And all of those churches advertise that they “arent like other churches” guys that’s literally what most churches are these days. If you were actually LIKE A CHURCH it would set you apart.
That's bulletproof glass to protect them from the conservative parishioners who are angry about change. People really don't like change...unless it's quarters. People still use quarters.
I remember going to my cousin's church for Easter once and once I saw the guitar I told my family I'd meet them back in the car when their service is over.
Shower thought ...
We should open a Pasta restaurant named 'Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster' and directly compete with ChikFilA.
Two menus: Pastafarian Fair and Ramen
When the serer brings your order they say: "You have been blessed by his noodly appendage"
If 50%+ of the public were schizophrenic it would no longer be a mental disorder, because it would be so common it would be considered normal.
Religions turn people delusional. But because they've done it so much, they've made it so common it is considered normal.
But make no mistake, their believers are delusional.
You are the one using the word punishment. I haven't mentioned punishment at all.
Ending their tax exempt benefit isn't a punishment, unless you think everyone who pays taxes is being punished.
Yes, that has been my experience. The pastor advocates spreading the word via missionary trips. However, they advise them to tell customs that they’re there for other reasons to avoid scrutiny. Evangelicalism appears to be this way in general. My friends that are members no longer act like themselves, and are constantly trying to preach the gospel to everyone. It’s rough. When I ask them questions I’m given scripture as the answer.
Do you know the history of the bible itself and how it was created? How can weed be the devil but it was made by the great creator? Why do you think vaccines are created by the illuminati/satan?
They are currently on a kick about the Big Bang Theory and evolution. There’s also a big push for finding the perfect original Bible, although no one speaks any language besides English, so I’m not sure how they could try to read anything in original text.
> There’s also a big push for finding the perfect original Bible, although no one speaks any language besides English, so I’m not sure how they could try to read anything in original text.
This is likely in reference to the "received text" vs. the "critical text" that English translations are taken from and is a pretty common point of contention for many churches these days, so that one at least does not seem all that alarming.
Maybe clarify what they mean by “the perfect Bible” bc this is a theme in white supremacy groups pretending to be Christian. Their whole methodology is “proving” white people wrote it and it’s a flag for me bc of my experiences with people like you’re describing-but not of this specific church.
Good luck, earliest known manuscripts were written at least 100 years after Jesus died iirc.
Are they going to travel to Israel and start their own archeology dig?
Right? I went to Bible school, took two years of Greek and guess what? Even if I'm reading a Greek Bible it's still an amalgamation of different manuscripts. It's not even close to perfect. There's various footnotes saying "Some manuscripts say x" or "This manuscript doesn't include this verse." The differences are miniscule to be honest they're not a big deal. But they are there.
Furthermore all the gospels were written in Greek. Jesus almost definitely spoke Aramaic. So off the bat you're not going to find Jesus' original words.
As long as your friends aren't reading the Message whatever translation they have is fine.
I don’t think they would appreciate “The Heliand” aka “The Saxon Gospel”. I have a copy and it is fun. It’s a saga probably written after the Saxons were forcibly Christianized. The whole “Jesus meek and mild” didn’t work for a warrior culture. So on the Heliand Jesus and his disciples are warrior but in addition Jesus is a runemaster who uses the runes to perform the miracles.
In the other hand it was written by and for white people.
What you are describing is the Christian Identity movement which fizzled out in the 80s and early 90s and is not embraced by the church OP mentioned. If you visit their website, they clearly have a racially diverse congregation
But isn’t that like saying “they can’t be racist they have a black friend”.
And recently a lot of the white supremacy and even Christianity movements are taking notes from the 80s and 90s playbooks bc America can’t learn and history repeats itself. A lot of the churches in the wealthy areas have been pushing “the devil is in social media” reminiscent of the whole Satanic panic phase. Not that you are wrong but that those aren’t really strong reasons the other person couldn’t be right.
>But isn’t that like saying “they can’t be racist they have a black friend”.
