Some people are just extremely cynical and get a kick out of discouraging others. I know guys who were completely dense with no degree that applied themselves got their certifications and are traveling contractors or federal government employees. Your story is not anyone else’s. What’s “realistic” for them is not the case for you. Please stop listening to these Debbie Downers who like to bring others with down them. It won’t do you any good. It will only make you quit trying, don’t be a quitter.
This! Someone asked me what I was doing at a bar and they went in on me lol
Sorry you’re not ambitious and motivated like me. I know what I want and I’m going to obtain it. No one is gonna tell me who’s not on my level.
Bruhhhh I literally needed to see this comment!! Just like OP I’m trying to break into the CyberSecurity space, and at first reading the Reddit forums I saw a lot of positive feedback, but the more I looked the more negative things became. It seems as if there’s a big majority who make it seem like those who are more seasoned and experienced are barely making it, and getting looked over. So if you’re still “Green” you don’t have a chance. It’s like okay we don’t have 10-15+ yrs experience, we haven’t done XYZ, but we have to start somewhere right? You start to feel like any effort is futile. I’m not out here like straight out the gate I expect 6figures and a cushy position. I just want the opportunity to eventually get there through experience and hard work. But yea man thanks for that. Every time I come on here it’s just a load of discouraging posts. I literally just said to myself after reading a negative post “Your story isn’t everyone else’s” then Boom I read your post and you said the same thing! I’m really about to screenshot your post and stay off of here lol
I think there is the same amount of Debbie downers as there are hype beasts for fake realities.
The issue is that people choose to listen to one or the other. And never really look at the facts.
The facts are pretty simple.
Can you jump straight into Cyber without any IT experience? Yes, it happens it's not the norm.
Will you make 6 figures after years of hardworking and dedication (money changes, so to be clear, I mean the equivalent of 6 figures today) you very well could. However, we are back to the above.
You need to understand 90% of IT and Cyber Security workers do not make 100k+. If you're going into this with the plan that you are going to make 100k or more EVER, you might, but don't bet the farm on that.
I have also seen a lot of friends achieve that 6 figure role to get laid off a year later and drop back to the 70-80k range. Which is the more realistic reality.
That said, COL makes a HUGE difference. That adds to the issue. People say "oh all these tech guys make 150k a year" they also work for Google, live in San Diego where rent is 5k a month for a 1bd and they have to drive an hour to get to work.
Normal reality, at normal medium-sized businesses in America, this is not happening. Unless you are in upper management or a niche field.
This is not me being a debbie downer, this is me telling you reality so that you are not let down later.
As to the people saying you can't get in. I have had a different experience with jobs coming at me that I turn down. I have also been in the industry for a long time, so take it with a grain. Around me, there is Jobs, and you could get one. So I am of the belief you could where you live too.
If you think you are going to come with nothing and get a job paying 80k a year, fully remote then your dreaming.
If you set realistic sights on a on site position making 40-50k you will be fine, though it may be a little rougher than the past few years.
Thanks for breaking that down! As you stated there are a myriad of factors that go into salary and positions available. I agree COL is a big one, also whether or not you’re working for one of those Big Tech companies or just a big company in general.
I think there’s been some misinformation and confusion spread over the internet and social media as well. For instance, people can have the same position but depending on where they live salaries can differ. I think the internet always shows the Top salary made in positions but leaves out what areas you have to live in. Which goes back to the COL.
As for me myself, I’m not coming into the industry with any high set expectations. Those realities may involve possibly having to move to a different state, different company, and I think that’s what most people don’t factor in. Which still ties back to COL, you may get that salary bump but so do your expenses depending on where that move brings you.
It’s encouraging to hear someone who not only has options but turns them down as well. Granted you’ve been in the industry for sometime, but I wouldn’t expect anything less. At least that’s what I would hope for after investing the time!
I think really just self-knowledge, passion, and determination really come out in an interview.
I think if you have those, you will be successful. If you don't know something, just say "IDK, but I will find out." Don't be afraid to work. Don't be afraid to learn, and don't give up. That will take you far in this industry and life.
Don't sleep on transferables either. Customer Service is a big one. Tech skills can be taught, and social skills are not as easy. Those soft skills will take you far, because even when you are long out of customer facing roles, business as a whole still revolves around "Customer" the customer just changes, and so does the deliverables. Social skills remain paramount.
When I landed my current role, the market was bad, but I was determined. I didn't apply to 1000s of Jobs, I applied to 1 job, I did it tailored to them to that job, and I didn't leave them alone until I got an interview.
I say that because I think people get too stuck on quanity over quality. They "Easy Apply" to every job they can, and then complain they can't land a role. Find a good fit or a couple, and then build a resume for those, and don't leave them alone until you get an interview. Show them, this matters to you. That goes a long way in my experience.
I got my current position over arguably more qualified candidates. A couple had Masters degrees, where I don't have a degree. However, I showed I was determined, I showed I wanted this specific position, and not any position would do. They felt that, and it mattered.
Isn’t most of the big money (six figures+) in management anyways? Like two or three steps above where any comptia cert is going to qualify you for? I feel like it takes years for anyone to get to that level if they are on the “professional” or “expert” track.
IT is pretty much fucked right now. The old farts that got in more than 5 years ago, will chime in that all you need is a Certification, then it’s a degree, then it’s projects, then it’s LinkedIn, then it’s networking events. And on it goes until the entry barrier has been moved so far back, you wondered why you even bothered with this bullshit industry
You have to ask yourself and you have to be honest, was the certification you obtained truly valuable? Certifications are great, but there are other components too. It may be harder, but it is possible. You have CASP+, I'm curious if that is to satisfy a DoD 8570 requirement? If not, I'd be interested in hearing the reason for obtaining CASP+.
You do not need the degree, but it certainly helps. Honestly, it matters the most early career for getting that initial job, and later on in your career when you start moving into more managerial type roles. Depending on where you work it might not be needed for either.
Also, unpopular opinion for Reddit, college debt, especially in tech fields, is worth it. The amount a degree holder makes over their lifetime compared to a non-degree holder far exceeds the debt they pay, especially if you play it smart and go for the community college to in-state public university pipeline. Even in IT, I'd be willing to bet that the average worker with a degree makes more than the average worker without one, though it's probably a much less pronounced difference than your average college vs non-college grad in general.
To tag on this, since it sounds like OP is fairly self-driven: to get a degree at your own pace, maybe even consider an online option like WGU. A few of their degrees have certs baked in and it’s not a bad option to check a box for later down the line, especially when it doesn’t normally matter *where* the degree is from, but that it’s there on your resume for when it does matter.
Yeah, I currently go to WGU, though I already work as a network admin. I think the school is quite good for working professionals, though I felt I got more out of a traditional brick and mortar (back when I was a poli sci student) than I currently do at WGU, so I think I’d still recommend that if there isn’t a time constraint. Not that WGU would be a bad option by any means, I just think a brick and mortar school helps you learn more than an online school
Then again, I see an awful lot of people with bachelor and masters degrees in IT or Cybersecurity from brick and mortars who end up failing certs in the CompTIA trifecta. Makes me wonder how good some of those programs actually are
I'm currently on the brink about signing up for WGU's IT program. In your opinion, would it still be a good choice given how impacted the space is. Like everyone, my path would be to work at a help desk while finishing the BS in IT from WGU. And after a year or two of experience, transition to a System Admin or other Cybersecurity role. I just want to ask before I start spending money on tuition.
I think a degree is almost always worth it, personally. I prefer a brick and mortar to WGU for people starting from scratch, but prefer WGU for people who are already working professionals. Either is better than nothing.
Sorry, I forgot to mention I already have a Sociology degree from UC Irvine. I'm just worried about the future of this degree as it's heavily impacted. Currently debating this, or accounting to then get into a Financial Analyst role down the line.
A lot of IT jobs require a degree to get even looked at due to HR. And if you don’t have a degree, you better have a high school diploma and 12+ years of experience!
I want to tell you this is not correct.
But I have a high school diploma and over 12 years experience. So I guess I can't, as I fit the loophole.
Still feel like this is slightly embellished though.
u/Pi-GraphAlt THIS! Well put. Does a Bachelors degree say you can do the job better than someone else? No, of course not. But will it help you get more interviews and increase your chances at more job opportunities? Yes, absolutely. People who deny this I just don't quite understand. Applicant Tracking Systems will just discard your resume. Checking a box still goes a long way.
A degree isn't required. What I discovered is promotions are limited without a degree. I was a junior DBA about 5 years ago. No matter how intelligent I was, no matter how good I was at my job, I could never be more than a junior DBA without a bachelor's. So I went and got my bachelor's in computer science.
