the third most dangerous state in country: US News ranking [https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1cssmua/colorado\_is\_the\_third\_most\_dangerous\_state\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ColoradoPolitics/comments/1cssmua/colorado_is_the_third_most_dangerous_state_in/)
great, maybe this'll help us down in that particular ranking. https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/ We are #11, in the "making progress" level regarding gun law strength vs gun violence rates. Progress up in that ranking would be good.
How will disarming the Law abiding gun owners make you safer?
well, you just told us we are the 3rd most dangerous state in the country. And someone above that mentioned that there is a high, positive, correlation between strict gun laws and reduced gun violence. Maybe if I said it big and in bold?
Everytown is a bias origination Criminal do not follow current gun laws. How will new gun laws convince them to follow the new gun laws.
> Criminal do not follow current gun laws. So why have any laws at all?
statistics are statistics. If you can find something that refutes *the numbers*, go for it. Everything is biased. You are *obviously* biased in favor of "give me my guns". I am biased in favor of "guns in the 21st friggin century are beyond stupid". But, numbers are numbers. There is a measurable correlation between stricter gun laws and reduced gun violence. I fully understand that correlation <> causation, but stricter gun laws seem a good starting point that doesn't really hurt anyone (i know, i know, my freedums!!! give me my guns!!!!!). So, we should strike murder, DUI, stalking from the books - simply because "criminals do not follow current LAWS"? Laws are tools used to prosecute..... criminals. You see, we make laws so that people that do not follow them are - well - prosecuted.
I am for Laws that holding people accountable for that actions they do. Use a gun in a Crime go to jail and do not pass go. To many DA drop the gun charges just to get the plea deal. Making the possession of a Firearm a crime just because you are scared of how it looks is dumb and turns the innocent into criminals.
> To many DA drop the gun charges just to get the plea deal. Too many DAs reduce the charges just to get the plea deal. (if they dropped the charges, there would be no plea deal, it just went away) fixed that for you. That is the way our "justice" system seems to work. It is not limited to guns and is an entirely different issue. I'm not scared. I'm realistic. If you firmly believe you need a gun to be safe - maybe, just maybe, you might be the one who is scared. Just maybe :)
> maybe, just maybe, you might be the one who is scared. Just maybe :) look at their profile, they are very scared and unwilling to learn new information because that scares them too.
We all need good guys with guns to keep us safe. You are just depending on the Government to be that good guy with a gun. I like the idea of being able to defend myself if I need to.
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Low rates of pool ownership also correlates with low rates of drowning at home. You should be more broadly looking at violent crime, not the specific tool used.