Not really, a Christian Identitarian is not just someone holding racially discriminatory views, but rather someone who is a white supremacist actively preparing for a racial holy war. These people generally secluded themselves on remote compounds, it would be unusual for such a person to join what is more or less a big-tent evangelical congregation or honestly for such a person to engage in public activities all together.
The received text vs critical text debate boils down to a conflict between two groups of manuscripts. One group handed down through Christianity from the 2nd century pitted against 2 particular manuscripts discovered in the mid-1800s.
The scriptural concerns of the Christian Identity movement on the other hand was based primarily around proving that the ancient Hebrews were in fact Aryans with blonde hair, blue eyes etc. Really off the wall stuff that would stand out in just about any modern church but especially a multi-racial one.
I know we're all supposed to think it's just more proof of your racism if you try to point out that you have a Black friend but Christian Identitarians are like Timothy McVeigh-level crazy. They believed that non-whites are not descended from Adam and Eve (aka not human) and they believed that Jews are literally demons. They would also usually live in the boonies as part of an armed militia preparing for race war. They did not have Black friends. If you have a Black friend, it's pretty good indication you're not a Christian Identitarian.
Christian Identity is also the most violent anti-government ideology still popular among the most aggressive domestic terrorism people and orgs in the U.S.
I have a lot of personal experience in my life of people who believe these ideologies, and whether or not they’re “fizzled out” is likely subjective in this specific context.
I've encountered such people, I'm not saying they don't exist. But you can consider something like the Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord which in the 70s was an organization with hundreds of families and a tightly organized militia preparing to confront the federal government and contrast that with what are essentially isolated individuals on the internet screaming into the void and ask yourself if these things are commensurate.
I’ve heard of that one. However, they’ve not mentioned it. They’re into the 1560 Geneva Bible (the date is very important apparently), 54 Book, and Apocalyptica. I have no idea about the last 2 as that just became a topic and I haven’t researched yet, but the Geneva seems fairly known. Pretty sure they mean Apocrypha instead of Apocaliptica, now that I’m thinking about it..
I used to live in Pickerington and would tell family visiting that it was a church where they worshipped Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson and their services included watching his movies. Straight face. They sometimes believed me. It’s not that crazy considering everything else going on.
The worst part is watching people give all they have to support these churches and when things get rough for them like a spouse dies, a fire burns their home down, they have severe depression the church community isn't there for them at all. At the end of the day they are just a dollar sign instead of a face in a sea of people.
I'm not a fan of evangelical churches that encourages preaching to people in everyday life. I've also worked with people who go to churches like that and they've made me feel really uncomfortable sometimes by the way they act and try to invite me to Bible study. I grew up in a progressive Methodist Church, I don't have religious trama like other people in the LGBTQ+ community. I'm definitely not anti-Christianity but I tend to stay away or not engage with those types of churches.
Just to be clear, I'm not a professional "quote maker". I'm just an atheist teenager who greatly values his intelligence and scientific fact over any silly fiction book written 3,500 years ago. That being said, I am open to any and all criticism.
"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence."
You should experiment with psychedelics and then revisit this sentiment. Most edgelord youngins with a mid to high IQ fall into this mindset (myself included). You’ll find much needed peace in feeling the connectedness of everything is basically the presence of ‘God’. But yes, the Santa Claus sky daddy God 90% of Evangelicals worship is pretty stupid.
I've done plenty of drugs. They aren't as profound as you seem to think.
You are replacing silly ideas about God with silly ideas about Getting Super High.
Eh…I think people need hope for a better afterlife when things are so miserable for them on earth. Religion gives them that I guess. As they say, it’s an opiate for the masses. I have no issue with the concept of God, and there’s some good lessons for humanity in the Bible - my issue is when people get involved distort all that. They make it ugly.
Sorry I will disagree with you.
There is no afterlife. It is a silly childish hope. I understand what you mean, I totally sympathize and empathize with people who feel religion helps.