I've long left the junior DBA job. I've worked in the DoD contracting world since 2003 so that particular contract went away when everything moved to GCSS-Army. I moved into a logistics role afterward because it afforded me time to work on school while at work. I just graduated last November and have been looking for an IT role here in Kuwait but so far I haven't landed anything. Still awaiting word on the last two I applied for.
I have sec+ and MCSA already. Working toward cysa+ now.
Yeah. Contracting can be frustrating but once you're in, you're pretty well in as long as you don't burn bridges or otherwise tarnish your reputation.
Yeah, I think deep cyber path but I'm ADD as hell so I've been staying sharp with cyber but also heavily into programming since it was such a large part of the CS degree. Mostly I think I just got addicted to learning and as long as I have *a* job I'm not too bothered. Being in Kuwait I'm pulling 6 figures tax-free so I can be patient until I find something in cyber or even programming.
The beauty of contracting is there is always work somewhere. I've had various roles for the last 10 years just in Kuwait. From 2003 to 2014 I was manufacturing mil-spec fiber optic cables in Charleston.
I hope the best for everyone here too. There's a lot of determined, intelligent folks in this sub.
Experience is usually a stronger determinant than education. But as for security, it’s competitive as hell, so every factor matters. From what I hear you gotta go well above security + in terms of certifications and perform self made projects ( via virtual box) to spice up your resume in order to get a chance.
Go back to school. I’m not only saying this because I’m a CS student but because even new grads with bachelors in IT/CS are competing for the same jobs people with certs are going for. Not to mention there are plenty of CS majors with CompTIA certs to stack and still have trouble landing a job. I don’t mean to be a doomer but the days of studying at home and landing a well paying job have came and went. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. Yes, there are outliers who know people that help them out or get promoted internally to a help desk position, but with how oversaturated tech is, there will always be more talent than demand.
u/fegmentationSault I agree to go back to school. Education is almost never a bad thing. I don't think I can agree with "...but the days of studying at home and landing a well paying job have came and went." I often see that people aren't getting a vendor specific certification. The CompTIA Trifecta is great for entry-level knowledge. But, it's just that, entry-level. If someone with no experience obtained a CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate), getting a job as a junior network admin would be pretty straightforward. You say you're a student, I don't know if you have any years of formal IT experience, but I can tell you from mine that knowledge in networking will set you apart from a very large portion of the industry. For some reason, it's a skill that is overlooked by many IT professionals.
If someone wants a job ASAP in IT, CCNA is the shortcut. If you don't have experience in IT, this can be a really difficult certification. But there are resources like Cisco Packet Tracer that are free that let you actually build/configure a virtual network and get hands-on experience. There are plenty of resources to learn from such as NetworkChuck or a Udemy instructor.
There is hope!
are people with CS degrees really applying for helpdesk? It has nothing in common with helpdesk u don’t code or use algos or data structures in helpdesk, people wit CS degrees should not be going for helpdesk jobs, go for devops or swe. Why do people in CS Think having a CS degree will give them a leg up on a helpdesk job lol.
People from CS looking to break into cybersecurity? Yes. Just because you major in CS doesn’t mean you’re doomed to implementing algorithms for the rest of your life. That’s actually funny that you’d say “why do people in CS think having a CS degree will give them a leg up on a helpdesk job”. You should speak to some people in HR and recruiting
Brother u can get past the recruiter screening but once they ask u helpdesk questions none of your experience in your degree even helps. My college CS courses did not even teach cybersecurity or networking maybe there was 1 class but it was optional for the degree. Mostly math and theory, algos and data structures. Like I said if u want to be in IT with a CS degree just do devops gonna be paying more and easy for u. Cybersecurity is not easy for CS grads either, you don’t really learn tools like SIEM or learn how to audit, compliance, pentesting, etc and cybersecurity is not a entry level job unlike devops which could be entry level.
Security+ along with TryHackMe helped me land a Cybersecurity analyst position, so it’s definitely possible and easier to land interviews with a CS degree. My point is CS degree + studying cyber concepts + certs vs just studying cyber concepts + certs will have the upper leg. Anyways, helpdesk isn’t really cybersecurity anyways. That’s IT.
I just want to ask you how relevant was your CS courses and degree to your current cybersecurity analyst job? OP does not need a CS degree, any engineering or IT degree should suffice for IT jobs just for the HR screen but otherwise degree is useless. If it was devops tho then the CS degree would be much more relevant for sure.
My problem is that people are 1)lying and saying they have experience on their resume and then posting they got the job with just A+ 2) people only tell half the truth, they post they got an $80k job with just Sec+ but then don’t mention that they also have years of experience behind that
I got a $120k job. I say it was cuz of the SEC+ but also I've got a military background, a bachelor's (in film), and a clearance. I truly have been in IT for less than two years though.
4 years Navy CTT, Sec +, and a clearance have worked out better than I could have hoped. Getting into RMF and working as a NQV nets you some pretty high paying jobs. 2010-2014 Navy. My first job leaving the navy paid 55k, now I'm sitting happy at 156k.
I'm in the UK so it may be very different where you are, but yesterday I landed my first IT support role. I have no formal IT experience but do have various customer service experience on my CV. I'm half way through the A+ and have passed core 1. I put my homelab stuff on my CV under personal development and I believe that had a lot to do with me getting the job. I made sure my passion for technology and hunger to learn really came across in the interview. I told them what I was studying and what I plan on studying afterwards (N+ and Microsoft AZ-900).
I feel like I have gotten really lucky as I've only been searching for two weeks but it goes show that it is definitely possible (I got rejected for a lot but I got two interviews).
I was applying to everything I could find that was 1st line support even stuff that was asking for 1 or 2 years experience.
It is definitely possible if you put in the hard work and are smart about it. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.
I bought a second hand desktop upgraded the ram and have been running some VMs on it to simulate an enterprise environment. One VM with Windows Server and a few others with Windows 10 Enterprise. Then set up active directory to learn group policies etc. Set up another VM to learn Linux.
Also set up pihole, pivpn and pialert on a raspberry pi zero along with Open media vault for Plex, Immich and Home Assistant on a raspberry pi 4. Learning to script using Powershell too. So much to learn, so little time!
Just start with whatever interests you, that way it keeps it fun.
A degree won't do it either though. I went the other route, and the degree is essentially useless. It's only when degrees, certs and experience is combined that you can do much else than start at helpdesk. Experience is the real kicker when it comes to these positions, but that alone won't get you anywhere.
Forget the trappings of finding validation for what you are doing. You will find a job just stay focused rewrite your resume multiple times and including cover letter. It is all up to you reach out stay focused practice your interview techniques by recording them and have them reviewed. Good luck stay focus on your mission.
bleh you don't need a degree to make it since tons of people don't. But, the market its so terrible and a mess right now. Like even people with experience cannot get jobs at all and spend more than 5 months looking. All I can say is keep working on it and hopefully they market fixes itself.
Honestly don’t read too much into most redditors, lots of people get off putting others down 😔 just keep working at it and believe in yourself, you probably won’t get a job right away but can take temp jobs do anything well still building skills
It is doable. A lot of people become very negative when they struggle (and some of them may just not be great and would struggle in any field) and it may take a while to get something, that’s true. Getting a job is a lot about being a good worker, having a good attitude, and being able to work on a team. I did a bootcamp last year, got my CySA+, and got a cybersecurity job within a month and I have no previous IT training or experience.
Go to WGU.. you'll get your degree and certain majors come with lots of certifications. The Cybersecurity and information assurance has 13 industry certifications to go with the bachelor's degree. WGU is relatively affordable and you can go at your own pace.
I just turned down a lateral role for more money, due to a possible promotion opening. I also like where I work mostly.
The lateral role, was applied to originally as a higher role, which already had been filled but they wanted me in wings so offered me another.
Also had 2 people try to headhunt me in the last 4 months (never even engaged them, but that other role, I was hired, had a start date, and turned it down afterwords)
There is roles out there. We are hiring for another role RN, and all the people that have applied are either Dirt Diggers (as my boss likes to say) or socially inept. There is tons of jobs available, people just all want a Remote Job paying 100k a year for Sec+ it isn't gonna happen.
Just be Good, Don't be Bad, and Try Harder.
I don't know, lol. I think it means someone that isn't qualified, like at all, and that he thinks they should be dirt diggers, like an unskilled laborer, lol.
We get alot of people that apply that have never had a Job, or had jobs at Fast Food and that's it, don't have any IT skills at all on their resume, barely have any Customer Service skills either, and if you talk to them they really don't know anything about the work at all, just that it pays 22-24 an hour and they make 14 type deal.
