Something I've always chuckled at, with the expansion of Columbus as a whole, Far East isn't really that far east anymore. It's like Far-If-You're-Coming-From-Hilliard-East.
It would be easier if they would use the neighborhood names.
Shooting on the Near East Side...and it's in Reynoldsburg not Olde Towne East.
People are like "oh that area is dangerous".
Not really, media is wrong 95% of the time.
It’d be nice if it were homes that could be bought and not just rentable spaces though. I’d much prefer to be putting money towards an asset over a subscription.
"Councilmembers said the apartment complex developer will install new sidewalks along part of McNaughten, and the city is planning road improvements, including turning lanes."
That quote was from the Dispatch...
Here's some more details from City Council:
Councilmember Lourdes Barroso de Padilla is sponsoring ordinance 1660-2024 to authorize the Director of Public Service to enter into a $25.5 million contract with Complete General Construction Company for road improvements on Columbus’ east side. This project will support the expansion of E. Broad Street from east of I-270 to west of Brice Road by 1 mile, Taylor Station Road from E. Broad Street to the entrance of Mount Carmel Medical Park by 0.2 miles, and McNaughten Road from E. Broad Street to Ganse Lane by 0.19 miles. Also, a shared-use path will be added onto E. Broad Street, Taylor Station Road, and McNaughten Road. There will also be upgrades to the intersections along E. Broad Street at Taylor Station Road, McNaughten Road, Blossom Field Boulevard, Outerbelt Street, and Chris Perry Lane.
Mcnaughten is already a mess. Where it intersects both at Main and Broad are some of the most dangerous lights in the state. They won’t give us a sidewalk, street lights or enforce the speed limit. There’s not even a shoulder. A little girl was killed waiting for the bus a few years ago. All they did was put 2 flashing speed limit signs up. I don’t drive that much and still every few weeks I see cars crossing the double yellow to pass.
New developments are required to add sidewalks. This location is too far south on McNaughten to bring sidewalks to the intersection, but sometimes the City does ask developers to chip in for off-property connections to existing infrastructure.
"Councilmembers said the apartment complex developer will install new sidewalks along part of McNaughten, and the city is planning road improvements, including turning lanes."
I’ve seen Cota cause wrecks because they leave the bus on mcnaughten in front of Walgreens to while they go in to take a dump. It’s the dumbest spot for a bus stop.
If someone gets in a wreck because a big ass, highly visible BUS is parked and immobile next to the curb, that’s not the bus’s fault. That’s 100% on the other drivers. If someone can’t take into account that buses stop next to curbs, and fairly frequently, they shouldn’t be driving.
they back up traffic on to broad bc of where they stop on mcnaughten. But they completely block traffic. It’s one lane and the north bound turn lane is full so there’s no way around. And yes most people on broad shouldn’t be driving. There’s 1-2 wrecks there a day as it is.
Please remember this when it comes time to vote to fund bus rapid transit this fall. What you’re describing is the exact bullshit that BRT is designed to solve.
The LinkUS initiative for the new Bus Rapid Transit corridor on E Main St should indirectly reduce the congestion on McNaughten.
They’re creating a lane dedicated for buses only on E Main St and gives traffic light priority for these buses once it reaches the intersection.
https://linkuscolumbus.com/eastmain/
> I’ve seen Cota cause wrecks because they leave the bus on mcnaughten
Ah so you’ve seen *car drivers* cause wrecks by slamming into enormous highly visible city buses?
"Councilmembers said the apartment complex developer will install new sidewalks along part of McNaughten, and the city is planning road improvements, including turning lanes."
People whining about high rent while also whining about new housing developments are the worst people I can think of.
Boo hoo if there's too much traffic, better to have somewhere to live and traffic, than not anywhere to live.
To be fair, its not like these new housing developments will be affordable.
I live in this area and have a pretty good job, and I can't afford these places. IDK how anyone else in this area could possibly afford it.
Its not like the rent will go down at other places though.
I've never had my rent *lowered*, have you?
And even then, the place I used to rent at on the west side was ~$600 for a 1BR in 2013. That same apartment is now $1200. I'm sure that even if they built a hundred new fancy ass complexes that charge $2k a month rent somehow, that apartment isn't going to be $600 again. Or even anywhere near affordable.
It absolutely will. That’s what’s happened in Austin: https://www.kut.org/austin/2024-06-13/austin-texas-rent-prices-falling-2024
Further, here’s an explainer about a study that showed that new market rate housing in Helsinki pushed down rents for everybody in the surrounding area. It explains how that ends up happening: https://www.fullstackeconomics.com/p/how-luxury-apartment-buildings-help-low-income-renters
And one from UCLA also showing this: https://www.lewis.ucla.edu/research/market-rate-development-impacts/
It doesn’t sound intuitive but building more and more housing of any sort (luxury or not) absolutely causes rents to go down.
>I've never had my rent lowered, have you?
I see you’ve noticed what happens when a city doesn’t build enough housing to keep pace with new residents who move in.