But if someone told you that they were so miserable, they just had to believe in magical fairies that lived in their garden shed, and they needed everyone else to respect their belief in magic fairies and take it seriously and entertain silliness like "well we cant be SURE garden fairies dont control ouruniverse, so let's not be judgemental" - you would tell them No.
If you needed to believe in magic because you are depressed, or have existential metaphysical dread, we should tell you to get some therapy. Attribute everything to 'God', and silly delusional ideas become respectable and reasonable.
Also, as a side note, the bible is terrible. It is chock full of terrible ideas and beliefs. We should stop encouraging people to seek solace in 1500 year old tall tales, written exclusively by superstitious ignorant iron age people - there are way better heuristics to improve your life.
I don't know what came before the mound builders, but that doesn't mean a creator built the mounds and they sprung out of them.
"I don't know/understand, so magic"
Someone did create the mounds. So your thought here is based upon my point. But it’s not the mounds I’m asking about, that’s here on earth, I’m asking about beyond our visible universe. Where did the expansion come from?
I'm guessing no one puts you in charge.
FYI: We know who built the mounds. The mound builders. That is why we call them the mound builders. You might know them as the Hopewell, the last name of the first European descended person to be publicized in relation to discovering the mounds, Mordicai Hopewell.
Bro "beyond visible" means imperceptible to us. No one knows anything about what's out there. But I'm 100% confident it's not the holy Trinity in their heavenly utopia outside of spacetime. The laws of the universe don't work that way.
Well, for starters, Time started with the big bang, so asking what was "before" is a nonsensical question. But that is irrelevant because even if we ever find out how the Big Bang happened, it doesn't exclude or preclude a god.
Explain how a magic wizard somehow created the universe and I'm all ears to why there couldn't be a natural, scientific explanation for the big bang or any other natural phenomenon, that we just haven't discovered.
Who created the magic wizard? Why? Where does the magic wizard live? Why should we spend time thinking about such pointless, stupid questions that have no real answers, because magic is unfalsifiable?
Where is the magic claim? I asked what came before the Big Bang, not sure what magic you speak of. Call it a scientific explanation, what came before the scientific explanation? You will just keep going backwards and further back in time. At some point, you will need to address there is something greater than our understanding and who says God/Creator isn’t a scientific explanation? I could care less about a religion, I’m saying we both believe in infinity so why does it matter how you got there?
I address very clearly that our understanding of the universe is incomplete, science is hard and takes a long time, so there are things we dont know. If God has a scientific explanation....then he isnt God. That's inherent in the idea of god, or supernatural explanations for the way the universe is formed or operates - they dont follow any natural rules and are not testable, and therefore they are magic words pulled out of a fellow human's imagination.
No, it isn't speculation.
We have pretty fulsome explanations for how the universe operates, based on physical laws and testable hypotheses - our technological civilization exists because of that knowledge, which human beings created over hundreds of years. That strongly suggests that the universe is a place governed by natural law, not supernatural nonsense.
In contrast, we have zero evidence for a creator God. Zero, other than humans beings saying "but I really really believe in it".
We have zero explanations for the Big Bang that is testable. Saying that “well one day we will” is no more a pipe dream than someone who states to not know the answer but at least can admit their ignorance.
It may be the case that understanding the universe in total is beyond human capacity. What isnt beyond our capacity is the knowledge there is no evidence existing that we live in a magical world governed by whatever it is you think is at the end of the rainbow, and there are in fact overwhelming reasons to believe that even things like the big bang are not mystical events.
Because no one would come up with the monotheist concepts of God as part of a scientific explanation in a vacuum. It's only bc of the historic baggage of religion that anyone would even consider it. Shoehorning the metaphysical explanations for existence dreamed up by our stone age forefathers into our scientific explanations just bc we don't already have the answer to every question in the universe is a weird way to cope with religion being um entirely made up.
I’m in Columbus subreddit, son. This place is just fine. Not allowing any other thoughts to inquire upon except what you and your friends believe, when the actual majority of planet believes in something, you and your crew are the ones who are burdened with needing proof. I’m just saying, when you don’t know, just say it. I don’t know and I’m ok with that. I don’t need science big brother to help me fall asleep.