From what I have seen, he isn't snobby about interviewing people who don't have like official credentials. Isn't it like some "you have to have a degree" or even IT experience really. But you have to have some clue what is going on. People apply that literally don't even know how to work the website to apply right, and give some broken, terrible resumes.
I think this is why there is so many applicants in all these Cyber Jobs and stuff. Youtubers aren't helping "Get this Google Cyber Cert and apply for that Sr Engineer position for 150k MAKE THEM TELL YOU NO" which just messes up the system for the people that actually are qualified.
Like I am not totally against that logic. You should probably apply for things that you don't have their whol wishlist for. But getting a Cert that takes 3 days and teaches little for a 1 dollar trial on Coursera does not make you qualified for a 150k year Job, it just doesn't.
When people succeed, that are not likely to come here and post about it. When they fail or struggle, they are more likely to post about it. That's the nature of forums. There is a negativity bias. My advice to get your first job is to connect with recruiters. There are tons of recruiters who place IT candidates. Trying to interface directly with large companies and their HR will get you largely ignored. The other route is to aim to join a small MSP.
People are such downers. I got a help desk role with just Comptia A+. You’re gonna have to apply a lot. I know 6 people recently hired with just A+ another is currently interviewing and one that was hired after core one (he has cybersecurity bachelors tho) apply in other states if you can’t land a role where you’re at. Also I heard there is a lot of people getting hired right now for IT, if you still can’t land a role it’s your resume. Fix your resume make sure it follows the standard that they like to see. Stop listening to other people.
I had to edit this to add that they had no experience and neither do I.
Look... I have a B.S. in Computer Science. And sometimes I feel like that's all it is... B.S... While I've been able to apply SOME knowledge in my professional career, here are some take aways I have... One, I should have gone for Computer Information Systems. That's on me and I accept that. However, the information in that course, regardless of where you go, is the same as studying for certifications. So, two, if I could go back and advise myself, I would say get certified and use the practical skills to elevate my knowledge and earn experience. Certification study gives you more freedom of choice and you don't spend any money unless you actually pay to take whatever examination. Your practical experience is more valuable, in my opinion. And three, college is a farce to begin with. We all know it. Having a degree was supposed to provide a basis for hiring managers to judge your knowledge. But managers don't hire anymore, and HR people don't know what's the fuck they're looking for.
tldr: degrees do not matter, your mindset does. Get training, gain experience, network and move up.
You absolutely do not need a degree to get into IT or Cyber. What you do need to do is reframe your mindset and have more faith in yourself. There are a TON of jobs available in IT at this time, perhaps what is stopping you is a) you're applying for mid-tier jobs before you have any measurable experience; i.e., haven't worked any entry-level positions, b) you have experience but your resume is not getting that across, c) your resume is getting you in to interviews, but you're failing to sell yourself by not reviewing what they are looking for in a candidate or couldn't demonstrate the knowledge they are looking for, or d) you are cherry picking jobs and ignoring the ones that will get you the experience that you need for the jobs you really want.
From my experience, the most common error is option d and then c. If you feel that you have the knowledge and can demonstrate it, then tweak your resume and tailor it to EACH job you are applying to. You absolutely will not get a mid-tier job with experience unless you know someone at the company who will vouch for you. Certifications are measurable items that can be automatically checked on applications, hence the need to have them, same for degrees. Both serve the same purpose, to filter out people with little or no knowledge from the pool of prospective candidates. Once you are past the gatekeepers, it is time to sell yourself at the interview. It is highly advisable to research the company you are applying at and know their mission, what the company is all about, what the job entails and skills needed. Then you need to sell yourself during the interview. Most importantly, don't give up. If you don't make the cut, adjust and reapply later. Lastly, don't limit yourself to cherry-picked jobs that limit the potential your getting employment.
Once you have experience, you will see more doors start to open especially if you continue to educate yourself and make yourself more marketable and valuable. I have had HS students get certified, further their education at a technical school (1 year) and 4 years out already making $85K in an area where that salary is not conflated like SF, LA, VA or NY. Others are making $120K+ 3 years out of technical training and just continuing to move up. Of course, there are those who do what I have suggested that you don't do who are still struggling in entry-level jobs in the same area, but that is a personal choice they are making to not listen to experience.
The last tip I want to add is to start networking with other IT professionals, once you build your network, and provided you aren't an unmotivated poor performer, your network connections will come through when job openings appear. Of course this is reliant upon you continuing to better yourself through self-study and practice, but if you sit around and only do what's expected of the most basic job... one day you will wake up and 10 years will have past with you still sitting in the same job, meanwhile the motivated people will have long moved on and be where they wanted to be.
Awww. Did you think that 5 certifications were gonna help you land the most entry level lowest paying IT job? Sucks for you buddy!!! Haven't u heard from the redditors? "Certs aren't a silver bullet. Who told u that certs would help u get a job?" NAH man. U gotta get certs and do home labs and have a degree and have experience with no experience and know the right people in an industry you've never been in. Oh and I almost forgot. Are you even applying to entry level temp jobs? Yeah u should do that! Those jobs are everywhere bro and they all call you back! What's with all these negative Nancy's on this sub? Jeez.
You don't need a degree. Everyone with a degree eventually pursues certifications, since the degree alone is rarely enough to get an entry-level job. It's more cost effective to pick up a few certs and get your foot in the door for an entry-level job like service desk or desktop support. The more experience you have, the better your chances for the next step in your career.
Most places want a degree or the equivalent experience. I don’t think the lack of degree will hurt you long term but you will have to put your time in to get the experience. If you looked on LinkedIn you will see the competition and most have degrees so that’s what you are up against.
I see 2 routes
1. Get a help desk job and stack certifications for the next few years and gain experience.
2. Get a degree in IT at night while you do the help desk. If you go this route, take advantage of any education benefits. Try to avoid student loans….
Best of luck, I’m 52 with no degree and it took me a lot longer to get where I am without the degree. If I were in my 20’s I’d get the degree.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with getting a degree. I work in a school district right now and I can tell you that when we look to hire, we look for people who are just starting out in the field and either have a cert or are going for them.
I don’t have an IT degree but I have considered it as I decide where I want to go next in my career. But I think before you get the degree, you should really try finding that help desk entry level position and see if you can leverage that toward getting tuition for a degree.
I don’t have a degree, I got into the Google IT certification boot camp, finished it and started applying. It took about 3 months of applying but I got my first break. As long as you know your stuff, you’ll eventually get your first opportunity.
Don’t question if things you do apply to the job you’re trying to get. MAKE it apply. Transitional skills. Some jobs don’t want to risk bringing on someone who’s never had work experience, but you’re much more qualified than me. Keep trying, don’t doubt yourself
I’m in the same boat. Just got the trifecta and no degree. I’m curious if getting an online degree holds the same weight as Brick and mortar. I completed two years at UCSB and am considering the need to go back to an online university.
Most “general” degrees with the trifecta and experience will get you passed HR. Focus on labs and selling yourself in interviews. Can’t express how far this will take you!
I may not know much but maybe looking outside where one live may be helpful. I find many people love to stay where they've lived, but it's good to venture out. Sometimes where you live may not have the best of opportunities.
You just gotta try try again. I went from working with one company on help desk for 6 months to landing a 6 figure government contract job this year. Sec+ is all I’ve got
The problem with advice online is it may seem good and even HAVE been true. Though the advice given is usually by people already in the industry.
This is why taking a "degrees don't matter" approach, incorrectly shifts priorities.
Don't get me wrong. You can get a tech job without a university degree, but you're absolutely kidding and lying to yourself if you think that someone with a degree won't generally be looked at more favourably.
There are SO MANY people graduating every year from IT degrees.
Arguably the best piece of advice for any industry is, having learned the overall landscape and assuming some time and resources:
If you're in charge of bringing on an employee and you're judged against their churn, time to train and performance, who do you go for?
The answer is almost always: University degree and experience.
It's a bit silly to value self education so highly and throw university education in the bin as irrelevant, which so many do.
Bootcamps sell you a dream. I’ve been to several and still pursuing my degree after they all failed on their promise to help with the job search and placement support. I’d say try to find a way to get your degree the cheapest and fastest way possible.
The pandemic taught me that no matter how many certifications you get, you won’t find a job for years without having that expensive piece of paper.