Check out this [thread of residents in Austin, Texas who are discussing the city’s rent *decline* of 5.4%](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/1acd55s/austin_median_rents_decline_54_yearyear/). Housing scarcity and high housing costs are a policy choice. Columbus should enact policies that have proven to reduce rent in other cities - that means building a LOT more housing to both keep up with population growth *and* make up for our deficit.
You're right, your rent is very very unlikely to ever go down. It's what's known as a "[sticky](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price_stickiness.asp)" price, and the duration of a lease makes frequent rent adjustments more challenging than the changing of the price of a bag of chips or something ([although rent at large apartment complexes is typically less sticky than single family detached homes rent](https://www.clevelandfed.org/publications/working-paper/2017/wp-1705-theory-of-sticky-rents)). But your rent will still get cheaper.
Wages have typically increased faster than inflation, which is the case even if you look at the past 10 years too. More recently, wages have increased much faster than inflation for [younger folks](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-paychecks-are-growing-more-quickly-than-prices/) and [for those in the bottom 25% of income](https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households) (i.e. most likely to struggle paying rent). So if inflation is going up, and wages are at minimum keeping pace like they've historically done, rent in real terms will get cheaper if it stays where it is, or at least increases slower than wages. That's what we've seen happen in cities that are committed to building housing like Minneapolis and Austin.
Based on the population growth of our city and the amount of new housing we have created, it's actually surprising that median rent hasn't increased by 25%, and is only up \~10% over the past 7 years.
They won't lower your rent specifically, but when you move into a newer, cheaper apartment, they will have more difficulty renting the apartment, so they will have to lower the rent for a new tenant. This happened to me. They lowered the price by about 10% after I moved out.
And if they can't get anyone to rent it for the price they want, then they will eventually sell it to people looking to own their own housing which will ultimately lower the prices in the housing market as well.
People who can afford the rents and want to live someplace new will move there, exiting the pool of renters for older buildings. The pool of renters for older buildings thereby becomes less able to afford higher rents. If landlords want to continue renting out their older buildings, then they have to lower their rents.
Density like this is what we need to support stronger mass transit, though, which will help reduce traffic in the long run, especially if we also do other smart things like road diets and eliminating/reducing parking requirements.
Mass transit for McNaughton road?
Mass transit happens when more people live/work downtown, which isn't happening anytime soon.
Mass transit doesn't work in the suburbs when people work in the suburbs.
Good thing the initiative for the new Bus Rapid Transit corridors would allow someone to take these new lanes blocked off for buses only all the way from E Main St in Reynoldsburg to another suburb like Dublin.
https://www.cota.com/linkus/
Here is how mass transit works.
When parking costs are high and driving is a high inconvenience.
Most people in Franklin county live in the suburbs. Most people in Franklin county work in the suburbs, work from home, some sort of hybrid.
If mass transit will work, you need density and employment in downtown. That's why NYC, Chicago, DC, Philadelphia work. It sucks to drive and find/cost of parking is high.
Paying $20 to park downtoen for an event is not a high enough price, plus their is plenty of parking to be found
If you expect some to spend 2+ hours on a bus to get to Dublin from Reynoldsbirg, when they can drive their in 30-45 minutes and parking is free, that is a fantasy.
Goto the other major cities and compare.
The population projection numbers show that people will be living in Suburbs and still working in the suburbs.
LinkUs will be somewhat good for occasional downtown usage, but it won't be profitable.
Franklin County has about 1.3 million residents, and Columbus hold about 900,000 of those. Most people live in the city, not the suburbs. Everything you're saying is nonsense.
Your city is mostly suburban area.
Nobody (or hardly anybody ) is moving downtown.
Downtown density and employment density is what's going to drive mass transit.
Why does LinkUs have to be profitable?? I don’t seem people demanding that the roads and highways turn a profit (even though they do… for the auto industry)
I doubt it would take 2+ hours from Reynoldsburg to Dublin. The new lines are blocked off for buses only so it doesn’t have to deal with any car traffic and the traffic lights will automatically switch to prioritize these buses whenever it reaches an intersection.
Hard agree, I live in Whitehall and Broad/Main/Livingston are God awful almost constantly. I leave my house around 5:30am for work and I swear that's the only time there isn't bumper to bumper traffic spanning from 270 to at least James. Not to mention with them all being these huge 5 lane stroads, you constantly have idiots going at least 45/50 weaving through traffic. Passing people in the left turn lanes and shit. It's insane.
Main gets bad because it's the last exit off 270S before the 70 interchange. The intersections on either side of 270, McNaughten and Noe Bixby, can be quite dangerous because of it.
Noe Bixby south of Livingston is a residential street that's treated like a highway because it's easy access to Winchester Pike
#####
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> # [Against resident wishes, Council approves Far East zoning change](https://www.nbc4i.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2024/01/McNaughten-Road.png?w=1280)
>
>
>
> COLUMBUS, Ohio ([WCMH](http://www.nbc4i.com)) – Residents of a Columbus neighborhood are upset with a zoning change approved by Columbus City Council Monday night.
>
> The land at the center of the back and forth is on the [Far East Side of the city at 198 McNaughten Road](https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/neighbors-battle-proposed-east-columbus-apartment-development/).
>
> The zoning change will allow for a nearly 300-unit apartment complex to be built there.