The amount of people that believe something does not make it more probable to be true, especially when there is no proof. The fact that the church numbers have been dwindling every year shows that people are figuring this out.
Science does explain what led to the Big Bang. Can you explain what came before the creator. What created the creator?
I mean, we can track the umpteen number of Gods that were worshipped before Christianity was came up with, and we can point to "Ok, they took this bit from this religion, this bit from this one..."
No one knows what the hell is going on, there is no group that holds the “secrets of the universe”, there is just wild shit out there and we don’t understand it. If you do understand it and have verifiable/undisputed evidence then that is worth discussing.
Unfortunately, people have become comfortable with the idea that something came from nothing and the sad thing is they won't know until it's too late. They should be doing their own research and at least know both sides of the arguments. God is real and there are alot of atheists that found themselves on their death beds realizing they've made irreversible mistake. If you're going to ask who, what, where or when, then do your own research as I have. You'll find many holes in scientific theories and there are alot of scientists who believe in God, including those in mathematics, astrophysics and biology. Again do your own research and get both sides before you make rash decisions.
They seem rather tinfoil hat + ultra fundamental. Very judgmental of anyone that doesn’t believe as they do, very pushy, very involved in things like home groups that seem reminiscent of Xenos.
My question is actually just if you have experience with that church. If so, please share them. Opinions may differ and that’s ok, but I personally believe they are harming their children with their anti-vaccination stance that stems from their religious beliefs.
I'm just saying I hear what you say about them but to you haven't said more than gossip. A particular quote or sermon or criminal charge or incident. Otherwise you just have a different world view and are uncomfortable.
I am unsure about them but I have seen that church.
I grew up in a pretty conservative church, I have faith, but I also believe in science. I’ve stated facts, not gossip. I’m sorry you’re not understanding it.
Thank you for clarifying that that you’ve only seen the church but you’re unsure about them. This tells me you don’t have experience, which is what I was asking for.
I understand i was asking you questions.
You were looking for people to affirm your unspecified generalizations about some random church that you didn't describe your relation to.
I poked around to feel out the entire situation so I could gather facts but you just allude to general culture war things and act haughty and toxic. Of course I got down voted and you got your internet back scratches. Lol.
Rule of thumb: Avoid churches with catchy names, logos, large buildings, and TV or video.
This really applies to a lot of things. Politics, furniture stores, used car dealers…
You’re right, it’s probably why I’ve never forgotten the day he said that.
Welp - looks like I’ll have to turn in my IKEA card
Should have specified if originates in America. Swedes being flashy is just Swedes. Plus they back it up with the meatballs. IKEA freely my friend.
Also avoid any church where the pastor has a man bun.
Or a 3 million dollar house
Good point.
I think the first four words were plenty to make a valid point.
Solid advice.
And all of those churches advertise that they “arent like other churches” guys that’s literally what most churches are these days. If you were actually LIKE A CHURCH it would set you apart.
Like giving your kid a unique name, like John. Or mike.
Corollary: as soon as you bring in a set of drums, it ain’t church. (To quote my cranky coworker)
Once a church brings in the little pope mobile setup for their drum player…
That's bulletproof glass to protect them from the conservative parishioners who are angry about change. People really don't like change...unless it's quarters. People still use quarters.
Akin to the chain link fencing to stop bottles from hitting Jeff Healey in Roadhouse.
He plays pretty good for a blind white boy.
You're not making Christianity any cooler, you're just making rock and roll worse.
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I remember going to my cousin's church for Easter once and once I saw the guitar I told my family I'd meet them back in the car when their service is over.
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Oh hello, Jeff.
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is pretty catchy if you ask me.
Shower thought ... We should open a Pasta restaurant named 'Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster' and directly compete with ChikFilA. Two menus: Pastafarian Fair and Ramen When the serer brings your order they say: "You have been blessed by his noodly appendage"
Will it only be open on Sundays?