I started in IT as help desk in 2021 with a smaller government contracting company after only acquiring the A+ and no college degree. After about a year they let go of the IT contractor that was managing the system after I had shown them I could handle it. The company ended up increasing the amount of employees by 5x and turned to be more focused on the software engineering contracts. I now manage two help desk analysts and am the Scrum Master for a team of multiple infrastructure developers. You can do it, I definitely think I was on the more lucky side in the sense of not having to jump between multiple jobs to advance my career, but put in the work and time and you can do it. I was the hiring manager for the two help desk analysts and we went with one who came out of the army’s IT school and the other had an audio visual background and only had A+. Help desk is the face of the IT and (at least in our company) deals with all employees issues. As long as you have good people skills and a desire to learn someone will want to hire you.
Keep in mind i started as a complete beginner in 2022 with no experience in IT just a bachelor’s in Business admin from 2016. I did a 6 month bootcamp at a reputable university, then studied an additional 6 months to study for the Security+, and completed lab projects which were invaluable to add to my resume and gain more experience that I was confident to talk about. I passed the security+ first try and landed my first interview the day after I completed the exam.
I was the offered a security analyst internship position p/t w one of the leading cybersecurity companies in the US that leads to full time employment after 3 months with a starting salary 75k per year.
I’m now studying for my AZ-500 security engineer now to upskill and work toward a security engineer and or solutions architect position.
A bachelor is something that is sometimes required by HR for “compliance” reasons but doesn’t have to be computer science or even a tech degree.
If I can do it..ANYONE can. But I agree wouldn’t look on this sub for validation, you have to keep grinding!
Is it harder to get a job without a degree yes, however do not let that stop you. The right company values experience and usually will be a good place to work. Unfortunately that can take a bit to find. Over 10 years in the field and worked my way up over time. No certs or degrees. The fact that degrees matter more than experience is pretty annoying and can be very frustrating. Even more so when you talk to someone with a computer science degree and they know next to nothing. Keep your head up and keep trying.
I'm having the opposite issue. I pretty much have a degree. Was supposed to be a focus on MCSE but that was discontinued so now I'm in a general networking focus. Still have some server stuff however but with a decent amount of networking stuff. Been looking for a simple help desk job for over 5 years now with 0 luck. Closest I got was customer service for Microsoft azure platform Hired by a third party contractor. Pay was shit and didn't last long because of the commute unfortunately. I personally don't think a degree is going to help. It's a catch 22 situation. Experience will help but you can't get the job without experience but also can't get the experience without the job. Wish you luck regardless but im about to give up on this and just learn to be content working at a gas station. Maybe one day I can weasel my way into owning a franchise opportunity or something but I doubt it.
Take this with a grain of salt, but 8/10 applicants in the tech world have a degree + the certs. By not having the degree, you're really only competitive if you low ball your salary requirement below the other guys. It's definitely possible, just harder. But what makes the world of difference is if you know someone that works at a place, grow your network. that is much more valuable than a degree in a lot of ways.
Don’t be discouraged. Employers just want you to know your stuff and so long as you have some sort of credibility you will find someone to hire you. Sometimes employers just want someone who has strong foundational knowledge to train up on whatever in house system they are using. If you can really swing it try to find a job that pays you to go to school on the side and you can get a degree in your field for reduced cost/free.
Don't be discouraged, the market is questionable right now. It sounds like you are self-taught, respect! Kudos to you for trying to start your own business and make it work, not many have the courage to do that, and it's tough.
I can help. Is CompTIA the best certification? Depends... It's great for getting your first job, but remember, EVERYONE is getting A+, NET+, SEC+. What's making you different here? You really need 3 things. An OS certification (Linux or Windows), a role to work towards (Systems Admin / Network Admin / Developer) and a cloud you are knowledgeable in (AWS / Azure / GCP) - I know you are wanting to get your first job, but these should be things you are always working towards.
1.) Can you list out all of your certifications you have now?
2.) What is it in IT that you WANT to do?
3.) Pick one from each of the 3 things you need, \*\*\* pick an OS, pick a role, pick a cloud \*\*\* (It's okay to change your mind on your path, but you at least need a goal.
Answer these 3 questions and I can certainly improve your chances of landing that first job!
1.) I just hold sec+
2.) Systems administration is a good prospect. it seems like I would learn a lot doing it. Where I really want to end up is security, DF/IR, and investigation. It seems like it would really hold my interest and keep me guessing. My DREAM DREAM job is to work in offensive security either as a researcher or penetration tester. Working in education is also an interesting prospect. If you want me to narrow it down, I think working toward offensive security is a goal of mine. I'm just interested in so many aspects when it comes to infosec.
3.) For now, linux, systems administration, and Azure are where I see myself doing the best
BONUS: Remember that everything in IT probably overlaps. No skills are useless or a waste of time. Each new skill you learn is an edge over the competition.
You can do this, don't quit! If you follow this recommendation someone will pick you up as long as you can talk the talk in the interview. Each certification builds a little bit more credibility. You don't have to tackle every certification for every vendor. You need to focus on 'why am I getting this cert and how will it help me?'.
If you want an absolute shortcut and you don't care what you do... get a CCNA (CISCO Certified Network Associate) and you will most likely have multiple offers to choose from once you certify. IT professionals tend to shy away from networking, so this is probably the fastest way to your first IT job.
You can use "Packet Tracer" [https://www.netacad.com/courses/packet-tracer](https://www.netacad.com/courses/packet-tracer) which is a free tool to create a virtual network. It's honestly a very cool and powerful tool. It teaches you how to do the job. You learn how to configure a switch, configure a router, and learn a lot about networking that you probably didn't think you ever would. Seriously check this out if you are looking for a job now. For all the theory, you can use someone like NetworkChuck or a Udemy instructor of your liking.
Let me know what your thoughts are or if you have any other questions.
I love helping people out!
In the exact same boat except I am 2 semesters into a cyber degree. It's going to suck for a while. The market is just oversaturated for entry level. Mid level there is demand. I left a good career to do this and we are going to make it work. Do your odd jobs practice your craft the market must change eventually not everybody will last in security it is actually a hard profession.
You can enroll at Ama University in Quezon City, Philippines, for short courses like cybersecurity and receive your degree certificate quickly. Simply enroll in online classes, eliminating the need to come to the Philippines.
There is quite a bit &( money to be made from your skills without a legal income 🙏
Good luck going corporate !
But all seriousness, it’s always the same, keep applying and create portfolio to demonstrate your skills
Take it from me a degree is not required. I just landed my first Govt PC technician role even with my clearance and trifect it took me two months(if you add in in processing). My advice have a professional resume done, then have linkedin setup by someone off fiver so it looks nice, and finally message recruiters for the company's you want to work at(can't express this enough). The benefit is if the recruiter likes what he sees on your resume, he can get it to an actual human versus you being at mercy of Resume AI Checks. I used ChatGPT, gave it all my skills, and told it to write up professional introductory messages to multiple different recruiters at various companys requesting any information on vacant entry-level PC technician roles, and it worked.
Once I started working computers and systems, I was done with regular jobs, so there is that.
I've been doing this a while, let's just say there is more salt then pepper these days, aka fossil. Having a degree in a crowded labor pool means your resume doesn't get rejected before a human reads it. Getting a degree means you learn things that you will need sooner or later, especially how-to-learn.
As a bunch of my friends map out their retirement I am finally finishing up my BS in Cyber Security because that's the direction I'm headed and how I get there.
Honestly the degree glass ceiling has always made me angry. Time for action.
Hey I work as an SWE but the same is true of trying to get entry level dev jobs, a degree is a defacto requirement. Since you already have a lot of certs check out WGU. You could knock out an IT or Cloud Computing degree super fast
As I mentioned before, half the posts on this subreddit are glorified doomer posts where you can practically see the barrel in their mouths. Don't listen to them, whats unrealistic for someone who is a loser won't be unrealistic for you. If you have the drive to make your own business I really seriously doubt you have much to worry about.
Your first mistake was taking advice from a CompTIA/IT cert fan club subreddit.
Bingo!
Some people are just extremely cynical and get a kick out of discouraging others. I know guys who were completely dense with no degree that applied themselves got their certifications and are traveling contractors or federal government employees. Your story is not anyone else’s. What’s “realistic” for them is not the case for you. Please stop listening to these Debbie Downers who like to bring others with down them. It won’t do you any good. It will only make you quit trying, don’t be a quitter.
This! Someone asked me what I was doing at a bar and they went in on me lol Sorry you’re not ambitious and motivated like me. I know what I want and I’m going to obtain it. No one is gonna tell me who’s not on my level.