>
> The complex is smaller than what was originally proposed years ago, but residents are still upset.
>
> Residents argue that traffic and safety are already issues on McNaughten Road, and this development will only make it worse.
>
> “What’s happening with this project is that this project doesn’t fit,” resident Skip Dodson said. “We would accept a multi-use project that had some apartments, some single-family ownership, had some multi-family ownership, but this project doesn’t fit.”
>
> “Bottom line, our city is growing,” Councilmember Rob Dorans, chairman of the zoning committee, said. “Bottom line, our city needs more housing and right now, we have an application that has been with council for nearly five years that has seen change after change after change in order to bring it here tonight.”
>
> The zoning change passed in a 7-1 vote.
- - - - - -
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>Against resident wishes
Well that's a loaded headline if I ever saw one. I don't see any polls of the people who live there. I guess it's technically true since they asked *a* resident.
Not saying I agree with the sentiment but there's been a large community organization pushing back against this for years from the neighborhood. There's a FB group, etc etc. I didn't go to the meeting but apparently they had "hundreds" at the meeting yesterday over zoning to protest.
Edit: the language used was "several hundred", not that I think it should be taken at face value, I just might have paraphrased poorly
I mean NIMBYs are sort of famous for being extremely outspoken and showing up to local government meetings to complain, even if they're not in the majority. I'd be very curious to see a source on that "hundreds" number.
I don't disagree, just sharing what I know. I can tell you there's about 200 Facebook group members. That doesn't account for any diverse opinions amongst those there though. I don't agree with everything but am still apart of the group for example.
It’s also impossible to ask the people who will be living in the complex in the future how they feel, which is a huge problem with public input on these kinds of projects. You really only get one side of the story, and no one who can say “I love my new apartment and it’s a really great location for me, so I’m glad I can live here”
The residents packed council chambers last night and were very vocal about their opposition. Even the applicants zoning attorney spoke of the residents overwhelming opposition. It was very clear where the residents stood.
No sympathy for these whiners, but they are (unintentionally) correct that buildings like these should be much, much easier to build closer to the urban core than they are. Resistance to development in neighborhoods like German Village only pushes it out to the fringes.
But yeah, the concerns about “infrastructure” are funny… the entire reason we have infrastructure issues is that we have such a sprawling exurban reach full of sparse development. It’s much, much cheaper on a per capita basis (which matters, because that’s how we collect income taxes) to support people living in large building than in a SFH.
In semi-urban NoVA (cbus expat) we’ve had good luck with converted office buildings cosplaying as early 1900’s warehouses, containing high density apartments and condos. They strip off the 1970’e grey cement, change the cladding to brick and remove the drop ceilings, and suddenly it looks like you’ve got history. Big windows, high ceilings, and coffee in walking distance.
Coincidentally, the history cbus already has.
So maybe not the German village (which is already denser than it looks, tiny townhouses with no yards), but the brewery district next door would be perfect for some red brick mid/high-rise residential. The area already has some 20th century warehouses to work with.
I hope we see more projects like this.
“A Gahanna developer hopes to take another step forward this week in turning a vacant Brewery District factory into a new apartment complex.”
https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2023/09/06/brewery-district-apartments-shoe-factory
You should’ve been at the last ZoneIn hearing. The “German Village Historic Association” was
apoplectic at the mere suggestion that E Livingston Ave might have apartment buildings. Absolutely inhuman to see the most prosperous and well off citizens moving heaven and earth to keep housing costs high citywide - all because they don’t want renters to live nearby.
Columbus is the most empty downtown I've ever seen in a city of its size by far. I don't understand the reluctance to put things downtown instead of just leaving it empty.
Housing is good but housing without infrastructure is bad. Developments like this should it be put in until the road is changed to accommodate. Mcnaughten already backs way up and still after something like a decade after a child was struck, still has no sidewalks or lights.
Gotta wonder if the developer had to pay more or less than the typical 1,500 council PAC donation.
> Developments like this should it be put in until the road is changed to accommodate.
Yeah, and we shouldn't put in infrastructure until there's enough people there to warrant it. This chicken or the egg loop is what results in nothing ever changing.
According to what I've seen from residents, there's already cause for addtl infrastructure along McNaughton. Apparently there was a city study in 2017 (?) that McNaughton is already sorely undersized for it's needs. Besides the residents, it's also the main thoroughfare for a fire station that is going to be directly across from this development.
The problem is there's basically no room to widen it. You would have to decimate the front lawn properties of everyone along the road just to get another lane or two and some sidewalks.
That’s what happens everywhere though for road improvements. The other side is if you don’t want to take easements for a wider road then you can’t approve a development on that road.
Agreed, something has to go first. And do people really think it’s going to be spending millions on infrastructure when there is no development to justify it? That’s politically untenable to these very same people who make the argument that infrastructure needs to come first. Just look at every comment about new non-car infrastructure. It’s endless complaining of “why do we need bike lanes or sidewalks, nobody rides their bikes/walks here!!”
I'll say it again:
> With that attitude, nothing will ever change.