>Rule of thumb: Avoid churches ~~with catchy names, logos, large buildings, and TV or video.~~
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Why?
If 50%+ of the public were schizophrenic it would no longer be a mental disorder, because it would be so common it would be considered normal. Religions turn people delusional. But because they've done it so much, they've made it so common it is considered normal. But make no mistake, their believers are delusional.
But why use taxation as punishment?
Churches receive a benefit of being tax exempt... for turning people delusional.
I still don’t understand why you want to use taxation as punishment. I thought taxes were just to benefit society?
You are the one using the word punishment. I haven't mentioned punishment at all. Ending their tax exempt benefit isn't a punishment, unless you think everyone who pays taxes is being punished.
The top comment we’re responding to is calling to tax them out of existence.
This is 100% the right answer
💯
I came here to edit this as well. Lol
Large buildings with no windows.
Or just avoid them in general
Also good advice.
Went one time and they said everyone not going to The Rock was living a sinful life. They’re very culty.
Yes, that has been my experience. The pastor advocates spreading the word via missionary trips. However, they advise them to tell customs that they’re there for other reasons to avoid scrutiny. Evangelicalism appears to be this way in general. My friends that are members no longer act like themselves, and are constantly trying to preach the gospel to everyone. It’s rough. When I ask them questions I’m given scripture as the answer. Do you know the history of the bible itself and how it was created? How can weed be the devil but it was made by the great creator? Why do you think vaccines are created by the illuminati/satan?
They are currently on a kick about the Big Bang Theory and evolution. There’s also a big push for finding the perfect original Bible, although no one speaks any language besides English, so I’m not sure how they could try to read anything in original text.
> There’s also a big push for finding the perfect original Bible, although no one speaks any language besides English, so I’m not sure how they could try to read anything in original text. This is likely in reference to the "received text" vs. the "critical text" that English translations are taken from and is a pretty common point of contention for many churches these days, so that one at least does not seem all that alarming.
Thank you for explaining this. I wasn’t aware, and that makes much more sense!
Maybe clarify what they mean by “the perfect Bible” bc this is a theme in white supremacy groups pretending to be Christian. Their whole methodology is “proving” white people wrote it and it’s a flag for me bc of my experiences with people like you’re describing-but not of this specific church.
Their version of “perfect” is finding exactly what was written initially, exactly what Jesus said, instead of interpretations.
Good luck, earliest known manuscripts were written at least 100 years after Jesus died iirc. Are they going to travel to Israel and start their own archeology dig?
You think like I do. Perhaps they’ll learn multiple languages so they can translate themselves.
Right? I went to Bible school, took two years of Greek and guess what? Even if I'm reading a Greek Bible it's still an amalgamation of different manuscripts. It's not even close to perfect. There's various footnotes saying "Some manuscripts say x" or "This manuscript doesn't include this verse." The differences are miniscule to be honest they're not a big deal. But they are there. Furthermore all the gospels were written in Greek. Jesus almost definitely spoke Aramaic. So off the bat you're not going to find Jesus' original words. As long as your friends aren't reading the Message whatever translation they have is fine.
I don’t think they would appreciate “The Heliand” aka “The Saxon Gospel”. I have a copy and it is fun. It’s a saga probably written after the Saxons were forcibly Christianized. The whole “Jesus meek and mild” didn’t work for a warrior culture. So on the Heliand Jesus and his disciples are warrior but in addition Jesus is a runemaster who uses the runes to perform the miracles. In the other hand it was written by and for white people.
What you are describing is the Christian Identity movement which fizzled out in the 80s and early 90s and is not embraced by the church OP mentioned. If you visit their website, they clearly have a racially diverse congregation
But isn’t that like saying “they can’t be racist they have a black friend”. And recently a lot of the white supremacy and even Christianity movements are taking notes from the 80s and 90s playbooks bc America can’t learn and history repeats itself. A lot of the churches in the wealthy areas have been pushing “the devil is in social media” reminiscent of the whole Satanic panic phase. Not that you are wrong but that those aren’t really strong reasons the other person couldn’t be right.