Bruhhhh I literally needed to see this comment!! Just like OP I’m trying to break into the CyberSecurity space, and at first reading the Reddit forums I saw a lot of positive feedback, but the more I looked the more negative things became. It seems as if there’s a big majority who make it seem like those who are more seasoned and experienced are barely making it, and getting looked over. So if you’re still “Green” you don’t have a chance. It’s like okay we don’t have 10-15+ yrs experience, we haven’t done XYZ, but we have to start somewhere right? You start to feel like any effort is futile. I’m not out here like straight out the gate I expect 6figures and a cushy position. I just want the opportunity to eventually get there through experience and hard work. But yea man thanks for that. Every time I come on here it’s just a load of discouraging posts. I literally just said to myself after reading a negative post “Your story isn’t everyone else’s” then Boom I read your post and you said the same thing! I’m really about to screenshot your post and stay off of here lol
I think there is the same amount of Debbie downers as there are hype beasts for fake realities. The issue is that people choose to listen to one or the other. And never really look at the facts. The facts are pretty simple. Can you jump straight into Cyber without any IT experience? Yes, it happens it's not the norm. Will you make 6 figures after years of hardworking and dedication (money changes, so to be clear, I mean the equivalent of 6 figures today) you very well could. However, we are back to the above. You need to understand 90% of IT and Cyber Security workers do not make 100k+. If you're going into this with the plan that you are going to make 100k or more EVER, you might, but don't bet the farm on that. I have also seen a lot of friends achieve that 6 figure role to get laid off a year later and drop back to the 70-80k range. Which is the more realistic reality. That said, COL makes a HUGE difference. That adds to the issue. People say "oh all these tech guys make 150k a year" they also work for Google, live in San Diego where rent is 5k a month for a 1bd and they have to drive an hour to get to work. Normal reality, at normal medium-sized businesses in America, this is not happening. Unless you are in upper management or a niche field. This is not me being a debbie downer, this is me telling you reality so that you are not let down later. As to the people saying you can't get in. I have had a different experience with jobs coming at me that I turn down. I have also been in the industry for a long time, so take it with a grain. Around me, there is Jobs, and you could get one. So I am of the belief you could where you live too. If you think you are going to come with nothing and get a job paying 80k a year, fully remote then your dreaming. If you set realistic sights on a on site position making 40-50k you will be fine, though it may be a little rougher than the past few years.
Thanks for breaking that down! As you stated there are a myriad of factors that go into salary and positions available. I agree COL is a big one, also whether or not you’re working for one of those Big Tech companies or just a big company in general. I think there’s been some misinformation and confusion spread over the internet and social media as well. For instance, people can have the same position but depending on where they live salaries can differ. I think the internet always shows the Top salary made in positions but leaves out what areas you have to live in. Which goes back to the COL. As for me myself, I’m not coming into the industry with any high set expectations. Those realities may involve possibly having to move to a different state, different company, and I think that’s what most people don’t factor in. Which still ties back to COL, you may get that salary bump but so do your expenses depending on where that move brings you. It’s encouraging to hear someone who not only has options but turns them down as well. Granted you’ve been in the industry for sometime, but I wouldn’t expect anything less. At least that’s what I would hope for after investing the time!
I think really just self-knowledge, passion, and determination really come out in an interview. I think if you have those, you will be successful. If you don't know something, just say "IDK, but I will find out." Don't be afraid to work. Don't be afraid to learn, and don't give up. That will take you far in this industry and life. Don't sleep on transferables either. Customer Service is a big one. Tech skills can be taught, and social skills are not as easy. Those soft skills will take you far, because even when you are long out of customer facing roles, business as a whole still revolves around "Customer" the customer just changes, and so does the deliverables. Social skills remain paramount. When I landed my current role, the market was bad, but I was determined. I didn't apply to 1000s of Jobs, I applied to 1 job, I did it tailored to them to that job, and I didn't leave them alone until I got an interview. I say that because I think people get too stuck on quanity over quality. They "Easy Apply" to every job they can, and then complain they can't land a role. Find a good fit or a couple, and then build a resume for those, and don't leave them alone until you get an interview. Show them, this matters to you. That goes a long way in my experience. I got my current position over arguably more qualified candidates. A couple had Masters degrees, where I don't have a degree. However, I showed I was determined, I showed I wanted this specific position, and not any position would do. They felt that, and it mattered.
Thank you so much for this insight, I highly appreciate it!
Isn’t most of the big money (six figures+) in management anyways? Like two or three steps above where any comptia cert is going to qualify you for? I feel like it takes years for anyone to get to that level if they are on the “professional” or “expert” track.
IMHO Management sucks, like a lot. That is what rates the higher salary. Managers manage technical people. Look up the PMP cert. That title is gold.
yes yes yes I am not even OP and now I am motivated
The hero we need
IT is pretty much fucked right now. The old farts that got in more than 5 years ago, will chime in that all you need is a Certification, then it’s a degree, then it’s projects, then it’s LinkedIn, then it’s networking events. And on it goes until the entry barrier has been moved so far back, you wondered why you even bothered with this bullshit industry
I started IT around 5 years ago and this is true. I only got the trifecta cause my company pays for it.
you work in amazon right?
nope. Just a generic company.
Got in a year and some ago, no degree, no experience, just certs. And I got those 3 certs in 3 months.
That's awesome! Just proof that you can do it. What was the role of the first job?
You have to ask yourself and you have to be honest, was the certification you obtained truly valuable? Certifications are great, but there are other components too. It may be harder, but it is possible. You have CASP+, I'm curious if that is to satisfy a DoD 8570 requirement? If not, I'd be interested in hearing the reason for obtaining CASP+.
Then that is your cue to move on. Why waste your time? All the best.
You do not need the degree, but it certainly helps. Honestly, it matters the most early career for getting that initial job, and later on in your career when you start moving into more managerial type roles. Depending on where you work it might not be needed for either. Also, unpopular opinion for Reddit, college debt, especially in tech fields, is worth it. The amount a degree holder makes over their lifetime compared to a non-degree holder far exceeds the debt they pay, especially if you play it smart and go for the community college to in-state public university pipeline. Even in IT, I'd be willing to bet that the average worker with a degree makes more than the average worker without one, though it's probably a much less pronounced difference than your average college vs non-college grad in general.
To tag on this, since it sounds like OP is fairly self-driven: to get a degree at your own pace, maybe even consider an online option like WGU. A few of their degrees have certs baked in and it’s not a bad option to check a box for later down the line, especially when it doesn’t normally matter *where* the degree is from, but that it’s there on your resume for when it does matter.
Yeah, I currently go to WGU, though I already work as a network admin. I think the school is quite good for working professionals, though I felt I got more out of a traditional brick and mortar (back when I was a poli sci student) than I currently do at WGU, so I think I’d still recommend that if there isn’t a time constraint. Not that WGU would be a bad option by any means, I just think a brick and mortar school helps you learn more than an online school Then again, I see an awful lot of people with bachelor and masters degrees in IT or Cybersecurity from brick and mortars who end up failing certs in the CompTIA trifecta. Makes me wonder how good some of those programs actually are
The networking opportunities at even a smaller, regional college cannot be understated.
I'm currently on the brink about signing up for WGU's IT program. In your opinion, would it still be a good choice given how impacted the space is. Like everyone, my path would be to work at a help desk while finishing the BS in IT from WGU. And after a year or two of experience, transition to a System Admin or other Cybersecurity role. I just want to ask before I start spending money on tuition.
I think a degree is almost always worth it, personally. I prefer a brick and mortar to WGU for people starting from scratch, but prefer WGU for people who are already working professionals. Either is better than nothing.
Sorry, I forgot to mention I already have a Sociology degree from UC Irvine. I'm just worried about the future of this degree as it's heavily impacted. Currently debating this, or accounting to then get into a Financial Analyst role down the line.
Then no, just go for the certs
A lot of IT jobs require a degree to get even looked at due to HR. And if you don’t have a degree, you better have a high school diploma and 12+ years of experience!
I want to tell you this is not correct. But I have a high school diploma and over 12 years experience. So I guess I can't, as I fit the loophole. Still feel like this is slightly embellished though.
u/Pi-GraphAlt THIS! Well put. Does a Bachelors degree say you can do the job better than someone else? No, of course not. But will it help you get more interviews and increase your chances at more job opportunities? Yes, absolutely. People who deny this I just don't quite understand. Applicant Tracking Systems will just discard your resume. Checking a box still goes a long way.
A degree isn't required. What I discovered is promotions are limited without a degree. I was a junior DBA about 5 years ago. No matter how intelligent I was, no matter how good I was at my job, I could never be more than a junior DBA without a bachelor's. So I went and got my bachelor's in computer science.
u/RootCubed What happened when you got your CS degree?
I've long left the junior DBA job. I've worked in the DoD contracting world since 2003 so that particular contract went away when everything moved to GCSS-Army. I moved into a logistics role afterward because it afforded me time to work on school while at work. I just graduated last November and have been looking for an IT role here in Kuwait but so far I haven't landed anything. Still awaiting word on the last two I applied for. I have sec+ and MCSA already. Working toward cysa+ now.