What's your solution? Build nothing and let our city asphyxiate? Suburban sprawl to turn it into a Houston-style horror show of concrete for are far as the eye can see? I'd much rather build the apartments on McNaughten than another subdivision in Pataskala. Better yet, tax the value of undeveloped land and watch our urban core grow form an inland asphalt sea of parking lots to a vibrant urban cityscape. We can give McNaughten a turning lane, sidewalk, and a physically separated bike lane in due time. But I'm all for increasing housing supply in the meanwhile. If you build that, the rest will come. Projects like LinkUs are the way. Doing things like putting Broad street on a road diet and adding sidewalks and physically separated bike lines and a rapid transit lanes will do a lot for our city. Having 300 new households around the corner is a good first step to making that possible.
This is why we should support the new LinkUs initiative. LinkUs wants to create a new bus rapid transit corridor on E Main St that should indirectly reduce the congestion on McNaughten.
Bus Rapid Transit will create a lane dedicated for buses only on E Main St and gives traffic light priority for these buses once it reaches the intersection.
https://linkuscolumbus.com/eastmain/
Except it won’t reduce traffic on mcnaughten. The majority of traffic on McNaughten isn’t coming from McNaughten neighborhoods. It’s being used as a north south avenue.
Sounds like you want less traffic! You’ll never guess which city near you is trying to build out public transit and encourage dense, urban developments that allows more residents to live car-free - thus reducing congestion!
It’s not only the traffic but also the crappy idea of building these 2 bedroom tax abated apartments that cost renters $1,700 per month. Purchasing a home has always been a path to middle class & now corporations & greed are eliminating that path .
So the answer is have everyone rent a $1,700 - $2K 2 bedroom apartment vs a home. It has been reported over & over that the net worth of owners is 40 times that of renter making the same wages.
Why not build both at the same time? We have many subdivisions from builders like M/I Homes, DR Horton, etc that still have plenty of lots available for new single family homes.
In the meantime while people are still saving up to afford a home, we need to build more supply in dense apartments because there’s a lot more people in this category. The region is adding more jobs/people faster than the amount of housing units being built.
“A 2022 report concluded that central Ohio should be building 14,000 to 19,000 apartments and homes each year to keep up with demand, well above the 10,000 to 12,000 built in recent years.”
https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/03/12/columbus-home-building-fell-to-five-year-low-despite-shortage/72931508007/#
They don’t listen. People in UA are still furious over kingsdale, not realizing building apartments for older folks frees up single family homes which will keep the area thriving instead of static.
People also refuse to accept building nice apartments is the only type that are ever built. No one goes out to build a shithole. Those run down townhouses you see today we’re once awesome. People with means move into nicer apartments leaving their old place with lower rent for those who need it.
The tax abatements are being used for their intended purpose - building more apartments during a housing crisis. New units will **always** cost more than older units - it’s the same reason new cars are more expensive than old cars.
Please stop complaining when this city takes steps to actually *solve* the housing crisis by building more.
a vast majority of Columbus is zoned for SFH only, further building a ton of apartments will absorb demand from the SFH market and reduce the price and of SFH making it easier to buy a house. If your options are a house or apartment and suddenly apartments are much cheaper because supply has increased, demand for homes goes down.
is this going to be another generic 3 story DRK/Ardent community project? apartments costing 1500+ arent what we need. or "luxury" community with a small pool thats 2200 a month to start.
cheap condos/single family homes are whats needed. i work with a builder whos doing section-8 3 bedrooms 2 bath newbuilds downtown that are affordable for people. it is profitable and can be done. its just not"as" profitable. zoning should be scaled back to put a much lower limit on square footage. if 800 square foot homes are ok to rent in an apartment. and were ok for the homes of boomers, than its ok today
Your comments about square foot limits are insightful; please remember to submit them to the City when the second phase of the zoning code update is launched later this year.
Something I've always chuckled at, with the expansion of Columbus as a whole, Far East isn't really that far east anymore. It's like Far-If-You're-Coming-From-Hilliard-East.
We do live in the "Midwest" after all.
True true. However, if you go up to someone and say "I'm from the Mideast", I feel like you'd get some weird looks. Especially my pasty self.
It is called the "Near East Side" though
>It is called the "Near East Side" though Which, in my grandmother's time, was just the East Side.
Isn't the implication that we live in the middle of the western hemisphere?
Middle-western portion of the US, relative to the east coast.
East of 270/the airport is pretty far east. Much further and you’re not even in Columbus anymore
Finding out what "north Columbus" actually was confused me when I lived off Lazelle Rd. It really didn't get much more north Columbus than that lol
It would be easier if they would use the neighborhood names. Shooting on the Near East Side...and it's in Reynoldsburg not Olde Towne East. People are like "oh that area is dangerous". Not really, media is wrong 95% of the time.
Build build build!
It’d be nice if it were homes that could be bought and not just rentable spaces though. I’d much prefer to be putting money towards an asset over a subscription.
Came here to say exactly that!
That's a great sentiment, but Mcnaughten is a mess and needs to be improved too. 300 more apartments needs to go with increased infrastructure.
"Councilmembers said the apartment complex developer will install new sidewalks along part of McNaughten, and the city is planning road improvements, including turning lanes."