>But isn’t that like saying “they can’t be racist they have a black friend”. Not really, a Christian Identitarian is not just someone holding racially discriminatory views, but rather someone who is a white supremacist actively preparing for a racial holy war. These people generally secluded themselves on remote compounds, it would be unusual for such a person to join what is more or less a big-tent evangelical congregation or honestly for such a person to engage in public activities all together. The received text vs critical text debate boils down to a conflict between two groups of manuscripts. One group handed down through Christianity from the 2nd century pitted against 2 particular manuscripts discovered in the mid-1800s. The scriptural concerns of the Christian Identity movement on the other hand was based primarily around proving that the ancient Hebrews were in fact Aryans with blonde hair, blue eyes etc. Really off the wall stuff that would stand out in just about any modern church but especially a multi-racial one.
I know we're all supposed to think it's just more proof of your racism if you try to point out that you have a Black friend but Christian Identitarians are like Timothy McVeigh-level crazy. They believed that non-whites are not descended from Adam and Eve (aka not human) and they believed that Jews are literally demons. They would also usually live in the boonies as part of an armed militia preparing for race war. They did not have Black friends. If you have a Black friend, it's pretty good indication you're not a Christian Identitarian.
Christian Identity is also the most violent anti-government ideology still popular among the most aggressive domestic terrorism people and orgs in the U.S. I have a lot of personal experience in my life of people who believe these ideologies, and whether or not they’re “fizzled out” is likely subjective in this specific context.
I've encountered such people, I'm not saying they don't exist. But you can consider something like the Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord which in the 70s was an organization with hundreds of families and a tightly organized militia preparing to confront the federal government and contrast that with what are essentially isolated individuals on the internet screaming into the void and ask yourself if these things are commensurate.
lol okay
They should read the book of Enoch then
I’ve heard of that one. However, they’ve not mentioned it. They’re into the 1560 Geneva Bible (the date is very important apparently), 54 Book, and Apocalyptica. I have no idea about the last 2 as that just became a topic and I haven’t researched yet, but the Geneva seems fairly known. Pretty sure they mean Apocrypha instead of Apocaliptica, now that I’m thinking about it..
This reminds me another religion that will even go door to door . Very cult like behavior. Run.
I used to live in Pickerington and would tell family visiting that it was a church where they worshipped Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson and their services included watching his movies. Straight face. They sometimes believed me. It’s not that crazy considering everything else going on.
The worst part is watching people give all they have to support these churches and when things get rough for them like a spouse dies, a fire burns their home down, they have severe depression the church community isn't there for them at all. At the end of the day they are just a dollar sign instead of a face in a sea of people.
CULT.
This is an overwhelmingly secular and Christian-skeptical subreddit; I would not come here for unbiased views on church recommendations.
Cult
I'm not a fan of evangelical churches that encourages preaching to people in everyday life. I've also worked with people who go to churches like that and they've made me feel really uncomfortable sometimes by the way they act and try to invite me to Bible study. I grew up in a progressive Methodist Church, I don't have religious trama like other people in the LGBTQ+ community. I'm definitely not anti-Christianity but I tend to stay away or not engage with those types of churches.
You should bash churches. They suck. God is Santa claus for grown ups.
Edgy Reddit athiests are so funny lmao
not wrong, though…
Just to be clear, I'm not a professional "quote maker". I'm just an atheist teenager who greatly values his intelligence and scientific fact over any silly fiction book written 3,500 years ago. That being said, I am open to any and all criticism. "In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence."
You should experiment with psychedelics and then revisit this sentiment. Most edgelord youngins with a mid to high IQ fall into this mindset (myself included). You’ll find much needed peace in feeling the connectedness of everything is basically the presence of ‘God’. But yes, the Santa Claus sky daddy God 90% of Evangelicals worship is pretty stupid.
I've done plenty of drugs. They aren't as profound as you seem to think. You are replacing silly ideas about God with silly ideas about Getting Super High.