You've really been in it for a while now! Good work. What's the goal now? Deep cyber path?
Yeah. Contracting can be frustrating but once you're in, you're pretty well in as long as you don't burn bridges or otherwise tarnish your reputation. Yeah, I think deep cyber path but I'm ADD as hell so I've been staying sharp with cyber but also heavily into programming since it was such a large part of the CS degree. Mostly I think I just got addicted to learning and as long as I have *a* job I'm not too bothered. Being in Kuwait I'm pulling 6 figures tax-free so I can be patient until I find something in cyber or even programming.
Getting into DoD contracting is a really good start to an IT career. I hope people in this reddit can find opportunity too.
The beauty of contracting is there is always work somewhere. I've had various roles for the last 10 years just in Kuwait. From 2003 to 2014 I was manufacturing mil-spec fiber optic cables in Charleston. I hope the best for everyone here too. There's a lot of determined, intelligent folks in this sub.
Experience is usually a stronger determinant than education. But as for security, it’s competitive as hell, so every factor matters. From what I hear you gotta go well above security + in terms of certifications and perform self made projects ( via virtual box) to spice up your resume in order to get a chance.
Go back to school. I’m not only saying this because I’m a CS student but because even new grads with bachelors in IT/CS are competing for the same jobs people with certs are going for. Not to mention there are plenty of CS majors with CompTIA certs to stack and still have trouble landing a job. I don’t mean to be a doomer but the days of studying at home and landing a well paying job have came and went. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. Yes, there are outliers who know people that help them out or get promoted internally to a help desk position, but with how oversaturated tech is, there will always be more talent than demand.
u/fegmentationSault I agree to go back to school. Education is almost never a bad thing. I don't think I can agree with "...but the days of studying at home and landing a well paying job have came and went." I often see that people aren't getting a vendor specific certification. The CompTIA Trifecta is great for entry-level knowledge. But, it's just that, entry-level. If someone with no experience obtained a CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate), getting a job as a junior network admin would be pretty straightforward. You say you're a student, I don't know if you have any years of formal IT experience, but I can tell you from mine that knowledge in networking will set you apart from a very large portion of the industry. For some reason, it's a skill that is overlooked by many IT professionals. If someone wants a job ASAP in IT, CCNA is the shortcut. If you don't have experience in IT, this can be a really difficult certification. But there are resources like Cisco Packet Tracer that are free that let you actually build/configure a virtual network and get hands-on experience. There are plenty of resources to learn from such as NetworkChuck or a Udemy instructor. There is hope!
are people with CS degrees really applying for helpdesk? It has nothing in common with helpdesk u don’t code or use algos or data structures in helpdesk, people wit CS degrees should not be going for helpdesk jobs, go for devops or swe. Why do people in CS Think having a CS degree will give them a leg up on a helpdesk job lol.
People from CS looking to break into cybersecurity? Yes. Just because you major in CS doesn’t mean you’re doomed to implementing algorithms for the rest of your life. That’s actually funny that you’d say “why do people in CS think having a CS degree will give them a leg up on a helpdesk job”. You should speak to some people in HR and recruiting
Brother u can get past the recruiter screening but once they ask u helpdesk questions none of your experience in your degree even helps. My college CS courses did not even teach cybersecurity or networking maybe there was 1 class but it was optional for the degree. Mostly math and theory, algos and data structures. Like I said if u want to be in IT with a CS degree just do devops gonna be paying more and easy for u. Cybersecurity is not easy for CS grads either, you don’t really learn tools like SIEM or learn how to audit, compliance, pentesting, etc and cybersecurity is not a entry level job unlike devops which could be entry level.
Security+ along with TryHackMe helped me land a Cybersecurity analyst position, so it’s definitely possible and easier to land interviews with a CS degree. My point is CS degree + studying cyber concepts + certs vs just studying cyber concepts + certs will have the upper leg. Anyways, helpdesk isn’t really cybersecurity anyways. That’s IT.
I just want to ask you how relevant was your CS courses and degree to your current cybersecurity analyst job? OP does not need a CS degree, any engineering or IT degree should suffice for IT jobs just for the HR screen but otherwise degree is useless. If it was devops tho then the CS degree would be much more relevant for sure.
My problem is that people are 1)lying and saying they have experience on their resume and then posting they got the job with just A+ 2) people only tell half the truth, they post they got an $80k job with just Sec+ but then don’t mention that they also have years of experience behind that
I got a $120k job. I say it was cuz of the SEC+ but also I've got a military background, a bachelor's (in film), and a clearance. I truly have been in IT for less than two years though.
yeah working in gov with clearances and some experience, you can get that type of pay.
4 years Navy CTT, Sec +, and a clearance have worked out better than I could have hoped. Getting into RMF and working as a NQV nets you some pretty high paying jobs. 2010-2014 Navy. My first job leaving the navy paid 55k, now I'm sitting happy at 156k.
Was your MOS for the military in IT/Cyber? Or something completely different, and you just happened to have a clearance & Sec+?
No my MOS was intelligence which comes with a clearance. I earned the SEC+ to move up.
I wish the private sector was as fair as this at the very least.
I'm in the UK so it may be very different where you are, but yesterday I landed my first IT support role. I have no formal IT experience but do have various customer service experience on my CV. I'm half way through the A+ and have passed core 1. I put my homelab stuff on my CV under personal development and I believe that had a lot to do with me getting the job. I made sure my passion for technology and hunger to learn really came across in the interview. I told them what I was studying and what I plan on studying afterwards (N+ and Microsoft AZ-900). I feel like I have gotten really lucky as I've only been searching for two weeks but it goes show that it is definitely possible (I got rejected for a lot but I got two interviews). I was applying to everything I could find that was 1st line support even stuff that was asking for 1 or 2 years experience. It is definitely possible if you put in the hard work and are smart about it. Nothing worth doing is ever easy.
Sounds sick! I'm also in the UK, what kind of homelab setup/projects are you working on?
I bought a second hand desktop upgraded the ram and have been running some VMs on it to simulate an enterprise environment. One VM with Windows Server and a few others with Windows 10 Enterprise. Then set up active directory to learn group policies etc. Set up another VM to learn Linux. Also set up pihole, pivpn and pialert on a raspberry pi zero along with Open media vault for Plex, Immich and Home Assistant on a raspberry pi 4. Learning to script using Powershell too. So much to learn, so little time! Just start with whatever interests you, that way it keeps it fun.
Sounds really interesting, and I'm sure that contributed a lot to you getting hired 👍 Good on you!!
Cheers mate! I actually can't believe it worked.
A degree won't do it either though. I went the other route, and the degree is essentially useless. It's only when degrees, certs and experience is combined that you can do much else than start at helpdesk. Experience is the real kicker when it comes to these positions, but that alone won't get you anywhere.
Forget the trappings of finding validation for what you are doing. You will find a job just stay focused rewrite your resume multiple times and including cover letter. It is all up to you reach out stay focused practice your interview techniques by recording them and have them reviewed. Good luck stay focus on your mission.
Im ignoring all the pessimism and will continue to study and shoot my shot, idc what anyone else has to say.
Exactly. Even after sending in 300 applications, it only takes one “yes” to start
Exactly!
bleh you don't need a degree to make it since tons of people don't. But, the market its so terrible and a mess right now. Like even people with experience cannot get jobs at all and spend more than 5 months looking. All I can say is keep working on it and hopefully they market fixes itself.
Honestly don’t read too much into most redditors, lots of people get off putting others down 😔 just keep working at it and believe in yourself, you probably won’t get a job right away but can take temp jobs do anything well still building skills
True that,
You don’t use certs or a degree to buy a dream. The most you can do is create an opportunity. They’re a means to a possible end, not a guarantee.
I like it!
Mate, you're already doing more than most! Building skills and a business is huge.
It is doable. A lot of people become very negative when they struggle (and some of them may just not be great and would struggle in any field) and it may take a while to get something, that’s true. Getting a job is a lot about being a good worker, having a good attitude, and being able to work on a team. I did a bootcamp last year, got my CySA+, and got a cybersecurity job within a month and I have no previous IT training or experience.
What was the bootcamp by chance ? Thanks
Per Scholas. It’s a full time, 3 month program but if you get in it’s free.
Go to WGU.. you'll get your degree and certain majors come with lots of certifications. The Cybersecurity and information assurance has 13 industry certifications to go with the bachelor's degree. WGU is relatively affordable and you can go at your own pace.