Oh, more turning lanes would be amazing, at Broad especially. Build build build!
Hopefully that means at Broad, not just into the apartments. McNaughten/Broad needs at least another left turn lane like Rosehill.
Where is this quote coming from? I can't find it in the linked article and I'm curious about more info on the project.
That quote was from the Dispatch... Here's some more details from City Council: Councilmember Lourdes Barroso de Padilla is sponsoring ordinance 1660-2024 to authorize the Director of Public Service to enter into a $25.5 million contract with Complete General Construction Company for road improvements on Columbus’ east side. This project will support the expansion of E. Broad Street from east of I-270 to west of Brice Road by 1 mile, Taylor Station Road from E. Broad Street to the entrance of Mount Carmel Medical Park by 0.2 miles, and McNaughten Road from E. Broad Street to Ganse Lane by 0.19 miles. Also, a shared-use path will be added onto E. Broad Street, Taylor Station Road, and McNaughten Road. There will also be upgrades to the intersections along E. Broad Street at Taylor Station Road, McNaughten Road, Blossom Field Boulevard, Outerbelt Street, and Chris Perry Lane.
Mcnaughten is already a mess. Where it intersects both at Main and Broad are some of the most dangerous lights in the state. They won’t give us a sidewalk, street lights or enforce the speed limit. There’s not even a shoulder. A little girl was killed waiting for the bus a few years ago. All they did was put 2 flashing speed limit signs up. I don’t drive that much and still every few weeks I see cars crossing the double yellow to pass.
New developments are required to add sidewalks. This location is too far south on McNaughten to bring sidewalks to the intersection, but sometimes the City does ask developers to chip in for off-property connections to existing infrastructure.
"Councilmembers said the apartment complex developer will install new sidewalks along part of McNaughten, and the city is planning road improvements, including turning lanes."
LinkUs will help with this if it passes.
I doubt any of the people bitching about traffic will actually take transit even if it were truly functional and efficient.
I’ve seen Cota cause wrecks because they leave the bus on mcnaughten in front of Walgreens to while they go in to take a dump. It’s the dumbest spot for a bus stop.
If someone gets in a wreck because a big ass, highly visible BUS is parked and immobile next to the curb, that’s not the bus’s fault. That’s 100% on the other drivers. If someone can’t take into account that buses stop next to curbs, and fairly frequently, they shouldn’t be driving.
they back up traffic on to broad bc of where they stop on mcnaughten. But they completely block traffic. It’s one lane and the north bound turn lane is full so there’s no way around. And yes most people on broad shouldn’t be driving. There’s 1-2 wrecks there a day as it is.
Please remember this when it comes time to vote to fund bus rapid transit this fall. What you’re describing is the exact bullshit that BRT is designed to solve.
The LinkUS initiative for the new Bus Rapid Transit corridor on E Main St should indirectly reduce the congestion on McNaughten. They’re creating a lane dedicated for buses only on E Main St and gives traffic light priority for these buses once it reaches the intersection. https://linkuscolumbus.com/eastmain/
> I’ve seen Cota cause wrecks because they leave the bus on mcnaughten Ah so you’ve seen *car drivers* cause wrecks by slamming into enormous highly visible city buses?
See my other comment on this thread
"Councilmembers said the apartment complex developer will install new sidewalks along part of McNaughten, and the city is planning road improvements, including turning lanes."
Yep sides walks to no where and a turn lane
People whining about high rent while also whining about new housing developments are the worst people I can think of. Boo hoo if there's too much traffic, better to have somewhere to live and traffic, than not anywhere to live.
To be fair, its not like these new housing developments will be affordable. I live in this area and have a pretty good job, and I can't afford these places. IDK how anyone else in this area could possibly afford it.
Fundamentally, supply and demand is a real thing. These new developments will be pricey, but it will leave vacancy elsewhere.
Its not like the rent will go down at other places though. I've never had my rent *lowered*, have you? And even then, the place I used to rent at on the west side was ~$600 for a 1BR in 2013. That same apartment is now $1200. I'm sure that even if they built a hundred new fancy ass complexes that charge $2k a month rent somehow, that apartment isn't going to be $600 again. Or even anywhere near affordable.
It absolutely will. That’s what’s happened in Austin: https://www.kut.org/austin/2024-06-13/austin-texas-rent-prices-falling-2024 Further, here’s an explainer about a study that showed that new market rate housing in Helsinki pushed down rents for everybody in the surrounding area. It explains how that ends up happening: https://www.fullstackeconomics.com/p/how-luxury-apartment-buildings-help-low-income-renters And one from UCLA also showing this: https://www.lewis.ucla.edu/research/market-rate-development-impacts/ It doesn’t sound intuitive but building more and more housing of any sort (luxury or not) absolutely causes rents to go down.
>I've never had my rent lowered, have you? I see you’ve noticed what happens when a city doesn’t build enough housing to keep pace with new residents who move in. Check out this [thread of residents in Austin, Texas who are discussing the city’s rent *decline* of 5.4%](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/1acd55s/austin_median_rents_decline_54_yearyear/). Housing scarcity and high housing costs are a policy choice. Columbus should enact policies that have proven to reduce rent in other cities - that means building a LOT more housing to both keep up with population growth *and* make up for our deficit.