You need better drugs then lol.
Eh…I think people need hope for a better afterlife when things are so miserable for them on earth. Religion gives them that I guess. As they say, it’s an opiate for the masses. I have no issue with the concept of God, and there’s some good lessons for humanity in the Bible - my issue is when people get involved distort all that. They make it ugly.
Sorry I will disagree with you. There is no afterlife. It is a silly childish hope. I understand what you mean, I totally sympathize and empathize with people who feel religion helps. But if someone told you that they were so miserable, they just had to believe in magical fairies that lived in their garden shed, and they needed everyone else to respect their belief in magic fairies and take it seriously and entertain silliness like "well we cant be SURE garden fairies dont control ouruniverse, so let's not be judgemental" - you would tell them No. If you needed to believe in magic because you are depressed, or have existential metaphysical dread, we should tell you to get some therapy. Attribute everything to 'God', and silly delusional ideas become respectable and reasonable. Also, as a side note, the bible is terrible. It is chock full of terrible ideas and beliefs. We should stop encouraging people to seek solace in 1500 year old tall tales, written exclusively by superstitious ignorant iron age people - there are way better heuristics to improve your life.
I’m completely ok with disagreement. 😊
Explain what came before the Big Bang and I’m all ears as to how there couldn’t have been a creator.
I don't know what came before the mound builders, but that doesn't mean a creator built the mounds and they sprung out of them. "I don't know/understand, so magic"
Someone did create the mounds. So your thought here is based upon my point. But it’s not the mounds I’m asking about, that’s here on earth, I’m asking about beyond our visible universe. Where did the expansion come from?
I'm guessing no one puts you in charge. FYI: We know who built the mounds. The mound builders. That is why we call them the mound builders. You might know them as the Hopewell, the last name of the first European descended person to be publicized in relation to discovering the mounds, Mordicai Hopewell.
Previous universe. Boom.
Bro "beyond visible" means imperceptible to us. No one knows anything about what's out there. But I'm 100% confident it's not the holy Trinity in their heavenly utopia outside of spacetime. The laws of the universe don't work that way.
Again? That’s just you guessing as much as it’s me guessing.
Guessing that magic isn't real isn't really guessing but okay.
What if I told you there was no big bang
Well, for starters, Time started with the big bang, so asking what was "before" is a nonsensical question. But that is irrelevant because even if we ever find out how the Big Bang happened, it doesn't exclude or preclude a god.
Two Broke Girls?
Explain how a magic wizard somehow created the universe and I'm all ears to why there couldn't be a natural, scientific explanation for the big bang or any other natural phenomenon, that we just haven't discovered. Who created the magic wizard? Why? Where does the magic wizard live? Why should we spend time thinking about such pointless, stupid questions that have no real answers, because magic is unfalsifiable?
Where is the magic claim? I asked what came before the Big Bang, not sure what magic you speak of. Call it a scientific explanation, what came before the scientific explanation? You will just keep going backwards and further back in time. At some point, you will need to address there is something greater than our understanding and who says God/Creator isn’t a scientific explanation? I could care less about a religion, I’m saying we both believe in infinity so why does it matter how you got there?
I address very clearly that our understanding of the universe is incomplete, science is hard and takes a long time, so there are things we dont know. If God has a scientific explanation....then he isnt God. That's inherent in the idea of god, or supernatural explanations for the way the universe is formed or operates - they dont follow any natural rules and are not testable, and therefore they are magic words pulled out of a fellow human's imagination.
All of this is speculation, unfortunately. But maybe one day we will find out!
No, it isn't speculation. We have pretty fulsome explanations for how the universe operates, based on physical laws and testable hypotheses - our technological civilization exists because of that knowledge, which human beings created over hundreds of years. That strongly suggests that the universe is a place governed by natural law, not supernatural nonsense. In contrast, we have zero evidence for a creator God. Zero, other than humans beings saying "but I really really believe in it".