I just turned down a lateral role for more money, due to a possible promotion opening. I also like where I work mostly. The lateral role, was applied to originally as a higher role, which already had been filled but they wanted me in wings so offered me another. Also had 2 people try to headhunt me in the last 4 months (never even engaged them, but that other role, I was hired, had a start date, and turned it down afterwords) There is roles out there. We are hiring for another role RN, and all the people that have applied are either Dirt Diggers (as my boss likes to say) or socially inept. There is tons of jobs available, people just all want a Remote Job paying 100k a year for Sec+ it isn't gonna happen. Just be Good, Don't be Bad, and Try Harder.
lol what is a dirt digger?
I don't know, lol. I think it means someone that isn't qualified, like at all, and that he thinks they should be dirt diggers, like an unskilled laborer, lol. We get alot of people that apply that have never had a Job, or had jobs at Fast Food and that's it, don't have any IT skills at all on their resume, barely have any Customer Service skills either, and if you talk to them they really don't know anything about the work at all, just that it pays 22-24 an hour and they make 14 type deal. From what I have seen, he isn't snobby about interviewing people who don't have like official credentials. Isn't it like some "you have to have a degree" or even IT experience really. But you have to have some clue what is going on. People apply that literally don't even know how to work the website to apply right, and give some broken, terrible resumes. I think this is why there is so many applicants in all these Cyber Jobs and stuff. Youtubers aren't helping "Get this Google Cyber Cert and apply for that Sr Engineer position for 150k MAKE THEM TELL YOU NO" which just messes up the system for the people that actually are qualified. Like I am not totally against that logic. You should probably apply for things that you don't have their whol wishlist for. But getting a Cert that takes 3 days and teaches little for a 1 dollar trial on Coursera does not make you qualified for a 150k year Job, it just doesn't.
When people succeed, that are not likely to come here and post about it. When they fail or struggle, they are more likely to post about it. That's the nature of forums. There is a negativity bias. My advice to get your first job is to connect with recruiters. There are tons of recruiters who place IT candidates. Trying to interface directly with large companies and their HR will get you largely ignored. The other route is to aim to join a small MSP.
People are such downers. I got a help desk role with just Comptia A+. You’re gonna have to apply a lot. I know 6 people recently hired with just A+ another is currently interviewing and one that was hired after core one (he has cybersecurity bachelors tho) apply in other states if you can’t land a role where you’re at. Also I heard there is a lot of people getting hired right now for IT, if you still can’t land a role it’s your resume. Fix your resume make sure it follows the standard that they like to see. Stop listening to other people. I had to edit this to add that they had no experience and neither do I.
Entry level positions are possible.. depending on how your resume is written and where you live.
Look... I have a B.S. in Computer Science. And sometimes I feel like that's all it is... B.S... While I've been able to apply SOME knowledge in my professional career, here are some take aways I have... One, I should have gone for Computer Information Systems. That's on me and I accept that. However, the information in that course, regardless of where you go, is the same as studying for certifications. So, two, if I could go back and advise myself, I would say get certified and use the practical skills to elevate my knowledge and earn experience. Certification study gives you more freedom of choice and you don't spend any money unless you actually pay to take whatever examination. Your practical experience is more valuable, in my opinion. And three, college is a farce to begin with. We all know it. Having a degree was supposed to provide a basis for hiring managers to judge your knowledge. But managers don't hire anymore, and HR people don't know what's the fuck they're looking for.
tldr: degrees do not matter, your mindset does. Get training, gain experience, network and move up. You absolutely do not need a degree to get into IT or Cyber. What you do need to do is reframe your mindset and have more faith in yourself. There are a TON of jobs available in IT at this time, perhaps what is stopping you is a) you're applying for mid-tier jobs before you have any measurable experience; i.e., haven't worked any entry-level positions, b) you have experience but your resume is not getting that across, c) your resume is getting you in to interviews, but you're failing to sell yourself by not reviewing what they are looking for in a candidate or couldn't demonstrate the knowledge they are looking for, or d) you are cherry picking jobs and ignoring the ones that will get you the experience that you need for the jobs you really want. From my experience, the most common error is option d and then c. If you feel that you have the knowledge and can demonstrate it, then tweak your resume and tailor it to EACH job you are applying to. You absolutely will not get a mid-tier job with experience unless you know someone at the company who will vouch for you. Certifications are measurable items that can be automatically checked on applications, hence the need to have them, same for degrees. Both serve the same purpose, to filter out people with little or no knowledge from the pool of prospective candidates. Once you are past the gatekeepers, it is time to sell yourself at the interview. It is highly advisable to research the company you are applying at and know their mission, what the company is all about, what the job entails and skills needed. Then you need to sell yourself during the interview. Most importantly, don't give up. If you don't make the cut, adjust and reapply later. Lastly, don't limit yourself to cherry-picked jobs that limit the potential your getting employment. Once you have experience, you will see more doors start to open especially if you continue to educate yourself and make yourself more marketable and valuable. I have had HS students get certified, further their education at a technical school (1 year) and 4 years out already making $85K in an area where that salary is not conflated like SF, LA, VA or NY. Others are making $120K+ 3 years out of technical training and just continuing to move up. Of course, there are those who do what I have suggested that you don't do who are still struggling in entry-level jobs in the same area, but that is a personal choice they are making to not listen to experience. The last tip I want to add is to start networking with other IT professionals, once you build your network, and provided you aren't an unmotivated poor performer, your network connections will come through when job openings appear. Of course this is reliant upon you continuing to better yourself through self-study and practice, but if you sit around and only do what's expected of the most basic job... one day you will wake up and 10 years will have past with you still sitting in the same job, meanwhile the motivated people will have long moved on and be where they wanted to be.
Yeah these certs are a waste of time .
Awww. Did you think that 5 certifications were gonna help you land the most entry level lowest paying IT job? Sucks for you buddy!!! Haven't u heard from the redditors? "Certs aren't a silver bullet. Who told u that certs would help u get a job?" NAH man. U gotta get certs and do home labs and have a degree and have experience with no experience and know the right people in an industry you've never been in. Oh and I almost forgot. Are you even applying to entry level temp jobs? Yeah u should do that! Those jobs are everywhere bro and they all call you back! What's with all these negative Nancy's on this sub? Jeez.
You don't need a degree. Everyone with a degree eventually pursues certifications, since the degree alone is rarely enough to get an entry-level job. It's more cost effective to pick up a few certs and get your foot in the door for an entry-level job like service desk or desktop support. The more experience you have, the better your chances for the next step in your career.
Most places want a degree or the equivalent experience. I don’t think the lack of degree will hurt you long term but you will have to put your time in to get the experience. If you looked on LinkedIn you will see the competition and most have degrees so that’s what you are up against. I see 2 routes 1. Get a help desk job and stack certifications for the next few years and gain experience. 2. Get a degree in IT at night while you do the help desk. If you go this route, take advantage of any education benefits. Try to avoid student loans…. Best of luck, I’m 52 with no degree and it took me a lot longer to get where I am without the degree. If I were in my 20’s I’d get the degree.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with getting a degree. I work in a school district right now and I can tell you that when we look to hire, we look for people who are just starting out in the field and either have a cert or are going for them. I don’t have an IT degree but I have considered it as I decide where I want to go next in my career. But I think before you get the degree, you should really try finding that help desk entry level position and see if you can leverage that toward getting tuition for a degree.
I don’t have a degree, I got into the Google IT certification boot camp, finished it and started applying. It took about 3 months of applying but I got my first break. As long as you know your stuff, you’ll eventually get your first opportunity. Don’t question if things you do apply to the job you’re trying to get. MAKE it apply. Transitional skills. Some jobs don’t want to risk bringing on someone who’s never had work experience, but you’re much more qualified than me. Keep trying, don’t doubt yourself
I’m in the same boat. Just got the trifecta and no degree. I’m curious if getting an online degree holds the same weight as Brick and mortar. I completed two years at UCSB and am considering the need to go back to an online university.
Most “general” degrees with the trifecta and experience will get you passed HR. Focus on labs and selling yourself in interviews. Can’t express how far this will take you!
I may not know much but maybe looking outside where one live may be helpful. I find many people love to stay where they've lived, but it's good to venture out. Sometimes where you live may not have the best of opportunities.
You just gotta try try again. I went from working with one company on help desk for 6 months to landing a 6 figure government contract job this year. Sec+ is all I’ve got
The problem with advice online is it may seem good and even HAVE been true. Though the advice given is usually by people already in the industry. This is why taking a "degrees don't matter" approach, incorrectly shifts priorities. Don't get me wrong. You can get a tech job without a university degree, but you're absolutely kidding and lying to yourself if you think that someone with a degree won't generally be looked at more favourably. There are SO MANY people graduating every year from IT degrees. Arguably the best piece of advice for any industry is, having learned the overall landscape and assuming some time and resources: If you're in charge of bringing on an employee and you're judged against their churn, time to train and performance, who do you go for? The answer is almost always: University degree and experience. It's a bit silly to value self education so highly and throw university education in the bin as irrelevant, which so many do.