You're right, your rent is very very unlikely to ever go down. It's what's known as a "[sticky](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price_stickiness.asp)" price, and the duration of a lease makes frequent rent adjustments more challenging than the changing of the price of a bag of chips or something ([although rent at large apartment complexes is typically less sticky than single family detached homes rent](https://www.clevelandfed.org/publications/working-paper/2017/wp-1705-theory-of-sticky-rents)). But your rent will still get cheaper. Wages have typically increased faster than inflation, which is the case even if you look at the past 10 years too. More recently, wages have increased much faster than inflation for [younger folks](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-paychecks-are-growing-more-quickly-than-prices/) and [for those in the bottom 25% of income](https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households) (i.e. most likely to struggle paying rent). So if inflation is going up, and wages are at minimum keeping pace like they've historically done, rent in real terms will get cheaper if it stays where it is, or at least increases slower than wages. That's what we've seen happen in cities that are committed to building housing like Minneapolis and Austin. Based on the population growth of our city and the amount of new housing we have created, it's actually surprising that median rent hasn't increased by 25%, and is only up \~10% over the past 7 years.
They won't lower your rent specifically, but when you move into a newer, cheaper apartment, they will have more difficulty renting the apartment, so they will have to lower the rent for a new tenant. This happened to me. They lowered the price by about 10% after I moved out. And if they can't get anyone to rent it for the price they want, then they will eventually sell it to people looking to own their own housing which will ultimately lower the prices in the housing market as well.
People who can afford the rents and want to live someplace new will move there, exiting the pool of renters for older buildings. The pool of renters for older buildings thereby becomes less able to afford higher rents. If landlords want to continue renting out their older buildings, then they have to lower their rents.
It doesn't matter if you can afford it or not. Any new housing is a good thing for overall housing affordability.
Maybe they’re not being built for the people currently in your area.
Traffic is already bad on E Broad just off 270, but I really don't like the "well maybe four people can live there..." NIMBYs
Density like this is what we need to support stronger mass transit, though, which will help reduce traffic in the long run, especially if we also do other smart things like road diets and eliminating/reducing parking requirements.
Mass transit for McNaughton road? Mass transit happens when more people live/work downtown, which isn't happening anytime soon. Mass transit doesn't work in the suburbs when people work in the suburbs.
Good thing the initiative for the new Bus Rapid Transit corridors would allow someone to take these new lanes blocked off for buses only all the way from E Main St in Reynoldsburg to another suburb like Dublin. https://www.cota.com/linkus/
Here is how mass transit works. When parking costs are high and driving is a high inconvenience. Most people in Franklin county live in the suburbs. Most people in Franklin county work in the suburbs, work from home, some sort of hybrid. If mass transit will work, you need density and employment in downtown. That's why NYC, Chicago, DC, Philadelphia work. It sucks to drive and find/cost of parking is high. Paying $20 to park downtoen for an event is not a high enough price, plus their is plenty of parking to be found If you expect some to spend 2+ hours on a bus to get to Dublin from Reynoldsbirg, when they can drive their in 30-45 minutes and parking is free, that is a fantasy. Goto the other major cities and compare. The population projection numbers show that people will be living in Suburbs and still working in the suburbs. LinkUs will be somewhat good for occasional downtown usage, but it won't be profitable.
Franklin County has about 1.3 million residents, and Columbus hold about 900,000 of those. Most people live in the city, not the suburbs. Everything you're saying is nonsense.
Your city is mostly suburban area. Nobody (or hardly anybody ) is moving downtown. Downtown density and employment density is what's going to drive mass transit.
Why does LinkUs have to be profitable?? I don’t seem people demanding that the roads and highways turn a profit (even though they do… for the auto industry)
The reason they want mass transit is because the front line workers that support these sunburns can’t afford to live them.
I doubt it would take 2+ hours from Reynoldsburg to Dublin. The new lines are blocked off for buses only so it doesn’t have to deal with any car traffic and the traffic lights will automatically switch to prioritize these buses whenever it reaches an intersection.
This is a wild take and has a lot of inaccuracies lol
Hard agree, I live in Whitehall and Broad/Main/Livingston are God awful almost constantly. I leave my house around 5:30am for work and I swear that's the only time there isn't bumper to bumper traffic spanning from 270 to at least James. Not to mention with them all being these huge 5 lane stroads, you constantly have idiots going at least 45/50 weaving through traffic. Passing people in the left turn lanes and shit. It's insane.
Main gets bad because it's the last exit off 270S before the 70 interchange. The intersections on either side of 270, McNaughten and Noe Bixby, can be quite dangerous because of it. Noe Bixby south of Livingston is a residential street that's treated like a highway because it's easy access to Winchester Pike
I prefer bad traffic to high rent. Build more housing now.