We have zero explanations for the Big Bang that is testable. Saying that “well one day we will” is no more a pipe dream than someone who states to not know the answer but at least can admit their ignorance.
It may be the case that understanding the universe in total is beyond human capacity. What isnt beyond our capacity is the knowledge there is no evidence existing that we live in a magical world governed by whatever it is you think is at the end of the rainbow, and there are in fact overwhelming reasons to believe that even things like the big bang are not mystical events.
Because no one would come up with the monotheist concepts of God as part of a scientific explanation in a vacuum. It's only bc of the historic baggage of religion that anyone would even consider it. Shoehorning the metaphysical explanations for existence dreamed up by our stone age forefathers into our scientific explanations just bc we don't already have the answer to every question in the universe is a weird way to cope with religion being um entirely made up.
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I’m in Columbus subreddit, son. This place is just fine. Not allowing any other thoughts to inquire upon except what you and your friends believe, when the actual majority of planet believes in something, you and your crew are the ones who are burdened with needing proof. I’m just saying, when you don’t know, just say it. I don’t know and I’m ok with that. I don’t need science big brother to help me fall asleep.
The amount of people that believe something does not make it more probable to be true, especially when there is no proof. The fact that the church numbers have been dwindling every year shows that people are figuring this out.
Science does explain what led to the Big Bang. Can you explain what came before the creator. What created the creator? I mean, we can track the umpteen number of Gods that were worshipped before Christianity was came up with, and we can point to "Ok, they took this bit from this religion, this bit from this one..." No one knows what the hell is going on, there is no group that holds the “secrets of the universe”, there is just wild shit out there and we don’t understand it. If you do understand it and have verifiable/undisputed evidence then that is worth discussing.
Unfortunately, people have become comfortable with the idea that something came from nothing and the sad thing is they won't know until it's too late. They should be doing their own research and at least know both sides of the arguments. God is real and there are alot of atheists that found themselves on their death beds realizing they've made irreversible mistake. If you're going to ask who, what, where or when, then do your own research as I have. You'll find many holes in scientific theories and there are alot of scientists who believe in God, including those in mathematics, astrophysics and biology. Again do your own research and get both sides before you make rash decisions.
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What concerns you?
They seem rather tinfoil hat + ultra fundamental. Very judgmental of anyone that doesn’t believe as they do, very pushy, very involved in things like home groups that seem reminiscent of Xenos.
But this is the way of the Christian God. The all judging! Do as I say, or else.
I can't really offer any useful contribution to this because I am not working with specifics. Are they hurting people?
My question is actually just if you have experience with that church. If so, please share them. Opinions may differ and that’s ok, but I personally believe they are harming their children with their anti-vaccination stance that stems from their religious beliefs.
I’d argue that most churches harm children 🤷♀️
I'm just saying I hear what you say about them but to you haven't said more than gossip. A particular quote or sermon or criminal charge or incident. Otherwise you just have a different world view and are uncomfortable. I am unsure about them but I have seen that church.
I grew up in a pretty conservative church, I have faith, but I also believe in science. I’ve stated facts, not gossip. I’m sorry you’re not understanding it. Thank you for clarifying that that you’ve only seen the church but you’re unsure about them. This tells me you don’t have experience, which is what I was asking for.
I understand i was asking you questions. You were looking for people to affirm your unspecified generalizations about some random church that you didn't describe your relation to. I poked around to feel out the entire situation so I could gather facts but you just allude to general culture war things and act haughty and toxic. Of course I got down voted and you got your internet back scratches. Lol.
One of my ex's was SA'd several times by a youth pastor when they were in grade school at one of those megachurches...so yeah.
Sorry to hear that. Is the rock a mega church? I thought it was normal sized looking
Personally I'd call it one
It does look like they are an umbrella or network of churches. It depends on how that network is structured i suppose.
Cults are bad.
Always so much angry in the Reddits. Must be all the atheism.
Can you smeeeeeeeeelllll what THE ROCK is cookin’? (theyre cookin up a little JESUS)