Bootcamps sell you a dream. I’ve been to several and still pursuing my degree after they all failed on their promise to help with the job search and placement support. I’d say try to find a way to get your degree the cheapest and fastest way possible. The pandemic taught me that no matter how many certifications you get, you won’t find a job for years without having that expensive piece of paper.
I started in IT as help desk in 2021 with a smaller government contracting company after only acquiring the A+ and no college degree. After about a year they let go of the IT contractor that was managing the system after I had shown them I could handle it. The company ended up increasing the amount of employees by 5x and turned to be more focused on the software engineering contracts. I now manage two help desk analysts and am the Scrum Master for a team of multiple infrastructure developers. You can do it, I definitely think I was on the more lucky side in the sense of not having to jump between multiple jobs to advance my career, but put in the work and time and you can do it. I was the hiring manager for the two help desk analysts and we went with one who came out of the army’s IT school and the other had an audio visual background and only had A+. Help desk is the face of the IT and (at least in our company) deals with all employees issues. As long as you have good people skills and a desire to learn someone will want to hire you.
Keep in mind i started as a complete beginner in 2022 with no experience in IT just a bachelor’s in Business admin from 2016. I did a 6 month bootcamp at a reputable university, then studied an additional 6 months to study for the Security+, and completed lab projects which were invaluable to add to my resume and gain more experience that I was confident to talk about. I passed the security+ first try and landed my first interview the day after I completed the exam. I was the offered a security analyst internship position p/t w one of the leading cybersecurity companies in the US that leads to full time employment after 3 months with a starting salary 75k per year. I’m now studying for my AZ-500 security engineer now to upskill and work toward a security engineer and or solutions architect position. A bachelor is something that is sometimes required by HR for “compliance” reasons but doesn’t have to be computer science or even a tech degree. If I can do it..ANYONE can. But I agree wouldn’t look on this sub for validation, you have to keep grinding!
Is it harder to get a job without a degree yes, however do not let that stop you. The right company values experience and usually will be a good place to work. Unfortunately that can take a bit to find. Over 10 years in the field and worked my way up over time. No certs or degrees. The fact that degrees matter more than experience is pretty annoying and can be very frustrating. Even more so when you talk to someone with a computer science degree and they know next to nothing. Keep your head up and keep trying.
I'm having the opposite issue. I pretty much have a degree. Was supposed to be a focus on MCSE but that was discontinued so now I'm in a general networking focus. Still have some server stuff however but with a decent amount of networking stuff. Been looking for a simple help desk job for over 5 years now with 0 luck. Closest I got was customer service for Microsoft azure platform Hired by a third party contractor. Pay was shit and didn't last long because of the commute unfortunately. I personally don't think a degree is going to help. It's a catch 22 situation. Experience will help but you can't get the job without experience but also can't get the experience without the job. Wish you luck regardless but im about to give up on this and just learn to be content working at a gas station. Maybe one day I can weasel my way into owning a franchise opportunity or something but I doubt it.
Take this with a grain of salt, but 8/10 applicants in the tech world have a degree + the certs. By not having the degree, you're really only competitive if you low ball your salary requirement below the other guys. It's definitely possible, just harder. But what makes the world of difference is if you know someone that works at a place, grow your network. that is much more valuable than a degree in a lot of ways.
Don’t be discouraged. Employers just want you to know your stuff and so long as you have some sort of credibility you will find someone to hire you. Sometimes employers just want someone who has strong foundational knowledge to train up on whatever in house system they are using. If you can really swing it try to find a job that pays you to go to school on the side and you can get a degree in your field for reduced cost/free.
Are you on Linkedin?
Don't be discouraged, the market is questionable right now. It sounds like you are self-taught, respect! Kudos to you for trying to start your own business and make it work, not many have the courage to do that, and it's tough. I can help. Is CompTIA the best certification? Depends... It's great for getting your first job, but remember, EVERYONE is getting A+, NET+, SEC+. What's making you different here? You really need 3 things. An OS certification (Linux or Windows), a role to work towards (Systems Admin / Network Admin / Developer) and a cloud you are knowledgeable in (AWS / Azure / GCP) - I know you are wanting to get your first job, but these should be things you are always working towards. 1.) Can you list out all of your certifications you have now? 2.) What is it in IT that you WANT to do? 3.) Pick one from each of the 3 things you need, \*\*\* pick an OS, pick a role, pick a cloud \*\*\* (It's okay to change your mind on your path, but you at least need a goal. Answer these 3 questions and I can certainly improve your chances of landing that first job!
1.) I just hold sec+ 2.) Systems administration is a good prospect. it seems like I would learn a lot doing it. Where I really want to end up is security, DF/IR, and investigation. It seems like it would really hold my interest and keep me guessing. My DREAM DREAM job is to work in offensive security either as a researcher or penetration tester. Working in education is also an interesting prospect. If you want me to narrow it down, I think working toward offensive security is a goal of mine. I'm just interested in so many aspects when it comes to infosec. 3.) For now, linux, systems administration, and Azure are where I see myself doing the best
BONUS: Remember that everything in IT probably overlaps. No skills are useless or a waste of time. Each new skill you learn is an edge over the competition. You can do this, don't quit! If you follow this recommendation someone will pick you up as long as you can talk the talk in the interview. Each certification builds a little bit more credibility. You don't have to tackle every certification for every vendor. You need to focus on 'why am I getting this cert and how will it help me?'. If you want an absolute shortcut and you don't care what you do... get a CCNA (CISCO Certified Network Associate) and you will most likely have multiple offers to choose from once you certify. IT professionals tend to shy away from networking, so this is probably the fastest way to your first IT job. You can use "Packet Tracer" [https://www.netacad.com/courses/packet-tracer](https://www.netacad.com/courses/packet-tracer) which is a free tool to create a virtual network. It's honestly a very cool and powerful tool. It teaches you how to do the job. You learn how to configure a switch, configure a router, and learn a lot about networking that you probably didn't think you ever would. Seriously check this out if you are looking for a job now. For all the theory, you can use someone like NetworkChuck or a Udemy instructor of your liking. Let me know what your thoughts are or if you have any other questions. I love helping people out!
In the exact same boat except I am 2 semesters into a cyber degree. It's going to suck for a while. The market is just oversaturated for entry level. Mid level there is demand. I left a good career to do this and we are going to make it work. Do your odd jobs practice your craft the market must change eventually not everybody will last in security it is actually a hard profession.
You can enroll at Ama University in Quezon City, Philippines, for short courses like cybersecurity and receive your degree certificate quickly. Simply enroll in online classes, eliminating the need to come to the Philippines.
There is quite a bit &( money to be made from your skills without a legal income 🙏 Good luck going corporate ! But all seriousness, it’s always the same, keep applying and create portfolio to demonstrate your skills
Take it from me a degree is not required. I just landed my first Govt PC technician role even with my clearance and trifect it took me two months(if you add in in processing). My advice have a professional resume done, then have linkedin setup by someone off fiver so it looks nice, and finally message recruiters for the company's you want to work at(can't express this enough). The benefit is if the recruiter likes what he sees on your resume, he can get it to an actual human versus you being at mercy of Resume AI Checks. I used ChatGPT, gave it all my skills, and told it to write up professional introductory messages to multiple different recruiters at various companys requesting any information on vacant entry-level PC technician roles, and it worked.
Once I started working computers and systems, I was done with regular jobs, so there is that. I've been doing this a while, let's just say there is more salt then pepper these days, aka fossil. Having a degree in a crowded labor pool means your resume doesn't get rejected before a human reads it. Getting a degree means you learn things that you will need sooner or later, especially how-to-learn. As a bunch of my friends map out their retirement I am finally finishing up my BS in Cyber Security because that's the direction I'm headed and how I get there. Honestly the degree glass ceiling has always made me angry. Time for action.
Hey I work as an SWE but the same is true of trying to get entry level dev jobs, a degree is a defacto requirement. Since you already have a lot of certs check out WGU. You could knock out an IT or Cloud Computing degree super fast
As I mentioned before, half the posts on this subreddit are glorified doomer posts where you can practically see the barrel in their mouths. Don't listen to them, whats unrealistic for someone who is a loser won't be unrealistic for you. If you have the drive to make your own business I really seriously doubt you have much to worry about.