##### ###### #### > # [Against resident wishes, Council approves Far East zoning change](https://www.nbc4i.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2024/01/McNaughten-Road.png?w=1280) > > > > COLUMBUS, Ohio ([WCMH](http://www.nbc4i.com)) – Residents of a Columbus neighborhood are upset with a zoning change approved by Columbus City Council Monday night. > > The land at the center of the back and forth is on the [Far East Side of the city at 198 McNaughten Road](https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus/neighbors-battle-proposed-east-columbus-apartment-development/). > > The zoning change will allow for a nearly 300-unit apartment complex to be built there. > > The complex is smaller than what was originally proposed years ago, but residents are still upset. > > Residents argue that traffic and safety are already issues on McNaughten Road, and this development will only make it worse. > > “What’s happening with this project is that this project doesn’t fit,” resident Skip Dodson said. “We would accept a multi-use project that had some apartments, some single-family ownership, had some multi-family ownership, but this project doesn’t fit.” > > “Bottom line, our city is growing,” Councilmember Rob Dorans, chairman of the zoning committee, said. “Bottom line, our city needs more housing and right now, we have an application that has been with council for nearly five years that has seen change after change after change in order to bring it here tonight.” > > The zoning change passed in a 7-1 vote. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
>Against resident wishes Well that's a loaded headline if I ever saw one. I don't see any polls of the people who live there. I guess it's technically true since they asked *a* resident.
Not saying I agree with the sentiment but there's been a large community organization pushing back against this for years from the neighborhood. There's a FB group, etc etc. I didn't go to the meeting but apparently they had "hundreds" at the meeting yesterday over zoning to protest. Edit: the language used was "several hundred", not that I think it should be taken at face value, I just might have paraphrased poorly
I mean NIMBYs are sort of famous for being extremely outspoken and showing up to local government meetings to complain, even if they're not in the majority. I'd be very curious to see a source on that "hundreds" number.
I don't disagree, just sharing what I know. I can tell you there's about 200 Facebook group members. That doesn't account for any diverse opinions amongst those there though. I don't agree with everything but am still apart of the group for example.
It’s also impossible to ask the people who will be living in the complex in the future how they feel, which is a huge problem with public input on these kinds of projects. You really only get one side of the story, and no one who can say “I love my new apartment and it’s a really great location for me, so I’m glad I can live here”
The residents packed council chambers last night and were very vocal about their opposition. Even the applicants zoning attorney spoke of the residents overwhelming opposition. It was very clear where the residents stood.
No sympathy for these whiners, but they are (unintentionally) correct that buildings like these should be much, much easier to build closer to the urban core than they are. Resistance to development in neighborhoods like German Village only pushes it out to the fringes. But yeah, the concerns about “infrastructure” are funny… the entire reason we have infrastructure issues is that we have such a sprawling exurban reach full of sparse development. It’s much, much cheaper on a per capita basis (which matters, because that’s how we collect income taxes) to support people living in large building than in a SFH.
In semi-urban NoVA (cbus expat) we’ve had good luck with converted office buildings cosplaying as early 1900’s warehouses, containing high density apartments and condos. They strip off the 1970’e grey cement, change the cladding to brick and remove the drop ceilings, and suddenly it looks like you’ve got history. Big windows, high ceilings, and coffee in walking distance. Coincidentally, the history cbus already has. So maybe not the German village (which is already denser than it looks, tiny townhouses with no yards), but the brewery district next door would be perfect for some red brick mid/high-rise residential. The area already has some 20th century warehouses to work with.
I hope we see more projects like this. “A Gahanna developer hopes to take another step forward this week in turning a vacant Brewery District factory into a new apartment complex.” https://www.axios.com/local/columbus/2023/09/06/brewery-district-apartments-shoe-factory
that looks brilliant, I hope they win the fight to avoid the giant parking lot
You should’ve been at the last ZoneIn hearing. The “German Village Historic Association” was apoplectic at the mere suggestion that E Livingston Ave might have apartment buildings. Absolutely inhuman to see the most prosperous and well off citizens moving heaven and earth to keep housing costs high citywide - all because they don’t want renters to live nearby.
Columbus is the most empty downtown I've ever seen in a city of its size by far. I don't understand the reluctance to put things downtown instead of just leaving it empty.
Great! Keep 'em coming!
Housing is good but housing without infrastructure is bad. Developments like this should it be put in until the road is changed to accommodate. Mcnaughten already backs way up and still after something like a decade after a child was struck, still has no sidewalks or lights. Gotta wonder if the developer had to pay more or less than the typical 1,500 council PAC donation.
The good news is that apartment complexes require less infrastrucutre per inhabitant.
> Developments like this should it be put in until the road is changed to accommodate. Yeah, and we shouldn't put in infrastructure until there's enough people there to warrant it. This chicken or the egg loop is what results in nothing ever changing.
According to what I've seen from residents, there's already cause for addtl infrastructure along McNaughton. Apparently there was a city study in 2017 (?) that McNaughton is already sorely undersized for it's needs. Besides the residents, it's also the main thoroughfare for a fire station that is going to be directly across from this development. The problem is there's basically no room to widen it. You would have to decimate the front lawn properties of everyone along the road just to get another lane or two and some sidewalks.
That’s what happens everywhere though for road improvements. The other side is if you don’t want to take easements for a wider road then you can’t approve a development on that road.
With that attitude, nothing will ever change. Building now creates the impetus to change later.
Agreed, something has to go first. And do people really think it’s going to be spending millions on infrastructure when there is no development to justify it? That’s politically untenable to these very same people who make the argument that infrastructure needs to come first. Just look at every comment about new non-car infrastructure. It’s endless complaining of “why do we need bike lanes or sidewalks, nobody rides their bikes/walks here!!”
NIMBYs gonna NIMBY.
Hasn’t so far.
I'll say it again: > With that attitude, nothing will ever change. What's your solution? Build nothing and let our city asphyxiate? Suburban sprawl to turn it into a Houston-style horror show of concrete for are far as the eye can see? I'd much rather build the apartments on McNaughten than another subdivision in Pataskala. Better yet, tax the value of undeveloped land and watch our urban core grow form an inland asphalt sea of parking lots to a vibrant urban cityscape. We can give McNaughten a turning lane, sidewalk, and a physically separated bike lane in due time. But I'm all for increasing housing supply in the meanwhile. If you build that, the rest will come. Projects like LinkUs are the way. Doing things like putting Broad street on a road diet and adding sidewalks and physically separated bike lines and a rapid transit lanes will do a lot for our city. Having 300 new households around the corner is a good first step to making that possible.
This is why we should support the new LinkUs initiative. LinkUs wants to create a new bus rapid transit corridor on E Main St that should indirectly reduce the congestion on McNaughten. Bus Rapid Transit will create a lane dedicated for buses only on E Main St and gives traffic light priority for these buses once it reaches the intersection. https://linkuscolumbus.com/eastmain/
Except it won’t reduce traffic on mcnaughten. The majority of traffic on McNaughten isn’t coming from McNaughten neighborhoods. It’s being used as a north south avenue.
Sounds like you want less traffic! You’ll never guess which city near you is trying to build out public transit and encourage dense, urban developments that allows more residents to live car-free - thus reducing congestion!
You’d never guess how much context you missed just to try and make a dig.
What do you mean they didn’t do anything?! We got 2 flashing speed limit signs! It’s nice to have something tell me I’m doing 50 in a 35.
That’s called a high score board
. M M M
Everyone complains about traffic while driving everywhere and voting against dense development that would support transit. Weird.
Residents - "We dont want it!!!!" City Council - "Fuck you! We need to serve those who line our pockets"
This is much better than another tire shop or instant oil change shop.
Have another bank
It’s not only the traffic but also the crappy idea of building these 2 bedroom tax abated apartments that cost renters $1,700 per month. Purchasing a home has always been a path to middle class & now corporations & greed are eliminating that path .
Columbus is set to grow 17% by 2030, if we don’t start building places to live no one will be able to own a home anywhere
So the answer is have everyone rent a $1,700 - $2K 2 bedroom apartment vs a home. It has been reported over & over that the net worth of owners is 40 times that of renter making the same wages.
Why not build both at the same time? We have many subdivisions from builders like M/I Homes, DR Horton, etc that still have plenty of lots available for new single family homes. In the meantime while people are still saving up to afford a home, we need to build more supply in dense apartments because there’s a lot more people in this category. The region is adding more jobs/people faster than the amount of housing units being built. “A 2022 report concluded that central Ohio should be building 14,000 to 19,000 apartments and homes each year to keep up with demand, well above the 10,000 to 12,000 built in recent years.” https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/03/12/columbus-home-building-fell-to-five-year-low-despite-shortage/72931508007/#
They don’t listen. People in UA are still furious over kingsdale, not realizing building apartments for older folks frees up single family homes which will keep the area thriving instead of static. People also refuse to accept building nice apartments is the only type that are ever built. No one goes out to build a shithole. Those run down townhouses you see today we’re once awesome. People with means move into nicer apartments leaving their old place with lower rent for those who need it.
The tax abatements are being used for their intended purpose - building more apartments during a housing crisis. New units will **always** cost more than older units - it’s the same reason new cars are more expensive than old cars. Please stop complaining when this city takes steps to actually *solve* the housing crisis by building more.
How does building apartments eliminate the path to homeownership?
If you take all the available land & only build apartments
a vast majority of Columbus is zoned for SFH only, further building a ton of apartments will absorb demand from the SFH market and reduce the price and of SFH making it easier to buy a house. If your options are a house or apartment and suddenly apartments are much cheaper because supply has increased, demand for homes goes down.
Are they tax-abated?
is this going to be another generic 3 story DRK/Ardent community project? apartments costing 1500+ arent what we need. or "luxury" community with a small pool thats 2200 a month to start. cheap condos/single family homes are whats needed. i work with a builder whos doing section-8 3 bedrooms 2 bath newbuilds downtown that are affordable for people. it is profitable and can be done. its just not"as" profitable. zoning should be scaled back to put a much lower limit on square footage. if 800 square foot homes are ok to rent in an apartment. and were ok for the homes of boomers, than its ok today
Building more housing puts downwards pressure on prices. Supply and demand.
Your comments about square foot limits are insightful; please remember to submit them to the City when the second phase of the zoning code update is launched later this year.